#no. immediately. shipping discourse.

[aperture-of-bullshit]

atla trending is never a good sign. do not be fooled by atla trending. do not click on the tag expecting news or even some cool art. It WILL be shipping discourse. It WILL be people rehashing the Same Exact bullshit that they have been arguing about over and over for the last almost two decades. And you give exactly as many shits today as you gave back then.

[iota-in-space]

I do think Voltron happened in a weird time period where, during the writing process there wasn’t really much queer representation in children’s media. (As well as, how much of that rep was deep and complex and focused heavily on the relationship between the m/m or f/f ships? Vs just an implication that two characters got together?) So Execs would be hesitant to make that big step to have a queer relationship, there’s a market of homophobic viewers (and straight up countries) they’d loss. It’s too risky.

Then as Voltron came out representation was getting a bit better, both in cartoons and just in society in general (rainbow capitalism and stuff, they’re profiting from us but at least they’re including us ya know.) So maybe Execs could live with a character being implied to possibly be gay in some kind of way. And there was groundwork for Shiro to be revealed as gay rep, if they ever decided to go that route. It could be a possibility.

And the fans wanted queer representation. And eventually the higher ups were ok with a male character saying to another gay man “You’re like a brother to me. I love you.” In the most gut wrenching voice that made the actual VA cry while recording. A younger generation didn’t grow up with the necessity to add subtext to queer relationships. In more recent years characters were just queer. So they’ve got no idea of the “no homo bro” trope. Why would they need to? Ironically enough the “You’re like a brother to me” line was probably meant to add deniability to the gay allegations to keep a broader audience. But the people who were the most loud about championing Queer Representation saw that and went No They Are Not Gay.

[pigfartsviatardis]

Was discussing queerbaiting recently with a friend because we’re watching Once Upon A Time (trash, but shockingly well written trash in the first 3 seasons) and obs we both ship swan queen. I mean. Come on.

But we noticed that from the start of s3 onwards, there was noticeably less shippy stuff between these two. There’s still a bit here and there because a) lesbian mums and b) chemistryyyy… but it felt like the writers were intentionally backing off from that pairing and putting genuine effort into the male love interests for both characters.

You might think that becalming the swan queen ship would have annoyed or disappointed my friend and myself, the shippers. But tbh we both agreed that it was actually nice to see a writing team see a popular queer fandom ship, go ‘oh whoops that’s not endgame’, and actively NOT bait it.

Obviously everyone here is aware of the Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, the late 2000s/early 2010s; even if you’re too young to have actually battled through it, it’s deep tumblr lore. We all know the repeat and egregious offenders from that time - destiel, merthur, johnlock, whatever the main one was on teen wolf - and how gleefully these shows would dangle queer rep in front of our twitching little noses.

Recently, I’ve noticed a more insidious trend: the Male Friendship Scarcity Myth. The most glaring recent examples are nandermo (WWDITS) and jayvik (arcane), both of which were popular ships after the first season(s) of their shows aired and were subsequently given increased screen time and shippy scenes/storylines. In the case of nandermo, the romantic feelings (at least from Guillermo) were textual. Both pairings were given ambiguous endings where they were together, but not confirmed as, yknow, together.

And then both showrunners, after the shows ended, decided to step up to the mic and give a heartfelt little speech along the lines of ‘men are allowed to be friends without it being sexual, and it’s actually really important that we show this, because we need more representation of close platonic brotherly male friendship in media’.

Anyone who was around during the aforementioned Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, or in fact anyone who consumes popular media at all, knows that this is horseshit.

It’s only ever close platonic brotherly male friendship. Or at least, 95% of the time. Everywhere you look, from major fandom shows to mcu movies, platonic male relationships are often front and centre. That’s nearly always the canon. How often does a major mlm ship actually go canon??? Hardly ever. Even destiel didn’t; cas’s feelings were confirmed last minute, but the official canon dynamic between him and dean is still brotherly bffs.

Are these friendships often the subject of intense fandom shipping? Yes, as literally any close relationship between any two characters of any gender always will be. People like shipping! But the official canon, and the gospel truth held up by poorly disguised homophobes in fandom, is nearly always strictly platonic bros.

Anyway. All this to say, I’ve been disillusioned recently seeing this myth pop up in every comments section on any jayvik-related content, that we have a lack of male friendship in media (we don’t, we have a lack of male friendship that isn’t queer coded to super turbo gay hell and back in media). I was even more disillusioned seeing the exact same rhetoric being spewed by those involved with WWDITS, which is ironically a show jam packed full of close male friendships THAT INVOLVE CASUAL SEX. The call was truly coming from inside the coffin on that one.

So, unexpectedly and somewhat depressingly, swan queen and OUAT have been a balm for the soul in the midst of all this. No queerbaiting (at least not where I’m up to), just good old fashioned straightwashing. At least it’s honest 🤷‍♀️

[yazthebookish]

Ruhn about Lidia vs Azriel about Elain

I don't even have to analyze the text, this immediately pinpoints to the issue I have with Elriel. Sexual attraction is absolutely normal but what else is there? and that's what we don't see with Az when he thinks about Elain.

It's a very simple thing that could've been mentioned, it doesn't spoil anything but the fact that we didn't is very telling. He doesn't even makes a comment about her joy or smile when he gives her the necklace. We don't get what Az thinks about Elain as a person and that's the issue a lot of readers have with this pairing.

I just found this to be a very interesting example.

[the-path-to-redemption]

Content Warnings: Suicide Baiting, Misinformation, Mention of CSEM, Incest and Pedophilia

A simple search would also show you that proship has always been about no censorship over fictional content and anti-harassment.

A simple search would also show you that dark topics portrayed in a fictional light is in no way comparable to CSEM or other abusive and exploitative contents.

It's also fucking common sense to not engage with things on the internet that makes you uncomfortable instead of bitching to a bunch of strangers that you cannot differentiate reality from fiction, you stupid fucking cunt.

A simple thing to comprehend is that you do not tell people to fucking kill themselves. I don't care what the reason is, you're a piece of fucking trash for doing so. That is a LIFE you're fucking with, someone's WELL-BEING.

The same fucking thing you're claiming proshippers are constantly jeopardizing.

And the nerve to post this in the tag that you hate. You're a miserable human being, and I hope you learn to be better before the people in your life realized what a sick fuck you are. You and the idiots like you.

Grow a fucking conscience.

[nenoname]

ended up snapping and writing another impromptu tag essay about me hating the bill redemption aus lmao

[knific]

Howdy!

[dafpork]

dafpork is like a modern day speakeasy to me because everyone comes in like it’s forbidden but since it’s the modern day it’s perfectly normal. Little secret club

LMAO YES!!! THIS IS A REALLY GOOD ANALOGY.. AND SEE IT'S SO FUNNY because i'm like I DON'T WANT IT TO BE FORBIDDEN... i'm such an accidental hypocrite in that regard because i'm like "i want more people to talk about them i want people to be loud and proud it makes me sad to hear that people might have been initially embarrassed to ship them there's so much to love :(((( anyway here's my SHITTY ART of these people i HATE i'm so EMBARRASSED thanks for putting up with me in my SHAME CORNER UGH i'm so EMBARRASSED they're so EMBARRASSING i SUCK they SUCK it all SUCKS" LOL and i do mean it in a joking manner... mostly... but i'm kind of now at the point where i'm like. Okay well you're going to have to put in some more legwork if you want people to talk about them. (but, again, just the fact that people talk about and support them enough is so great! it's so weird and wonderful to me that people are calling it on dafpork on platforms other than this one, people who may not know i exist... it's cool hearing a term you and your friend came up with in a private discord be used, it shows how much growth there HAS been since there really used to be nothing!)

a dafpork speakeasy sounds so cool though oh my god can you imagine Porky and Daffy themed cocktails...............

COME JOIN US AT THE DAFPORK SPEAKEASY. which, you are not supposed to advertise that a speakeasy is a speakeasy. but it's subversive. like Daffy. or something. this is your sign to play pig and duck with us. yes you

[ravi-is-my-beloved]

You know how we know that non of you are as outraged by Tommy's behavior in the begins eps as you pretend? How we know it's all fake outrage because he's getting in the way of your ship? Because none, and I mean none, of you were complaining about him before he got with Buck. Not one person was like "I can't believe they're showing them going out to drink with Tommy, he's a racist" or "why are they throwing him a goodbye party with cake, he's a sexist!". When Tommy first came back in season 7, before he turned out to be sticking around to actually date Buck, there was no fandom discourse about how everyone was acting too friendly with this horrible, disgusting bigot. Y'all. Didn't. Care. When. He. Wasn't. In. Your. Way.

Hate Tommy all you want, but don't use fake moral outrage about actually serious topics as an excuse. It's cheap and it's transparent as glass.

No. Fuck you.

You don't get to twist me calling y'all out as a way to turn this into being about a ship war. I don't give a fuck about Tommy anymore (as evidence by the way my "anti Tommy Kinard" posts nowadays being about y'all's insistence on dismissing his actions), I care solely about y'all calling his past racism and misogyny as just him being "kind of jerky".

This is not about a ship war, I hated him even before I became a Buddie shipper (which I started shipping Buddie a few weeks into the hiatus and that was after I started expressing my hate towards Tommy).

I'm sure there are some people who are being fake and using it solely as ammunition in this "ship war", but that's not me. And you can't say that I'm one of those people because you don't know me. I was against Tommy Kinard the moment I found out he was coming back in season 7, but you won't know that because I wasn't active in the fandom until season 7 finished airing.

To my understanding, there were people who didn't like Tommy coming back in season 7 before it was revealed that he would be dating Buck, it's just that they weren't as vocal as they are now. And why would anyone have fandom discourse over Tommy in the Begins episodes? He was clearly only meant to be there to be racist and misogynistic and was then discarded. He only truly becomes relevant in season 7, when he starts dating Buck.

But this ask isn't even what my last post was about and you say the fake moral outrage is cheap and transparent as glass, but you know what's actually transparent as glass? How you only turn this into being about a ship war because you're being called out for actually valid, serious issues.

So again, fuck you.

[ziezii]

do u ever post a fic and regretted it like right after?

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

this is a stretch if i've ever seen one lmao

alexa and liana weren't enemies and their relationship certainly wasn't abusive. they had a healthy relationship and cared for each other deeply. they had a fight but neither of them were purposefully being malicious or cruel to the other.

there's a lot more nuance here because they lived in poverty and lost their home to a fire, which is why alexa wanted to stay in the mansion. liana sensed that it was a trap and she wanted to help melody, but you could understand why alexa felt the way she did. she finally had a safe place to stay and didn't have to worry about their financial state.

unlike c//a where catra could have left the toxic environment they grew up in, if she really wanted to be with adora, but she chose not to and blamed adora for her decision.

there's no abuse in liana's and alexa's relationship, no toxicity. just a rough patch that they fix later on. neither of them were the villain, neither of them were deliberately cruel or sadistic. they were just two people who wanted different things and in the end, came to a compromise.

[doe-eyed-sammy]

why thE FUCK is chuck writing wincest vampire au IN THE MIDDLE OF S15

[johanna-swann]

Are some of the Buddie fans aware that they're creating their own feedback loop?

(Some) Fans are really excited about Buddie. So the journalists, some of them Buddie shippers themselves and keen to feed their avid readers (and get their clicks), keep asking questions about it. The actors have to answer those questions in some sort of way, even if only to say that they have a strong platonic bond and amazing friendship. That leads to headlines like "Buck & Eddie closer than ever" and stuff like that. Which gets even more fans even more excited about potential Buddie canon. Which leads journalists to ask more questions about it and write about 911 through the Buddie lense which draws more attention to the Buddie circles online which leads journalists to write more about- You get what I'm saying.

Meanwhile the actors keep talking about the FRIENDSHIP and PLATONIC bond, about Ryan Guzman and Eddie Diaz both having to figure out how not being the tough guy all the time and having a sensitive side DOESN'T mean they're gay or unmanly, about how important and beautiful it is to have that coming out scene between a bisexual man and his HETEROSEXUAL male friend.

But journalists keep phrasing headlines in ways that suggest Buddie canon is almost upon us, even though the words the actor actually said were him doubling down on Eddie being straight and struggling with his (conservative) upbringing for other reasons.

[clawsextended]

in my perfect world everyone makes so many lesbian muses the men then have to deal with the exact same behavior when every single post ever written isn’t about dick.

[dizzying-waves]

Seeing any kind of villain/problematic character discourse is making me glad No Straight Roads isn't as popular.

Becuase I don't wanna imagine DJSS, 1010/Neon J, Eve and Tatiana getting so much...THAT.

[wikiangela]

"buck and Tommy only got together after 2 episodes and had no development"

you know who else had little to no development before getting together, and we got all their development afterwards? bathena. and tarlos.

bathena met in s1 but had like 1 or 2 moments, and at the very end went on a date - I remember being surprised bc I did not see that coming based on what we got. by 2x01 they've already been dating for a while. you could argue there was no development there until after they got together and it's fine, they're one of the best ships.

tarols hooked up in 1x02. after no development. I remember being kinda meh about the fact that we didn't see any build up to that, except them sharing like one look (iirc). it was sudden and out of the blue and we got any development *after* that, which led to them actually starting to date at the end of the season. by s2 they're fully in a relationship and we also didn't see all the development there. but it's fine, they're a great couple and ship.

like jfc this is a network procedural about firefighters, the focus is not romantic relationships, Buck and Tommy have barely started dating in the middle of so much other shit happening, a shorter season that couldn't focus on then too much, and now we have the opening disaster that's taking the focus. give them time. or just be normal about people who do enjoy them. sometimes people meet and start dating without knowing each other for years, it's literally normal (and in tv not boring at all, you're just mad)

like sns but Buck is not the main character, his storylines aren't always gonna be the priority, bathena's will be. it's the bathena show first and foremost, and if you still don't get that 8 seasons in idk what to tell you.

also, it's rich that people who scream about how you can't ship them bc of how little screen time they had, were shipping certain other ship right at one character's entrance. it's fine, no one says you can't, but it's kinda hypocritical.

it's almost like it's fine to ship whatever characters you want, whether they had years of development (which. sometimes debatable.) or shared two scenes, or never even met. your ship doesn't even need to be canon for you to have fun with it, you can ship it anyway, hope this helps.

some of y'all need a refresher on what fandom and shipping are istg