#ofmd discourse

[frooogscream]

Gosh people have different taste, get over yourself 🙄clearly there are a lot of people who like Cons singing voice, no one is forcing YOU to like him. There are plenty (way more professional then Con) artists that I dislike and that are super popular…I don’t go around trying to convince everyone that they are "objectively" bad because I have such superior taste. If someone dosnt hit the right notes sure that IS objectively bad singing but like you said, that’s not the case in Cons case. If there are minor flaws in the technique (which yeah there probably are if you compare it to when he was young and professionally performing in a musical or to carrier musicians), singing can still SOUND good and after someone’s taste, a voice can still have a tonality and pitch that people like. YOU even mentioned expression under "there is so much more to singing then just being able to hold a tone", this is again more a question of taste so you’re welcome to a different opinion but you have to get over the fact that TO ME and a lot of other people Cons vocal expression is great and just makes me FEEL things. 

"Source: I’m a classically trained vocalist"- not even a vocal trainer?, your "source" is “I took singing lessons”? Everyone can do that, that says precisely nothing about your own qualification.

“If I see one more fic…” -then don’t read it! How entitled are you to think that every fanfic author in this whole entire fandom has to agree with your taste in music?!🤯 Don’t like it? Don’t👏🏻fucking👏🏻read👏🏻it👏🏻

“like do you have any idea how many people I’ve listened to who think they can sing. Or who can hold a tune, but the timbre of their voice is awful? Who think that they’re incredible? 

People who don’t deserve them win awards all the fucking time.” -wow, and you really just asked where you sound hateful?

“I’m not saying that Con doesn’t deserve this one” -except you literally just DID… it gives "I’m not racist/homophobic/sexist but[…]”, this is from the musical in question if you want to form an at least somewhat educated  opinion https://youtu.be/Owb7YA3DZ4E?si=snVovpMqzG8b7vQJ

I am however glad that in your reply you put a lot of "in my opinion"s and "personally"s, because that was the only real problem with your post, that you said that’s Con is objectively bad just because YOU don’t personally like him. You are welcome to do that but other people will genuinely like things you don’t like, not because you’re "so much more educated" about something or have "so superior taste" but just because different people like different stuff.

And that "everyone should have my opinion" tone (+the list of ways in which Con sucks and your call for fanfic writers to adhere to your specific preferences in writing) from your original post is what sounds hateful, not that you have a different opinion to a lot of Ofmd fans.

“Because people tend […] and believe that everyone should have the same opinion” - … and believe that everyone should have the same opinion… please read your original post again and realise how ironic these words sound out of your mouth, like that is EXACTLY the issue that dizzy Izzy in a tizzy and I are having with your post

Okay I’m breaking my silence. Con’s voice is not good. His rendition of La Vie en Rose is bad. And grating. And his French pronunciation sucks. Sure he can hold a tune, but there’s so much more to singing than that that he doesn’t have, or isn’t trained in. Timbre. Intonation. Expression. Resonance. Breath control. Source: I’m a classically trained vocalist.

There. I said it. If I see one more fic talking about how beautiful/gorgeous/amazing/whatever Izzy’s singing is, I’m going to throw something. Surprising is fine. Because it was surprising (and out of left field) for Izzy to sing. But beautiful, it ain’t.

[three--rings]

"Izzy is to blame for Ed going off the deep end"

"No, Stede is the one who broke his heart and made him go nuts."

I have a radical proposal which is that actually Ed is a person who just had serious pre-existing issues that were triggered by a long series of blows starting with betrayal by his former first mate and old friend (meaning two people here), surrendering to the English, giving up his identity of years, rejection by his love, mockery by his new crew, and harsh words/more rejection from his oldest friend/subordinate.

It makes sense for Izzy and Stede the CHARACTERS to feel responsible for Ed's downward spiral, but we don't have to treat what they say as fact.

We the audience have the ability to see the larger picture and say "actually, Ed was teetering on the edge of this since we first met him after a lifetime of trauma and this probably needed to be addressed before he was ever going to be stable and happy."

[amalgamatey]

My friends are doing a PowerPoint Pizza Party on Saturday, we can give up to 15min presentation on anything we want. Originally, I was gonna talk about birds, but then I was ranting about the OFMD fandom and the unexpected hatred of one of my fav characters. Now I’m gonna do a rug pull and pretend my presentation is about birds, but slam real hard into Gay Pirates and how People Take It Too Seriously (including me apparently)

[dizzy-izzy-in-a-tizzy]

a man in his underwear being "discourse" is the most touch grass thing I have ever seen

... this week, at least

In other news, the sun has set on small dick Izzy (for a time). rest well, my beloved.

[weirdly-specific-but-ok]

pt II our flag means death but I've never watched it

HELLO OFMD FANDOM! It's the Good Omens Mascot and Resident Dumbass, back again for part II. First, let's clear the air of all controversy!

Some of you lovely maggots were kind enough to warn me about certain discourse about a salad spoon and also about a certain gentleman named Izzy. I was warned not to make assumptions and not to take sides, and I hear some members had to leave the fandom for a while because it got toxic. Maggots. All the rest of you. Worry not about me. I'm here to unite the OFMD fandom! How, you ask? By being so undeniably stupid in my own opinions that you all will have to unite to disagree with me. You underestimate the power of my dumbassery. Well, let's not dilly dally and dawdle, here's the updated summary:

I have been informed there is cannibalism on this ship but it is not real. Someone pretends to eat someone and then their wife helps them fake their death while they run away from the ship though their lover wanted them to run to China.

There are BDSM lesbians, which is honestly such a slay, Pinterest has let me down by not informing me of that when I made Part I. I will no longer be using Pinterest a reliable source in future academic essays.

Mermaid Stede performs necromancy while a song called Kate Bush plays (I don't know who this is, a politician? Idk whether of US or UK).

Gravy Basket is a destination and Buttons is a sea witch and there is educational stabbing. Buttons is then a bird because of the BDSM lesbians.

There is a lady who is extremely beautiful and intimidating and powerful and she has twenty husbands and I assumed incorrectly that you were all talking about a Jack Russel terrier.

Let's start with the controversy! Izzy. Secondary protagonist or antagonist? Good or bad? Kindly father figure or homoerotically charged friend? Necessary death or not? No no no. Behold:

I present a new question, a hot take sizzling from the pan: Did Izzy really exist?

Personally, I firmly believe that no, he did not. I believe that the rum on the ship was spiked with hallucinogens.

Izzy was simply the manifestation of Ed's Freudian subconscious, taking the shape of a human being, vaguely resembling a humanoid potato Ed was forced to boil as a kid. I was a psychology student with a final grade of 99% and I accept only destructive criticism on my posts thank you. Feel free to discuss whether he boiled the potato in a fit of rage or whether he was forced to.

There are assorted Ned's, Mary's and an uncertain number of Jeff's on ship.

One of the Jeff's is an accountant, and there is a nonbinary talking sword named Jim. Actually I'm not sure if they talk.

Love you all, rooting for the show to be renewed.

REMINDERS. Be polite to each other in the reblogs, on tumblr reblogs spread posts and not likes (which don't do anything for visibility) unlike other social media sites, but MOST IMPORTANTLY.

I ACCEPT ONLY DESTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, THIS BLOG IS A GODLESS, LAWLESS LAND, AND ALL RAGE AT EACH OTHER MUST BE REDIRECTED AT ME. UNDERSTOOD? YAY.

[carrymelikeimcute]

We said goodbye to Izzy this season. What was your initial reaction to learning his fate, and how did you prepare for his death? Con O’Neill: You know what, I’ve been around a long time, and going through those first few scripts and seeing which way the arc was going, it didn’t surprise me.

This is so god-damn tragic to me.

Obligatory disclaimer that I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, or make it sound like this is the only way to interpret this.

Having just watched a big chunk of Con's filmography, this man has played so. many. tragic. queer. characters. So many tragic characters in general, but so many of them queer and...I mean we were all really hoping that Izzy wouldn't be one of them, but to think he might have been hoping that and then been wrong, and seen that bus coming? Makes me feel awful.

I agree that he got to really go out with a bang, and did an amazing job, all the awards, really great arc - but God I wish this role had bucked the long, long, trend.

[jennaimmortal]

Hey OFMD friends! There’s a few little things (and one big thing) I’d like to try to clear up based on a number of discussions I’ve seen in various places.

1. Stede understands sex & sex references. When he responds with “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” or something similar, that’s a posh people thing. They pretend they’ve never heard of sex whenever it’s brought up in public or with strangers. Just weird aristocrat things! But Stede knows. He’d definitely had plenty of (likely not very pleasant) sex with his wife, and he’d very likely had other sexual experiences as well. More importantly, though, he’s a voracious reader! The man likely had a whole stash of filthy, bawdy novels & books of poetry. There was PLENTY of it, even back then!

2. Ed & Stede’s inn is NOT on the same island as the Republic of Pirates. They’d never settle on an island currently occupied by British military. They sailed away from the Republic of Pirates & went to a totally different island.

3. Frenchie is the new Captain because he was already First Mate, so there was no reason for them to take a vote. Yes, the crew chose Olu in 1x9, but that was when they were mutinying against Izzy & there was no official First Mate in place. The crew don’t seem to have any qualms about Frenchie’s abilities (so far anyway!) It will be a lot of fun to explore that dynamic in S3.

4. Zheng’s very likely only going to be with The Revenge until she finds one of her remaining ships that weren’t in the Republic of Lirates harbor when Ricky attacked.

I’m hoping, though, that we, the audience, will get lucky enough to keep Zheng with them for a while before she does find one of her own ships. I definitely want to see some shenanigans with The Crew, Zheng, & Auntie, including at least one raid. Fingers crossed!

The one BIG thing:

There are MANY disabled characters on the show. Wee John has mobility issues & chronic pain. Lucius is an artist & scribe w an amputated finger & also has chronic back pain. Swede has scurvy. Jackie’s right hand is a prosthetic.

It’s extremely important to understand that all disabilities are relevant no matter how visible they are. There has been some very harmful discourse about disability representation surrounding Izzy’s death & it really needs to stop. A HUGE percentage of disabilities are invisible. Those of us (yep, myself included) with invisible disabilities have had to fight tooth & nail for basic recognition & acknowledgement, let alone benefits & proper medical treatment. We’re still fighting & it’s a major uphill battle!

Let’s not give more ammunition to those fighting against us by claiming that Izzy’s disability was the only important one.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk! 💞

[pastryjay]

No, OFMD did not 'promise' the viewers a safe time (only happiness, no angst or death) then 'betray' them with Izzy's death, as i've seen some complaining.

The show is called Our Flag Means Death and there is death and angst from season 1 episode 1. At no point did the showrunners promise us 'this is a show where all characters will remain safe'.

Being a comedy doesn't mean the story will be all joy and light. Comedies using upsetting topics and death is not unusual. It's actually quite common! If done well, comedy can give a contrast to angsty moments making them more heartbreaking.

The writers have a story they wanted to tell and have said since season 1 aired that there is a 3 season plan for the show. It's likely that they planned major plot points for each season (like Izzy's death) before S1 was filmed. They didn't change the plot to kill Izzy because they wanted to make the show darker or to spite fans. You are not owed a perfectly happy story when the writers have set out to tell something different.

If you're a person who can only handle stories where everyone is always happy, that's fine! Stories like that exist! It just makes no sense to watch a show with death in the title then blame the writers for 'betraying' you when death happens.

[a-map-of-gays]

I think the problem with the ofmd fandom is we just need to stop talking about Izzy now

[frooogscream]

The most ridiculous take I keep hearing is “season 2 might have flaws but you’re not allowed to criticise them because of all the show has done for the queer community”

Ok, what exactly has it done? We’ve never heard David, Taika or Rhys publicly advocate for LGBT+ rights (which of course no one has to do if they are involved in a show with queer rep, but it gets weird when your whole message is “yeah we get you, this show was made for you, we are sooo happy that we are soooo amazing at creating a space for queer people”).

Creating a show with queer characters is nice but it dosnt change anything in the real world, it might help us escape from reality for a while but it won’t make the reality we need to escape from better.

When cast members/DJ talk about it at all, its always very unspecified and unpolitical “Yeah, let’s just all treat each other with kindness” vibes.

Literally the only* cast member who openly stand up for LGBTQIA+ rights, somebody who regularly shares his support for trans people online, who on his own initiative used the opportunity on panels to talk about queer rights and what we can do to keep them (“vote the fuckers out”), who is not afraid to find very clear words to defend the queer community against arseholes is Con O’Neill… you know the ONE person who’s character David decided to kill off.

Sorry if it offends you, that I think a 57 year old queer guy, who engages with the fandom daily, publicly defends my right to exists, has played a notable amount of queer characters during his career, has probably done more for the queer community than Mr. David-I don’t know what queer baiting is- Jenkins.

————————————-

*I do realise that you can count Vico Ortiz as a queer activist, although many thinks they do that people refer to as activism are actually just them existing in public, they’re also a drag king and drag is a form of protest.  !Edit: have been informed that Vico indeed does a lot of activism in spanish that my non-spanish speaking ass just didn’t pick up on =Con O’Neill AND Vico Ortiz are the only ones

[hang-on-lil-tomato]

I wish I could say I found this, but someone else posted it, and before I could reblog it, tumblr washed it away.

all props to the OP!

[xray-vex]

i fully do not understand any of this

[three--rings]

Yeah fuckit I'm already getting death threats.

So the fact that for some reason OFMD fandom has decided that the idea that Izzy Hands is an unpleasant, rage-filled, deeply fucked up little man with internalized homophobia who did sorta fuck around and find out AND the idea that Edward Teach, the dread pirate Blackbeard has a dark side and some unfortunate violent habits cannot possibly be things that coexist.

And if you believe this, you are racist for thinking the pirate Blackbeard is capable of violence. Because actually, everything he ever did as Blackbeard, his entire persona, his success, actually that was all the doing of a white man and the indigenous man doesn't have any agency. This is the correct progressive position to take.

I honestly feel like I'm going mad sometimes reading these takes. If you think possibly Edward, the Kraken, the man who on-screen attempted murder of one of the main characters (multiple times, actually), who on-screen mutilated his longtime associate and forced him to self-cannibalize, who we have been told over and over committed acts of violence, maiming, and indirect murder...if you think this character has more darkness than the average teddy bear in him, it's racist character assassination and you're a sick Izzy stan prepare to receive our death threats.

You are all poisoned by discourse. You have outlined two extreme positions on this topic and barricaded them and laid mines between the two to explode anyone who dares to venture into the no man's land of nuanced character interpretation.

I love Edward Teach. He was My Blorbo from the moment he appeared on-screen and I identify with him and his self-protection mechanisms very strongly. And seeing large portions of the fandom insist on only a pure and sanitised version of his character absolutely SENDS ME BONKERS.

I don't write this as an Izzy stan. I think he's a fascinating character, but mostly I don't give a shit about him. I say this as an ED stan, who is tired of bland fandom versions of one of the greatest characters of the last decade.

[itswhatyougive]

Ed buried Izzy with the same level of emotion he had when throwing his leathers into the sea

[iamthemaestro]

so what are our takes on ofmd season 2? I just finished and I’m struggling to articulate how I feel about it. there were a lot of good moments but season 1 definitely felt stronger overall. like, I enjoyed it, but at the same time… what?

[pastryjay]

I know some OFMD fans have become more biased against Izzy content, Izzy fans, and Con himself due to two years of discourse, and I get it, but that is not an excuse for this. Some people have to be more careful/ respectful of the way they talk about Con O'Neill.

Context: he streamed a workshop about creative insults titled 'How To f*ck off with Con O'Neill'. This was explicitly stated to be for people 18+ only. At one point, he was seen briefly wearing only boxer shorts and a t-shirt in his own home. This was in a non-sexual context - he was just sitting down. Now, he's being called out for sexual harrassment and indecent exposure because of that.

Firstly, i'd like to say that anybody loudly offended by this 'incident' has made it clear that they didn't attend the workshop, and those who did attend are fine with it. The Venn diagram of people who wanted to attend that event and people who love Con's cheeky humour is a circle. Con knows his audience and his audience know him. You, random person who doesn't like Con much anyway, don't have to like it but it making you uncomfortable doesn't mean it is morally wrong.

It's important to note that Con O'Neill is open about being queer and proud about that. He is not shy about his sexuality or willing to censor his queerness e.g. he's not afraid to make suggestive (but not overly explicit) jokes or show his support for queer fanart. That is a good thing! It reeks of homophobia seeing him getting accused of being perverted just for existing as himself. It's not the first time either. In the past, OFMD fans have called him gross, a freak and creepy for sharing suggestive fanart to his Instagram.

It's wild to see all the focus on a cheeky, harmless moment when there are so, so many real issues in the world. Countless people are out there committing real sexual harrassment daily. Focusing on this queer man over nothing is dangerous. Accusing queer people of preying on those around them just by existing is literally right-wing rhetoric. Especially as there is a bigger push than ever from right-wing politicians to paint queer people as dangerous predators. Censorship, homophobia and puritanism is not welcome in the fandom for a show about queer joy.

Lastly, To the people mad about this: Why are you fine with anybody posting thirst traps online or people existing in swimwear in public, but you cry about 'not consenting' to seeing a queer man in boxer shorts and a shirt? Why are you upset about Con doing this, but love it when Rhys Darby posts shirtless photos to his Insta stories for fans? Why is it okay for most people to be comfortable in their sexuality/ their own body... but not Con?

I know the kind of people who need to see this probably won't take any of it on board, but it is really uncomfortable to see the way some people are talking. If many people like myself (I have been very critical of some Izzy fans and mostly avoid Izzy content) disagree with you, maybe you should re-think what you are saying.