#or like the french say Fuck Us

[rearranging-deck-chairs]

noo i do not haave attention deficit hyperactivity disorder i simply think the purposeful aiming of attention is a myth made up for i assume movies thats what people make up most things for like sex and being in love and i try to ride my galloping thoughts like im both the whipped horse and the cruel rider this is the nature of thoughts it's the human condition you simply try not to fall because if you fall your horse breaks its legs and stomps all over you until youre forced to commit a horse-human murder-suicide by shooting it in the head to relieve both its and your own suffering

[nashvillethotchicken]

Lestat's such an immigrant dad cus he will drop the most crazy insane lore on you then ask you what you want for lunch as if he didn't just say what he said. Like what do you mean you fought 8 wolves with two guns, two dogs, a horse, a mace and a sword and won???? What do you mean you have a Grammy???????? What do you mean you fucked Jesus ON THE CROSS??????????????

[hjemne]

The French are so funny because instead of having art as a general category meaning a creation with beauty, they listened to Hegel about there only being 6 distinct categories of art, but then as the world develops people kept on going 'well THIS is artistic, but it's distinct from those other kinds of creative categories' and then adding new categories. Like, my guys, there is beauty to be found in all of mankind's creations. Give up on the number system. If you can get your head around the holy trinity being one god in three forms, you can also get your head around there just being ART despite its many forms. But they won't change because their govt and society are conservative and white supremacist and adding increasingly bizarre numbers of art forms to a Eurocentric and classical model is preferable to any form of fluidity and change in the culture

[ahalliance]

qsmp francophone cubitos and their dynamic drive me wild, they all know they’re mutually lying and obscuring the truth to one another, they all know they’re keeping each other at arm’s distance, they all know they’re not as open as they once were when it was just them and the aftermath of a plane crash, but the love is still there. the worry and the concern. they pry information out of one another in supposedly subtle ways that really just convey how much they still care about each other. what’s your stance on the federation. how’s your code arm doing. even if in the end you don’t turn to me, please call out to someone. maybe looking out for yourself is looking out for others as well. i don’t know you anymore but i will protect the unknown anyway

[evafhernee]

I love love love that the ccs will be forced to use the translator in order to communicate with the new ccs joining qsmp because that’s what it’s there for!!!!! it’s a translator!!! use it to translate, even if both of you are able to speak the same language!

I don’t see enough people use the translator, especially when the ccs are both able to speak (usually) english, and it’s still great that they can speak easier if they speak the same language, but the language barrier is one of the causes for the creation of the qsmp! Let the language barrier be a barrier in the first place, and let the translator do the work it was meant to do!

Let people who physically can’t speak the same language interact! It’s part of what makes qsmp qsmp, and even though it has impacted hugely just from adding people who generally create content and talk in different languages, I do think it somewhat lacks in the people speaking different languages category, because while that is true, it is also somewhat untrue in that all of the ccs can speak one of the same language (usually english), even if they’re not a natural at it!

Now, that’s not a bad thing at all! But, it does blur the speaking different languages problem that was meant to occur in qsmp. They speak different languages! Let them speak whatever language they want and let the translator do the work! Again, that is what it is there for! It is a translator! (I’m looking at you twitter)

And even if it takes a million repeats of the same sentence for someone to finally get what another person is trying to say, a hundred fuck-ups of the translation or a thousand language barrier/cultural miscommunications, again, qsmp was made for this to happen! It was made so people who come from different backgrounds and are usually unable to interact because of cultural/language barriers can interact, whether it start out negative or positive!

And I trust them (the ccs and fans) to communicate if controversy/confusion happens culturally and language-wise, and (hopefully) for the fans to not turn anything minor** into a huge drama, so I am extremely excited to see the ccs be forced into using the translator!

[babisawyer]

Jackie realizing she’s gonna have to take care of shauna and jeff’s ghost baby

[realpontchartrain]

So the three of us just had the official talk about all moving in together when Robbie and I finally buy a house, in front of James no less lmao

[coquelicoq]

Ce n'est pas de John Jackson qu'il faut attendre grand intérêt pour Diderot, Stendhal ou même Flaubert, mais ce courant qui ne sait guère la poésie n'est pas en France aussi vaste qu'on pourrait croire, il y a souvent chez nos prosateurs, aussitôt en cela les plus musiciens, les plus grands, le besoin de réparer dans leurs propres œuvres les dégâts que la prosodie dite classique du vers régulier et de la rime à outrance a causés dans la sensibilité poétique, et de Rousseau à Proust en passant par Chateaubriand ou Nerval l'étude de quelques-uns de ces poètes de la prose est aussi la voie qu'a suivie John Jackson dans nombre de ses essais, voie proche d'une autre où il rencontre Hölderlin ou d'autres aspects du romantisme allemand.

if i may just whimper pathetically for a second. first of all this one sentence, which could very easily be made into three sentences, is 128 words long. secondly there's a comma splice (which is allowed in formal written french but definitely makes things harder to parse). thirdly it took me like ten minutes to figure out that the subject of "a causés" is "la prosodie" because i missed the "de" before "la rime" and so thought the subject of "a causés" was the plural "la prosodie et la rime", which is not the writer's fault except insofar as it is easier to miss a word when there are 128 of them. fourthly that "et de Rousseau à Proust" is really rude because, coming after a comma instead of in a new sentence, the "de" feels like it should be referring back to the last de in the main clause, which was "le besoin de", but that doesn't make any fucking sense, and you have to wait several more words to find "l'étude", which isn't even set off by a comma. fifthly the "sentences" (not pictured) directly before and after this one are not actually sentences as none of them contain a main verb, something also allowed in written french but imo really rude to do in excess. this guy is like "a sentence is EITHER five sentences in a trenchcoat OR a lone noun phrase (with subordinate clauses of course)." dude can we not just split the difference. i'm suffering here.

sixthly even after eventually managing to parse the syntax i still had no idea what he was saying because i confused réparer with repérer. that's one's definitely on me though.

[randomnameless]

Localization discourse has started to rear its head again because of some Funimation localizer defending a line from Dragon Maid but it really got me thinking, I feel like so many people are so quick on demonizing anyone who doesn't like localization changes as pro-GG when it's much more simpler. People don't hate localization changes because of the message itself but rather because it's not what the character is saying 9/10 and it comes off as calculated and cynical. I feel like it's kind of a direct consequence of transformative fandom, with the whole "I'm going to write the story the way I want it to be and fill up the spaces" but instead of a fanfic it's with the original source material.

Pro GG?

What is GG? AI?

I remember this argument of the "it's not what the character is saying" and people being pissed because they couldn't get the "right" script - and tbh, after reading some arguments here and there, localisation always comes with necessary changes/adaptation to the text, let it be grammatically or to convey ideas from a language to another, so if you want a 100% faithful script then... better start to learn the language lol

With Funimation though...

The Shinchan earlier post was telling enough of my opinion about drastic changes that aren't used to transcribe a meaning or convey an idea to a foreign audience, it's just... erasing the source material and swapping your own ideas on them.

Like, uhhh

Funimation acquired the Shin-chan US license in 2005. Funimation's dub takes many liberties with the source material and was heavily Americanized. Many sexual references, dark humor, and references to then-current popular American culture were added, including many jokes about subjects such as Jews, terrorism, and Viagra. Characters were given significantly different personalities and new, previously non-existent backstories. For instance, Shin is refused an allowance, on he basis that he could use it to buy drugs (crystal meth), his schoolmate Kazama ('Georgie Herbert Walker Prescott III' in this dub) was an absurdly hawkish ultra-conservative Republican, the unseen father of Nene (known in the dub as "Penny") was suggested to be physically abusive towards both his wife and daughter, Principal Enchou was rewritten as a half Romani, half Peruvian man with a complicated, checkered backstory that includes a stint as an accident-prone magician, The kids' teacher: Yoshinaga-sensei (known in the dub as "Miss Polly"), was rewritten as a kinky and often domineering nymphomaniac,

The earlier Vitello and Phuuz dub also edited some jokes and/or what was considered indecent exposure like shin's buttocks and tried to "occidentalise" a few references, but it wasn't like straight up changing what a character is or their personality!

No doubts funimation was "authorised" by whoever had the rights of the franchise to lolcalise and edit it as they did but it just comes out as a "why did they rewrite that stuff like they did", to make more money, to make another "mature cartoon" like Family Guy expy, idk.

And to be honest... I don't really care, because I grew up with the Vitello Dub and read some manga chapters of Shin-chan, so I know what the manga/anime (sure, the dog wasn't named lucky but shiro!) is supposed to say and/or be about.

I don't agree when you say those "lololcalisations" are a consequence of the transformative fandom in general, transformative works have existed since... forever lol (some dude wrote in the early middle ages (grégoire de Tours?) how Franks are descendans of Achilles or something to explain how kickass his king and his people are like, at this point, he's writing a self-insert OC story, right?)

But in modern times, there used to be a clear (?) divide between what was transformative work and what was canon - 50 Shades of Grey sort of started as a Twilight fanfic, but it became its own thing and no calls it a Twilight adaptation or "Twilight" anymore.

The Aeneid? Despite what devoted fans wants the world to believe, is "just" a fanfiction, aka someone writing about the characters he """loves""" no matter how OOC they are. It's a Fodlan fanfic and treated as such. Or should lol.

Still, if in a fanfic, Flayn can apologise for being born as a lizard because having lizard blood means she's automatically evil and oppresses humanity due to the fact she exists, it's only a fanfic. It's not something I like, OOC as fuck, but okay, moving on. Rhea eating ketchup is my own hc, also OOC since we don't see her eating any in the games, same thing - but fanfics are OOC by essence because they're a transformative work !

As I said, okay, moving on.

But when what is supposed to be as close as "canon", albeit translated, dips in the same "OOC" territory?

Sure, Eng!Raphael will say "I" instead of "ore" to refer to himself - and yet, imo, if professional localisers (at least the people picked by the company to bring games to an international audience!) have some sort of leeway with canon, their work is inherently transformative - since they're localising -they are still bound by some rules, unlike a fanfic author, because the aim of their work is not the same.

When you write a fanfic, you write it for yourself, to tell the story you want.

Of course it depends, like the funi shin chan dub showed, but usually, I think, when you are a professional localising something (a manga, anime, book, tv series, myth, story, anything!) you are supposed to only bring "necessary" changes to the source material to bring this source material to the "targeted audience".

And it's kind of hard to determine at what point is a "change" necessary or not - back in the 2000, "Jonouchi" had to be changed in "Joey" because, supposedly, non japanese children wouldn't be able to understand/connect/watch/idk a show with a foreign name (even here in France, we got "Petit Coeur" aka Small/Little Heart for... Piccolo in the early 90s!) - but now in the 2020s Midorima isn't dubbed "Mike".

(even if 2013 saw a localised Fates edit "Suzukaze" to "Kaze" for reasons as foggy as Fodlan's 10k years of lore)

And we of course have the notion of "targeted audience" - here in France, in the 90s, basically any "animated cartoon" was supposed to be targeted for children, like 3 to 10 years old. Which is the reason why we got lunar dubs for Hokuto no Ken and City Hunter (no "brothels", but instead, "vegetarian restaurants"!).

Yugioh was dubbed for a younger audience than, I guess, what was the targeted audience for the manga (even the original anime, regardless of the dub or not, feels like it was made for younger "children" than the ones who would read the manga!).

And this is where I wanted to come with the modern "transform the source material!" lolcalisations - are they "heavily" edited because they target a specific audience?

Like... the funimation Shinchan dub was obviously not aimed at children the manga, or even the original anime, hell even the Vitello dub, were targeting.

It's almost as if we're not talking about "bringing this definite thing to random people", but "finding/tweaking random things to definite people".

Take Fodlan's lolcalisation, especially Treehouse/Pat's.

NoA was the only regional branch to have, on the official website, something like "the Church controls Fodlan".

Through the 4 (already 4!) years of coverage, some people are still finding dub exclusive lines that portray the CoS as "BaD" or in a more negative light than the original text. Pat completely missed (or was it on purpose?) Rhea's character, so Leigh had to dub Rhage, when Supreme Leader was scrubbed off her most, uh, dubious personality traits (tfw no information campaign anymore :( or calling Rhea a Nabatean as an insult :()

Why? Why those changes? Is it because Pat/Treehouse didn't want to bring the game to the US, but wanted to bring this game to the "Dany revolution yas slay kween" crowd + the "organised religion especially catholicism BaD" crowd? Or because they thought bringing "a game" to this crowd would bring more money than to bring "Fire Emblem Three Houses" to the general US crowd? So they "reworked" FE16 to have messages that would attract this certain crowd ?

(and apparently it worked, iirc the US sales made up for 50% of FE16's sales, so it was very popular (and profitable!!))

The Pat/Treehouse changes weren't "necessary" to understand the source material, or try to find similar references (a trip to a hot spring in Shinchan was replaced with a trip to Paris, because children who might not be familiar with japan might not know what is a hot spring, or what a "trip to the hot spring" is supposed to be), so why were they made?

Is it like the Funimation dub? To reach specific people, even if the meaning and essence of the original material is lost?

In a nutshell, I don't think localisation companies (Treehouse or Funi) work in a vaccum, if they can lolcalise so much, it obviously means they got the authorisation of whoever has the rights to the original source material (maybe even the creator themselves!) to "edit" the content...

But that's what I came to regret the time where localisation, even if they had westernised names and more westernised refs, wasn't that "free", as in, Funi and Pat/Treehouse write their fanfic of Shinchan/FE16 ? Sure, why not, I mean, everyone can write a fanfic. Can I get a peak at the original source - edited as necessary because i'm not reading in the original language and I might not catch all references - please? No, because the only thing available is either something I cannot understand, or a fanfiction that takes liberties, as fanfic do, with canon.

Take Shinchan.

OG : Shin is a preschooler who has a dog named Shiro - meaning white - because his dog is white.

Vitello dub : Shin is a preschooler who has a dog named Lucky.

Funi dub : Shin wants an allowance but his parents are afraid he will buy meth and he has a dog named Lucky.

Remove the "old school" Vitello dub, and either Shin is a preschooler who named his dog "white" because the dog is white, or Shin is... a young child who receives money but lives in an area where he could buy drugs.

I can't understand the OG material, and I know the Funi one is a fanfiction, so what should I do? Treat this fanfic as canon, or, learn the language/try to understand the material by myself using dubious tools like translating apps? Or am I cursed to forever miss on Shinchan, even in the 2000s, aka an era where people can translate and localise movies from one language to another, but apparently for this one manga/anime, it's not possible unless it's lolcalised? Snowhite was turned into "Blanche-Neige" but the story is mostly the same than the one told in the US, but for Shinchan, I can only get the "Family Guy" version that isn't told in Japan?

I remember there was a controversy about localisation (when the thing that sparked that controversy wasn't even localisation related!) where some people, annoyed with the "liberties" they have with their dub version, became intense and rude and want to see localisers as "mere" translators...

And it escalated to have some localisers basically saying a game they localised is "their take" on a story - which is true, because each translation/localisation works with the bias of the translator/localiser, even if they try to be as neutral as possible, they can't completely remove themselves from their work -

Still, in FE16, Pat'n'Treehouse removed the "Supreme Leader uses propaganda" mention. Why? Is it their bias talking, they don't want her to "look bad"? But the script, the game wants the player to know she uses "information campaigns". Pat's "take" is she doesn't use it, but as a player, can't I be offered the choice to make my own take after seeing the script that mentions it, or not? Is Pat the one who directed the script, and wrote it as the "main thread" that links everything in the game (regardless of Fodlan's consistency lol), or was it Kusakihara/someone else?

If pat arbitrarly "removes" this part of the script, but I see it because I play in Japanese/Chinese/Korean/heck maybe other languages whose dub wasn't overseen by Pat, can it be said I played the same game as the players who played with the Pat dub/script?

Pat's CF!Felix calls Dimitri a monster, OG CF!Felix calls him a man -> thankfully we can count on fans to find stuff like this out but, again, why this bias against Dimitri in CF - that comes here from the lolcalisation, and not from the original text?

Why is it there? What if someone wants to play, and hopefully, understand, not Pat's "take" on their relationship in CF, but the writers/developer's? Is that someone fucked, or kindly asked to learn japanese (aka to do Pat'n'Treehouse's job?).

I don't really have The Perfect Solution (tm) anon to the general localisation discourse, at one point I was on the "just translate" fence, but when you understand a pun or a reference, and how it connects to something else, the game/book/anime/movie you're watching takes another level and it's much more enjoyable!

And yet, growing up with 4Kids and seeing shit like Treehouse butchering stuff, or hearing about Funimation Shinchan is... disheartening.

The only thing I can say is I'll always be rooting for dual audio, let it be for preferences but also to get at least what is easily understandable to everyone (I mean intonations, shocks, laughs, etc etc) and a glimpse at what the game/moving/anime is supposed to be enjoyed, especially with story heavy scripts like the FE series - while reading subs, because even the script is translated/localised, at least with the audio, it's easier to spot "lolcalisations".

And let's not forget the most important lol

The Fandom itself!

Let it be for FE, Tales or anything else, what I find fascinating (on Tumblr but even on redshit and SF once upon a time!) is how fans will be able to compare scripts, people familiar/fluent/who know a language will be able to spot the changes, and inform anyone who wants to be informed in the community that, say, Xander and Marx are pretty different characters, just like Jp!Effie and "I love to eat"!Effie.

Of course sometimes there will be misinformation (remember the Dimitri is rude because he uses the omae pronoun?), but I still find fascinating how, faced with ridiculous lolcalisations, fandom itself - aka part of the people who were supposed to be the targets of said lolcalisation - tries to "correct" and remove the unecessary edits. There are still people who dgaf about what was lolcalised from what wasn't, but even if it's just a consequence of the lolcalisation growing more and more unrestrained/unchained to the source material - it makes fandom engagment all the more precious and fascinating.

Like, you have real people basically combing the script and/or providing a translation - for free! - to help other fans, when some lolcalisers are paid to... edit and "lolcalise" the script some fans want to see.

And so, we're back to square 1 : who is the targeted audience of Funi's Shinchan or FE Treehouse?

The players/watchers?

FE Fates was, I suppose, ultimately lolcalised for a """western"" audience", aka an US one because no one gives a fuck about the rest of the world - and yet, assuming a majority of fans are from the US, said lolcalisation was mocked/ridiculed and ultimateld decried by part of that audience from who the game was lolcalised.

Some people (I've seen a redshit post about it today!) claim the lolcalised changed aren't made for the audience, but, much like a fanfiction, those changed weren't made to be more palatable to an audience, but were made for themselves - aka to push some agenda (see redshit's theory about funi pushing a "woke" agenda in their dubs and subs when it doesn't exist in the og scripts).

And to be fair, with FE16's US exclusive "Church BaD and controls the world!!!" + "Dimtri is not a man but a monster!", idk what Treehouse was trying to do, push their "organised religions BaD" agenda and "Supreme Leader is right so let's make her opponents BaD to highlight how right she is" bias? - but I can't help but wonder if it was indeed the case, and given how Pat sucked as a voice director, if the localised!version wasn't just some sort of trolley Treehouse used to convey their ideas, regardless of what the game wanted to say.

I mean, it's still fascinating, to this day, nearly 5 years after the release of the game, that we still find "Treehouse exclusive" lines, or how FEH who's still running, also has "Treehouse exclusive" lines for Fodlan characters that absolutely don't match the non global, aka, jp lines, let them be written or spoken - putting on the tinfoil hat, I wonder if Treehouse or whoever oversees the localisation isn't deadly afraid that if they don't pay extreme attention and/or rewrite anything related to Fodlan, global!players will realise that they were fed "Pat's Fire Emblem Treehouse", instead of FE16, thus takes extra care to comb and/or rewritte every line/dialogue that could make a global player think twice and note that this thing they're reading/hearing of in FEH (or even Engage!! See Dimitri's lolcalised line about people of different races living together!) is completely different from "Pat's Fire Emblem Treehouse".

Tl;Dr because I ranted and disgressed and idk where am I anymore with this post lol :

I think there's a difference between fandom's transformative works - done for fun, as a hobby! - and some lolcaliser's transformative works - they're paid for that and aren't supposed to bring a fanfiction to the audience, at least not as localisers ; so I wouldn't blame "fandom" for the fuckery that happened (Funi's shinchan is more than 17 years old!) and is sadly still happening.

On the contrary, given how fandom (at least some part of it) actively refuses to accept the lolcalised "fanfiction" - to the point of doing translation work! - I think fandom is the reason why this discourse is happening.

[hauntingblue]

Inept 8 year old boy dragon tries to save floating island is such a concept

[rearranging-deck-chairs]

sans vouloir vexer pcq jsuis un grand fan du travail que fait l'équipe de doublage français aussi mais mi piace molto il doppiago italiano, almeno di doctor who ma ho anche visto un po' di the nevers e me sembra molto naturale. le voce non veramente ricardano le voce originali però è come la totalità è più coerente? le voce non correspondono alle voce inglesi ma vanno bene insieme. nella versione francese invece ricardano più la versione originale ma richiede uno sforzo un po' più grande di convincerti che i personaggi parlano davvero questa lingua, sai?

[biblicalhorror]

Thinking about one of the loser men I dated directly post-college who, after I showed them Dirty Computer [the emotion picture] by Janelle Monae, said they "prefer rap that has something to say"

[laughinglynx]

.

[icharchivist]

French Lefties are on another level, in order to promote the new leftie alliance in order to counter the far right majority in the next elections, people have been working on promoting the alliance no matter what

..... with a visual novel/romance/dream daddy inspired dating game.

i'm losing my goddamn mind

[carcarrot]

would you all still love me if i learned french

[rat-prophetess]

wow. i guess i rly don't get it. i get most other things i can think of except martyrs

oh that is absolutely 100% fair. It’s incredibly specific, and it’s my favorite film but I’ve only ever recommended it to one (1) person irl haha.

I think the thing is that most people who watch it think that it’s just torture porn and, I mean, fair, but I think it’s a love story. Like I think the reason I latched into it so hard is that it’s about human connection even when the world contains nothing but relentless, unbearable suffering. It’s a queer(!) love story about how love doesn’t have to be reciprocated to be real, and the capacity to love someone unconditionally is something to hold onto when there’s nothing else. Even if it can’t save you or stop what’s happening around you, it’s still important.

And I think it’s an exceptionally good representation of trauma and doesn’t shy away from portraying the way certain things can fuck you up irreversibly. Which sounds fatalistic and cruel, but it’s also true, and it’s reassuring for someone to admit that.

Like, whatever that quote is about how horror is there to “disturb the comforted and comfort the disturbed” comes down to the fact that a lot of horror movies can be boiled down to “sometimes awful things can happen to people who don’t deserve them for no reason and they can’t be prevented”. And if you’re a person who’s had a pretty ok life so far, that sounds like a threat; but if you’re someone who’s gone through a lot of shit, especially at a young age, that can sound like “it wasn’t your fault, there was nothing you could have done about it, and you’re not responsible for deriving some kind of meaning from it”, you know?

(And I’m not saying that everyone who has trauma loves horror, that everyone who loves horror has trauma, or any related corollaries lol. Two of my best friends have PTSD, one of them watched Martyrs with me and the other one hates anything scary and loves cartoons and those are both 100% valid.)

Also just on a meta level, it’s weirdly reassuring to me that the writer/director was suicidal depressed (shocked pikachu face) and despite/because of that managed to create this extremely beautiful piece of art that made me feel less alone.

Anyway sorry that was more than I meant to write and less coherent bc I just woke up but thank you for coming to my ted talk!! I am actually incapable of shutting up about my special interests so please do not feel obliged to read All That