#patton sanders theory

[canon-transgender-virgil]

Patton has a brother and it's the Orange Side: A Theory

Hey, yall remember that one Sanders Sides fic I released that was like "ha ha what if Patton is related to the Orange Side?"

I think I can actually prove it.

(This is fairly long so the theory is under the cut):

First and foremost (this is what most of the theory hangs on)

THE FAMILY TREE

If you're an avid watcher of the show, you'll remember that in Why Do We Get Out of Bed in the Morning, Roman shows us a "family tree". This includes, most notably, Roman himself and Patton (which, while I'm aware that he's probably only on the tree at all because they wanted to continue the gag of "Patton is Thomas's dad", I find incredibly interesting considering that Patton isn't in the video at all - his portrait is there to show something).

For reference, here is this family tree:

As many an early theorist noticed when this video came out, Roman has a line extending off to the right of his portrait - if you weren't aware, this means that the people connected to the line are siblings.

This was later proven canon as, five videos later, who should reveal themselves but Remus (Roman's twin brother).

But notice anything interesting?

That's right: Patton has a line going off to his left, meaning he too has a sibling.

"But Calvin!" I hear you say, "What if his brother is just Janus, what if-"

Hush and let me explain.

Thomas and the team, as we’re all well aware, are generally very lenient when it comes to shipping the Sides - Thomas has stated that he views it as self-love so generally he doesn’t mind it.

However, he has stated that RemRom (romantic Roman and Remus [blarg]) makes him extremely uncomfortable because they are canonically twins.

And, in the Roleslaying With Roman livestream a few months ago, Alex and Brei stated that they wouldn’t allow people to ship Youngblood and Roman together if they knew that they were planning on them being revealed to be siblings. I imagine Thomas is in the same boat when it comes to his own characters.

Meaning that this unknown brother of Patton’s has not been introduced into the series just yet (that is to say, it’s highly highly unlikely that his brother is, say, Janus).

So, with all the other sides eliminated, who does this leave but the Orange Side?

And no, I have more proof!

As many people have theorized, Orange is likely representative of negative emotions (primarily anger, given the nature of the scenes that the color orange primarily dominated - the opening live action scene for Putting Others First, the top of the stairs in Learning New Things About Ourselves, and Logan's eyes in Working Through Intrusive Thoughts).

I think it's important to note here that just about every character in this show has expressed some form of visible anger and/or frustration before, and I'd list the most obvious examples but they are all extremely obvious (except maybe Remus, who we've only really seen get frustrated over Thomas not falling for his traps, but I digress).

There is only one main character we have never actually seen get mad or angry or any other intense wrath-filled emotion at anyone: Patton.

Which on its own is odd because, again, every other character, including C!Thomas, we have seen get mad before.

But it's even more odd when you take into consideration just how abnormal it is that the metaphysical embodiment of emotions has never been shown to be angry? Like, why? Why haven't we seen Patton... angry? Especially considering that anger is an emotion.

Not to mention that Patton tends to be one of, if not the first person in the show to actually start accepting the "Dark Sides" (first with Virgil, then with Janus). He's sympathetic towards them (or, towards Virgil at least) even before he was given a reason to.

Something else I thought was interesting (but not necessarily hard evidence towards the theory) is that Patton is the only "Light Side" to canonically have an animal trait, like the "Dark Sides" do.

Also, if one of my other Orange Side theories is right and Orange's real name is Judas, it would kind of make sense that Patton is related to him. I mean, Patton is definitely full of that ol' Catholic Guilt TM, so it would sort of track to have his brother be named after the dude who sold out Jesus (and also kind of fitting for Patton himself, now that I think about it).

So there you have it: my theory as to why Patton and the Orange Side seem so closely linked together is that they're simply siblings.

[runningonadhd]

Never forget he said this

I can’t wait for the corruption arc so we can just see Logan roast everyone

[let-roman-bite-someone]

thinking about how Virgil probably understands how Logan is feeling right now. how Logan feels like no one wants him around anymore, no one values his opinions, the other sides occassionally villanize him or act like he's the problem; and Virgil gets it. he knows exactly how it feels.

and that's why he doesn't make a big deal out of Logan jumping to conclusions about his present. it probably hurt Virgil to see Logan immediately assume that he didn't care enough to prepare a good present but in the end, all Virgil says is “and you thought I would just get you a newspaper”.

because he's been in this exact position before and in that moment, it was Logan who gave him some believable assurance that he is not unwanted, that his presence means something to the rest of them.

so when Logan jumps to a conclusion and assumes that Virgil doesn't like him all that much, Virgil doesn't take it personally. he's just returning the favor.

[i-am-bitterly-jittery]

I would like to suggest aromantic Patton

He doesn’t know what Thomas meant when he said “I just felt something for someone else that I had never felt before” in Moving On pt 2, and during the Five Years Later video, he didn’t seem very enthusiastic about Nico

I propose that while Patton deals with a lot of the feelings, he doesn’t necessarily enjoy or understand them

[virglsweb]

Plot twist: the orange side is just Aunt Patty

[talldren]

Okay, can we talk about how fantastic all the other side's little cameos in Roleslaying with Roman are??? Janus is a literal snake oil salesman. LILYPADTON. They are wonderful!!

Also extremely interesting from a theory perspective.

I mean. So far they've all been animal themed. If that keeps up, we could learn more of the light sides' symbol animals (since we really only see the dark sides', aside from the Lilypadton Redux Incident). Plus, how will Remus be incorporated into the story? Will he be just an octopus-themed side character? Or will the Sander Sides brother dynamic prevail, and he'll be Roman of Reston's long lost evil twin? If we see an orange, angry character with an intriguing name, I'll riot.

I know that Sanders Sides and RSwR are not connected. But. Thomas seems like the kind of wonderful, evil person to hide little foreshadowing tidbits amidst the Whimsy. So I'll just keep an eye out, for fun.

Also... maybe I've gone off the deep end here... but look at RSwR Janus' design:

A purple potion that doesn't look like any other one and is held far away, a red potion and green potion in the same kind of jar, two blues, one yellow, an Orange, and finally a pink one.

Is the "yellow" potion just a second orange one? From what I can see, yeah.

Does this theory imply a pink side? Yes.

Do I make any sense right now? Not at all, but I don't care.

Here, have a Lilypadton. For whimsy.

[bananaconda33-blog]

Here is my small theory contribution to the fandom. This so-called prologue to the season finale has been bothering me.

It's long so it will be under the cut ❤️

Simply put, I believe this will be Virgil's backstory. Alternatively, it could be about Logan's previous interactions with the dark sides, or Roman's interactions with his brother, but I don't think it will focus on Roman because Remus isn't as important right now. It would be a waste to heavily build his character in a video when I believe he is the least concerning character at the moment. I also don't think it's Logan because I think he will have significant focus in the finale.

I do not believe it will be about Patton or Janus due to a post mentioning "...with another character" in relation to those two. Furthermore, one of the only gaps, as Thomas put it, that would need to be bridged is Virgil revealing himself as a dark side. Since this reveal was underwhelming and most fans had already suspected it, it may have been accepted as the norm by now

To summarize, I am most confident that it will be about Virgil.

In the Instagram post above, Thomas says "we're absolutely gonna have to do some costume hunting for this next Sanders Sides... and the one after." I predict that the next video will be a Janus Q&A based on the fact he was asking for people to send in questions, and the one following will be the prologue. What do these both have in common? Janus.

A common theory I've seen floating around is that, just like the main 4, Janus and Remus also had different costumes before the upgrade. This is why Virgil makes a comment about Janus's gloves as if he's never seen those gloves before.

Could it be that the new costume Thomas is acquiring is Janus's previous one?

Alternativly, it could be for Orange but I find it strange that Thomas is just now realizing he might need a costume for him when he's been teased for so long. And I doubt he's going to be in the next video.

Jumping back to the Q&A, it also supports the idea that Janus is going to be heavily involved at some point because I find it weird that he, the liar, is the first side to do a stand-alone Q&A. This might be looking too much into it, but a video I watched about another show got me thinking- What if this Q&A is a way to train the viewer on how to know if Janus is lying? What if Janus's lies are a crucial part of this prologue(or finale) but we won't know unless we know Janus's tells.

The alternative to why this Q&A would be happening is because Thomas is recording a lot of things as him and doing that makeup isn't necessarily easy so he's just like 'why not? Let's record some other stuff while I have it on'. But that's not nearly as fun to theorize about.

[cloffmoff]

TSS SEASON FINALE MENTION!! My guess is that the ‘wild idea’ is going to center around logan or maybe janus, just because they seem to have the most going on that thomas would want to remind people of in order to ‘bridge the gap’ for the finale. HOWEVER, i realllllyyy want this video to be about patton and virgil’s relationship…i feel like their relationship has been slowly deteriorating in the background of every video since like Moving On (as many fanders have noticed), and i would love if that was brought to the forefront, if even just a little bit, because i think the arc is super interesting and deserves its time in the spotlight.

Or, i would also love a closer look into how patton sees nico, as it’s been implied patton doesn’t trust him/doesnt like him/isn’t ready to move on.

in conclusion, WE NEED MORE PATTON ANGST. YES I KNOW HE’S NOT THE MOST POPULAR BUT PLEASE THOMAS HES SO COOL IN MY HEART 😔😔

[loganslowdown4]

Ok, I have a thought on this-

Personally, I didn’t freak out over this. I think mostly because it was so natural on his face & the fact that I’ve seen so much art & fics of Pat with circular frames, I’m just used to it?

So, theory: does this mean these frames will be permanent soon?👀

Like if he’s aware that people will freak out about this and/or hopes that we will, does that imply longevity for these frames for the future?? Something to think about 😏

Now I know I’m becoming the conspiracy theorist in the fandom when I start skipping over excited and going straight to ‘DO YOU GUYS THINK HE’LL WEAR THIS IS SEASON THREEGDGAHAHABA???!’

[i-read-by-lamp]

I’d just like to once again pose the concept that Anger fucks with Logan specifically because anger blinds logic which is why his eyes glow when he gets mad at Remus after being ignored by Thomas all day. Idk if I believe that Logan Is Anger^tm but I could see a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation since generally when you’re angry logic goes Out The Window.

Tbh though I really hope they’re separate entities because we haven’t seen a different side have such total control over Logan the way Janus and Remus could control the others. Logan isn’t really affected by Janus outside of the hand over the mouth, and he isn’t afraid of Remus. Do you know how fun it would be to have a completely new side just be able to nerf Logan and make him lose his common sense? And it’s not a “oh his dark persona that shares his body” situation?

Like imagine a side that shows up and just completely knee caps Logan. Logan can’t see it but there’s a side behind him feeding into his frustrations, a whisper in his ear when the others try to confront him about it. Because the second logic loses its grip in conflict it opens the door for anger to take the wheel. Anger possesses you and overwhelms you. Maybe Logan is just particularly vulnerable to the manipulation right now because of his repressed emotions.

I just can’t see this going any other way except it all blows up and logic is no longer in the building all we have is A Very Angry Side being boosted in his anger by a side he can’t even *see*.

Even better is if everyone else can see Anger but Logan is just Mad^tm and can’t see anything.

[analoceits]

it always been a little weird to me that the twins are named roman and remus. one of the founding twins of rome.. and rome??? that isnt exactly matching.

(and ik the canon reason is just that remus wasnt being thought of when they named roman but shh. we're having fun here.)

but i think i figured it out. just.. imagine being patton. king, one of the four people you know, just.. split into two people. and its kind of your fault. and one- one scares you. one is bitey and agressive and ranty and bad. but the other- the other is almost king! maybe its not perfect but- maybe its just king with the bad parts taken out.

and so he looks at the one that doesnt scare him, and he calls him by kings name; roman. meanwhile, janus whisks away the second twin - and he already knows king is gone. the name feels fitting when he whispers it; "remus", a part of rome that defined it.

[canon-transgender-virgil]

ALRIGHT I HAVE SOME TIME SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS (also shut up i only noticed the typo when i was taking this screenshot-)

Okay, so I noticed a common theme in all the videos that orange (or Orange) is in: right after you see the color orange, you can see some form of shame or embarrassment in one of the characters.

Let me explain.

Let's take the flash card scene from Learning New Things About Ourselves.

As many people know, right when you see Logan crumple up the flashcard in his hand (like the upwards POV shot), you can see orange light coming from up the stairs. Many people (as I've pointed out, like, three times now) believe this to be the first time we see Orange show up.

Now, logically, many people take seeing the color orange show up when someone is visibly angry to mean that Orange is the representation of anger, but I think I disagree.

Look at Logan's face immediately after the flashcard hits Roman.

That's not anger. That face says a lot of things, but it doesn't say rage. It says, most notably, "I wish I hadn't done that".

AND! I can't believe I forgot about this but Logan literally says "I do regret throwing that paper at puppet Roman" in the Five Years Later episode! He says the words "I regret throwing the paper"!!

I'm going to get back to the Five Years Later video later but keep that in your mind.

I wouldn't put much thought into this if it was just a one off thing, but it's not - Logan's not even the only who exhibits this sort of behavior!

In Putting Others First, what is the first live action scene we see (that isn't the recap of course)?

That's orange. That is Thomas bathed in orange.

And again, Thomas may be angry here but this anger is mainly directed at himself for letting himself go to the wedding and not the callback!

Patton I feel is in the same boat, where he regrets or else is embarrassed by not being able to answer "Logan's" questions (for context here, Lilypadton's eyes are orange).

And then there's Working Through Intrusive Thoughts.

Logan was mad of course, but I think, once again, this is more so the regret of not putting his foot down earlier and making Thomas listen to him (hence the lashing out not thirty seconds before Thomas decides to abandon their plan).

Alright, on to a more solid bit of proof: the Five Years Later video.

There is a whole segment in this episode about C!Thomas and the other characters talking about their regrets.

Aside from the aforementioned Logan's regret of throwing the paper at Roman, there were some other notable reactions to this question:

Roman's regret of making Thomas go to the wedding in the first place (cementing my earlier point that that wasn't fully anger on Thomas's face but rather regret about the situation entirely) is a major one, but then there's Virgil's entire CVS receipt of a list (ranging from "boiled carrots" to "achieving consciousness" - mans is full of regret), to Roman's mirrored regret from Logan's about wishing he'd thrown something at Logan before Logan got the chance to throw the flashcard at him, to Janus's regret of "lack of attention to detail" (which, while unrelated to this discussion, I thought was an interesting point to make before the release of the season finale - hopefully we get to see more disguised Janus content in the finale? 👀👀 )

It's also interesting to note that in the Five Years Later video Remus is the only one who doesn't have any regrets about, you know, anything. That makes sense obviously in the context of who Remus is as a character but it also tracks that the one of the only characters who doesn't seem threatened or scared of the Orange Side has no regrets.

This is all I have for now, but if anyone would like to add on to this please do.

[runningonadhd]

Hc that because Remus sticks around no matter what (ie. that line from Forbidden fruit “I’ll still be around when all your loved ones leave”) he tends to hang around the loneliest and undesirable sides, Virgil and Janus, now just Janus and probably Logan soon

[let-roman-bite-someone]

thinking about how Logan cracking under pressure would be the final straw in Thomas's sanity. not saying that Thomas would become completely unhinged when Logan cracks. but it's gonna be pretty hard to function with faulty or unreliable logic. Logan can't duck out like Virgil did, so he's gonna be forced to continue operating as Thomas's logic under the same circumstances.

and in this situation, Thomas is going to be even more easily swayed by his emotions. we already saw what happened when Logan temporarily left the group (but was still active as Thomas's logic) in Moving On pt 2. they all went absolute batshit; Virgil was having a panic attack, Roman was encouraging Thomas to act on impulse and make irrational decisions, and Patton was also somewhat panicking, refusing to take sides or handle the situation.

it's gonna be this but ten times worse when Logan finally loses it, especially since Roman is also not in a very good position right now. Patton and Virgil aren't cooperating like they used to either, so chaos is definitely going to break out.

and I'm thinking about how all of this is going to affect Thomas's relationship with Nico. we haven't seen much of their relationship and while it looks healthy enough so far, we already know that Thomas isn't exactly ready for a committed relationship. his frustration with Nico not responding to his text in WTIT says everything.

of course, he isn't going to intentionally hurt Nico but there's a possibility that his emotional turmoil and repression is eventually going to affect their relationship badly. i don't blame Patton for being cautious about this new relationship, he might have to deal with another heartbreak again if Thomas isn't careful.

[sagesparrow394]

So I heard it’s Mother’s Day in the US, so in honour of that, here’s a very late and mildly unhinged analysis of what roles in the family the Sides claim in the 5th Anniversary video

Patton - “I’m the dad”

In the ‘traditional nuclear family’ (ew) the father is typically seen as the head of the household, the breadwinner, the one with authority. This reflects how Patton has always had a position of authority among the core sides, with Thomas often putting his say first and relying very heavily on his opinion. However, much like how the idea of the father being the head of the household is outdated and problematic, so is the position of authority Patton is put in, which we’ve already begun to see. It’s time Thomas puts less pressure on Patton. Maybe even go to the ‘other half’ of the couple…

Logan - “Why am I the mom? What gender roles are we pushing here?”

Most notably, he is the only one who does not choose his role in the family. Patton is the one to assign Logan the role of mom, while Logan’s own feelings and thoughts on the matter are ignored. This reflects the issues he’s been dealing with throughout recent episodes, being ignored and overlooked. The fact he is in the mom role furthers this, with again, in the ‘traditional nuclear family’ (ew) the mother’s work and suffering often being overlooked, because she is simply doing ‘what is expected’ of her.

Roman - “I’m the son, the hotshot, who’s only dream… is to be a star”

Being “the son” of among the ‘Light’ sides potentially links to Roman’s feelings of inferiority, believing he has less power in Thomas’ life compared to Patton and Logan - not surprising after POF. And his sad tone when talking about his dreams links to his feelings of being failure, both with the whole callback debacle and Thomas literally becoming a star, and just generally in his desire to be seen as Thomas’ hero.

Virgil - “I know you think I’m the son, but I’m not. I’ll be the gay emo cousin.”

Virgil immediately starts by separating himself from the rest of the core four, placing himself outside of the immediate family. This links to both his current strain against Patton, but also his insecurities after revealing himself as having once been a ‘Dark Side’. He no longer feels like he belongs with the ‘Light’ Sides, as was affirmed in the first episode of season 2. Rather, he puts himself in the immediate family of the other ‘Dark Sides’.

Remus - “I feel like I’m a fresh out of jail uncle.”

“Fresh out jail” equals new to the group. No one knows much about him or what exactly his deal is, since he hasn’t been around long. However, what they do know is he’s come from “jail” - aka, was repressed for being bad creativity. Therefore, they instantly have a negative bias against him and assume the worst.

Janus - “And I’m the sassy aunt. Who talks shit about everyone…”

Despite being ‘accepted’ by Thomas and opening up about his name at the end of POF, he still positions himself with the ‘Dark Sides’ and not the ‘Light’ ones. This could mean two things:

1) He has still not fully been accepted by Thomas,

Or 2) He doesn’t personally see himself as ‘with them’. Whether because he knows full well the ‘Light and Dark’ dichotomy is meaningless, or because he doesn’t trust them back, or because not all of the ‘Light’ sides accept him yet, we don’t know.

Him “talking shit about everyone” is also notable. He is the one who can see the problems among the core four, viewing them from the outside. He knows their weaknesses, struggles and issues - and he is going to make them apparent, so that they and Thomas can finally deal with them.

Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.

[virglsweb]

Pre-aa, Virgil was very uncomfortable with Remus. Janus knew this, and Janus helped him through his time with the core sides and his acceptance so he could move on from Remus. Virgil saw it as Janus pushing him away, which caused Virgil's hatred towards him.

Conclusion: Virgil no like Remus, Janus help Virgil get away from Remus but didn't mean to push him away entirely. Virgil took his help the wrong way