#prochoice arguments

[clementimetodie]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say being anti-vax is anti-prolife

"I'd rather have a dead child than a retarded child" is not the win you think it is, and in fact the exact same argument prochoicers use to justify aborting downs syndrome babies

[juliesque04]

The argument that semi-prochoice people have about abortion is so ridiculous because what the fuck do you mean "abortion should only be legal if it was rape or incest"???

Proving you were raped AT ALL is hard enough, you want them to wait until it's PROVEN they were raped to get an abortion? Do you know how long proving that shit legally takes? The baby could very well be born by the time you can legally prove a rape case. Trying to police who does and doesn't get an abortion is so inefficient and redundant. Have your own morals about who should and shouldn't get an abortion, but attempting to integrate that into federal law is genuinely ridiculous.

The worst argument, however, has to be Christians or otherwise religious people trying to integrate their own beliefs into the law. "Abortion is murder because the Bible says so!" Shut that shit up rn, ain't nobody gaf😭

[angyo]

Man i was scrolling twitter and saw some joky discussion about a theory that someone in milgram will be pregnant for t3, and while it 1. Would raise a lot of questions and plot holes, especially given they're implied not to be getting periods in milgram and 2. Would really suck for my tokophobic ass. I gotta hand it to the idea, it could play with some really fun themes, especially in the audience based event that milgram is. It would also raise some legendary bad discourse, just truly monumental and extremely entertaining bad takes like rarely seen before.

Like, instead of the question of yuno's "murder" seeming like just a simple "are you prochoice or antichoice", that would make it feel more like probing the audience before deciding to *really* test what they think about pregnancy. And yuno would absolutely catch on, and she'd have some real choice words for Es and depending on who and why, the pregnant person too.

Basically, it'd ask "if you're sure the life of a fetus doesn't count as a human life, then it won't effect your moral judgment, right?" Especially if the t3 guiltied get executed or something, imprisonment and execution of pregnant people has been contentious a very long time. I know my answer and it's consistent with being prochoice (I'm anti-punitive punishment in entirety) but hoo boy i could see a LOT of people tearing their hair out over it and yuno having a lot to say on the matter to add fuel to the fire.

While again, i really don't see this happening at all and i don't see any prisoners as particularly inclined to do it if they even could, it's quite funny to think about the absolute hydrogen bomb that would drop on the fandom lol. It's like if they suddenly canonized haruka was actually 25 or yuno killed a real child, except it's thematically relevant beyond the shock value.

The fact the most likely candidate would be muu (since she's unstable, unpredictable, desperate to bargain for an innocent verdict, hated enough by the fandom to likely actually get voted guilty otherwise, has haruka to follow her orders, and if haruka survives it's up in the air how complexity would be added to their stance as prisoners for t3) just makes it even more insane. With muu being super unstable (possibly hereditary), haruka being intellectually disabled (commonly hereditary), and both being teens, eugenics that people don't realize is eugenics would be the first argument seen and it'd only get crazier from there.

[acidsmooth]

I just caught onto the Pro-abortion left's word game. They say "Abortion is not murder" to reframe the discussion. This is a distraction. Abortion is legally distinct from murder so their statement is correct.

The argument is about where the line between abortion and murder lies.

Do not fall for the distraction. #abortion #prolife #prochoice #rowvwade

[bexorcist14]

Prolifer: Prochoicers don’t understand science, they could never convince me because I love science, science is at the crux of my argument, it’s important we rely on the science and science says life begins when sperm and egg meet and that is a literal scientific fact.

Prochoicer: Okay, call it a fetus then

Prolifer: No :)

[killjoygem]

It frustrates me when people talk about anencephaly in prochoice arguments but say it means the baby is already dead. This is a half truth, and is far too easy to refute. Don't make it easy for prolifers to argue back

Anencephaly does not mean the baby is already dead, or that the baby will definitely be still born. The condition is considered 100% fatal because almost* all babies will die within the first year of life, but around 70% of these babies are born alive, and 40% of those survive the first day. (Sadly almost all of them will die within the first week)

Basically, anencephaly is a complicated condition, if you're going to use it in a prochoice arguments make sure you are presenting it correctly. People should be able to make the choice to end the pregnancy to prevent having to carry a child to term only to almost certainly lose that child after birth. You can't present it as "the baby is already dead" because it usually isn't true and some parents (even prochoice ones) will make the choice to carry to term anyway

[my-fair-katie-of-the-lake]

Hi, different anon this time. Love your blog. ❤️

Wanted to just add two things to the prolife discussion if you don’t mind.

The first is about the “organ donation” point anon brought up, about how if a fetus has the right to use another’s body, then we shouldn’t be able to not be organ donors because dying people need the organs. The argument I’ve always heard is that the difference in those situations is the right to action. If we do nothing, a person in need of a new organ will naturally die if we choose not to give them an organ. However, in most cases, a healthy fetus in the womb will live if we do nothing to them. They die if we choose to intervene and abort them. The logic being you can choose whether or not to take action to help someone (by giving them an organ, and personally, I think you should help people if you are able, I’m not arguing against that) but you cannot choose to take action hurt someone (by aborting them or hurting them in any other way). Abortion is not choosing not to take action to help a fetus already dying, it’s taking something living and intentionally killing it. The prochoice argument rests on either A) yes, but that fetus, though it is alive with it’s own DNA, is not a person until ___ developmental time point and/or B) yes, but even if the fetus is a person, it is violating someone else’s right to their body, even if the woman who had sex did so willingly knowing there was a chance she could get pregnant (I’ve met prochoice people who believe both or only one of these things). The organ donation point seems to rest largely on point B, but again, that connects back to your (Katie’s) point that choosing sex that you know will likely result in pregnancy and the creation of a life is consenting to the pregnancy. And inconveniently, the only way to end said pregnancy is to kill a fetus or let the fetus grow and be delivered to term.

Additionally, I don’t know if you’re familiar with equal_rights_institute on Instagram, but they’re also a great resource for this stuff. I highly recommend you check them out.

Oh, and Happy Easter!

Sorry for not seeing this until now! I fully agree. It turns into a trolly problem of sorts, except in both situations, you know exactly what will or won't happen depending on what you do or don't do. If the natural course it for someone to live, stopping that is murder, letting that happen is simply nature's progression. If the natural course is for someone to die, stopping it is heroically saving a life, and letting it happen is a less joyful, considerably sadder progression of nature. There is an arrogance to the human race nowadays, deciding who should or shouldn't live or die and taking control of the way our own bodies naturally work. Sex might make babies. That's what it does, biologically, actually. And if you're going to have sex for pleasure or as a romantic act, which I don't see as a bad thing at all! it's a good thing!, a baby might Happen. If you don't want your body to grow a human, then... don't. You have that agency. But that agency shouldn't look like murder.

Happy very belated Easter!

[kaleobot]

sometimes i try the ig explore page and think it's fun but then in the middle of my fucking cute dog reel feed they're like "would you like to see a really stupid and awful "legal" justification debunking prochoice arguments? or how about some tradwife reappropriating prochoice arguments to say she shouldn't have to vaccinate her children? would you like that???" and it's like no. i actually didn't want my whole day to be ruined and will now be closing the app forever. thank you though.

[alanfromrochester]

This issue goes back to the W Bush administration, specific abortion procedure that involves removing the fetus intact

Partial-birth abortion, prolifers call it, but on wiki that redirects to the technical medical term:

1st, it's an extremely rare procedure so it seems unfair for prolifers to invoke against abortion in general (though I wonder if it's similar faulty logic for prochoicers to defend all abortion via particularly sympathetic motives)

2nd, when it is used, it's often for cases of severe abnormalities, so not killing a healthy baby as prolifers mean to imply (this also seems to be the case with late term abortions by other methods, though it does fit with conservative arguments against euthanasia generally)

Trump keeps repeating lies. They are not false claims. They are the biggest lies possible to malign mothers.

[thepro-lifemovement]

Speaking For the Unborn

As I read through “Speaking For the Unborn” by Steven A. Christie, M.D., J.D., I want to share the useful information included in the book. You can buy the book for yourself here. It’s quick rebuttals to pro-choice arguments. 

Companion Video Tutorial: Vid 1, Vid 2, Vid 3, Vid 4.

Why Bother?

Strategy

A Few Basic Definitions

“Why I am Pro-Life” (in 30 Seconds)

1. It’s not “alive” or “human” or a “person”: Argument 1-2. Arguments 3-6. Arguments 7-11.

2. A woman’s autonomy

3. One should never impose their personal beliefs on others

4. Women shouldn’t have to bear the burden and personal hardship of an unwanted pregnancy

5. You are just anti-woman, a misogynist: Arguments 31-37. Arguments 38-42.

6. Abortion empowers women

7. Abortion is best for society and best for unwanted babies

8. Miscellaneous arguments: Arguments 54-59. Arguments 60-65.

Resources for Pregnant Women.

[rantsofabookworm]

I don't give a flying fuck how much sex they have, how many people they do it with, or if they used birth control. I don't care if they were "asking for it" or whether they consented to sex.

EVERYONE should be able to get an abortion. I don't CARE what happened in the bed or with who. no one gets to tell them what to do with THEIR bodies. THEIRS. fuck you with your 'they knew what they were getting into" fuck you for saying you're pro choice and then arguing that women who have sex shouldn't get to make their own.

[emiliosandozsequence]

lol i don’t even want to hear you breathe if you’re prolife. 

[elgringo300]

This argument got debunked in like 2012 or something, prochoice people please stop being stupid,

Think think think

[m-tsuri]

I took my dog out right and as I was walking back in I passed by a car with a sticker on the back and I had to do a double take. I shit you not it read “unborn lives matter” now there’s a lot unpack there but can we stop changing BLM to support things that are harmful to others and can we please for the love of fuck let uterus having individuals decide what is best for them in regards to reproduction

[protego-et-servio]

Common Anti-Abortion Argument #7

Mentioning people who terminate pregnancies based on gender or disability.

The issue here isn’t abortion. The issue is underlying problems in that particular society.

In some countries, pregnancies that are predicted to be girls are terminated due to misogyny. 

Ableism is to blame for terminating pregnancies just because the fetus is disabled.

And, sometimes, it’s not just “I don’t want a girl” or “I don’t want a disabled baby.” Sometimes, the decision is made - consciously or subconsciously - with societal misogyny and societal ableism in mind. 

Abortion isn’t to blame for these issues.

[the-cat-and-the-birdie]

I know what proshipping means.

The reason I’m not calling myself proship is because by doing so I legitimize the situation as if there’s two level sides/perspectives.

The reason I don’t call myself proship is because that’s being normal. Letting other people do what they want is the bare minimum.

A better example of this is prolife and prochoice. That’s the situation that’s usually framed. But prolife and prochoice are NOT equal stances. One is about personal choice (prochoice) the other is about impersonal choice that concerns and controls other people. One of them is a legitimate stance, and the other is oppressive, invasive regurgitation centered around control.

Prolifers call themselves that to legitimize their illegitimate stance. When in reality it’s normal people vs sexists. (Prochoice vs prolife)

One is being normal and the other is being invasive. Any stance that is ‘they should - because I feel’ is not a stance I’m going to legitimize.

That’s why I said ‘it’s not real’. Proship vs antiship makes it seem like a discussion is happening when it isn’t.

Because one side has an argument - and the other side doesn’t. The other side is a ‘they should - because I feel’. So in my eyes, there’s no discussion whatsoever.

It’s normal people being normal vs invasive people being invasive.

Framing it as pro or anti anything as if each side has a solid stance and it’s a legit argument helps no one but antis.

Framing it as a discussion when it isn’t doesn’t help. Especially when in reality is mainly just proshippers minding their business and antis yelling at them for it.

That’s why in this case I don’t claim either of them.

To me it is not real, and ‘anti’ is just a word people use to cover up their own bigotry and hate. Let’s reframe the situation for what it is.

I’m not a proshipper and they arent antis. I’m a normal person writing what I want and they’re invasive, rude people who feel entitled to control that. When you put it that way, and stop letting them hide behind a title as if they have a legit stance, it makes it seem a lot less like a debate and a lot more of what it actually is - a situation in which people are being harassed over their personal choices.

That’s why I don’t call myself proship and that’s why i think the situation is stupid.

Because proship vs antiship frame it as a debate when it isn’t.

Also side bar: As someone who has been writing fanfiction for over 10 years I can really solidly say that proship and antiship are VERY new concepts. As in the words didn’t exist or were never used in fandom spaces prior to 2014 at the earliest. With this wiki claiming that pro-ship was coined in 2017.

By that time I had already graduated high school and I’m not even that old lol

also if you believe in that proship antiship stuff uhhhhh maybe unfollow cause that shit is not real. it isn’t real to me any of it

Ship Hobie with whoever the hell you want. ‘Immoral ships-‘ mfer we was shipping Bella and Edward as if it weren’t the most toxic relationship ever

This ‘proship’ stuff is literally brand new TikTok culture and it’s STUPID.

If you wanna write a cute Punkchai fic go ahead if you wanna write some explicit ass x reader throwing it back and making it clap for him that’s fine too!!!! IDC!!

anti-shipping is stupid as hell and setting yourself up for disappointment when strangers inevitably do something you cannot control

Like sure mind your business hoe!! This ain’t about you!!! Uncomfortable? Go mind your comfortable ass business then!

Y’all talking about racist implications and analyzations- like this isn’t about race or age it’s about y’all really not minding your own business and telling ppl what to do with their creative labor

Argue with the wall.