#pullman form analysis | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

firstginger · 1 year

Note

hey there, i don't knoe if you're the best person to ask but you seem pretty knowlegable. Do you know of any good resources for Pullman forms? I know the Daemon forum has a good index, but they all seem to be analytical forms. Thanks!

oh TDF actually has a separate section on pullman forms now! it doesn't have as many entries as the analytical section, but it's actually pretty extensive and will probably be a good starting place to even get a feel for what type of animal embodies you. they're also just so fun to read through, as i'm pretty unfamiliar with animal symbolism/associations outside of my own culture.

here's the link to the portrait/sketch museum! they also take form-finding requests on the forum and i know they have a discord too that i'm sure would be happy to chat about it.

TDF aside, i did an overview on jungian character archetypes and pullman forms that i think people found helpful -- here's the link to that! i recommended this quiz for identifying your top 2-3 archetypes which might help you to start identifying animals that are associated with that character archetype.

and then personal research is also fun! when examining pullman forms, i tend to zoom in on three categories:

1. The class/order of the animal. In the original series, specific patterns were developed such as scholars and academics having bird daemons and civil servants and care providers having domestic canine daemons. For this i'm going to lean into the Jungian archetypes: we can attribute certain species to fitting archetypes of the creator, the lover, the explorer, the outlaw, etc, which is a good starting place for understanding what animal class/order/genus form might fit you best before you funnel into a specific species.

2. The geographical location of the animal. People have animal daemons from the region they feel is most like home. For some this might be where you grew up, for others it might be a place you're drawn to or realized you were home when you arrived. This includes continent or country but also biome.

3. And of course, the symbolic associations of the animal. In these shorter roundups, I'm going to try and put forth three essential associations for each form to be explored as to not make each analysis too lengthy. These will be under the umbrella of what's associated with the animal form in general (so like how you'd first have to fit an owl form -> and here are the specific associations of a burrowing owl).

so for example, here's a pullman writeup for a douglas squirrel i have rotting away in my drafts:

DOUGLAS SQUIRREL, Tamiasciurus douglasii Class: The Douglas squirrel can first be broadly interpreted as a rodent form, and then specifically a type of squirrel. The squirrel can often be considered an artist: they are self-motivated, imaginative, and hyperactive, people who enjoy both working hard and playing hard. As opposed to other species who rely a lot on creation or tool use, squirrels' specialty is in knowledge-gathering and preparation. This sets them apart in this category as they may also assume some of the explorer archetype: open-minded and restless, with difficulty committing to one thing or feeling satisfied with their outcomes. Finally, squirrels are often seen as the jester. They are noisy and playful, but it is important to note that it's not at the expense of their resources and drive. They are most motivated by discovery and a good standing in life, with just a pinch of anxiety. Region: The Douglas squirrel is a Pacific Northwest animal, found in northern California through southwestern Canada. They live in old-growth coniferous forests or other forests with conifers. Most of their regional associations revolve around evergreens, forests, and the Pacific Northwest; they're not as urban as the gray squirrel, and are much more connected to rural and wilderness environments rather than urban and city ones. Associations: Three essential associations for the Douglas squirrel are curiosity, gathering, and self-expression. These people are going to be ruled by imagination and collection, gatherers of physical items or of knowledge and defending it. They are shaped by their sense of preparation and yet their energy is often scattered. It is almost impossible for them to not be true to themselves; they are bringers of self-expression with noise and mischief. This person is therefore one that is drawn to explore the world around them, naturally gathers and surrounds themselves with comfort, and has a boisterous but genuine nature.

hope this helps! :)

#personal #daemonism #form finding

23 notes · View notes

analytic-daemons · 9 months

Text

Introduction & Info

If you've stumbled on this blog at random, I suggest having a read of this!

Reason being, the topic of this blog is related to a very niche community and probably won't make any sense at all without context. :P

First thing's first, a quick introduction to me: I'm Rook, a queer agender adult. I use they/them pronouns, thanks!

I'm a daemian, and have been for over a decade. ^u^ I'm going to be crossposting modified versions of my analytic interpretations from TDF to here!

~~~~~

Right, before I get into explanations, some blog info!

I categorise analyses posted here with tags for different groups they belong to. So an ant analysis might be tagged with #invertebrate, #insect, #hymenoptera, and #ant.

Important note: posts here will likely contain images of animals, and that includes animals that may be triggers for those with phobias (such as spiders and snakes)! I will always tag these with the animal for categorisation purposes (e.g. spiders will be tagged with #spider) and I'll try and remember to tag them with trigger warnings too (e.g. #tw spider).

I don't prioritise writing analyses for well-known or iconic animals. You can expect a bit of a mixture!

Yes, you can request an analysis! Bear in mind these things take a big chunk of time to research and write, so please be patient with me. I'll edit this if my inbox gets too full. '^^

I'll be posting shortened versions of my analyses on this tumblr, but I'll also link to the full version on TDF (which has info on how I interpreted the traits I list) in the post!

~~~~~

Okay, Q&A time~

Wait, wait, you lost me. Daemian?

Right, context time! A daemian is a person who practices daemonism. Despite how it might sound, this isn't a spiritual practice or a religion -- more of a psychological thing for most of us!

Daemonism has its roots in the fan community for His Dark Materials (HDM), a book series by author Philip Pullman.

In HDM, every human has a sapient companion called a "dæmon" that represents their inner nature. Dæmons begin their lives as animal shapeshifters, but when their human reaches a certain age they settle into a permanent animal form which represents their human in some way.

Daemians took this idea and built a community and practice around it! Daemonism has two sides: one is to learn to communicate with your daemon, who is usually a psychological aspect of yourself or your mind; the other side is to find a fitting form. The latter is what this blog is concerned with!

The daemian community is a pretty old one by internet standards -- about two decades old now, if I'm remembering correctly! It's always been niche, but we're super welcoming to those wanting to learn more or give it a try. c:

So what's an "analytic interpretation"?

Within the daemian community, a few different ways have emerged to find what form your daemon might take to represent you.

Some of these align closely with the way daemon forms work in HDM -- they use cultural associations and animal symbolism. So, a lion might be proud, bold and lazy!

Analytic is a bit of a different beast. The analytic system was thought up by the daemian community, who wanted a system which more aligned with real animal behaviour rather than anthropomorphisation.

Analytic is a system that translates animal behaviour into human personality traits. There are conventions for how this is done, which give the system a bit of consistency -- but ultimately it's still more of an art than a science, and not everyone would interpret an animal in exactly the same way. That's okay, though! It's just part of the fun. :P

Analyses are write-ups which describe how the author interprets the animal's behaviour. That's mostly what I intend to post on this tumblr!

Analyses are written as resources for the daemian community, to help them find a form which they feel fits who they are. ^^

How does someone find what animal fits them?

Analytic form-finding is a big, big topic! There's a lot of depth to it, really.

Most people start their analytic journey by making a list of their personality traits. They can then compare this list against existing analyses, find animal behaviours that may align, or share the list with the daemian community so others can make suggestions!

If you're interested in getting involved, I highly recommend joining the daemian community!

There's two main, active centres for the daemian community online. The oldest is The Daemon Forum (TDF), which -- given it's a forum -- isn't the busiest place, but there's still folks around!

TDF also has a Discord server, which is a bit more lively! It's a good place to ask questions and interact with members of the daemian community.

Can I ask questions about daemonism / analytic forms / etc. here?

Yes! Absolutely feel free! Daemonism is my special interest of all time, I love talking about it. :D You can ask stuff about general daemonism too, not just forms or analytic stuff!

So... what's your analytic form? >:)

I'm an analytic European hornet and proud! 🐝🐝🐝

#daemonism #daemons #daemon forms #tdf #teadeef

4 notes · View notes

mapledaemonism · 2 years

Text

30 DAY DAEMIAN CHALLENGE

DAYS 2-5!!

I posted day one then IMMEDIATELY forgot I was doing this, so let's knock out the days I missed all at once, eh? And if you missed day 1, check here!

Day 2: Do you have more than one dae, and what do you think of having more than one?

No, I don't have more than one - just the one! And I'm pretty neutral on having multiple honestly - I don't see anything wrong with it at all, I'm just not inclined towards having multiple entities I'd call my daes.

Day 3: What are your dae's favorite/personal/comfort form(s) and yours? Are they the same or not?

We together decided on forms for him, so they are roughly the same. His favored form is clouded leopard, and that is the form he takes 99% of the time. It's one I'm really fond of, too, and probably my favorite form of his as well! The only other form he takes is cheetah, which I enjoy sometimes - he isn't opposed to the form but it's not as comfortable for him, he really only takes it when I need something a little bigger to hold. So overall, yeah, we have the same preferred form for him!

Day 4: What is your symbolic/Pullman form?

I'll be honest, I hadn't really considered a symbolic form - or rather, I had considered the form we chose to be all-encompassing of both symbol and analysis. My dae is not wont to change shape often, which I'm not complaining about, as I enjoy the stability of having basically one shape to focus on for him. If we look though at how my friends and family perceive me, through the cultural lens of how I was raised, I'd say my symbolic form would likely be either some kind of domestic canine or, honestly, some kind of small wild cat - such as a clouded leopard. I think it depends on who you ask, because my family all see me as very feline - aloof, only open to attention when I want it, independent, self-sufficient. But I've had one friend in particular say they see me as a domestic canine - people pleasing, needing attention, etc. So while I guess either form could theoretically be true, I'm inclined more towards the feline, because my friend's perception of me is rather colored by how they expect me to behave in accordance with their needs and ideals, not by how I actually am when I am in my element and fully myself.

Day 5: What is your analytical form?

So, TDF is what we used to try and decide on a form, but I am well aware the page for clouded leopard says it is a potentially unviable form due to a lack of wild-specimen information. And that's fine, though I still would consider that the analytical form. But, if we're talking about completely TDF-Approved Viable™ forms, it would be cheetah, which is actually the reason we settled on that as a possible form. Because it is also makes sense for us, and is fully viable.

Anyway! Thanks for reading! Maybe I'll actually keep up on these...or maybe you'll see another long form multi-day post like this again in a week, who knows!

#daemonism #30 day daemian challenge #his dark materials #leaf litter

1 note · View note

tamacatleen · 3 years

Photo

I did another drawing of Antarès which I wanted to do for so long! I had it in my brain, how I wanted it to look like but not precisely and a few weeks ago I had this idea, and honestly? I’m quite proud of it, I put a lot of thought into it and I believe, I hope, it shows

(I collected elements from my 2 other posts, for those who saw them : the info about the names, constellations and stars, the “dæmon” definition)

There are different color variations of this drawing once again, I wanted to include Dust you’ll see it in the last pictures, and I did English and French versions for the texts!

(Also I didn’t mention it before but the analysis from The Dæmon Forum helped me a lot! for both my dæmon and friends/family for who I looked up forms who would fit because I was curious about it 😂)

Also here’s part of the descriptions I put for my last Antarès posts (edited) :

"Un renard change de poil, non de caractère." 🦊

A grey fox Antarès ! Remember my post about my dæmon and everything? I guess I was wrong, because grey foxes are much more of a potential dæmon for my personality (INFJ/Ravenclaw/Neutral Good), according to studies of their behavior, than eurasian eagle owls are 😭

In the trilogy of fantasy novels His Dark Materials, by Philip Pullman, dæmons are the external physical manifestation of someone's "inner-self", someone's voice of reason, someone' soul taking the form of an animal. They are animal-shaped embodiment of a human soul. They have human intelligence and can talk regardless of the form they take. Children's dæmons can take any form, real or imaginary, and shapeshift as much as they want, instantaneously and voluntarily. During adolescence a person's dæmon settles, taking permanently and involuntarily the form of the animal that matches the most their human's personality. They usually behave as if they were independent of their humans. Dæmons resembles perfectly the animal they take the form of from their appearance to their behavior but they are not true animals, humans, other dæmons and true animals are able to tell them apart on sight. Most of the time a dæmon is of the opposite gender of their human. Dæmons often interact with each other mimicking their humans relationships. Human contact with someone else dæmon's is strictly prohibited, dæmon touching is taboo. I believe that if I was part of Lyra's world (His Dark Materials) my dæmon would have settled as a gray fox (urocyon cinereoargenteus), he would be named Antarès and his nickname would be Nunki. Antarès is the traditional name of Alpha Scorpii, the brightest object in the constellation of Scorpius, and derives from the Ancient Greek word that means "rival-to-Arès" (or "opponent-to-Mars") and Nunki is the traditional Assyrian or Babylonian name of Sigma Sagittarii from the constellation of Sagittarius. These names reference to my birthday, 22 November, I could be seen as a Scorpio or a Sagittarius.

(Those are theories or "headcanons" of course!)

Also : Dæmons are able to hold different intuitions to their humans and reveal emotions to others that might not otherwise be obvious in their humans counterparts. Dæmons share the same dreams as their humans and can communicate both verbally and non-verbally with them, a dæmon is their human and a human is their daemon : if someone's dæmon is hurting the person is hurting too, most of the time when a human sleep their dæmon sleeps too.

(+ except for witches (in the books) dæmons have to stay at a short distance from their human, otherwise they'll both hurt)

Hope you like it! 🧡 💕

Source for most of the information : Wikipedia

45 notes · View notes

sundiscsandemptyciphers · 3 years

Text

A short history of TDF form finding

So, The Daemon Forum has created two main types of way to find a daemons settled form - analytic form finding, and Pullman form finding.

The evolution of analytic form finding is intertwined with the history of the community. Back when the community first started, the way form finding worked was rather simplistic, and a slightly thrown together mix of symbolism and behavior analysis and sort of just really simplistic this = that stuff. Think "my daemon is a fish because I enjoy swimming".

Over time, really between then and 2014, community members collaboratively started to refine the system, which created the personality typing system that was analytic forms which is one of the most in depth systems that, arguably there is.

And then, when it had hit a point of evolution where it was really solidified some people, rightly, went "what about symbolism?". And also "in the HDM books, the myth that created all of this, it's really different and about symbolism" which led to the community decision to establish another system which really focused on that - Pullman forms (also sometimes known as symbolic forms).

There was a phase there having these multiple systems led to people wanting an absolute tonne of types of forms (sun form is one I remember, although I do not remember what that actually...meant) - to the point where it honestly got a tad ridiculous and redundant, and then the community settled on having four primary form types: analytic, Pullman, comfort (a form taken because it feels nice, in short) and personal (a form taken that has some personal meaning, but does not fit the analytic or Pullman systems).

#daemonism #daemon #daemons #the daemon forum #form finding

35 notes · View notes

myriadeyed · 2 years

Text

Day 4 (July 4th)

What is your symbolic/Pullman form? If you don’t follow the TDF system, just make something like art, writing, or a moodboard instead!

We don’t really follow the TDF system, for a few reasons. One, my view of animals has been tainted by a special interest in biology, and I’m not too into assigning human attributes and personality traits onto animals. And another, we find it constraining, and generally unimportant to our approach to dæmonism. Tetri is settled, and the TDF system didn’t really factor into it at all -- ironically though, it does so happen that the forum’s analysis of common palm civets fits me. And symbolically it could be anything. So if people ever ask, we just say Asian palm civet is our.. whatever form they’re asking about.

I know I answered the question but here’s an old moodboard I made a while ago anyway:

#30 day daemian challenge #challenges

3 notes · View notes

calvin-in-the-wild · 2 years

Note

Here’s the analysis of a snowshoe hare; I’m curious if it fits! https://daemonpage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22810

Most dæmons don’t settle right away rather they change forms for awhile. Zeph changed a lot and still does now and then, as first of all he’s stable and second being settled as a dæmian doesn’t have to mean they can never change now and then briefly. Some dæmians use analytic like these analyses and some use Pullman which is more symbolic for formfinding, some both and some neither. You may find snowshoe hare fits perfect!

It fits a lot, thank you!

#:333 #dae #daemon #daemons #daemonism

3 notes · View notes

oliverthedaemon · 2 years

Note

Hi! I have a question related to daemons (I'm not sure weather or not you will reply but that is okay 🙂) I believe my daemon would be an orangutan called Auri. But I'm gay and according to Philip pullman, he said that if you are gay the daemon takes the form of your gender and a female orangutan relates to me more seeing as I'm more social and not so aggressive. Also if you had the time and you wanted to could you do an analysis on orangutan daemons? it would be really interesting to see you view on it, thankyou!

Hello! What a wonderful dæmon form.

I think the gender thing is not an exact art. I am gay and Oliver is male but not really because of my sexuality. More just because a male form felt right.

So I am not very good at analyzing based on animal behavior, the symbolism is more my thing, and the symbolism for an animal could be taken lots of different ways. Which is fun but this is not an exact science so do not feel bad if this does not sound like you.

When I think of an orangutan (like most large apes) I think of great wisdom and gentleness. An orangutan person is going to be naturally peaceful and prefer to avoid conflict. They may even make those around them more gentle or simply exude an aura of calm. This person will also be wise, not in a scholarly way but in a worldly way. They understand how things work and how to help people. Making them invaluable givers of advice. However, in local mythology orangutans are sometimes feared and thought to be violent. To be sure, this is an animal with a lot of strength that can be vicious when it wants. So underneath this wise and gentle exterior, it is quite possible that an orangutan person has some ferocity or a hidden dark side.

Thanks so much for your question, I do love doing this stuff so much!

#daemonism

4 notes · View notes

lordeasriel · 4 years

Text

The Sun never sets on the Magisterium

The reach of the Holy Church in Lyra’s world is the first and most prominent worldbuilding aspect we learn from Northern Lights. It is the most important introduction one has to this world, so vastly different than ours yet so similar still, and it is the one trait that remains constant throughout both trilogies and novellas included.

This is an analysis of the Church in Lyra’s world, so spoilers for all the books and novellas, most likely. I’ll try and make a single post about this but I’m gonna reserve the right of maybe doing two separate parts because it’s a big subject. Under the cut because you know the drill, it’s long lol

The Magisterium was founded after John Calvin’s death, who had been Pope, and had the seat of the Church moved to Geneva. Although it is never clear, the Magisterium’s religious aspects come mostly from the Roman Catholic Church, and Pullman himself said in an interview, that some of its dogma is based on the original puritans. In this world, Calvin didn’t seem to have moved forward with his reform, not needing to break ties with the Catholic Church since he had become the Catholic Church.

Despite becoming a vast collective of “courts, colleges, and councils,” the Magisterium remains rather similar to most Christian branches from our world, at least in the medieval times. They had ties with kingdoms, they had influence over colonization, as well as economic and political influence, not to mention military too.

In Lyra’s world, the Magisterium seems intimately tied to Geneva’s politics, at the very least; it gives the impression that the city is somehow independent from the rest of Switzerland, not unlike the Vatican is independent from Italy. It is however, mentioned that the Swiss War was an armed conflict between England and the Magisterium, which means that they must have a full fledged control over the entire country and not just Geneva, although like most things in these books, this is not a sure claim.

With the Swiss War happening some time around 1933 and 1935, it gives this wild and quite odd picture, of a Church actively trying to invade a country. Although not that foreign a concept, since the Catholic Church was highly involved with the colonization process of our world, they never quite invaded the countries themselves (at least during the 1500s colonizations, as the Crusades were sort of Catholics invading countries lmao), instead joining later as the Monarchs of Europe established outposts and colonies and had already subdued natives in the area.

We do not have an exact date for the Magisterium’s creation, the implication being that it was set somewhere 600 years prior to Marcel Delamare’s acceptance of Leader of the High Council in TSC, it is fair to assume that colonization was already happening in Lyra’s world’s 15th century-ish and that the Magisterium was involved with that much in the same way it was in our world: by converting people, be it by force or by persuasion.

However, in Lyra’s world, the Magisterium stopped being a fully religious entity at some point, and became a full fledge state-like organization, spread all across the globe in different shapes and names, all answering to the bigger and more powerful groups, usually stationed in Geneva: the College of Bishops during its initial centuries, then eventually the Consistorial Court of Discipline, who by NL had become an immensely powerful group, in a power conflict with the less threatening Society of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The CCD being the harshest and most powerful group in the Magisterium, at least during the events of HDM, seemed to have had a lot of power in Geneva and in nearby areas, such as France (as we learn in LBS, the alethiometrists of Paris were sympathetic to the Church, not a surprise given France’s very Catholic Background) and Germany.

With information known from LBS and HDM, the Magisterium seems to hold under its power both the Swiss Army (implied, at least, given the Swiss War being a conflict created by the Magisterium itself) and the Imperial Guard of Muscovy, which seemed to have been under the control of the CCD in particular. It is not explained exactly why the Muscovite Army serves the Church and personally, my knowledge of anything Eastern Europe is very slim, so I’m not gonna attempt to assume much, but given that in TSK it is said they were “sworn to uphold the power of the Magisterium”, it’s possible — and very likely — that the Muscovite government had some sort of deep rooted connection with the Church. Again, not a surprise for Europe, as most countries had monarchies connected to the Church very intimately.

I’m not diving deep into every single one of the Magisterium groups, especially because we know very little about most of them. During the Magisterium congress in TSC, it is mentioned that 53 delegates attended, each representing a group at least (we know both Pierre Binaud AND the President of the CCD attended and they both are part of the same group), so that alone should prove why I couldn’t possibly talk about every single one of them lmao Some of those aren’t even mentioned by name. So, before I tackle on the most important groups and what they represent, I wanted to discuss how the Magisterium’s influence in the world seems to work in a geographical way.

We know for a fact that Geneva — and Switzerland, at least implied so — is absolutely under the control of the Church. Whether they share power with a political group or they are the political branch themselves, I could not say, but at any rate, we know the Magisterium waged war on England under the Swiss banner at one point in time and it’s fairly unlikely that it changed much in less than a century; that alone proves that State and Church don’t seem separate here.

So, how I perceive the Church in Lyra’s world — not just based on preference, but also on what we see of the world, however little it is — is that the further the country and cities are from Geneva, the looser the Magisterium’s grasp is and the more different its approach to power becomes. I use the word ‘looser’ here very lightly, as I don’t think the Americas weren’t oppressed, but I think the Magisterium had a much different type of hold and influence there, and I do think the huge oceans separating Europe from Oceania and the Americas helped change the pull of the Church.

That is different from how it happened in our world, but there is also the difference in how the Magisterium operates; each of its groups work under different philosophies and dogmas and politics. They embody the same religion - Christianism - but they do not act the same way, a good example being how the faithful in Constantinople act towards the Patriarch, while England has very little respect for the CCD, instead just fearing it. In our world, the Church operated sort as an unified front, but in Lyra’s world these many groups are always and constantly fighting each other for power and influence, creating alliances and making enemies between themselves. In England alone, we see that many groups have “outposts” there, the CCD and the Oblation Board, as well as all the Priories and chapels and all that.

There is also the fact that Lyra’s world still seems to have a very independent Africa, as we see the presence of King Ogunwe, meaning that some of the areas in Africa still had independent Kingdoms. This doesn’t mean that the African colonies that did exist weren’t converted or oppressed, but it does mean that these independent Kingdoms resisted the Church’s influence and depending on what group was harassing them, they could succeed in breaking the Church’s ever growing presence. This seems a similar situation for the Americas, given how odd the borders are in Lyra’s world — South America having way less countries than it does in our worlds and the US never being formed, instead separated into at least two regions, three depending if New France means Canada or yet another part of a possible US.

This is a very ugly map I coloured to show my point lmao The Red Areas cover most of Western Europe and some of Eastern Europe, as well as a part of Russia. All these areas are connected by roads or trains, meaning that the Magisterium’s pull could have started long before airplanes were even created; these means the influence and presence would have existed for a long period of time in most of Europe, meaning More Magisterium Strength. It also covers areas I assumed would be heavily populated areas in the colonies, most of the coastal areas in Brasil, most of the United States because they have two different countries in them — Texas and New Denmark — and most of Coastal Australia, although by HDM it’s fair to assume all these regions are no longer colonies, but independent states.

I didn’t go into full detail, there are countries I didn colour with red but that should be red. The Green Areas are contested Areas, places where the Magisterium would have a presence but that would create conflicts for different reasons, being other religions, an uncooperative governement or simply because the group in charge of the area is not competent or too violent to properly establish a presence. This would be the areas in the continents, especially in Africa, where in our world they were heavily colonised but in Lyra’s world they are still independent kingdoms, with military forces and political freedom. Some parts of Russia are green because in Lyra’s world there is the implication Russia is divided into at least three different territories — Muscovy, Tartary and Siberia — and the tartars are considered heretics by the Church; is the territory I painted in green correspondent to actual Tartar regions? I have no idea, but I’m hoping you can forgive my geographic inaccuracy in favour of all this mega meta thing I just spurred. LMAO

And finally the Purple Areas are mostly in places where the weather would be too harsh or where population would be too small to attract the eye of the Magisterium. Ultimately, the Church in Lyra’s world does not only seek to convert everyone and rid the world of heretics, but they also want political influence, economical and military as well, and a small village in Greenland offers absolutely none of that. Some of these areas would also be found in Asia, I believe, especially the very distant and small villages where Islam would have been able to survive. I’ve written a bit about other religions in Lyra’s world if you want to read before going on.

With all that in mind — and out of the way! — let’s take a closer look at the Magisterium most notable groups. Starting of course, with the CCD, it’s important to keep in mind that the CCD was the first group created in the Magisterium. It wasn’t always, however, the most powerful one; in Northern Lights, it’s said they only gained notoriety in “recent years”, and we see in La Belle Sauvage that they were already active, including in England, so my assumption is that not only Pullman did a slight retcon here, but also that recent years can mean somewhere in the range of 70 to 100 years. This doesn’t change the fact the CCD became powerful and feared in the Magisterium, nor that their power in England grew considerably between LBS and TAS and then TSC. They are mostly an enforcer type of group (this is how I refer to them, not canon: enforcer or militia for groups that can arrest, or do any type of Police/militia/army related type of work; dogmatic is how I refer to the groups that usually deal with conversion, reeducation, philosophical works - this isn’t relevant, I’m just. Trying to Make Sense lmao) and as an enforcer, the CCD is violent and ruthless and often lawless in its work outside Geneva.

Despite the fact they are known as a Church Authority, they cannot murder freely and without consequence. In England they act in the shadows during LBS, disguising Robert Luckhurt’s murder as a drowning, and not much is known about their work during HDM, but in TSC they start to openly arrest people for heresy, no doubt a change from the government after Marcel’s rise to power. The CCD seems to act all across Europe and even Central Asia, as we see some of its forces in Constantinople, although it isn’t clear if they were there simply because the Patriarch died or if they are also stationed in the city; the Sublime Porte had its own guards as well, given its status as a government base.

Not much is known of the Society of the Work of the Holy Spirit, except that they seemed less harsh than the CCD and during their quest to find Lyra, they were far more interested in not killing her. Lord Asriel mentions in TAS about his surprise in learning that Lord Roke managed to infiltrate the group, as they were considered impregnable; given Lady Salmakia’s method, and the whole attitude of the group towards the prophecy — it was assumed they weren’t going to do anything about it — I’d safely assume they were more inclined towards being dogmatic.

Perhaps even older than the CCD, the College of Bishops was perhaps inherited from the Catholic Church before the Magisterium was born. It was known to be the most remarkable and powerful of the groups for centuries after the creation of the Magisterium. Not much is said about them, but given their counterpart in our world, I’d assume they were more inclined towards dogma than enforcer. They are, in our world, a collection of bishops who work closely with the Pope; in Lyra’s world, by the time the Magisterium existed, the Pope no longer existed, so the assumption is that the College replaced the Pope figure altogether, being led by all the bishops in the collection, probably working like a council.

Everything we know about La Maison Juste is confusing and unclear, as most things worldbuilding-wise are in these books. Their official name is League for the Instauration of the Holy Purpose, which coincides with Olivier Bonneville’s description of their work, about “accomodating the life of the world to the life of the spirit”. In other words, it means making sure that daily life can be fitted into the dogma of the Church; it’s vital for the Magisterium to adapt as progress comes. Unlike the CCD, that suppress anything that borders heresy, La Maison Juste seems more inclined towards adapting the dogma so the world can still be within the Magisterium’s expectations.

However, there is mention of La Maison Juste being a place meant to study and examine heresy; there is also a mention in TSC, by Olivier, about how the group changed under Marcel’s leadership, “being a force for good” in the ranks of the Magisterium. What that means exactly, I can’t say; it could be Marcel changed the heresy examination to something more productive and less harsh, or it could just mean he became more strict towards heresy, but that would conflict with Olivier’s description about the accomodation thing. At any rate, I do classify them as dogmatic, and we see Marcel using the CCD to go after Olivier when he flees Geneva; it’s curious because there seems to be implied the CCD outranks his group, but he still uses their forces to do anything remotely violent. There is however, a passage where Lyra lies to a guard from the Office of Right Duty about being part of La Maison Juste, and the guard gets spooked. This is curious because La Maison Juste barely seems remarkable up until the congress happens, but the mention scares the man off.

Two groups — that we know of — were responsibility of Mrs. Coulter. The League of St. Alexander seemed to have been created around the same time LBS happens (roughly 1986 if the timeline makes any sense, which probably doesn’t). Hannah Relf learns at some point that Marisa was behind it, but it’s never clear what was her role in it exactly. It doesn’t look like the League was a private initiative, but actually tied to the Church and it was as good a Scam as any. Marisa being behind it didn’t necessarily mean she was the active leader of the group, as they mention a man under the codename Bishop seemed to be in charge, but then again, I cannot say with certainty. They were definitely a dogmatic group, with brainwashing added to the mix, but they seemed to have mutated over time and it isn’t clear whether they only existed in England or not.

The General Oblation Board was Mrs. Coulter’s actual, proper group. It was a private initiative, under the CCD’s rule, but the nature of their work seemed to threaten the CCD’s leadership in the Magisterium. MacPhail made an extra effort to try and dismantle them, especially because he believed that Dust should be destroyed and not examined. I don’t think the fate of the group was ever disclosed, despite their losses, but by TAS MacPhail mentions them as if they are still functioning. Whether they survived up to TSC is not clear, but it’s also hard to imagine what could they have become without Marisa. It’s also interesting to think what would have happened to the Magisterium, had Marisa succeeded in taking the place of the CCD; a private initiative group as the most powerful group in the Magisterium would have caused drastic changes, and probably opened the doors to the big corporations much sooner than Marcel’s work in TSC. The GOB could be classified as dogmatic, given their interest in Dust, but they were far more into scientific research than La Maison Juste seems to be, for example. They also had their own private guards, so no need for the CCD’s enforcers.

I think these groups showcase well how the Magisterium operates. The further we see Lyra go into the East, we realise how the grip of the Church seems lighter and far more military inclined. Is the Magisterium everywhere? Frankly, I don’t think so. I think they have a substantial presence in every country with any amount of political influence or power; any country that might offer opposition. We know they tried to conquer England through an actual war, which is quite odd for a religion, but this is where the Theocracy takes it place in Lyra’s world: they become a single unified front with their country — Switzerland, in this case — and the countries where they have more power, they can also control. The places they can’t take by force, they take with dogma and faith, and slowly overthrow these governments by turning their people against themselves.

They are so vastly fragmented that even places with small groups are affected by their presence, no matter small and odd that can be. It’s both curious and terrifying to see a world so deeply overwhelmed by a single opponent, but then again, it’s not that far off our reality. The Magisterium doesn’t represent just faith and religion, but also the big oligarchies, and how governments bend to the will of big companies, and how these aligned forces can become oppressive over time. The Church’s hold across Europe, Africa and Asia was not fast and unpredictable; it was obvious and slow. It started with small conversions and with time, the Church become a force of sustainability for different regions; they become an important part of the enviroment, of the economy, of the security of the country. They become something to be relied on and thus removing them become difficult over time as well, as the micro societies — the neighborhoods, the small villages — they become reliant on the Church’s helpful groups to survive, meaning that their fear of the enforcers are overwhelmed by the help of the Chapels, and the priories.

It’s the creation of a co-dependent ecosystem that is very difficult to dissolve without harming innocent people.

#hdm meta: worldbuilding #hdm meta: the magisterium #hdm meta: religion #hdm meta: politics #hdm meta #lmao it's a lot of meta this blog is very organised #the magisterium #his dark materials #the book of dust #meta by effie

49 notes · View notes

whumpster-fire · 3 years

Text

Super Hot His Dark Materials Take: (Amber Spyglass spoilers)

Aside from the whole saving the multiverse by being the proverbial finger in the dike stopping all the Dust from leaking out thing, Lyra and Will deserve way, WAY more credit for single-handedly (or, 3.6-handedly) unfucking the entire horrible broken excuse for an afterlife the setting had.

The importance of what they did cannot be overstated. Every single human being who ever lived in Lyra’s world was torn away from their daemons by death and condemned to an eternity of suffering. The world of the dead in HDM wasn’t just a standard “boring stand around and do nothing underworld,” it was hell. (a) because there wasn’t actually nothing, it was full of harpies constantly reminding people of their worst memories i.e. torturing them, and (b) the existence of daemons and the fact that severing a living person from their daemon is just about the worst thing you can possibly do to them means any afterlife where ghost and daemon are separated is automatically hell. Lyra saved the souls of literally billions of people from an eternity of this torture, and Lee’s ending heavily implies that there is still a consciousness after the ghost dissolves and that it’s at least possible for the freed souls to be reunited with their daemons.

Even Hotter Take:

Lyra and Will are supposed to explicitly be Adam and Eve figures except that the “Fall” of humanity is actually a good thing. But, in complete seriousness, I’m pretty sure they’re also both the Christ of HDM’s cosmology. And I’m saying this as someone who usually hates “This character is a Christ figure” literary analysis.

Seriously, like... I’m not a Christian and my knowledge of theology is limited, but isn’t the reason why the death and resurrection of Jesus in Christian theology is such a big deal because he redeemed the souls of all humanity by sacrificing himself and spent the three days between Good Friday and Easter going down into Hell and freeing the souls of all the people who’d been put there solely because of original sin and brought them up to heaven?

Obviously one of the trilogy’s major themes is that Original Sin doesn’t exist / isn’t actually sinful - so there’s no such thing as redemption from it - but Lyra and Will literally did the closest thing in HDM’s cosmology to the job that the Magisterium probably told everyone Jesus did.

Descended into the closest thing to Hell by suffering, sacrifice, and their own “death”? Check. They didn’t literally die, but to enter the land of their dead they were forced to tear their souls asunder, leaving their daemons behind just as the dead did.

Led the souls of all those who had died before them up out of the underworld to “Heaven?” Check. The fate of the freed souls in the setting is a state of oneness with the universe and true transcendence of mortal forms. However, I’ve seen some descriptions of heaven/salvation being a state of oneness with God, and Pullman’s cosmology seems to me to be basically pantheist - that is, divinity and the universe are one and the same - divinity is Dust, the force behind all consciousness, and it’s everywhere, within everyone and everything - and the oblivion Amber Spyglass describes is actually one model of a Pantheist afterlife. They didn’t save humanity from humanity’s sin, but they did save humanity from eternal “damnation.” And I guess post-TAS you could say the Land of the Dead is sort of a purgatory analog, in that ghosts still have to go through it and are stuck there until they pass a test - except instead of repentance or atonement it’s casting aside their regret and repression so that they can tell their story honestly to the harpies.

Emerged from the underworld and returned to life? Check - not just literally but by reunion with Pan and Kirjava even if they were forever changed by the experience.

#His Dark Materials fandom #hot takes #theology #religion discussion tw #Amber Spyglass spoilers

4 notes · View notes

daes-of-august · 4 years

Text

Thoughts on Forms

Been a while since I posted anything here.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the forms Cairo takes and how I relate to them. The main forms he takes is that of a cheetah, belgian rabbit, sokoke cat, and dumbo rat. While all of these animals mean something to me personally, behavior wise, only the cheetah and sokoke cat really relate to who I am as a person.

idk, I’m just thinking out loud. I don’t really believe he’ll actually “settle” in the way that Pullman daemons do, mostly because I think that people are forever changing, and it’s hard to capture the nuances of a person’s character through one specific animal.

I would very much like to know the handful of animals that do best represent my soul, though, so I’m diving into the daemon analysis pages. Cairo and I agree that I still lean mostly toward cats, but we’re also looking into martens, various deer-like species, and a few birds of prey. Wish us luck I guess?

#daemon #daemonism

16 notes · View notes

firstginger · 1 year

Note

Hello! I hope this essay of a question isn't too long, but boy is it oddly specific.

So my friends had me tell them the things I remind them of (I offhandedly mentioned I keep a Google doc of the things everyone likes or has the same vibes of for gift inspiration when their birthdays roll around. They all emediatly wanted to know their Google doc info.) And each of them realized I associate them with certain animals (totally not because those would definetly be their daemons in another life, surely not. *frantically hides notes*) and they started making their own lists. And unanimously they all gave me the same animal: a hare. Specifically the punchy and uncanny kind, like a jackrabbit.

Slight confusion on my part as I'd always figured I'd be something a little more aggressive or mischievous like a coyote. Having taken the daemon quiz a fair few times, I usually end up getting either a jackal or a cacomistle. A jackrabbit doesn't seem too far out if my wheelhouse, but I'd never considered it.

I guess what I'm asking is, would you be willing to elaborate on why my friends might be getting jackrabbit vibes from me? Is there something I can't see that they are seeing? Like, I'm not upset about it I'm just very confused lol. Just if you have the time, no pressure. Thanks in advance though, I really love your personality quizzes <3

oh what a fun question! i think this goes back to how in the daemon community there's two types of forms: analytical forms and pullman (or symbolic) forms. analytical forms are the type that are most commonly used in online form finding. they take the animal's ecology and "translate" that into human behavior — so from that perspective, your daemon would be an animal that is rather similar to you in how they go through life. in comparison, the pullman form is based on how daemons were originally portrayed in the book. this is form finding based on an animal's associations or the cultural beliefs associated with that animal — in the case of the book's canon, this was largely western european, though modern daemon pullman analyses try to take all cultural associations with the animal into consideration.

a jackrabbit is a great example. someone with a jackrabbit analytical form is going to be introverted, sensitive, competitive, obsessive, somewhat cliquish, and anxious for starters. jackrabbits are rabbits — they're skittish prey animals. compare this to the jackal who's also introverted and close-bonding but is going to have behavior in line with a scavenger, and the cacomistle who's introverted and solitary and has behavior in line with a generalist forager. a large part of analytical analysis is understanding how these behaviors can be attributed to a human and that's where some of the subjectivity in form finding comes in. still, i think there can be some objectivity in, for example, comparing a pack animal to a solitary animal or a prey animal to a scavenger animal. are you someone who's socially cooperative and dependent or someone who's independently-minded? are you someone who's anxious and routine-forming or someone who's bold and spontaneous?

but your friends' observations have an interesting point, in that we often associate the jackrabbit with traits like cunning, luck, speed, and ambition (though rarely productive ambition). the jackrabbit's reputation goes back to different native american and indigenous associations with the hare: many tribes have stories regarding the hare as a light-hearted, clever trickster figure who is often also a teacher to mankind or otherwise a sort of relatable underdog outsmarting predators (see ableegumooch of mi'kmaq folklore, moskim the rabbit of lenape folklore, and the trickster rabbit figure of the cherokee, creek, and other tribes). other tellings of a hare protagonist such as br'er rabbit, aesop's tortoise and the hare, and bugs bunny help cement the stereotype of a long-eared rabbit/hare/jackrabbit as someone who's wily and clever, though can sometimes bite off more than they can chew or otherwise screw themselves over... but ultimately are survivalists who will always return another day. someone with a jackrabbit pullman form is more likely to be someone who's cunning, quick-thinking, curious, insightful, self-assured, and prone to spontaneity if something interests them. punchy and uncanny does describe them well, but these associations are quite different from a skittish prey animal!

the jackrabbit also has other non-personality associations your friends might be picking up on as well. the jackrabbit is a staple of the american desert and great basin, so if you're from those regions, it may invite comparison. if you're a runner or talk quick or are otherwise speedy it may remind others of a jackrabbit as well. and then of course i'm sure many of us are familiar with friends pinning us as an animal we like or own... the number of times i've been associated with horses because i rode them (and collect art of them...) is so high, though i don't think my personality or vibe is particularly horse-ish at all!

i think my ideal would be having a form that fits me in both regards: an animal whose behavior is similar to mine, but also something my friends would peg me as. i feel like we need an association of daemians who are happy to be super specific about the vibes we give off — i feel like my normal friends will compare me to something like a dog, and then i'll get weird about comparing them a black-casqued hornbill or a chital deer haha.

hope this helped answer your question!

#personal #daemonism #form finding

21 notes · View notes