#rankheresy

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Based off one of your podcast episodes where you think Dumbledore killed Flamel, do you think Dumbledore would kill any wizard who found out different methods to being immortal?

Anon's referring to an @rankheresy episode by me and @therealvinelle (specifically this one)

TL;DL: @therealvinelle and I concluded that Dumbledore had killed Flamel before the events of Philosopher's Stone.

The thing is, that wasn't why we theorized Dumbledore killed him.

Dumbledore and Mortality

First, a bit about Dumbledore and death.

Dumbledore has some major hangups on death. To be fair, we all do, but Albus especially seems to in part because he seems to have obsessed over it in his youth as well as at his canonical age.

We know he chased after immortality as a young man and this concept of Master of Death. We know that upon gaining the cloak from the Potters, as well as the ring, he did get weird about it. Mostly, though, it's how he talks about death.

Dumbledore's often reiterating that death is a natural occurrance, which yes it is, but he romanticizes it. Death is the next great adventure, death is like going to sleep after a long hard day's work, it's a rest, a new path, and something we should look forward to when our time comes. And true, he's saying this to a child and of course sugar-coating things, and he's trying to explain why Tom's obsession with death and his horcruxes are unnatural, but it's still very strange things to say.

And the feeling I get, at least, is that Dumbledore is trying to convince himself that he's okay with death. Especially in book six where his mortality is catching up with him, he has much to prepare, and yet he's not quite prepared for when the end catches up to him despite himself.

This is a guy who thinks about death a lot and why he's no doubt convinced himself that Flamel, who he views as a good man, was totally okay with him and his wife dying after he's been not dying for several centuries because Dumbledore swears a Dark Lord who's been dead for ten years is after the stone.

But Dumbledore doesn't seem to view Flamel with contempt in Philosopher's Stone, or even all that misguided, just someone who after a long life had realized it was finally time and accepted it gracefully because the stone was very nearly stolen thanks to Dumbledore's bizarre obstacle course he set up in the basement of his school.

(This is where @therealvinelle and I come in, because we call foul on Flamel rolling over to die that easily when there have surely been thieves in the past, or letting Dumbledore do any of Philosopher's Stone without any intervention whatsoever and then supposedly quietly dying while Harry's passed out and agreeing to smash the stone after all that work to protect it.)

What Dumbledore is Not

Dumbledore clearly views Tom as bad in not accepting mortality, in murdering others to ensure his own immortality (rightly so, that's a very bad thing to do, as is splitting your soul apart even if it didn't require murder) but, and as weird as it is for me to defend Dumbledore, he's not itching at the bit to destroy Tom for that alone. That's just a facet to him of why Tom has gone too far and is unsalvageable and must be destroyed. It's a character flaw to Dumbledore, but one of many and not the main issue for all he brings it up quite often.

Dumbledore never gives off vibes of getting rid of or killing anyone who ever looks into immortality. Flamel, if @therealvinelle and I are correct, was left alone for many years when Dumbledore was personally acquainted with him and his wife until 1991. If there's other people who have similar immortality granting things, then we at least don't hear about them canonically.

Depending who they are, Dumbledore might view them as misguided, fearful, or else hold them in contempt but he's not a serial killer who's planning to hunt down people and murder them for doing things he doesn't like.

But the short answer is no, I don't think Dumbledore would do that.

[therealvinelle]

i understand yalls headers now. me trying to explain to other hp fans your heretic metas like you see, theres canon backing for this, it makes sense,

If it makes you feel better, I don't talk about this outside of my blog or @rankheresy. "Akshually Harry was hoodwinked in Deathly Hallows and Voldemort must still be alive, let me get into this horcrux by horcrux. I have Deathly Hallows memorized" is rarely a winning subject.

Look, @thecarnivorousmuffinmeta, people having trouble!

[thecarnivorousmuffinart]

so, while I was listening your and vinelle's magnificent podcast, I made a couple of drawings! not exactly fanarts, but I decided to send them anyway in hope that they'll convey how strongly I love your metas and fanfiction lol. you have such an interesting way to look at fandoms, and I feel immensely grateful that you guys share it with us

this one meant to be a fanart to the prologue of The Man Who Would Be King, but I got a bit sidetracked. now, I'm not sure it can qualify as one

this one is renesmee and her horrifying gift cosplaying together as madonna and the child

this one shows my completely imaginative plot of Bella trying to create some good new year memories with renesmee after last year disastrous volturi visit. the photos look appropriately eerie

Oh my god! This is beautiful and I'm so flattered anon (and amazed the podcast induces fan art of any kind).

Look, @therealvinelle, praise for @rankheresy, blogs, fanfics and fan art!

[threebooksoneplot]

My humble little request for @therealvinelle to be a guest on your podcast

👉🏿🥹👈🏿

we'll never say never about anyone or anything, guests included, but right now our guests are all booked through the end of this year/book/season! (we schedule/record several episodes in advance so we've got a decent buffer/backlog in case of events like "shannon being busy for all of december and also moving" or when we both got covid at various times last year, etc.)

we've heard nothing but glowing reviews for @rankheresy. both we and Vinelle seem to be frequently recced each other's work, so clearly we're all doing something right!! high fives all around

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

why was diary riddle seemingly so different and more sentient than other horcruxes (asking from a watsonian pov - obviously from a doylist pov jkr probably just didn’t plan or think things thru that well)

Well, that's an @rankheresy episode draft actually (no, really, it's been in our drafts for ages) but for now a teaser: were they horcruxes?

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Did you watched dune movies, what are your thoughts on it, do you think they are faithful to books? Do we have a chance to see Uncle Death or Lily in Arrakis?

Actually, @therealvinelle and I have decided this is @rankheresy content. I have way too much to say about Dune, the books, the adaptations that exist, etc. and it's probably better in that format.

As for crossovers with Lily and the Art of Being Sisyphus given I put out The Heart of the World (@janedoewrites) I've pretty much put aside anything in the "Lily" realm.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

do you think the story of what went down with tom sr and merope that we hear from dumbledore is true or did he take creative liberties? it's a bit different from what tom recounts in book 4 but tom may not know the real story is suppose.

The thing is, Dumbledore admits to that.

Before Dumbledore tells Harry any of these memories, he gives a hilarious disclaimer that goes about like this "Harry, technically, everything I'm about to say is based on nothing, absolutely nothing, but I have vibes and I believe in those vibes so I'm certain it happened this way, but it's based on nothing".

He gives the few things he knew happened, usually known facts/how he acquired the memory in the first place and then.... everything else he makes up.

As it is, in this case, he even admits while giving his theory that he really doesn't know. Dumbledore phrases it in terms of "perhaps he was riding by her house, grew thirsty and stopped, and she offered him a drink that was doused with love potion". It's a bunch of 'perhaps' strung together into a sentence. Dumbledore doesn't know it was love potions, he just throws it out there as an option, he doesn't know how she dosed him or how she brewed it even. He's not even sure how she had the magic to do such things for all he has a theory that Merope was so sad before her father and brother were imprisoned that she couldn't use magic, got freedom and happiness so she could use it after, then got sad again and so couldn't when Tom Sr. left her.

Dumbledore knows jack shit.

It's just he tells it in such a way that, even though he gave Harry a disclaimer, Harry and the audience forgets he knows jack shit.

Now, this doesn't mean Tom knows either, how could he? But does Dumbledore know for certain? God no.

Savvy blog readers will remember the time that Vinelle and I on @rankheresy concluded that it wasn't even Tom who killed his father at all.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

hilarious to me that jkr set out to write a straighforward good vs evil story but almost all of the oppressed nonhuman/part human creatures in the hp universe side with voldemort bc they think he'll be at least marginally (or potentially much better) for them than the established order bc of how badly they are oppressed by the current government in wizarding society. and the implications of that...are not really explored.

In @rankheresy book club we're currently reading Deathly Hallows and it's very... noticeable is the word I suppose that Harry when meeting with these oppressed creatures (Kreacher, Dobby, Griphook) offers them nothing.

Not even a "I will try really hard to change the laws". Just nothing. And they sure do nothing once Harry and friends are in charge.

It's beautiful.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

can bassilisk venom actually destroy a horcrux. per book 7 to destroy one you have to put it beyond magical repair. but there is an antidote to basilisk venom.

This was discussed at length by me and @therealvinelle in an @rankheresy episode.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

I've just watched the most recent Rank Heresy video. Overall, I liked it. Admittedly, it did feel like I was listening to a couple of tinfoil hat wearing crackpots ranting and raving on the street, but I get the feeling that is the general vibe you're both going for.

@rankheresy

Anon.

The icon is someone wearing a tinfoil hat.

I'm glad you liked it but if that's not your thing it's probably not your show.

[therealvinelle]

you guys have such beautiful brains. i love the idea that the grey lady is actually just a notorious con woman. i fully accept this as canon. it explains why no one (aside from luna, which tracks) talks to her. this allows me to imagine that a) after things had calmed down, harry started telling people that he got vital information from the grey lady, and everyone was like "dude" and b) tom riddle was conned into putting a bunch of time and effort into searching for a obscure magical "artefact" in a highly unstable part of the soviet bloc. he eventually clued in, bought and modified a dollar store tiara, and took the job interview at hogwarts specifically to gain entrance to the castle and throw it at her.

Anon has listened to the newest episode of @rankheresy!

Beautiful theory, anon. And thanks for the praise! The Grey Lady lost me at "the Bloody Baron was hopelessly in love with me and killed himself, that's why he carries those chains forever."

Look, @theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin, praise!

[therealvinelle]

listened to the rankherasy episode and that is so genius about the sword not having destroyed the stone. but also even if the resurection stone WAS destroyed by the stone dumbledore would totally enchant it to show harry fake visions to kill himself.

Glad you like the episode!

I'm not so sure Dumbledore would feel the need to go to that step, and the ghosts of Lily, James, Sirius, and Remus seem to act exactly as described in the Tale of the Three Brothers. It's an incredibly complex enchantment too:

The stone knows who's dead, even when Harry himself doesn't. He's surprised to see Remus Lupin there. How does the stone know that?

The stone gives different personalities that seemingly fit who the people it's projecting once were (or at least what the user expects them to have been like). They want the same thing, but go about it differently

It appears to know things about these people Harry doesn't, ref. Remus talking about his dead wife and surviving son

It knows what Harry is about to do, why, and how to best encourage he go through with it

It's possible Dumbledore did this, though @theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin and I have the extremely heretic, future @rankheresy episode's thought that Dumbledore's primary strength as a wizard is knowledge, not power or talent. I simply doubt Dumbledore could do this, and when (as is discussed more in depth in the @rankheresy episode about Tom Riddle's horcruxes) the sword of Gryffindor doesn't appear to actually have ever been in contact with basilisk venom, I think the original enchantment on that stone survived Dumbledore hacking at it just fine.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Do you think Tom Riddle might have created the horcruxes a lot later than the fandom presumes from the information we have? We don't actually know how recent the murder has to be for the creation of a horcrux and the actual process involved. I just learned that apparently many dark wizards aside from Voldemort and Herpo the Foul have actually tried creating horcruxes but none succeeded as it seems to be a very difficult thing to pull off. Taking that into consideration, I think it'd make a lot more sense for a guy who spent like 10 years in Albania studying dark magic to be able to create a horcrux than a 16 year old after asking his potions professor about it and reading about it in a book.

The "Tom Riddle was so evil, he created his first horcrux when he was 16" thing feeds perfectly into Dumbledore's narrative and goals but I keep thinking about Tom Riddle getting increasingly obsessed with making a horcrux as he gets older because he's been working at Borgin and Burkes for several years, has hardly any chances in the wizarding world, no qualifications for the muggle world and feels like life is slipping through his fingers while he's just suffering.

This is really a @rankheresy idea if there ever was one so I think I'm going to punt a large response off there.

What I will say though, without any explanation, is the following:

We have no confirmation how many horcruxes Tom made and how many items assumed horcruxes are in fact horcruxes

Of those horcruxes we have confirmed, we only have one that gives a somewhat firm idea of when the horcrux was made, all others have a time at which they might have first been made but this is unlikely to be the exact date

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

How lucky do you think Dumbledore was that the diary horcrux basically landed in his lap? When he's giving Harry his expert analysis on Tom Riddle and what he would make a horcrux, he concludes Tom would favor objects that are opposite to the diary. He thinks Tom Riddle despises his muggle name (its embossed on the diary) and that he would like super special magical objects (its a plain muggle diary). Would Dumbledore or Harry have ever figured out the diary if that was one they still needed to get?

Anon, there is an @rankheresy episode in the editing queue which will address this question and many more. But the bottom line is "I don't think they figured out anything".

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

maybe the locket didn't possesses umbridge because it wasn't actually a horcrux. it could have been a powerfully cursed dark object without being a horcrux.

You make an entirely possible point that will eventually be discussed in an upcoming @rankheresy episode

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

hi, I've been listening to your podcast (🖤) and I love the theory of TMR being innocent of Smith's murder. Recently I've gone to a museum and there was a collector's apothecary cabinet displayed: with mini jars of everything from perfectly innocuous items to poisons. I can totally imagine Hephzibah owned one, I thought you might appreciate the visual

Looking forward to the next episode, bye)))

link: https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/BK-1956-44

Anon's referring to @rankheresy (look, @therealvinelle, praise!

I do, though it's worth that @therealvinelle, as a Christie fan, is big on "English gardens/households during this period are full of death and poison"