#resourceful odysseus

[smilerri]

people really have the audacity to claim odysseus isnt the most unlikable character in the entire odyssey?? when his whole personality is being a lying bitch?? yeah its funny sometimes but he still sucks

[hollenka99]

One thought that persists in the last couple days is

Did they not keep the tails?

Because like... if you are constantly at sea with little access to food then surely you wouldn't pass up on the opportunity to fill your pitifully empty food stores, right? I imagine the crew is surviving off fish but that may be harder to come by since Poseidon is mad at them and everything.

So if you're going around chopping sirens in half to prove a point then why not keep the parts that seem edible? The tails are probably akin to fish and I'm guessing the top half may not be too far off a human's internal composition. They captured a fair amount of them too so there would likely be enough to possibly stretch it out past Scylla. After which there's 6 fewer mouths to feed, meaning slightly larger rations for the others. Even keeping nothing but the tails would have been better than nothing.

Listen, all I'm saying is that maybe if they had siren jerky on board, somebody wouldn't have felt so starved he insisted on divine steak.

[greekmythcomix]

Greek Myth Comix explains the Odyssey - Book 1

The whole of Book 1 of the Odyssey in an (educational) comic / video

[maenage-a]

no thoughts (not into coherent written form, at least), only this quote from a book i'm reading: "he would gather my weaknesses up and set them with the rest of his collection. he kept them on his person as other men keep their knives."

[ilions-end]

i'm listening to the elizabeth vandiver great courses lectures (my comfort audios <3) and i'm currently on her series on the odyssey. i love whenever she points out assumptions a modern reader might unknowingly bring with them when engaging with ancient texts.

one of her examples is how challenging it is in modernity to fully grasp how impossible penelope's position is. she's a good, dutiful woman with a husband who is M.I.A, but has no way of knowing odysseus' status, or which duties she's obligated to pursue. if her husband is currently alive, she has an absolute duty to preserve his household and herself until he returns. if odysseus is dead, she has an equally absolute duty to swiftly remarry and dedicate herself to a new household. she doesn't live in a society where she can live alone as a widow (or potential widow), only as a wife of someone living.

and i'm thinking about how our perception of her situation is also shaped by how we know odysseus is alive and will return. there's also the fact that the suitors are rude and dangerous -- we certainly don't want her to end up with any of them. so the trickery with the weaving of the shroud comes across as ingenious and morally justified to us... but penelope can't be sure. if odysseus had been dead, the shroud trick would be doubly damning on a societal and moral level -- both for delaying her sacred obligation to form a new family, and for using her feminine skills and resources on her "previous" family (since the shroud was made for laertes).

penelope is trapped in moral limbo throughout most of the odyssey, where every action she takes (or doesn't take) is either absolutely correct and conscientious OR horrifically immoral and shameful, and the key piece that determines which is which is lost at sea somewhere.

[avelera]

thesis about the sea peoples you say? may i request an infodump about the sea peoples?

Heya!

So, basically in college (undergraduate) I got really obsessed with the questions around the Collapse of the Aegean Bronze Age, mostly because I wanted to set my big Magnum Opus historical fiction novel in that time, and the deeper I dug into the rabbit hole the more it appeared that no one, absolutely no one, actually knows why the civilizations around the Mediterranean all fell from a state of pretty sophisticated internationally-trading civilizations to literal Dark Ages (all except for Egypt which was substantially weakened and never really recovered), all at once around 1200-1100 BCE.

The Sea Peoples are the names of the only contemporary (Egyptian) account we have that names who might have been responsible if this collapse was due to an invasion. It's a popular theory because a viking-style invasion is a much sexier reason for a civilization to collapse so we all gather around it like moths to flame. But the thing is, there's a lot of contradictory evidence for and against and shading that hypothesis.

Suffice to say, literally no actually knows what happened and almost every answer comes up, "Some combination of these things, probably?"

But what makes the Collapse even more interesting from a modern perspective is that if there was a historical Trojan War (and I think there was) as fictionalized in the Iliad and the Odyssey (and Song of Achilles, for the Tumbrlistas), then it would have taken place within a generation of the entire civilization that launched the Trojan War crumbling to dust.

So like, if you're Telemachus, your dad Odysseus fights in the Trojan War, some even manage to get home, and then like... everything goes to shit. Catastrophically. And doesn't recover for 400 years.

Seriously, they lost the written word, like how to actually write things down and read them and it took 400 years to get it back. That's how fucked shit got during the Collapse of the Bronze Age.

So my thesis was asking: what if these two things were related? What if the Trojan War either led to the Collapse or it was part of the Collapse or it was a result of the Collapse? Because the timeline is so unknown and muddled that it really could be any of those and again, that's if the Trojan War isn't entirely fictional (which I don't think it is, but many academics disagree, it used to be a whole thing up until Schliemann dug it up, and many doubted it was ever a historical event even after that.)

Ok, so at the risk of writing 75 pages on this again, let me just say:

My conclusion (more of a hypothesis proposal ultimately since there are so many gaps in our knowledge) was that the Trojan War took place before the Collapse of the Bronze Age. But, it might have been launched in response to a wider breakdown in trades routes and resources, causing the Greeks to launch the campaign basically as a bid to replenish their own coffers because they were getting squeezed by what they didn't know was the first rumblings of a global domino effect.

Therefore, since taking out Troy didn't solve those larger trends and forces, they all went home and then got slammed by the REAL problem, which was all the people who had been displaced from further away by this rolling drought or invasion or whatever that was disrupting these delicate international trade routes.

But the Greeks might have been part of the Sea Peoples too! Our only record of the Sea Peoples is from the Egyptians in a highly propagandistic text which makes them sound like this big fearsome foe but that might have been because saying, "We slaughtered a bunch of desperate refugees at our border who were looking for shelter," didn't sound as cool. If the Greeks (or Achaeans or Ahhiyawa) got swept up in this slow-rolling collapse/displacement of people, then they absolutely could have been among those refugees who crashed against the shores of Egypt.

A lot of my evidence was based on looking at how Troy was sacked (it was stripped literally down the nails and there was a lot of evidence of a long-term siege, like what we read about in the Iliad) vs. how Mycenae (Agamemnon's city) or Pylos (King Nestor's city) was sacked, where they were burned and stuff was stolen but they weren't stripped, it looks more like a standard looting hit-and-run type thing. Which led me to believe that it was different turmoil that rocked Mycenae and Pylos than what led to the sacking of Troy, despite the fact these things happened within about 20 years of each other. (Helen being a made-up reason for a resource-driven war would only be the oldest trick in the book, as far as propaganda goes, after all.)

But really, the craziest detail I'll leave you with is: we just don't know! And then it gets weirder. Because the Hittites fell at the same time so the Hittites scholars say, "Nah, the Sea Peoples weren't Hittites, they were probably Greeks." And the GREEK scholars say, "It wasn't us, it was probably the Hittites or someone else. " and the EGYPTIAN scholars say, "Yeah it was someone north of Egypt, maybe the Hittites or the Greeks." and the LEVANT scholars say, "It wasn't from the Levant, we know what was going on there, it has to be from somewhere else."

Literally every single possible source of the Sea Peoples has the scholars who specialize in that location saying it's not them and it must be the guy next door.

It's maddening!

And then there's a big ol' gap around Bulgaria and the Black Sea because, oh yeah, the Soviet Union forbade archaeology in those areas to quash any local pride so those places that were behind the Iron Curtain are decades behind on scholarship that would allow them to say, "Oh hey, it was actually us! Yeah, the invaders came from Bulgaria and got pushed down by a famine." or something to that effect.

We also have some histories from the time saying that the Sons of Heracles returned not long after the Trojan War to lay Greece to waste! And it's really evocative and sounds like it fits what we've got of all these burned cities that happened right after Troy fell! Except that's in doubt now too!

The latest theory is that it was climate change that led to a massive drought. You can read about it in the latest and most popular book on the subject, 1177 BCE which I highly recommend because if it had existed when I wrote my thesis, I wouldn't have had to write it.

But I disagree with the conclusion! Or rather, I'm skeptical. Because very decade, the problems of the day have been hypothesized as being the cause of the Collapse. Like, in the 60s, there was a theory that maybe it was internal strife around a labor strike, like the French Revolution. And y'know when there's a world war, they think it's an invasion. And there was a theory that it was 'cuz of an earthquake (I think that one is nonsense, Mediterranean civilizations famously bounce back quickly from earthquakes.) And now that climate change is on our mind, I'm a little weary to see that it's the new theory because it feels way too much like we're just projecting our problems onto this giant question mark.

Was climate an aspect! I think so! I think it might have contributed to the break down in trade routes that made everyone in the Mediterranean really stressed out and hostile and warlike and led to a lot of displacement. I'm not sure if it's the only reason though and I think the book just kinda reiterates everyone else saying, "I think it was this but in the end, we just don't know, and it was probably a lot of things." which we've known for ages so it's just repeating all the same conclusions. *sigh*

... Like I said, I wrote my thesis on this so yeah, I could go on for a while lol.

[nonbinarylocalcryptid]

Astyanax takes another step towards the reconciliation with Odysseus, long snippet ahead, grab some popcorn

One cannot be raised by Odysseus and not ended up being resourceful. In the following week after finding himself alone in Trojan territory, Astyanax had managed to do a few things.

Using the curtains from the palace, he made a cape and something to cover his face while he scouted the ruins filled of dus. This way he managed to find ink and paper, which he use to let letters in the main doors of what was the city of Troy once before.

With the longest stick he could find, he draw in the wet sand of the beach the map of his travels, one he has always known from memory, and with the memory of Eurylochus' voice, he used the stars to situate Troy in said map.

He didn't build a refuge, the weather allowed him to sleep at the beach, covering himself with the curtains once more. Food wasn't a problem either, after sharpening his stick, it was a matter of patience and stabbing some fishes in the water at the shore.

The little ghost even made a bow, rough and rudimentary, but it served it purpose.

The problem came when he thought about leaving Troy. Building a raft wasn't a plan, it won't survive the distance he wanted to cover, and he didn't know if he could build another later on. Every small boat he had managed to find was rotten, so that was out of the question too.

And of course, he didn't even think once about asking the gods for help, cynic as he was of them. Pity that they didn't think the same.

An owl had been following from afar the whole week. He didn't have any interest in befriending Athena, nor he wanted to be her enemy, but the owl couldn't be blame for being the goddess' puppet, so Astyanax let him half of every fish he captured.

The bird was actually a good listener.

"Shouldn't you be doing anything else? Stalking me can't be that funny, I'm just a boy!"

Sometimes he commented on the situation, puzzled.

"What about helping Odysseus? He's in a lot of shit right now. Calypso has only been nice to me, but that doesn't mean she's nice to him...look, I'm worried about him, ok? All alone in that island with that woman and his luck? Not a good combination."

The owl never answered of course, but in exchange for his kindness, the bird guided him to a box of candles, deep in the palace. The boy brought the opened box to his nose, lowering the cloth that covered his face, and marveled at the delicate smell that came from the candles. He knew exactly what to do with them.

He went to the pile of rotten wood that stood in the main place, as he has been doing every time he needed to light up some fire. The wood that caused once Troy's fall was now keeping him dry and warm, there was something poetic in that, and in a way, Odysseus was taking care of him again, despite the original purpose of the wooden horse.

Astyanax looked for a corner of the place where the wind won't disturb the flame of a candle, and there, he light up one of them and make his offer. A leaf with water, a shiny seashell, a rock with the colour of the Moon, a few drops of blood and a piece of his hair.

Yes, he was a cynic, but he was no atheist. Defying the gods was one thing, but having been raised by a religious man, he would never renounce them.

"I pray to Artemis, Goddess of the Moon and the hunt, carer of children, may her bless this bow and protect me in my deeds. I pray to Athena, Goddess of Wisdom, may her stop me from succumbing to Ares and the nonsense of vengeance. I pray to Hermes, God of Messages and Travelers, may him..."

A laugh interrupted him.

"You know, I'm already here, you may as well ask me in person."

Astyanax stood and turned to look at Hermes.

"I thought someone would show up", he admitted, "but I wasn't expecting you."

"Oh, you know me, I like surprises."

"Do you now." The boy let the candle burning and the box next to it. Their purpose was fulfilled. "What can I do for you, herald of the gods?"

He walked to the beach, Hermes following behind.

"Shouldn't I be asking that question, my friend? Look at you! Leaving messages here and there! Yelling at Zeus to spread your word! I'm curious, whose the recipient? Who should receive your words of defiance?"

"They're not of defiance."

"Then what?"

"Hope. That's my message to every Trojan survivor and to the gods," Astyanax look into the distance, lost in thought, "Troy will rise again, that's my message. But before that..."

He slide downwards through a sandy dune, moving towards the shore.

"...before that I must get Odysseus home, I have nothing without him, no family and no purpose. I can't rebuild Troy in my own and I can't let him alone no longer with Calypso." He stared at his map, calculating distances in his mind. "I must get back to him quickly."

"That's a great plan, what a shame he's no longer at Calypso's anymore."

"Wait what." Astyanax stopped in his track, bewildered. "What do you mean?"

Another laugh came from Hermes.

"I mean what I said, friend! He's at the sea as we talk, and in great danger."

"Of course he is," said the boy as he rolled his eyes, "it wouldn't be him if he wasn't."

He looked at his map again, thinking.

"I'm too far away from Calypso's," he murmured to himself, "I'm closer to Ithaca, unbelievable. No raft would survive the trip but...you are still here."

Always the jokester, Hermes mirrored his calculating face, but he was smiling.

"You still haven't asked me for anything."

"You are going to make me beg?"

"Beg? Who do you think I am? Do I look like Zeus to you? Nah, you want something that I can give, all you have to do is ask."

"No tricks?"

"No tricks."

Astyanax stared at the sea, knowing that beyond the horizon, beyond Ithaca, was his father.

"I want a way to reach him in time, nothing else."

Hermes clapped his hands.

"A thoughtful wish, that's for sure!" He bowed, still smiling. "I came here with something for you, you know? It's good to know that you also want it."

Reaching into his satchel, Hermes took out...

"Wait, really? A pair of your winged sandals?" Astyanax was shocked.

"What? You don't want them?" Hermes laughed.

"I didn't say that! I-I... it's because I know what it means."

With his free hand, Hermes ruffled Astyanax's hair. The boy blushed, fast.

"Aww, he's shy because he is under my protection now!" The god didn't doubt in mocking him. "Come on, put them on! They must be exactly your size."

"Y-yes, of course."

"Hm, they look good. Ok, walk a little, yes, now a little sprint...they suit you! I don't need them back, but use them wisely!"

Astyanax nodded, still red as a tomato.

"And because I'm awesome and those are my sandals after all, not only they are disguised as normal shoes, they also light up if you stomp your foot! Cool, isn't it?"

"Really cool," agreed the kid, "you are so random, I love it."

"Glad to hear that! It's part of my charm, my friend. And last, but not least..." Hermes winked, before handing him two sticks. "Be careful with them, have you ever heard of 'don't play with fire'?"

Astyanax grabbed the sticks, but Hermes didn't let go, still playful, but now serious.

"These sticks, when rubbed together, always make fire, I don't need to warn you about the dangers of fire, do I?"

"I'm aware of the danger."

"Good! Now, for my last little gift... don't you have some kind of rope?"

The boy, surprised, pointed at the curtains he took from the palace the first day he found himself at Troy.

"I didn't find any rope, so I cut some stripes from the curtains and then braided them."

"That's perfect, now, gimme gimme gimme...good, now give me your haaaand...yes yes yes, there, a nice friendship bracelet!"

"Mmm...what for"

"To find that father of yours, of course! You just have to ask."

Astyanax looked at Hermes, then looked at the rough braid that was now around his wrist, long hanging ends and all, and decided it was worth a try.

"Where's Odysseus of Ithaca?"

In a heartbeat, the loose ends starting floating, no, pointing...

"Great! So I just have to follow...and fly there." He said, remembering his new sandals. "The last thing I told him was that I hated him...he must think I abandoned him. Thank you, Hermes, how can I repay you?"

"Repay me? What for? Don't be boring, my friend, that's more than enough."

"Boring? I'm the righteous heir to the Trojan throne, I don't think I can be boring."

"That's the spirit, friend, good luck out there!"

And then a flying pre-teenager with two fire-sticks and a lot of self confidence aids Odysseus against Charybdis

Also, Astyanax in this point of his life:

[k-nayee]

Wife to the Winds Epic: The Musical | ii

wc: 3.5k a/n: yeah I'm sorry y'all. I'm, a slow updater/editor. But I'm getting faster and better! Here's the animation for this part

Traveler M.List

Previous | Next

ˏ⸉ˋ‿̩͙‿̩̩̥͙̽‿̩͙ˏ⸉ˋ‿̩͙‿̩̩̥͙̽‿̩͙ˏ⸉ˋ‿̩͙‿̩̩̥͙̽‿̩͙.·͙*̩̩͙˚̩̥̩̥*̩̩̥͙　✩　*̩̩̥͙˚̩̥̩̥*̩̩͙‧͙ .‿̩̥̩‿̩̩̥͙̽‿̩͙ˊ⸊ˎ‿̩̥̩‿̩̩̥͙̽‿̩͙ˊ⸊ˎ‿̩̥̩‿̩̩̥͙̽‿̩͙ˊ⸊ˎ

recap

"You truly believe you can ensure my safe passage home? After everything?"

"With all my heart..."

|

|

The salty tang of the sea clung to your hair as you followed Odysseus back to the creaking ships. The satchel against your hip jostled with every step, containing all of your life ever since the ambush of your village.

Midway through readying the ship for their long-awaited return, the men around fell silent as Odysseus approached.

Murmurs rippled through the crew as they watched their battle-scarred leader approach, a stranger by his side.

Reaching the center of the gathered crowd, Odysseus raised a hand for silence. A hush fell over, their gazes flitting between you and their captain.

"This one!" he boomed, aura carrying the authority of a seasoned leader, "is under my is under my protection. Do not lay hand upon her, show her the respect you may give to me."

Glances flicker towards you and stare intently, their faces etched with curiosity and a hint of something...more.

What it could be? You don't know, but you refuse to show it. Even riddled with fear and wary, you held your head high, posture radiating confidence.

That's when the whispers reached your ears: "A goddess, perhaps?" one muttered. "Sent to test us," another added, a hint of reverence lacing his voice.

'Wait...what?' You blink at this. Looking closer, you realize they are staring at you in awe, not lust.

You steal a peek at Odysseus, but his face remained impassive, any amusement he might've felt hidden.

'A goddess huh?' Your lips twitch, a snort of disbelief threating to escape your lips. Seems Odysseus initial shock towards you wasn't a one man reaction.

"Men!" attention is brought once more to the King of Ithaca.

"We have weathered storms. We have battled and sacrificed. Yet, victory lies within reach. Today," he brings a fist up to the heavens. "we begin our journey home!"

Cheers erupted from them, collective roars of relief and anticipation.

The rest of the day was a blur of activity: sails unfurled, oars readied for rowing—image of home ever the motivator.

Days bled into weeks, the endless blue horizon and rocking of the ship becoming your new normal.

The crew remained wary, interactions limited to curt greetings and exchanges. Your only solace came from occasional conversations with Odysseus and surprisingly, both Eurylochus and Polites.

Speaking of which, a tense discussion was brewing near the stern. Eurylochus, his weathered face etched with worry, was locked in a heated debate with the king.

"Six hundred mouths to feed," Eurylochus stressed, frustration coloring his voice, "and our supplies are dwindling! We may not make it far, we are running on fumes!"

Polites, ever the diplomat, step forth in hopes of calming the second in command. "We'll find a way, Eurylochus. Odysseus is a resourceful man—"

"Look!" Their conversation was abruptly interrupted by Odysseus himself, his gaze fixed on the sky.

You follow his line of sight, spotting a flurry of birds flying into the distance. Your brow raise at that, catching on to his proposal.  

"We watch where they go, and there we will hunt for food." Giving a firm nod, Eurylochus began giving new orders.

════════════════*.·:·.☽✧ ✦ ✧☾.·:·.*═════════════════

Hours had pass, soon the Sun going down leaving the stars and moon as your only source of light.

"Captain!" Polities' cry breaks you out of your daily/night inventory checkup. "There in the distance: I see a light faintly glowing."

You quickly stuff everything back into your bag, rushing over to stand next to the Greek warrior and see for yourself.

He turns and gives you a bright grin, lightly bouncing on his feet. "Maybe it's a village lighting a fire? Who knows! They might even share some food."

"No." Odysseus shakes his head. "No, somethings not right. I see fire...but there's no smoke."

Eurylochus scoffed. "Let's raid the place and be done with it!" he barked, his hunger overriding caution.

Odysseus narrowed his eyes. "No," he countered, his voice firm. "There must be another way, one that doesn't involve bloodshed."

"Captain you can't be serious, we don't know of the danger's ahead! A—"

"Just!...just give me until sunrise," Taking a glance at the awaiting crew, his voice lower in attempt to quell their bloodthirst knowing just speaking of potential fighting would set them off. "And if we don't return, burn this place to the ground."

Odysseus turns to Polities, gesturing towards the approaching island. "Polites, gear up. We'll scout ahead."

"Yes sir!"

"I'm coming with you!"

The mortal king's head snapped towards you, frown creasing his brow. "Absolutely not."

Your voice rose in protest. "B-but I can help! I'm a fast learner. My skills..."

"There will be no debate," he states, voice leaving no room for argument. "The men are weary. They need their rest. You will stay and watch over little Ajax."

Anger welled in your chest as your teeth gritted. You storm off, the sting of rejection burning in your eyes.

Being reduced to babysitting(once again) felt like an insult to your abilities. You couldn't help but pout in disappointment as you watch the two sail step off the ship, crossing your arms with a glare.

The rest of the night crawled by, the time made longer from your simmering resentment.

It was sunrise when Odysseus and Polities returned, their faces were painted with apprehension.

"We've been told of a cave with food in the east!" he said "enough to last us on our journey back to Ithaca, even extra to spare."

You perk up at the news as men were called to arms. Pushing your way into the forming group, you stand before Odysseus who releases a heavy sigh upon seeing your wide grin. 

"Perhaps I can help assess the situation? My knowledge of—"

"We have enough help," he holds up a hand, silencing you with narrowed eyes. "You stay here with Ajax. Guard duty."

You bite your tongue to keep your anger from saying something disrespectful.

Taking a deep breath, you clasp your hands in a pleading motion. "Please. Just let me help. I-I can gather herbs, o-or even tend wounds..."

"There'll be no wounds," Odysseus says curtly. "We'll be in and out, quick and quiet."

And with that, he and his newly gathered group of men began venturing east in search of food.

Though your fists clenched in fury, you knew better than to disobey Odysseus directly. Instead, you waited, a plan forming in your mind.

It was then upon spotting the ever-cautious Ithacan Eurylochus right as he prepares to leave and catch up with the main group, an idea sparks.

You quickly approach him in determined strides. "Eurylochus, there isn't any proper medical supplies on board. I'm sure the men will gain injuries on their quest for food. And for that, I will need to go and get more herbs." 

Eurylochus barely glanced in your direction, more focused on ensuring his weapons are tied on correctly as he gives a dry chuckle. "Injuries huh? I'm sure medicine won't be needed for a little wound."

"You sure about that?" Offput at the chilly tone of your voice, he looks up only to be taken aback at the emptiness of your gaze. "Even the mightiest of warriors have fallen, crossing the River Styx from a mere scrape."

A tremor of unease ran through Eurylochus. He cleared his throat, the bravado gone

"Alright," he conceded, "but if anything goes wrong..."

"There won't be anything wrong!" you assured him quickly, smile bright and innocent as if you hadn't just traumatized this man.

Gesturing two nearby men to come over, Eurylochus gives you one final look. "Now, I'm trusting you to get what you need and get out. This is Lycus and Alexander; they will watch over you, so stay close. Understood?"

You bobbed your head enthusiastically, already launching into a flurry of excited instructions for your temporary bodyguards.

Eurylochus couldn't help but shake his head and sigh as he turned to leave. "Gods...Odysseus is gonna kill me..."

════════════════*.·:·.☽✧ ✦ ✧☾.·:·.*═════════════════

The moment your feet touched the shore, a thrill shot through you. The air hummed with an unfamiliar energy, and the vibrant foliage swaying in the gentle breeze.

Years of training under your mother's watchful eye kicked in: You recognized the landscape instantly—the lush vegetation, the specific types of trees—everything she taught echoing in your mind.

Unlike Odysseus and his men trampling path, or the impatient stomping of your guards, you carefully navigated the undergrowth with practiced grace; steps light and sure.

Awe filled you as you surveyed the diverse flora. You stopped every so often, meticulously collecting samples in your satchel, murmuring a silent thank you with each pluck.

A memory flickered from your childhood's countless foraging trips; your mother kneeling beside you in a sun-dappled meadow as her hand gently guides yours. "Plants are lives of their own...they are deserving of respect, as would any other being."

Too caught up in reminiscing the past, you miss it when your small group stumbled into a clearing.

It wasn't until you noticed the men behind you stopping themselves did you pay attention to your surroundings.

There, in the center of the area was a group of figures. Their faces were serene, eyes filled with an otherworldly light.

You couldn't help but look at them in awe, tales heard over the years could never measure up to the—

The sound of drawn weapons snap you out of it.

"W-wait!" you cry, darting forward and placing yourself between the armed men and the peaceful Lotus-eaters. "Lower your weapons! They mean no harm."

Lycus, a gruff soldier with a gnarly scar on his cheek to match, scoffs. "They could be a threat, best get rid of them while we can" he grumbles, grip tightening on the hilt of his sword.

Undeterred, you squared your shoulders and met his gaze.

"And as I said, they mean no harm. Pose no danger Look at them!" You gestured towards the Lotus-eaters, some of whom were staring at you with wide-eyes, others seemingly lost in a blissful daydream. "They wouldn't hurt a fly."

A tense silence hung in the air. The men exchanged uncertain glances, unsure of how to react.

 You pressed further, lowering your voice conspiratorially. "Besides. I'm not moving, and Odysseus wouldn't be too happy if I got hurt...now would he?"

The mere mention of the formidable leader caused the men to flinch, images of Odysseus' fearsome wrath flashing in their minds.

Lycus grunts in defeat. "Fine." Reluctantly sheathing his weapon, Alexander follows suit in a mixture of annoyance and grudging acceptance.

The Lotus people seemed captivated by the scene unfolding before them. Their gaze remained transfixed on you, faces filled with a strange mix of curiosity and wonder.

You turn and offer them a warm smile, disarming the Lotus-eaters completely. Their gaze remained fixed on you, captivated not just by your courage and kindness, but also by your beauty. 

Unlike the warriors who had come earlier, bristling with aggression, you approached them with an open heart of respect and curiosity.

And they knew this...from the moment you stepped into the forest, you were being watched after all.

So watchful of those who arrived on their island, the Lotus-eaters had seen everything: your reverence for the plant life, your gentle touch as you collected herbs—it spoke all that was needed.

They felt—no, they knew your heart held no malice. So that's why they had no problem answering any question you asked.

Meanwhile, the men assigned to guard you grow bored from the lack of conflict. They began to talk to each other, attention drifting away from their assigned duty.

After all, you seemed perfectly safe surrounded by these serene beings.

Encouraged by your gentle demeanor, one of the Lotus-eaters hesitantly approach you. He's tall, a crown of woven leaves sitting on top of his curly-hair.

Shy and gentle eyes meet yours. A tranquil smile is etched on his face as he holds out a strange bulbous fruit within his cupped palms, its surface pulsating with an otherworldly glow.

You recognize it instantly for its legendary intoxicating properties, accepting the Lotus fruit with a grateful smile.

Knowing the dangers of the Lotus and its ability to induce a blissful forgetfulness, you carefully stow it away in your satchel.

The Lotus-eaters trill in content, their voices all speaking at once in a wave of pitches.

Straining to hear what they were saying, you slowly make out some of the words drifting through the air.

"...giant..." one voice rasped, low and conspiratorial. "...big as a mountain..." another chimed in.

You pause, a flicker of unease taking root in your stomach. 'Did I just hear that right?...'

"Excuse me," you began, your voice dropping to a hushed tone, "but I couldn't help but overhear something about a... giant?"

They eagerly nod, their excited chatter confirming your worst suspicions.

The Lotus-eater from earlier locks eyes with you. You sense a flicker of concern flash across his glazed eye before murky sereness takes place once more.

He spoke, voice deep and whimsy. "The one-eyed giant in the east? He owns most of the sheep,  calls himself Polyphemus..."

'Giant...sheep...cave...east...that means—' when the pieces clicked in your mind, dread coiled in your gut. Odysseus and his men...trapped with a monstrous cyclops?

This was a disaster.  You needed to get away, and fast.

Glancing at the warriors, still lost in their own world of boredom, a devious plan began to form in your mind.

You turn to the group of Lotus-eaters and lower your voice further.

"Listen," you began, urgency lacing your tone, "there's something really really important I need to get from the cave in the east."

You give a nudge towards the lounging duo guards. "Those men who came with me wouldn't understand. Plus they're not very nice...they've been nothing but mean and unhelpful!"

The Lotus-eaters exchanged glances. Even with their peaceful demeanor they could sense your worry.

"What do you want us to do?" the crowned Lotus-eater asked, his voice laced with alarm.

A large grin stretched across your face.

"Pretend to kidnap me!" you declared, barely able to contain a giggle. "Take me to the cave. There, I can handle the rest."

Their faces broke into wide smiles. Now this was a game they understood.

A Lotus-eater with eyes the color of the sky, clapped her hands in delight. "Oh that sounds fun!"

Before you could even blink, half of the group erupted in a playful ruckus of shouts and laughter; hurling small rocks branched leaves at the warriors.

The men sputtered in confusion as nearby plants and vines creeped down and snatched their weapons, leaving them flabbergasted and unarmed.

"What in Hades—" Alexander exclaims, eyes wide with confusion as his sword was yanked from his grasp by an unseen force.

Now for your part.

Taking a deep breath, you let out the most dramatic, exaggerated scream you could muster. "Help! Oh no! They are taking me! What ever shall I dooooo!"

The distracted guards turn in time to see the other half of the Lotus-eaters scoop you off the ground. You kicked your legs playfully, still crying out in mock distress. "No! Oh no! Let me go! Someone, save meeeeeee!"

As Lotus-eaters began moving to the cave, you grimace when realizing a little too late of your lack of fighting back and reaction to being taken. 'I hope they didn't see right through me. Probably should've acted a little more afraid.'

"H-hey!" You turn back to see Lycus' stressfully looking in your direction as he tries to dodge the sticks and stones, "They're kidnapping her!"

"We must save her!" Alexander chimed in, his panicked filled voice reaching your ears before you disappear into the foliage.

You blink in disbelief at their gullibility. 'Nevermind...'

════════════════*.·:·.☽✧ ✦ ✧☾.·:·.*═════════════════

The further you were carried away from the clearing, the more the sounds of chaos faded into the background.

When you finally reached a safe distance, they gently set you down.

Once brushing off your clothes and looking around you immediately notice the Lotus-eaters brought you to the side of a mountain.

'Where's the cave...?' Confusion flickered across your at face as you try to understand why you where there instead.

Seeing your puzzled expression, the crowned-Lotus eater stepped forward with a gentle smile.

"We brought you to a secret passage," he explains softly, "It's a hidden way that leads to where the sheep are kept. The giant one may find you at the entrance, but this path is safe."

He gestures towards a cluster of branches and vines. Pushing them aside, he reveals a human-sized crack in the mountainside before letting dense foliage fall back over the cleverly concealed hole.

A warm smile spreading across your face at their concern and attempt for your safety. "Thank you!"

Leaning forward, you stand on your toes to place a soft kiss on the forehead of the crowned-Lotus eater who's been your main communicator of the time.

His cheeks flushed a deep scarlet red as he giggled, his companions joining in with flushed faces and shy smiles of their own.

"Good luck," he whimsically mutters, still blushing.

With a nod, you turned towards the secret passageway. Your heart pounds as you carefully push aside the branch and vines and squeezed through the opening.

The rough stone walls loomed around you as distant noises faintly echo in the background.

Air growing cooler and damper with each step as you ventured deeper inside, it wasn't until then did the faint sounds became clearer—multiple voices talking and sounds of sheep scuffling around. 

You pause at the edge of the cave, listening intently.

"Over here!" At the sound of Odysseus' commanding and calm voice, you immediately peek around the corner.

The first thing you're met with is an abundance of food and resources scattered all around: Jugs of wine stacked neatly against the walls, expensive cloths rich in color and texture, to even golden chalices and cups that gleamed in the torch-light cave.

And the sheep.

There were so many! So much, a few roaming ones were so close that you could feel the softness of their wool if you just reach out to tou—

Your nose scrunch up in disgust as a pungent wave of musk, grass, and a hint of manure hits you. 'Ugh...don't smell as cute as they look. That's for sure.'

Looking past the sheep, your body almost instinctively relaxed as you saw no signs of dead bodies or a murderous Cyclops.

Instead, you spotted the King of Ithaca standing alongside his 2nd of command and friend, onlooking as the other men got to work.

"Odysseus! Look at all this food...a-and all of these sheep!" Polites exclaims, you could even make out his bright smile all the way from here. "I can't believe it! This cave, it has all this for us to keep."

Eurylochus stood a few feet away, a begrudging nod of acceptance as he keep watch of the soldiers as they slaughter sheep and prepare to carry them to the ships. "I've gotta hand it to you both, this is quite the treat. More than enough sheep here to feed the entire fleet."

"Hmmm. I'm not sure. Looks too perfect, too good to be true." Odysseus seemed unconvinced. He shifted on his feet, glancing around as unease began seeping into his bones. "Why would the Lotus-eaters pass up on all this food?"

'Okay!' You take a step back, readying yourself for the potential scolding you most definitely were going to get for leaving the ship. 'You can do this...'

He sounds worried enough, so maybe he won't be too mad?

Taking a deep breath, you straighten you back and take a step out to greet the— 

"WHO ARE YOU?" A deep, rumbling voice echoes through the cave, making everyone freeze in their tracks.

Popping your head back around the corner, the blood drains from your face once you see the Cyclops.

Odysseus steps up with a confident smile. "Hey there! We're just travelers." He waves to the giant and motion to the others. "We come in peace."

The cyclops says nothing at first. He's monstrous, frame towering above so high you could barely make out his features—a single eye glowing menacingly in the darkness as it glared down at the Spartan warriors.

"YOU KILLED MY SHEEP. MY FAVORITE SHEEP. WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO DEAL A PAIN SO DEEP?"

You stumble back with a soft gasp and try to calm your racing heart. Your mind raced as you tried to figure out what to do.

"TIME TO DRINK—YOUR BLOOD OVER WHERE YOU STAND. YOUR LIFE NOW IS IN MY HAND."

Recalling the tales and stories of the cyclops' favored weapon (a massive club), you knew it was only a moment of time...

"BEFORE I'M DONE, YOU WILL LEARN THAT IT'S NOT SO FUN TO TAKE. YOU CAME TO MY HOME TO STEAL, BUT NOW YOU'LL BECOME MY MEAL."

Your hand flickered down to the weight in your satchel. With trembling fingers, you rummaged through it.

A Lotus fruit and bundle of dried Nepenthe and Poppy herbs are pulled out the bag, now in your hands. 'Please Gods....please. This has to work...'

"A TRADE, YOU SEE? TAKE FROM YOU LIKE YOU TOOK FROM ME."

[obsidian-pages777]

Penelope in your Astrology Chart. Where are you Patient and Loyal?

Penelope is a prominent figure in Greek mythology, best known as the faithful wife of Odysseus in Homer's epic, "The Odyssey." During the twenty years of Odysseus's absence—ten years spent fighting in the Trojan War and another ten struggling to return home—Penelope remains in Ithaca, warding off numerous suitors who seek her hand, believing Odysseus to be dead. To delay remarriage, she devises a clever ruse: she promises to choose a suitor once she finishes weaving a funeral shroud for her father-in-law, Laertes. Each day she weaves, and each night she secretly unravels her work, maintaining this deception for three years until a servant reveals her secret.

Throughout "The Odyssey," Penelope is portrayed as a paragon of marital fidelity and cleverness, matching her husband's famed cunning. Despite the immense pressure from the suitors and the uncertainty of Odysseus's fate, she remains hopeful and steadfast. Her loyalty is ultimately rewarded when Odysseus returns home, disguised as a beggar. To confirm his identity, Penelope devises a test involving their bed, which Odysseus alone can pass. Her recognition and acceptance of Odysseus culminate in a joyful reunion, underscoring the themes of perseverance, loyalty, and the enduring power of love and faithfulness.

Penelope, as an asteroid in astrology, can provide insights into themes of loyalty, patience, and waiting, given its mythological associations. Here’s an overview of what Penelope might signify when placed in each house of an astrological chart:

Penelope in the 1st House

Identity & Appearance: You may be seen as someone patient and loyal. These qualities are integral to your self-image and how you present yourself to the world. You might face situations where your patience and resilience are tested.

Penelope in the 2nd House

Finances & Values: Your approach to money and possessions is marked by patience and a sense of loyalty. You might experience financial delays but have a long-term perspective on material security. Your values reflect steadfastness and reliability.

Penelope in the 3rd House

Communication & Siblings: In communication, you are patient and thoughtful, taking your time to articulate your thoughts. Your relationships with siblings and neighbors may involve themes of waiting or long-term loyalty.

Penelope in the 4th House

Home & Family: Family life is where your patience and loyalty are most evident. You might deal with prolonged family issues or responsibilities but handle them with enduring commitment. Your home is a place of steadfast support.

Penelope in the 5th House

Creativity & Children: Creative projects and hobbies may require significant patience and perseverance. Your relationships with children are marked by loyalty and long-term commitment, often involving waiting or delayed rewards.

Penelope in the 6th House

Work & Health: In your daily work and health routines, patience is key. You might face slow progress in health matters or work situations but deal with them with a steady and persistent attitude. Your loyalty to your job and colleagues is notable.

Penelope in the 7th House

Partnerships & Marriage: Relationships are where patience and loyalty shine. You might experience delays in finding the right partner or face challenges that require enduring commitment. Your partnerships are characterized by steadfast devotion.

Penelope in the 8th House

Shared Resources & Transformation: You might face delays or challenges in matters of shared resources, inheritances, or deep emotional transformations. Your approach to these intense areas is marked by a patient, loyal, and enduring attitude.

Penelope in the 9th House

Philosophy & Travel: Your philosophical views and long-distance travel plans may involve patience and a long-term perspective. You are loyal to your beliefs and values, even if they evolve slowly over time.

Penelope in the 10th House

Career & Public Life: Career progress might be slow but steady. You are seen as a loyal and patient professional, someone who can be relied upon for long-term projects. Your public image reflects these qualities.

Penelope in the 11th House

Friendships & Groups: In your social circles and group activities, patience and loyalty are key themes. Friendships might take time to develop, but they are marked by enduring commitment. You are a reliable member of any group.

Penelope in the 12th House

Subconscious & Isolation: Patience and loyalty play out in the realms of the subconscious, spirituality, and hidden aspects of life. You might experience long periods of waiting or isolation but handle them with inner resilience and faith.

[lyculuscaelus]

Thinking about the double meanings in Odysseus’s epithets. Specifically, about πολύτροπος (polytropos) and πολύαινος (polyainos) these two.

Thinking about how πολύτροπος could mean both “much-turned, much-traveled” and “of many devices”, since the word τρόπος (tropos) has the meaning of either “turn of direction” or “turn of mind” (or “trope”). So polytropos is referring to both Odysseus’s wanderings and his resourcefulness at the same time. (What a great epithet to start a poem.)

Thinking about how πολύαινος could mean both “much-praised” and “of many tales”, since the word αἶνος (ainos) has the meaning of either “praise” or “tale, story”. So polyainos is referring to both Odysseus’s fame in Achaea and his life of many tales (or even further, his telling of many tales). There’s more. What if πολύαινος is interpreted as πολυ- (poly-) + αἰνός (ainos)? The word αἰνός means either “dreadful, dire” or “overwhelming, unendurable” in Homeric context. This way polyainos could be translated as either “much-dreaded” or “much-overwhelmed, beyond endurance”, which is referring to Odysseus’s dreadful figure (to some) and his sufferings (or comically, his overwhelming charm personality which is beyond endurance) respectively. (Or this might just be me reading too much into the epithet itself)

And I’m perfectly normal about this fresh old man why do you ask

[katerinaaqu]

Greek Fun Fact!

So you know that out of Odysseus's many epithets the first that appears in mind is Πολύτροπος (Polytropos) which comes from the compartments πολύς (polys) which means "many" or "much" and τρόπος (tropos) which can emanate either to mean "way" or "mean" and "turn" or "swift" Now in modern greek irnically we say something similar. We say "Το μυαλό του στροφάρει" = His brain is turning or "Το μυαλό του παίρνει πολλές στροφές"= His brain takes many turns when we wanna speak on a person that is very clever, very resourceful and really capable.

So yup guys! XD we still use this nowadays! You are familiar with the english term "the cogs are turning". This is the greek similar!

Also another extra. One other epithet of Odysseus is Πολύμητις (Polymetes) aka "wily" or "cunning" or "of many wiles" Do you know who other shares the epithet with him? Hephaestus!

Odysseus literally shares an epithet with the god of crafstmanship!

My Odysseus crappy sketch!

[smilerri]

many thoughts about epic: the musical...

i am once again in the middle of essay writing but plautus is boring and my friend introduced me to this album so u already know I binged the entire thing

(quick warning for spoilers of homer's odyssey? if that's necessary?? man idk whatever)

first thoughts naturally concerned odysseus. i have hated this man with a burning passion ever since I started studying classics - i think he is irredeemably selfish, a liar masquerading as a 'resourceful hero,' and basically just a twat all around. that being said, i respect that epic is not an exact replica. in fact, i like that about it!

readings of odysseus as a loving husband and father, and a man who cares deeply for his crew and fellow warriors is one i would love to see reflected in the source text (though i admit i have only read two different translations so far, so this is subject to change depending on translators choice!), if only because it would be so so refreshing. and epic does that extremely well! i find epic's odysseus to be far more likeable, insofar as he is fueled not by greed for glory (kleos for the nerds out there) but rather the desire to return to his wife and son. (I personally would argue that, while homer's odysseus is indeed fueled by a desire for homecoming (nostos), it is not for the sake of penelope and telemachus, but rather concern over the security of his status and position within the household (oikos))

i also very much enjoy that the love he holds for his family is not an inherently positive trait. in the aeneid, and often in myth, it is achilles' son, neoptolemus/pyrrhus who kills the son of hector and andromache, astyanax by throwing him from the walls of troy - less common, it is odysseus (which i did not know until i googled it just now oops). homer's odysseus does not reject the gods. he is beloved by some, hated by others - he receives their boons and curses as they come. he revels in the attention of the divine, no matter positive or negative, for it is proof of his kleos. epic's odysseus is so much more... human. he doesn't vie for glory that reaches the skies. if anything, he rues it. in the horse and the infant he supplicates himself to (who i assume is) zeus - which is such a loaded act i am genuinely struggling to think of how to articulate it, but boy am I gonna try my darndest.

the act of supplication and guest-friendship (xenia) is a very key theme within the odyssey, and to a point in the iliad also - essentially, if a traveller were to arrive at your doorstep, you were obliged to let them in and provide food, drink, and lodgings to that traveller, no questions asked. in return (because reciprocity is VERY important in homer especially), the guest would provide entertainment, tales of their travels, etc, and would be respectful of their host. the patron of these travellers was zeus. any violation of these terms, on part of the guest or host, would be met with divine scorn. for odysseus to supplicate himself to zeus is therefore meta as hell, but I would instead bring attention to the echoing lyric "hes bringing you down to your knees." 'he,' assumedly, is astyanax. his father, hector, is dead; as is his grandfather, priam, and all of priam's other sons. at this point, one could assume that it is astyanax who is ruling troy, who is now the host of the city that odysseus, a traveller from another land, has entered and ransacked. zeus' 'prophecy' of astyanax growing old and seeking revenge (reciprocity! homeric greece had a 'revenge culture' - essentially 'an eye for an eye' as well as 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours,' though not always so clear-cut), therefore, would be odysseus' punishment for violating the terms of xenia.

supplication, however, is not limited to guest-friendship alone. for example, in odyssey 22, when odysseus slaughters the suitors occupying his home (is that spoilers?), their priest leodes supplicates himself at odysseus' feet, begging to be spared. odysseus takes his head from his neck in an instant. odysseus' kneeling before astyanax, therefore, is no simple act between a guest and his host - perhaps he is begging the infant for mercy, for forgiveness, or perhaps he is positioning himself for punishment; in killing astyanax, odysseus accepts his own death. perhaps this means his fate (which, in case of homeric epic, refers to the time and manner of one's death), or perhaps it is a part of him that has died. in just a man, odysseus asks "when does a man become a monster?" his killing astyanax prevents the boy from ever becoming a man, and spares him from a life fueled only by revenge and the need to regain his glorious birthright, and it turns him into a monster. just as he says he would, he trades in the world where he is 'just a man' for a world where he is a cruel beast, all for sake of his family.

(quick detour but i really like how odysseus' focus is primarily on penelope rather than telemachus. [insert deadbeat dad joke here], but in reality, he doesn't even know the boy. penelope he chose to marry and fall in love with - it's no question that he loves telemachus, but after ten years, it is only natural that he would miss his beautiful, tricky wife with more fervour than the child he never had the chance to love. it shows he is imperfect, even illogical - the son is the father's entire legacy. just as odysseus is 'son of laertes', so will telemachus be 'son of odysseus', the protector of his immortal heroic legacy. yet it is penelope whom odysseus yearns for.)

(another detour but "i'm just a man" is such a juicy lyric, because the entire message of homer's odyssey is that odysseus is not any man - he is a man that the muses deem worthy to inspire great poets to compose epic poems that persist through thousands of years and a million different voices - a hero. but epic's odysseus is not that hero. he is a man, trying to go home, craving comfort and the warmth of the hearth. these 'flaws' humanise him more than homer's odysseus could ever imagine.)

skipping over to polyphemus, odysseus violates xenia once again by killing polyphemus' sheep, albeit unwittingly. homer makes this violation very obvious - odysseus and crew eat polyphemus' cheese and wine while polyphemus tends to his sheep, knowing that the cave is obviously inhabited, and they even wait for polyphemus to return to ask for more. it is worth noting as well that, at this point, odysseus and crew are still jubilant about their victory, and unlike in epic, these 'detours' are purposeful, specifically so that odysseus can scope out the islands for anything of interest he can snatch and add to his spoils of war, adding to his kleos by means of physical wealth (timē) - which makes odysseus' offer of treasure to appease polyphemus all the more baffling in epic. this odysseus is a leader who prioritises the lives of his men over his own kleos, which makes the final lines - "you shall be the final man to die" // "what?" // "watch out!" - all the more heartbreaking. he wants to protect his men, so that they too may return to their families back on ithaca; the prospect of watching them die before his eyes after he already witnessed so many lose their lives in battle must be so utterly terrifying.

polyphemus is so excellently creepy as well! i loved him in the odyssey - this was where I really started to dislike odysseus, actually. he's a cyclops, obviously inhuman, yet he rears sheep and makes cheese and wine and weaves wicker baskets to keep them in, trying to play at humanity. i really did sympathise with him from the first time I read it. epic's polyphemus is similar, so very calm in his anger yet ruthless all the same, and demonstrates great restraint in comparison to his counterpart in the odyssey, who gets filthy drunk after mashing six men dead and allows odysseus+co. to fashion a stake with which to blind him. much of the violence against polyphemus, as well as the violation of xenia in homer's odyssey is 'excused' by the fact that polyphemus is a 'barbarian', to whom concepts of civilised people do not belong.

(very quick detour but polyphemus' first admonishment of odysseus - "you killed my sheep" up to "take from you like you took from me" - makes such heartbreaking parallels to astyanax's murder and the sack of troy. it almost provides a visualisation of the guilt that odysseus must still be battling. i would have loved to have been in his brain when he heard polyphemus say that.)

the mercy odysseus shows polyphemus is particularly interesting - homer's odysseus leaves him alive and tells him his name purely so that his name will spread and his kleos will grow. but epic's odysseus, despite his conviction to kill in survive and to avenge is fallen comrades in remember them, spares him. in part, this is to assure them an escape, so that the cyclops' giant body does not block their exit - but athena's interruption makes clear that this is not all. she criticises him, remarks "he is still a threat until he's dead." no doubt this calls back to zeus' warnings about astyanax, hence his refusal (or inability?) to commit to slaughter. for a homeric greek hero to allow a foe to live on after his allies had been slaughtered is a grave failure of reciprocity, casting shame on both the hero and their enemy. homer's odysseus escapes this with his reputation intact, since as a result polyphemus curses him to face poseidon's wrath - as I mentioned, for a hero, even negative attention from the gods is a good thing as it proves that their reputation/glory is known all over, even in olympus. but, as we have established, epic's odysseus cares not for kleos. the decision to tell polyphemus his name is entirely impulsive and irrational, grieving his comrades, hence athena's outrage.

the relationship between athena and odysseus is founded entirely on the principles they share, described in warrior of the mind (if anyone can lmk whereabouts this song fits in the timeline I will be so grateful, I'm stupid unfortunately :/). they value wisdom, reason, and rationality over brute strength and bloodlust. epic's athena becomes odysseus' patron goddess with the goal to "make a greater tomorrow" and "change the world" - aspirations that are entirely foreign to any homeric god. gods in homer do not care about the wellbeing of humans unless they are directly related to them, and they certainly don't care about the wellness of humanity as a whole. humans are toys and tools of the gods. the amount that athena cares for odysseus, even in the odyssey, is unusual, demonstrative of how much she cares for him, yet epic makes their comradery more obvious, even going as far as to (tentatively) call them friends. my goodbye frames athena's anger as disappointment at an experiment failed - calling back to warrior of the mind, where she claims to have "designed" him - but odysseus' replies to her makes clear that it is far more personal. perhaps, to her, odysseus acting so irrationally is even a betrayal; odysseus is abandoning the principles of reason they both once held and thus is forsaking all that they once shared and that she, as the goddess of wisdom, stands for.

ive always considered athena to be a very interesting goddess. she is a patron of both war, which in homer is only carried out by men, and weaving, the traditional work of women within the household - her very nature is a contradiction of masculine and feminine. although it is ares who is considered the 'black sheep' of the olympians for his brutality in war, epic's portrayal of athena through odysseus' lens paints her as lonely and ostracised - "since you claim you're so much wiser // why's your life spent all alone? // you're alone." It is clear that odysseus here does not view her as his patron at all, rather as a friend - and to that she takes offence, because she is a goddess, eternal and all-powerful. she does not need friendship or comradery; those are mortal concerns alone. personally, I see epic's athena as incredibly insecure. she cuts odysseus off because she cannot bare that a mortal has been able to read her so clearly, to see all the ugly parts of herself that she keeps hidden to retain the facade of the perfect goddess. she knows the paradox within herself - warrior and woman, immortal and alone - and rues that odysseus was able to see it as well. the cruellest part, the most ironic, is that his being able to figure out the true, imperfect nature of a god shows that he has not abandoned the path of the warrior of the mind. in fact, his wisdom extends beyond mortality into the realm of the divine. but athena is blinded by her anger and insecurity, and she says her goodbyes. she disappears from there, only to appear again to try to warn odysseus of his crew opening the bag of winds given to him by aeolus in keep your friends close, once again demonstrating her care for him, despite her anger.

the amount that odysseus cares for his crew is demonstrated time and again throughout the album, yet in the end, he still slowly loses their trust. aeolus' winds are the first sign. his crew betrays his orders upon the first whisper on the wind that he might be keeping treasure from them. the next sign, in puppeteer, is eurylochus' confession upon arrival to aeaea (circe's island), which odysseus brushes off, much as he brushed off eurylochus' concerns in luck runs out. then, in a matter of moments, 600 men are reduced to forty by the wrath of poseidon - which in itself is a significant change. while odysseus in epic is explicitly blamed for failing to kill polyphemus, homer's odysseus takes no responsibility for the deaths of hundreds of his men. it happens when they arrive at telepylos, which, unbeknownst to them, is home to the laestrygonians, a race of cannibalistic giants. odysseus, apparently sensing something off (who tf does he think he is, spiderman?), allows his entire fleet to enter the bay of telepylos while his ship alone remains outside - and when those ships are attacked and trapped, he alone takes his single ship and escapes, allowing twelve ships of men to be ripped apart and eaten by cannibals. an act which he shows no remorse for.

in my interpretation of homer's odyssey, it is this slowly slipping trust that eventually leads to his men ignoring his warnings and feasting on the cows of helios which leads to the deaths of all his remaining crew, including eurylochus and polites (spoilers? idk). so, once epic: the musical catches up to book 12 of the odyssey you WILL be seeing me again I hope ur excited.

there is definitely more i could say here, especially about the circe saga bcs ohhh my god I love circe and I love this circe especially (a female character with actual motive other than being a victim? homer could never) but unfortunately I'm running out of steam and I do in fact have 3 essays due this month (help) so I will probably return to this later !! hopefully its readable bcs I'm not going back to edit any of this ;)

[lurking-latinist]

I just saw this awesome post about including mobility aids in fantasy writing, and I do not want to create a tangent but I *do* want to share some things I learned about disability in ancient Greece when I was researching that paper I wrote on the Philoctetes, so I am making my own post.

Philoctetes is a mythical figure who was one of the Greek heroes going to the Trojan war. Before they got there, he suffered a wound in the foot which would not heal. The other Greek leaders were unwilling to have the noise of his screams and the stench of the infected wound in their camp, so they abandoned him on a deserted island with only his famous weapon, the Bow of Heracles. He survived there for ten years. Now the war is almost over, Troy has almost fallen, but the Greeks have heard a prophecy: they cannot win until they have the Bow of Heracles. So wily Odysseus and young Neoptolemus (the son of the recently dead Achilles) go to the island where Philoctetes is still living, still dealing with his injury. Philoctetes is eager to escape the island, but can he trust the community that abandoned him ten years ago? Can they ever make right what they did to him?

Now that’s the type of story that someone might very well point to who was arguing that disabled people have to be neglected and excluded in a “historically accurate” story. And it’s definitely not an example of casual inclusion. But what that person would be missing is that Philoctetes’ abandonment and isolation in this play was intended to be shocking to its Athenian audience. The audience is invited to identify with Philoctetes and to be horrified at how he does not receive the support from his community that real-world people with similar disabilities did receive, as we can tell from both textual and archaeological evidence.

Martha L. Rose’s book The Staff of Oedipus: Transforming Disability in Ancient Greece emphasizes this. Look, here’s what I wrote in my paper, why should I rewrite it:

Rose approaches her material “though the lens of disability studies, which approaches the phenomenon of disability by assuming that there is nothing inherently wrong with the disabled body and that the reaction of a society to the disabled body is neither predictable nor immutable” (1). In other words, it is necessary to see what attitudes and assumptions about disabilities are actually recorded, rather than projecting any of our own assumptions. ...

Also unlike today, Greek concepts of disability were not medicalized. “Permanent physical disability,” writes Rose, “was not the concern of doctors in antiquity beyond recognition of incurability” (11). This does not mean that disabled people had no resources or were simply left to perish, of course. Rather, they were often cared for within their households and their communities (28), which means that both Philoctetes’ abandonment and isolation form a shocking exception to the norm. The importance of community support suggests that Philoctetes’ joy at being reunited with humanity comes from practical as well as emotional needs. At the same time, the wide range of tasks and trades in the Greek economy meant that many disabled people were far from economically dependent (think of [the god] Hephaestus the lame smith), so that “[a] physically handicapped person earning a living would not have been a remarkable sight” (39). People unable to walk at all rode donkeys or were carried in litters, while those who walked with difficulty used a staff or a crutch (24-26).

So for writers: the ancient Greeks didn’t invent the wheelchair--but they had the wheel technology (I suspect the issue may have been with roads and pavements instead), so your Greek-inspired fantasy world totally can (which was the point of that earlier post). Or maybe your protagonist goes on their adventures with a faithful donkey sidekick that helps them get around. Maybe they are respected for their skill in a craft, making their home and workshop a lively meeting-place for customers. If you’re writing fantasy, you could be inspired by one of the myths of Hephaestus, in which he creates metal automatons--basically, magic robots--that not only support him as he walks, they also act as assistants in his workshop!

Anyway, the point of this post is basically just that I agree with the other post about including mobility aids in fantasy and I had some relevant knowledge in the back of my head. And also that you should read the Philoctetes. Look, here’s a recent free modern English verse translation: https://johnstoniatexts.x10host.com/sophocles/philocteteshtml.html

Oh, and if you would like to see my term paper or the relevant section from The Staff of Oedipus, message me, I will share them.

[citrusbusiness]

Ok so one of my favorite things to do is imagine how epic could work as an actual stage musical (with infinite resources lol). I know Jorge has said due to the limitations of stages he sees epic as something that would work better animated, and he's right about that. Epic has a lot of scenes, characters, and effects that would be difficult to replicate in the real world and in real time. However, that's honestly half the fun of thinking about it.

I think the original comment that Jorge was responding to when he said this asked about scylla specifically, and I think she's definitely one of the hard parts. All of the gods' magical abilities are hard, but scylla has additional problems.

She's really big. It's hard to pull off big things because they're hard to coordinate and move around. The heads would probably be some form of puppetry or something like how a Chinese dragon works, or just an ensemble if we're not feeling as complicated.

She's in the middle of a saga. You could probably get away with closing the curtain to change in between all the sagas, but not in the middle of one. How the heck is she getting her onstage?

Not only that, her reveal is in the middle of a song. Yes there's an instrumental bit but there is a definite time limit on the available time to move her around

I've been at a loss for how to handle her for a while. However, today I just came up with a solution. No, it's not as cool as it looks in the animatics, but I'm fond of it.

Use the wings.

Have the heads come out of the wings, three on each side. This seems so obvious now that I've thought of it, and it makes everything so much simpler!

First, actual Scylla actor goes on Big Platform. Raise her up. She needs to look larger than the crew and Odysseus so she's as imposing as possible.

All the heads come out when she's introduced, then retract. They come out one by one throughout the rest of the song to snatch the six crew members with the torches.

If there's a projection on that back wall/curtain which I forget the official name of that makes it look cooler but the singing bit and the killing bits are the most important. So there's less stuff that needs to be built and puppeted around with this way.

This is extra fun because the idea of Scylla is that she comes out of the darkness and snatches the soldiers. Since the wings of the stage are black, it makes it seem like the heads are indeed coming out of the blackness.

Anyway those are my Scylla thoughts. I have many thoughts but I just needed to share these ones with you all.

[ashoss]

My favorite option for Tim is son of Athena because of his cunning and the way he sometimes reminds me of Odysseus, Athena’s favorite mortal, who is called cunning, resourceful, nimble-witted, and wily, but also has a problem with hubris. Like Tim is obviously super smart and also cunning (see league of assassins, coming up with his own contingency plans, embezzling a Batmobile). However, like the son of another one of Athena’s favored mortals, he can also fly a little too close to the sun sometimes by trying to play god (i.e. the trying to clone Kon situation).

I feel like his dynamic with Bruce could be especially intriguing if Bruce was a favored mortal of Athena. If we look at the demanding and perfectionistic characterization of her in the PJO Disney show, the relationship between Athena’s-favored!Bruce and Athena-demigod!Tim, where Tim feels the need to save Batman not just on his own but also in relation to trying to please and impress his impossible to impress distant mother, could bring in absolutely delicious emotional dynamics.

oo i do like the tim/obysseus connection,,,,

I hadn't thought about favoured mortal of Athena Bruce and Athena kid Tim- you're absolutely right i think that dynamic would be super interesting to explore!

[dreadfutures]

impressions from the hades ii technical playtest

absolutely chock full of spoilers but also theories

Amazing gameplay, feels just as good as Hades 1 with improvements and creative changes. So many different builds/play styles will be possible. in the dev stream they talked about melee close quarters vs sorcery ranged, but I find myself doing HEAVY spellcasting while also stacking in heavy melee boons on the knives, and mixing and matching.

The boons have a few familiar perks but so many of them are new and creative, even for gods we know from the first game. All of them feel really good.

The SOUND EFFECTS are amazing. The sounds of your weapons change based on the boon equipped to each attack. the sounds of the arena change depending on the god at the end (if any). Nothing and I mean nothing makes the dopamine go off more than the sound of Hephaestus' boon blasts when I do my fan of knives and they all explode. PING PING PING.

I find myself doing "resource runs" and "story runs." they do overlap. It's tough to only have one harvesting item equipped at a time and I spent so much time looking for silver and looking that my eye has started slipping over the lone spirits who gives you psyche, even when Selene leads me to them lol. I do like that they have her guiding light, but it is subtle. I also like the way you can pin certain items when you're in a run so you can remember what you needed for a recipe.

Unfortunately I did so many harvest runs that I actually got all the recipes before I had a chance to USE forget me not on a run so.... woops on that fated list lol.

We are maybe going to romance Moros or Nemesis (probably both are options?) but maybe not both at the same time? since they're siblings technically (technically) (I wouldn't mind though). I love all these children of nyx and want to protect them and smooch them all.

EXCEPT. Mel is a Silver Sister, with Artemis and Selene. Does that mean she's gotta be a virginal girl squad? lol

I love sister Artemis. I love that she throws snacks!!!!! which is even more endearing bc it's fried and a chocolate bar and soda. I wonder if sometimes I hear a note of disapproval from her and I wonder where her plot will go later. Selene it's said may not be able to reach us in Tartarus, but Artemis might.

Speaking of found family.

I fucking adore Odysseus. I love Od. So. Much. Like I loved Achilles but Od is such a good girl dad for Mel, and his pep talks are the best and so sensitive ;_; what a guy I love him.

I think? that Hecate's familiars must be placeholders, since they're just little statues that vibrate when you give them treats. I can't wait to see where they go in the full game.

It's an interesting take on Hestia, that she hates everybody. It makes me wonder if we'll see Hera or not, since I kind of expect that behavior from Hera.

Hephaestus and Demeter and Aphrodite remain my favorite boon givers.

As far as I can tell there is no fishing rod in the playtest but there will be in the full game and I'm excited.

Arachne's self esteem hurts me 😫 I love you little bug!!!! I wonder if we'll find her shop in Olympus or in Tartarus -- and I worry about her. At least Athena is too busy to bother her! I hope! I love Mel's different outfits.

The amount of pets that Mel gets to have is delightful. I love her frog so much.

Hecate is fascinating. She is SUCH a mother, she is SO compassionate to Mel and trying to build her up! She is wry and dry but never cruel or negative. I love her sm. Poor Mel has some low self esteem and understandable doubts and is putting so much pressure on herself. And I really wonder about Hecate's relationship with Persephone and the house of Hades and with nyx. Nemesis says something that makes me wonder if Hecate is innocent. Either way I don't think she'll really be a villain. My heart would break if so. Mel would break.

Mel is so sweet and pure. ;_; and she says "death to chronos" so coldly. When she says "Hence I go" I just hear her as a little baby playing hide and seek with Hecate and it gives me so many feelings.

I want to know about Mel's arm!

I can't wait to see the other regions just from the Crossroads, since there's currently two doors we can't enter.

Also what are we going to DO with the fish?

Very exciting stuff.