#sams theory

[lunarthemexican]

Okay. I have stuff I want to let out because something has been stressing me out about todays recent episodes.

I still believe Bm will get a redemption.

I'm stressing over this really bad, and I know for a fact I might not be right but since the recent episode where Frank warns Bloodmoon, its very clear that the twins will be separated. Now the thing about the Twins is that they are very dependent on each other. If they were to be separated, they'd lose their minds. In the recent Episode of Sun and moon playing chapter 3 of "Weird Strict Dad" where Moon says he's more likely to forgive Bloodmoon after a certain point in a game, it raised my hopes that if the twins were to be separated, one of the twins would freak out and go to one of the only other people who tried giving them a chance before. Sun and Moon. I feel like he would beg for help, which I know sounds odd- but without the crazy twins (the one voice acted by TheInvisibleDavis-) other half, who literally helps him make decisions before they act on things, he'd rush to ideas and would run to them for help. At least I pray what happens. Though, if they were to help the twins would Frank be seen as a slight bad guy? I don't know but I was freaking out, so I wanted to rant about this topic.

[evilyn-is-gay]

Something I realized about Solar’s death;

It directly parallels his dimension

Ours:

1. Sun was probably gonna die

2. Solar died

Solar’s:

1. Solar was probably gonna die

2. Sun died

And now that I say that… god… what if Moon reacts so similarly to Solar’s Moon that it’s the same thing..?

[thorns-and-rosewings]

Okay so it's theory time...

I think that Eclipse is going to try and bring back Solar via magic means. He's clearly up to something and it's not initially clear what. But if Moon cannot figure out how to undo Solars dimensional collapse via scientific means, magical means might be the only shot they have with that.

But my inner alchemist is saying that to do that he'd need a sacrifice.

One life for a life. He'd probably offer himself up with the full intention of dying. I think one thing that we can say is that Eclipse DOES care. And probably more than that he knows he isn't wanted, the universe is happier place without him. Puppet even said that exact thing to him recently.

But it would be something that would make all of the Celestial family see him differently. As he really is just a sad, lonely soul who never got the help he desperately needed... And as Ruin has said today, he's essentially a photocopy of Eclipse. He isn't the real one and that's gotta hurt like hell to know.

But... I don't think HE'S going to be the one who dies...

I think that right before the sacrifice he is ready to make, Frank will step in and exchange Eclipse for someone else...

I think he will put in one of the Bloodtwins...

Now I fully believe that Stitchwraith is going to separate the twins, yes, but separation doesn't mean death... But Frank has a score to settle. So however the twins are separated, Frank will do Frank things and obtain the captured Bloodtwin. To which he sacrifices in order to bring back Solar, but also give Eclipse a genuine chance to change and have a life. As everyone will have seen that there was something in him that was willing to die to bring back the one they all loved.

It gives Frank the ability to right a wrong. As Bloodmoon killed his lover, but now one of them will be used to resurrect someone who was taken from his family too soon...

This will be incredibly bad news for Bloodmoon, but an interesting route things could take for the rest of the show.

A life for a life...

[possumsarenice]

WAIT GUYS I JUST REMEMBEREDED TO ASK THIS QUESTION

DID RUIN EVER FIX HIS KILL CODE???????

WE WERE SO WRAPPED UP OVER IF WAS ACTUALLY CURED OR NOT WE FORGOT TO ASK THAT

WHAT IF HE MADE ECLIPSE BECAUSE OF HIS KILL CODE????? WHAT IF HE EMBRACED HIS URGES???? WHAT IF IT FORMED A DIFFERENT AI (probably not but it is a very small possibility)

[joltyflare]

(Sun and Moon Show Theory #2: Eclipse Will Bring Solar Back)

This is a pretty common and obvious theory by now, especially after today's lore in LAES. It seems like it's very clear this is the direction the shows (SAMS and LAES) are headed. But I still think it's worth posting!

I think Eclipse is working on bringing Solar back. I also believe he will succeed at being the one to bring him back rather than Moon.

His motives are now more obvious than ever: He wants to prove himself. Everyone is constantly berating him and calling him useless and whatnot and we know Eclipse has always had quite the ego. We also know he is intelligent...and regardless of what he thinks about his status as being a mere copy of himself, we know that he is aware that he is still intelligent and still has his pride. He especially wants to prove he is the more "dominant" one between himself and Moon (unable to accept that New Moon isn't the same Moon he had this rivalry with and that he doesn't care to be his rival now). When he visited Moon and Moon started going on about how nobody would ever love Eclipse, Eclipse made that remark about him being unable to bring back Solar. The way he did this and then immediately mentioned wanting to prove who is the dominant one makes me believe that Eclipse feels like he can bring back Solar and one-up Moon in doing so.

Of course, another reason he wants to do this is because Puppet and Frank's words actually got through to him. He knows he needs a purpose to feel fulfilled. He always needs a goal to work towards, otherwise he feels incomplete. Apparently, at least for the time being, his goal seems to revolve around being superior to Moon. Ever since his first death that seems to be the case. Moon and Eclipse can't seem to get away from each other and seem to be drawn together like moths to a flame at this point. If he redeems himself, I still feel like it'll be hard for him to pass up this rivalry even if it does become a more friendly rivalry. But, regardless, the words of Puppet and Frank seemed to have sparked something within him that he couldn't shake off.

But there's also the fact he visited Earth and spoke to her. When he visited Sun and Moon's home, he simply seemed to be investigating (more on that later) but when he visited Earth he seemed interested in actually talking to her. He appeared to be there primarily to speak to her about Solar's death. When he asked her if she really needed Solar and she said yeah, he let out this long sigh. I can't help but wonder if that set him fully on the path to finding Solar. After all, she seems to be the only person to have shown him true kindness thus far and he's finally believing that she is genuine as well as starting to respect her as an individual. Maybe he's starting to care about her. He didn't mock her or anything and simply seemed curious on her thoughts. Some people were saying he could have possibly gone to Monty's place to investigate further but I find it doubtful, since Solar didn't have much relevance to Monty's home or anything like that. I think he was there for Earth and maybe trying to disguise the fact he was there for her by just turning and looking away from her as he spoke.

Anyway, that's it for the motive part of this theory: Needing a purpose, wanting to prove himself (especially to Moon), and maybe feeling a bit of sympathy and empathy (especially toward Earth).

As for the evidence...well, there's that whole conversation that sparked him even considering being the one to bring Solar back. Or even considering it to be a plausible thing that can happen. After Puppet and Frank practically ordered him to do this, he yelled at the air about how it was probably impossible and then muttered "unless..." despite seeming somewhat dismissive still. Then he apparently went into Sun and Moon's home to where Solar died, brushed his finger along the floor, and left. And he of course went to where Earth was for whatever reason...and, of course, proceeded to talk to her about her grief over Solar. He has also seemingly abandoned the immediate desire to kill Ruin. Then he went to Moon and was somewhat mocking him over the fact he couldn't revive Solar and then went on about how he wanted to prove to be more dominant...which is an interesting thing to just suddenly say.

But today's episode is what really sells this theory for me. I mean he was thinking really hard about something, openly said he's not planning on hurting Sun, Moon, or their family, and then needed to think some more and started talking to himself about how he needed code, a lot of power, and maybe something else? He seems to have almost everything he needs. He even doubts that Sun and Moon will even want his help, which makes sense when combined with how he has been treated by the two brothers since Solar's death. Yeah...all this is pointing in the direction of Eclipse reviving Solar.

It's obvious Solar will come back! There are very few people who even think he'll stay dead and even staff in the official server are as convinced as fans that he'll be coming back. Bringing him back, at least according to Puppet, is important to the balance of things as well. The way he died even leaves a lot in the air and makes me feel like his story would indeed not end there. I mean fans were in an uproar more than any death in the series as well, so there's that.

But my main belief is that they wanted to do a Solar redesign anyway. They never wanted to get rid of Solar and they seem to like killing off characters as an excuse to give them new models. A lot. Solar's model in VRchat was glitching a lot anyway and there were hints he'd get a new body regardless but this would make the most sense if we were to get the one we see in thumbnails. Regardless as to why, I think this is gonna be an exciting part of his return!!

I might make a post explaining why I think they'd have Solar die to simply get a new body for him. Some of it obviously has to do with a redemption arc for Eclipse and it ties in well with he plot but there's more things design-wise that make me feel it's the only way to give him the design we see in the thumbnails.

Anyway, yeah, I think Solar is coming back and I think Eclipse will bring him back. Also, no, I do not think Eclipse will have to sacrifice himself for this to happen...so I hope Eclipse AND Solar fans (such as myself) can enjoy the prospect of his return!!

[hikkokoro]

Damn, wouldnt it be crazy if Ruin is trying to build a star like what Dark Sun envisions so that he can fix his own universe because he doesnt feel like he belong on Sun and Moons?

[snowe-zolynn-rogers]

Kay, so it’s not Ruin. And it’s not Creator. But we do know now that it was a physical person that brought him back because directives were programmed in.

I would offer Evil Moon as a way to fuck with Solar one last time but he’s been dead for a month (two weeks before Eclipse came back) and he wasn’t alive to install directives when Eclipse activated.

Jigsaw is not an option because he’s been dead for two months just about as of Eclipse’s activation. Not a viable answer.

The daycare crew has been ruled out. Monty wouldn’t this. Stitchwraith is busy with his new adopted sons and (when Eclipse activated) kidnapping his sister so he probably didn’t do it. Blood Moon doesn’t have the knowledge to rebuild Eclipse.

My options for viable suspects are:

Evil Sun (though the motive doesn’t seem to be there for him)

Frank (but I think he wouldn’t since he’s been bonding with Earth and she’d be affected by Eclipse as well)

Vanny (though motive would be unknown, someone mentioned it in the comments today)

An Eclipse from a different dimension (motive unknown, but Eclipses are egotistical, maybe they have a vendetta or something)

Lunara/Evil Lunar. (possibly as a way to say fuck you to Sun one more time. Possibly just for fun.)

Someone we don’t know yet. (Could be someone we don’t know, possibly one of those enemies Moon has from Old Moon’s time alive.)

[pandi-ponders]

SAMS/LAES THEORY

Ok, ok, ok, the lastest LAES episode got me thinking. For the longest time, the three ideas as to who brought back Eclipse were Ruin, Stitchwraith or the Creator, and as of now, they were either confirmed not to be involved or slightly suspicious. To me, all these options didn't make any sense, even now with Ruin. There's no foreshadowing, motive or build-up for any of these characters. Plus, Eclipse has confirmed that his magic circle was merely a copy of Old Moon's, so this person has to have at least known of Old Moon(Or knew where the circle was) or been around for that long. Of course anything could happen, but that is crucial to my theory.

Castor mentioned that in order to deem Lunar as not being a threat to the Astral Bodies, he had to be tested by one of them. Before this bit of information, my past theory on Eclipse was that he was subconsciously created by Lunar's inability to properly process his emotions, triggering his star power and forcing him to confront what he feared most (I can elaborate on that theory on another post if you want me to :3).

BUT now that Castor mentioned a test by the Astral Bodies, I'm starting to think that it wasn’t Lunar who did so, but whoever has decided to test Lunar. We know the Astral Bodies are timeless, being able to die and simply reincarnate. And there's the fact that Eclipse used the star so they KNOW who he is and what he's done. Without a doubt, they would know what an effect he had on Lunar. So, now they want to force him to face the very person at the center of all his trauma, purpose and fears. THIS is his true test. Not Eclispe, not the Astral Bodies, but his refusal to face such fears. If Lunar can conquer and control his emotions and the hold his trauma has on him, only then will he be deemed as non-threatening. And if not... it was nice knowing you Lunar <3

There's probably a bunch of holes in this theory but it was fun to think of :D

[alexandraisyes]

What is going on with Eclipse?

He's different, changed, and set to square one all over again. All his growth? Poof.

Well, my theory is this isn't the Eclipse that died. I'll explain under the cut, and also touch on if this is the Eclipse that died, and how it might work.

Why do I think that?

He is audibly confused when Sun and Moon talk about him getting blown up. That's my main reason.  Other reasons are the fact that he has lost almost all character growth Is upset about the star being gone Doesn't seem focused on the Astral Bodies and Lunar And acts like he's suffered a hugely personal grievance from the celestial twins

And, well, let's linger on the word act. He's an actor. He's acting. His words are strained, as if scripted. Playing a role he doesn't think fits... or isn't one for him to fill.

Our Eclipse was moving past that. And I've heard the theories on him being bitter because he was blown up but... apparently, he doesn't remember that.

So who is he?

We've got a few ideas here

The first thought is, this is the Eclipse. Yeah. THE Eclipse. The original. The one that was blasted from Sun's mind. Remember that conversation? It went something along the lines of:

"I said queso, not keso!" "You said what?!" "I mean, it worked? He's gone." "He's either dead or... immobile in the woods somewhere broken beyond repair."

If he's in the woods well... he'd have shut down. His processors would have failed. His body first overheating with the melting plastic, then going deathly cold as his vents and fans shut off one by one. However, as we know, broken beyond repair is not a real problem for animatronics. It's a setback. Lunar, Sun, Monty, Earth... all have been "broken beyond repair". What happens when they reach that state? Their AI is transferred to an entirely new body. Who would do that for Eclipse?

A few people, actually. The creator is the first to come to mind. The second is KC, who is now dead, but it's possible that with Eclipse ending up in the forest... and KC living in the forest, KC could have repaired him or begun to repair him. Especially with what we know about KC. He knows magic, he knows star power, and he came from old Moon, who was quite the techie. This would give us the option of Eclipse being made of materials that aren't entirely mechanical if that is the case. 

The last person to come to mind is Ruin. Ruin was living in Moon's old bunkers with Bloodmoon for quite a bit, he visited a lot of the same places Eclipse had, and he's probably been in quite a few deserted areas where the OG Eclipse might have ended up in. He has an aptitude for tech, he built and programmed Bloodmoon, after all.

The second thought is a backup (AI and body). It's always possible that Moon missed something. As we've all noted, Eclipse seems to be on his first character arc again.

The third thought is a backup but in a different sense. Ruin takes play here again. 

Remember when Ruin raided Moon's computer and found 'encrypted code left by Eclipse'? There's a possibility that Eclipse left a backup of his AI in the computer just like how he left the entirety of his Bloodmoon schematics in Moon's computer. Which seems careless, and makes one wonder why he would do that, or even when he would do that. And why the computer wouldn't have removed it. Well, if it's encrypted that means it's hidden. And we all know how big a fan of the show Ruin is, he probably knows alllll about Eclipse. So, he could have built Eclipse just like he built Bloodmoon. Or, even without a back up, could have done *exactly* what he did with Bloodmoon, pick and choose what parts to show a new Eclipse about who he was, leaving out bits that would alter the desired outcome.

The fourth thought. It's Ruin. Ruin built his new body, we have no idea what he added to it. Like I said earlier, "His words are strained, as if scripted. Playing a role he doesn't think fits... *or isn't one for him to fill.*" Plus, Ruin has been veryyy suspicious lately. "There's not cameras in here, is there? Oh wait, yes there are." And then the footage cuts out, did he dismantle the camera? Maybe. And if it's not Ruin himself, it's probably option 2 or 3 and Ruin is helping him. I have a feeling that Ruin didn't want them to come through the tunnels because Eclipse was hiding in them, watching the scene unfold. Eclipse does like to watch the chaos of his actions, this is a pattern with him.

The last thought. He could be the Eclipse that died. Unlikely, but it's possible. Dying is something *deeply* traumatic, and it could be repressed. Or he could be suffering amnesia. I talked in a different thread about the potential of Sun going comatose and that is what Eclipse saw when he told Moon "I have seen the future and sun will die" or whatever. When I talked about that, I touched on the amnesia aspect of a comatose state, in which the victims of such a state lose the recall ability of events that happened shortly before entering such a state without assistance in the matter. The longer the comatic state, the worse the recall ability, and the further the memory loss goes.

Other support with the idea that he could be the Eclipse that died in Solar's world, he didn't look like he wanted to move on. Flare walked out, Flare left, and I don't think we'll be seeing Flare again in the series as much as that hurts (I love Flare if you didn't know). Anyways, Flare left. Eclipse? Eclipse lingered, he didn't walk out of consciousness, he didn't leave, he just sat there as the darkness ate away at what was left of him. 

In fact, rewatching that episode, I noticed something.

We see Moon press the button, the laser fires, and presumably, Eclipse explodes just like that. Except we go to the shared mindscape of Eclipse and Flare, and watch their final interaction. Flare walks away. Eclipse stays. I've always thought it weird that the mindscape was *clouds* unless the host of the mind makes a conscious effort to alter it (see KC) or requires a structured mind to be able to function properly (see Solar). Seems very... virtual. Like, maybe the digital 'cloud'. Uploading to the cloud? They are connected to the internet, they automatically connect to internet when available, and they've never needed to mess with passwords even if they are in an entirely new environment. So it's possible... it's possible that Eclipse lingered. Lingered and connected to the network in Solar's world, if we're going to go with the cloud idea. 

But hey, that's just a theory.

[rubydevilcat-blog]

I have a theory for The Sun and Moon show, related to who brought back Eclipse. What if it was Evil Sun?

Ever since Eclipse came back from the dead, so much has happened from the end of December, to the beginning of February. Eclipse has been shown to be much different than what he was before he died; He expressed how he doesn’t remember much after he died, he called out that he revealed himself too early, and he does not know why he is doing any of the actions he is doing. It’s as if he has forgotten so much about his own motive, something the eclipse we know would never do.

The only thing he knows is that he has knowledge about his magic, he remembers the star doing dead, he remembers what killed him, he remembers his victims, and he knows about Solar. The one thing he doesn’t know is who created him, that becomes the main conflict at the moment in TSAMS channel, along with LAES.

During this conflict, Ruin is seen as a suspect, a possible reasoning for Eclipse’s return. The only evidence Moon or Eclipse have against Ruin is that he was known for creating Bloodmoon’s physical body (when he was evil), and being able to fix his own body with blueprints. Ruin is seen as a smart animatronic who can create anything as long as he has a blueprint, it explains why fixing arcades is difficult, he doesn’t have the instructions on how to fix it properly.

Maybe with Ruin being accused, maybe that’s part of Evil Sun’s plan? Evil Sun has no eyes on him, no one suspects he could do anything, but ruin? He has done evil things before, and has been an enemy to Sun and Moon before. How does Evil Sun know about Ruin? With one key evidence to support my theory, he has New Moon’s information. He knows about Solar, about Ruin, about Sun, about everyone in the information given to him, but I feel with Eclipse it was complicated. Moon doesn’t know Eclipse’s true motive, his reasoning of doing evil, and he only knows what Eclipse has done, not behind the scenes.

Evil Sun could have made Eclipse to continue to mess with Moon, have you seen what he has done so far? Most of the time while Evil Sun was out of radar, it was Moon who made most of the bad decisions. Moon lied to Lunar to try to protect him, only causing a conflict in the relationship. Moon made a deal with Eclipse to keep him alive to find the person who made Eclipse, making Lunar more furious and feeling betrayed. Making Solar create Jack to protect Lunar, making him lie to Lunar so Jack could stay hidden for weeks. Every decision made has been caused by Moon, and what if Evil Sun knew this could happen.

Far as I know, Evil Sun could have a plan completely different than what I’m thinking of, but here is the plan I believe Evil Sun has made:

Evil Sun collects information from Moon, so he can learn more about the universe Moon lives in, and the strengths and weakness he has.

He goes to Solar’s Universe to collect what he needs, possibly something from the computers, his information that Moon did not have, or supplies:

Evil Sun creates Eclipse, applying magic into him, setting up a code that cannot be removed, or Eclipse would die.

Evil Sun sends Eclipse to Moon’s dimension, with a directive in his hardware so even if he doesn’t remember much, he would know what to do (Somewhat)

He plays the waiting game as he watches him his computer of what Eclipse has been doing, like collecting data like ‘Bloodmoon’s blueprints’ from Ruin.

With what information Eclipse knows about Ruin, he goes after him first, going after him enough times for him to be accused of creating Eclipse, causing Moon to suspect and interrogate Ruin.

With Ruin being watched, Evil Sun stands by and watches as he sees Moon make even more bad decisions, like creating Jack without telling lunar for weeks about Eclipse.

So far thats how I think the plan is going, moon making rash decisions, causing problems for himself as Evil Sun keeps watch. I believe that there are multiple outcomes of what he is doing right now, with how much of a genius he is, there could be something he is doing behind the scenes that we don’t know.

Either 1, he received a notification about Eclipse’s new chip, and at the moment he is coding a loophole so his Eclipse doesn’t get killed too soon.

Or 2, he waits as he watches Moon, waiting for him to make one more bad decision that caused a drift between him and Sun, leaving him alone

But whatever Evil Sun is doing, it’s not good. With the recent hints going on about Sun, if Evil Sun is the main problem, I fear that Evil Sun may at one point try to switch places with OG Sun, so he can do something worse. If not, then that’s is something we will have to find out.

[bittyfromquotev]

SAMS ECLIPSE THEORY VERY IMPORTANT

OKAY Y’ALL NEED TO LISTEN. SPOILERS BELOW.

I can’t help but notice, even though we couldn’t see him clearly, Eclipse’s colors seem similar to @brightsstar’s design of their RE Eclipse. Let me explain. Trust me this all connects:

POINT 1:

In the RE AU, Eclipse is the original Eclipse from the very first October Takeover. In their AU, Eclipse never actually dies. In canon SAMS, it is never implied that Eclipse ACTUALLY DIED. Sun messed up the spell. This is apparent.

Therefore, until proven otherwise, it is extremely likely that this Eclipse is the original from the 1st October. This is proven further by his obvious desire to kill Sun and Moon.

POINT 2:

If Ruin brought Eclipse back to life and showed him videos/memories like he did with Bloodmoon, why would Eclipse want to kill them? Never have the two brothers provided any adequate(by normal standards) reasons to have them killed. It doesn’t make sense. Also, before he died, Eclipse was already freaking TIRED of the Star! It doesn’t make sense for, especially if the videos were showed to him, that he would want that thing back. 

POINT 3:

All original Eclipse cared about was killing Sun and Moon and THE STAR. LITERALLY THAT WAS HE GOAL. GET THE STAR.

The star is gone. Eclipse said he didn’t care. He probably watched the show since he was caught up on recent events it seems. However, he still wanted to KILL THE CELESTIAL BROTHERS.

POINT 4:

Notice how he doesn’t mention killing Lunar. Yeah sure, OG Eclipse abused Lunar, but it was BACKUP Eclipse that wanted him dead.

POINT 5:

Eclipse laughs at their suffering. Huh. If this wasn’t OG, he would be frustrated. 

HE LITERALLY TRIED TO HELP THEM BEFORE HE DIED???? I mean, he sucked at it, but he TRIED.

ORIGINAL ECLIPSE WOULD NOT HAVE TRIED. HE WOULD HAVE LAUGHED.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk :)

[pinkydee10]

HOLY HECK GUYS, I JUST HAD THE CRAZIEST THEORY!

Even crazier than my “Eclipse might just be Solar Flare” theory I made on TikTok a while ago because this actually makes sense!

Ok, so each zodiac sign rules over each of the large bodies in our solar system, the planets, dwarf planets, ect.

If you look at what each zodiac sign rules over, it corresponds with the powers of each known Astral Body we know about in the SAMS universe.

Leo rules over the sun (not Sundrop but the actual sun). We know second hand from Castor and Pollux that he can control fire which is very similar to what the sun practically does.

Taurus can destroy planets and rules over Venus, the planet that’s practically destroying itself.

Gemini rules over Mercury which represents communication, mentality, thinking patterns, ect. Castor and Pollux can see and hear everything separately, and feel everything together.

This also supports the Frank is Pisces theory that’s been circulating as Pisces rules over Neptune which represents dreams, fantasies, and consciousness. We’ve seen Frank knock Stitchrathe and Bloodmoon unconscious while also showing them visions.

Now for what really blows my mind about this.

One of the Astral Bodies we haven’t heard (as far as I know) mentioned yet is Sagittarius. Sagittarius rules over Jupiter, a planet known for its huge storms and dangerous weather patterns.

And who can control weather? Lunar

We know that Astral Bodies can be and have been reborn. We know Lunar got his powers by “being in the wrong place at the right time”.

I think Lunar might be Sagittarius reborn or at least has a part of their powers.

The Astral Bodies also have the personalities that seem typical for the people within that Zodiac range. Lunar acts like a Sagittarius would. I would know, because I’m one!

This would also explain why Gemini specifically went to assess and train Lunar as Gemini are very compatible with Sagittarius. Leo is very compatible with Sagittarius as well which is probably why he seems excited at the idea of visiting Lunar. Taurus on the other hand is one of the least compatible signs with Sagittarius which may explain why Taurus is very dismissive of Lunar.

Thank you for coming to my info dump, needed to get this out while the thought was still clear!

[thorns-and-rosewings]

This will be a short theory but a theory nonetheless...

So what we learned today is that Frank still mourns over his lost partner... God that stung... Honestly in spite of his limited speech capabilities, his brief appearances and his interactions with the various cast, Forkface is becoming one of the best fleshed out characters in the show while still being mysterious. And he apparently has an interest in revenge...

I think this is about to go very bad for Bloodmoon...

If my hypothesis on Frank secretly being an Astral, specifically Pisces, is correct and if as Pisces he has a certain degree of power over a dreamscape/mindscape... Well... I can think of an oddly appropriate punishment they might inflict on Bloody.

What if he kills off one of the Bloodtwins?

It would be an... Oddly appropriate punishment. Firstly Bloodmoon killed his lover, the first individual who canonly cared about Frank and it's clear that wound still hurts him. Why would Frank let Bloodmoon off easy? If he's just dead he won't suffer like Frank currently is... Killing one of the twins and letting the other just rot in misery seems far more appropriate. Due to the fact that the ONLY individual both of the twins care about is each other. This would WRECK Bloody almost beyond repair.

Also, another possible tidbit that could further lead us to having a bit of proof of 'Frank is Pisces' is because he IS mourning...

Could that be why Castor said it's unlikely that Pisces would evaluate Lunar? Because the stars are aware Pisces is mourning someone? Even if they don't know who or where?

Just my thoughts on the subject, likely wrong but at least a little plausible I think...

[possumsarenice]

I HAVE A THEORY ON WHO BROUGHT ECLIPSE BACK.

Ruin built him before he was cured as a failsafe. And whatever directives Eclipse was built with are meant to restore Ruin to his previous-virus infected self in case he ever was cured. And he built Eclipse to put on a show to distract Sun and Moon from him so when he does get re-infected they won’t notice. He probably had it set up so Eclipse would show up a few months after he was cured so it wouldn’t be suspicious.

[joltyflare]

(Sun and Moon Show Theory # 1: Ruin Still Does Have Another AI Inside His Body)

I've done a few rants now...time for my first theory post!!

So, Ruin is one of the most mysterious characters in the entire series. When he first appeared, he was a maniac who just wanted to torture and kill everyone in sadistic ways.

Or so he seemed.

It was then revealed that the Creator of his universe inflicted all the animatronics with a virus that made them all evil and sadistic and that Ruin was one of these many animatronics.

Or so he seemed.

When he banished Sun and Moon to Ruin's dimension, they managed to get a cure, return to their home, inject Ruin with it, and possibly cure him.

Ahem... Or so it seemed...

After this, he was always a little suspicious but he at least seemed different from his former maniac self. He was no longer seeking out others to play insane "games" that were very sadistic in nature and usually involved some sort of physical suffering. He seemed meek and shy as well as terribly clumsy as well as a little eccentric and, let's face it...not the brightest.

But there always was still that doubt that he wasn't fully cured and that he was behind the return of the infamous Eclipse. Or, if he was cured, still had some plans going on in the background. After all, not much was known about Eclipse other than that he was the fusion of his Sun and Moon and that he came from a dimension destroyed by the Creator there. It would make sense for him to still have motives that would cause him to do strange things. He was also proven to be a good actor more than once. The fandom was split in half on the decision of whether or not to believe that he was innocent but it has been proven that he was indeed NOT innocent.

Yet the common consensus was that he was faking not being cured or that he was cured and was just pretending he didn't bring Eclipse back and wasn't doing anything wrong. Nobody really thought about the possibility that he had also been pretending to have the virus all along and never really had it! Yet he claims that was the case and that he had simply been a carrier, stating that his whole manic behaviour was all an act to get rid of Sun and Moon so that he could use their home to start prepping his plans to get rid of the Creator Council.

So, it seems that Ruin is a very, very good actor. Most of what he has done has been an act. His manic, sadistic, chaos-loving "virus self" and his shy, clumsy, frankly adorable self were simply personas.

But one thing that has remained consistent is the prospect of him having another entity trapped within his body, one that he's possibly blocking from having control somehow. We've seen this happen quite a few times with characters in this series at this point so it's obviously possible.

There have been a few hints to this being the case, such as when he rescued Foxy (before beating him to a pulp lol), was interrogated the first time, and after Moon and Solar went through his memories. The second instance could quite easily be an act and it would make sense if it was. However...why would he have done so when rescuing Foxy or when waking up after having had his mind scrubbed? These instances also take place in both his virus persona and innocent persona phases.

When he saved Foxy in that one MGAFS episode and beat him up (which I may make a post on itself), another personality seemed to interrupt him beating up Foxy and apologized profusely for what was going on. There was the implication that this personality was his good side and was trapped in his body and couldn't control it, with Ruin somehow suppressing it. Everyone assumed this was his non-virus-afflicted self but in recent episodes, he said he was just actin like he had a virus. Still, this scene is very odd. He seemed to genuinely be losing control and, yes, he is a VERY GOOD ACTOR and all but why would he have done that? Was it because he himself felt bad and he felt so guilty he wanted to act out that second personality apologizing? Was it because he wanted to really hammer in the story that he was under the influence of a virus to the point where he'd pretend his non-virus self came out at that moment to convince Foxy too?

It just struck me as odd, you know? This personality didn't have the accent (though I assumed this could be a retcon at first and it still could be even if my theory is correct). I'm not sure why but I just feel like this was a genuine moment.

But what really made me think someone else is being suppressed in Ruin's mind is when Moon scrubbed his mind and Ruin woke up and said "our head is spinning." When Moon questioned his use of the word "our", Ruin seemed to get quite defensive. For all he acting that he does, I don't think he would incriminate himself by saying something like this on purpose. I believe this was a genuine slip-up on his behalf like there was someone else there he was referring to. After all, he was doing his best to make it so that Moon was not suspicious of him in any way. As far as Ruin was concerned, his innocent persona had no secret side. There would have been no benefit for him to have pretended it did have another personality in it.

He also seemed to be muttering something to himself about someone being free soon during that episode where he reveals himself to Sun and waits for Moon to show up. Sure, he could have been referring to the dimensions that are being saved by the Creator Council's downfall being freed from their grasp, but it's still an odd word choice if that is the case.

It's the mind-scrubbing episode mixed with the Foxy episode that does it for me though. My theory is that there is someone else stuck in his head who doesn't agree with the methods Ruin has for ending the Creator Council. Someone who is a lot more peaceful than he is and who doesn't like that others have to suffer for this goal to be achieved. I think Ruin is suppressing this side of himself but I think he interacts with him from time to time. We know that this is something that can happen.

I think that this is the side of him that has the "sweet Sun voice", as others have called it in the past when wondering why it had an accent and "cured Ruin" doesn't. But just who is it? According to what Ruin said in his backstory episode, his Sun and Moon merged and ended up as him. They weren't separate and became one entity, right? But, with the way the episode ends, he doesn't exactly say much about how the process went or what happened after. Did something go wrong? Did another entity get involved and, perhaps, Moon got merged with them by accident instead of with Sun? (I say Moon due to the non-British voice I mentioned being Sun, meaning it would've had to have been Moon to have been merged or lost had something gone wrong) Could something have gone wrong later down the line, perhaps when the Creator made Ruin into a carrier of the virus? Had he experimented on Ruin and tampered with him, causing something to occur and possibly create a new personality entirely in the process?

I feel like it's really possible that the Creator could have done something that created Ruin as we know it, introducing another new personality to the singular body. Ruin hates the Creators, all of them, with a passion. He clearly has something personal against them on top of the knowledge they will destroy as many universes as they can with their antics.

When telling Moon he should go mourn the loss of Solar with the rest of the family, Ruin also mentions that he knows what it's like to grieve with others. Ruin has obviously gone through a lot... I mean, yes, we knew he went through a lot after what his dimension went through and all but there's a lot more he isn't telling us. I want to know everything about Ruin!

My theory is something tragic caused Ruin to become the way we know him as today and that he does indeed have another personality within him. While I don't think Ruin himself is evil or anything, I do believe whoever's inside his head is a lot more peaceful and doesn't agree with the way he's going about things. I'd assume if there's someone else within him then he is pretty traumatized from the things he's seen Ruin do at this point. We don't know the details of what happened after Sun and Moon merged. Ruin was very vague. For all I know, it's possible the Moon half of him got destroyed entirely at some point.

Hopefully, we learn more about him soon. He is really, really good at hiding things from everyone but it seems like he's willing to reveal everything soon. I just think he's sharing a body with someone. I don't think he hates this other being but I do think he suppresses him because he doesn't want whoever it is getting in his way of stopping the Creators.

Anyway, I doubt he'll die soon. He mystery plot armour!

I wouldn't say I articulated my thoughts the greatest here and I mostly rambled but I'll post it anyway.

[snowe-zolynn-rogers]

Okay, I’m beginning to be genuinely worried about the new Eclipse and somehow the worry of it is not for Eclipse himself for once.

He seems like he’s completely broken, he doesn’t know why he’s alive or what he’s doing and, when his target is now the Creator (thanks to Ruin), that could become extremely dangerous for everyone in the daycare.

We know that Sun (and possibly still Moon), have the Creator’s backup ingrained in his core and it can’t be erased without completely resetting Sun. So, if Eclipse kills the Creator (if the Creator did remake Eclipse) then the backup is going to activate and the Creator will most likely take over Sun.

Could that be what Backup Eclipse was referring to when Moon killed him when he told Moon that Sun would die in Moon’s arms?

That the Creator will take over Sun after Revived Eclipse kills him? And that the rest of the daycare crew will have to make the difficult choice the daycare crew has to make to fully reset Sun and essentially kill him to free him from the Creator?