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tamelee · 3 months

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Hello! I've seen you around before but never really visiting your page and now i have! (✨I don't regret it✨)

I have an ask but I don't know if you're comfortable about it so answering it is a choice, not an obligation

Ask:

Why do you ship sns?

(i also ship it but i like to ask people what they think about it)

✨I’m very glad you have✨- hi~!

Yes of course. I talked about some of it here

There are quite a few of ships that I like, but I rarely talk about those. I know they’re just that— a ship. But even if there’s more to it… maybe? None of them come even close to the amount of wealth of supporting evidence that SNS holds to prove that yes, Kishimoto sat in front of a desk for 15+ years hunched over an entire love story, deliberately meaning for it to be romantic, but not ever really able to spell it out directly because… Shonen demographics. Probably. Mostly. And company decisions; alas the sequel. (That’s why I don’t really ship SNS, it feels off to me, I rather am a fan? Not important at all, just a distinction I’d like to make anyway.)

And at first it was mostly because other people claim their bond really is romantic through their observations. I wanted to find out for myself and coming to that conclusion took me a lot of digging. The more I did that, the more I started to like SNS, Kishimoto as a storyteller and ‘Naruto’ as a story overall because it stands out in ways other stories don’t.

But.. if you want specifics of my reasons story-wise.. (I will not apologize for the upcoming rant 🧡 you did ask me about SNS after all.. ’s what happens)— feel free to read further:

Major Reason 1— the Manga

Because how do you really start to see layers within a story that aren’t spelled out? I’ve seen some SNS-fans questioning their own beliefs and intuitions, but that’s not a bad thing, nor is it surprising. Kishimoto is a sneaky bastard and we love him for it, but I wouldn’t really agree with people saying how “easy” it is to see true meaning, because “it’s all so obvious” when ‘meaning’ isn’t really always. And it discredits the necessary skill and literary devices Kishimoto used to tell this story from his position as Shonen Mangaka imo. Severely.

Majority of me becoming a fan only started after reading the Manga. Here is where all the extra noise and influence in the Anime from the many (and often different) episode directors and other decision-makers, is removed completely. (I’m not saying that’s all done with ill intent, just, intent best suited for Anime goals that I don’t necessarily agree with in ‘Naruto’s case. I don’t really care otherwise.)

Manga vs. Anime: In Manga is where all the Mangaka’s true subtext is and where their messages through the Theme are a lot more clear than when you view it through episodes. Each episode has separate goals not necessarily tied to the overall Story (like in Manga), but to structure it in a way that optimizes entertainment within the timeframe of an episode. It’s true art of deliberately selecting and stretching of source material. People sometimes don’t believe me when I say that, because if you ignore fillers and the Anime covers the same things as the Manga, surely it won’t make a difference? But it really does. You can use all the extra elements in Animation to strengthen a message (like voice, action, music, pacing and camera-direction), but the opposite is true also. Even as “simple” as coloring can subtly influence subtext. You can use all the elements in whichever way to tell the story— together very powerful, but not all nearly as aligned with the Mangaka’s “truth”. To test this out of curiosity, I have put the Manga and several episodes side by side and when you study a scene from the Manga (a case study), the underlying messages are sometimes completely removed in the Anime. Or other perceptions are strengthened by showing moments a character thinks back on to show what they mean with their words even if it’s irrelevant at the time. It doesn’t mean it’s not relevant at all, it’s just not the same thing as in the Manga. (I don’t recommend testing it the way I have because it takes an ungodly amount of time ><) And it’s only natural for the Anime to do that because… it’s literally their job to fill in episodes in a way they think is best and fits their goals with their audience in mind. Anime and Manga audiences aren’t the same even if someone belongs to both. This is true at least in theory and from my understanding talking to animators when I traveled, they aren’t treated the same if you compare strategies. That’s also why saying Kishimoto helped with certain movies or his approval of whatever doesn’t say too much (or at all) regarding his personal vision regarding the source, because the execution of the final product has too many elements that have nothing to do with his role or skills in the project, whereas that’s completely different with the Manga. It’s fairly obvious in ‘Gaiden’ and Minato’s story as well. Yet his name is always used to prove otherwise because it’s a marketing tactic and it (unfortunately) works.

Major Reason 2— Subverting Expectations

It’s true that a lot about SNS and their bond is just blatant text and spelled out directly making them both sound incredibly insane and incredibly in love. Meaning, that even if you would watch the Anime or read the Manga on a surface level— you’d realize there’s something more going on regardless. If you question whether your intuition is true on this, watch any reaction to certain moments— you’re not alone. It isn’t for nothing that majority of the general audience mockingly calls Sasuke ‘Sasgay’ since the beginning or are only able to filter an opinion about his motivations through what the surface-narrative says it is: bad. (We can talk about that more in a different post.)

Or people hate Naruto for prioritizing something other than his protagonist’ self “should” prioritize; what is narratively seen as “good”. (Konoha for example. Often why people put Konoha vs. Sasuke when there’s a lot more to it and categorizing it as such only enhances that surface view of good vs bad— it works against the argument these people try to make because that automatically puts Sasuke in the bad-category for most people.. ’s kinda funny, but not really.)

Or how there are complaints because neither Naruto or Sasuke have shown even the slightest interest towards their ‘supposed’ (read: Shonen-‘expected’) love-interests because there isn’t any. Arguing that they should love another character simply because the girlies are stalking and fawning over them holds no ground at all, yet people take it as truth because they don’t know where else to look. To accept or even acknowledge the unexpected means you gotta swim a little deeper to explore the rest of the iceberg. (Yes, ‘Naruto’ really is that special.) If you don’t then it’s pretty easy to blame everything on bad writing, but I don’t think that’s fair at all simply because some people are unwilling/unable to actually see what’s truly written in the first place and can’t connect things otherwise because “no that’d be gay” and “it’s not possible, it’s Shonen so the Hero should fall in love with the most obvious girl-option” despite there being no mutual foundation to support a decision like that. Nor is there any significance that contributes to anything else. (Or in ‘Naruto’s case, Kishimoto mocks the idea of them liking these girls back, which should tell you a lot as well.)

Major Reason 3— Subtext, Plot-Goals & Theme

So alright, there’s text. There’s them giving up their goals for each other, willing to trade their lives for the other’s wellbeing or dreams, wanting to understand and reach hearts being each other’s one and only’s in different ways as well as driving strength, motivation and the cause of inner conflicts… but all of its meaning is found in context. (Yes, that thing that people love to ignore to make up their own.) The foundation of SNS’s bond and what it means to them (and even other characters) is primarily subtext weaved through their character arcs. Their change as a character has all to do with each other and very little with the actual plot, hence their final battle being an emotional one and more climactic (in theory of storytelling) than the actual war.

And yeah, possibly the reason why no one could really connect with the war was because it actually had little meaning beyond the surface.

Naruto was already celebrated as future Hokage and got the acknowledgement he believed would make him happy. But it didn’t, not for long.

Sasuke killed both his brother (sorta) and Danzo. He had the perfect opportunity to demolish Konoha because he believed that would be the solution, but he didn’t. Because he realized he had to question the former Hokage and learn more to tackle the problem behind his suffering (the system) on a larger scale. (Revolution.)

These things by itself should tell you there is more to it, because had it been any other story, it would’ve been over. It’s the entire revelation that halts a story completely, but it went on didn’t it? The war only strengthened Sasuke’s resolve for his plan for revolution (we can talk about that in another post) and Naruto’s status as Hero is conflicting and can’t actually ever soothe his anger (in fact, you can see during the war that it became worse) which is why Kishimoto sorta lamely (I’m sorry) brushed the problems off during the Waterfall of Truth arc… by having Naruto believe in himself (which he already did) for arguably the wrong reasons. Although admirable and touching, it’s not very believable considering the rules Kishimoto set before.

So, their arcs continue and the characters have to keep growing. As Main-characters, it’s saying “you aren’t there yet, there’s something you have to discover still”. It isn’t “anyway, you still have a war to fight”, because the war isn’t an obstacle to their inner needs. It’s plot conflict mostly. When it comes to Naruto and Sasuke, Kishimoto masterfully used plot conflict between each other as an obstacle to represent how they feel. Naruto’s existence really is an obstacle to Sasuke’s goal, but you gotta wonder why exactly that is. Naruto couldn’t ever become Hokage if he couldn’t save a friend, but if that’s true, then Naruto failed long before that, so why is Sasuke so special, huh? Hehe.

On top of all that, overcoming these obstacles means they have to fight for it— emotionally and literally. And fight they do, which is why it is so emotional, because it’s both. The discovery lies in acceptance, something a character can’t go back from in a good story and it’s very prevalent during their conversation after VotE2 and Sasuke’s inner monologue at the end. They are each other’s answer to the Thematic questions the story posed in the beginning. These aren’t “can Naruto become Hokage?” Or “Will Sasuke decide to destroy Konoha?” Or “will our heroes be able to win the war?”, those are plot, not Theme and they don’t argue for a Universal truth nor does it repeat throughout the story constantly like their bond is. It's why Sasuke's "I've lost" has nothing to do with giving up the reason behind his goal, nor the physical fight they just had.

Together it creates a promise saying their understanding is the solution to the Narutoverse’s problem we unfortunately weren’t able to see in action because it jumped from that to delulu lala-land. But that didn’t make the former any less true.

Because if it wasn’t, then Kishimoto spent 72 volumes proving a message he never intended to prove which is ridiculous. As is saying that doing so is accidental (lmao).

And come on now, if their love for each other is the growth within their Character Arcs, the answer to the problems the Theme and Plot posed, both supported by Context and Subtext with some insane blatant Text on top, then I’m sold completely.

Ooohhh and don’t get me started on the insane amount of symbolisms and metaphoric elements and how Kishimoto used minor characters to support and deepen its meaning because I'll be typing forever... ><

#asktamelee #sns talk #manga talk #story talk #I can say more but I think 2000+ words should be enough for now ><#and yeah we all know all the sns-moments #but I like viewing it through the elements of story because I think #personally #that it strengthens the overall argument #which is a win-win

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