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mappinglasirena · 1 year

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Awesome job!! What is the cargo tonnage and expected price? Thanks!

Thank you so much for the compliment! And I'm very sorry I'm only getting around to your message now, I hope my answer is not too late to be useful.

Though I'm afraid it might not turn out terribly useful in general, since I can't give a precise answer to the first part of your question - and I'm not entirely sure what you mean with the second part 😅

But let's start with the first: It's really difficult to say what the cargo capacity of La Sirena might be, given that we've never seen her cargo bay. Nor even a proper sketch of what her cargo bay might have been intended to look like. The closest we get is this cutaway from the "Set Me Up" featurette:

On the left-hand side of the cutaway, you can see what is likely supposed to be a cargo bay at the bottom, leading to the big cargo doors. But technically, the space above that is the engine room, and given all the slightly arbitrary geometry in there, I'm not sure any of these spaces in the model were fully thought out by the production team or should be used to draw conclusions about the in-universe ship.

And even taking this model at face-value, it's still really difficult to evaluate the size of the cargo bay. The set of the front part of Sirena, as it was designed and built, is too large to fit into this model. You'd have to make a bunch of adjustments to either the size of the ship or the size of the interiors, and that would have more or less drastic impacts on how large the cargo bay would turn out to be in comparison.

Also, it's very much a question of how the ship is loaded. In an early design phase, all the open spaces along both decks of the ship were supposed to hold modular cargo containers.

Quoting from the Eaglemoss Official Starships Collection Special Issue on La Sirena:

[Art Director Rob] Johnson gave the interior an exposed framework that modular rooms were designed to fit into. The cargo would have done the same job, with different-shaped containers made to fit in the voids in the bulkheads. The cargo was never added and Johnson says what you see is “a skeleton without the organs.”

This is an early design of what this modular cargo might have looked like, also from the booklet.

When we meet Rios and La Sirena in season 1, the only cargo we see are a number of crates strewn around the upper and lower decks.

It stands to reason he wouldn't have too much freight on board, since he has just been hired to ferry Picard to destinations unknown, which doesn't really combine well with any scheduled cargo run. But whether there are these sort of modular containers somewhere in-universe that might be fitted in between the ribs of the ship is never answered.

Apart from storage space inside the ship, though, there is also the fact that Sirena was conceptualized as a tug. Some of the assembly at her back serves as a tether for cargo modules that can be strung together like the cars of a freight train.

At that point, the cargo tonnage of the ship expands dramatically and becomes a question of engine power and warp mechanics that nobody can answer in any meaningful way.

So, the answer to "how much cargo can Sirena transport?" is "almost impossible to answer"it's pretty much impossible to say". Depending on how much you want to bring production design intentions into it, the available space varies between "as many of the sorts of crates we see used in the show stacked along the two decks we know exist for certain" and "that plus some unseen cargo bay" and "densely stacked modular cargo containers designed to slot into all parts of the ship alongside the living quarters and holodeck, plus the same in cargo bay, and a train of freight modules hitched to the back of the ship."

As for the "price": I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here. How much this sort of ship would cost to acquire? How much you would be charged to have your cargo hauled by one of these freighters? What we think Picard might have paid Rios to take him on his little adventure? Something else entirely?

Money is always tricky in Star Trek, but the core of the United Federation of Planets is supposed to be a moneyless, post-scarcity society. If we go by the strictest interpretation, if Rios found Sirena on Earth, he wouldn't have had to pay anything for her. Same goes for shipping costs. If a Kaplan F-17 freighter were operated legally anywhere within or near the core of the Federation, I assume you wouldn't have to pay to acquire their services.

Now, once we move into the further reaches of Federation space, where people do still use money for the exchange of goods and services, things get even more complicated.

According to the designers' original intent, the Kaplan F-17 is fairly old. It was suggested that Sirena was built anywhere between 50 and 100 years before the start of season 1 (which is set in 2399). Acquiring such an old-fashioned ship might not have incurred a huge cost. Then again, she has souped-up engines and weapons, which either Rios or some previous owner added (same with the modular cabins, holodeck, transporter, etc. inside), and which might all affect the price.

And if we're talking about shipping costs, Rios, of course, is operating outside the typical post-capitalism norms of the Federation (and outside Federation space often enough to know e.g. the political situation in and around Vashti fairly well). But it's unclear whether he'd be paid in gold-pressed latinum or some other currency, and the value of any of those are pretty much impossible to know, anyway.

I think in beta canon, i.e. Rogue Elements by John Jackson Miller, we also don't get an exact number for what Rios pays for Sirena, though the down-payment is made in gold-pressed Latinum, and it takes him months to work off the rest of the price. But it's been a while since I've read the book, so I can't give you any more details on that off the top of my head.

Perhaps I might be able to give you some better suggestions about price and cargo if you let me know in a bit more detail what you want to know and what you need it for? (i.e. just out of general curiosity, or for story-writing purposes, or to size a 3D model properly, or....)

I hope I understood your question correctly, and I'm sorry if this answer isn't particularly satisfying 😅 If you're looking for info for a specific reason or project (just out of curiosity, for story-writing purposes, to size a 3D model of the ship more accurately, ...), maybe I might be able to offer more insights or at least point you to some other places that might be able to help?

EIther way, I hope that this was at least a somewhat informative read, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to write about this bit of design history!

#star trek picard #star trek la sirena #la sirena #cargo spaces #design #eaglemoss #rogue elements #rob johnson #mark yang #long post #asked and answered #@voightkampffsblog

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sshbpodcast · 1 year

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Shuttle, Shuttle, Boil and Buttle: Shuttlecraft in Star Trek

By Ames

Diagrams emphatically not to scale here.

A Star to Steer Her By is hitting the open road today. Or open space, I suppose. Pack a lunch for a nice day trip because you can’t get too far in a shuttlecraft in Star Trek, but you still need some flexibility outside your massive hero ship. We’ve covered all those Federation starships before (check out parts 1, 2, 3, and 4 here!). Like they say, “warp’s fine if you like going fast in a straight line,” but what if we wanna do some offroading? Now it’s the little guys’ time to shine!

We’re only going to be looking at classic Trek shuttles from The Original Series through Enterprise because newer series just have too many types of shuttles to count and also because Ex Astris Scientia has a great selection of these shuttles chronicled for easier reference. So strap in and scroll on to see all the screengrabs we could find and listen to this week’s podcast episode (discussion at 1:01:56) for a couple games of “I Spy.” It’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

[Images © CBS/Paramount, Ex Astris Scientia, Eaglemoss Ltd., probably others]

TOS: Class F

This simple boxy affair is probably the most recognizable shuttlecraft, especially after the Galileo-7’s starring turn in the eponymous “The Galileo Seven,” among many other episodes throughout TOS. It’s definitely function over form with this basic brick of a vehicle, but that just makes it more endearing.

TAS: Aquashuttle

The Animated Series had a little more flexibility to showcase some new designs, though just how much was getting designed is still really minimal on that cheapskate show. It was nice to see a craft that could transition from space to atmosphere to water when we saw this eraser stub of an aquashuttle in “The Ambergris Element,” so that’s something at least.

TAS: Copernicus-type

We meet the Copernicus in “The Slaver Weapon” and it’s a cute little mosquito of a ship. Everything about her is just so pointy and sharp, and she looks fast to boot. We know very little else about this type of craft, but we appreciate her typical nacelles and her speedboat shape.

TAS: Heavy shuttle

Comparatively more bulbous than the Copernicus we just looked at is this much heavier-looking shuttle from “Mudd’s Passion.” Again, we don’t see much of this thing, but it looks like it’s more durable and able to take a bit of a beating, and it even has a little bit of curve to its windshield!

TOS Films: Travel pod

There’s much more budget by the time we get to The Motion Picture, so the model for this small travel pod that ferries crewmen around spacedock is pretty logical even if some of the compositing is… less so. The purpose of the pod is so simple that its design really reflects that. It even returns for a hot second in the final scene of The Voyage Home.

TOS Films: Executive shuttle

We catch a couple of glimpses of the SD-103 Executive Shuttle from The Undiscovered Country, and again, it’s a pretty simple shape that does its job and then goes home for the day without needing to do much more. This one has a polite little wedge shape, clearly allowing the most room it can to move people back and forth and that’s that.

TOS Films: Type 4 Shuttle

In The Final Frontier, we have a new Galileo and it’s looking like a pretty obvious progression from the original television show. This is what the Type F would look like if they’d had the money and time in the 60s, and we’re digging it. It has the same kind of pointy front, a window that could still stand to be bigger, and empty cavernous space inside that we expect from a shuttle.

TNG Films: Hawking

I’m putting this one back to back with the Type 4 so you can appreciate the very slight differences between the Galileo and the Hawking that we see in Generations. Is it just the added side windows that’s particularly different? And why did it take them so long to add side windows in the first place?

TNG: Type 15 Shuttlepod

Let’s step back to the rest of TNG, now that we’ve already gotten things out of order. We see these things throughout Next Gen and they’re like tiny little remote-controlled toy cars. You can barely fit one person in these things, let alone anything more than that. We hope you’re not flying too far because these flying mousedroids look cramped!

TNG: Type 6 Shuttle

We see these things throughout TNG and Voyager. You’ll notice they are very very similar to the shuttle from Generations above, but a little more squished. One could surmise that the model designers whipped out the Type 4 from The Final Frontier since it was already of the necessary quality for film, and decided to take a cue from this shuttle for the extra windows!

TNG: Type 7 Shuttle

A new design for yet another new Galileo. These things run concurrently with the Type 6 as we also see them consistently throughout TNG, but their design is much more distinct. Their edges are more rounded and their rumps more spankable. Their nacelles also look more like the Enterprise-D’s nacelles. They even come with two options for their much more curved window unit: long and extra long!

TNG Films: Type 11 Shuttle

Picard and Worf chase Data around in Insurrection in one of these cute little doorstops. Everything about these shuttles looks pointy, from the face to the windows to the nacelles! It pretty much clicks that this is the kind of craft you’d find on the Enterprise-E, a ship that’s much longer and more streamlined than the rounder and more bloated D.

TNG Films: Captain’s yacht

In Insurrection, we also steal a glimpse of the Cousteau, also known as the captain’s yacht. What the hell a more weaponized ship like the Enterprise-E needs with a yacht is debatable, but it’s got some of the more movie-era design elements on it, like the pointier nacelles and tapered face. We also like that it looks like those nacelles tuck in for easy storage!

TNG Films: Argo

One last instance from the TNG films and it’s not a favorite (both the film and this vessel). In Nemesis, Picard and friends go down to a primitive planet in the Argo (great name; I’ll admit that), whose purpose seems mostly to be carrying a dune buggy for no damn reason. That aside, this shuttle also just looks unfriendly. More like a fighter jet than a diplomatic craft and that’s not our thing.

DS9: Type 10 Shuttle

Apparently this thing, the Chaffee, lives on the Defiant, though we’re damned if we can figure out where because the Defiant doesn’t even seem big enough to house a full-sized shuttle of any kind, much less a shuttle bay. But in “The Sound of Her Voice” we do get a quick shot or several of this weird little dustbuster of a ship that shares the same tucked-in nacelle look as its mommy ship. Weird.

DS9: Type 18 Shuttle

Oh boy, I’m glad Deep Space Nine mostly used Runabouts instead of these things because they’re goofy as all get out. They do get used in season 3 episodes “The Search” and “Destiny” before we settled into the Defiant, and it’s a good thing because the Type 18 just looks like an old school UFO or something, with a protruding undercarriage like a submarine ride in an amusement park. This design is just trying too hard.

VOY: Type 8 Shuttle

We see these things mostly in early Voyager before the Delta Flyer is introduced, and they look so similar to the Type 6 in TNG that they may as well have not bothered with the update. When in doubt, always check if the nacelles look like they belong on your hero ship or not. That’s my rule of thumb, anyway.

VOY: Type 9 Shuttle (AKA Class 2)

That rule also works on the other shuttle we see pretty frequently in Voyager, especially notably in “Threshold” when the Cochrane breaks the warp 10 barrier. It’s a nifty little ship, closer to the shuttles that we saw in Insurrection than the other series ships in that it looks streamlined and zippy and a little bit like a phaser without a handle.

VOY: Delta Flyer

Once Voyager introduces the Delta Flyer in “Extreme Risk” early in season 5, we use this thing all over the place, even replacing it almost perfectly after it shatters to confetti in “Unimatrix Zero.” And it’s a solid design! It’s clear Tom put a lot of effort into the ship because it looks incredibly sturdy with its triangular shape, embedded nacelles like the Defiant has, and nifty front window that almost reminds me of a stained-glass window.

VOY: SC-4 Shuttle

This special, slightly futuristic shuttle visits us in the series finale “Endgame.” It’s a lot like the Class 2 shuttle in its shape and resemblance to a phaser, but this one’s also got nifty shields like a suit of armor that it fits within! So that’s something to look forward to later in our watch.

ENT: Inspection pod

Moving on to Enterprise, the last leg of our day trip. We’ve mentioned before how much we appreciate the design elements in Enterprise looked like the stepping stones between today’s space technology and the future aesthetics we see in Star Trek, and this little pod with its docking side and its conical shape flat out looks like the module on a modern rocket ship! Cool!

ENT: Shuttlepod

We see an absolute ton of these things in Enterprise (in a majority of episodes, as a matter of fact!) because the transporter didn’t quite work consistently yet. So it’s shuttles or nothing for our prequel friends and this one is actually incredibly cute, with its sorta submarine feel and its cyclops-eye window like a porthole looking out into space.

— Get that barricade ready as we come into the shuttlebay. It’s so good to be back because we’ve got so much to do around the ship! We’re still traveling through the Delta Quadrant with Voyager over on SoundCloud or your favorite podcast application, we’re still sending out a distress signal on Facebook and Twitter, and we’re shuttling off to buttle-oh!

#star trek #star trek podcast #podcast #shuttlecraft #the original series #the animated series #the next generation #deep space nine #voyager #enterprise #the motion picture #the voyage home #the final frontier #generations #insurrection #nemesis #galileo #delta flyer

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