#rogue elements

[mappinglasirena]

Awesome job!! What is the cargo tonnage and expected price? Thanks!

Thank you so much for the compliment! And I'm very sorry I'm only getting around to your message now, I hope my answer is not too late to be useful.

Though I'm afraid it might not turn out terribly useful in general, since I can't give a precise answer to the first part of your question - and I'm not entirely sure what you mean with the second part 😅

But let's start with the first: It's really difficult to say what the cargo capacity of La Sirena might be, given that we've never seen her cargo bay. Nor even a proper sketch of what her cargo bay might have been intended to look like. The closest we get is this cutaway from the "Set Me Up" featurette:

On the left-hand side of the cutaway, you can see what is likely supposed to be a cargo bay at the bottom, leading to the big cargo doors. But technically, the space above that is the engine room, and given all the slightly arbitrary geometry in there, I'm not sure any of these spaces in the model were fully thought out by the production team or should be used to draw conclusions about the in-universe ship.

And even taking this model at face-value, it's still really difficult to evaluate the size of the cargo bay. The set of the front part of Sirena, as it was designed and built, is too large to fit into this model. You'd have to make a bunch of adjustments to either the size of the ship or the size of the interiors, and that would have more or less drastic impacts on how large the cargo bay would turn out to be in comparison.

Also, it's very much a question of how the ship is loaded. In an early design phase, all the open spaces along both decks of the ship were supposed to hold modular cargo containers.

Quoting from the Eaglemoss Official Starships Collection Special Issue on La Sirena:

[Art Director Rob] Johnson gave the interior an exposed framework that modular rooms were designed to fit into. The cargo would have done the same job, with different-shaped containers made to fit in the voids in the bulkheads. The cargo was never added and Johnson says what you see is “a skeleton without the organs.”

This is an early design of what this modular cargo might have looked like, also from the booklet.

When we meet Rios and La Sirena in season 1, the only cargo we see are a number of crates strewn around the upper and lower decks.

It stands to reason he wouldn't have too much freight on board, since he has just been hired to ferry Picard to destinations unknown, which doesn't really combine well with any scheduled cargo run. But whether there are these sort of modular containers somewhere in-universe that might be fitted in between the ribs of the ship is never answered.

Apart from storage space inside the ship, though, there is also the fact that Sirena was conceptualized as a tug. Some of the assembly at her back serves as a tether for cargo modules that can be strung together like the cars of a freight train.

At that point, the cargo tonnage of the ship expands dramatically and becomes a question of engine power and warp mechanics that nobody can answer in any meaningful way.

So, the answer to "how much cargo can Sirena transport?" is "almost impossible to answer"it's pretty much impossible to say". Depending on how much you want to bring production design intentions into it, the available space varies between "as many of the sorts of crates we see used in the show stacked along the two decks we know exist for certain" and "that plus some unseen cargo bay" and "densely stacked modular cargo containers designed to slot into all parts of the ship alongside the living quarters and holodeck, plus the same in cargo bay, and a train of freight modules hitched to the back of the ship."

As for the "price": I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here. How much this sort of ship would cost to acquire? How much you would be charged to have your cargo hauled by one of these freighters? What we think Picard might have paid Rios to take him on his little adventure? Something else entirely?

Money is always tricky in Star Trek, but the core of the United Federation of Planets is supposed to be a moneyless, post-scarcity society. If we go by the strictest interpretation, if Rios found Sirena on Earth, he wouldn't have had to pay anything for her. Same goes for shipping costs. If a Kaplan F-17 freighter were operated legally anywhere within or near the core of the Federation, I assume you wouldn't have to pay to acquire their services.

Now, once we move into the further reaches of Federation space, where people do still use money for the exchange of goods and services, things get even more complicated.

According to the designers' original intent, the Kaplan F-17 is fairly old. It was suggested that Sirena was built anywhere between 50 and 100 years before the start of season 1 (which is set in 2399). Acquiring such an old-fashioned ship might not have incurred a huge cost. Then again, she has souped-up engines and weapons, which either Rios or some previous owner added (same with the modular cabins, holodeck, transporter, etc. inside), and which might all affect the price.

And if we're talking about shipping costs, Rios, of course, is operating outside the typical post-capitalism norms of the Federation (and outside Federation space often enough to know e.g. the political situation in and around Vashti fairly well). But it's unclear whether he'd be paid in gold-pressed latinum or some other currency, and the value of any of those are pretty much impossible to know, anyway.

I think in beta canon, i.e. Rogue Elements by John Jackson Miller, we also don't get an exact number for what Rios pays for Sirena, though the down-payment is made in gold-pressed Latinum, and it takes him months to work off the rest of the price. But it's been a while since I've read the book, so I can't give you any more details on that off the top of my head.

Perhaps I might be able to give you some better suggestions about price and cargo if you let me know in a bit more detail what you want to know and what you need it for? (i.e. just out of general curiosity, or for story-writing purposes, or to size a 3D model properly, or....)

I hope I understood your question correctly, and I'm sorry if this answer isn't particularly satisfying 😅 If you're looking for info for a specific reason or project (just out of curiosity, for story-writing purposes, to size a 3D model of the ship more accurately, ...), maybe I might be able to offer more insights or at least point you to some other places that might be able to help?

EIther way, I hope that this was at least a somewhat informative read, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to write about this bit of design history!

[helene-art]

Happy New Year 2025 🙇🏻‍♀️

(Better late than never, hehe ಠ⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ⁠ಠ )

[mtg-cards-hourly]

Sootwalkers

"Why allow the fires of others to burn, when ours do not? Why leave them content, while we suffer? If there is to be misery, let it be borne by all."

Artist: Nils Hamm TCG Player Link Scryfall Link EDHREC Link

[haaaaaaaaaaaave-you-met-ted]

Silvos, Rogue Elemental by Carl Critchlow

[machrealgirl]

elias really tried to "noo don't go into the unknowing you're so sexy aha" tim and i don't think we talk about that enough.

[wanderingmind867]

The Golden Age version of the Scarecrow didn't even use fear toxin. He was just a psychology professor who turned to crime to buy more books. And also because he became greedy when he was fired for shooting a gun in the classroom (which was apparently a big no even in the 1940s), but yeah. No fear toxin. No horrible hallucinations. Just a weirdo in a scarecrow outfit who knew a lot about fear, and wanted to steal money. He did more than just that, but he only made two golden age appearances. It's not like I have much to go off of. But in essence: earth-two scarecrow is the best scarecrow, solely because of the lack of fear toxins. I'd kind of like to see a version of Scarecrow that goes back to these bare bones and fleshes them out more. Because imagine what you could do if you took fear toxin out of the equation, and left him his professorship as his sole gimmick. It could have changed the game.

[kirkwallguy]

btw if veilguard's orb and dagger have no haters i am dead. it's literally like they realised staff fighting sucks and they needed to invent an alternative to make it fun.

[kaliesuriens]

Man I swear If god give me the hability to draw and to animate properly, and money to hire voice actors, I would make trailers for the rogues, like the mercs from Team Fortress 2.

[rogueslove]

Uncanny X-Men #336

[lilacharbour]

I think Future Rogue is a bit silly, because whilst you have Natsu over there with an unlimited supply of fire thanks to Atlas Flame.

You also have Motherglare and all the little dragon things that are shooting lasers. Future Rogue SHOULD be able to eat those lasers (it might just be the lighting, but they seem white in colour) or at the very least the light they produce can create shadows that he should also be able to eat, which is based on the assumption he has to eat a shadow and not just darkness because otherwise it’s nighttime and he could just eat anything.

Yet he doesn’t. Great for Natsu and everyone else though.

[helene-art]

Strange choice of colors 🦆

The image responsible for this disaster ⬇️

[longitudinalwaveme]

Gaps Between Character Appearances: Flash vol. 1

Basically what it says on the tin: an examination of the longest amounts of time a character was absent for during the Silver/Bronze Age Flash run.

Heroes and Supporting Cast:

Barry Allen: Since he was the main character, Barry was, unsurprisingly, basically in every issue of the Flash. There are therefore no significant gaps in his appearances.

Iris West-Allen: Iris was in pretty much every issue from 1956 to 1979, when she was killed by the Reverse-Flash. She then disappeared from the comic until 1985, when she returned for the end of the Trial of the Flash arc---an absence of six years.

Henry and Nora Allen: Their biggest absence was a seven-year gap between 1966 and 1973. There was then a second large gap between their appearance in 1973 and their reappearance in 1978.

Daphne Dean: Her biggest gap was an 11-year disappearance from 1966 to 1977. She then had another large gap between 1977 and 1982.

Ira West: His biggest gap was a 3-year gap between 1975 and 1978. He then pretty much disappeared from the book entirely after 1979.

Solovar: His biggest absence was a 13-year gap between 1965 and 1978.

Wally West: As Kid Flash, he appeared pretty consistently, either with Barry or on his own, until the very end of the run. The biggest gap is a two-year span between 1981 and 1983.

Patty Spivot: She didn't have any gaps of more than a year at any point between 1977 and and 1984, her full run on the series.

Fiona Webb: Fiona didn't have any gaps of more than a year for her full run on the series, either, which lasted from 1980 to 1985.

Joan Garrick: Her biggest gap in the Flash series was between 1978 and 1982 (the latter of which was her last appearance in Barry's run).

Jay Garrick: His biggest gap is the same 4-year gap as Joan's (between 1978 and 1982). He then disappears from the comic for its last three years (most of which were taken up by the never-ending Trial of the Flash arc).

Dexter Myles: His biggest gap was a roughly three-year period between 1970 and 1973.

Villains:

Professor Zoom the Reverse-Flash: The biggest gap in appearances he had prior to his death was the 5-year gap between 1969 ("Time Times 3 Equals--?") and 1974 ("Green Lantern---Master Criminal of the 25th Century"). After his death in 1980, he effectively disappeared for 3 years, reappearing in 1983 only to die again.

Abra Kadabra: His biggest gap in appearances was the five-year gap between 1972 ("The Flash in Cartoon-Land!") and 1977 ("Kill Me, Flash--Faster, Faster!"). There was also a 4-year gap between 1968 ("The Thief Who Stole All the Money in Central City") and 1972.

Gorilla Grodd: Grodd was absent for seven years, between 1971 (“Beyond the Speed of Life!”, otherwise known as the issue where Digger and James trip the Flash and he dies) and 1978 (“Beyond the Super-Speed Barrier").

Captain Cold: Captain Cold had two fairly sizeable gaps between appearances: a five-year gap between 1969 ("Captain Cold Blows His Cool") and 1974 ("The Hot-Cold War in Central City!"), and a four-year gap between 1977 ("To Believe or Not to Believe!") and 1981 ("Captain Cold's Cold, Cold Flame"). There was also a 3-year gap between his appearance in Showcase #8 and his appearance in Flash #114.

Mirror Master: Mirror Master had a number of two-year gaps between appearances, but never anything more than that. He was the most consistently appearing Flash villain.

Heat Wave: The biggest gap for Heat Wave was basically the same as for Captain Cold---a five-year gap between 1969 and 1974.

Captain Boomerang: Digger disappeared for four years between 1967 ("The Stupendous Triumph of the Six Super-Villains") and 1971 ("Beyond the Speed of Life!"). He was also missing for a 3-year period between 1976 (“The Last Day of June is the Last Day of Central City!”) and 1979 ("Road to Oblivion!").

Trickster: Trickster had a number of 3-year gaps between appearances---between 1965 ("The Trickster's Toy Thefts") and 1968 ("The Swell-Headed Super Hero"), between 1968 and 1971 ("Beyond the Speed of Life!"), between 1971 and 1974 ("The Day I Saved the Flash!", also known as writer Cary Bates' self-insert fanfic), between 1977 ("Prisoner of the Past") and 1980 ("If, At First You Don't Succeed"), and between 1980 and 1983 ("Dead Reckoning").

Weather Wizard: Weather Wizard was absent for six years, from 1967 ("The Race to the End of the Universe") to 1973 ("The Heart that Attacked the World").

Pied Piper: Hartley was absent from 1967 ("The Stupendous Triumph of the Six Supervillains") to 1972 ("The Flash of 1000 Faces"), a gap of five years. He also had a roughly four-year gap between 1977 ("Prisoner of the Past") and 1981 ("The Pied Piper's Paradox Peril"), and a 4-year gap between his first appearance in 1959 and his second appearance in 1963.

The Top: Roscoe was absent for six years, from 1967 ("The Stupendous Triumph of the Six Supervillains") to 1973 ("The Million-Dollar Death Trap!"). He was then basically absent from his death in 1976 to his return as a ghost in 1981, a five-year gap. His last appearance in the comic was in November 1981.

Golden Glider: Her biggest gap was a three-year absence from 1978 (“The Golden Glider’s Final Fling!”) to 1981 ("1981--A Flash Odyssey!"). Her last appearance in the comic was in October 1982.

Rainbow Raider: His biggest gap was a year-and-a-half-to-two year gap between 1981 ("A Stab in the Black!") and 1983 ("Trade Heroes and Win!").

Mr. Element/Dr. Alchemy: There was a six-year gap between Dr. Alchemy's appearance in 1958 ("The Man Who Changed the Earth!") and Mr. Element's appearance in 1964 ("Our Enemy, the Flash!"). Albert Desmond disappeared again from 1966 ("One Bridegroom Too Many!”) to 1972 ("The Curse of the Dragon’s Eye!”), a roughly six-year gap. He also disappeared for another six years between 1974 (“The Fury of the Fire-Demon!”) and 1980 (“Dr. Alchemy and Mr. Desmond"). His last appearance in the series was in September 1980. Alvin only appeared from July to September 1980 during Barry's run, and as such there were no gaps between his appearances.

Paul Gambi: Paul was absent for 10 years between 1963 and 1973, and then had a 9-year gap between 1976 and 1985.

Among the villains, Grodd had the biggest gap between his appearances, since he was gone from the pages of the Flash for seven years. Albert Desmond had the most frequent long absences, though, with three different six-year gaps.

Among the Rogues proper, The Top and the Weather Wizard had the largest gaps between appearances, though the Top's death meant that he was gone for more of the series than Weather Wizard.

[leidensygdom]

I'm gonna hold on a bit before sharing some of the bigger pieces I did for artfight, so welcome to portraitapocalipse town! This is Scoria, @eaglewind13 's earth/fire genasi mix! She's based around lava and I go absolutely feral for elemental hair-

[cocoabubbelle-newblog]

SCOGUE-“Tember”

Day “5”: [🌊🪨🔥💨] Avatar: The Last Airbender

Cocoabubbelle ATLA wasn’t part of the prompt list yes it is [now] shush

[warcraftconceptart]

Invigorate Artist: Dave Kendall World of Warcraft TCG: War of the Elements (2011)

Image cropped from a card scan provided by the WoW TCG scan project.

[bisexualalistairtheirin]

Two week vacation from work starts tomorrow which means I got a hot date with a new Dragon Age: Origins playthrough! I already said it was gonna be a Brosca Zevmancer run and I'll recruit Loghain this time, but everything else is kinda up in the air.