Chai do you think any of the spindlehorse employees find it weird that their boss doesn’t seem to comprehend what Quid Pro Quo even is? Maybe some have expressed it to you, who knows. And needs it explained to her that sexual misconduct in the workplace is bad, not funny, it’s not tragic just for the abuser cause he’s lonely, and isn’t a good basis for a “soulmates” relationship? Did anybody animating Look My Way not have a moment of clarity ‘hey this plot is a little disgusting actually’ ?
Also. Wow. Helluva boss’ “romance” story is actually so toxic that it’s the reason I learned the term for this type of sexual abuse and how to recognise it in the workplace. It’s (unintentionally) told with the type of subtlety Valentino and Angel Dusts story needed. Moments of kindness but also immediate backhanded remarks, power plays, grand romantic gestures mixed with scathing ones and physical boundaries pushed, and just overall confusing behaviour. Like the constant whiplash when stolas appeared in truth seekers. The victim doubting their own memory and his friends saying it’s all in his head.
For others though, younger audiences who love gay ships in any media just for the sake of it being gay, it’s just conditioning them to see it as quirky or the responsibility of the victim to “set the record straight” and negotiate out of sex.
People are actually using it as an example of what coercion is when asked what it is, and many people say it’s taught them how to recognise abuse in their relationship. This is what “stolitz” could have been. A cautionary tale. Stolas and Valentino guilt tripping their employees using various tactics is also educational. Funny enough, if this show gave a damn about its audience that would’ve been a scene in the show, Blitzø convinces himself he’s just in “love” and even with even Millie backing this up, naively finding it cute (being a meta stand in for shippers who don’t really pay attention) Moxxie in discomfort smiles a and says nothing out of fear, and then Loona shows him a info website that even has the term “quid pro quo” in writing for the audience to see and sits down to explain to him he is very much experiencing Stockholm syndrome and abuse. Hell, this crystal thing is just the ‘flowers and chocolates’ part of the abuse cycle.
And I don’t want to go there again but the fact Viv projects onto stolas and Brandon relates to Blitzø a lot when writing him, and the fact Viv shoe horned in that romance in a way he wasn’t in a position to object to since she’s the showrunner? Eerily similar to the characters in universe power dynamic? Yeah that’s a little nightmarish.
Oh lord, remember those days when we all thought that that's exactly where all of this was leading...Blitz being hit with the realization that he is to his employees what Stolas is to him?
Seems like a lifetime ago now.
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Every time I see those little praises about both shows having LGBT representation I’m just like.
1) You do know the closes gay representation in the show is a spider who’s only personality is that he’s gay and constantly looking for sex and Stolitz. A relationship built around lust, deceit, dominance, and I guess Stockholm syndrome if Ep. 6 is anything to go by. Maybe to you social media activist types and attention seekers this is good representation, but to anyone else this insulting.
2) Alastor is only asexual because Vivziepop said so with nothing to back it up other than Alastor saying no to Angel Dust after he offered to give him a blowjob after he asked what Angel Dust was good at. By that regard she can come out tomorrow and say something like Niffty is Alastor’s daughter or Husk is a closet bi who would bang Angel Dust if given the chance and all of y’all would run with it like it’s the gospel when in fact none of this has been presented in either show or official comic. Y’all really need to stop taking word of god at face value.
3) The closes we actually get to an accurate portrayal of a lesbian couple is Charlie and Vaggie. But Vivziepop came out and said that Charlie and Vaggie were never intended to be a couple. But that the shipping side of the fandom and the animators thought they were a couple.
Yeah, more folks need to understand that orientation is not a personality trait. As shown here, there are numerous adjectives that are more specific and helpful in avoiding stereotypes. It's also not a good sign if a character's creator sums up their personality in a single word, and a noun, no less.
As for the Stolitz shippers, I have to wonder: Is this how low your bar is? Are you so desperate for mlm representation in media that you'll support a toxic relationship just because two dudes comprise it? You know other gay/bi/pan characters exist, right?
Now Viv did ask shippers to be respectful of characters' canon identities a while back, though I don't know how those identities will change now that Hazbin's going mainstream. It seems that A24 will generally give creators ample freedom with their creative choices, but I'm worried some producer or studio exec will nix Alastor's asexuality because it supposedly "doesn't sell". (Yet another reason it would've been smarter to keep Hazbin independent.)
And uhhh when did Viv say that about Charlie and Vaggie? Do you have a link? Receipts? This is the first I'm hearing about it. If they're just friends, I guess it makes sense that they didn't kiss or anything in the pilot, but... That's a real dick move if Viv allowed so many people (especially LGBT fans) to believe they were a couple only to pull the rug out from under them.
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Few controversial issues I would like to bring up:
Loo Loo Land:
I'd say he WAS, but once Blitz entered the picture his lust for him made him fall off the rails. Now he's at the point where he invites Blitz to Loo Loo Land to flirt with him despite him coming up with this trip to make Octavia happy - the same Octavia who feels that the whole affair is tearing her home apart.
It is CLEARLY stated, factually, in Stolas’s bio that he had unknowingly — the similar to treating Blitz like a plaything later on — pushed his daughter away, due to flirting with his monthly ONS (one night stand). And yet the minute Stolas realised his mistake he dropped the act of NEEDING a bodyguard and leaves LLL with Octavia in his arms acknowledging that she WAS too old for the theme park.
👏🏻 HE 👏🏻 ACKNOWLEDGED 👏🏻 IT! And y’all — no one in particular just getting way too excited now, ignore the block letters lol 😂) — are saying Stolas is a muthafuckin bad parent for not realising this? The mistake he had now realised he made?
Okay, so he was also a little uncomfortable with Octavia’s passion for taxidermy, dead stuffed animals, but at least he supports her of it regardless (THAT is a definition of 'good dad' okay, yeah, Stolas won’t always get it right, I mean what parent knows everything?
But it doesn’t mean Stolas doesn’t CARE about Octavia. Not like Stella, from what I’ve seen canonically, between 2x01 (child neglect) and 2x02 — I’ll discuss that later furthermore — which wasn’t shown anything positive, like the latter had, or negative at the thought of her daughter nicking her father’s grimoire and going to the human world
(Most likely if it had been brought up Stella would’ve verbally abused Stolas rather than lecturing their daughter who actually needed it)
Also, for the fact that try as he might Stolas never really had a paternalistic role model. Since his own father — King Paimon — was either too busy for him or would forget his childrens' name etc
I’d be lying if I said I really wanted the case, ideally, where Stolas invited Blitz to come to Loo Loo Land for them a hang out — but NOT on a father/daughter day that was majority of the problem — or perhaps to get some paternal advice from him on HOW to act like a proper dad or even wanted to slowly introduce his daughter to the guy he was sleeping with (still not a great idea but you do you boo 😂) and his potential partner once he had divorced Stella
But that didn’t happen which I’m kinda of disappointed about because that DOES correlate with why Blitz was feeling like a “plaything” — not then, because he didn’t have any feelings, but later on in 1x06 onwards — and it also had increased Octavia’s abandonment issues / separation anxiety
So it really didn’t gain any favours from anyone, besides Stolas, because he could hang out with the two people he loves the most in the same place.
Reference:
Seeing Stars (2x02):
After Octavia runs off, Stolas COMPLETELY FORGETS ABOUT HER once he and Blitz are alone and he simps for his acting
In my opinion, I feel like 👏🏻 Stolas 👏🏻 did 👏🏻 not 👏🏻 forget 👏🏻 about 👏🏻 Octavia 👏🏻(Hell! She was his main priority — not as a “precautionary heir” but as his muthafuckin DAUGHTER — to the point of NOT calling Blitz “Blitzy". In fact the former spent MORE time worrying about her safety in the human world
Okay, yes, Stolas did flirt with Blitz ONCE to help him through stage fright — who was hyperventilating and looked to be on the verge of a panic attack) — and had reassured him:
“Blitz, if your performance on stage is half as good as it is in bed, you'll leave them…. breathless.” Stolas subsiding Blitz’s fears, whilst making his interests clear
I don’t particularly call this “simping” it was ONE MINUTE (not even that) of it, as opposed to S1 where that was definitely over the top “simping” entirely because Stolas, factually, had put Blitz on a pedestal above everyone else (yes, even, briefly, his own daughter), but to be fair, he didn’t know how to flirt in a more, what we call, “appropriate” way, because it’s not like he had any experience with his sexuality because he was thrown into marriage from the get-go so, of course, he had gotten so excited that Blitz — his crush since they were kids — came back into his life, but, also was partially worried about him leaving again, so it was almost a codependency thing
But! We are NOT talking a talking about his “season personality” back to the topic at hand; (S2) Stolas certainly wasn’t going to just leave Blitz there filled with anxiety. Okay, yes, after the latter was sure he gotten through to him and hurriedly pushed him into the room, affectionately called him “darling”, and wished him luck.
* But what I’m saying is at least Stolas 👏🏻 isn’t 👏🏻 MEAN 👏🏻 or 👏🏻 SELFISH 👏🏻 about the whole thing because it’s not in his nature (unless it comes to Stella lol; a guy can ONLY be patient and kind for so long)
While Octavia is alone and lost on Earth.
(Part 1)
That wasn’t the case though, so, in my opinion, statement is inaccurate. Okay, yes, Octavia WAS alone and lost to begin with alone — that’s the whole storyline of this episode — but like every falling action to almost resolution — Loona, eventually, tracked her down and gave her sisterly talk about their dads
“Sometimes... sometimes it's not as simple as that. This kind of shit gets messy, and everybody's got issues, especially dads. And sometimes they fuck up -- well, all the time. But, that doesn't mean they don't care." Loona to Octavia talking about their dads
&
"Looking for you. I mean... try to cut your dad some slack. He may not always get it right, but... he's trying. That's more important than you think." Loona talking about Stolas.
(If Stolas’s first priority was HONESTLY Blitz as y’all claim… why would the former turn the human world upside down just to find Octavia? To me if he was prioritising he’d say “I could care less what happened to my daughter. She can look after herself, as long as I’m with you it’s fine” but he didn’t because that would most likely come from S1 undeveloped version of Stolas
(Okay I was exaggerating maybe not even S1 would he say that. That’s more of a Stella comment but y’all get what I’m saying…)
Point is… there’s a HUGE character development between S1 and S2 Stolas, the latter, is TRYING to do the right thing and get HIS life sorted, the way he wants it by; Divorcing Stella. To respect Blitz — calling him by his preferred name — and hopes to become his partner, later in life, once everything is resolved between them.
I think what really bugs me is that people just remember negatively — especially if they’re anti-Stolas, which just makes it “easier” for them to hate him — that he’s snobbish, sexually deprived, cringey, and just really no better than the Goetia family — like the Stella’s and Paimon’s of this world — and their indifference towards commoners
I feel like everyone is just remembering the pilot — the WORST version of himself — rather that the one that is actually currently being progressive and doing his absolute BEST to have the fulfil his life that he wants and actually deserves, despite having an abusive (ex) wife — who stomped it every time Stolas got a chance to be happy — AND to deal with his feelings for Blitz, who had rejected him, because of his ongoing issues
— She also could've been kidnapped by D.H.O.R.K.S for all anyone knew
(Part 2)
As for the D.H.O.R.K.S thing? You’re right. That COULD have happened, yet it didn’t, so I’m not entirely sure where that came from. I WOULD have been be very surprised if Viv brought them back, since they hadn’t been seen since 1x06. And yet, I feel like, if she had gone down that path…
A. That would have been pointless because she hasn’t brought the agents back since S1; inconsistency in my opinion, since they were painted as “important” villains of the story or at least that’s what I got
B. I think that would have been more exciting rather than “oh no my dad is busy so I’ll just run away AGAIN!” which is something I feel like is a repeat of Loo Loo Land and the upcoming 2x12 episode
Now that I honestly think about…
It’s most likely that Stolas WAS vaguely referring to the D.H.O.R.K.S agents — when he voiced how worried he was about Octavia being in danger to Blitz — or it was just in general, which is more understandable as both his daughter and his ONLY precautionary heir.
“Blitz, we don't have time for this. Via could be anywhere. She COULD be in danger.” Stolas to Blitz worried for Octavia’s safety in the human world
Truth Seekers (1x06):
Stolas and Blitz’s relationship is based on Stockholm syndrome (and it’s practically the same as Valentino and Angel’s or at least has the same ambience of it)
Stolitz being “Stockholm Syndrome” relationship
1. That would actually require Stolas (NOT the agents who had) to have physically, as himself, kidnap Blitz and get him to fall in love because of the manipulative attention and sweet nothings that is being given
And before y’all @me no “darling” DOES NOT count because that’s just an English thing regardless for friends, family, or lovers
As or the “Stolas gives the grimoire to Blitz in order for him to continue his business” thing sounds awfully more like a prostitution thing rather than Stockholm
(Which someone has oh-so kindly made me realise that “prostitution” CAN lead to Stockholm syndrome 🤦🏼♀️)
I genuinely think that Blitz DOES want love from Stolas — as stated by Moxxie when he said that he craved intimacy yet fears it — but he’s not allowing HIMSELF to even though Stolas had given him all the signals of “I want you to” but struggles with communication and understanding that some people might actually love him (friends & family)
I think he’s also scared he’s going to let Stolas down or hurt (a little late for that I know) him the same as Verosika etc and subconsciously doesn’t want want to do that, so, instead, he puts him at an arms length for “protection” on both their parts and lashes out so he can become “unlovable” because it’s the only way he knows from being in a dysfunctional family)
Especially for the FACT that Blitz knew he let Verosika down with their relationship and you can definitely, maybe, see it in his eyes during his trip when she comes up to him saying that he treated her like shit and what a horrible boyfriend he had been etc (no matter how much I loathe her I’m not gonna diss the logic of this)
Also at the beginning of his Blitz’s drug trip we can see that Verosika, Fizzarolli and Striker were were all in the dark spot, most likely representing toxicity and negativity
+ Moxxie (who was half between dark and light)
BUT Stolas was in the light… which most likely represented a healthy relationship and positivity
If he was REALLY that bad (as bad as Valentino) WHY wasn’t Stolas in the darkness with everyone else?
(2) Angel Dust & Valentino VS Stolas & Blitz:
Stolitz’s relationship and “ambience” is NOTHING like Valentino and Angel’s for one Stolas is NOT a rapist and he does NOT force himself onto Blitz whenever he wants to. I don’t care what y’all say about 2x01 that was completely CONSENSUAL but Stolas’s shyness was apparently mistaken for “I don’t want to do this”, so, of course, it came off as being SA’d
* If that was the case I’m pretty 💯 sure that if Stolitz, respectively, had sexually assaulted one another, both would be dead (well if Blitz has Angel-tipped bullets that is 😂)
The ONLY thing that is similar each other is the fact that a trippy version of Stolas — not the REAL one who’s way too affectionate to do that sort of thing; unless he had been put in a dominant (🥵) role — had pulled Blitz towards him, the same way Valentino had done to Angel Dust
👏🏻 THAT 👏🏻 IS 👏🏻 IT!
Interpretation:
Reality:
Not to mention there were two different facial expressions on their faces:
Hallucinogenic Stolas’s was sympathetic (if not a little mocking — and, so out of character, if it was the real one — when asking “are you afraid to love people, Blitzy?” but that was only because it was from Blitz’s interpretation of how he views him currently, thinking he viewed him nothing more than a “plaything” so, of course, he thought it was condescending), patient, and loving (three of them POSITIVE and one of them was negative, which wasn’t even all that bad because it was internal on the sufferer’s part
Which makes sense why Blitz accused Stolas — the real one — of treating him like it was anything more wanting to FUCK him (even though that was the kinda the deal)
Now, I understand that — as Loona said — “we all have our own issues”. Well, Blitz has them all the time because he was grown up with dysfunction from the get go and was probably told (and most likely shown) that he was unlovable as a child by his dad and that he’d always be a “fuck-up” and would damage other heathy relationships whether it’s friends, family, or even poetlovers.
Whilst Valentino’s intentions was to be sick, cruel, and that he didn’t CARE if he had hurt Angel verbally, sexually or physically
Stockholm syndrome? Yeah, right. Prostitution is more like it, which isn’t AS bad (in fact that’s the probably the LEAST thing you can do in Hell at least they — Stolitz — can and will be together. But not if it’s Stockholm. Period.
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Head-canon:
Darkness can represent:
Negativity. Toxicity and captivity (along with destruction)
Which makes sense since Blitz is known for burning bridges and he is seen “captive” (psychologically) by Stolas; because he thinks all he wants from him is just sex (even though that was originally the plan to begin with before Blitz probably started getting feelings lol)
Blitz is darkest parts (the less coloured) are most likely negative and toxic in these relationships:
Fizzarolli >>> fell out and is his arch rival
Verosika >>> broke up and probably does feels shit for the way he had treated her
• I theorise that as soon as he had broken up with her was when he had adopted Loona thereafter
* Or how do we know she didn’t do anything just as bad? (We don’t because yes let’s all blame Blitz for everything since he’s the antagonistic character)
Striker >>> Not much to be said except for let him get away after he attempted to assassinate Stolas - so Blitz feels guilty about it maybe?
Light represents:
Understanding & intellectual thought (well duh Blitz in his psychological torment; so that’s a no-brainer! Pun intended 😆)
But it can also mean goodness and reality
Stolas:
He wasn’t in the dark with everyone else as mentioned, he was into the light… representing that he could be the reason for Blitz to get out of that self-hatred (via Stolas’s kindness and affection)
Almost like reaching out for help
Or signifying a healthier relationship (hence the eradication of self-hatred) and that would probably help Blitz to stop erasing himself from photos with friends and family
* It even said Blitz wanted self respect for himself and his peers for one of his goals in his bio
Moxxie:
Who started off in the dark (in representation of Blitz’s current relationship with his employee) BUT I noticed how he went from dark to light
* I know he was following Blitz up the stairs to a hallucinogenic Stolas but still this could a huge character development
So this could be foreshadowing a significant change… as to how, why, and when we don’t know (only Viv knows lol 😂)
Verosika:
Okay, I won’t deny (as biased as I am for Stolitz I still think about the FACTS) that, yes, Blitz may have subconsciously felt guilty about hurting his ex-girlfriend because this all was in his MIND not what shows on the exterior, but that doesn’t mean he would want to go BACK to her, I’m looking at you “Blitzika” shippers 😂 — despite all the hard work he will have to make for being in a healthy relationship with Stolas — because Viv and Bryce Pinkham have already revealed that Stolitz will get together REGARDLESS of what happens; that’s the whole storyline of Helluva Boss
Off topic:
That’s like saying “there’s NO WAY Deckerstar would get together, because he’s “irredeemable” (who pretty much was the same as Blitz) but they DID end up together they even had a kid!
Verosika is Eve (Lucifer’s ex-girlfriend) in Lucifer and Stolitz are Deckerstar their fates are “align with the stars” — pun intended — meaning Stolas and Blitz are endgame
(Not gonna do Striker and why because Blitz met him for a day and had a one liner to say - also I decided to put the clip here to support my theories because I couldn’t be bothered putting up gifs lol 😂)
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Theory addendum: why Stolitz will not in fact be Stockholm syndrome.
Hi, guys,
So I made a theory response yesterday (you can check it out here: https://www.tumblr.com/thenotificationmachine/708793464871092225/theory-response-why-stolitz-might-actually-be?source=share) to @stolitzy's defence of Stolitz not being Stockholm syndrome and... I think my response was TOO effective. Not only did I defend my view, I also shattered her faith in Stolitz to the point that she had a personal crisis. So yeah, NOT a good move in hindsight.
After some reflection and a talk with her, I've decided to amend my theory and say that Stolitz won't be Stockholm syndrome.
"But how?" I hear you ask, " as you pointed out, all the signs are there! And stolitzy had no defence for that!" You (and my theory) are right about Stolitz having all (or at least most of) the hallmarks of Stockholm syndrome, but as stolitzy pointed out in her initial post, there actually is a good argument for why it isn't Stockholm syndrome.
Don't misunderstand me, all the signs are there and if normal logic was applied it probably WOULD develop into that, but it isn't that because Viv, the Spindlehorse team and the vast majority of Helluva's fanbase will NEVER ALLOW IT to be that. They all want Stolitz to be this 100% perfect ship with no blemishes given time, and so the current miscommunication is likely the most trouble the ship will ever be in given how quickly the writers jumped from the emotional turmoil in "the Circus" to the overly saccharine stuff in "Seeing Stars".
Call it bad storywriting or an act of mercy for the ship depending on your preferences, but whatever the case may be, Stolitz might end up going down as the Stockholm syndrome ship that never was.
...Or not, since I have to confess that I've overanalysed the hallucination scene from "Truth Seekers" before, more specifically the appearances of the antagonists...
Take Mr. Shitty Clown over here, for example. Given how he's styled like an old rubber hose cartoon and Blitz's reactions to him and Robo-Mr. Shitty Clown, I theorised that he's like this because Blitz just sees him as a bouncy irritant/pest who lives to entertain others, when in fact he's seemingly like this just because Viv and co. liked the idea of that style.
As such, my analysis of Striker's grainy/greyscaled appearance being due to Blitz's perception of him being darkened by his assassination attempt on Stolas was also wrong.
But the BIGGEST (and most painful to admit) mistake was my analysis of Verosika's appearance in the scene.
You see, I looked at how she had the most "realistic" appearance (in terms of the show's usual animation style), visible tear streaks, the fact that she got the closest to Blitz out of all of them and the fact that Blitz's eyes are filled with a blue line that looks suspiciously like they're filling up with tears and came to the logical conclusion that Verosika was the closest to Blitz romantically and that in this moment he understood how much he hurt her and was genuinely remorseful. When all this analysis was added to hallucination Stolas holding him on a chain and him blushing on it and I immediately jumped to the Stockholm syndrome conclusion.
This all seems like a perfectly logical conclusion, simply thwarted by the fact that Viv and co. hadn't looked at the scene as deeply as my theorising self, until you take one more very important factor into account; my MASSIVE bias towards Verosika.
Yeeeaaahhh... So I have to admit that both this analysis and the entire "Stolitz is Stockholm syndrome" theory was likely unconsciously influenced by me being a Verosika stan and thus believing that her genuine loving relationship with Blitz (which the latter, not her, sabotaged) deserves a second shot once he goes through some character growth and that Stolitz is unfair robbery. As such I was always going to be biased against the ship and also missed the obvious sunlight behind hallucination Stolas, which stolitzy pointed out symbolises how Blitz views him as his hope. Then again, this could ALSO be proof of the Stockholm syndrome theory being correct regardless of my bias; guess it's up to you to decide.
But regardless of whether my overanalysis, Verosika bias and preference for Blitzika over Stolitz disprove the Stockholm syndrome theory or not, the latter ship will still never be Stockholm syndrome since, like with the Orks in Warhammer 40k being able to breathe in space until they're told they need spacesuits to do so, the collective Stolitz fanbase (including the Spindlehorse team and Viv herself)'s collective power of belief will make sure it never turns into such a thing and instead miraculously develops into a stable, healthy relationship.
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