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ineffable-opinions · 4 months

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Danmei tropes in My Stand-In

This is a quick introduction to some popular BL tropes that are fairly new to live-action BL:

wife chasing crematorium

substitute lover

transmigration

(Contains spoilers)

All corrections and critiques are welcome.

As you probably know My Stand-In is based on the danmei novel Professional Body Double. Specifically, it belongs to 188男团 (“188 group” where 188 cm is the height of every gong (seme) in the novel series). It is a shared universe of novels with characters from one featuring in another and almost all gong are very scummy (or “red-flag” so to speak) initially.

Trope #1: wife chasing crematorium

What 188 group novels all have in common is the trope popularly known among English-speaking fandom as “wife chasing crematorium”. This is a super-popular trope, not only in danmei.

origin 追妻火葬场 (zhuī qī huǒzàng chǎng; chasing his wife’s crematorium) derived from the longer phrase 傲娇一时爽，追妻火葬场 (àojiāo yīshí shuǎng, zhuī qī huǒzàng chǎng; Tsundere was on his high horse for a while, now chasing his wife’s crematorium.) Alternative form: 追夫火葬场 (zhuī fū huǒzàng chǎng; chasing husband’s crematorium) – usually involves scum shou (uke) chasing after his gong (seme) after initially abusing gong’s love.

The trope involves the love interest being initially cold or even cruel to the protagonist who is in love. This continues until all of that love gone. By then, the love interest would have come to his senses, eager to seek forgiveness and chase after the protagonist. In some cases, the love is already lost irrevocably, especially when the protagonist is dead – hence, literal crematorium. There are also works where the love interest is discarded all together and protagonist moves on to someone else. Rarely, there are works where the protagonist is the scum.

In 188 group novels, this is how the basic structure of wife chasing crematorium:

Shou loves gong. Gong treats shou terribly.

Gong goes too far. Shou is fed-up and leaves gong, one way or other. Gong realises that he has been in love all along.

Gong regrets his action and chases after shou. Grovelling ensues.

Gong and shou gets back together. Gong dotes on shou and the couple face other challenges (family, villains) together, if any. Happy ending.

Fans are in it for the melodrama. They want to watch scummy gong to go too far, the relationship to break down and for the gong to grovel and make amends through various selfless deeds, until they reestablish the relationship and trust (as much as possible). Every one of those stories end with a happy ending with the gong endlessly doting on shou and the relationship having turned wholesome.

Trope #2: substitute lover

Other than the previous trope Professional Body Double and its adaptation My Stand-In involves the “substitute lover” trope.

Substitute lover trope involves, usually the gong, having a 白月光 (white moonlight): a person whom he loves a lot but can’t reach/touch. This is usually his first love and has a profound impact on him.

Aside: White moonlight in itself is a common trope. Both Vip Only and Sahara Sensei to Toki-kun used white moonlight trope to in a typical kishōtenketsu narrative structure.

Since white moonlight is unattainable, gong finds a substitute lover.

The relationship between gong and substitute lover is usually just physical. This is because gong doesn’t plan to move on from white moonlight, instead stubbornly carries the torch. Gong doesn’t plan on betraying the pure feeling he have for his white moonlight by giving any of his love to anyone else. So, he tries to ensure that no love leaks out of the dam he has built to store his love for the white moonlight. This is, from gong’s POV, a kind of emotional fidelity which he extends to his white moonlight. A tribute of gong’s unshakable love for his white moonlight.

The substitute lover sometimes resembles white moonlight in some way –

in body – first ever live action BL (shonen-ai actually) adaptation Summer Vacation 1999 (1988) based of Hagio Moto’s The Heart of Thomas plays around with this trope, a lot. More recently, Playboyy sorta lampshaded it with the twins premise.

in spirit – a recent example is Love is Better the Second Time Around wherein prof. Takashi sleeps with his assistant Shiraishi Yuto because the assistant (or his desperation at least) reminded him of his white moonlight Miyata Akihiro.

Aside: There is only one live-action BL that actively subverted this trope: HIStory3: Make Our Days Count. The series introduced a doppelgänger of Yu XiGu (Xiang HaoTing’s white moonlight), a perfect candidate for substitute lover trope. But instead of pursuing it, they subverted the trope.

There are usually two outcomes to the substitute lover trope:

gong falls for substitute lover. In some cases, this involves white moonlight turning into rival or villain.

gong and his white moonlight get together. In this case, substitute lover turn into rival or get a lover of his own.

Itsuka no Kimi e, first ever live-action adaptation of a yaoi manga, employed substitute lover trope in one of its best executions. It is so brilliantly done that I can’t think of anything topping that, unless 4th volume (particularly the case-solving plot involving the photography club) of Takumi-kun series gets live action adaptation.

Trope #3: transmigration

Basic premise of Professional Body Double and its adaptation My Stand-In revolves around transmigration of soul.

This too is a popular trope in BL. One of the most popular danmei Mo Dao Zu Shi and its adaptation The Untamed involves this trope.

Maybe I should say set-up instead of trope for this one. Transmigration involves soul of a character getting transferred to a body different from his own at the time of triggering event.

Own body, different time – either past or future. When past is involved, it is likely a do-over story where the protagonist gets to redo their life, change their love interest, make different life choices, take different course of action, etc.

Reincarnation – completely different lifetime but with retained memories of past-life/lives. Until We Meet Again; Choco Milk Shake (different lifetime for the pets)

Different body, present (near-present) time – character’s soul enters a different person’s body. The character gets involved in his previous circumstances but now in a different capacity. Revive (2016), that danmei adaptation no one ever talks about, went to town with this set-up.

Different body, different life – soul enters character in a book, game, simulation, etc. and would be primarily tasked to thrive there. One Room Angel (2023) explored a type of badro with this set-up.

With transmigration set-up, it is common to have one of these two:

Transmigrator retaining some connection to previous life.

Transmigrator’s previous life doesn’t matter anymore.

These Tropes in My Stand-In

These tropes are explored to varying degrees and with different levels of efficiency in Professional Body Double. In its live-action adaptation, there are a bunch of limitations. Primary one being the cultural difference – audience of a danmei novel are already familiar with these tropes to some extend but the live-action audience is one which has been primarily consuming sweet BL from Thailand that are inherently deficient in BL literacies.

Another is the khujin problem. Branded pairs are very important to Thai BL industry, so they cannot have two different actors playing before and after transmigration. (Actually, this was not impossible but there hasn’t been any precedent. Also, The Untamed enjoyed success by having Xiao Zhan play pre- and post-transmigration Wei WuXian. I wish they tried two khujin (UpPoom & UpWinner) one couple, since they chose to introduce Winner as pre-transmigration Joe. I don’t know, maybe that’s asking for fan wars and pitting actors against each other.) [In the tags, @deliriousblue reflects on what having two different actors could do with example from Cupid's Last Wish (a series I haven't watched) and its impact on audience on an emotional level. @myezblog has commented that Alchemy of Souls (another I haven't watched) is an excellent example of transmigration played two different actors.]

Third limitation is one that comes from medium – you can’t have long monologues in live-action. This deprives audience of the inner workings of character’s minds. Most of the motives, especially Ming’s trouble with warring desires of his heart, is inaccessible to the audience. @clairedaring have posted a deep-dive by Liltsu into some of that here.

Aside: Another interesting trope is giving watch (a taboo gift) – Chinese superstition rising from 送钟 (gifting watch) and 送终 (to bury the dead/attend funeral) being homophones. Taboo gift trope - white lilies associated with death and funerals - have appeared in Summer Vacation 1999 (1988) and Forbidden Love; both of these have substitute lover and death.

Ming’s characterization as a young master, coming from money and prestige that breeds arrogance and deficient in empathy (this post by @tungtung-thanawat is particularly enlightening) is a highlight of his cruelty as a 188 group gong.

While redemption of scum gong is what 188 group offers its audience, it is not necessarily what live-action audience would be wanting from the set-up. It is likely that a part of the audience was in fact looking for revenge plot.

As @lurkingshan highlighted in this post there is no exploration of identity (tied to Joe’s body pre- and post-transmigration) forth-coming precisely because this isn’t that kind of story and body is only treated as a temporary shelter for the soul for most part when transmigration trope is involved. Moreover, the novel is steeped in Confucian values. So, most of the resolution to what it means for Joe to have a mother now is dealt through his selfless gratitude and the filial piety he offers her.

The same is the case with his old body – a proper funeral for that body is what he owes his own parents for having given flesh and blood to the body which housed his soul previously. Remarkably, his own house figures prominently as an inheritance and as an enduring connection to his own parents – a bond more precious to that him than the bond he had to his old body. I am unsure how much of those core Confucian values they will retain in the live-action adaptation, given the cultural difference.

As @befuddledcinnamonroll discusses here, it is tied to cultural ideas of self, religious beliefs, etc.

@bengiyo has pointed out a weakness in execution of the transmigration trope over the substitute lover trope: the latter is a recurring and inverted trope in this series while the former plays out straight. Even though it is clear that coma!Joe is basically friendless and his career already dead (or that he has no career to speak of), it might have been better to hint at a lack of resolution and impending doom, and build anticipation by leaving clues about the troubles that coma!Joe has left behind. That way when the substitute lover trope peaks again, audience would feel as trapped as Joe.

This is where I think Revive (2016) did a better job with friends, colleagues, past-lovers and rivals especially with such similar set-ups: entertainment industry, classism, scum gong, and intersecting lives pre- and post-transmigration.

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happypotato48 · 6 months

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This Is A Gay Asian Rant About BL Comments Made By Some Queer Westerners I See Sometimes.

So you know of those gays (usually white) that made dumb tiktok dancing to list of countries that legalized same sex marriage and list of countries that discriminate against LGBTQIA+ poeple as a way to say something racist. yeah i kinda got the same vibes from some comments regard how asian BL is homophobic just cause they don't live up to queer western standard. look, i'm not saying that some BLs and their creators don't deserve criticism regard how they capitalized/exploited queerness for an easy cash grab.

But people need to understand that Asian countries despite recent progress are still very much culturally conservatives. so when people says that thai bl is homophobic and all the characters looks like bunch of straight guys, which is true for some olders thai BLs i'm not gonna denied that. but after all this time and newer BLs generally being very queer and most of creators being out queer themself and poeple still making these comments, i'm annoyed.

And don't get me start on the actors. you don't know them! why are you making assumption and calling them queerbaiter just cause they acts in bl. like maybe they're straight, maybe they're not but what they're definitely doing is making queer content for you know, queer people here. so when you made halfass comments about their sexuality what do you think that made other queer people who still in the closet feels. and when you add the nationality to that, "these thai bl pair are this and that, this korean actor is so ungrateful for his bl past", etc. when our societies are still very much still in progress regard LGBTQIA+ acceptance. it make us living here feels fucking awful like somehow we're lesser queer than people in the west just cause we don't have citibank at pride or some shit.

And the shittiest in my humbled opinion are comments regard censored chinese bls. people do know like, that the creators making these bls are risking their livelihoods for this. that these shows getting make at all are miracles. yes it sucked that they're censored but they're still very much queer shows making by queer people who want to express thier queerness despite the chinese government being the chinese government. when people dimissing these shows as not belonging in queer media, you're also dimissing their creators and audiences as not belonging in the community.

Look what i want to say is that we're trying our best over here, and maybe our best are not up to your liking. the ways we talk and express our queerness maybe still can be perceived as problematic by western queer standard. but these media are our house and you're the guests. for people aren't shitty we appreciated that you're here engaging and loving our media, this is your home too and you're welcome in it. i can speak for myself that i very much love being here on tumblr and interacting with people from all over the world who love BL. but for people who are being shitty sometimes about asian bl.

YOU'RE THE GUESTS, BEHAVE!

#bl drama #thai bl #asian lgbtq dramas #personal rant #japanese bl #taiwanese bl #korean bl #asian ql #asian bl series #asian bl dramas #ql dramas #bl fandom #ql meta #queer media #just fandom things #fandom #chinese bl #dumb boy rambles

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doublel27 · 4 months

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We Are: Queer Found Family and Romance

Or the meta I didn’t intend to write.

It’s taken 9 eps (of me admittedly watching We Are through gifs and clips on Twitter, because I have yet to pay for iQIYI and I am bad at grey watching) but I think I have figured out the central conflict/plot of We Are and why the mostly linear narrative of Phum and Peem with the in media res relationships of our other three pairings made this impossible to fully tease out until we got all the pieces.

The through line that connects all of these stories about how incredibly hard it can be to be part of a queer friend group when the lines of friendship and romance blur, especially when there’s a real aspect of found family to that group.

Two things really cemented it for me this week: Tan telling the gang (and therefore the audience) the full scope of his background with Fang, as well as the beginning of Phuwin’s IG live where he talks about why he likes Kluen as a character is that he’s very direct with people he likes and isn’t blurring the lines between friends and possibly fucking up the friendship.

Because that’s the central problem that all four main couples of the show grapple with in different ways. I’m gonna get into all of that under the cut.

I’m going to start with Tan and Fang because aou contains multitudes and is my beloved while going for Fang could have always messed up his relationship with Phum, we find out in episode 9 that Tan met Fang first. Unsurprisingly, it’s not a great first meeting between what are seemingly two known fighters of what appear to be rival high schools. But then Tan finds Phum and Fang being jumped by a group from his own high school and saves them and eventually becomes friends with them sometime two years+ before the start of our story. Within this time, Tan falls so far in love with Fang, who can both out bitch and out fight, him that Tan goes full simp instead and cuts out the fighting(love that for him).

And mixing his reveal to his friends of how he met Fang and how Fang eventually consumed his waking thoughts to the point he would wish to order Fang as a pizza topping (my love for Tan is immeasurable).

But take us back to episode 2 (which is now on YouTube for US watchers for how long I don’t know) and Tan has clearly not seen Fang in awhile. He asks Phum to invite Fang out where Tan will happen to be. At the time, it was taken as Tan and Phum are university friends and Tan and been obsessed with Fang ever since and needs Phum to make the connections. But the clues that Tan and Fang were also close were already laid down. Their exchange goes:

Tan: Hey. It’s been awhile. Right?

Fang: I thought you were dead.

Tan: Come on. I haven’t seen you in ages either. (That’s the English translation, but the flow of the conversation connotes that Fang hasn’t sought him out either)

At which point Phum makes the face he always makes when Tan is in Fang hyperfocus mode of looking away and sighing. And Fang pointedly asks why Phum invited him out and what is going on.

Which is a weird exchange when you think Tan is Phum’s friend who is obsessed with Fang. It is a less weird exchange between friends that have been avoiding each other for an unspecified amount of time. And we can assume Tan started avoiding Fang because he was madly in love with him and didn’t know how to handle it and didn’t tell Fang why he was avoiding him.

In the episode 9 speech to his friends, Tan outlines that he didn’t think Fang would ever reciprocate his feelings (that it was impossible) and didn’t want to fuck with the friendship (at which point Pun sends a longing look to Chain but we’ll get back to that later) with Fang and Phum and he buried it. Until he couldn’t live with it any longer and decided to do something about it.

Which with the limited information we have, his feelings were already fucking with his friendship. He already didn’t know how to approach Fang because of his feelings at the start of the show, so is it better to not try and hope the romantic feeling dies while avoiding your friend or shoot your shot and maybe get a boyfriend out of it or maybe continue to fuck up your friendship. Tan chooses to roll the dice and it’s clear from the moment they leave the bar in episode two that Fang likes him back.

They both watch each other when they think the other isn’t looking. Fang is the one who sends Phum and Peem home together and sets himself up with a taxi ride with Tan. It’s particularly interesting to me after episode 9, this exchange, because Fang looks at a passed out Peem, mouths Peem? And proceeds to ask Phum if this is the guy that hit him while Tan snickers and Peem looks like the saddest wet cat. It’s only after the affirmative from Phum that Fang is essentially like “well, you can take him home Phum. Take home your drunk friend who hit you and I will go home with Tan.” Which our besotted Tan jumps at.

And considering the parallel between Tan and Fang meeting and Tan immediately sassing him and Fang throwing a punch leading to a fight, and Phum ruining Peem’s painting which led to mutual sassing and a kick to the nuts and a fight…I don’t know if Fang is a mastermind and connected the dots because these brothers need someone who will occasionally not be afraid talk back if need be and sees the potential for Phum to care as much about Peem as Fang does for Tan. Or if he just wants time alone with Tan and doesn’t see it. Look, I wouldn’t be surprised if Fang is secretly a long game mastermind.

Once they’re alone, Tan and Fang steal glances and flirt in the way that Tan makes very loud attempts at flirting and

Additionally, Fang is reserved like Phum, and seemingly as isolated as his only friends seem to be Phum’s friends. We don’t know if he is just not paying attention to other members of the architecture faculty or knows stuff about Kluen he won’t share. As previous parts of this narrative are folded in later episodes, we may find out. What we do know is he’s either ever only appeared alone or in connection to Tan and Phum and Phum’s friends. Even with the flashbacks, Tan points out that the head of the Fang, head of cheer club, approaches him alone and later it’s just Fang and Phum when Tan finds the group of guys jumping them. We know he and Phum adopt Toey who is bullied in high school. It makes sense why he’s potentially reserved about pushing things with Tan if Tan becomes his first real high school+ friend that he has outside of his brother.

Which is why by the time we get to episode 5, Fang says yes before Tan finishes talking. He’s been waiting but also wasn’t willing to be the first to put himself out there. And considering how much Fang and Phum seem to live in their heads and not in the world with everyone else, I can see why he needed Tan to be the one to commit to it first, especially with Fang’s later comments about not understanding why hanging out with him is a preference of Tan’s. I do hope we cross his “don’t tell tan how gone I am on him” bridge later in the narrative. Cause I think Tan knows, but also it’s nice to hear.

Let’s go back to another long-suffering pair where only one half really knew why they were suffering, and the other got a nasty shock, QToey.

I know the guys are all team if Toey loves Q and Q loves Toey then why is Q so hesitant? And I get it, but let’s talk about the double shock Q suffered and the potential layers of risk Q is facing.

It’s not just that Q is cautious with his heart. That is a factual truth. It’s why he ghosted Milk Frappe Boy, because while he fell in love with Milk Frappe Boy I think there was a deep worry, and a self esteem issue that the reality of Q, instead of Pencil Senior, would not be enough for Milk Frappe boy. So Q bolted and then deeply regretted said bolting enough say so to both Toey, not knowing the truth, and to Peem.

But the fact that he learned that Toey was indeed Milk Frappe boy at the same time he learned all of his best friends, his family for all intents and purposes, also knew and no one told him. And the way the confrontation is staged between Q and Toey, it is Q against Toey and everyone else is behind Toey.

And that, friends, that’s the real third rail for Q.

It’s one thing to know that he loved Milk Frappe Boy and that he loves Toey. And that is scary enough. The fandom loves to joke about how Toey is everyone’s little brother and they’ve all adopted him: and that is a correct assessment. But that means if Q fucks it up with Toey, he stands a chance in his mind of everyone else choosing Toey over him.

That fear doesn’t even feel that unfounded when everyone calmed Toey down mostly before Peem, Q’s true bestest friend, came out to be with him. Like Peem caught Toey before going after Q. The next episode nearly every character but Q (aside from Fai who is at all connected to this group) shows up to plan how to support Toey in getting Q.

And while I know my brain cell-less brain trust fully believe they’re helping Q, no one actually seems to ask what Q wants. Aside from Peem trying to get him to come to some that first night on the curb, no one ever asks. And that night all Q wants is to sleep in a pile with his four best friends, because that’s his family. Losing them is even scarier than losing Toey. In essence he’s lost Milk Frappe Boy once. He could do it again. But if they chose Toey…IDK.

We don’t know anything about their families really, aside from Peem’s lovely aunt and the fact that Phum doesn’t get along with his dad. And I get why when the focus is really on these large groups of found families (that are becoming one large found family) that the audience is really in love with. The bonds between the friends are just as much a part of the romance as the actual romances. Because the friendship is where the complications come from.

And while I can’t speak to mlm spaces, as I have never identified as a man, within queer wlw and non-binary spaces there are jokes about dating yourself out of friend groups. There are people you used to know who you don’t anymore because you dated someone in the friend group and were too new and got bounced. Or you date and the way it ends make everyone choose one side. Or, a person in the friend group has a crush on another person in said group, that is an open secret but when the person who was crushed upon gets a new relationship people get mad at them for not dating the person in the friend group who liked them all along because didn’t everyone know. (None of these are from personal experience I assure you 🙃)

And it doesn’t always happen like that. Sometimes the people figure out a friendship or a queer platonic solution when they’re not attracted to each other anymore. Sometimes they orbit around the friend group like two comets on opposite trajectories, occasionally crossing in awkward moments. Sometimes everyone gets past the weird. Sometimes no one does.

But that’s the risk that we’re playing in this show. I can choose the romance, but if it doesn’t work out, I am gambling this safe zone.

Which is gonna bring me to our last two pieces of this: one has had the most development and one the least but both are struggling.

I’m gonna start with Chain and Pun who are the most unhinged, gay yearning codependent besties that exist in the middle of the week and give Potae and Payos on Only Boo a real run for their money. (Both have lips touching earlobes and I don’t have a platonic answer for either) The thing is, I think both Chain and Pun are very aware of the mutual feelings. They both have moments where you know they’re aware but neither will do anything about it. And they are in the case of the story, the most embedded in one single friend group, and have the potential to explode their core group of five if things go sideways.

Now, they’re also the pair that has been effectively dating this entire time without actually dating. The ear biting and the blowing on things in the other’s mouth and the…I don’t have platonic explanations for their behavior okay? I don’t. Not naming it keeps it from being real though. It’s a collective hallucination or the biggest game of chicken.

Eventually, though, one of them is going to cross the line in a way that can’t be erased or the line redrawn. And it’s gonna have to be big because their friends watched them gaze longingly into each other's eyes for 20+ seconds and thought it was normal. Because this is how they are.

And that brings us to not quite friends not quite lovers and not quite enemies, Phum and Peem. The risk is, as discussed in many other metas, mostly on Phum’s side here and it’s why he spent the episode so hesitant. Yes he started off particularly entitled and rude. His and Peem’s relationship started as a fight (but so did Tan and Fang) and Phum feels incredibly comfortable with Peem. He’s definitely neurodivergent coded my Phum, which doesn’t make his assholery okay, but it explains his hesitancy to try new things and his struggle with making friends and expressing his feelings.

He’s got friends but he doesn’t feel particularly deeply connected to them. Yes, Beer makes time for him and actively seeks him out to give advice. He and Fang have a level of sibling codependency that hints at neglect and Fang protecting Phum at all costs. We see Tan approach Phum most of the time and while some of that is angling to get to Fang, Tan does genuinely care. But Tan is also incredibly loud which seems to be a lot for our neurospicy Phum, and Tan also has his large found family with Peem. Same with Toey, who Phum and Fang adopted long ago, and clearly Phum adores him, but he’s also the little brother of the art faculty.

And Peem is a very loving and giving soul and he makes time and space for Phum even though he’s annoying and high handed and gets Phum out of his ruts and comfort zones. And Phum clearly wants Peem to choose him, because Phum has already chosen even if he hasn’t said “I like you and want to date you.” He’s said other very direct things about how safe he feels with Peem and how connected he feels to other people by hanging out with Peem. And Peem is this safe space for him to go out and connect with the world without it being overwhelming and he even feels more connected to his own friends.

And that’s the danger that Kluen represents and what Phum struggles with. He wants Peem to choose him, but he also doesn’t want to force Peem to make a choice and not choose him, and then lose out on the experiences he’s building with Peem as well as a break in some of the connections he has with the people closest to him as Fang and Toey find love within Peem’s group. And so again, the question comes around, is it better to stay in this limbo where no one says anything and maybe Peem dates Kluen but I get to keep him as a friend, or do I roll the dice like Tan and maybe win.

I think it’s been a hard thread to pull because without the context of Tan & Fang meeting first, and Phum and Peem mending their relationship to become something akin to friends who kiss sometimes and don’t talk about it, and the lingering feelings of betrayal for Q by his friends (where they learned about his largest secret/mystery and NO ONE TOLD HIM) which are later revelations in the course of the show, they feel like different types of love stories without the mess of friendship blurring the lines. The story feels linear, because we start in a school year with the meeting of Phum and Peem, the connections between the other characters are older than this year, leaving some of their stories in media res.

And it’s an interesting core struggle taking a risk when the line between who you’re friends with, who you depend on, and who you’re attracted to blurs and the potential for rifts in your safety net are everywhere. It’s not the first show with this as a central tangle nor is it specific to queer television. But the reality of the deep ties that can exist within queer friendships and how they form deep supportive communities makes the stakes higher. And that’s why the friendships are developed nearly as much if not more than some of the romances. That’s where a lot of the risk lies for these characters.

Anyway, that’s nearly 3K of thoughts I didn’t know I had in me about We Are until today. But here we are.

#we are the series #we are series #we are #phumpeem #qtoey #tanfang #chainpun #thai bl #thai ql #gmmtv #gmmtv 2024 #we are meta #we are the series meta #queer media meta #doublel27 talks #doublel27 meta #I know I rambled here #sorry if it’s not coherent

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heretherebedork · 2 years

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I really love how Between Us managed to use 'consent is sexy', 'actors deserve personal lives', 'homophobia is shitty', 'don't catfish people' (or, don't lie to protect people when the truth coming out will hurt more) and 'let yourself be yourself to be loved' be their central themes for all their couples and somehow made it amazing.

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evaristelonely · 11 months

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As a person who didn't like the ending of Only Friends, I'm frankly astonished by people calling it 'not authentically queer'. Like guys, the story is literally based on how Ninew's relationships with his ex played out in college; I don't know how much more authentic you can get.

Is it satisfying at the end? I would say no, it isn't. I guess that's how life is, our actual lives don't always communicate any sort of grand message. Sometimes life is just the way it is, people are horrible and you don't know why exactly because you can't actually get in their heads.

The only thing that stands apart forn everything else are Sand and Ray's relationships. They both are completely fictional, so their story ends up being the one that is wrapped nicely, the one full of the most joy and hope.

#only friends #only friends the series #gmmtv #ofts #only friends meta #thai ql

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visualtaehyun · 1 year

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ทำไมถึงเต็มคิดอะไรลึกซึ้งไม่เป็น = Why are you utterly unable to think profoundly?

me @ myself, trying to order my thoughts about this episode

Disclaimer: I'm still learning Thai so feel free to correct me on anything 🙏

I'll probably make a separate post about the poem since that's pretty far outside of my current Thai abilities lol but I found it was so central to the episode that I wanna take a closer look at it anyway! The book is called ขอบฟ้าขลิบทอง (khawp faa klip tawng) 'gold-trimmed horizon' and this specific poem seems to be named after its first line มิ่งมิตร (ming mit) 'cherished friend(s)'. The author's name is อุชเชนี ประคิณ ชุมสาย ณ อยุธยา (romanizations as shown in the end credits of the episode even though it's not helpful in finding info on her anyway lol). To me, this poem carries the same tone as the entire show, as I think the script/writing emphasizes kindness, empathy, and hope for the future. And มิ่งมิตร (ming mit) also speaks about equality/liberty:

...which brings me all the way to the end of the episode, actually:

This was what stuck with me the most. It's not just that Kawi has no living relatives left, it's that his longterm partner is not legally considered family and thus has no rights concerning Kawi. The implications of not having marriage equality already hit me hard when it came up in Moonlight Chicken but it's truly sad now after the disappointment of the 2023 general elections in Thailand (very briefly: progressive democratic Move Forward party winning the most seats but continuously being blocked from forming a government, their leader Pita Limjaroenrat losing the bid for Prime Minister and even being suspended from being a member of parliament).

I'm not sure what Pisaeng is supposed to have learned or needs to do differently, from what we've been shown. That Pisaeng and Kawi need to join Max in fighting for their rights? That Kawi, like his dad, should see a doctor sooner rather than later? That Kawi can't be giving up everything to be with Pisaeng, considering we never saw him leave the condo for work, friends, hobbies, anything?

We've also got Schrödinger's ace!Kawi, considering Kawi's feelings in that regard didn't get resolved this week plus there being no indication either which way if their relationship in this future had a sexual component or not. Actually, that reminds me- @rocketturtle4 basically predicted this episode in broad strokes last week! I basically spent the entirety of parts 2-4 in a state of slight confusion, waiting for the other shoe to drop or for the clearly-left-out conversation about intimacy we all expected last episode to be shown. Something felt, intentionally, off.

A few last notes:

What were Phong and Daow (aka Pear's dad and Pisaeng's mom) referring to with "messy issue"? The word used was วุ่นวาย (woon waai) which could mean anything from chaotic, to troublesome, to confusing, ... you see my confusion? I'm not sure if we're supposed to take this as the parents knowing about the whole love triangle weirdness or if I simply forgot about an earlier tidbit from Pear and Pisaeng's past as childhood friends. This was a lovely scene btw, the meaning of parenthood and child-parent relationships are portrayed so nicely in this show.

If you've read my post from last week about Pisaeng and Kawi switching to different pronouns and are curious about any changes this week- From the moment we hear the boys talk with each other on Pisaeng's bed after moving in together, they continuously use ผม (pom) / คุณ (khun). Meanwhile the after credit scene (that I'm not sure when to place in this time travel chaos) contained no pronouns at all! In the preview, I heard both of them use them again.

Maybe it's my love for Thai but I felt like "I'm glad you're happy." was a bit of a curt translation for what Pear said to her mom so here's me trying to preserve the sentiment: "แต่ถึงยังไง หนูก็ดีใจนะค่ะ ที่แม่มีความสุข" = But still, I'm happy. Because you're happy./...that you've found happiness. She's my baby angel and I won't hear a single word of criticism about her!!

#be my favorite the series #be my favorite #thai bl #i'm super sleepy so i have a feeling my aimless ramble doesn't say much of anything but at least it's out of my system #gotta wait to read meta until i've had some sleep #local woman harps on about linguistics #ql musings #local woman harps on about bmf

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bengiyo · 2 years

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My School President Ep 11 Stray Thoughts

We're nearing the end and heading back to the beach.

Last week, we finally faced Hot Wave, but not before saddling Tinn with the responsibility of keeping a health scare away from Gun. Gun finally learned how much Tinn has done for him, and the two are finally looking at each other properly. I still tear up watching the video for Let Me Tell You when I think about the last thing Mrs. Gim might have seen was her son singing his heart out on stage.

I know I said last week that it didn't matter if they won at this point, but this shit hurted. I think about how much of a loser Gun feels like all the time, and he put so much hope into this competition.

Win and Gun haven't gotten into any universities.

Chinzhilla is not okay, and you can feel them tearing at the seams.

Oh, Gun, please talk to Tinn.

Wasn't exactly expecting Por to be the one trying to hold the band together, and it's so sad to see him crying alone.

I'm so relieved that Mrs. Gim is okay and seems like herself. She consistently asks the right things to Gun so he's receptive to more uplifting perspectives.

Oof, Fourth is so dehydrated in this hospital scene. Get some chapstick for my boy.

Tinn remains the best boy. He knows things aren't great for Chinzhilla and so arranges a performance before a friendly crowd, and he was trying to bring a gift for his boyfriend's mom.

I like the design of Tinn's family's home theater setup.

Baby Tinn photos!!

You know Tinn's parents have their shit together. They both have actual pajamas.

I get Photjanee. She can be worried about her son without being a villain. She worries that she wasn't a good mother. She worries that she can't help her son and that be won't forgive her. She cares that she was a good partner to her husband.

At least the show is doing some interesting character work with the band's loss. Win's breakdown is affective, and I like Sound just letting him get the feelings out.

Oh good. They're by the pool. Hopefully we get Gun back on his feet.

It's interesting seeing them okay in the past without Sound, because now it feels like he's missing.

I feel so much for Gun, because he's just a a guy, you know? We see him through Tinn's eyes a lot, but so many other things and people tell Gun that his best isn't enough.

Fourth is a good crier.

"I want to eat you." Listen, Mark Pakin, you have no idea how hard these folks ride on crumbs.

The greatest subversion of a trope ever is future winner of the 2023 NAMGOONG BEST BOY AWARD Tiwson not catching Por before he fell down those stairs.

That's right, Por. Get these boys back to the beach.

I just knew they were gonna cut off the question. I like Photjanee going to see Gun away from school. I like that she seems to be trying to understand Gun more now that she's aware of his importance to Tinn.

Look, y'all, I have never doubted Photjanee, and we're seeing it here. Whatever reservations she has, she's not inflicting them on Tinn. She didn't forbid the trip.

Gun's shirt says TOGETHER FOREVER in a heart shape.

Gosh I love Chinzhilla, but they do seem to always face unforseen troubles.

Did Phat just quote Sam from The Lord of the Rings??? I'm gonna McFuckinLoseIt.

I love playing You Got Ma Back as they make the trek together.

Things were getting tense. Oishii must save us. Everyone drink the BL Juice so we can make it up the mountain.

Gosh Chinzhilla is so dumb together sometimes. Tinn's reactions to them are golden.

A band is a little family, and only family can cut you this deep. And just like that, they also come back together. I just really want them to succeed together.

Of course Tinn went with Gun to get water for them while they rested.

I love these boys so much. Gun just didn't want to let his friends down.

I NEVER ONCE DOUBTED PHOTJANEE. This is how parents should work out their worries for their kids. We talked about this during 21 Days Theory, and here we are again. You talk with the other parent or caregiver, and you make sure that whatever your kid might face, you have their back.

Suddenly Tiwson. You just knew he was gonna show up. Ford Arun, you be careful with those eyes too!

"I want veggies." We know, Fourth.

Oh, Yak. You're such a weirdo, but you care. He remembers them as glowing. I love this show when they tried to sing their seniors home. Now they're singing themselves home. I need to lay down.

Oh my God. I said it felt like Sound was missing, and so they just put him in this song.

And now Tinn is here? Help

They let Tinn and Tiwson be part of the Chinzhilla tribute. I am HOLLERING through my TEARS.

Tinn for him a music box that plays the song he wrote for him. I can't take anymore! I surrender!

Noh Shinwoo would love Tinn.

I swear this show better not deny me like Mr. Unlucky or I will revolt.

FINISH YOUR DRINKS!!!

Okay, Tinn, you're getting smoother.

I believe in Photjanee. This cliffhanger and preview cannot stop me.

#my school president meta #my school president #thai bl #bl series #ql series #Ben watches

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fiercynn · 1 year

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so @manogirl, @inventedfangirling, and @sharingfandoms all tagged me in the thai ql favorites tag game (thanks friends!), and i wasn't sure if i had enough to say about shows other than bad buddy to do it, but i figure you can't ever talk about bbs too much amirite

favorite thai ql: yeah so it's bad buddy, surprise surprise. i watched it all in the course of like 36 hours in february 2022, not long after it had ended, and it has been thoroughly stuck in my soul ever since. i've watched it so many times and in so many pieces that i couldn't even guess at a number. i've posted...uh...200k words of bad buddy fic in the past year and half? the obsession is real. it's just such a perfect mix of antagonistic and silly and tense and sweet and heartbreaking and healing that i keep going back to it over over. i love its narrative arc, and i love its little details, and i love all the ways we get to keep reinterpreting it over and over in fanworks. and i love the people i've met in the fandom, which is really hard to separate from the show! i've made really close and awesome friends here, which seems extremely fitting tbh. so yeah anyway i like that show a lot

favorite pairing: seems obvious given my previous answer, but patpran, followed closely by inkpa! idk i just think they're both neat and extremely in love

most underrated actor: JENNIE PANHAN I NEED HER IN EVERYTHING OKAY

favorite character: parakul siridechawat. he's just so in love you guys, even when (he thinks) it's hopeless. i love a character who pines. my sexuality is pining actually and pran's might be too (jk i love pran for many many many reasons but this is the one i felt like talking about today)

favorite side character: i think it has to be a tie between mae from 3wbf and longtae from a tale of thousand stars...two very different characters! i love mae in all her complexity, her efforts to be good and kind and empathetic that are interrupted by the death of the one person who was good and kind and empathetic towards her, and her search for revenge once he's gone, and then her ultimate realization that she needs to stop the cycle of violence even if it takes one more act of violence herself. meanwhile i love longtae because he is sweet and funny and adorable and such a good friend to literally everyone in pha phun dao and also it's khao, how could i not?

favorite scene in a ql: so if i type the letter "y" in my browser, the first search result is the youtube link to bad buddy episode 5 part 4/4. does that answer your question

favorite line in a ql: i thought i was going to struggle with this one but it came to me instantly: uncle tong from bad buddy saying, "you might think one man can't change the world. but i want you to know that this world can't change someone like me either." have i mentioned i am both queer and work in climate activism for a living

most anticipated ql (& why): 23.5 degrees the series!!!! i was already one million percent there for milklove but the recent confirmation of viewjune is just like the icingest of icing on the cake. i'm so fucking stoked you guys

i'm sorry i'm not going to answer the question on guilty pleasure series because like @manogirl i do not believe in the concept, nor the ones on healthiest vs. toxic relationships because i simply do not feel like it <3

most underrated series: hmm, most of the thai ql series i've seen are too well-known/watched to count for this. like would we call gap the series underrated? probably not, right? maybe...triage? but i personally felt like triage got pretty uneven in the second half...idk this is the problem with having mostly stuck to gmmtv huh

i really have not kept good track of who has done this meme already so ummmm @citystoryscapes @mahuhumaling @melto @mousieta @incandescentflower @galauvant @dancing-out-in-space

#thai ql #bad buddy #bad buddy meta #3 will be free #a tale of thousand stars #23.5 degrees #bad buddy episode 5 part 4/4 #knowing meme knowing you

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pandasmagorica · 9 months

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Imperfect

One thing I love about Thai QL is that the actors don't have to look perfect. Yes, most of them are quite attractive, but they might have a scar on their face or a mole on their ear. Babe has a stye or something on the edge of one of his lower eyelids, and Billy has something in the middle of his upper eyelid.

They're stars, not androids.

#pandasmagorica #yaoi #thai ql #thai bl #thai ql meta #thai bl meta #actors #thai actors #the sign meta

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ineffable-opinions · 3 months

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MAME & BL Literacies (Part 4)

Other parts: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

Contents:

MAME’s queer characters and their lives

Fetishization of queer men and profiting off LGBT community

Why other queer genres like gei comi struggle to get live action adaptation?

(bonus) What Did You Eat Yesterday sexy times

BL and rape culture

Everyday ethnocentrism & BL

This is the last part of this essay series. In this part, I want to discuss the response this review of TharnType by @waitmyturtles generated. As always, corrections and criticisms are welcome.

Here are the points @solitaryandwandering raised:

1. fans will get SO rabid for MAME’s stuff yet resist tuning in for more queer-friendly Taiwanese BL or lower heat fare

I think that the BL MAME creates is "queer-friendly". Moreover, her BL focuses on the intersection of queerness with local forms of gender, patriarchy & heterosexism, class, race, skin color, age, employment, location & regionalism, abilities and disabilities, education, health conditions and access to medical care, urban-rural divide, migrant status, culture, etc.

MAME's BL have aspects of Thai queer culture and praxis that are otherwise overlooked. Here's an example.

Through Techno’s interaction with Tharn in episode 1 of TharnType, MAME highlights an important issue: invisibility of androphilic “man”. Techno comments that Tharn is the first masculine presenting androphilic male he has met, even though he has several queer friends.

This is in part due to skewed presence of androphilic male characters in mainstream media. In Thai soap operas and movies, androphilic men are 'presented as effeminate, overreactive, with a passionate but unrequited interest in men'.

Countering this perception is the hegemony of masculine aesthetics in urban Thailand’s queer culture. 'The English word “man” has been borrowed into Thai gay-speak to denote acting in a masculine way. Man describes a masculine presentation of either gay-identified or heterosexual males and contrasts with the Thai term phu-chai, which also translates as “man” but is used in the specific sense of denoting the gender role of a heterosexually identified male.

'Many Thai gays believe that effeminate gay men, or gay sao, will experience discrimination and prejudice because of their feminine characteristics and behaviours. Thai gays also think that performing gender-normative forms of manhood are useful in establishing sexual and romantic relations with other gays. These expectations are associated with the culture of images, known in Thai as phap-phot, by which many homosexual men feel compelled to act in accord with normative male gender roles.'

This is in contrast to Techno’s queer friends who blur the lines between the masculine and feminine domains. His use of the word kathoey is case in point.

Moreover, the need for social conformity for Thai gays in terms of their gender performance is an urban phenomenon. Ethnographic study by Wijngaarden traced the rapid adoption of more masculine gender performance by gay men who moved from rural setting to urban for the purpose of education and employment. Ambiguity in gender performance is more accepted in rural setting where there is gender-based understandings of homosexuality. Also, gay dating scene in urban areas seem to assign value to masculine presentation.

source

I don't really know what @solitaryandwandering mean by "queer-friendly" in the context of Taiwanese BL.

Support of fu-people (BL fans) for queer works in Taiwan is well-known. When the play 《愛情生活》 Life of Love by Xu ZhengPing was staged, they had BL version shows too.

The play has a short film adaptation which is available for free on GagaOOLala.

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Fu-people have also shown their support for series like Breakfast by 想再見你.

2. Fetishization of queer men in yaoi

By that standard, is Minamoto Kazuki fetishizing straight women through his works?

source

Minamoto Kazuki is a gay mangaka who creates straight romance and smut.

Arguably, his most famous manga, at least in BL fandom, is Wall Circle’s Doujin Artist Nekoyashiki-Kun’s Desire for Recognition Grows which got live action adaptation: KabeKoji in 2022.

Apart from creating commercial BL and yaoi (self-published BL like the ones in the image given above), he has also authored an autobiographical work titled Shoujo Manga Artist Minamoto-San Comes Out and a manga exploring queer life and homophobia titled The Gay Who Turned Kaiju.

Moreover, many scholars, mangaka, fans, etc. from Asia and elsewhere have already spoken/written plenty about the issue of fetishization. Here's a compilation of resources.

3. zero critical consumption and leveraging of abusive concepts

I wonder why it is assumed that BL is consumed without critical thinking. It is true that BL, especially MAME's BL, are not didactic. TharnType is a BL with odo (royal road) narrative progression. It is not one of the sweet BL that GMMTV produces. Due to a general lack of BL literacies, there are off-the-mark expectations associated with BL, particularly Thai BL. Hence, odo BL seems to violate a lot of these misguided expectations.

TharnType is a well-done odo BL, in my opinion. "Leveraging of abusive concepts" is not a failure but a feature.

When it comes to depiction of abuse, there are those who think that it always gives the wrong message. There are variety in opinions on what is the right way to go about it. BL being an accommodating genre has space for all sorts of treatment. Even in live action, there is good variety in terms of how the theme is treated. But nothing is everyone’s cup of tea. This being the case it is understandable if someone like how MAME handles abuse, just as it is understandable if someone doesn't.

Assuming that fans don't engage critically with the theme and are mindlessly consuming it, have the implication of infantilizing the audience - as though they are without faculties of discretion and are incapable of making judgements. It also has the added implication of demonizing all media concerning queer people that deals with abuse. If MAME’s approach is deemed “unsafe” for queer population, based on that judgement, where does BL and gei comi that offer erotic treatment of abuse fall? What about queer people producing and consuming them?

That brings me to the points @nieves-de-sugui has raised.

4. how much all of these tropes where used (and still are). I believe that when things are made for tv they should take all the things you mentioned into account more than they do.

I believe that makers of live action queer content are very cautious. Thanks to that we are yet to get live action adaptation of any gei comi.

I have seen mainstream media ignore Gengoroh Tagame (probably the most popular gay mangaka creating content aimed at androphilic men) and his works for years in spite of his tangible influence on East Asian queer men. And then suddenly creating a live action adaptation of his all-ages manga My Brother’s Husband.

Who will dare to adapt his works Gunji or Fisherman’s Lodge or Pride? How can we show rape, trauma and taboo involving queer people on screen? What message will it give to the queer population? To the non-queer population?

A scene from Fisherman’s Lodge. Image courtesy of @finalatomicbuster.

If MAME was not involved in producing her BL, it is doubtful if it would have ever happened the way it did. Almost all BL adaptation is a censored adaptation, with notable exceptions like Sei no Gekiyaku. Recently, 25 Ji, Akasaka de (2024) removed complicated sexual content (including a dub-con episode) from the volume 1 of the manga, which was critical to the story and the couple’s development, in adaptation. Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro ka (2024) went as far as removing the more sexual second couple from the live action adaptation probably because makers thought it was better not to go anywhere near cruelty.

The first ever anime adaptation of a gei comi, Shin Yaranai ka based on Junichi Yamakawa's Kuso Miso Technique, is *sigh* disappointing to say the least.

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I wanted to quickly mention What Did You Eat Yesterday yaoi version since @waitmyturtles mentioned the series.

5. What Did You Eat Yesterday

I want to highlight that What Did You Eat Yesterday was not a BL in publication. It was published in Morning, a conservative magazine for middle-aged men. This is what got a live action adaptation.

Fumi Yoshinaga has created a proper BL doujin series that includes content that couldn't be part of publication in Morning.

Here are some panels from the two latest volumes of the yaoi. I wonder if audience would have had the same impression of the show if they had incorporated the doujin bits too.

6. One piece of the puzzle that's missing here is Thai rape culture that blankets all of their society.

This is an important point @yousaygoodbyeandisay raised and it applies not just to Thailand.

Sexual assault as a theme in BL, handled in a myriad of ways, has been the case since the inception of the genre. I have discussed the history in the context of Japan here.

It was during the publication of JUNE magazine that the importance of depiction of sexual assault in BL became clear to the editor through response letters from readers.

June is a place of therapistic rehabilitation for those women who had experiences of mental and physical abuses as a female. Mr. Sagawa said that he cannot ignore that there are not a few readers who had such experiences during their childhood.

source

MAME studied BL and its production academically (you can find her research output by searching her name: อรวรรณ วิชญวรรณกุล) before she entered live action production. She not only know what she is writing/creating but also is willing to deal with difficult themes without taking sweet, fable-like route.

Now onto the points @mikuni14 raised.

7. my shock seeing so much SA related stuff (the show covered just about every problematic sex thing there is, and finally forgave the heinous criminal instead of putting him in jail. I don't know how MAME can create for example AePete and also somany vile things

For those who don’t know, MAME is a unique Thai BL creator. Thai BL creators on average lack BL literacies for various reasons. MAME is one of the exceptions. This is because:

she is a BL author & hence, one of the creators of BL literacies

she studied BL and its production academically [you can find her research output by searching her name: อรวรรณ วิชญวรรณกุล]

then she started producing live action BL

In an industry which is lacking in BL literacies, what she brings to the table is fu-culture (BL fan culture) in all its glory. Unfortunately, the live action audience who are fans of sweet BL, have a hard time adjusting.

Here are some typical narrative progressions for a (Japanese) BL:

あまあま – sweet

ユニーク – unique

シリアス – serious

邪道 – evil road (jadō)

王道 - royal road (odo)

Any theme/one-line plot can choose to take any of these narrative progressions. Moreover, Thai BL usually originates online which allows for innovation.

MAME employs different narrative progressions for different ships. AePete follows the typical sweet BL progression. KengklaTechno follows jado and TharnType odo.

TarTum is a sweet BL, complicated by them being step-brothers. While their pairing is barely on odo, Tum as a character has a complicated odo progression within their ship.

Since TharnType is an odo BL all wrong-doings are not punished. Take for example KinnPorsche, another odo BL, where the ending can’t be 'organized crime gets the main characters in jail'. In odo BL involving crime, most of the victims are usually cannon fodders. So, characters are not bothered much by the crime. But in MAME's universe, Tum is an important character, someone designed to make audience root for him. Hence the audience can’t dismiss the crimes against him. It is not wrong to want the narrative to have Lhong jailed. If TharnType was a sweet BL, it would have gone there.

8. selective memory

Selective memory is indicative of preferences and it helps to fine tune BL consumption. MAME's storytelling incorporates diverse elements. Those who enjoy her works also might find that there something or the other that isn't to their taste. This is an important part of BL literacies.

I enjoy dangerous characterizations over subdued ones and prefer a meriba more than a happy ending. While there are plenty of BL media with those, they are super rare in live action. So, I appreciate MAME for taking into account fans who want something different from sweet BL.

Here are the points @bengiyo raised:

9. What Did You Eat Yesterday v/s Old Fashion Cupcake

This has nothing to do with MAME but has to do with BL literacies more generally. Old Fashion Cupcake is more appealing to BL fans because it is a BL and hence not sanitized to continue run on a conservative magazine. So, it permeates moe (affect). Moreover, creators of Old Fashion Cupcake are better informed than creators of What Did You Eat Yesterday in terms of BL literacies. So, the direction and acting works better in the former than the latter.

9. The Effect feeling like the first huge volley leveled at BL from within the genre.

I am always amazed at the takes on the Effect. Somehow it is assumed to be a critique of BL genre. That's not the case. The Effect is a proper jado BL.

What audience are picking up on is the 'I can do it better' spirit that motivates a lot of BL creation. It is natural for audience to feel like the depiction of complex themes, such as sexual abuse, bullying, delinquency, identity theft, murder, infidelity, pregnancy, etc. are not dealt with well. Creating BL that fits one's taste better is one way authors and artists go about addressing the issue. That is how we end up with same theme dealt with in numerous ways. When that expands, we end up with sub-genres and BL categories.

Jado BL are rare, particularly in Thai BL.

It is difficult to sell BL with jado and other narrative progressions. It becomes even more difficult to sell branded pairings when the characters they play are not impeccable. It is unlikely that actors playing bad guys can sell products for advertisers. (Imagine the characters from The Effect being in ads together!) It is even more unlikely that fans would go broke behind wicked characters and would want to attend fan-meetings and concerts featuring them in some way.

This is also so as not to trouble the average audience’s worldview (世界観) and is clearly a low effort and low skill (in terms of BL literacies) approach. But since a lot of audience don’t appreciate villain-like characterization, it is clearly low risk, no chance of a backlash from angry audience and the best method for assured money making.

@respectthepetty has also flagged the next issue:

10. History3: Make Our Days Count.

Gays were being buried and put in prison in Taiwanese BLs in the same year it legalized marriage equality.

There is a lot of ethnocentrism in the hate that MODC gets, apart from lack of BL literacies. While I understand where that take is coming from given American media history in the context of Hayes code, AIDS crisis, etc., I wish media from elsewhere would be looked at independently.

Queer narratives everywhere have their own over-used tropes and historical issues. Malayalam media, for example, has the issue of having one of two queer characters having varathan vibe (Rosy in Ponnaranjanam, Kiran in Sancharram, Antony's boyfriend in Mumbai Police, Kiran in My Life Partner, etc.) that makes them look odd in Kerala's rurban landscape. Even Kaathaloram played into this trope. The problem is that it perpetuates the belief that queerness is an import of sorts.

Mindless application of media critique learned from the west leads to the brushing aside of pertinent issues with media of the region in favor of finding legitimacy via commonality with the west. That way we end up with crits accusing Moothon of employing bury the gay trope while ignoring that:

Moothon is a gangster action flick like Kammattippaadam

It is rare for romances irrespective of the gender of the main characters and genre of the movie to have happy ending in Malayalam. In fact, almost all great love stories in Malayalam movies are tragedies. This is unlike in Hollywood where heterosexual romances usually get happy endings.

more importantly, every queer character, including Latheef, is infused with varathan vibe.

Taiwanese BL has issues worth exploring. Issues of their own media - not varathan queer trope from Malayalam media or bury your gay trope from American media.

MODC was an dealing with well-established BL tropes (like any other show in the History franchise). It explored bereavement (a tribute to Lan Yu, first ever danmei live action adaptation) and substitute lover trope.

The series introduced a doppelgänger of Yu XiGu (Xiang HaoTing’s white moonlight), a perfect candidate for substitute lover trope. But instead of pursuing it, they subverted the trope.

History franchise, which was build to grow BL and BL literacy in Taiwan, ended up victim to prejudice since it failed to measure up to foreign standards. MODC offered something rare. The audience didn't appreciate it. They dismissed it for not measuring up to expectations colored by experiences which danmei is not connected with for historical reasons.

By that standard, would tongzhi literature from Taiwan too have to make amends for sins of the west towards its queers? Imagine stripping of death as a theme from tongzhi author Chiang-Sheng Kuo's works! Then there is also difference in how death is perceived in different societies.

Why must BL be arm-twisted to fit into norms from elsewhere and correct the wrongs of someone else?

11. BL profit off LGBT community

This is really interesting. There are many questions that I can think of that is linked to this take:

Is BL really profitable? Short answer is no. Long answer here.

Is it really LGBT community that BL profits off?

Probably not. It is moe that BL sells. That imo, is the main difference between BL and other queer genres.

Anyway, BL predates LGBT acronym. It predates de-pathologization of homosexuality in many BL creating regions. Fu-people were creating BL before mainstream media started representing queer people in media. Fu-people battled state and its censors everywhere along with queer people. Live action BL surely is commercialized. But that is capitalism reaping the dividends of decades of fu-people's labor of love.

@he-is-lightning-in-a-bottle raised the following point.

12. 2019 saw significant increase in quantity and quality of BL. Since then, live actions smoothed out the rougher edges of the source material (like what happened with Kinnporsche and Love in the Air).

While I understand the rational behind toning down dangerous characterization to appeal to the largest audience, I think that kind of censorship for commercialization limits potential of the genre. The impact is most visible in case of GMMTV BL such as Only Friend (where it could neither be sweet BL nor could it embark properly on jado).

Compare it with adaptation of the ero-BL Sei no Gekiyaku. It stayed true to the content and pushed the boundaries enough to bring about convergence between gay pinku cinema and BL. When BL is allowed to explore its potential freely, it not only imparts BL literacies but also makes it possible for other queer genres to gain new audience, which in turn encourages production houses to venture into different queer genres.

jjsanguine raised the following point.

13. I don't even hate toxic characters or plotlines, actually I love them. But like even if the characters don't know they're doing it, the show should. And it really really doesn't. And neither do the fans. Kind of alarming.

This is in relation to Lhong and San.

Lhong is a yandere in a odo BL. (for detailed discussion see Part 3) It is a matter of the world view and less about show's self-awareness (which I believe it has). If TharnType was an jado BL, Tharn could have ended up with Lhong and Type would be the stalking horse.

@jjsanguine later commented about how Lhong felt "goofy" by way of his over-the-top actions which made the show's convictions questionable.

San and Tharn's relationship was, to an extend, the most realistically depicted. I remember starting to learn about Thai queerness and realizing that a lot of elements in their relationship reads like ethnography. Consider for example Tharn being only fourteen at the time of sexual debut and San being older. This is not too different from the average age of sexual debut in Thailand. Despite it being a compoundable offense, average age of sexual debut is declining. Tharn's discovery of what he likes and dislikes and shedding cuteness (which San comments about) and adopting manliness (which Techno comments about) too is in line with what is observed among urban queer youth. Contrast this with Sky in Love in the Air whose sexual debut and exploitation are tied to his migration to urban landscape. Sky's backstory too read like ethnography and his vulnerability a reflection of the many others' in his society.

@absolutebl raised the following points:

14. Rape - as plot device - doesn't make good stories - lazy & bad writing: Feminist critique and modern narrative analysis.

Feminist and queer BL scholars from Akiko Mizoguchi to James Welker have discussed rape as a plot device in BL. Since experts have written plenty, I'll spare my effort discussing this misconception.

15. rape is an act of sexuality (or worse, sexy), it is NOT - it is an act of violence. But that is only the start to the way it’s chronically mishandled, especially in commercial fiction (of which romance makes the largest percentage).

Akiko Mizoguchi's two decade of work have addressed this in relation to Japanese BL which I feel holds true for BL more generally. Moreover, BL is not a romance sub-genre. BL is a genre in itself. A lot of BL is romance. There is enough overlap between those genres to give the impression that BL is a romance sub-genre. But there are plenty of other works too. Like One Room Angel and Social Reform Season. Similarly, BL is not a porn sub-genre. A lot of BL is porn. But come on!

16. [MAME] produces consistent highly-profitable narratives by-and-about queer folks but utterly disingenuous to the queer experience and that defines exploitation in the ET industry... Right, just adding that yes BL does not represent (in any way) the reality of being queer in any of these countries.

I have already discussed how MAME's works are intersectional reflections of queer experience. BL has been reflecting different queer experiences in Japan even before the term boys' love emerged. But narrow, ethnocentric ideas of queerness doesn't lend itself to honest understanding of other forms and representation. Consider characters being addressed as เมีย ‘wife’. It is a Thai queer practice. One can always dismiss that since it sounds heterosexist in the culture one comes from as absolutebl does in this post. That, imo, is 'disingenuous to the queer experience' of Thai people.

The question is what are westerners missing in their own countries' queer media that they feel they must just judge everything with no care for the cultures and people producing content for themselves? Seriously, what have the westernization done to some in the audience that they emerge so desperate for queer content that they watch BL yet remain blind to the cultures (fu-culture in particular) that produce them and splooge vitriolic ethnocentrism?

That concludes this discourse series. I want to sincerely thank everyone who contributed to and inspired this 🙏.

Other parts: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

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tm-trx · 1 year

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Only Friends.01

I was on the fence about starting this one, but I decided for the sake of my blacklist to just go for it. Thoughts behind the cut:

A few stream-of-consciousness bullet point notes, taken as I was watching

"viewer discretion is advised" - is this as uncommon for a GMMTV BL as I think?

of course they're all still in college; I guess it was too much to hope for this show to be centered around working adults

does Mew actually want to lose his virginity or are his friends just being obnoxious? he doesn't seem too concerned about it, so I'm leaning towards obnoxious drunk friends (ugh)

Mew being the center of this show is a surprise, but I like it. I like him more and more as the episode goes on. (Or maybe the episodes will take turns focusing on different characters?)

oh good, no one took Ray's keys :/

so how did Mew stay a virgin this long if he’s so quick to invite a guy home? he's very self-assured

ah okay that answers that question - it’s likely he’s taken other guys home and not gone through with it with them either

First and Khao - when it's just the two of them I'm riveted; how are they so good?!

I love Mew - “I don’t want a one night stand because I’m sensitive and will want you as my boyfriend and heartbreak sucks” - self-assured AND forthright

however cuddling can have the same effect, Mew, careful there

smart friends: Top’s only been around a week - who knows what his intentions are

classic romance trope: Sand told Ray off and now Ray's interested

so Boston had one night with Top and clearly wants more but Top has become interested enough in Mew to want to date him - that's going to go well

lmao Sand’s face when Top asked for the mic

seriously Top, public declaration? am I gonna have to mute already?!

when he breaks Mew’s heart it’s gonna be bad - I can't wait

that end credits shot was gorgeous wow (see above)

Based on Top and Boston's conversation at the end, I'm going to go ahead and assume that Top is serious about pursuing Mew and it's not just to get another notch on his bedpost. But it's only been a week, and who knows what the "boyfriend" label entails as far as expectations. Hopefully, we'll see Mew ask, because I want to see how honest Top will be with him from the get go.

Weird stray thought: Is it me or do Mew's glasses scream "serial killer?" A hint of what's to come, when Top inevitably breaks his heart? [No, I don't actually think Mew will go on a murder spree. But he's clearly 'one of the quiet ones' to watch out for. At least I'm rooting for him to be. I watch soaps; I am here for that drama.]

#only friends the series #only friends #thai drama #ql drama #tmtrx watches dramas #i generally don't do meta but if you like bullet points this one's for you

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maybe-boys-do-love · 2 months

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I get that QL series world is currently in a full-on renaissance moment with a feast of offerings rn, but it’s def weird to me that the vibe among QL fans is to focus on whatever shows are on and then move on to the next ones.

I’m a newbie coming from a fandom culture where one series was the sole focus and point of analysis, so it’s very different than what I’m used to.

#don’t mind me writing metas about old shows like anyone else cares lol #bl drama #ql drama #thai bl #as opposed to analysis of a single show being the thing everyone references #the metas that seem most important to the fandom are about tropes and language and culture broadly #makes u wonder what we’re missing and gaining from this style of fandom #and makes me wonder what shows will end up standing the test of time #but I love the idea of a canon for a genre so 🤷🏻‍♀️#i sometimes think about starting a blog to poll people about what should be in the ql canon

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my-rose-tinted-glasses · 2 months

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There is so much airing right now. It's insane. July is already crazy but with more coming in August I'll probably do a shorter version of this mid august to kinda keep all the shows straight in my head. And I know we still have a couple of days left this month but I wanted to do this to close the weekend. Also because I'm watching a lot this is gonna be long. And also. Spoilers and opinions below, read at your own risk.

QL - Currently Watching

🇹🇭 4 Minutes [1/8] - Living for the visuals in this show. Just like with DFF, I feel the framing is very intentional. Only one episode so, for now, I'm very intrigued by the premise and the characters and will be looking forward to the meta that will no doubt be a big part of watching this show for me, as with dff. Also, is it just me or is Jes just ridiculously handsome?

🇯🇵 Ayaka is in Love with Hiroko! [4/8] - I love it here. I'm having such a good time with this show. Hiroko is the master of selective perception even when Ayaka is trying so hard to make her see. I'm looking forward to see what happens next. Also we had a small moment of running to the beloved!!!

🇹🇭 Century of Love [5/10] - Did not see this coming. After The Trainee this is the thai bl I look forward to the most weekly. Daou is doing excellent work, even as he's softening because he's in looooove, I can still see the demeanour of the 100 years old man. Love reading all the theories after the last episode. I'm on team Vee is Vad, and the girl is an imposter with sinister intent.

🇯🇵 I Hear the Sunspot [5/12] - It's excellent. I love Taichi, he doesn't always understand Kohei, or himself, but he will stay by his side regardless. That moment in the stairs was probably my favourite so far. I'm expecting this show to break my heart again.

🇹🇭 I Saw You In My Dream [2/12] - It's cute. I like the premise but I've been burned by Thailand when they venture a bit into high concept so we'll see. I like the characters and the actors so far. At least there seems to be communication between the leads which for me is already a win.

🇹🇭 Knock Knock, Boys! [10/12] - Latte and Almond are great in their boyfriend era. They seem comfortable with each other without being way too cutesy which honestly would feel kinda weird for them, especially Latte. Poor Thanwa though. Look I feel for Peak. He lost his mum and so not wanting to disappoint the remaining parent is completely understandable but damn, I wish he got some nerve and spoke for himself. I really hope the boys visit will give him the support he needs to finally do what he needs to do.

🇹🇭🇨🇳 Meet You At the Blossom [6/12] - I'm watching because it's kinda historic but I'm not enjoying it as much as other people so I'll just say there are some funny bits and some cute moments.

🇯🇵 Mitsuya Sensei no Keikakutekina Ezuke [1/10] - Oh Japan how you spoil me. Chaotic boy✔ Older openly queer man✔ Food✔ Dog✔. I'm in jbl heaven.

🇹🇭Love Sea [8/12] - I'm watching.

🇹🇭My Love Mix-Up! [7/12] -I'm stopping the weekly viewing of this one and probably binge it when it's over. I probably shouldn't but I know myself and my curiosity will win in the end. I've said a couple of things what bugged me about this show and this thread started by @twig-tea and all the reblogs [@bengiyo @hallowpen @silviakundera @doublel27] are an excellent read and the reason this last episode finally made me drop my weekly viewing. It was bad before but now it makes me too angry and there's a lot airing atm, so I'm choosing joy.

🇹🇭 SunsetxVibes [6/12] - It's just fun for the most part. I'm honestly trying not to think too hard about this one because there are some things that just make no sense. Also I keep getting confused by the time on this show. The editing is weird. But like I said, I'm trying not to think about it and just enjoy the ridiculousness. Definitely more into the side couple's dynamic.

🇯🇵 Takara No Vidro [4/11] - What an excellent time it is for jqls. I'm fascinated by Takara and desperately need to know more about him and it seems I'm gonna get my wish next episode. Maybe it's the hole Hayama left in me, but for some reason I find some similarities between them. Something about people liking them on a surface level, and isolating themselves and encountering someone who sees them in a different way and being drawn to that. I also like how the show is using the episode storylines. The creep episode was interesting given that Taishin was called a creep early on, for following Takara to uni, so the contrast worked well in establishing that Taishin motivations are completely different. And then the stan episode was really interesting not only in reinforcing the idea that Taishin was really sheltered growing up but also he's so lost and confused so he's just looking for clues as to what he's feeling for Takara. 🇹🇭 This Love Doesn't Have Long Beans [4/8] . I'm watching for the sides.

🇹🇭 The Rebound [10/12] - I guess the crazy ended with a bang, or several, and now we're back to our regularly scheduled programming with a very average high school bl. Also, can we stop having sick grandmas drive the narrative?

🇹🇭 The Trainee [3/10] - I love everything about it. First of all, Jane. Look, I've loved Off since my first OffGun show, which was Theory of Love, and every character since then has only increased my devotion. Him and Mix had me weekly watching a show (The Jungle) that in normal circumstances I wouldn't waste a day one let alone 16 whole episodes. I have a problem. And I thought Ten was the ceiling honestly but Jane is just another level. Not only is he, oh so pretty in this, but his character is just perfection. He's tough but reasonably so, will give credit where it's due, notices the people around him and will apologize if he's in the wrong. And yes, that hand gesture have me fanning myself. Ryan has no business being in that company honestly, but I'm a sucker for an underdog that tries and improves and is genuinely a good human for the people around him. Oh and also, this show is funny. I'm having a great time and I'm always excited for the next episode. Please be... nope, I won't go there. It's great.

QL - Finished

🇯🇵A Man Who Defies the World of BL 3 - First of all massive thanks to @ikeoji-subs for making it possible to finally watch this season. I think this is my favourite season so far. I love Mob's and Hatano storyline and would very much like a fourth season to see what happens next. @emotionallychargedtowel wrote here and here some of the reasons why this character is so different from all the ones we've seen so far and I also speculated in the tags about how he could connect to the mangaka and that's why he can hear some of Mob's thoughts and see him breaking the fourth wall. Either way there's not enough information. I need more. I definitely think Mob is struggling more to keep his secondary characters status this season. I adore Ayato and Toujou. So many couples and so many tropes, I was in heaven. I still need to rewatch all of it.

🇯🇵Ossan no Pants ga Nandatte Ii Janai ka! - Fansubbers are angels and deserve the world, so once again, massive thanks to @isaksbestpillow for allowing me the privilege to watch this show. And what a privilege it was. I'm gonna miss this family so much. The kindness and empathy of these characters will stay with me for a long time. I wish everyone would watch this show and I can't really find the words to talk about this show but this post by @lurkingshan explains way better than I ever could all the reasons this show is an incredible watch, as does this spoiler free pitch by @twig-tea. So do yourself a favor and go watch it. 🇹🇭 Wandee Goodday - I love Cher and Oyei.

🇹🇭 We Are - Final thoughts here.

Rose Watches OJBL

Nothing to report this month. The obvious reason being the absolutely insane number of shows in the currently watching list.

Others - Watched

BL Metamorphosis (2022) Kashimashi Meshi (2023) Second Chance (2021)

As usual my ask box is open for questions or requests. Have a wonderful week💜

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