#my stand in meta

[sunshinechay]

Ming is still waiting for Joe. Ming is still waiting for Joe 2 years after his death disappearance. Ming finally realized too late that he loves Joe more than anything and is dedicated to waiting for him so he can make it up to him. It’s heartbreaking, not just from the perspective of the fact that Ming is the lover left behind but also the fact that he knows he is the cause of it. He knows he destroyed Joe’s life in his desperate attempt not to lose the only thing in his life that truly made him happy.

He still waits up for him, leaves the lights on, cooks dinner for him and waits to be able to greet him when he comes home. So many others have accepted that Joe is likely dead and if he isn’t, that he isn’t coming back but not Ming. Ming was excited at the smallest of sounds, at the idea that it might mean that Joe has returned to him.

He has gone from being unable to accept that Tong does not like him and is a bad influence on him, to being unable to accept that Joe is gone and is never coming back.

It makes the fact that he is about to repeat the cycle both interesting and completely heartbreaking. Ming wants to make it up to Joe but never got the chance. Ming has grown stagnant and unchanging because of it. He hasn’t learned to let go and will continue to cling to anything that reminds him of Joe. He will see Joe attempt to reclaim what little bits of his old life that he can (his friends, his co workers, his job) and start anew even if no one ever knows it’s him and Ming will force himself along for the ride.

And Joe will let him, because no matter what has happened between them, Joe still loves Ming. He still loves Ming more than anything else in the world. So he will let Ming repeat the cycle, even as he tries to resist because in the end, there is a large part of him that would rather be a stand in for who he used to be rather than lose Ming completely.

One day though, Ming is going to realize that this new Joe is actually his Joe. That his Joe has come home to him, albeit different than when he left. Ming will finally get the opportunity to welcome him home the way he wants too. He will finally have the opportunity to learn in a way he has been putting off and pushing back because if Joe is not around to see him change, is that change worth it?

Yes it is, but Ming is so focused on getting Joe back, on getting noticed by Joe. Everything he has done for the last two years has been in a effort to make Joe notice him again. To convince Joe in one way or another to come home.

Now Joe is home and it will be up to Ming to prove himself, to finally learn and to leave his toxic behaviour in the past. Hopefully he can do that before he loses this Joe forever.

[ineffable-opinions]

Danmei tropes in My Stand-In

This is a quick introduction to some popular BL tropes that are fairly new to live-action BL:

wife chasing crematorium

substitute lover

transmigration

(Contains spoilers)

All corrections and critiques are welcome.

As you probably know My Stand-In is based on the danmei novel Professional Body Double. Specifically, it belongs to 188男团 (“188 group” where 188 cm is the height of every gong (seme) in the novel series). It is a shared universe of novels with characters from one featuring in another and almost all gong are very scummy (or “red-flag” so to speak) initially.

Trope #1: wife chasing crematorium

What 188 group novels all have in common is the trope popularly known among English-speaking fandom as “wife chasing crematorium”. This is a super-popular trope, not only in danmei.

origin 追妻火葬场 (zhuī qī huǒzàng chǎng; chasing his wife’s crematorium) derived from the longer phrase 傲娇一时爽，追妻火葬场 (àojiāo yīshí shuǎng, zhuī qī huǒzàng chǎng; Tsundere was on his high horse for a while, now chasing his wife’s crematorium.) Alternative form: 追夫火葬场 (zhuī fū huǒzàng chǎng; chasing husband’s crematorium) – usually involves scum shou (uke) chasing after his gong (seme) after initially abusing gong’s love.

The trope involves the love interest being initially cold or even cruel to the protagonist who is in love. This continues until all of that love gone. By then, the love interest would have come to his senses, eager to seek forgiveness and chase after the protagonist. In some cases, the love is already lost irrevocably, especially when the protagonist is dead – hence, literal crematorium. There are also works where the love interest is discarded all together and protagonist moves on to someone else. Rarely, there are works where the protagonist is the scum.   

In 188 group novels, this is how the basic structure of wife chasing crematorium:

Shou loves gong. Gong treats shou terribly.

Gong goes too far. Shou is fed-up and leaves gong, one way or other. Gong realises that he has been in love all along.

Gong regrets his action and chases after shou. Grovelling ensues.

Gong and shou gets back together. Gong dotes on shou and the couple face other challenges (family, villains) together, if any. Happy ending.

Fans are in it for the melodrama. They want to watch scummy gong to go too far, the relationship to break down and for the gong to grovel and make amends through various selfless deeds, until they reestablish the relationship and trust (as much as possible). Every one of those stories end with a happy ending with the gong endlessly doting on shou and the relationship having turned wholesome.

Trope #2: substitute lover

Other than the previous trope Professional Body Double and its adaptation My Stand-In involves the “substitute lover” trope.

Substitute lover trope involves, usually the gong, having a 白月光 (white moonlight): a person whom he loves a lot but can’t reach/touch. This is usually his first love and has a profound impact on him.

Aside: White moonlight in itself is a common trope. Both Vip Only and Sahara Sensei to Toki-kun used white moonlight trope to in a typical kishōtenketsu narrative structure.  

Since white moonlight is unattainable, gong finds a substitute lover.

The relationship between gong and substitute lover is usually just physical. This is because gong doesn’t plan to move on from white moonlight, instead stubbornly carries the torch. Gong doesn’t plan on betraying the pure feeling he have for his white moonlight by giving any of his love to anyone else. So, he tries to ensure that no love leaks out of the dam he has built to store his love for the white moonlight. This is, from gong’s POV, a kind of emotional fidelity which he extends to his white moonlight. A tribute of gong’s unshakable love for his white moonlight.

The substitute lover sometimes resembles white moonlight in some way –

in body – first ever live action BL (shonen-ai actually) adaptation Summer Vacation 1999 (1988) based of Hagio Moto’s The Heart of Thomas plays around with this trope, a lot. More recently, Playboyy sorta lampshaded it with the twins premise.

in spirit – a recent example is Love is Better the Second Time Around wherein prof. Takashi sleeps with his assistant Shiraishi Yuto because the assistant (or his desperation at least) reminded him of his white moonlight Miyata Akihiro.

Aside: There is only one live-action BL that actively subverted this trope: HIStory3: Make Our Days Count. The series introduced a doppelgänger of Yu XiGu (Xiang HaoTing’s white moonlight), a perfect candidate for substitute lover trope. But instead of pursuing it, they subverted the trope.

There are usually two outcomes to the substitute lover trope:

gong falls for substitute lover. In some cases, this involves white moonlight turning into rival or villain.

gong and his white moonlight get together. In this case, substitute lover turn into rival or get a lover of his own.

Itsuka no Kimi e, first ever live-action adaptation of a yaoi manga, employed substitute lover trope in one of its best executions. It is so brilliantly done that I can’t think of anything topping that, unless 4th volume (particularly the case-solving plot involving the photography club) of Takumi-kun series gets live action adaptation.

Trope #3: transmigration  

Basic premise of Professional Body Double and its adaptation My Stand-In revolves around transmigration of soul.

This too is a popular trope in BL. One of the most popular danmei Mo Dao Zu Shi and its adaptation The Untamed involves this trope.

Maybe I should say set-up instead of trope for this one. Transmigration involves soul of a character getting transferred to a body different from his own at the time of triggering event.

Own body, different time – either past or future. When past is involved, it is likely a do-over story where the protagonist gets to redo their life, change their love interest, make different life choices, take different course of action, etc.

Reincarnation – completely different lifetime but with retained memories of past-life/lives. Until We Meet Again; Choco Milk Shake (different lifetime for the pets)

Different body, present (near-present) time – character’s soul enters a different person’s body. The character gets involved in his previous circumstances but now in a different capacity. Revive (2016), that danmei adaptation no one ever talks about, went to town with this set-up.

Different body, different life – soul enters character in a book, game, simulation, etc. and would be primarily tasked to thrive there. One Room Angel (2023) explored a type of badro with this set-up.

With transmigration set-up, it is common to have one of these two:

Transmigrator retaining some connection to previous life.

Transmigrator’s previous life doesn’t matter anymore.

These Tropes in My Stand-In

These tropes are explored to varying degrees and with different levels of efficiency in Professional Body Double. In its live-action adaptation, there are a bunch of limitations. Primary one being the cultural difference – audience of a danmei novel are already familiar with these tropes to some extend but the live-action audience is one which has been primarily consuming sweet BL from Thailand that are inherently deficient in BL literacies.

Another is the khujin problem. Branded pairs are very important to Thai BL industry, so they cannot have two different actors playing before and after transmigration. (Actually, this was not impossible but there hasn’t been any precedent. Also, The Untamed enjoyed success by having Xiao Zhan play pre- and post-transmigration Wei WuXian. I wish they tried two khujin (UpPoom & UpWinner) one couple, since they chose to introduce Winner as pre-transmigration Joe. I don’t know, maybe that’s asking for fan wars and pitting actors against each other.) [In the tags, @deliriousblue reflects on what having two different actors could do with example from Cupid's Last Wish (a series I haven't watched) and its impact on audience on an emotional level. @myezblog has commented that Alchemy of Souls (another I haven't watched) is an excellent example of transmigration played two different actors.]

Third limitation is one that comes from medium – you can’t have long monologues in live-action. This deprives audience of the inner workings of character’s minds. Most of the motives, especially Ming’s trouble with warring desires of his heart, is inaccessible to the audience. @clairedaring have posted a deep-dive by Liltsu into some of that here.

Aside: Another interesting trope is giving watch (a taboo gift) – Chinese superstition rising from 送钟 (gifting watch) and 送终 (to bury the dead/attend funeral) being homophones. Taboo gift trope - white lilies associated with death and funerals - have appeared in Summer Vacation 1999 (1988) and Forbidden Love; both of these have substitute lover and death.

Ming’s characterization as a young master, coming from money and prestige that breeds arrogance and deficient in empathy (this post by @tungtung-thanawat is particularly enlightening) is a highlight of his cruelty as a 188 group gong.

While redemption of scum gong is what 188 group offers its audience, it is not necessarily what live-action audience would be wanting from the set-up. It is likely that a part of the audience was in fact looking for revenge plot.

As @lurkingshan highlighted in this post there is no exploration of identity (tied to Joe’s body pre- and post-transmigration) forth-coming precisely because this isn’t that kind of story and body is only treated as a temporary shelter for the soul for most part when transmigration trope is involved. Moreover, the novel is steeped in Confucian values. So, most of the resolution to what it means for Joe to have a mother now is dealt through his selfless gratitude and the filial piety he offers her.

The same is the case with his old body – a proper funeral for that body is what he owes his own parents for having given flesh and blood to the body which housed his soul previously. Remarkably, his own house figures prominently as an inheritance and as an enduring connection to his own parents – a bond more precious to that him than the bond he had to his old body. I am unsure how much of those core Confucian values they will retain in the live-action adaptation, given the cultural difference.

As @befuddledcinnamonroll discusses here, it is tied to cultural ideas of self, religious beliefs, etc.

@bengiyo has pointed out a weakness in execution of the transmigration trope over the substitute lover trope: the latter is a recurring and inverted trope in this series while the former plays out straight. Even though it is clear that coma!Joe is basically friendless and his career already dead (or that he has no career to speak of), it might have been better to hint at a lack of resolution and impending doom, and build anticipation by leaving clues about the troubles that coma!Joe has left behind. That way when the substitute lover trope peaks again, audience would feel as trapped as Joe.

This is where I think Revive (2016) did a better job with friends, colleagues, past-lovers and rivals especially with such similar set-ups: entertainment industry, classism, scum gong, and intersecting lives pre- and post-transmigration.

[hotasfahrenheit]

i've seen a lot of people loving Ming's look for the last chunk of episode 10 and different commentary on it and just wanted to throw out there that the first thing it made me think of is G-Dragon and his love of Chanel women's blazers. i know basically Ming's whole wardrobe has been luxury brands this whole show, and i have no idea what brand that blazer is, but i'm sure it's expensive as heck.

if you're not into kpop enough to know who GD is, he's an absolute fashion icon and easily one of the most influential kpop idols of all time, so Ming being inspired by his fashion choices would completely make sense and just continue to show off the fact that Ming is a rich bitch 🤣

i find it interesting that if you think of it that way instead of thinking of it as a Hilary Clinton Blazer (which IS funny) or a white woman outfit, it changes the center of Ming's choice of clothing to being more about a potential statement of his own fame and power in the entertainment industry as well as this situation. G-Dragon is hugely successful and popular even now, with BigBang on hiatus for years at this point (even if you consider Still Life as a full comeback which it wasn't since there was no album (i cry about this song somewhat regularly don't look at me)), and despite all the various controversies and nonsense that he's dealt with through the years both as part of the group and on his own. Ming is clearly into fashion and as a model and actor would absolutely know who G-Dragon is and thus would also probably follow his style choices avidly.

Ming's clothing through this whole show has been a lense on him as a person- wealthy, stylish in his own clothes, but doing things like wearing Joe's tshirt, treasuring the watch Joe bought him, asking for the matching pajamas; wearing that blazer he's evoking a powerful, notorious public figure who has weathered hardship and scandals and fluctuating public opinion and still come out on top every time. Doing so when he's meeting with Tong to put him in his place, as a popular and famous member of the entertainment industry meeting another popular and famous member of the entertainment industry, he's absolutely sending Tong a message that he is more powerful and very certain of his place in the world, and will be able to handle anything Tong can throw at him.

continuing to wear that blazer when meeting with his father is a declaration of war.

[kevin-the-bruyne]

I really love Joe as a character. And I think the reason why he does in fact complement Ming so well is because he’s just as delightfully illogical. In many ways he’s quite similar to Ming in his approach to things but the praxis that drives his decision making comes from kindness rather than rich boy narcissism.

The entirety of episode 6 I’m looking at him and he’s made no growth from before his death. Sir PLEASE. you died entangled in the mess of your ex and ex’s married crush’s weird jealousy, Wut is trying to buy you some time so you can avoid it. But no somehow his dignity is more important than self preservation in this moment.

And yet when it comes to Ming and Sol (more about his past relationship with Sol) dignity is nowhere to be found. He doesn’t so much as want an apology when Sol had returned from Korea in life 1??? Like he’s broken every resolve of self preservation, diving headfirst into his past life for who? That woman isn’t his mother?????

And yes, while there would be a number of justifications behind still sacrificing yourself for a woman who’s been your mother for a short while, Joe is doing it because he loves her. There’s no resentment, no regrets, whining or complaining, he loves her so once more his dignity has no bearings on his decision making.

Joe is poor yes and he has setbacks but I think the narrative shows again and again that he’s not helpless. He stands up for himself when he needs to, he fights when he needs to and he also picks up Sol’s call in the middle of a fight with Ming because he’s not actually unaware of the status of his dignity around Ming as one might be at first led to believe. He becomes an actor when he needs to - in BOTH lives.

The state of his life and the states of his relationships have this element of choice to them that is so delightfully ???????? And I think the reason why there’s such a thriller like element to this story, even though the foul play around Joe’s death hasn’t made itself known in any big way yet, is because of this dichotomy in how he values his own dignity.

It’s always all or nothing with this man and ultimately I think that’s exactly what it’s like for Ming. If there’s a sin they ascribe to both of theirs is Pride…until it isn’t I guess 😂

[jehan-d-art]

the third time is the charm

So, I think it's not a secret that Ming is in love with Joe and has been in love with Joe from the start but just couldn't see it. It's a bit ironic that the main issue here is actually all about Ming seeing and looking at Joe but not really seeing the real Joe. The first time Ming fell in love with Joe was when he thought Joe was someone else, aka Tong, so Ming projected his attraction towards Joe onto Tong whom he thought he saw back then (no pun intended, though Ming basically did fall for someone's back). The second time Ming fell in love with Joe was when he was using Joe as a stand-in for the man he thought he had fallen in love with, aka once again none other than Tong. While Ming had to hide his feelings and who he is around Tong, Ming could be himself around Joe and just didn't understand why he felt so relaxed and happy around him. The third time Ming fell in love with Joe was when Joe was actually soul-swapped (for lack of a better word) and in someone else's body. Ming saw signs of the original Joe in the new Joe and thus, as Ming thought, signs of Tong. So Ming basically made Joe play the stand-in for not only Tong but also for Joe himself. Joe, still torn between love and hate, agreed and so the vicious circle continues for both of them - neither one of them is honest with himself but they both cling to what they know, even if it hurts them again and again. Talk about complicated relationships and love triangles when poor Joe is basically in a love square or something like that with himself... Ming is far from being a good person but his actions, even while overtly cruel at times, kind of make sense when it's taken into consideration that he is so very lonely and desperately wanting to hold onto what he is familiar with (aka Tong being unattainable and other people, aka Joe, being willing to give him what he wants even if it's fake if only Ming accepts certain terms and conditions). All the characters in this series have their flaws and they are beautifully portrayed, even the most terrible ones of them because in the end they are all so painfully human.

[dramarec]

I did not have annoying medical inaccuracy on my bingo card for this week's episode of My Stand-In, then again I don't know what I've expected. Inaccuracy is like the Spanish Inquisition. Bane of my existence, the thorn under my nail.

Joe's mom gets hospitalised due shortness of breath. The doctors diagnose pulmonary oedema, caused by end stage renal disease / kidney failure. So far we're good, and I appreciate chosing something outside the usual cancer/heart disease pool.

But then the doctor tells Joe, that his mother has septicaemia and requires lifelong hospital treatment to stay alive.

First of all, what an ESRD patient has is called uraemia not septicaemia. Those are very different things. Idk if the mistake is on the scriptwriter's part or on the translator's, and I'd be grateful if someone who spoke Thai could tell me!

Second of all, dialysis is usually done by outpatient treatment! Although Joe's mom would have to visit a dialysis station every three days for the rest of her life, she would be able to live her life outside of the hospital! And that is without considering alternative treatments like peritoneal dialysis or a kidney transplant.

The two options for my second points are either the Doylist bad writing (bleh) or the Watsonian the doctor is trying to scam Joe. Which is ridiculous, but in this series, a crazy sublot like this might fly...

[das-a-kirby-blog]

metadata wedding

[hermit-frog]

[leisi-lilacdreams]

some dpxdc content as a treat

original ref under cut

[sunshinechay]

Ming really has learned in both the best and worst ways. He has changed yet he is still stagnant. He is so different and the exact same person Joe knew 2 years ago.

Ming has learned to be more direct. He is so much more honest with what he wants and isn’t afraid to say it out loud anymore. He wants Joe to come back to him. He wants the chance to prove to Joe that he loves him, that he waited for him.

But he is still so selfish and single minded. He will still stop at nothing to get what he wants, to the detriment of others. He clings to a version of Joe that no longer exists. He waits for that Joe to come back even after the fortune teller tells him that Joe will come back to him in a way he never expected.

He wants his Joe back to badly that he will take advantage of Joe’s money troubles and his mother’s medical emergency to get a feeling. To get the sense that Joe 2.0 gives him. To feel like he is around HIS Joe again. And because of that, he is missing that Joe has come back to him. He misses that he is just repeating the same actions he did 2 years ago that caused Joe to be in the situation he is in.

I posited a few weeks ago that I think Ming is too in his own way to truly get what he wants. I think his actions this episode prove that even more. Ming will single mindedly ruin the lives of others and himself because he can’t get out of his own way, out of his own head and realize that the world doesn’t revolve around him nor around his feelings for Joe.

Right now he’s missing the forest for the trees and he needs to take a step back and honestly think about whether or not anything that he is doing right now is worth it or if he’s only screwing up his chances at getting back together with Joe. He might not know now that Joe 2.0 is his Joe, but when he finds out, he may just have to step back and think. Or he’ll risk losing Joe forever.

[starflungwaddledee]

from: @starflungwaddledee to: @post-it-notes7

message from santa: "happy holidays post-it-notes! 🎄🥳 i know you very politely only wished for a few modest things- characters high fiving, or struggling in christmas attire- but i hope you'll still enjoy this given that i kinda went the opposite direction entirely! i'm an enormous fan of your work and most times you post anything i wind up browsing your art tag from tip-to-tail in enraptured delight. as such, i thought it was only fair i give back something a little more significant in gratitude for all the joy your work has given me. i knew i wanted to do a comic, so i was thrilled you already had a whole storyverse for me to work from!! this scene seemed the most obvious choice (chapter 8 of "wishful thinking" on ao3) given that i enjoy a dramatic fight scene 😂 i tried to stick as beat-by-beat to the writing as i could and worked in as many details as possible; i hope it'll be fun to see it envisioned this way! merry christmas! ~starflung 🎀🔔 "

[hotasfahrenheit]

okay listen. obviously there's no preview the preview wasn't on iQiyi for the finale of My Stand In yet, and i wouldn't watch it even if there was because this one i want to go into blind, i've mostly been off tumblr today so i haven't seen any other speculation or discussion yet, and i mean obviously book readers know what's going on or what's probably going on but my untainted guess for how episode 11 ended is thus, and be warned of spoilers if you haven't watched yet:

i think that Joe needed to go through that door so he can meet Other Joe and they can have A Much Needed Conversation. i honestly expected him to be the person to speak to Joe in the hallway at the end, and was VERY surprised that it wasn't him. if we're going to get some kind of spiritual out of body stuff going on, it makes sense that Other Joe is someone he needs to see and speak to.

it felt weird that the monk came off as pushing Joe to let go, also- he knows how Ming feels about Joe all too well, and he knows how hard the two of them have fought to be together, so the fact that he was just like "do you wanna keep being miserable or do you wanna give up and walk away, the door is right there, you can just walk through it and let go" just felt.... off. but if his intent was to get Joe to walk through the door so he could talk to Other Joe, then it makes a lot more sense.

it's pretty obvious that on top of all the other struggles, Joe has been carrying a weight of responsibility for Other Joe's life, the most evident in the way he takes care of Ing- but i definitely think he genuinely loves Ing at this point, since she has been such a good mother to him and cared for him since he woke up. he and Ming discussed going to see her to explain things, but we didn't see that happen so i don't know if they actually did. it feels like too big of a plot point to gloss over, but we went straight from them talking about going to see her "that afternoon" to the stunt gym at night. i have no idea if that was a translation problem and they meant later in the day and were prevented from going by everything that happened, or if they actually just chose to leave that scene out.

the episode ending with Joe in a coma and potentially dieing again without having shown us any resolution- or honesty- with Ing feels wrong tho, so my guess is they didn't go see her yet, which means she has to deal with her son being in the hospital AGAIN.

and i think that Other Joe is too far gone, too long gone, to go back to life himself, but i think he's waiting for Joe on the other side of that door to turn him back around and send him back for both of them. Joe needs to remember why he wants to live- for love, for family, for himself, and i think talking to Other Joe, who gave up on those things specifically, is going to have to tell him that giving up on all of that isn't worth it. that he needs to take the opportunity for both of them to go back. to love Ming, and to be with his friends, and to take care of Ing. and Joe couldn't have that conversation if he didn't walk through that door, because Other Joe has been on the other side of it for too long.

we have had no kind of interaction with Other Joe at all, no flashbacks from people who knew him, no stories told by his mother to really give us an idea of who he was, just her saying he's different. we got nothing real from Tharn about their relationship, not even an apology for how it ended. nothing from anyone who knew him about him. i feel like it's time to let him speak, it's time for him to turn up and have a say in what's happening to his body. time for him to give Joe his benediction to live a full life, for him to tell Joe to do what he wasn't able to.

anyway yeah i think that's what's going on, so i'm not going to give up hope, and i'm not going to cry about this (too much) and i'm going to be tearing my hair out until next friday waiting for the final piece of this story.

[ankahikoibaat]

my two sentence pithy hopepunk post escaped containment - you never can predict what will! - and it was obviously never going to encompass the whole spectrum of story possibilities hopepunk obviously like, omg, people in the notes. but i reiterate!

Star Wars is hopepunk! not grimdark!

it doesn't mean there's not darkness or evil or bad in the stories or genre, but ultimately it's about the triumph of good or the possibility thereof!

personally, i find the focus on stories in the fascist government point of view loses that - and are honestly a drain - and I stand by that, but also, stop defining morally gray at me people! i do know the meaning even if i'm not writing out the damn definition!

also, morally gray does not automatically mean more interesting or more nuanced! (anyone saying that can fight me.) (i'm a wuss and too chronically ill for this so not really.)

choosing to be good, to do good in a world of increasing darkness and evil and selfishness is a fucking compelling story, and it can be handled with such complexity and delicacy if someone actually gives a shit and doesn't go "good vs evil is boring" automatically!

[syrena-del-mar]

Navigating the Conflict in My Stand In: Surrender and Softening in Love

(Disclaimer: Ming/Joe is an incredibly toxic relationship; I fully realize and acknowledge that, but Poom makes a critical distinction in Joe's reasoning, and I think it's interesting to dissect. Also, this is fiction.)

It's been some time since I've written any meta, but I can't stop thinking about the video @poomphuripan shared of Poom making the distinction that Joe isn't giving in to Ming, but rather, his heart is melting for him.

It makes so much sense that Joe would melt at the littlest semblance of 'love.' He was so alone for so long. His parents have been dead for longer than he had them, he has no siblings, and his extended relatives don't care about him. I forget if it's mentioned in the show, but in the novel, Joe had a pretty big crush on Sol, and Sol rejected him quite brutally. Even without meaning to be, Joe is always alone at the end of the day.

Yes, Joe has friends, and yes, Joe made his own found family. But at the end of the day, Joe would return to an unlit, empty home. Everyone else would return to their wives or families, while Joe could only return to the pictures of his parents. Meanwhile, for all of Ming's bs and frightening behavior, he was the only one that made his dream come true.

For the first time, with Ming around, Joe would come home and be greeted by the warmth of another living, breathing person. Joe craved to have a human bond, and Ming was the one who was willing (albeit for his own interest) to give it to him. And he cooked for him. He took up space in his home! He remembered the very things Joe had told him he longed for. They had a lot of good times, a lot of good memories, and a pretty set routine that really integrated Ming into Joe's life. But then they fight, his blissful reality breaks, and Joe dies.

But Joe wakes up from what feels like a day's nap when, in actuality, two years have passed. And what does he find? Ming has cared for his apartment since his death and is unwilling to change anything just in case Joe returns. Ming continues to fulfill Joe's dream of returning to a warm home. So he turns on the lights, and he cooks the same dinner that they used to share for two years. And even in his rightful anger of wanting Ming to leave him alone, he's still seeing that. In the two years since his disappearance, someone still thought about him and hadn't fully grieved him. Ming's brother only confirms that.

Giving in would mean that Joe wanted to end the fight with Ming, when no feelings had changed. It'd be him emotionally surrendering himself, compromising his feelings of being just a double for Tong, and fully conceding himself when he still thought that Ming only saw him as a replacement. While Joe might have given Ming access to his body to pay his new mom's debts, he was still blocking Ming out as much as he could. But that's not why Joe forgives Ming; it's not for a superficial reason to stop the feud. There's a visible shift in how he perceives Ming, the guy who waited two years for him, who protected and filled his home with warmth, just in case he wasn't really gone. His motivation was rooted in the slivers of positive feelings he had for Ming, which allowed him to move past the anger that he held for him.

A quote that I've seen floating around the internet for years comes to mind. "And when nobody wakes you up in the morning and when nobody waits for you at night and when you do whatever you want. What do you call it? Freedom or loneliness?" Joe has had that freedom for the majority of his whole life. It's no longer freedom for him. But even his found family isn't fully aware of the loneliness that would wash over him when he would return to an empty home.

After all is said and done, he sees that only one person knows him intimately enough to understand and learn even the most mundane of his desires. Ming, even with all the toxic shit he has pulled, stood by his word of not letting Joe return to an empty home. For Joe, that was enough. It changes how he sees and understands Ming.

It's also why Sol and Joe would have never worked out.

As Poom said, ultimately, it's not that he gives in to Ming but rather he lets his heart melt when he sees exactly what Ming has done for him in his absence.

Even after everything, Joe still loves him.

[meteortrails]

law and luffy are just like. what if I saw you at the peak of your miracle working competence, and then the literal next time I saw you it was at your most isolated and broken. and what if that moment of seeing you alone and grieving and terrified was the moment where I decided you were someone worth keeping, someone who I personally cared about and wanted around. how does that not make you wanna lose your fucking mind.

and then the other thing on top of that which always gets me is the way that you can just so clearly see that neither of them has any idea how to fit this relationship into any preexisting context - Luffy calls him part of his crew, but law is the captain of his own crew and would clearly die before giving that up; law calls them allies but it is glaringly obvious that they care about each other in a way that goes beyond that. of course Luffy is generally a lot less bothered about this than law, who routinely wants to put his own head through a wall about it, but it’s just such a fun layer to their dynamic I think.

[starry-bi-sky]

tales of the passerine - danny fenton being bruce wayne's first kid

okay okay. so this is like a continuation/elaboration of my oneshot/prompt i wrote about the idea that Danny was the first batkid. We have a lot of aus where he joins the family after the rest of the bats do, right? So hey! Lets shake things up a bit. Danny is the first to be adopted by Bruce Wayne.

Danny's parents and unfortunately Jazz die shortly after the events of TUE -- how so? I was gonna say an ecto-filter explosion, that would call back to the TUE explosion and trauma behind that. But lets do something new! Carbon-monoxide poisoning.

It's not too unexpected for something to break in the Fenton house, especially with the Fenton parents' questionable understanding of proper weapon handling and lab safety. The water heater broke from a stray shot by one of the weapons, and was promptly MacGyver'd incorrectly. Danny went to stay with Tucker for a guys' night, and came back to a dead silent house.

(Danny's neighbors got a very unfortunate shock when he ran to the next house over in hysterics.)

There was a lot of shuffling around with CPS, the police. People had to be called in to handle the equipment in the lab, and the GIW was rumoring to show up in aid to clearing the scene. When Danny heard of that, he immediately went and dismantled the ghost portal to the best of his abilities. He burned the physical blueprints of all his parents' inventions, their blueprints on the ghost portal, and their most dangerous weapons were destroyed beyond recognition. Anything to prevent the GIW from getting their hands on his parents' tech.

It opened up another investigation, but he was not under the list of suspects. He was placed in the care of Vlad Masters, where they then went back to the rebuilt castle mansion in Wisconsin. Danny, terrified of the future that has once passed and may do so again, shuts down in his grief. Inadvertently, he ends up somewhat repressing his ghost half. Something Vlad, who is grieving Madeline but relishing in Jack's demise and his custody of Daniel, is not very happy with.

Vlad's... gone into a bit of a mental health spiral. He's becoming increasingly possessive over Daniel, the final remnants of his friends and a liminal being like him. He doesn't like that Danny's repressing his ghost half -- both out of genuine concern as a ghost, but also because of his desire to control Danny and groom him into the perfect son. If you ever had a phase where you read Dark SBI found family fics, first off; me too bro, and second off; those are the vibes I'm thinking of.

Danny's mentally shut down from grief! And fear. He's dropped into a bad depressive state -- paralyzed with grief and the terror of the inevitable. Clockwork saved his parents because he believes in second chances, but what's the point of that when his family ended up dead anyways? Danny doesn't wanna believe that he's destined to become evil, and he's holding out onto that hope, but it's a thin line, and he feels utterly hopeless and trapped. He hasn't used his powers or ghost form since he trashed the lab, and Vlad has alarms set up to prevent him from trying to escape.

He's also unintentionally cut off Sam and Tucker -- both of whom are so scared and concerned for Danny too, and are trying their damndest to reach out to him. He keeps ignoring their texts. Danny basically haunts Vlad's manor. He goes out to eat if he has to, attends parties Vlad drags him to, and stays in his room all day if he can.

At parties, Vlad doesn't allow Danny to leave his side, or really talk to anyone -- not that Danny wants to. A product of Vlad's increasing possessiveness. Well, he almost doesn't let Danny leave his side. Danny has a habit of slipping off to hide somewhere for the parties whenever he can, and Vlad reluctantly allows it so long as he stays alone.

This becomes an advantage when eventually, Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham after missing for years, and holds a bright charity ball to celebrate the return. Vlad has been chomping at the bits to get his hands on Wayne Industries, and with the return of its owner there is no better opportunity to wipe out his rival. He goes, and he as normal, brings Daniel with him.

Vlad thinks Wayne will bleed his little heart out for Daniel's poor orphan sob story -- he's a fellow orphan himself, after all. He's not wrong; Wayne's little heart will bleed, just not in the way that benefits him.

Bruce sees Vlad and Danny approaching before they're even close enough to introduce themselves - and like with many of the children he will soon come to care for, it's like someone set a mirror into the past right in front of him.

Danny Fenton's suit is tailor-made for him, and despite the fact that it's his perfect size, the sag in his shoulders, the ducked down head, and the way he hunches into himself all pictures the image of a child in shoes too big for him. There's a far away, glazed over look in his eyes and grief marble-cut into the lines of his face. There's not enough makeup in the world that will hide the dark circles under his eyes.

("My nephew, Daniel Fenton." Vlad's hands are possessive on Danny's shoulders. Bruce immediately notices the way the boy tenses under his touch. "His parents passed recently, and as his godfather I was designated his guardian.") ("I'm so sorry, the loss must've been terrible.") ("Yes, carbon-monoxide poisoning caused it. Daniel was out with friends, when he came home... they had already passed.") (Bruce immediately dislikes that Vlad shared the details of their death unprompted -- he likes it even less when Danny flinches at the reminder and hunches into himself.)

Danny runs off at some point earlier into the charity. At this point, parties are still being held at Wayne Manor (because iirc google search mentioned that was a thing at first before it was changed), so he disappears and hides in one of the empty rooms nearby. It just so happens to be the same room Bruce Wayne hides in when he needs a break from all of the socialization.

Thus begins a long, long process of trust. Bruce can't reveal his hand as being smarter than he looks, but he can be compassionate. Kindness needs no measure of intelligence. He keeps Danny company for as long as he can before he runs the risk of being found.

Rinse and repeat. Vlad insistently wants Wayne Industries, and he'll go to as many Wayne parties as he can to get his hooks into the man. The problem is that Bruce Wayne is never alone, and getting him alone is impossible. Finding him too. It's like the man never stops moving. Always talking to someone, always circling somewhere. He orbits around the room as if he isn't the sun of the Gotham Elite's solar system.

Danny's had such repetitive behavior that Vlad never thinks to believe that Bruce Wayne is disappearing to go talk to him. That "Vlad's" son is even interacting with him at all. Danny never gives him a reason to think so, and neither does Bruce.

Danny doesn't actually acknowledge Bruce until a handful of parties in, where he hands Bruce a small slip of paper he smuggled in that says; "don't trust Vlad". Danny's face stays carefully blank, but he's so tense that his hands are trembling, and he's purposely looking away from him. Bruce plasters a smile onto his face, slips the paper into his pocket, and tells him "okay".

(he's been busy with his own goals with the mafia, but he sets aside time to investigate Vlad Masters. He was holding off. Until now.)

Danny does eventually start speaking to Bruce, he's starting to really like the guy. He's starting to see a little hope, even as Vlad is starting to get more and more agitated with him the more he refuses to use his powers.

He reaches out to Sam and Tucker again, and starts trying to reconnect with them. Vlad has spyware on his phone, and he limits the amount of times he can talk to them. A weird parental control lock of some sort that leaves a time limit on how long he can talk to them for. 30 minutes. Danny doesn't tell them anything about Mr. Wayne.

Danny, slowly, wants out of here, and he's slowly gathering the motivation to do it. Vlad is genuinely scaring him -- and Danny wonders just how truthful the past-future Vlad was when he told him that Danny wanted his ghost half separate. He starts trying to come up with an escape plan.

Vlad has anti-ghost wards everywhere around the mansion, and while they're always on, they boost to full power at sunset. The doors and windows are always locked, all main exits have alarms set on them. The only reason it's not super extensive is because Danny hasn't tried leaving at all yet, so Vlad hasn't had to tighten anything.

At night, Vlad locks the door to his room and puts up an anti-ghost ward around the room. The mansion is on the outside westward side of Madison, more entrenched in rural Wisconsin. The closest town is a four-way stop sign with one house on three corners, and an open bar on the fourth. Not much to go.

He refuses to go to Sam and Tucker; Vlad would look there first. It's too dangerous. Vlad would sound alarm bells and have a manhunt looking for him, Danny can't risk going just anywhere. Too much risk of being found, sold out, or caught. There's really nowhere for him to hide.

Until there is. Bruce is telling Danny about the history of Wayne Manor, and says, as casually as saying the weather; "The manor has dozens of empty rooms, I'm sure Alfred wouldn't mind filling another one if he could." And quietly, hesitantly, Bruce places a careful hand on Danny's shoulder, unrestrictive and gentle; "He wouldn't mind getting one ready for you if you need one."

And there it is. There's his out.

Danny, just as quietly, replies; "I'll keep that in mind."

The ball starts rolling.

Now I've been trying to summarize this au as much as possible for length convenience, but Vlad has been steadily growing more and more controlling. More emotionally manipulative. More agitated at Danny for not using his powers.

He wants Wayne Industries under his thumb but he's been steadily growing more and more concerned with Danny. He's started grabbing him, yanking him around, shaking him; trying to goad him into using his powers. He gets angry when Danny doesn't react, or tells him he doesn't want to use his powers. He hasn't outright attacked him, but he's getting there. This has been happening over the time it takes for Bruce to indirectly offer Danny sanctuary at his home.

It all comes to a head when Vlad stops going to parties at all -- something Danny has to pretend he isn't upset about -- because Vlad doesn't want him around other people anymore. Vlad rarely goes now without him, and only leaves to go to a Wayne function or to handle something at VladCo.

Danny can't wait for Vlad to leave long enough to escape. So he leaves during the night of a big storm. Vlad's locked him in his room, but Danny doesn't bother trying to go for it; he goes to the alarmed window instead. Danny's been repressing his ghost half so long that he can't access his powers immediately anymore -- he can feel it, he knows its there, but he can't quite reach it.

He breaks the lock by hand.

Immediately the alarm goes off through the entire castle, filling the room with red, and he scrambles for the rope the Wisconsin Ghost left for him a few months back. Danny's already out and climbing down the side of the castle before Vlad even reaches his door -- the only good thing about the entire room being ghost-proof is that Vlad can't get in that way.

The rope ends before it reaches the bottom, and he's still twenty feet in the air. It won't kill him if he lands it right. Danny takes his chances, and drops. He breaks his ankle, but he survives.

And he fucking books it to the back garden. He hears Vlad shrieking over the thunder and rain.

I'll save the full experience for a future oneshot, but Danny makes it out into the nearby woods and forcibly experiences what it's like to be in a horror game, trying to hide from the thing that's hunting you. There's only one thing going through his mind; "i'm going to die"

I have this mental image for this scene. Very stereotypical horror imo. Where Danny is hiding behind a tree, with a hand over his mouth, and Vlad is a few feet away from him, glowing ominously red through the trees, trying to search for him.

Danny doesn't get away from this unscathed, but he does get away alive. That's all he could ask for. He gets away by getting his ghost half awakened long enough to transform into Phantom and fly to Gotham.

But he gets to Wayne Manor, he gets to Bruce. Or, at least, Alfred answers the door from his insistent pounding. Danny's just in tears and Alfred gets him in the living room, wrapped in a towel, with ice on his swollen leg before he has to step out and alert Bruce.

Bruce already breaks multiple traffic laws on a nightly basis. And that's just with the sheer existence of the batmobile itself, not including the speeding and military artillery attached. He breaks double the amount trying to speed back to the cave and get out of the suit.

Right off the bat: Bruce will know, at least before Dick enters the picture, about danny's powers. He'll figure out something considering the fact that Danny traveled from Wisconsin to New York in a single night. That'll be a bit of complicated affair, but I've already got something in mind.

Actually it'll probably be very soon after Danny joins the family, because Bruce tries to offer to fight for custody for Danny - the state Danny was in at arrival is clear enough evidence for a trial. But Danny immediately shuts it down, says it's not going to work and then Vlad will know Danny's with him and he won't be safe. He tells him that Vlad cannot know Danny was with Bruce.

Danny's biggest regret was not telling his parents he was a halfa, and while he doesn't want to tell mister wayne (yet), he does tell him about Vlad being one. He needs to know why Danny can't be seen with Bruce. So he tells him, and Danny's current plan is to just hide out from Vlad until he turns 18. That way, he has no more legal jurisdiction over him. After that? He's not sure.

And to wrap this up, since this has already gotten very long and I can make more posts about this au later; I've thought about it, and I'm going to say that Danny does become a vigilante before Dick enters the scene. He goes by, as you probably guessed; Nightingale. "Gale" for short.