#the ralsei susie noelle friendship dynamics....

[acaciapines]

me out here like so i know ive written a lot of deltarune fic and my big project now is the owl house daemon au but what if i write MORE deltarune fic instead <3

fkgndfjg recently ive been thinking about an au where kris left with dess and thus its noelle and susie who fall into the dark worlds (similar to the ending of my fic either (first, last) where dess is human except idk if id keep that part of things) and im like. n. no. you cant do that. youd end up Writing Deltarune. do you know how long that would take. so fucking long.

but im like. but noelle in kris’s role....how the prophecy is still ‘a human, a monster, and a prince from the dark’ except the human died? vanished? before it could ever be fulfilled. how if i make it so kris and dess are still alive that means they could come BACK and we get to see a kris raised by dess. how this means asriel wouldve never left for college (since the dreemurrs think kris and dess are dead and if kris Died because of dess azzy 100% blames himself and isnt about to leave his mom and dad) and i get to explore his relationship with noelle as the two left behind. how ralsei is still kris’s headband here but there is no kris, so where does that leave ralsei?

BASICALLY SOMEONE STOP ME I KEEP GETTING MORE IDEAS. i havent even posted the bad end au yet and im like ok but what if MORE.

[lupucs]

Gosh I love your art!

But uh whats your favorite deltarune ships?

Thank you so much!! Oh gosh, you really caught me off guard with this one hah!

Well, uh I think it should be pretty obvious which ships I like by now...

It's clearly-

It-

It's obviously...

THOSE GUYS!

[infizero-draws]

girl what do you feel about kris' and noelle's relationship in snowgrave i want to know

OK OK. first of all thank you for specifying "in snowgrave" because if you just said their relationship in general i would literally never stop talking.

second tho, im really bad at putting how i feel about character dynamics into words because often there's just soooooo much to be said and different ways of looking at it and i get overwhelmed if i try to make some all-encompassing analysis. so let it be known that whatever i say here is not the full picture and there's so much more i could say.

putting this under the cut because i already know im gonna talk for way too long:

that being said oughghghhgh. where to fucking begin. i'd say the most fascinating (and disturbing) thing about their relationship in snowgrave is the weird romantic undertones. the fact that you have to pressure noelle into the idea of riding the ferris wheel with KRIS instead of with susie, her actual crush.

one of the most overt symbols of this weirdness is definitely the thorn ring. i know it isnt the only ring you give to noelle to equip, but this is the one that's mandatory for the snowgrave route. in order to do the route, you have to make KRIS give NOELLE a RING. a ring that literally HURTS HER TO WEAR. if that isnt a metaphor for a forced relationship i dont know what is

however perhaps the most damning and obvious one is of course this option:

i would say something about this myself but @/sorrybutiforgothowtomakecontent's tags on another one of my posts really summed it up:

im also aromantic so this really resonated with me. but yeah just going back to the first point they make. you literally HAVE to say "we're something else" in order to do the snowgrave route, which seems to make it pretty clear that this kinda subtext was intended. snowgrave can only exist with kris and noelle being "something else" because that's literally what snowgrave IS.

my favorite way to view snowgrave is through the lens of an arranged/forced marriage. again, the ring. it just feels so gross, especially because it's not just a regular marriage but an abusive marriage. snowgrave is abuser simulator (2021). im sure i dont need to explain that part

but the thing is, SNOWGRAVE IS NOT JUST ABOUT NOELLE and that's what makes it SO BAD. not only is noelle being forced to go through all of this, but KRIS is being forced to be the one who does it to her! kris clearly is EXTREMELY upset about snowgrave judging from the constant opportunities to choose more "normal" dialogue and abort the route, and from afterwards when they meet back up with ralsei and susie:

kris, under no circumstances, wants to do ANY of this. but they literally do not have a choice. snowgrave isnt kris manipulating noelle, it is US forcing kris into manipulating noelle. no one is winning here. they're both traumatized, and kris physically cannot even talk to their friends about it or show the true extent of their hurt. it SUCKSSSSS

and when you consider the idea that kris and noelle's friendship may have become strained specifically due to dess' disappearance, and kris possibly having something to do with that with the bunker and whatnot..... well now you're just forcing kris to hurt their friend AGAIN, when in the normal route this could've been their chance to finally reconnect. ahghrhgrhghh

going back to the marriage stuff, it's just so uncomfortable to see these two forced together like this. noelle is in love with susie. we dont know kris well enough to know if they have a crush on anyone (or if they get those kinds of feelings at all), but that doesn't matter. the fact is these two are likely not romantically interested in each other at all, and they are being forced together BY THE PLAYER. and it's horrific. (and even if one or both of them felt that way, this is still entirely wrong. they do not get a choice here)

@/hellspawnmotel's tags on this comic of hers will always haunt me, bcuz like. yeah. this is it:

there's also the fact that kris is naturally kind of a goofball; they're a prankster, especially it seems when it comes to noelle, as can be seen with the stepping off the button thing or the many, many examples from their shared childhood brought up by noelle.

but in the snowgrave route, kris drops this entirely. all of the alternate dialogue options to abort the route, which are very likely FROM kris, are very genuine and apologetic. kris is scared they're going to lose their friendship with noelle completely because of what you're making them do, and it's like they panic and all of their usual goofiness and sass is just dropped for genuine emotion. it's really sad to see honestly, esp in a full snowgrave route where you know that their efforts will be in vain.

OH OH ALSO. can't believe i haven't mentioned this yet. the fact that NOELLE KNOWS SOMETHING IS GOING ON WITH KRIS. THAT'S one of the things that really makes me insane.

noelle goes through ALL THAT, seemingly AT THE HANDS OF HER FRIEND....... and yet. she knows that something is wrong. she KNOWS kris, and she knows that they don't act like this. you'd think she would instantly cast kris off, it would be the right thing to do, but she doesn't. because she knows that something is off.

i cannot stress enough the fact that noelle is the ONLY one who seems to have noticed just how strange kris has been acting. sure other characters comment on kris seeming off or doing something they usually wouldn't do, but it is NOELLE and NOELLE ALONE who takes such notice of it and decides to actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

"i have to figure it out" is a mission statement, it implies that noelle (at least in the snowgrave route), is going to actively try to figure out what's going on with kris, WHICH IS CRAZYY and i feel like not enough people are talking about. not even kris's own mother has fully realized something's wrong. like she says, noelle seems to be the only one who's noticed just how off kris has been acting, and the only one who might try to understand and help them. genuinely makes me insane thinking of where that might go in this route oaugurhghh

im gonna stop here because im exhausting myself but. in conclusion I LOVE CHILDHOOD FRIENDS GONE WRONG!!!!!!!!! FAVORITE TROPE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!! anyways read this comic (all 3 parts) and you'll get it

oh also "kris, why are you wearing my watch?" still makes me go fucking insane

[so-sleep]

bestie drop the Kris & Ralsei relationship rant and why there's less fandom reception for them because of archetypes. the ppl want to know.

its. ugh

im not tidying it up, ill be putting it off forever (haha krals quest reference. VIBE CHECK)

so, deltarune community, i introduce to you, a half-assed 3AM rant about kris and ralsei.

transcription below, sidebar screenshots, tldr and everything. uh, i recommend reading the post

while i still cannot pass out i figured out what bothers me about the way theyre presented and why platonic kralsei is such a craving that has no material in the fandom to work with whatsoever

we know the susie relationships. everyone cherishes kris and susies friendship. id say it comes first if anything. people vaguely appreciate her and ralsei as well - we had plenty of hangout opportunities for the two, there are even two or three comics about ralsei and his beef with her. friendship content. dynamic exploring

kris and ralsei presentation however includes but is not limited to: dry interaction (choose your flavour: kris/kris as player projection aka the thing everyone did with ch1 ralsei cutesy content), dry interaction 2.0 aka The Sillies/ralsei as sole background commenter in goofyass situations/the normal dude (may or may not include in-game shit), kris' resentment of ralsei (at least theyre getting creative), and finally mushy romantic couple shit and sugarcoating tropes

vc: and you could excuse that with a "oh, well but we dont know anything about ralseis backstory" yet we hardly know anything about susies either. we only theorise of her past related to adoption, being homeless, insert other determinators based material. we factually know very little of her, yet susie has established friendships with both kris and ralsei, even well-written fan content with noelle that is not limited by surface romance but rather the exploration of their dynamic, friends first, partners - second.

as in for either of them being morally gray? susie has no problems with that and i love her, we love her, the_newest_girl sweepstakes log hasnt changed anything. i do have a theory on how that could affect ralsei, though. might contemplate on that.

so susie has all that. kris, their nature still unknown to most, but overall sympathetic with a shade of gray morality (HEEEELLL YEAAA) has the similar spectrum. kris has all that.

with them and ralsei though? its like. not a single plate of them as a dynamic. as actual friends

and honestly its no wonder kralsei is getting rejected from lightner ship/old darkner ship communities

we present no base. no fundamental understanding or interpretation of them

...though i wish id browse through deltarune tag more legitimately and take samples every time i see kris and ralsei on-screen to have a list of categories for each interaction to sort them like legos by shapes and colours.

there was one.ONE comic of them that kept the hopes up. this is why kralsei is stayin alive. that, and tunas scarf thingy. our icon (shhhh hes seepy)

i, uh, dont have a conclusion. i remember writing it because i wish we actually came up with who they are. wish that even they had conflicts and resolutions, similarities and differences, like any other dynamic in the fanon, having multiple headcanons and interpretations.

i just wish we gave them a chance to be friends.

[thepowerofluffyboyshineswithinu]

ralsei, kris, and susie's friendship is so important to me holy shitttt like all three of them have such good dynamics between each other in different ways and then !! noelle and birdley add an even better layer they are my family my life my love my everything

[lancerious]

I know your not big on shipping, so I wanted to ask,

What are your favorite strictly platonic relationships in UTDR?(besides Lancer and Susie obvs)

Ooooh, this is an interesting question! I haven't thought too much about it, but there are some platonic relationships I do like. These aren't in any particular order :P.

First is Susie and Kris! I really like seeing Kris and Susie slowly bond together over time. At the beginning of the game, Susie bullied Kris to no end, but they're honestly legitimate friends by now, and I'm sure their friendship will only increase the more the game progresses.

Next is a bit of a controversial one, but I really do like the relationship between Kris and Spamton. Sure, Spamton tries to kill Kris and their friends by the end, but for some time, Spamton was a silly little man. Did Spamton have malevolent intentions? Yes. But Spamton doesn't try to outright harm Kris until he turns into NEO, at least from what I remember. For a while, Kris is just interacting with a desperate and corrupted salesman.

Another platonic relationship I like is Noelle and Berdly, and by extension Noelle and Kris. Noelle is honestly a character who gets along with everybody, and I really respect that. Berdly seems like the type who doesn't have many friends, so being buddies with a kind and patient person like Noelle is definitely positive. And Noelle and Kris have known each other for quite some time! They used to hang out a lot from what we know. Some more background on their friendship would be cool to see!

This next relationship isn't really positive lol, but I LOVE how Swatch and Rouxls Kaard get along, or should I say DON'T get along. Most of it is due to Rouxls Kaard's arrogance and silly nature. I don't think we've seen those two characters interact directly--again, at least from what I remember--but boy, I would REALLY like to see that.

Another controversial platonic relationship is Jevil and Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. Jevil was definitely dangerous and certainly could have killed those three--I for one had to spend hours to get through his boss fight--but I don't really believe it was of purely malevolent intent. I think Jevil was trying to show them the truth, was trying to help them be free. Jevil had long since been insane, and his perception of right and wrong was twisted. And in the end, if you battle him the right way, he warns you about Queen before any other character. Nice!

Sticking with Jevil, I REALLY like his backstory with Seam. I can't say for certain if Jevil and Seam were legitimately IN a relationship--hello, Seavil fans--but for the sake of this post, I'm going to assume they were just friends. Close friends maybe, but friends. The pain of having to lock Jevil away must have been soul-crushing for Seam. Those two worked together, and knew each other really well. It's a shame their friendship had to end in such a somber way.

Rouxls Kaard. Rouxls Kaard and literally everyone. No, I will not elaborate.

This is more of a "hoping they become buddies later on" platonic relationship, but man, I really like the dynamic of Spade King and Susie. I really think Spade King is similar to Susie personality-wise, and they could genuinely get along if not for the current...issues put in place (Spade King despises Lightners, Susie despises Spade King, etc). But even now, seeing those two go back and forth is still refreshing with every playthrough.

This is definitely another controversial one: I really enjoy the dynamic amongst Spade King and his citizens in Chapter 1. The Darkner citizens fear Spade King to no end, and most are forced to attack your party. Well, all of them are forced, but not every Darkner outright attacks you. We even see a Rudinn who refused to fight get imprisoned later that same chapter. It's super sad, but incredibly interesting at the same time.

And for the final few platonic relationships, we have the one and only Lancer! I won't mention Lancer and Susie again, but I will mention other platonic relationships.

Since I've already mentioned this before in my Lancer document, I'll simply state it here: Lancer and the Darkner citizens in Chapter 1 has got to be one of the saddest dynamics ever. It's even making me sad thinking about it :(.

Lancer and Kris/Ralsei. Lancer may like Susie the most, but he gets along with Kris and Ralsei too! Both Kris and Ralsei do their best to treat Lancer well and be as kind and friendly to him as possible, and I really like that. Lancer deserves those three, for sure.

Lancer and Queen! What interests me most about this particular one is the fact that Queen...doesn't really know how to be a parent. Queen's a computer, while Lancer's not. They're both very different characters. It'll be interesting to see how they get along as the game progresses!

Okay, I know I already mentioned Rouxls Kaard, but I need to mention this specific relationship. Rouxls Kaard may be the king of goofing up, sure, but he does legitimately try to be a good father to Lancer. He might complain about Lancer from time to time, but he does care and wants to do his best. Part of it may be because of Spade King looming behind the scenes, but honestly, I think that's a minor reason. Rouxls Kaard seems to be a character with a lot of heart, even if he messes up a lot.

And finally, last but certainly not least, Lancer and Spade King. What can I say about this father/son relationship that I haven't said already? Spade King may be a...questionable parent, at least from what we know, but he does care about Lancer. He wants what is best for his son, even if his methods for showing it are highly controversial. And seeing Lancer care for his dad after everything he's done is so heart-warming. I really want these two to establish a proper, genuine, healthy father/son relationship by the time the game ends.

Well, that's everyone I can think of! This list ended up being longer than intended lol. I guess I had a lot to say.

Thanks for the question! I enjoyed answering it :)!

[stainedglassthreads]

ralsei-NO WAIT, SUZIE!!!!

I’m just taking this as an excuse to do both, so!

Susie

Favorite thing about them: She’s so soft and emotional and genuine under her scary exterior. She cares for her friends so much. She doesn’t really understand how Darkners turn into items but she’s sad when Lancer isn’t around and so so happy when he does reappear. And how ecstatic she is to show off her healing magic, or how she takes the time to get Kris smiling after the Spamton fight. I am very soft for characters like her, who care so much more than you’d expect.

Least favorite thing about them: I hope her not realizing Darkners turn into items is going somewhere. She’s not a smart kid, but that just seems. A bit oddly dumb of her? So I kinda hope there’s a reason she can’t figure it out and it’s not just a running gag.

Favorite line: Probably when Lancer says he wants to be like her and she just goes ‘You want to be… like me?’ It’s the beginning of a beautiful friendship and her character development, but also shows some vulnerability, because so far, we’ve gotten the impression NO ONE likes or looks up to Susie. Susie confronting Snowdrake and MK outside the bunker was also great. And in terms of comedy nothing tops ‘What would Kris do…? (Eat moss/point and hearts come out)

She’s just a goldmine of great quotes okay.

brOTP: Is it not obvious? Susie and Lancer.

OTP: I think think Krusielle (Kris, Susie, and Noelle) is an underrated dynamic. I want all three to be weird together.

nOTP: Uh, don’t really have one? Not one I have very strong feelings about, anyways.

Random Headcanon: In the fancomic Paper Trail, Susie was always hungry and eating weird stuff because no one ever bothered telling her she was a carnivorous species of monster, and she recounted a memory where she got so hungry she broke down and ate the class pet in kindergarten and felt so guilty, and there was a scene where Noelle told her and told her about services she can use to get the food she needs even if she’s poor and Susie just broke down going ‘this is… normal? I’m not a monster?’ Technically not mine but I loved that concept.

I also like the theory Susie grew up in a human community, or even knew Kris in that community before the Dreemurrs adopted them.

Unpopular Opinion: Uuuh… none really.

Song I associate with them: I think she’d sing along really loudly to Godzilla by Blue Oyster Cult.

Favorite Picture of them: Don’t got one.

Ralsei

Favorite thing about them: How thoughtful he is! He makes rooms for Kris and Susie with more care than Queen does, he tells Kris(us) that we don’t need to explore all Castletown bow we can take a break, he banishes Kris and Susie until they do their homework… he’s not perfect at it. But I genuinely don’t think he’ll pull a Toriel and try to trap Kris snd Susie in Castletown. He wants to provide them with a place to escape, but not at the cost of their lives and relationships in the Dark World.

Least favorite thing about them: When is a Lightner going to comment on his similarity to Asriel? When are we going to address the elephant in the room? When?

Favorite line: When he remarks how wonderful that Susie is herself, and wonders what being Ralsei-like even is.

brOTP: Uh. Don’t really have one I feel strongly about yet.

OTP: Same. I only really enjoy a ship if I enjoy the dynamic of the relationship, and Ralsei is so passive with everyone that he just… isn’t even noticed by a lot of people. Makes it a little hard for me to get invested in any ships with him as of now. Maybe that’ll change in the future?

nOTP: Again, no strong feelings here. I guess I don’t love Kralsei, because his devotion to Kris in canon can easily turn into that thing I hate where a character has no personality beyond loving and supporting another, but I don’t have any particular vitriol for the ship. I think I’d prefer to see him figure out what being ‘Ralsei-like’ means before he gets into a relationship, especially with Kris. But I don’t think I hate it enough to call it a nOTP, per se, it’s just not what I really want to see from the character.

Random headcanon: I like my weird baseless speculation that Chara made him based off of their idealized vision of Asriel, just like how Flowey was projecting his idealized vision of Chara onto Frisk.

Unpopular opinion: There is a huge spectrum between ‘sweet little cinnamon roll’ and ‘evil mastermind, satan incarnate,’ you guys… and several mysteries surrounding him become kinda obvious if you just think a little bit.

Song I associate with them: Canary in a Coal Mine by the Crane Wives feels applicable.

Favorite picture of them: Still don’t really have one.

[ariadnesweb]

Erm miscellaneous Deltarune Shipping thoughts

Suselle - decent ship strangled by the red string. Suffers from the common kids shows 'so telegraphed its hard to see regular scenes between the two without seeing the big sign saying 'THESE TWO WILL BE TOGETHER'. Very frustrating, but also kind of its appeal. It's a 'safe' ship, with a confirmed get-together. Kind of a shame, I think it's underrated as a dynamic. A Princess and a Dragon are stuck in the tower waiting for a prince to arrive and set back the status quo, except the Dragon isn't really a mean bad guy, and the princess isn't really a helpless maiden. Would love to see Susie and Noelle have all their preconceptions about themselves be knocked down as they date each other. 7/10 I think they'd be sweet together, even if I struggle seeing them staying together post-game.

Kralsei - It's problematic. It doesn't take a lot of thought as to understand WHY it's problematic. Ralsei is somehow a derivative of Kris's brother, and that's uncomfy even if there is no formal sibling relationship.

Kris also does this, unprompted,

so I think the Kralsei shippers are still winning. 8/10 ship, constantly teased by canon, and a core relationship dynamic of the cast. Bounces between cute, rottingly sweet, and very uncomfortable. Hilarious in a morbid way.

Kriselle - Ship voted most likely to get sunk by either of the two calling each other 'siblings'. Is in some way related to Charasriel. Toby Fox probably has something against childhood friend romances. I genuinely think it's disrespectful to place Kris and Noelle romantically when they have an important friendship going on.

Unfortunately I'm a sucker for these two being sweet with each other, so 8/10 ship, I enjoy most art having these two around.

Ralsusie - Ship wins award for the currently most developed relationship in Deltarune. Have actually dated each other, Noelle called what she saw. Very enjoyable interactions whenever the two are onscreen. I can completely understand WHY anyone would ship these two, its a good relationship between a guy and girl.

I just... personally don't like thinking of these two as romantic. It's pretty much just a personal thing, I headcanon Susie as an Ace (Bisexual) and Ralsei as a repulsed AroAce (he doesn't know it yet.). 5/10 I don't get any enjoyment from it, but it's a good ship.

Krusie - I already wrote a bit for this ship, but since it's been a while since then, I still stand by what I say: No one but me gets them. This is a highly pretentious statement from me, and I don't think there's anything wrong with other Krusie shippers, I'm just not a fan of most Krusie content. Most people jump on the best-friend aspect and go from there into romance. I like this pairing best when it's a slowburn of two people with very different background slowly learning to communicate. Or as a background thing in which the pair act as one dumbass due to their similar thought processes being highly energized at finding a like-minded kin. Those two guys who are life partners in business and all that. 6/10. Enjoyable but I'm picky.

Krerdly - Not my thing, 5/10, there's probably valid criticism pointed at its surge in popularity as a way to deflect heteronormative Krusie & Kriselle shippers, but it's always awkward to punch down on a crackship. Basically lives and dies on the fervor of its shippers, and because it's mostly personal fan desire, I'd be hard-pressed to criticize it, you're all having fun. Um, if any Krerdly shippers find this post, don't take the criticism to close to heart? Pretty much depends on people's tolerances for rarepairs.

Asgorudy - I think Rudy should live if only to make this ship canon. 9/10, fun dynamic, but more importantly, encourages the Dreemurr-Holiday Divorce Saga - Now With Marriage?. Makes me endlessly curious to hear the Mayor's side of this story.

Seavil - Generally intriguing. Also a great way to characterize Seam and Jevil. I think the general quality of this ship depends solely on whether the creator understands Jevil. The more a creator understands that Jevil is a weird uncle with a penchant for breaking reality, the better the Seavil is. 9/10, if untainted by chapter 1 chaos gremlin Jevil flanderization.

Spamvil - Great fandom content VS 'I don't think these two are compatible in canon' FIGHT. This ship is boosted by the general quality and quantity of fan content, running with the implications of the sanity-breaking truth that broke these two old men. 8/10, I just think not all important relationships should be romances.

Krusielle - The main characters needed for a fluffy slice of life taking place in Hometown. Not my cup of tea. All the characters like each other, are nice, and are stable enough to live together. This is a bonus.

Persobally though, I'm more invested in the three duos that make up this ot3 (Krusie, Kriselle, and Suselle), to ship it. It doesn't help that Kriselle and Suselle are likely to leave the a member 3rd wheeling: Suselle is an explicitly romantic pairing, which has implications of exclusivity, and Kriselle is a strong relationship based on nostalgia, which would not include Susie (as of now).

[kiribaku]

Expanding on darkworld catti I think it's also quite a funny concept because I don't see this mentioned much anywhere (I don't think I ever have) but Susie refuses to go into QC's diner with Kris because she knows Catti is working her shift... The implication that Susie is intimidated by catti makes me smile it's so silly and, we know Noelle and Kris like catti, they're all friends... (Catti and berdly probably get along alright or are maybe even friends through their mutual friendship with Noelle! And I think catti and Ralsei would like eachother because catti has an interest in spells and magic, which ralsei is able to cast.) So I'm imagining all of susie's friends getting along with the ONE person susie is openly intimidated by and the awkward moments between them... I do hope catti and Susie can be friends, I think they'd have an interesting dynamic! I think they need to learn to understand one another...

UR RIGHT! I have definitely thought abt that and how it'll turn out, catti seems rlly nice actually and she and Kris seem to get along rlly well and Susie rlly likes Kris and their opinion so, I do think there will be some maybe one sided rivalry that'll get solved once Susie realizes how much everyone loves her :) She and Catti would be the cool protectors of the group that everyone else looks for to hide ykwim?? Catti seems more like the big sister type even tho they're all the same age hdhdhd and Susie is like, she actually loves being heroic. I just know fully realized how silly and goofy she is by the end of ch2 and what she was like in the first half of ch1... completely transformed, she's like literally so so amazing and silly and agchdndnahs I love Susie so much :')

[obstinaterixatrix]

love reading your thoughts on things, please if you have time can you meta on deltarune chapter 2?

no pressure if you dont want to

ok let me try to remember the main points of the response I had before the app refreshed and ate the whole thing

1) Deltarune’s strength is balancing player agency and lack thereof—in my opinion, the best example is the Susie + Lancer fight in ch 1. Since it’s not a cutscene, there’s more emotional stakes and the feeling of helplessness has greater impact. This is one of the strongest instances when the player’s role changes from Actor to Audience

2) Kris and the player are kind of playing hot potato with the Actor/Audience role, but the boundaries are for the most part blurred and somewhat collaborative. You can direct them to interact with objects, but they can decide what to do unless the player gives them an unambiguous order (e.g. taking Asriel’s money) (sorry Kris). Otherwise, they can make their own decisions (saving the moss until Susie and Ralsei join the party so they can eat it… together). The player can tell them what to say, but they can choose how to say it (e.g. Kris’ incredulous “Join!?!”)

3) The greatest moments of impact are when either Kris or the player completely remove agency from the other and force them into the role of Audience—e.g. end of chapters 1+2, and of course, weird route.

Before we move onto weird route check this out

4) Weird route removes Kris’ agency and forces them into the audience role to a greater degree than other routes. “Proceed” does not give Kris room for interpretation. At this point I’d say it’s pretty well established that Kris-Noelle dynamic in weird route parallels the player-Kris dynamic. Think about getting the ring from the seller—similar to how Noelle is coerced to do something uncharacteristic that she obviously wouldn’t do in other circumstances, Kris is coerced by the player. If you can’t recognize the parallels between Kris and Noelle, you’re going to miss a lot of the metatextual themes and Kris’ characterization separate from the player.

My sister pointed out that in weird route, the dialogue options get a lot more detailed and have a different personality than the typical general prompts in other routes:

One thing I want to note is that some of these dialogue options are a LOT more lively, very much Power Of Friendship! in tone—“Let’s solve it together!” + “I’m protecting her from you!”—and I feel like it’s probably Kris’ influence, as if they’re overcompensating to course-correct. I wouldn’t say it’s Their True Personality—with what we know about Kris I’d say these are obviously uncharacteristically peppy—but I’m reading it as them overtly trying to push the player towards a different option. Another thing I want to point out is that as far as I can tell, this is the ONLY time Kris has the option to apologize (other than an ACT/interaction with an enemy in ch 1).

Something to put a pin in:

So I guess the main points are: the mutual Actor-Audience dynamic between Kris and the player; establishing that not all the actions/dialogue options are equal options provided by Kris; Kris is forced into the role of Audience in weird route but is (in my opinion) actively trying to resist it

[inquireanerdyberd]

Headcanon: Berdly could pair well with any of the other main 4 characters. Coming to respect Kris at the end of their adventures. Falling for Susie and her starting to enjoy having him around. Ralsei could be very patience and sweet despite how Berdly acts. And if he and Noelle were more than friends, they got along really well and are pretty similar.

Leave a headcanon!

((So I agree Berdly has compatibility with the rest of the Fun Gang, but not really in a romantic sense.

He already seems to hold a bit of respect for Kris, thinking of them like a rival and getting together to play games with them. I’m still not entirely certain what to think of their history since we don’t have enough information outside of Berdly mocking them, playing games with them, and seems to have a particular need for their validation. I do kinda ship Krerdly, but I think there’s actually a good argument for aromantic Berdly that I’ll get into in a bit.

Berdly and Susie… I have so many thoughts about them. In relation to this ask, I gotta say, I don’t think Berdly’s crush on Susie is actually substantial. Realistically, we’re not getting a love triangle, and it’s very clear Noelle and Susie are getting together. Once Berdly recognizes she isn’t into him and Noelle is interested in her, he’s more than likely going to drop everything and become the best worst wingman. He said it himself that Noelle is his friend and he needs to support her.

To sum up my thoughts on Berdly’s ‘crush,’ here’s this meme.

For their friendship dynamic, I can totally see them becoming gaming rivals. Berdly’s love language seems to be getting together with friends and playing multiplayer games, so I can imagine Susie being added to that list. I can also see them calling each other names like before, but more teasingly instead of maliciously. They both have a history of mistreatment by their peers (and possibly their parents,) so they‘d be able to connect on that front and prolly start standing up for each other if harassed. Both are fearless and loyal to those they care about. One is just more physically aggressive while the other is verbally aggressive.

Ralsei is an interesting case. He seems open and friendly to absolutely everyone, but he appears to be more confused about Berdly’s existence than anything else. In the unused text strings during the boat ride, if you pick ‘thinking about Berdly,’ Ralsei awkwardly comments how the boat is bird-shaped and asks ‘what part of him are you thinking about?’ He doesn’t have any commentary about him as a person or his abilities in the Dark World. However, he mentions Noelle seems sweet and comments how she specializes in ice magic.

Now, that’s not to say I think Ralsei outright hates Berdly. He’s certainly weird and off-putting at first, but once he sees what Berdly does after the Queen fight, I believe Ralsei would start to see his better qualities. He goes through great lengths to aid his friends (gathering up all of the chapter 2 recruits in a severely weakened state,) even risking his life (Snowgrave, neutral route.) As I mentioned before, Berdly is loyal to a fault and he’s a very genuine person. I can see Ralsei warming up to him eventually. I’ve seen this as a romantic pairing, and though I think it can be cute, I personally don’t ship it.

Noelle is straight up a lesbian, and if she isn’t, she’s very much not interested in Berdly in that way, so there’s little to no chance for them becoming partners. Them as friends, however? They are fucking besties and you can’t convince me otherwise. She was his first and only friend for so long (again, not entirely certain what to think of his history with Kris,) they’re practically siblings at this point. Berdly went as far as to pretend to be romantically interested in her because he thought she was into him just so they can stay close. I’ve talked to my boyfriend about this, and he said ‘There‘s no way he wouldn’t develop genuine feelings during that time.’ Thinking about it, he’s right. That’s why I think there’s a good argument for aromantic Berdly.

I saw Jaiden Animation’s video about her experiences as an aroace person. When talking about being aromantic, she brings up a scenario that’s pretty much beat for beat the exact thing Berdly did with Noelle: pretend to reciprocate romantic feelings out of fear rejection will drift them apart. Of course, Berdly didn’t know Noelle really did just want to be friends and nothing more, but the focus was the mindset he displayed. After seeing that kinda scenario play out in the perspective of an aromantic person, I can definitely see Berdly as aromantic, despite what surface-level text may imply.

Sorry this got so long, but GOD, I LOVE thinking about Berdly’s possible future dynamics with the Fun Gang. Let this kid have more friends! He needs a proper support system beyond Noelle!))

[everysongineverykey]

Susie for the fav character thing :)

susie!!!

favorite thing about them: ough i mean it's susie. where to start? i think her character development from chapter 1 to chapter 2 is some of the best i've ever seen- you can see it right from the very beginning, where where she was cold and mysterious and genuinely terrifying in ch1, she becomes excited and goofy and eager in ch2. really, she was always like that, but friendship has brought out her softer side, and it's wonderful.

least favorite thing about them: uhhh i don't know if i have one! solid design, wonderful character development, endlessly entertaining- yeah, no, she's the best!

favorite line: god that one's tough. susie has possibly the most (and best) one-liners in the game. "so... ferris wheels, huh. kinda makes you wonder what car they were built for," is an all-time favorite, as well as "Screw it let's just go play Space Pinball in the computer lab", "happy feet dumbass!", and "school. goddamn. project. books. god damn. crazy about them."

brotp: her and kris of course💙 two traumatized queer kids against the world and also they are mixed up in an adventure that bends the laws of space and time as we know it. what more could you ask for?

otp: suselle. i don't even have words for how much i love their romance. i'm so happy it's explored throughout the game instead of just at the end like alphyne in undertale (though i love alphyne too!) and their dynamic is *chef's kiss*

notp: ummm krusie kinda irks me but that's about it. oh and her and ralsei. she's gay💙

random headcanon: susie eats very poisonous mushrooms all the time without knowing it. she's so tough and weird they don't affect her and she just figures everybody else has incredibly weak stomachs

unpopular opinion: uhhh idk lol

song i associate with them: no idea!

favorite picture of them: all her talksprites featuring all her teeth. dumbass <3 plus the overworld sprite of her with pink cheeks after noelle hands her the lunchbox full of chalk!

[mymarifae]

susie for that character thing :)

@loverspond

ASDGJKG SUSIE TIME

favorite thing about them

holy shit susie is like. an allllllllllllllllllllllllll-time favorite character. she's right up there next to nighteyes, and if you know realm of the elderlings you understand how high of a praise that is. because like basically everything that comes out of nighteyes's mouth quite literally changed my life forever he is a very special, very beautiful character. but i think i'd put susie above him any day

everything about her is so well done. watching her grow and develop is the most delightful thing i've ever seen. when i first played chapter 2 i had to keep stopping to like. explode whenever she was on-screen. because she's just so much happier now. and it made me very happy as well. i adore that she stays rough around the edges but she also becomes one of the kindest, most compassionate characters in the game. she loves her friends so goddamn much. she has an abundance of love in her heart and all this time it was just waiting for someone to take the time to get to know her and extend a hand in friendship towards her... and now it's all pouring out and it's affecting everyone all around her and it's so. auudhhuhuguahy. susie.

i also looooooove her design to bits. little baby butch. she's purple

least favorite thing about them

don't have one. there's nothing to not adore here. she's perfect she's everything to me

favorite line

"Yeah, sometimes there's people you just gotta fight. But if you NEVER let your guard down, then... you might just hurt someone you care about."

also the entire conversation she has on the ferris wheel with noelle... love love loveeeeeee

brOTP

oh my god she has so many friends. which i think is so important. lancer, kris, ralsei....and i think she and berdly have a very good friendship dynamic in the works :)

i feel like her friendship with ralsei is the one that gets overlooked the most... she sees him as 100% one of her ride or die besties, as indicated by her response to his tea. you can tell in ch1 and in the very beginning of ch2 that she's slightly put off by him. she just isn't sure what to make of him, which i think comes from the fact that like. she's such a perceptive person. she can read people with an unerring accuracy, but ralsei is. very good at masking himself and presenting the version of himself that he thinks people want to see. and i think susie can see right off the bat that that's what he's doing, and it makes her uneasy. she's also very candid, you know? just unapologetically herself at all times, even if people don't like it. and also, i think his rather harsh criticisms of her from chapter 1 kinda linger in the back of her head when she looks at him...

but then they spend almost the whole day in cyber world together, letting both of their guards down a little bit and getting to know each other in a more honest way. susie's suspicions of him are banished because she realizes they're not so different; they're both lonely kids who never got a chance at friendship. his way of reconciling with that is just a lot different than hers. they spend an afternoon growing and learning together...away from the player's influence. and i think that's really special and important.

OTP

suselle duh :) they are so sweet. they complement each other so perfectly. they are both just a little silly and a little awkward and curious and shy and they are going to have so many horror movie marathons. i hope they get to go to the festival and the school dance together <3

nOTP

anything that's not suselle

random headcanon

trying to think of something i've never said before which is hard because if i have a susie thought i immediately sprint over here to post it. hmm...um. um. 😓 oh ok how about. she learns to sew and crochet from ralsei :) it starts off as simple mending, because y'know all those clothes in her castle town closet that are tearing each other to shreds. she's like, maybe this isn't as ideal as i thought it'd be. ralsei help. ralsei help. ralsei help. r- and he's like yes susie of course ^^ and while he's mending a particularly large hole in one of her shirts she kinda lingers and hovers over his shoulder. watching. and eventually he's like um. would. would you like me to teach you...? and she's like psh no. ...ok maybe just a little lesson. and it spirals from there! she gets curious about how he makes his scarves and dresses and wonders if she could make her own super awesome best ever clothes

unpopular opinion

i'm just going to say i'm not doing this one on any of them because i don't fucking know

song i associate with them

oh i've got like 4,000. so i'm not just picking one

i'm not your hero - tegan and sara

buttercup - hippo campus

KARATE - BABYMETAL

swinging - black box recorder

favorite picture of them

all of them on the planet.

[itbelillian]

deltarune ch2 spoilers

seriously I'm about to spoil the fuck out of the game and also the Alternative Route For Assholes

ok the 24 hour spoiler ban has passed but still: FINAL SPOILER WARNING. 

first: GOD this game is so. GOOD? holy sweet mother of meatball, I have been thinking about it nonstop for the past 2 days. it feels like a shitpost. I love queen dearly. the potassium gag. “what does bosom mean??” “tity.” every single interaction with her and berdly made me PISS myself laughing and especially The Statue. actually this whole game was really, really funny. the part where you and ralsei go on the swan boat, literally on acid, and battle it out with rouxls kaard. who is riding a duck. god where does toby come up with this material?? it is so weird but.... so good. his comedic chops have gotten a LOT better since undertale, and even chapter 1.

the art, music, and mechanics were SPOT ON. the recruitment thing, the implication that at some point you’re going to have to de-recruit someone for the betterment of your town, the town itself, just... good lord. toby has outdone himself. this adds so much complexity to the gameplay that was kind of lacking in undertale? I also love the way that the equipment has been done this time around, it adds an element of strategy to deciding who should get what items and when to equip different items. the team as a whole is so great, mechanics wise. fights with them are INFINITELY more entertaining than fighting alone as kris would be. and the art is WAY better than undertale. I've never been one to criticize Undertale’s graphics, and I still won’t, but it’s impossible to deny that deltarune is a step up in every way. the little animations of kris and susie entering the dark world, susie and lancer’s high-five, the attack/defend animations, just so good. the environments are super aesthetically pleasing, too. the music is great, of course. it’s Toby Fox what am I expecting?? to be honest nothing has really Hit Me the same way any tracks from undertale have, but maybe they will as I listen to them more. a big part of it is the familiarity.

also: I was never too attached to either susie or Ralsei in chapter one, but this really sold it for me. when I played Undertale I felt very invested in the characters, but not so much my friendship with them. it felt very much like we had just met each other. in deltarune I 100000 percent buy the friendship and I ADORE both of them so much? the fact that kris literally does not say anything but still has distinct dynamics with the two of them baffles me but I can’t complain because it is?? so?? amazing??? I was genuinely very upset when ralsei and susie left to do their own thing. I didn’t realize it as it was happening but I really loved having them around. I missed them. also it seems like EVERYONE except me was suspicious of ralsei, but now that it’s been pointed out... yeah. I love him to BITS so it pains me to say but something is Wrong With Him. why can he travel from dark world to dark world without turning into a statue? what are the titans, and why is he only mentioning them now? and actually, ALL of our information about the dark world is coming from him. how much is true? what else does he know that he’s not telling us? 

and what. WHAT. is up with kris? I don’t even have any theories I am just baffled. it seems like they’re the knight, right? have they been creating... all of the dark worlds, including the first one in the storage closet? does this make kris the villain? or is the creation of dark worlds a good thing... meaning ralsei is manipulating us into thinking the dark fountains are evil? Why would they slash Toriel’s tires? why are we possessing them? also I LOVE the puppet theme with the hidden bosses... and it really seems like something about that is not sitting right with kris, either. kris full on shouting that they’re not okay to ralsei after he asks... good god I am SO CURIOUS. the mystery element here is really on point. it’s so easy to settle into the comedy and fun little group dynamic, but something is always Wrong and when something reminds you it is deeply unsettling. the only group member who doesn’t seem to have something freaky and suspicious going on is susie... if she turns out to be evil too i stg im ejecting myself from the stratosphere 

also speaking of mysteries: not knowing how Undertale and deltarune connect is KILLING me. I fully buy into the theory that sans and papyrus are “from” the world of deltarune, originally. if the theory is true, then word search from icee’s pizzeria you find in UT is actually SO? brilliant. SANS GAVE YOU A WORD SEARCH FROM A RESTAURANT THAT ONLY EXISTS IN DELTARUNE. was toby thinking about this all the way back when Undertale was released??? but is deltarune an alternate... timeline? does undertale exist at ALL, if the sans and papyrus thing doesn’t turn out to be true? but if that were the case, why would sans’ grocery store be the same building as grillby’s, logo and all? does sans owning the grillby’s building indicate that sans went to the undertale world to take it?? what is going ON??? 

and just going to say it: snowgrave route in deltarune (is that what we’re calling it???) is a MILLION times freakier than the genocide route in Undertale. like ut is  depressing, it was Unfun to kill my friends, but the way you just... slowly corrupt pure, innocent Noelle and make her do your incredibly screwed up bidding is just disturbing. the way you just say “Proceed” at all the puzzles and like, gaslight her into thinking she didn’t TOTALLY MURK berdly and that ring seller guy... god it’s so messed up but also SO???? amazing??? murdering video game characters makes you feel like you’re... well, playing a video game. but forcing Noelle to do it for you??? something about that feels so much more twisted. god I feel like a sadistic bastard. 

deltarune is not undertale but it’s not trying to be. it definitely feels distinctly different, and maybe more sinister? expectations are through the roof for toby but he’s killing it. I remember being worried when deltarune ch1 was announced, because undertale doesn’t feel like the kind of game that can, or should, be followed up by anything. I think I was wrong though. I don’t know how its possible, but deltarune is the perfect thematic successor to undertale in every way I can think of. tl;dr PLAY DELTARUNE it was good 

[vaugarde]

SUSIE FOR THE ASK GAME DO SUSIE

1: sexuality headcanon

i hc her as a lesbian! i see characters that i love and hit them with the lesbofication beam

2: otp

SUSELLE OFC.... its so cute i adore their dynamic and the mirroring in their relationship, like how noelle loves her because she's a scary person who she knows won't hurt her, and how she admires that susie is more assertive and sees it as brave, while susie has a soft spot for noelle because noelle is one of the few, if not ONLY students who has ever shown her kindness?? like.... MAN i can't way to see them develop even further, the whole "i got comfortable" ferris wheel scene had me smiling like a dork the entire time. i actually think its surpassed alphyne as my fave undertale ship overall.

3: brotp

HER AND KRIS... i love her dynamic with just about every character actually, especially ralsei, but i love how kris really cares about her with or without the player's input. i love their dynamic where they're both weird kids bouncing off of one another, they remind me of my own friendships with people. truly neurodivergent on neurodivergent communication. its SO fun and they're funny together and wholesome and they have so much chemistry, the scene after the spamton fight where susie won't leave and jokes about roasting kris for warmth until kris smiles at her joke.... OUGHHHHH its just so good!! if it weren't for suselle and also my wish for toriel to adopt susie i'd honestly be down for shipping them, but personally with those factors and everything else, i think they just work best as weird kid besties. they are everything.

4: notp

i mean i dont have many popular ships that i dont care for i guess? idk if anyone actually ships it but ill go with her and berdly i guess. stop stealing from noelle also she is gay bro

5: first headcanon that pops into my head

susie had toriel as a teacher when she was younger, and toriel would give her a slice of pie or a scarf after class, seeing how thin she was and how she dressed too bare for the cold. susie never forgot this and always looked up to toriel, but ultimately kept her distance.

6: one way in which I relate to this character

being kinda oblivious to other people's feelings and keeping some relationships at a distance but trying to be better at it.

7: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character

being kinda oblivious to other people's feelings and keeping some relationships at a distance and resorting to being a bully at times

8: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

i dont care for these terms buuuuut she was a bully in chapter 1 so.... i guessss problematic fave?

[whatsnotbutters]

Tell me about your headcannons for Kris... I know you want to >;3 (Also if I'm. allowed to send you two, tell me about Ralsei too please)

i can absolutely do both!!

Kris

Sexuality Headcanon: honestly i don't have a set sexuality hc for them! they're just vibing Gender Headcanon: they're canonically non-binary (they/them)! i think kris doesn't use any specific labels personally but i do like agender kris hcs A ship I have with said character: berdkris is so funny but like again honestly i don't really ship anymore with kris dhdhsj A BROTP I have with said character: kris and susie!!!!!!!!!!! i love their dynamic so much, i also really like kris + noelle's friendship A NOTP I have with said character: kris x susie or at least like, fandom popular kris x susie. i don't think it's inherently a bad ship but so many people who ship kr*sie either misgender kris or are weird about susie so im just put off by it. same goes for kris x noelle A random headcanon: kris doesn't like puppets/dolls or anything else that's vaguely humanoid, it creeps them out a lot. also their favorite kind of pie is "mom's pie" General Opinion over said character: kris my friend kris!!! they're an absolute favorite of mine and they're either my favorite deltarune character or a very very close second to noelle. i think they're just really interesting and i can't wait to see how they develop. also idc if kris turns out to be ""evil"" they should be allowed to do whatever they want

Ralsei

Sexuality Headcanon: i think he's bi! Gender Headcanon: ohh genderfluid! i think he uses he/they/she, he also uses neopronouns (fae/faer) A ship I have with said character: honestly i don't ship anyone with ralsei either </3 A BROTP I have with said character: i REALLY like ralsei and susie's friendship, chapter two was so good for both of them and they just had a lot of cute moments :), i also like kris and ralsei's friendship A NOTP I have with said character: ralsei x susie but also honestly i don't like kris x ralsei either bc it just feels really weird to me A random headcanon: ralsei has so many plushies, he has like at least a small mountain of them. also one of his hobbies is needle felting! General Opinion over said character: i really like ralsei!! i don't really think about him that often but he's a cool guy! he's just a little guy and he has a nice color palette what more can you ask for. also i don't think he's evil or anything, he's just a really lonely kid </3