#theory 4

[istumpysk]

OPERATION ICEBERG: THE TIER LIST

THEORY:

The miller's boys were Theon's sons.

TIER:

People's Choice!

It wouldn't be as fun if I picked everything. I trust you to choose the right one.

Low Probability: While not impossible, these theories are unlikely based on the current evidence.

vs.

Long Shot: These theories are largely speculative, based more on wishful thinking or obscure hints than on solid evidence.

vs.

Debunked: These theories have been directly contradicted by the text, George R. R. Martin, or other authoritative sources.

[Tier list overview]

EVIDENCE:

Theon had been intimate with the wife of the miller.

Theon knew the mill. He had even tumbled the miller's wife a time or two. There was nothing special about it, or her. - Theon IV, ACOK

A hooded figure, thought to be a figment of Theon's imagination, calls Theon a kinslayer. Theon knows he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, so why would he call himself that?

Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. "Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer." "I'm not. I never … I was ironborn." - A Ghost in Winterfell, ADWD

After a transition from a Theon chapter to a Jon chapter, Ygritte tells Jon a story about a Lord of Winterfell who unknowingly kills his father. Theon, who called himself the Prince of Winterfell, could have done the exact opposite.

"So the son slew the father instead," said Jon. "Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak." - Jon VI, ACOK

In one of Theon's initial chapters, he rather famously fails to recognize his own sister.

"I like to be on top." Where has this wench been all my life? "My father's hall is dim and dank. It needs Esgred to make the fires blaze." - Theon II, ACOK

Roose Bolton tells Theon the story of how he impregnated a miller's wife.

"This miller's marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day. "A year later this same wench had the impudence to turn up at the Dreadfort with a squalling, red-faced monster that she claimed was my own get. I should've had the mother whipped and thrown her child down a well … but the babe did have my eyes. [...]" - Reek III, ADWD

Some believe Theon is dodging confronting his thoughts and emotions about the miller's sons, and being a kinslayer.

Robb was murdered at the Twins, and Bran and Rickon … we dipped the heads in tar … His own head was pounding. He did not want to think about anything that had happened before he knew his name. There were things too hurtful to remember, thoughts almost as painful as Ramsay's flaying knife … - Reek III, ADWD

x

"I have done terrible things … betrayed my own, turned my cloak, ordered the death of men who trusted me … but I am no kinslayer." "Stark's boys were never brothers to you, aye. We know." That was true, but it was not what Theon had meant. They were not my blood, but even so, I never harmed them. The two we killed were just some miller's sons. Theon did not want to think about their mother. He had known the miller's wife for years, had even bedded her. Big heavy breasts with wide dark nipples, a sweet mouth, a merry laugh. Joys that I will never taste again. - Theon I, ADWD

x

"[...] Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?" The question frightened him. Once he had heard Skinner say that the Bastard had killed his trueborn brother, but he had never dared to believe it. He could be wrong. Brothers die sometimes, it does not mean that they were killed. My brothers died, and I never killed them. - Reek III, ADWD

COUNTER-EVIDENCE:

Someone call a steward, the math is not mathing. At the start of A Clash of Kings, Theon is 20 years old, Bran is 8, and Rickon is 4.

As Theon shrugged out of his wet cloak, the girl said, "You must be so happy to see your home again, milord. How many years have you been away?" "Ten, or close as makes no matter," he told her. "I was a boy of ten when I was taken to Winterfell as a ward of Eddard Stark." - Theon I, ACOK

x

"Bran, child, why do you torment yourself so? One day you may do some of these things, but now you are only a boy of eight." - Bran I, ACOK

x

When the Walders had arrived from the Twins, it had been Rickon who wanted them gone. A baby of four, he had screamed that he wanted Mother and Father and Robb, not these strangers. - Bran I, ACOK

The sons of the miller were of similar ages to Bran and Rickon.

For Theon to be the father, it would mean that the miller's wife had slept with him when he was a 12-year-old hostage/ward of the Lord of Winterfell, which is highly improbable.

It's somewhat more plausible that he slept with the miller's wife when he was 16, making only the second son his. But one has to wonder, what would be the point of one son being his and not the other?

The miller's boys had been of an age with Bran and Rickon, alike in size and coloring, and once Reek had flayed the skin from their faces and dipped their heads in tar, it was easy to see familiar features in those misshapen lumps of rotting flesh. - Theon V, ACOK

In A Dance of Dragons, Theon recalls his early years at Winterfell, where as a boy he would skip stones, hide treasures, and stalk squirrels. He notes that it was later when he first kissed a girl, and even later still when he lost his virginity to a girl in the godswood. All these things point to Theon becoming sexually active in his later teens.

Theon Greyjoy was no stranger to this godswood. He had played here as a boy, skipping stones across the cold black pool beneath the weirwood, hiding his treasures in the bole of an ancient oak, stalking squirrels with a bow he made himself. Later, older, he had soaked his bruises in the hot springs after many a session in the yard with Robb and Jory and Jon Snow. In amongst these chestnuts and elms and soldier pines he had found secret places where he could hide when he wanted to be alone. The first time he had ever kissed a girl had been here. Later, a different girl had made a man of him upon a ragged quilt in the shade of that tall grey-green sentinel. - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

Theon claims he slept with the miller's wife "a time or two" (what potent sperm, must be a secret Tully) and specifically recalls seeing stretch marks on her stomach, indicating their sexual encounters happened after she had children.

Theon knew the mill. He had even tumbled the miller's wife a time or two. There was nothing special about it, or her. - Theon IV, ACOK

x

The night before, it had been the miller's wife. Theon had forgotten her name, but he remembered her body, soft pillowy breasts and stretch marks on her belly, the way she clawed his back when he fucked her. - Theon V, ACOK

If Theon were the father of the miller's children, wouldn't there be some sign that the miller's wife begged him to not harm his own offspring?

The night before, it had been the miller's wife. Theon had forgotten her name, but he remembered her body, soft pillowy breasts and stretch marks on her belly, the way she clawed his back when he fucked her. Last night in his dream he had been in bed with her once again, but this time she had teeth above and below, and she tore out his throat even as she was gnawing off his manhood. It was madness. He'd seen her die too. Gelmarr had cut her down with one blow of his axe as she cried to Theon for mercy. Leave me, woman. It was him who killed you, not me. - Theon V, ACOK

It's not just the hooded man, Rowan the spearwife, and Mors Umber also call Theon a kinslayer, despite not knowing about his affair with the miller's wife. This suggests that the theme of kinslaying in Theon's story mainly stems from his internal conflict between his Stark and Greyjoy identities, as well as his guilt over contributing to Robb Stark's downfall, whom he views as a brother.

"Not us." Rowan grabbed him by the throat and shoved him back against the barracks wall, her face an inch from his. "Say it again and I will rip your lying tongue out, kinslayer." - Theon I, ADWD

x

"I am — " " — a turncloak and a kinslayer," Crowfood had finished. - Theon I, TWOW

x

"[...] Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?" The question frightened him. Once he had heard Skinner say that the Bastard had killed his trueborn brother, but he had never dared to believe it. He could be wrong. Brothers die sometimes, it does not mean that they were killed. My brothers died, and I never killed them. - Reek III, ADWD

And finally, the story of Bael the Bard has virtually no parallels with Theon's takeover of Winterfell.

STUMPY'S THOUGHTS:

Weeaaakkk.

If you're looking for a credible theory about Theon having a secret child, wait until we cover the daughter of the captain of the Myraham.

VOTE:

NEXT THEORY:

Curtain of Light 🙂

[frankensteinmutual]

Signalis (2022) [H.P. Lovecraft, The Festival] /Sagittarius A* / Kathy Acker, Pussy, King of the Pirates / Outer Wilds (2020) / Is There a God-Shaped Hole at the Heart of Mathematics? / Drain for overflowing water at Sambuco Dam, Lavizzara Valley / ? / Thomasin Frances, Hole Theory (15/10/2022) / Bryan’s Ground, a public garden in Herefordshire on the Welsh border. / odd, weird, strange and unusual / Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves / Evil (2019-2014) / Judas H., Overflowing With Empty / Illustration of the Annular Eclipse of 1836 from “A fourteen weeks course in descriptive astronomy”, Joel Dorman Steele (1836-1886) / @imdad_barbhuyan on Instagram / The moon’s Copernicus crater. Through magic glasses. 1890. / Kaveh Akbar / Dune (2021) / x / Dmitry Kochanovich, Epiphany (Russian,b. 1972) / The Silt Verses, Chapter 41: But As My Last Breath Splits My Throat / Yousif M. Qasmiyeh, The Camp is a Bait for Time / Darina Muravjeva, Hole / Hilde Heynen in Heterotopia and the City / x / Leonard Cohen, Beautiful Losers / x /  Louise Glück, from Descending Figure / Anne Carson, Eros the Bittersweet: An Essay. / Caitlyn Siehl, What We Buried; from “A Letter To Love” / Lara de Moor, Orb (2014) / Sam Sax, Pig / The National - Wake Up Your Saints / Aleksander Rostov / Sanna Wani, from “Princess Mononoke (1997)”, My Grief, the Sun / Gregory Orr, [i want to go back] / Thomas Ott / ? / Judas H., Overflowing With Empty / James Baldwin, Giovanni’s Room / Massive sinkhole swallows house in Florida / Edna St Vincent Millay, in Letters (1952) /Silent Hill 4 (2004) / @/vren-diagram / Anne Boyer, What Resembles the Grave But Isn’t / Law of Holes / Scarlet Hollow (2021) / China Miéville, from Railsea

(part one)

[chloesimaginationthings]

William Afton has top tier FNAF parenting skills

[journalofabird]

What happened to the other 36 children that were born on October 1st 1989?

Why is Reginald Hargreeves an alien?

Why did Abigail say "Thanks for protecting me on the moon" to Luther?

Why was Jennifer inside a squid?

What happened to Sloane when all the others got to another timeline?

Without the comics, there are still so many questions left unanswered in the umbrella academy show itself.. and it's driving me crazyyy

[jtt-033-1613]

[drownedbycoffee]

THEY AREN'T THE FEARS ANYMORE!! THEY'RE DESIRES

(SPOILERS for TMA, and all of TMAGP episodes so far)

Okay, here me out

Tmagp1: Darla wants to hear Arthur's voice again. She even says: "I just couldn’t face the thought of the rest of my life never hearing him again, I had to try" and later on she even says: "But I had to know, so I went to the cemetery."

Tmagp1: RedCanary wants to know about the Magnus Institute. They want to know why it's listed under 'cleared' when there's no evidence of it. Hence why they go and explore it.

Tmagp2: Daria wants that absolute perfection. She wants to change who she is and get out of that dark place. When she talks about the thing that she felt was missing, she says, "... and that’s when I decide I need a tattoo. I had a couple already – just little things on my shin and my wrist – but I decided I needed something big. Something that really changed my look." She also mentions when talking about Ink5oul that "they just kept pressing me about my life, about why I wanted the ink" instead of asking what design she wanted. And when she got the tattoo she describes herself as now being, "Someone I wanted to know more about." Afterwards she even says how "For the first time ever [she] wanted to attempt a self-portrait. Something real and physical, [she] wanted to feel the brushes in my hands and the oil on [her] fingertips." I think a lot of her statement is about her desire and impulsive need for that perfection and that wholeness that she has been aspiring to for her whole life.

Tmagp3: Samuel wants to stay hidden. He wants and he "need[s] to get up, get out of here for treatment." He wants to get better and most of his delirious thoughts are the things that he wants, or feels like he needs. E.g. "I so much want to see it [the sun] again. This night seems endless. I want to be warm again. I am terribly afraid. Thank god for Maddie. I need to treat her better."; "I just need to rest."; "I need to be careful or we’ll drift apart." And then obviously as the narrative continues, Samuel wants to grow and 'put down roots'.

Tmagp4: The narrator wants to be revered and accepted into the Royal Court Orchestra of the Palatinate. He wants to show off and impress. The violin "was a creature with needs and purpose of its own. The needs were simple enough. Blood. Flesh." It has these needs and desires.

So far, I'm interpreting it to be that everything so far can be interpreted as a desire of sorts, varying in the strength and intensity of it. Obviously, fear is still a big part of it all, because if you want something so badly, aren't you afraid of it being stolen from you? Of it being out of your grasp? Of it being unachievable or impossible in some capacity? Of it being a lie?

Even Sam wants to find out more. He wants to know the why and the reason for things. Gwen wants Lena's job. Collin wants to fix all these bugs and keep Freddie running. Alice wants to just get on with it because she found out that wanting to know the 'why' of things is dangerous.

I think that somehow when the Web took all the Fears into a different universe, they morphed into something else. Or they changed to fit what was the most prevalent thing in that universe, because after all, everyone wants something, even if it's something small and inconsequential. Life and aspects of it has always been characterised by that desire for something. Like people wanting food, shelter, safety, love, warmth, happiness, etc. And I think since the Web was so intwined with Jon and Martin, it absorbed some of their emotions when it found its way into this new world, because after all Jon and Martin wanted to stop Jonah/Elias, to stop the apocalypse, to destroy the Panopticon, to be safe, and they wanted each other. I think the wanting and fear of things are really entwined in it all, though this could be absolute bullshit haha

[calwyne]

Just saw this posted on Twitter by @NearlyRemy and lost my mind:

My off the cuff translation:

Do not be sorrowful, my heart,

The way of endurance rewards, and

Guides you to our love,

And our joy

- Solas

(Cries happy tears in a corner)

[egophiliac]

Hi it's just to let you know that the official romanization of Revaan's name is Raverne ! Also they have romanized Baul's name to Baur !

Twst coming back at us again with the least expected romanization! thank you everybody (oh god my inbox) (no it's great, I literally asked for this and the reactions have been INCREDIBLE, thank you all!)

I do like Raverne though, I think it's got a nice fancy sound to it! (I had kinda suspected it was going to be an R instead of an L, so the fact that it's SO close to Laverne except for that is hilarious to me personally.) and Dragoneye Duke is honestly probably the best translation for his title, I wasn't envying the localizers that one. :') Baur instead of Baul I was NOT expecting, but in retrospect I think his name's supposed to be a reference to the Bauru crocodile, so that actually makes way more sense!

someone else also said Meleanor has become Maleanor, which is the REALLY weird one to me, because I was so surprised it was written as Mel instead of Mal in the first place?! oh god no I can't decide which one I like better. 😭 (I wonder if they might change it to Mal...they have made romanization changes before) (like I remember House of Distraction being corrected to House of Destruction in Playful Land) (I did check and she's still Mel for now, but I dunno, they might Mal her up and some point and save me from having to make a decision about which one to use) (HECK I CAN'T DECIDE)

uhhhh thank you for letting me ramble about anime names, let's just say MONOGRAMMED SWEATERS FOR EVERYONE

[zecoritheweirdone]

wanna preface this by saying that i am. So normal. anyway i just spent the last week redrawing scenes from mystery skulls animated but as that hermitcraft au i posted about a couple times. you guys should watch msa it is. so so good.

[loverofstufflof]

I HAVENT SEEN ANYONE ELSE TALK ABOUT THIS

THE VENGEFUL DICE

THEY’RE FROM THE MYSTERY MAN THAT SOLD THE HOMICIDAL VIOLIN

DISCOUNT MIKAELE SALESA IM COMING FOR YOU—

[divineandmajesticinone]

4 MINUTES (2024) I EP. 6 & EP. 7 "You're still afraid of dogs."

[shuyis]

It's not a coincidence

[strollthroughstars29]

How far can a person bend before they break and how long can the broken be wielded before they turn double edged?

This season was so devastatingly beautiful, but ironically, the metaphorical crown wouldn't be heavy if the gemstones didn't dig into the head of the wearer.

Sometimes, the line between mercy and cruelty can be thin.

The reason WHY Claudia resonates so deeply with Aaravos' story is because it's a mirror that she finds herself in. She IS the daughter in the story but not the one who pays the price. No, that was paid by her father... her father, who was brave enough to do what Aaravos couldn't. What's heartbreaking is that she doesn't even realize what she's discarding is the same thing Viren chose to embrace in death; his humanity.

One father who chose to bear the brunt, and another who chose to sacrifice his child.

I absolutely loved the parallel between Callum and Rayla having a do-over of their reunion, getting what could've been, but Viren refusing to reveal the truth to Soren, knowing one is a blessing and the other, a curse. Forever losing the opportunity to know what could've been.

The loss portrayed was so unsettling...

To even the loss we felt as the audience, seeing what made Viren who he was... his own son, to seeing what he made himself and the loss of what could've been and how his death proved the one thing we didn't want him to show... him having a human heart. And that's what this show did magnificently... it made this audience root for people against our will.

From the unfinished story of the lovers forever frozen in time to the mournful ballad rayla sang to console the stormbringer.

The only thing left to see is how these weapons charecters are to be utilized.

How callum will embrace his darkness and if Rayla will be able to kill him if need be. Or if promises will not be the only things to be broken next time.

[sirfrogthe3rd]

"If an artist falls in love with you, you can never die."

[birrdify]

what if 4 just went so coo coo crazy once that even mr puzzles would catch onto his weird ass behaviour<3

[myname1sca1]

Okay. So, this part is obviously heartbreaking. We've discussed Mike not hugging him. But look at WILL. Look at his hand. Look at how he GRIPS Mike. Like this bitch needs a hug SO BAD. He is suffering from WITHDRAWAL. MIKE PLEASE JUST FUCKING HUG HIM