#thg reread tbosas

[heavensbeehall]

"The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes," Chapter 5

Part I: The Mentor

Chapter 5: Coryo is upset about the demerit, but gets better when people give him attention. Okay, fine. I relate to that. He goes back to the zoo. Sejanus is there trying to get the tributes to eat sandwiches. Lucy Gray and most of the tributes take one. Marcus won't. Lucy Gray is skeptical of Coriolanus. Lucy Gray sings the Valley Song. Sejanus reveals that Marcus was his classmate in District 2. He offers to trade tributes with Coriolanus, who declines.

A self-important little girl marched up beside them and pointed to a sign on the pillar at the edge of the enclosure. “It says, ‘Please don’t feed the animals.’” “They’re not animals, though,” said Sejanus. “They’re kids, like you and me.” “They’re not like me!” the little girl protested. “They’re district. That’s why they belong in a cage!”

I hate this child. Can we sacrifice her instead of Prim or Rue?

His stomach growled at the smell of the sandwich. A thick slice of meat loaf on white bread.

Do people really put meatloaf on bread? This is shocking information. I just googled it and found recipes. What a waste of perfectly good bread (I don't like meatloaf).

Lucy Gray watched the standoff with interest. “What’s going on there?” “What do you mean?” Coriolanus asked. “I don’t know exactly,” she said. “But it feels personal.”

Coryo, like Katniss, isn't great at interpersonal dynamics, is he?

Her usual playful tone shifted to a sober one. “So, as my mentor, what do you get out of this? You’re at school, right? So you get what? A better grade the more I shine?”

[insert insightful comment about Lucy Gray having a performance voice and a regular one. Comapre to Finnick.]

Sejanus looked down at the empty backpack by his feet. “Ever since the reaping, I keep imagining I’m one of them.” Coriolanus almost laughed before he realized Sejanus was serious. “That seems like an odd pastime.”

Empathy: An Odd Pastime

There was one more consideration. He had something Sejanus Plinth wanted, and wanted badly. Sejanus had already usurped his position, his inheritance, his clothes, his candy, his sandwiches, and the privilege due a Snow. Now he was coming for his apartment, his spot at the University, his very future, and had the gall to be resentful of his good fortune.

Coriolanus sounds like one of those white kids who gets mad at PoC for taking "their spot" at Harvard or whatever. Mediocre parasites.

[jeanmoreaux]

people have pointed out the many different ways in which the snowbaird dynamics foils the everlark one but i think nothing captures the fundamental difference between them better than the fact that katniss and peeta kept choosing each other's survival DESPITE the threat of death whereas coriolanus and lucy gray chose their own survival BECAUSE of the threat of death

[katnissandpeetamellark]

Y’all rereading TBOSAS drains me

[ifwebefriends]

Damn the more I think about The Hunger Games trilogy the more I regret reading those books for the first time when I was 11 and just a liiittle too naïve to realize some important themes in the books, my thoughts were like:

“Awww that’s sweet that Peeta confessed during his interview ☺️ why is Katniss mad at him?! 🤨”

“Wait, Katniss is pregnant?!?!?!?? How did that happen?!?!? And why is Katniss confused about it?! 😳”

Basically my reaction to the trilogy back then was literally:

[farosdaughter]

‘[…] had I really loved, could I have sacrificed my feelings to vanity, to avarice? — or, what is more, could I have sacrificed hers? — But I have done it. To avoid a comparative poverty, which her affection and society would have deprived of all its horrors, I have, by raising myself to affluence, lost every thing that could make it a blessing.’ Sense and Sensibility, Chapter 9, Vol. III.

I can’t believe Jane Austen predicted snowbaird 210 years ago!!

‘[…] she loved him. She’d said so last night in the song. Even more, she trusted him. Although, if he ditched her in the woods to claw out an existence alone, no doubt she would consider that a breach of faith. He had to think of just the right way to break the news. But what would that be? “I love you deeply, but I love officers’ school more?” That wasn’t going to go over well. And he did love her! He did! It was just that, only a few hours into his new life in the wilderness, he knew he hated it.’ The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, Chapter 30

[cxanthos]

The significance of Coryo throwing away his mother's rose powder at the end of tbosbas is not lost on me.

Throughout the whole novel we see Coryo have opportunities to choose to be good, to be selfless and to be more like his mother. And time and time again he chooses power, he chooses the option that will further him and just him in life. He chooses, slowly, to become more like his father.

Yes the powder was ruined after the water but keep in mind he couldn't even get rid of it when he was giving the compact to Lucy for the games. Coryo in the beginning of this journey never would have gotten rid of it- it brought him too much comfort. A mother's comfort.

The rose powder represented the last bit of good, of empathetic reason, that Coryo had- and he threw it in the trash. Hence the change of being referred to as Snow instead of Coriolanus in the epilogue.

He really had became a version of his father in the end.

Also, another conversation for another post, but Coryo believed all the choices he was making were good or at the very least necessary.

[leulahart]

need the tumblr verse to know that my thg/everlark art is (apparently) brought to you by a prophetic vision given to me in september of last year

[little-de-vil]

It’s so funny how I’m friends with so many TBOSAS/Corsco Core (is that what y’all call yourselves?) people. I once again feel like the odd duck out because I’m here in the Katniss timeline, where it is literally (in both literal and literary aspects) impossible for our characters to interact.

I still eat it up though! I love y’all!!!💖💖💖



[allthethoughtsandstuff]

reread the hunger games in the most fucked up order this year

may: mockingjay

november: the hunger games

november: tbosas

december: catching fire

[heavensbeehall]

"The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes," Chapter 12

Part 2: The Prize

Chapter 12: Uh-oh! Emily was reading so much fanfic she forgot where she was in the actual book. Coriolanus is jealous of everyone who dares get near Lucy Gray. He hates Sejanus and Ma Plinth. Tigris comes and he's like, "What do you think that song was about? Is she really a whore?" They go home. Grandma'am is also awful. He writes about the fun of war. The next morning, Clemensia is still missing. He gives Lucy Gray his mother's compact and tells her to put rat poison in it.

Quotes:

His girl. His. Here in the Capitol, it was a given that Lucy Gray belonged to him, as if she’d had no life before her name was called out at the reaping. Even that sanctimonious Sejanus believed she was something he could trade for. If that wasn’t ownership, what was?

Oh gross. Now I remember why I didn't want to keep reading.

“One hearing’s all my cousin Maude Ivory needs. That child never forgets anything with a tune,” said Lucy Gray.

If Maude Ivory was Katniss's grandma, do we think her dad had a Covey name? With a color?

Just like those Peacekeepers back in 12. Coriolanus couldn’t help wondering just how friendly she could be.

Coriolanus thinks she's fucking the Peacekeepers in the Capitol and 12.

Sejanus appeared, in another brand-new suit, with a rumpled little woman in an expensive flowered dress on his arm. It didn’t matter. You could put a turnip in a ball gown and it would still beg to be mashed.

Now I am just quoting all the awful stuff he thinks. But also I have never had mashed turnips? Why not say potato?

Tigris’s rebuke shocked him, but less than her alluding to behavior that might be considered a disgrace. What had she done? Because if she’d done it, she’d done it to protect him. He thought about the morning of the reaping, when he’d casually wondered what she had to trade in the black market, but he’d never really taken that seriously. Or hadn’t he? Would he have just preferred not to know what sacrifices she might be willing to make for him? Her comment was vague enough, and so many things were beneath a Snow, that he could say, as she had of Lucy Gray’s song, “Well, that could be anything.” Did he want to know the details? No. The truth was he did not.

So here's the thing about this: I think he doesn't want to know because then he would feel indebted to her, and he can't stand that. But... he is indebted to her. I know family is family and it's not the same as if some random stranger did it, but she gave up going to university so she could work to support him. I don't think he needs to pay her back or anything but he should be more... not grateful necessarily but just aware of what it took to get him here. He may think he just "deserves" all this (and that's a whole other issue) but it wasn't just given to him. She had to sacrifice.

That our ancestral home has gotten too large?

It's a dumb apartment, you weirdo. That is hooie! He bought this place in the 80s! /ben blanc

“The trouble with girls is, they’re not used to fighting the same way boys are,” said Hilarius. The Heavensbees were ultrarich, the way the Snows had been before the war. But no matter his advantages, Hilarius always seemed to feel oppressed.

I wonder if this sense of oppression made its way to Plutarch somehow and made him want to fight.

“The thing is,” Lysistrata whispered to Coriolanus, “I’ve become rather attached to Jessup.” She paused a moment, arranging the wrapping on a chunk of baked noodles and cheese. “He did save my life.” Coriolanus wondered what Lysistrata, who had been closer to him than anyone else in the arena, had seen when the bombs went off. Had she seen Lucy Gray save him? Was she hinting at that?

Okay here's the part where I begin to piss off the Snowbaird shippers. I think Lysistrata has more genuine feeling for Jessup than Snow does for Lucy Gray. I don't think it's romantic, but I do think it's more the appropriate reaction given the circumstances. Snow is all about ownership. I wish Lysistrata did see Lucy Gray save Snow and told everyone so he couldn't pretend it didn't happen.

[andillwatchh]

reading and watching and thinking and talking about the hunger games aren’t enough, i need to eat it

[the-sun-and-the-sea]

(I’m sorry i found my way into your askbox again) but i’ve been wondering pretty much since i started following you (but never asked bc i wasn’t sure if you wanted to talk about tbosas)- but do you have any thoughts on what district 4 is like in tbosas? specially, do you have any thoughts on mizzen or coral’s life?

Hey no worries, I'm always down to talk about tbosas! I did a reread a couple years ago and I used to talk about it a lot more on here but my focus kind of shifted, but yeah I'm definitely still interested in talking about it.

Omg my biggest thoughts on d4 in ballad have to do with Mags and how her involvement shaped the games. I headcanon that she started the career program, at least in 4, and was a large part of how 4 became a career district. It's really interesting to think about how 4 used its inherent advantage (swimming and skills with spears, tridents, etc) to maximize their success in the arena. (Also, your headcanon about Mags and Mizzen being siblings makes this hit so much harder, I definitely love that!)

In terms of Coral and Mizzen, I think it's so interesting how they were part of one of the first "career packs". What I really like about tbosas is that even though the Games are so much more primitive than in the trilogy, it's still easy to see how they became what they did. To me, Coral and Mizzen are a good example of this, as they feel like they could be Careers.

Also another thing with Coral, I thought it was really interesting how in the movie, they made her the last to die. I think they were probably leaning into the Career aspect to give the audience something familiar to latch onto. When she was about to die and said that she can't have killed them all for nothing, I was like :( that is brutal

I don't really have thoughts on their lives outside of the arena unfortunately. They seem to have some sort of camaraderie in the arena but I'm not sure how well they knew each other before, d4 is a lot bigger than 12 so it could really go either way.

Honestly I love reading your Mizzen thoughts and that's about as far as I've gotten, but I love talking about d4 in any capacity. Thanks for asking!

[katnissandpeetamellark]

If Billy Taupe wasn’t a moron

Lucy Gray and him probably would’ve been a Johnny Cash & June Carter Cash sort of duo

[ifwebefriends]

I started rereading Catching Fire yesterday (I haven’t read the book in over 10 years) and the first chapter is already making me kinda insane for a few reasons

“A light snow starts to fall as I make my way to the Victor’s Village” (12) this pretty much directly foreshadows President Snow’s visit with Katniss at her new house

“[the Victor’s Village is] a separate community built around a beautiful green, dotted with flowering bushes. There are twelve houses” (13) I know that the number 12 is just kinda a common theme in this series but a part of me also kinda thinks this foreshadows the layout of the arena in the 75th Hunger Games as well as the victors’ involvement

After the BOSAS movie was released there’s been a lot of debate about whether Lucy or Coriolanus is the songbird or snake, I kind of think they’re both in their own ways but the final line of this chapter is literally “I'm staring into the snakelike eyes of President Snow.” (17) and made me want to scream

[scandalouslamb]

Hi, we’ve not met but I’ve been thinking about this post of yours & it also has me going insane. Funnily enough, I made a Tik tok about this ages ago but I also wrote it so I’ll just put that in. I just love discoing the education in the Capitol v Districts, it’s one of few things I was surprised of in the TBOSBAS and sooo happy to dissect!

We know in the districts that they just have a constant, pre-k to high school public-school like education system that is heavily doctored and monitored by the government. We also have the training academies which most think of as an after-school program, but that’s still ultimately funded by and for the government to continue the cycle of propaganda and indoctrination.

Now what we learn in TBOSBAS is fascinating because although it has the same foundation as the districts with it being heavily propagandized, but they have the option (or opportunity if they are financially stable or have enough nepotism) to continue their education after their time at The Academy. The idea of The University as this inaccessible, elitist symbol for Capitol children to strive for as a way to grow and climb the social/political/economic ladder of the city is the complete opposite of the idea of education in the districts.

School is where children go to get their daily dose of propaganda, then if they’re old enough, they go to work. And so-on and so-on until they are reaped or graduate and dedicate their lives to their trades, their slavery.

The education system in The Capitol is a symbol of hope for success, whereas in the districts it is a symbol of stagnancy until work or death.

Hi! Yes, education in Panem is really interesting to think about, and I love what you've pointed out here! It is really interesting the juxtaposition of how education is framed in the Districts vs. the Capitol.

I was talking with other people once about the other schools in the Capitol as Coriolanus mentions other secondary schools. I wonder how much a disparity there might be between those schools and the Academy (I mean they apparently end school sooner in the year than the Academy, so that already feels like a big difference if the Academy, so I'm sure there are other differences). The Academy of course seems to be the premiere secondary school in the city with potentially special ties to the University? (It would make sense since the Capitol's leading families all go to the Academy but they also are geographically close to each other since Snow can walk from the University to the Academy in the Epilogue).

It would be interesting if as you point out the education system in the Capitol is seen as a hope for success, but due to the requirements (tuition and whatever academic standards have to be met), it is actually mostly the affluent students from the Academy attending. Maybe, the Capitol presents itself as a meritocracy but still preferring the already wealthy and elite families. Coriolanus does mention that the University has more people and more types of people (Ch. 19), but for me, it would make sense that the actual statistical breakdown would show a majority of the students coming from the Academy.

Referencing the University with a capital U most of the time, also leads me to believe that it is the only university in the Capitol? Although the occasional uses of lowercase university does make it possible that there are others.

I often wonder about the middle to lower class of the Capitol since Coriolanus mentions in TBOSAS that there's a bit of an unemployment crisis going on. I suppose there is a bit of an implication that the Games might be providing new jobs in the future to help with that though as they gain popularity though, and joining the Peacekeepers seems like a common enough thing to do.

Anyway, it's a bit sleepy writing this, so sorry, if it's a bit ramble-y/if there isn't really anything too insightful in here, but again, what you brought up is really cool! It makes me want to re-read the OG Trilogy to remember more of the smaller worldbuilding details (education-based and otherwise!)

[picnic-at-dreaming-rock]

Whilst I do understand and agree to an extent with the sentiment that wanting more thg books/movies about specifically the games is capitol-like behaviour, I also think the way a lot of people have been saying this is very reductionist, especially since we're talking about fiction here.

The people in the ‘you’re missing the point of the books' camp are correct in noting the political messaging and subtext within the novels about the exploitation of violence (and the irony of making an mcu-type franchise of all the hunger games just for the purpose of having them), but I would argue that they themselves have almost entirely missed the point of fictional stories as whole. Yes, part of the success of THG, both commercially and as a piece of storytelling, is her underlying allegory but the other part, which we really cannot forget, is that it is just an otherwise compelling piece of fiction that has placed the Child Killing Show at its epicentre.

TBOSAS has really showed us Collins has clearly thought out the lore of Panem (I personally wouldn’t be surprised if she has already written/planned a bunch of other stories but just hasn’t decided to do anything with them as she doesn’t have something to Say with them yet) and we only ever see the tip of the very fascinating iceberg; I would argue that it is perfectly reasonable to be curious about things we don’t see but are alluded to within the text because of how different this world is to ours. It also makes complete sense as to why the curiosity tends to surround the titular games themselves as they are such an intriguingly unfamiliar concept and are integral to the plot of all four books, which then basically cements the ‘story about Panem = story about the hunger games’ connection.

Further, it is also important to discuss the characters and the emotionally compelling aspects of THG. To reiterate my earlier point, THG aren’t just a political allegory, they are also pieces of fiction, therefore, it should a series whose merits should be considered on both fronts. Her characters are complex and nuanced and are meant to be cared about, with rich character development from beginning to end of the series. I would argue that it’s part of the reason why a series with such an overtly disturbing premise has done so well commercially in both book sales and the box office. I mentioned previously about the games being integral to the plot and I would argue that it is the same for the characters. In many ways, the games act as a character study for how different people react in the same(ish) scenario and how it highlights key aspects of who they are as people as well as forces them to change for better or worse. Similarly, for all of the victors, the games are continually emphasised as defining moments that can tell a lot about said victor.

Putting these two concepts together, it is no surprise that the equation ‘this quarter quell concept is an interesting idea, I’d be interested to hear more about it + I am emotionally engaged with the characters and it’s interesting to see how they all respond to different things in their world + Haymitch is my favourite character and I would love to learn more about him + we learn a lot about characters and Panem during the games’ is going to equal ‘I want to read a book about Haymitch’s games’.

And yes, there is a lot to say about our society and how often we exploit violence afflicted onto others for our entertainment (true crime comes to mind) and how often fictional portrayals of that can desensitise us to real world horror (I also think of all those studies about the correlation of violence in pornography and subsequent violence towards women), but also I think this also comes back to the problematic viewpoint of ‘depiction = endorsement’ and considering what media you consume as equivalent to political advocacy, which is also equally harmful for media literacy as refusing to read for subtext, both of which are practices that discourage nuance and critical thinking

I am also not denying that there might be people with whom the emotional resonance and messaging of the books go straight over their heads, and they do really just seem to want to see kids battling to the deaths, which is something that I have seem to have come across now and then. However, I think to assume that everyone that expresses a desire to read more of Collins’s work and world is doing so out of such a desire rather than to connect with and learn about a world that clearly has significantly more to it than what we’ve been shown whilst also being aware of the core messaging of the series is a bad faith move and, dare I say, similarly problematic.

And again, because this is the piss-on-the-poor website, I want to emphasise that I believe that both sides to this ‘debate’ have legitimate reasoning, but because I do tend to stay on the political/literary analysis side of the fandom, I have, of course, more to say in that regard than for other sides of the fandom. I also want to stress that I am not just talking about the Tumblr fandom here, but also things that I have seen on other platforms and I'm just venting some frustrations that I have had.

All in all, always initially assume miscommunication over malice unless you actually have proof and if you’re going to pride yourself on ‘understanding the point’ of something, remember that you are still susceptible to creating false dichotomies and ditching empathy for moral superiority never makes anything better.

(also want to point out that this is not a conversation about a scenario in which Collins pulled a r*wling in terms of turning her ip into a capitalistic empire because that is a different conversation entirely and this is just about fans wanting hypotheticals out of love for a book series)