#tmagp analysis

[radioactive-yuri]

another big difference between tma and tmagp is that in tma, the listener is essentially on the same page as jon at all times. you know what he knows, and when he discovers something new, he immediately tells you. but in tmagp, everyone already knows more than you. and they won't tell you. you just have to try to listen in at the right time.

it's kind of tied to tape recorders; in tma, your existence as the listener is justified. it has a purpose. you are the tape recorder. that's why you get to know everything. in tmagp, you're not supposed to be listening. what you get is scattered, contextless scenes, starring people who don't know that you're listening.

and i fucking love that.

[iwillstabyou]

TMAGP 31 - A Computer Nerd’s Breakdown Of The Error Logs

It’s round 3, bitches! (tumblr crashed twice when I was writing this so I’ve had to start again multiple times. I do in fact see the irony, considering the subject matter)

I was listening to TMAGP 31 and as a computer nerd, oh my god those error messages just HIT DIFFERENT. There are so many subtle details hiding in those lines that a typical non-computery person would probably miss, so I feel it is my duty to explain them and their possible implications. So that’s why I’ve decided to fully break down each part of the error report, complete with what they could potentially suggest — think of this as “the TMAGP theorist’s guide to deciphering Chester’s yapping”

So without further ado, let’s get this party started…

(NOTE: lines from the transcript are in red, ‘translations’ are in purple, jmj specific stuff is is green, explanations are in black)

Starting off with Category: fatal programmer error, notice it says programmer, not program. There is nothing wrong with the code - the user has truly fucked up. Uh oh, Colin has made a big mistake…

Also, clever double meaning here with the word fatal. Obviously we know it was fatal to Colin (RIP king 🥲), but error logs also typically have a criticality level describing if immediate action needs to be taken. There are 6 commonly used levels, with the most critical being, yep you guessed it, ‘fatal’ - this means that whatever Colin was doing was a critical threat to the system. In other words, Colin had figured out the problem and was dangerously close to fixing it so Freddie just went “oh shit, we need to deal with this guy quickly or we are in serious trouble.”

Then we’ve got the next line, attempted host compromise (the Errno611 isn’t significant - error codes vary from system to system). When it comes to network terminology, a host is basically just any device on the network, so in full this line basically means “somebody’s tried to damage part of the network.” Importantly, “host” seems to suggest that the computers aren’t the source of this evil but merely a vessel for it. Freddie is just the mouthpiece for these supernatural forces - a bit like a non-sentient (as far as we know…) avatar. Whatever these forces are, they didn’t come from within/they weren’t created by Freddie.

(NOTE: I will come back to jmj=null in a bit)

The program traceback, Traceback <module> by extension BECHER, is rather interesting. A network extension is a way of providing network access to remote users (think along the lines of a VPN) by creating a personal direct ‘route’ to the network. Therefore if it’s the subject of an error report, it means there’s been an issue with data transmission along that path. So this bit means “there’s a problem with this specific network route that’s allocated to Colin.” However, the darker implication here is that Colin is an extension of Freddie. Although he wasn’t initially a part of all of this, he’s become tangled in the web (no pun intended) to the point that he and Freddie are inseparably intertwined. The OIAR employees may be able to quit their jobs, but they’ll still be a part of Freddie…

There isn’t much to say about Host=self.host in this context. It’s just convention when it comes to object oriented programming. Not important here.

Extension BECHER compromised isn’t just saying “there’s an issue here.” It’s saying “there’s an issue here that is a serious threat to network operation.” In other words, Freddie’s going “uh oh. Colin needs to be dealt with.”

The next bit is pretty self explanatory. I really don’t think I need to explain what <hardware damage_crowbar> means for you guys to understand. This bit made me laugh so hard. One thing that’s interesting though is that it gave it a DPHW, so Freddie processed this like it was an incident… Perhaps this fully confirms that the ‘thing’ controlling Freddie is of the same origin as the cases - it’s not something else entirely?

And now onto Administrator privilege revoked. This was the moment when I fully realised “oh no. Colin is fucked,” because any control that Colin may have had over the situation is now gone for good. Freddie’s basically just said “fuck you Colin. You’re not in charge anymore. I am.”

As you can probably guess, Unexpected data isolated/resolved just means that the crowbar’s been dealt with and the program can run as usual. Similarly, the Colin threat is fixed now he’s not an administrator i.e. he can no longer control the system. However, it then gets weird with Independent operation permissions revoked… It’s not saying Colin can’t use the network independently, it’s saying that Colin can’t be used independently of the network. Remember what I was saying earlier about Colin being a part of Freddie? Yeah, well now he purely is a part of Freddie. They’re turning our boy into data!

NOTE: I know in the audio it said everything was discarded but I’m going by the transcript. Idk why they’re different

You know it’s a bad sign when you hear Re config: self.host - Freddie’s evolving. The network is literally reconfiguring itself to now include Colin. And then Freddie goes through each of his alchemical elements one by one and fucking deletes them! How rude. You go and eat this man only to spit everything out!? I guess he’s feeling generous though, because he decides to keep the sulphur, which in alchemy, refers to the soul… If this isn’t just a coincidence, then that means Colin’s actual soul has been uploaded to Freddie. That could be really cool. And messed up. But mostly cool.

Starting with the final line, everyone knows what New administrator permissions assigned means, but we don’t know yet who they’ve been assigned to. Maybe it’s Gwen? Maybe it’s a new character? Maybe there is no system administrator anymore? It’s a mystery.

Now that’s out the way, let’s get on to the real juicy stuff…

The top few lines are pretty simple - it’s Freddie’s way of saying “Colin was a problem. We ate him. Now he’s not a problem anymore.” The next line, however, is a reminder that none of this is simple” - .jmj error not resolved. There it is again. The infamous jmj error. What does it mean? Jon? Martin? Jonah? Is that you???? Nobody knows. One thing we do know though is that jmj=null (from the start of the error log). Now when it comes to interpreting values, null is weird. It’s not zero, it’s not empty, it’s sort of nothing but it’s not nothing. It’s just null. It means no value, but it doesn’t mean that the variable doesn’t have a value (if that makes any sense to you guys???). Ooh I think I know how to explain it?? Imagine you’re Jonathan Sims, head archivist of the Magnus Institute and you’re digitising some archived ID photos when you find one without a name. The recorded name in the database would be null - you can’t put anything in particular, but that doesn’t mean the person in the photo doesn’t have a name. I guess null means unknown or missing here. So basically, what jmj=null means is that the jmj is unknown and that is a problem because it can’t get ignored/it is important. So what it’s basically saying is that jmj is a mystery not only to us, but also to Freddie.

Take a look at Data integration cycle ongoing <0.02%> - Data integration is the process of combining data from multiple sources into a single source of truth. There are 4 stages: data ingestion, cleaning, transformation, and unification. Thanks to the whole Colin ordeal, I’m sure you are all quite familiar with these stages by now (and that, students, is what we call a case study!). The peculiar thing here though is that we’ve just witnessed most of the data integration cycle - surely it should be higher than 0.02%? Yes, that’s correct. It should be far higher than that. It makes no sense. UNLESS this isn’t about Colin. Most of Colin’s data has probably already integrated. This is something else entirely - something so much bigger and foreign than these computers were designed for (the only comparison I can think of is trying to run the sims 4 with all expansion packs on a 15 year old laptop. It really shouldn’t work, and it probably won’t, but it’s gonna try regardless). This seems to follow on nicely from the jmj=null comments above, because Freddie is clearly struggling to integrate something (hence System function margins down to 82%), and when you try to read data that hasn’t been fully integrated with the system, you end up with a lot of missing & unknown values. Sound familiar? Yep, that’s right - until more data is synchronised, many values will be null, like our good friend jmj. Why is it taking so long to integrate jmj? We don’t know. Perhaps its origins are so supernatural and otherworldly that it’s simply not tangible enough for Freddie to process it? That’s what I think at the moment, at least.

So yeah, that’s my line by line analysis done! Hope you found that helpful/interesting. This podcast is so well written I’m actually going insane! Jonny and Alex, you are the guys of all time! As I’ve already said, feel free to expand on any of this - I’d love to hear your theories

Signed, your friendly neighbourhood computer nerd who is very autistic about TMAGP :)

[murderandcoffee]

wait wait wait we've seen this before. we've seen someone ignore the fears so hard that she survived a ritual. sure, alice is flippant like tim, but the way she just ignores and compartmentalizes the horrible things she's forced to witness is so much like basira.

[magnus-marmot]

Transmutations in TMAGP

Since most of the incidents deal with change and transformation, I'd like to collect my thoughts on their nature in one post. So I'll be explaining some ideas on the alchemical processes taking place. First I'll explain a (relatively) simple Tria Prima model, and then I'll try to break down some processes and symbolism we see in the show. This will be really long, like excessively long. Look, I'll throw in some nice alchemy pictures to make it more palatable. Feel free to skip the Tria Prima part if you've been reading my previous theories, I'm not really covering anything new in that.

Transmutations broken down with the Tria Prima

I think the most simple way to view it would be with the Tria Prima. Many of you are probably aware of the Body/Mind/Soul division, and while it's extremely simplistic, it actually works for us here.

From Alchymia complementum (1630)

We have the Body, or the Salt 🜔, which is the core, the physical shell, the metaphorical earth that the change is inflicted upon. In an alchemical transmutation, Salt must first be separated from the volatile components by burning or decomposition, and in the end they are brought back together. In TMAGP, Salt would be the physical, grounded part, such as a human body, a Bonzo suit or a creepy toy. You can think of it as a vessel.

Then we have the Mind, or the Mercury ☿. This is trickier to break down because the alchemists saw it as so many different things, but you can think of it as the essence. Not just the essence of the subject, but of everything. It's the malleable and volatile part of the subject, but it's also the intangible thoughts, concepts and archetypes in the collective unconscious, the metaphorical water or air that flows through everything. It's both the prima materia and the dissolving principle. In TMAGP, this would be the the changing ideas and beliefs around a concept, most recently demonstrated in how Henrich Unheimlich came to be, but you can see it in a lot of the cases. It's why all the supernatural phenomena reflect not only fears but also expectations and other strong feelings. Why the lack of clocks and purpose creates timeless liminal spaces, why the fear and reverence given to Bonzo made him what he is. It's what the Archivist uses as a fuel for its human transmutations and what the Magnus Institute tried to tap into for their Magnum Opus.

And finally we have the Soul, or the Sulphur 🜍, which seems to confuse people the most because of what we usually think of as the "soul". It's not the entirety of a human psyche, just the active, conscious and feeling part. But it's also the soul of all matter, in that it gives them life and allows active change. It's the metaphorical fire. Alchemists thought that Sulphur can be used to coagulate Mercury, to give it form. In TMAGP, Sulphur would be the catalyst that initiates the transmutation. It can be literal fire (like what possibly created Heinrich Unheimlich), or just a metaphorical fire, such as the violent act that gave birth to Bonzo.

From Hermaphroditic Child

There are also clearly two types of transmutations in the show. First we have the active ones, caused by fire or intent. Then we have the passive ones, caused by slow dissolution and characterised by coldness. These mirror the active (Celestial Nitre or Sol) and passive (Celestial Salt or Luna) principles of alchemy. It also evokes solve et coagula, where all matter is constantly dissolved and coagulated. As alluded to before, Mercury is what dissolves and Sulphur is what coagulates, and their purified counterparts in Luna and Sol form a harmonious unity when brought together. Which brings them back to their Salt.

A lot of the cases can be broken down into Salt/Mecury/Sulphur, but it's not an entirely clean model because many of the transmutations go wrong or are incomplete. Next I'll try to break down the actual processes based on some common symbolism and what we're given in the show.

Transmutation stages and common symbolism

For this I'll assume the most basic version of the Great Work, which consists of three stages: nigredo, albedo and rubedo. There are loads of different stages and processes, but they generally fall under these three. The cases in TMAGP rarely involve the entire process, and some are clearer than others.

From Pretiosissimum Donum Dei (1475)

Sealed vessels

First of all, I've noticed that a lot of these transmutations take place in a sealed vessel of some kind, much like they do in alchemy. This can be anything from a Bonzo suit to a closed Victorian carriage, a coffin, a locked room (such as a prison cell, a lock museum, a room in a reptile emporium, a virtually made zoom call room, the Archivist's office), a closed off liminal space (like a secret garden with no exit, a pier enveloped in fog, a brutalist building trapped in a void), or even a human body (like in Alice's dream, like alnewman's thigh, or like Herr Schmidt's brain).

Nigredo (blackening)

The stage where matter is broken down, burned or decomposed. Transformation can only occur once the old has been reduced to ashes so that something new can be born from it. Spiritually it involves ego death, stripping down the conscious thought and dissolving into the unconscious. Common symbolism/imagery include death, corpses, skeletons, dismemberment, rot, toads (ie. the decomposing prima materia), crows, ravens, Saturn/lead, darkness/night, indistinguishable black mass (massa confusa), flooding, drowning (especially of the king), eclipse, the green lion (=mercury) swallowing the sun.

From Philosophia Reformata (1622), coloured by Adam McLean

Here are some examples I've found in TMAGP:

Calcination or decomposing matter with heat (either open fire or a more subdued, natural heat). While there are cases with proper fire, heat seems to be the important factor here. In her dream, Alice describes the unbearable heat that envelops her when she's stuck inside her heart. We also get the exterminator at the reptile shop complaining about the heat when she's stuck in the room with an infection (=decomposing flesh), Lady Mowbray's caterer is cooking with high heat when his experience begins, Magnus mentions the unreasonably warm weather when he encounters the carriage, Menke was "sweating buckets" in the Bonzo suit, Mrs. Locke keeps forgetting to get someone to turn the heater off, and so on. Heat is what begins the transmutation process in these cases.

Dissolution into the mercurial waters. This is usually what drowning signifies in the alchemical imagery, and also what I think it signifies in TMAGP. Especially the drowning of the old king, which we're straight up given in the lock museum. Bonus points to the pest control lady who was about to be drowned in snakes, an extremely common symbol for Mercury. We also have the tech review guy speaking about the screen dissolving, and one of the transcripts has an instance of the Archivist dissolving into the wind. (No one can convince me that these word choices are coincidental.) And then we get some dissolving egos. The guy with his cursed dice seems to be losing his identity and starts seeing himself only as an archetype of a stranger who tricks people into rolling the dice, and poor Kyla's ego was dissolved into the emergent mind of Liverpool. We also have several cases of people who get lost in liminal spaces (such as the pier or the service station, even the custodian at Hilltop) and then get their identities dissolved. I don't think it's a coincidence that this happens at liminal locations, which are very aligned with the concept of Mercury. Especially if there's an element of water present. These themes are also usually accompanied by mentions of coldness, which tracks with Mercury's properties being wet and cold.

From Splendor solis, coloured by Adam McLean

Descending or entering a dark space, both of which align with the idea of descending into the collective unconscious or the "dark night of the soul". The darkness is pretty straight-forward. It's the violinist getting lost in the dark woods, Doctor Webber entering the dark garden, Patricia repeatedly talking about being in a dark space/world with her baby. The descent is more incidental, but I'm keeping an eye out for patterns. For example, the old couple had to descend to enter the lock museum, the food critic descended the alleyway to Hungry Man's Grill, a lot of descending into basements. It's a recurring theme but could be meaningless.

Infections or putrefaction, or the literal decomposition of living matter. We've got our fair share on the account of this being a horror podcast, but this should be seen as a transitory stage in a transformation. Some good examples include Dr. Webber's body breaking down and decomposing to give way to his new plant self, or Alesis's body becoming paralysed and moldy to allow the coral to grow. Magnus's colleague being ingested in the carriage, Bonzo's victims putrefying inside the suit, Alice/Sam's rotting corpse in her dream, the rotting food in Hungry Man's Grill (this one seems interesting, because the restaurant seems to be stuck in the putrefaction stage and the food refuses to decompose even when the guy leaves).

Sunset as a manifestation of the green lion devouring the sun (gold dissolving into mercury), which symbolises the onset of ego death or the beginning of the blackening (or the night). This has been emphasised in two cases. Firstly, the crypto bro from ep. 13 looks at the sun setting behind the sea (=Mercury) twice when making decisions on the trading app, and secondly, Lady Mowbray's hunt begins when the sunset colours everything crimson. Both of which are pivotal moments for these characters' personal transformation.

From the Rosarium Philosophorum

Albedo (whitening)

This stage marks the purification of matter through repeated washing, distillation and the like. It's where we begin to see the true essence of the prima materia and will be able to separate it from the rest. This stage is often associated with Luna, silver, or the White Elixir/Tincture. In psychology, it's where you discover and reconcile with your Shadow (or Animus/Anima) in the unconscious. Common symbolism includes doves, swans, lilies, whiteness, vibrant colours and eyes (known as the peacock's tail stage, though it's technically the transitional stage between nigredo and albedo), water of life, bathing, dawn (as in "always darkest before"), light emerging from the darkness, the queen, the moon (Luna), Anima (in the Jungian sense).

From the Mellon Collection

Some examples in TMAGP:

Purification or washing as an intentional attempt at removing impurities. Daria making adjustments to her painting in an attempt to perfect her own body. The violinist washing his hungry violin with blood in order to purify the music it produces. Alesis attempting to rid herself of her own impurities by growing a new self out of a coral (a lot of water and moonlight in that one, which fortifies the connection for me). Since purification is also often attributed to mercurial water, a lot of the water symbolism fits here too.

Colours, as seen in Daria's vibrant tattoo. Also the colours rushing into the liminal service station and the odd colours seen in the fog surrounding the pier. It's fitting, but not a very prevalent theme. Unless you count all ink, in which case it's very prevalent.

Encountering one's Shadow, which is a big theme in both TMA and here. Coming to terms with your inner darkness, fears and desires is what purification is about in spiritual alchemy. I think this is what the Archivist is doing. It's an embodiment of the Shadow, covered in eyes, here to distill and purify your fear and then project it back to you (killing you in the process). Although it's up to debate whether it feeds on the purified, distilled fear or the impurities left behind, it does leave something to be coagulated into the physical manifestation. (It's also worth noting that the compulsion has a lot of water imagery attached to it in the transcripts, things like "the dam breaks", "words gush out", "pouring out of her unstoppably like a river". And just to be extra clear, rain, dew, seas and rivers are all common symbols for Mercury.) Other than that, there are plenty of doubles or reflections in the show. We've got Darrien and his alternate darker self, the Millenium Dome construction worker's clone, Herr Schmidt's actual Anima crying to be let out of his brain, the horror blogger seeing his traumatic memories projected onto the big screen, Dr. Webber encountering his late wife in the garden, Alesis meeting her Piece in a dream, the list goes on. The important part for purification is the acceptance or healthy integration of the Shadow, which usually takes a twisted turn in TMAGP.

Dreams are often attributed to Luna, and they function as a link to the subconscious. In TMAGP, many of the dreams are linked to an epiphany, though it's not always a purifying one. Especially on the TMA side. Though I think the tech reviewer's meditation in the locked room could be seen as a form of purification. I think dreams and meditation have a wider metaphysical effect that I won't go into here.

The queen or the mother would go more into discussions on characters than processes, but I'll mention it here anyway since the albedo stage is most often equated with Luna and the emergence of the queen. We've got a couple of mothers, most notably Patricia (probably not Rupey's real mother but anyway) who's feeding her baby with her own blood (this is often symbolised by a pelican which were believed to bite their own chests to feed their young). Alesis is also very nurturing, and her entire case screams lunar symbolism. And the most obvious queen would be Lady Mowbray, who's described as a matriarch. But the most interesting one of all is our very own Celia, who fits the lunar archetypes of motherhood, secrets and deception to a T.

From the Ulrich Ruosch Manuscript

Light in the dark is pretty straightforward. Patricia describes Rupey as bringing light to her dark world, in the Hilltop custodian's memories there's a sudden light coming from one of the shops in the dark shopping centre, the computer monitor sheds light into the dark zoom room, the ritual Sam witnessed radiates yellow light into the dark. (Though the yellow makes it more in line with the citrinitas or yellowing stage, which is specifically the solar light shining through instead of the lunar reflection. It's a frequently forgotten stage with little direct symbolism so I thought it would make more sense to omit it, but just know that depictions of sunrise or yellow light might lean towards the citrinitas stage between albedo and rubedo.)

Rubedo (reddening)

The final stage marks the completion of the Work and the emergence of the Philosopher's Stone. It includes the conjunction of the opposites and the coagulation of the ultima materia. In psychology, it involves the integration of the unconscious and the ego into a singular self. Common symbolism for the reddening includes a phoenix, the king, a crown, the sun (Sol), gold, red or purple dye, red roses or poppies, blood, trees (specifically the Philosopher's tree) and lions. The union of the opposites (Sulphur and Mercury, silver and gold, Animus and Anima etc.) is symbolised by a marriage of the king and queen, sun and moon, red and white flower, two lions fighting, a lion (sun) devouring a serpent (moon), procreation, and so on.

From The Twelve Keys of Basil Valentine

Examples in TMAGP:

The union of opposites is a continuation of encountering one's Shadow, and sometimes this part is counted into albedo (or citrinitas) as well. But the conjunction can only happen once you've separated and purified the components, or made peace with them. Dr. Webber is unified with his late wife (queen) in the garden, and the two are coagulated into one tree. In Alice's dream, she's also unified with her late husband (king) into the same body, though the process is incomplete and has to begin again (probably because she's not able to perform the separation, which is thematically fitting and painful for my soul). The conjunction is also present in the union of Sulphur and Mercury (or their purified versions Sol and Luna), which I discussed in the Tria Prima section. And I currently think it's also what Fr3-d1 or the entity inhabiting it is trying to do with the data it's collecting.

Blood and dye, which are symbolic of the liquids that give the Stone its crimson color. Lots of blood to go around, but the most relevant case would once again be the violin and the blood that purifies it. Purple dye reminds me of one case alone, and it's notable that the more purple paint there was on Bonzo's cards, the more present he became. It's not entirely clear to me when Bonzo actualised into what he is now, so it's difficult to say whether that was intentional. Though the episode was written by Alex, which means I'm much more willing to read intentional alchemy symbolism into it.

Devouring is big in alchemical iconography, and it's big in TMAGP too. We've got masses of people biting into each other (the violinist's audience and the hungry non-people in the service station), obviously Bonzo eating people (and letters), Lady Mowbray's cannibal party, little German kid eating a mum sandwich, demon baby eating his "mum" just cause (bringing us back to purification with blood), and Hungry Man's Grill which we can't prove isn't serving human meat. Either way, it's often used as a metaphor for the conjunction.

Trees have also only popped up twice (as far as I recall), but in compelling cases. First is Dr. Webber, who by now has gone through all the stages. Second is Newton's Arbor Philosophorum, which is usually formed with Mercury or Silver. He feeds its fruit to his dog (another act of devouring and union), who begins to grow into a tree itself. Newton truly was on the precipice of something.

From the Twelve Keys of Basil Valentine

Conclusion

Whew, I'm never writing something like this again [bzzt]. If you read this far, wow. I'm impressed, and I appreciate you. Did the pictures help? Or make it worse? Let me know.

PS. I recognise that I might be drawing parallels where there are none, but that's what I do. I hope you got something out of it. Also do not ask me what's up with Needles. I have no idea what to make of him.

[ceaselessims]

i'm following up on this post i made a few weeks ago because there is a post gaining traction about how this idea of the fear domains being run primarily by people in power or people abusing power is reductive of the original message of tma.

i invite people thinking this way to listen to season 5 again, and the avatars that we meet. jon makes a point to explain that someone is either being watched or the watcher. Either way, you are part of the system.

in tma, the fears are a stand in for the inescapable, comic weight of oppressive and exploitative systems. there is nuance in how people participate and become involved in them, but nonetheless the avatars are exemplary figures of these systems. Callum Brody, a child, explaining that he was afraid and now he likes to make others feel afraid. Helen and Jon fighting about Jon's inability to accept the fact that he is a willing and active participant in the suffering of others. Peter Lukas and his family using their prominence and power to lure people into the Lonely. And of course, Jonah Magnus using the power of his institute to control and seize power from everyone he could possibly even slightly manipulate.

Even Martin has to deal with the fact that by being with jon he is contributing to the suffering of others, by chosing to not be watched he is participating in the apocalypse no matter how well intentioned he is.

does it take away from the more broad metaphorical messaging by spelling it out in protocol? maybe a little bit, but the idea that avatars are extensions of the fears, and therefore the exploitative systems (i.e. power), has always been present in the overall story of the magnus archives. a theme of the show is choice, yes, but it's also about the nuance of choice under corrupt systems that have already placed you on a certain path.

[macabresymphonies]

(minor TMA spoilers and general TMAGP spoilers) Having so much time to think about incidents in TMAGP due to hiatus made me realize that all of them, to some degree, contain the theme of "sealing your own fate" or "consequences of greed/hubris".

You see, while I do not believe that TMA had a consistent theme every statement was based on, the overall messege seemed to be that horrors are inevitable. Once you've been marked you cannot escape, no amount of therapy or running can release you from it. I think Michael Crew is the best example of that:

"The thing that chased me, you see, it was an arcing branch of the Twisting Deceit, taken shape to follow me. (...) And I knew within that book was something that could not only release me from my pursuer, but chain my being to that rush of wind and vertigo forever." Michael Crew in "The Coming Storm"

You cannot escape it once you've been marked, only bind yourself to different one and this marking is, most often than not, nonconsensual. Jane Prentiss would run around and infect random people, Not!Them didn't need anybody to come to them before it was sealed and Peter Lukas also tended to just disappear random people just to feed. The fears were very predatorial and active and the victims were selected based on their own fears and anxieties. This is not to say there weren't victims who failed due to their own curiosity/hubris/greed, but I think it's telling that few of the most greedy/curious people in the series, Mikaele Salesa and Jurgen Leitner, stayed largely uncorrupted by the fears not cause they avoided interacting with them, but simply avoided getting marked by them.

Now we come to protocol and every incident so far has the main subject of that incident actively engage with the horror and have one or multiple points at which they could stop and leave, but they do not. Daria went to the tattoo shop on her own accord, Harriet wanted her husband back no matter what and even Dr Webber was described to be able to leave the garden whenever he wanted, but, due to hiding from authorities, chose to stay until it was too late for him. Every incident so far seems to have this theme of consent, characters detailing very clearly that consent was given to engage with the abnormality:

"Ah well that’s a tricky one. Sort of? In many ways he stabbed himself on me. By the time he saw the needles we were already very close. Close enough to smell his sweat and cheap aftershave. In fact, he barely had time to be afraid before we embraced. He’s terrified now of course…" Needles in "Introductions"

"The young man's interview was not exceptional as he had no experience in charity work, no driving license nor any demonstrable experience in retail. He claimed however, to know the Hilltop Centre better than anyone and as he was the only applicant in the role I elected to give him a try." Dianne Margolis in "Give and Take"

"I hesitated a moment but before I could consider her strangeness a particularly high tide of color swept down the corridor toward me. I panicked, and before I realized what I was doing I had darted inside the lift and slammed the close-door button." Terrance Stevens in "Running on Empty"

It does not matter some of these are under duress or deception, all of them contain some type of action "confirming" consent. Mind you I do not believe all the victims of of these horrors confirm consent in some way, like people who get killed by Bonzo probably didn't agree to it (though considering he's most likely a hitman, some degree of "you agreed to this by overstepping your boundaries" philosophy could be applied), but subjects of the incident very much pay for consequences of their own actions.

That brings us to OIRA itself, and how every character so far seems to actively dig themselves deeper by their own accord, Gwen wants position of power, Colin wants to figure out the system, Sam wants to know why he wasn't chosen and Alice is in it for the money (for her brother which still counts as consent). This is literally said directly to us in episode 1:

"If you hate working here so completely, you are perfectly within your rights to resign. No one is forcing you to stay here." Lena to Gwen in "First Shift"

All of this, all this horror is happening due to their own accord, curiosity, obligation, greed for knowledge or just for the money, it does not matter, the choice is there, but they delve deeper anyway. We will see how long it holds up, but I will be on the look out for this theme in the future.

[cult-of-the-eye]

yeah so tmagp 23 was about women having children to "save themselves" and become better in the eyes of society, after they have been rejected by society (in this case, relationship break down with husband). then the pressure that they put on said child to actually save them, after the terrifying process of birth, in which others provide hollow praise for undertaking it (liking but not commenting). Their child is to be the better version of themself and the mistakes that they had made. Their child will have their eyes but borrow nothing else. Of course the child turns out "wrong". Of course they turn out to be a "monster" in the eyes of the mother (and by extension, the mother's community - the community on the blogging website.)

[buk-kakyoin]

I am LOVING how TMAGP is using parallels and expectations from TMA to ratchet up the horror and anxieties of its own monstrous encounters. Listening to a tape click this episode was anxiety inducing as-is, but hearing a MYSTERIOUS WOMAN HAVE SOME KIND OF VIOLENT AND ODD FIT IN AN ALLEYWAY AT NIGHT WHILE AN INNOCENT PASSERBY STOPS TO HELP??? HMMMM, WHY IS THAT FAMILIAR????

At least in TMA, the people having these encounters were not often main cast, so we'd hear these stories secondhand and imagine the moment through their telling, but this time it's ALICE, a MAIN CHARACTER, stumbling directly into a situation that's eerily reminiscent of our first brush with Jane Prentiss, whose last encounter with a girl ended with the girl bursting into worms, and all we can do as an audience, with all our useless forbidden knowledge, is to listen to it play out as it's meant to.

And I think they're doing all this on purpose—with that tape recorder click especially. Hearing it makes us immediately think "there are connections here to make" and so we make the connections, but can we handle the implications of those connections???

idk I'm just having a great time lol

[skyeoak]

TMAGP Episode 34 Thoughts

Gloves are off for worldbuilding spoilers. Let’s fucking go!

I was wondering how this interrogation would go. But I forgot that Sam is the most bafflingly trusting character in this series. If I was in this position I would not have thrown out “oh, it’s an alternate dimension,” at all. But also props to Georgie for making a snap judgement to trust Sam. Not surprising if she’s been running the horror response agency for four years.

I do feel like the characters should dig a little further into the quesiton of “why you,” PARTICULARLY because of how many weird parallels Sam has with both John and Martin. (plus I just want him to flip out a little when he hears what John and Martin sounded like. teehee.)

He was in a weird dream? What? I guess that’s the interdimensional hub that the previous doppelgänger statement was about?

Oh. Oh the archivist already outside the zone. Oh we’re cooked. And the more I think about this episode, the more I wonder what this archivist’s plan is. Because I think it would be cool if it was some sort of heroic-but-at-what-cost type thing. Idk. Multiversal apocalypse is cool too. Go off, archiqueen/genderneutral.

The statement:

Hey so this woman’s fearpocalypse domain sounds awful. The fear that you’ve hurt before and will hurt again makes me go HMMM AGHHHHH OUCH WHOAAA. Somehow it’s E. M. Carroll coded (a positive). I especially loved the time dilation/losing track of time aspect. It kinda combined an adrenaline rush and non-24 syndrome in a way that really supported the themes of never knowing when you’ll kill. Just knowing you have the capacity. And that others do as well. And uh, something something, hurt people hurt people. Or at the very least, some grow paranoid that they will.

I think this statement leans more slaughter just for the focus on death, but also it’s canon that the fears kinda broke down and melded and diversified during the whole eyepocalypse ritual, so I don’t know if it’s important to know the specific type. (This is partially just me covering for my headcanon that Smurke’s fear types were only so present and cleanly separated in TMA because the Eye knew Elias’s plan and was helping him with it to an extent. Which is just a headcanon. But I like it.)

Aaaand her death was the sort of visceral schlorpy mess that makes magpod so good. 10/10.

Hoping that we start to jump between the Alice-Gwen-mension and the Sam-mension in episodes, because OH NO, I need to get updates on both sides every week for my personal wellbeing (/hj).

[hikaaa-bi]

also this episode brings back the whole ant allegory, with the entities just being one huge creature. i think most people forget it at this point, and try to assign separate entities to different cases when multiple entities can and do show up in one occurence because at the end of the day, they are all just extensions of a bigger, incomprehensible eldritch being.

[radioactive-yuri]

i adore how tmagp really leans into the idea that you are the horror. you're what's wrong here. you're listening. you're not supposed to be listening. you were transferred into this universe along with the fears.

you are a voyeur, and you do not belong here.

[vlly-of-despair]

I feel like there’s a meta contextual aspect of Protocol and the themes of transmutation, transformation, desire, memory (specifically of childhood and the past), or nostalgia. Like they’re playing into the idea of the past series inscribing our notions of the people and features of this series, and in some aspects, we do have reiterations of previous characters, locations, and entities.

But they have been altered and warped in ways we can’t imagine. I believe the first episode kind of already gave us a clue into the premise of this series in the negation of regaining what we’ve lost and receiving a version of that, but not quite as we remember. The first case, the woman tried to find her dead husband, but found a monstrous figure which stated he was ‘some of him’, mutated into something with his body, and perhaps some of his nature, yet unrecognizable. I wouldn’t be surprised if they reveal that the events of TMA and the Fears seeping into other universes did have consequences, but not in the way we expect. Instead, the people of the Tapes, those memories, and the ‘somewhere else’ that links all these universes together has been bleeding into worlds and the remnants of what has happened before has been altering the current realities.

This is why we see bits of the characters and locations we remember, but so different. It’s like memories warping what’s in front of us, changing the fabric of the present. Much like Protocol being in the shadow of Archives.

[thevoidcannotbefilled]

I think it's really important to understand why Chester and Norris simultaneously are and are not Jon and Martin. The first statement gives a good hint about it, where they're only part of them. And now? They're something different. Jonny said that he's satisfied with where Jon and Martin's story finished and I still think that's the case. However, there's a reason why these two voices do have their own names.

I saw a post saying that Alex said the magnus protocol is a question on what makes a person a person.

Are Chester and Norris people? Are they Jon and Martin? Are they simply just echoes of emotions left behind? Can they exist outside of Jon and Martin and be something or someone else?

So in summary, I find it a bit too rash to fully discard that these are Jon and Martin but also not on board to just call them that over Chester and Norris. In fact, we should be asking, what is the thematic significance of bringing back characters that should be long gone? Especially in a way such as this?

[clerical3rr0r]

I already knew TMAGP had a chokehold on me, but last night I dreamed up an analysis of the latest episode. It’d be a shame to let all that hard work go to waste. Part 24 spoilers under the cut.

We all know the demon baby trope. We all begrudgingly tolerate the demon baby trope. It’s fine. There’s nothing actually wrong with it. But there’s nothing really exciting about it either. You see one evil baby, you’ve seen every evil baby. When I first saw that in the descriptions, I was skeptical about the episode.

BUT the thing that made it work is that the demon baby wasn’t the real horror in this episode. Little Rupert was merely the backdrop. The fears actually being drawn on are much more real. The first thing that hit me about that episode wasn’t actually the feeding element. It was the isolation.

The statement giver was a single mother, who from the first recording admitted to struggling to provide for her baby’s every need. Even her support group didn’t seem to give much practical help, with the only piece of advice we heard from them being “sleep when your baby sleeps.” Which, as anyone who’s ever dealt with infants and small children knows, really sucks as far as advice goes.

She mentions how none of the other moms seem to need bandages, how they’re holding it together just fine. It’s an odd choice of words. It doesn’t sound like Rupert is the only baby feasting on human flesh. It sounds like the other moms are just not tending to their wounds, not ‘needing’ to. Which raises some more questions about Celia and her kid, but that’s about par for the course at this point.

And things really escalate when she stops showing up to the support group entirely. Sure, the other moms weren’t helpful, but at least they were there. When it was just her and Rupert and her thoughts, the sense of obligation to give and give and give won out time and time again. The health visitor, who was definitely an avatar orchestrating this whole thing, doesn’t count as company. They were most likely just feeding the statement giver’s downward spiral.

What was most chilling to me was that at the very end of the final recording, even as she died, she worried more for Rupert than herself. She’d stopped seeing herself as a person outside of him a long time ago. And sure, part of that is the consumption. But it’s so much easier to let yourself be taken advantage of when you don’t have a network of people around you to help and validate and fight for you. When she died, she was effectively alone.

[theanxiousghostartist]

TMAGP Re - Designs Part 6 - Celia Ripley

TMAGP S1 And TMA Spoilers below

Design: Ironically, I had an extremely hard time designing her, especially her face. I ended up trying to make her look akin to Alice's opposite. While Alice has round shapes as a base, Celia has sharp shapes. Alice has a punk style, Celia has a cozy corporate style. Alice has long hair, Celia has short hair, etc etc. I did try to work in a lot of symbolism into her design. Her hair is dyed to represent moving on from her past (stolen) identity, and her hair is asymmetrical to represent growth from her past (stolen) identity and to give her a sense that she doesn't quite belong. I also really like the "hair holds memories" trope, so I headcanon that when her identity was stolen by the Stranger, her hair was also cut/shaved. She has a scar over her nose from the Eyepolcolypse, probably from Helen (when she tried to eat her). I like to headcanon that when she and Sam went to visit TMAGP!Helen, her scar burned a little bit, reminding her of the dangers of TMA!Helen. She has sharper teeth as a little indicator of her not quite belonging, as well as her cutthroat nature (I'll get into this in the analysis). She also has a facial mole, as I think it would be interesting for her to have an "identification mark" but not be able to identify herself. She has ghost earrings as a mini reference to Georgie's podcast 'What the Ghost?' and Melonie hosting 'Ghost Hunt: UK.' She has a heart locket with flames on it as a nod to her having the ghost of Agnes Montague in her apartment in TMA. It has a photo of Jack in it. The eye tattoo on her wrist is a reminder of where she came from. It also serves as a reminder of the person was doomed the world (Jon) and tried to save it, as well as the person who doomed her eyes in order to prevent her involvement in the end of the world (Melonie).Her color scheme has bright red in it to make her feel out of place with the rest of the cast and to make it seem like she's trying to fit in. The gold is there because it can fit with both red and green, as a little reference to her being in both the TMA and TMAGP universes.

Analysis: Celia is such an interesting character and very well-written, in my opinion. She started out as the new hire, and hey-isn't-she-from-the -cult with little character involvement. She seemed like she was just there to be Sam's love interest. But oh, was she so much more. She dropped so many hints connecting TMA to TMAGP, and she was the one to push Sam into investing the Institute further. It started out with her investigating alternate universes and a little alchemy. Then, before we knew it, she was namedropping Jonathan Simms and Martin Blackwood. She roped Sam into investigating Basira. She encouraged Sam to go to Gerry's and Gertrude's flat. She brought her boyfriend to meet the woman who had tried to eat her in another universe. I would argue that Celia became one of the main motivators of the plot. After all, it was her plan to get Sam to the portal on Hilltop Road, where the Archivist ended up following them.

Her personality, in my opinion at least, is what would be expected as a "main love interest" - she's smart, she's funny, she's kind, she's understanding, etc etc. However, her motivations her subvert the expectations of her character. At first, we were led to believe that her main motivation was getting home to the TMA!verse. Then we were introduced to her son, Jack. Jack was clearly one of the primary focuses in her life, and he ended up being her primary motivator. She investigated the Institute, and she got Sam to trust her BECAUSE she wanted to stay in the TMAGP!verse with Jack. This led her to take the most drastic measure she has taken so far - throw Sam into the Eyepolcolypse. Remember that she doesn't know the Eyepolcolypse ended. As far as she knew, she was sending Sam into Hell. And yet, she was willing to do it. Even though it would probably kill him. Even though she really liked him. She had to stay with her son. Although Celia said that Sam fell into the portal while protecting her from the Archivist, I theorize that Celia pushed him. Not only was she planning on getting him into that portal one way or another, but she just relived a traumatic experience (via her statement) and was in a dangerous situation (with the Archivist there) leading to a lot of adrenaline and quick, rash decisions. She had to survive, and Jack had to survive. Sam was the one who could help her do that, but only by going into the portal. This is not to say that she's not remorseful, as she clearly is when Alice finds her, bur it's what she had to do to survive. I think she told Alice that he fell with the Archivist to protect not only herself and her relationship with Alice but to protect Alice's image of Sam. He went heroically and not betrayed by someone her loved and cared about, doing something Alice warned him was dangerous.

I think Celia is going to get a lot more development in S2. Here are my theories for that:

1) The guilt is going to eat her up.

Even if she didn't actively push Sam in, she still brought him to the place of his doom. Hell, as far as she knows, she brought him to his death in a hellscape. He was gone because of her. I think this is going to lead to some good conversations between her and Alice about Sam and feeling guilty. Alice couldn't protect him, and Celia plotted to harm him, or at least encouraged him to do dangerous things and brought him to the place he got hurt.

2) The portal is going to demand more.

Like when Jon started feeding from fear, I think the portal is going to demand more from her. She is going to have to feed it more and more sacrifices. I think it would also be interesting if she started Becoming, in a cross between the janitor on Hilltop Road and the Distortion. She slowly becomes a vessel for the portal and, by extension, the fears. As her her grows, it becomes wavey, as if moving on its own with a slight natural glow (almost like Celestia from MLP). Green seeps into her eyes, and they take on a glow. Her skin becomes shiny, and her skin maluble. As she is marked, the fears leave a little relic. Maybe she's attacked by worms and has a scar for the Corruption. Maybe after an encounter with the Buried, her lungs have a little water in them. Maybe she has slightly longer fingers after she encounters the Spiral. I think this could be such a fun concept, especially if you parallel her with Jon! Jon was the person who knew too little too late and brought the Fears upon the world and became their vessel. Celia would be the person who knew it all, lived through it even, yet still brought the Fears upon the world and became their vessel.

3) She's going to continue to feed us information.

I think Celia is going to be vital to the plot from here on out. She is not only going to be feeding us, the Watchers, information and references to TMA, but she is going to help Alice and Gwen get information about what's going on in TMAGP!verse. She will be the bridge between TMA and TMAGP if you will.

I'm really excited to see more of Celia in S2! I'll hopefully be posting Teddy's design and analysis (his will be much shorter lol) soon!

[cult-of-the-eye]

it's interesting how we now in tmagp get glimpses of more sides of the story - alison leshi is insinuated to have replied to gordie, the police officer on the phone speaks to needles etc etc but in tma, the statements are pretty much just one person's account.