#toa crit

[percabeth4life]

What Apollo myths did he make up??

The primary one that makes me seethe is the myth where he bullied Harpocrates. That has absolutely no basis in mythology or cult worship, in fact from what I understand Harpocrates was sometimes considered one and the same as Apollo. Like- that was done solely to make Apollo look bad.

In addition he repeatedly twisted the myths of Apollo to frame him in the worst light possible.

[oversandalyzer]

Having read Secret Project 3, I started thinking about why SP3 works so well while The Burning Maze felt off.

The reason Yumis ending works so well is that her arc was about learning to live for herself. Had she died, her arc would have been unsatisfying bc she would have started and ended in the same place, sacrificing herself for everyone else. Her arc starts with her sacrificing everything for others. Her arc ends with her choosing to live for herself.

When it comes to Jason's death, it felt more like Yumi's fate ending with her noble sacrifice. He starts off a soldier. Sure, he tries exploring who he is for a bit (through the lens of greek or roman), but post break up, he falls about and falls back on being a soldier. He dies as a soldier fighting for what is right. He is remembered as a hero.

Sure, Jason fought fights, but the one that mattered to him was ignored. No one cares about his struggle to find himself. No one cares about the person underneath the mask. If they do, they don't get any screen time to mourn him properly. Jason is turned into a martyr for that which he tried to avoid and leave. The tragedy isn't that he died. It is never that he never got to live. For me, that's the most unsatisfying part of it all. Even to his author, his self exploration was something easily dismissed. No one mourned who he could be. They had to mourn the only role he was allowed to take.

While his death is a pivotal moment in the series. While Apollo's grief is tangible. It still feels like it misses the mark in terms of what the real tragedy was and thus fails to make it a fulfilling character end.

[rosesradio]

so i am officially 206 of 361 pages into the first trials of Apollo book (i know i said I’ve been trying to get through the series for months but—)

i don’t think i’m enjoying it

there’s a couple reasons why off the top of my head:

1.) my what-is-probably adhd & other mental health issues make it hard for me to focus on reading (audiobooks help, but not always). gifted kid to smooth brain i fear 🧍

2.) the pacing feels very slow. usually atp in a pjo book they’d be one-third through a quest by now, but it feels like they’re just getting started and it’s fluffed up for word count (same Richard same)

3.) i’m not in the target audience for these books anymore. it’s true, it’s unfortunate, but i am 20 and can simply no longer process these books the same way i did when i was 13. i can still reread my old favorites (i Digested the lost hero last year), but it’s from a different angle that isn’t quite the same

4.) i don’t necessarily like any of these characters—and the ones i do like feel distant from their og character and/or are put into ships that i really don’t like. one of the reasons i reread the lost hero—and why i was able to get through it so quickly—was that I loved the characters. That’s why i’m in the pjo fandom. But while apollos narration is fun, i’m just not a fan of the other characters here (and it will only get worse with the reintroduction of Caleo 😐)

5.) the plot feels convoluted/stretchy/tired. I know, nice words coming from me considering my fics and their opposite-of-the-scale stupidity, but let me have this (lmao). not only is the five-book-end-of-the-world-quests thing tired for this third series, but it just feels weird to bring back things (the labyrinth and the grove of dodona) previously established as being destroyed with no explanation because of The Plot.

That’s all i can think of right now, ofc no offense if you like this book/series, i wish i was enjoying it more. I think i’ll still try to get through it in the hope that it’ll grow on me, but i’m not that hopeful unfortunately

[tanhua]

I started reading trials of apollo and I think I understand some of the frustration towards it from ppl who love Nico. So much wasted potential, such strange characterisation choices. It doesn’t feel like him. A six month gap is not enough for him to change so drastically. RR’s cheesy, jokey romance does not work when we don’t see genuine emotional development between the two.

Look, even if we ignore all of that, just tell me why you decided to write him out of the final battle in book 1 and have PERCY, who was supposed to be off minding his own business keeping himself safe come in and save the day. Almost as if he’s taking the easy way out of writing a character he’s familiar with than actually putting in the work of using a beloved but challenging character. Understandable, but it’s still disappointing. Like you threw us a bone of “nico’s gay” and “he has a boyfriend” and expected us to be satisfied with it. Please. Respect us. Respect your characters.

[helpallthenamesaretakenblog]

i feel like the paparazzi should have had a bigger role in hoo. i mean since piper was the daughter of one of the most biggest actors in hollywood and percy is one of the america's most wanted, both of them on a suspicious cruise ship with some other mysterious people causing random chaos everywhere should have caused a little bit of hysteria among the media.

for one, i feel like it would add a lot of humour and chaos. imagine every dinner or lunch scene on the argo II starting with a funny update of what the newspaper has to say about their new globetrotting adventure. imagine the paparazzi reminding percy more about his life ("mr. jackson, are you going to explode another monument?!" "bestie what r you talking about?"). imagine every fight scene being interrupted by people asking questions.

but imagine the angst potential too. imagine the paparazzi affecting piper's arc of figuring herself out. and the additional pressure she feels to maintain this relationship with jason. imagine percy and annabeth falling into tartarus because the flashing lights prevented the rest of the seven from getting to them on time. imagine all the mental breakdowns on camera. imagine them worrying that sally and grover would see everything on tv.

[believesinfairydust]

“i’m disappointed in ricks portrayal of certain minority characters and think he could’ve done way better” and “i love the riordanverse it’s my favorite series” are two statements that can both be true for you

[once-upon-an-animation]

I find it absolutely hilarious that after the Lotus Casino episode, we all complained that the trio having every trap and trick figured out on arrival was sucking the fun and suspense out of every scene…

…only for Episode 7 to literally begin with Percy explaining to everyone that he knows who Procrustes is and knows what his trick is in the first 30 seconds.

I literally bust out laughing.

Richard Riordan, I don’t know what you have against letting your 12 yr. old characters get deceived by something once in a while, but man, you need to let that hurt go and allow your 12 yr. old characters to get deceived by something once in a while. I don’t care how smart you want them to look; them literally knowing everything ahead of time is not nearly as much fun!

[frogdisco2021]

How much better would it have been if instead of saying "shut up emo nerd no one ever pushed you away, you imagined all the rejection" Will said something like "listen, those people are judgemental jerks, but there are people here who want to be your friend! *I* want to be your friend, if you'll let me! There are people here who would be happy to see you stay, myself included!"

Cause him saying that no one ever pushed Nico away is literally just not true, we see from other characters perspectives that they see Nico as weird and untrustworthy. He has no cabin to stay in before the Last Olympian and many people are disturbed by the sheer fact that a child of Hades is walking around. There's literally a scene where the seven, including Jason who later becomes one of Nico's closest friends after he begins to understand him better, debate on leaving him to suffocate to death alone in a jar. For real I don't know how it was seen as a good idea to make Will borderline gaslight Nico and have that be seen as like....tough love??? What Nico needed to hear???

Isn't a better explanation that Nico WAS rejected by some people at camp, but there were others (including Will) who tried to befriend him but Nico always thought they were just trying to mock him so he'd respond by being mean aka "pushing himself away"? That's a really common thing with kids who are bullied or feel rejected, if someone is suddenly nice to you, you don't trust it. You think they're just trying to get close to you so they can make fun of you.

It would be especially fitting since Nico along with all half-bloods have ADHD, the fact that ADHD also often comes with rejection sensitive dysphoria could've been leaned into. Nico WAS rejected, and because of that, any time someone would make a legitimate attempt at befriending him he'd push them away. That actually makes sense and validates the feelings of the most depressed and isolated character in the series instead of turning it into him just imagining the years of people acting like he has the plague.

[stillcarmine]

Ya know, given that RR forgets his own canon from time to time, maybe the reason Nico was Like That about Leo in ToA, i.e. obsessed, was because there was a draft of HoO where they actually were friends

(I still hate the punch line, fuck the punch line)

[what-shitfuckery-is-this-ew]

A Critique of Riordan's: Neurodivergency

tldr: Rick made ADHD and dyslexia superpowers in the books which fit the time he wrote the books, but it's not accepted now cause it diminishes neurodivergent struggle. At the same time he made autism coded characters the 'annoying' ones and had a very racist thing of having the only neurotypical be Frank.

He tried to fix it in the show. It worked for about 3 seconds.

TW: Ableism, Autism speaks mention, r slur, anti-schizo stuff.

This paragraph is useless so don't read if you don't want to: Sitting in my drafts are 3 different 'A critique of Riordan's' posts i made as i tried to redo my full critique of the Riordanverse with a little more positive feedback and a little less Rick Riordan is the devil spawn. I have decided to not do it in order because because i watched the show and i noticed some things which were iffy and others which were great. So yeah neurodivergency first. Enjoy and think Critically.

Books

Research and Diversity

The books were written in the early 2000s for Rick's son who has ADHD and dyslexia

As a result, it takes on a very "your ADHD and dyslexia is a superpower" message which were popular during the time, but we recognise now has delegitimised neurodivergent struggles

Also as a result, the books were very focused on his son's symptoms, and represented ADHD as a monolith which quickly turned into stereotypes (e.g jumpy, impatient and fast reflexes becoming the connecting feature of half-bloods)

It got so unresearched that at one point he said:

He also talks about coffee in a similar way, despite sugar and coffee not making us more hyperactive and instead making us sleepy. Unless all the scientists and people with ADHD are wrong i really don't know this works.

and also said this: "Leo was extremely ADHD even by demigod standards" Like what

But the worst part about the PJO books was that the neurodivergency was limited to the first book. Percy's ADHD and dyslexia magically vanish and honestly it's only really brought back up in HOO every now and then (not very well might i add)

Ways he could have improved:

He could have given other characters, like Annabeth, more diverse symptoms of ADHD. It wasn't that hard, For Annabeth recognise that she as a 'gifted kid' is more likely to have undiagnosed and so have to face the issues related to being undiagnosed and/or being both a gifted kid and having ADHD, and then also give her more symptoms common to girls like being really chatty or frequently daydreaming.

Continuing having ADHD (and dyslexia) as constant parts of the novels rather than throwaway lines. Build it into the characters actions and persona rather than add it on like an accessory

Research. Never stop researching. Always reach out to people with the disorders and ask them to help. Writing is nothing without research.

Get sensitivity readers

Grammar

This is really minor, but he keeps say ____ was ADHD, and like gramattically that's a no. I am not a disorder i am a person with a disorder . Note for autism, the prefered grammer is Autistic person (aka turn into adjective and describe, something we can't do with ADHD)

Nico and Leo

Making Leo and Nico the 2 characters who were annoying and unlikeable (to everyone else not to fans) was really weird cause these 2 characters were the autistic coded ones.

NOTE: I did see a post explaining it better in the past, and i will link it when/if i find it again.

Tyson and the R Slur

I genuinely think he tried to make the r-slur scene show that it was bad, but the way Percy reacted to it wasn't quite right. Especially for childrens books these things need to be really clear. So it was good to make a bad bully character who was hated say it, but he could have made it better by skipping Percy saying "He’s not r*tarded" and go straight to "I had to try really, really hard not to punch Sloan the face."

The scene was ok, it could have been better, but again these were written in the 2000s, we have to acknowledge that.

Percy and School

Now this is interesting because this is more recent. Percy tried really hard in school and was smart, it was part of his characterisation. But he never did well in school, because that's how his disability affected him (especially since it was the American school system which we all know is shit and even more shit for people with learning disabilities).

The problem stems from TSATS, where Percy is made out to skip school, and not try at all (feeds into people with ADHD do bad cause they don't try/are lazy)

credits to @aroaceleovaldez

Racism: Frank Zhang

Frank Zhang the only Asian member of the 7 has no form of neurodivergency, despite the rest of them all having. It must be a just coincidence that there's a stereotype that asians are really smart and good at maths and the fact that the rest of the Romans have dyscalculia/s.

It's not weird at all that the character instead has lactose intolerance, which is really common in East Asia unlike dyslexia, ADHD or dyscalculia, which has such a low rate of diagnosis because there is a large stigma behind the disorders and because white people don't think Asians can have learning disabilities/s. No not weird at all that the dude is described with symptoms of dyspraxia but Rick refuses to recognise he is not neurotypical/s

I'm stepping out of sarcasm speak to remind you that Asians with learning disabilities are significantly less likely to get diagnosed with anything because:

because their parents won't let them until they have no other choice (glares at my parents) because there's a massive stigma behind intellectual/learning/development disorders in these communities

When we do try to get diagnosed our claims are diminished because of racist stereotypes and the belief that booksmarts/giftedness = no learning disability. It means most psychologists and psychiatrists (who are usually white) think that all Asians are smart so they don't ever have any form of neurodivergency and we're left to struggle.

Schizo Rep

Octavian. Villain. Schizo. Again.

Do i even need to explain this?

Show

Not actually a specific disorder - Percy just has a learning disability

Interestly Percy's dyslexia is just never talked about, And even his ADHD is never mentioned by name. He's got a random learning disorder which isn't specified. At first i assumed it was still ADHD cause the books, but watching more, you realise they aren't actually focusing on what learning disorder he has and what he has to deal with as a result of that. It's just a generic learning disorder.

Which is weird because learning disorders are all different and we all face different things, even with the same disorder. So placing all learning disorders in the same group? not good. Don't know what i expected from disney, but it wasn't this.

Autism Speaks

So the show tried to acknowledge that Percy was constantly told he was special and heroic when he really wanted to have help for his issues and for people to recognise that he has problems and those are bad. It also represented less stereotypical adhd symptoms (though whether that's because the disorder is no longer adhd or whether they wanted more inattentive symptoms to be present, we'll never know)

but then it went ahead and used a broken puzzle metaphor for his neurodivergency?

Puzzle piece metaphors when talking about any form of neurodivergency are a no go because the creators of the metaphor literally want Autistic people dead.

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE AUTISM, WE ARE NOT ALLIES TO THE AUTISM COMMUNITY IF WE USE THE LANGUAGE AUTISM SPEAKS CREATED

Not only that but a broken puzzle is not a good way to represent us anyways because NEURODIVERGENTS AREN'T BROKEN.

[ssavinggrace]

gonna laugh my non existent balls off if Grover guesses clarisse is the lightning Thief in tomorrow's episode.

it would make sense if he guessed her SOLEY BECAUSE OF HOW ARES SAID HE HATES KIDS (HIS OWN INCLUDED) AND FOR SOMEONE TO STEAL THE BOLT THEY NEEDED TO BE SLIP AWAY AND NOT MISSED. WHO COULD THAT BE? CLARISSE.

[helpallthenamesaretakenblog]

In PJO, the main antagonist's primary villainous motivation was the injustice of the toxic cycle that was repeating itself through centuries. the same cycle of neglectful parents, and kids that tried too hard to please them, when they never cared, only putting the innocent kid in harm. the main antagonist wanted to rebel against this vicious cycle after his own traumatic experiences in the system.

In HOO, the main antagonist's primary villainous motivation was the fact that she couldnt wake up but she wanted to.

Both can be equally relatable, in different circumstances. One arc takes place as you mature in life, another takes place on Monday morning

[wierdshenanigans]

Hey can anybody tell me what they did to Gabe in the tv show became did they petrify him with Medusa's head and if they didn't....Then why didn't they.

[once-upon-an-animation]

There are many things that frustrate me with the writing of Annabeth in the PJO TV Show, but I think one thing that I haven’t seen people talk much about is the mini-arc of Percy needing to help Annabeth with her sense of fun/humanity.

Just so we’re clear, I absolutely hate this arc.

Prior to the show’s premiere, I believe there was a quote from Rick discussing new-ish things that we’d see in the show, and one of those things was Percy helping Annabeth “tap into her humanity”. I can’t find the exact quote, but it should be on the series update Twitter account if you search it.

When I first read this quote, I wasn’t exactly sure what it meant, but I thought maybe we’d get an expansion of the theme of forgiveness that we got in the original books, or maybe we’d get an arc about Annabeth’s pride and how that gets in the way of her relationships with others. Or maybe they’d try and break down the ways in which Annabeth helps to uphold the gods’ ways of doing things, and align her more with the mortal point of view (which they essentially did, but not the overall point).

What I certainly wasn’t expecting was for them to strip Annabeth of most, if not, all of her smaller/softer traits, and give her this unusually stoic and stiff personality, where she suddenly has no familiarity with casual aspects of the mortal world (movies, Disney world, common idioms), and needs Percy to introduce these concepts to her in an effort to “unlock” her humanity.

What.

The.

Fuck.

Words cannot emphasize enough how much I despise this arc. Not only is it entirely nonsensical for Annabeth not to be familiar with these things (she was with her dad at least until the age of 7 and she goes to a camp full of other children who are regularly in contact with the mortal world; do you seriously expect me to believe that at no point in her 12 years of life, she never saw a single film, heard of Disneyworld, or heard common idioms and slang terms from her camp-mates? Seriously???)

But ALSO!

Book!Annabeth had PLENTY of humanity to go around! Even with her pride and initial coldness towards Percy, she plays hackeysack with him and Grover on the first day of their quest! She has a cute silly crush/admiration/infatuation on Luke. She nerds out big time over the St. Louis Arch! She’s the first to steal clothing from Waterland! She screams and cries when she encounters the mechanical spiders! She has an expression of sadness when she shares her backstory about Thalia and Luke! She gets lost in her little construction game at the Lotus, so much so that Percy has to use her phobia to pull her out of the trance! She grabs Percy’s hand when they first enter the Underworld because she’s scared! She tears up when it’s time to leave Cerberus!

And you stripped her of all these things, because you’re so desperate to overemphasize the Percabeth romance, and you felt that it was absolutely necessary to have Percy educate Annabeth on “unlocking humanity”??? Why!!!!

Not only did Book!Percy help Annabeth discuss things about bad parents and approaching forgiveness, but Book!Percy already had something important to offer Annabeth: loyalty, trustworthiness, and reliability. You didn’t need to take away her already-present traits and wits to convince us that Percy was the type of person she needed in her life, because we can already see what he offers her in the books. So why oh why did you feel the need to give us the silly “tap into your humanity” arc? Why did you turn her personality into something that it wasn’t? Why did you take away her depth just so her character could better serve Percabeth?

I don’t even necessarily agree with the criticism that this version of Annabeth feels like it prioritizes Percabeth more, but I can see why people made that complaint. Y’all took away so much of what made this character endearing, because you felt like it was a much bigger priority to have Percy help her unlock humanity than to let her be human prior to meeting him and outside of him. Not only does her personality get shafted, but her relationships with other people get shafted too! Her interactions with Luke are affection-less, she sent Grover off on his own in the Lotus so she could go off with Percy, and I don’t even think that she and Chiron interacted once this season; I don’t even think she mentioned the part about her calling him to come pick her up after she attempted living at home again!

But don’t worry; we’ll get plenty of scenes doubling down and tripling down on how Percy is the center of her world now! Yay!

[drksanctuary]

You know, for someone so bad at writing characters who are gay for Nico (Will) Riordan is pretty good at writing characters who are gay for Nico (Jason and Apollo)

🤔

[winters0689]

The PJO show is over, and while I enjoyed it, there are definitely some flaws (mainly the pacing) so all I’m saying is that they better do my boy Apollo/Lester justice!

He is an extremely complicated character. He thinks himself as selfish when a majority of his actions are selfless (yes he is selfish but he does sometimes comment on his selflessness but he does struggle with self deprecation) and his redemption arc is such an amazing one to read! I don’t want them to tone down anything!

Same goes for Meg! I understand why they had to tone down Gabe Ugliano (even though his assholery is a huge aspect of the first novel and the fact that he physically abused Sally and Percy are something that shouldn’t be brushed over) but with Meg, Nero being abusive to her is a core aspect of her character! Her whole character arc is overcoming that, and she does, to the point that she stands up to him! I understand that it’s Disney, but I don’t want them to tame down Nero like they did with Gabe.

I also don’t want them toning down the themes in the books, like Apollo learning to acknowledge how his cruelty and indifference and learning and vowing to become a better person, to be a better God, or (as I mentioned above) Meg acknowledging that Nero and The Beast are the same and gaining the strength to challenge him in the final book!

I also don’t want them toning down the violence, and I sure as heck don’t want them removing the complex relationship Apollo has with the three Triumvirate members, mostly with Commodus (I also wouldn’t mind if they added some more Copollo flashbacks or more scenes with Apollo and Commodus in the present day) and I want them to show Caligula’s and Commodus’s and Nero’s cruelty! I don’t want them to tone stuff down because the books sometimes go to dark places.

If they are to do the TOA series, I want them to do justice to them. Trials Of Apollo is my favorite RRverse series (I do love the PJO series but TOA is SO GOOD) and I want my favorite characters done justice. I hope they fix the pacing issues and (if it does get to be a TV show) do the TOA book series justice.