#toh fandom critical

[imsosocold]

[xxlemon-chanxx]

Important. PLEASE READ!!

For those of you who may not know, which I suspect is probably most of you, I had an interaction with a pro/comship blog (@toh-proship-positivity) about three weeks ago that ended in them accusing a fellow artist, a-magpie-in-gravesfield, of extremely heinous things. I originally was not going to respond to them simply because I didn't want to be bothered with such drama during the holidays. Still, these claims irritated me because, even just from my conversations with this blog and witnessing their behavior firsthand, I knew their claims were likely untrue or, at the very least, exaggerations. I am happy to announce that my intuition was correct and that the claims made about Magpie WERE NOT TRUE.

Several people approached me regarding this, and I also sought a few individuals out myself to look for answers. They provided ample proof, including screenshots, receipts, and conversations between the accuser and the accused, that prove without a shadow of a doubt in my mind that Magpie is innocent of all claims levied against him.

I, along with the help of a few others, gathered as much information as I could find, organized it, and created a master list of evidence to combat every accusation. I am going to share the folder that holds the drama overview as well as every document that was used as an external link. Here are the links to the folder and overview, respectively.

This folder with all related documents will also be downloadable as a zip file on Dropbox to anyone who wishes to have a copy for themself. DM me asking for the download link, and I will provide it to you.

This is not meant to be an attack on the person who levied the claims against Magpie, and this is NOT a call to harassment. This needs to be put out into the open so that this drama inside the Wittebane community can cease.

Here is a direct message from Magpie regarding the situation:

"I just wanted to clarify that I had no hand in making the document itself. I was approached by multiple people asking for my side of the evidence / answering questions about the timeline of things / etc. I myself never look at Horse's posts because I don't want to give any of my time to things like this (and tbh I thought they would have stopped by now). Please don't message me about this. This has been going on for over a year now, and I don't want to focus on negativity. I have already provided a lot of information to the people who made this doc. I also DO NOT condone any kind of harassment towards anyone, including anyone mentioned in this document. I did not ask for this document to be made (actually, for a long time I actively discouraged people from doing it because I thought it wasn't necessary), but because multiple slanderous accusations that included my name were recently brought up to me by people I had never interacted with before as well as friends, and Horse does not seem to have stopped, I figured I would provide my side of things to people who asked as to give answers to anyone who might have heard of this situation. This document was in no way meant to encourage bullying of any kind. Please stay safe everyone!"

[nova-streyart]

Just saw that an artist I admired on here was driven to delete their TOH art because of toxic people and I just wanted to say this:

If you are a TOH stan (I'm hesitant to use the word 'fan') who harasses people because they like Belos in any way, go fuck yourself.

You do NOT have the right to dox, send death threats, harass, demean, or otherwise be an asshole to people because they like a character you don't.

Belos is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER for fuck's sake. It's OK to find him attractive. It's OK to like him as a villain. It's OK to like him as a character in general. It's OK to write fanfic about him, to draw fanart of him, to make AUs where he's a better person. And it's even OK if you relate to him at all, or if you sympathize with him at all for his backstory (I mean, dude grew up an impoverished orphan ffs). None of these things make you a bad person.

There are FAR worse villains out there that don't get anywhere NEAR the same levels of vitriol from their respective fandoms if you so much as express an inkling of interest in them.

If you're a TOH stan who's thinking of harassing me next, just know that I refuse to put up with your bullshit.

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

Are you a horrible person for sympathizing with Belos a little and maybe wanting for him to get a redemption in like a well written au (I know it's dang near impossible in canon) because you like him as a villain and maybe you think he's attractive and you like him like him a lot. This is cringe, I know.

Fandom has this horrific trend of equating the type of media you enjoy/the characters you like to morality. No, you are not a terrible person for sympathizing with the main villain, you are not a terrible person for wishing things had been different.

You cannot condone the actions of a fictional character because they are just tools to tell a story. What makes you a terrible person is harassing real people for liking a fictional character.

Are people terrible for dressing up as Darth Vader or the Joker despite all of the destruction and countless lives they have taken? Is Disney evil for hiring actors to dress as Gaston and having them entertain children?

You know how many fan fics/fan art exist showing Anakin as a good dad to Luke and Leia? It's normal to sympathize with villains because it shows empathy and that the story impacted you in a way that made you see the inherent tragedy and how it could have been avoided.

It's also okay to just enjoy villains being villains because of their design, acting, campiness, or because they're really engaging. There's a reason Disney villains are so popular; they provide a cathartic release where people can enjoy an evil character because it's all fiction. It has no effect on the real world.

Modern fandom has this puritanical streak dressed in social justice language when at its heart, it's just bullying (and it seems to be nearly always kids' shows fandoms, I don't see this mindset in media aimed at adults).

The fact that you can't enjoy a goddamn fictional character without questioning your own morality is wicked and anyone who makes you feel that way is an asshole.

Go and sympathize with the Evil Puritan. Write that AU fic. Your favorite shows and characters are supposed to bring you joy. Be cringe. Be free.

[mynamejers]

[theprinceandthewitch]

I am BEGGING people to do research on what a trauma bond actually is so you can stop applying this to Luz's and Hunter's relationship. Please stop taking everything you read online at face value because people literally come online to lie about shit all the time.

A trauma bond is a cyclical pattern of abuse and positive reinforcement that forms between a victim and an abuser. And no, a bond formed between two victims of abuse because of a shared experience ISN'T a trauma bond.

Google Scholar and other academic research platforms, both online and offline, like libraries are your friends. If you got time to fuck around online, then you might as well use it to learn something new instead of parroting misinformation.

[asherisawkward]

Do you think the fandom has a holier than thou attitude?

The fandom is an absolute mess. A huge portion of the fandom is prone to going after anyone who likes the villains of the series and treating it like a personal attack. Like Huntlow? Don’t like Huntlow? Don’t like Lumity? People will go off on you and act as if you personally insulted them or said you supported something utterly outlandish.

And if you like Philip or any of the other villains of the series? It could be an absolute mess. You can get bullied, insulted, harassed, and degraded. People accuse you of supporting actual genocidal dictators or being a traitor to the LGBTQ or whatever marginalized group you fall into. People become obsessed with it and act like that determines your morality, when it absolutely doesn’t.

Similar stuff happens to people who disagree or critique the show on its flaws. You get threatened or insulted or doxxed. I mean, people in this fandom will tell others to kill themselves over works of fiction. It’s a disgusting mentality that what forms of writing, film, or characters you like impact your morality or your trustworthiness as a person. It’s modern day witch-hunting and another form of purity culture.

The show says, “Us weirdos have to stick together.”

The fandom basically says, “We stick together unless you say something I disagree with,” and that’s not okay.

[twilleansparks]

Omfg people are STILL trying to argue that Luz and Hunter are canonically siblings, even after WAD.. I am going to eat a lawnmower..

[divinemiracles]

I love how one of the essential themes of The Owl House was that everyone’s allowed to be a weirdo with their special interests and shouldn’t be judged but the fandom is so full of judgement and harassment.

[spells-potions-and-books]

A rant about the ToH fandom

If you're not interested jus scroll past this

I've been in the toh fandom for almost a year (I think) and ive met all kinds of people. I'm more alligned with Belos and Wittebane fans since its one of my problems with the show: the lack of backstory and wasted protential of Belos.

I entered a server centered around Belos and I had a lot of fun, they listened to me and I could share my ideas and drawings but there was a problem, they were really critical to the show.

That, in itself isnt a problem, the show has a lot of problems and I think its good that someone sees them and tells how one could improve them. But they had a problem with every single little thing with the show.

They often complained about everything, the jokes, the boiling isles, the characters, and everything. It arrived to the point that it was exhausted to read.

They said that most fandom "lacked critical skills" when they said that Luz appropiated witch culture and that she could be replaced with a generic male fantasy protagonist.

I know that the representation on the show isnt perfect and there are many things that could be improved but the way they say they feel like a bi latina character could be replace, is weird.

I dont have a problem with Belos fans until this server, because they are so centered in him that is so weird. Its okay if you like him, i do too but the fact that they believe he should be focused a lot more on the show to the point they dont even want to know anything about Luz.

Someone even said that they didnt like Luz older design because she looked like a boy and that didnt help that she could be replaced by a boy. I got into an argument with this person, and they failed to tell me why she could be replaced with a boy. Maybe the reason is that they dont like Luz and see her as replacable.

One time I asked how I could make Luz not to apropiate witch culture and they just said that it didnt matter because witches dont exist. Then why where they were crying about it!!!???

This people just lack any critical skills and they are just as bad as fans that refuse to acknowledge that the show has any problems. I would even say that they are worse because they nitpick every single thing about a show they dont even like.

I dont know if anyone is going to read this but if you did, please tell me your thoughts on this xd

[window-weather]

If I see one more fucking person say Hunter and Edric are siblings because of the ship tease in wad with Darius and Alador I’m going to commit a felony or something

What part about that scene confirmed that they were *canonically* dating. Like genuinely. What part about it.

Because all it was was a half blush from Darius after he freaked out about the sigils being removed and not even a hint of Alador reciprocating.

This fandom loves forcing their headcanons onto people and proceed to get mad when people don’t have the same ones or dare not like them.

[imsosocold]

I’ve seen a lot of  statements like “ Why couldn’t  Philip just accept he was wrong about things and settle down and embrace the Isles? So selfish 😔”   First of all,  people are underestimating how strong the affects of religious conditioning and propaganda are.  Unfortunately Caleb’s reaction and growth tends to be the rarity in those sort of situations, not Philip’s.  Second of all,  people are ignoring ( and even deligitimazing) any personal experiences Philip’s had with Isles, including potentially negative ones.  Even if Philip wasn’t a witch hunter and was the most moral and tempered of all beings, the Isles in non hospitable by nature and the residents there seem overall hostile to those without (strong) magic. And even without that, perhaps the environment and culture simply wouldn’t be for him regardless. (Also it’s like canon now the Titan hated him so). Third, for Philip to abandon his witch hunting beliefs and practices completely, he wouldn’t only have to grapple with the idea that he and Caleb were wrong and did horrible things for no good reason but he would also have to accept that the  system they were part of was wrong. That the systems before theirs were likely also wrong.  That those they looked up to were wrong, those they worked with were wrong, potential friends and lovers and maybe even their parents were wrong.  And by staying on the Isles, Philip would be letting those systems and ideologies and the sins caused by them continue without any challenge.  Plus, if their system  was wrong about witchcraft, what else was it wrong about?       Philip likely would have to leave portions of his religious beliefs behind asthey were strongly tied to witch-hunting. Obviously none of this is an excuse for Philip’s actions but I feel like a lot of complexity is being dismissed by people just because they don’t like Philip. The situation was way more than “ Philip was stupid and stubborn and selfish and that’s why he did bad things, Caleb’s just a naturally better person than him.”  Plus I feel like most people realistically, if taken to a place like the Isles in real life, would have a reaction more akin to Philip’s than Caleb’s.   Anyway, eat weed and smoke your food.           

[xxlemon-chanxx]

do you find it embarrassing a bunch of adults are fighting over this proship/antiship war over Belos of characters? A character from a CHILDREN'S show.

That's like asking me if I think it's stupid for people to bash character simps for liking a fictional evil character/villain. OF COURSE I think it's dumb lmao. People should be able to enjoy a piece of media the way they want to enjoy it, regardless of their age.

Like, I don't like interacting with most comship content because I don't like how a lot of creators romanticize or “woobify” the relationships they're trying to portray (those relationships are abusive/toxic and I don't like content where they're not portrayed as such), but at the end of the day, I recognize that that content just wasn't made for me, so I just hit “not interested” and move on. I'll only really have a problem with it if they do a poor job of keeping that sort of content out of reach of kids—like, say, not putting appropriate warnings on artwork and stories depicting that sort of thing, talking about those topics with minors (because that could accidentally give them the wrong idea about what relationships SHOULD be normalized irl), etc.

But at the same time, I do understand being made uncomfortable by that content to the point of choosing to block the person creating it, even if they don’t hate the person they're blocking. People’s internet experience is curated by them. If they don't want to see someone talking about their favorite media in a way that makes them upset, they have every right to block them to make sure that content doesn't show up on their feed.

I only think it turns into a problem when those people go into the spaces of those who make the content they don't like and begin harassing them for said content, or begin making their own content that's basically like “any depictions of x, y, z are bad, and anyone who makes content like that is a bad person.”

THAT’S when it turns stupid.

If you're gonna hate somebody, at least have a good reason for it instead of “the way they choose to like fiction gives me the yucks.”

Like, hate someone for creeping on kids, or for being racist, or supporting genocide, or just being an overall sack of shit, now THOSE are valid reasons for hating someone.

[toh-rarepairs]

Toxic fans sincerely telling me to kms day after day is really taking a toll. One even had the audacity to say “it’s not like you’ll do it” when I called them out on it. I’m so fucking mad and sad. Fandom is supposed to be fun. Fandom is a coping mechanism. These fucking assholes have no grip on reality, or the consequences of what they say. ALL BECAUSE IM A LUNTER SHIPPER.

[mentalmeles]

You’re a bully with a fragile ego. Nobody “deserves” harassment. That’s not justice. Take them to court or let the actual person being slandered by them stand up. Stupid mob bullying the mentally ill. You’re all sick for this. Nobody gave a hoot about this Horse person until you bullies said anything.

Tell me you haven't read the document without actually telling me you haven't read the document. Or the post for that matter.

In all seriousness, I didn't realize asking for substantial pieces of evidence for claims that could ruin someone else's career could be qualified as 'harassment.' If you took the time to read the document, you'd find that it's not a call to harass Horse/Griff, but a timeline of all the times they have gone out of their way to ruin Magpie's reputation for over a year now--whether it be in their friend circle, strangers in the fandom, or to Magpie's actual customers. All the while they provide nothing to back any of their claims, even saying that they'll take 'anything' so long as it aids them in their goal of ruining Magpie's career. That's literally something Horse said, by the way. There's a screenshot of it in the document.

But, in some way, I understand you. If you yourself aren't Horse, then you're a friend of theirs. And it can be so hard to admit to yourself that your friend isn't who they said they were. I'm kind of going through that at the moment myself... Which is why I implore you--read the document. If not to help clear Magpie's name in your mind, then read it for yourself. You and everyone else that is affiliated with Horse deserves to know the truth.

I'm going to turn off anon now, but if you'd like to have a civil conversation with me, please feel free to send me another message and we can talk privately.

[flower-boi16]

Why I LOATHE The "Amity Hates Hunter" Headcanon

In the TOH fandom, there's a certain headcanon that's been floating around in the community. You've probably seen a fan comic or two about and even an animatic video, that being, the "Amity hates Hunter" headcanon. After analyzing the show further and gaining a better appreciation for it, I can safely say that this headcanon absolutely sucks. Now there's nothing wrong with people having headcanons or anything, you can headcanon whatever the hell you want, but I really feel that this headcanon in particular spreads a really bad misconception about Amity and Hunter's relationship and kind of misses the thing the show is going for. So in this post, I'm going to analyze this headcanon and why it just. Does not work.

1. What Is The Premise of The Headcanon?

Before I dissect this headcanon let's first establish what this headcanon is about. Basically, the premise of the headcanon is that Amity doesn't fully trust Hunter after his redemption since she hasn't forgotten about the time he threatened Luz's life so he could get the titan blood key from her, and so she still dislikes him and hasn't bought his change yet. She would be more skeptical of him, basically.

Alright, so now we've established what the headcanon is based on, let's now get into the real meat of why this headcanon doesn't work. I'm going to talk about Eclipse Lake, Any Sport in A Storm and Labyrinth Runners and analyze each episode in terms of how they demonstrate why Amity wouldn't hate Hunter.

2. Eclipse Lake

Eclipse Lake seems to be an episode that is heavily misunderstood by the "Amity hates Hunter" crowd to me, as some people seem to forget certain things about Amity and Hunter's relationship here and ONLY focus on Hunter threatening Luz to Amity's face. This is where I bring up my first major point here; that being, Amity relates to Hunter. Amity and Hunter are directly meant to be parallels to each other, and Eclipse Lake does pretty clearly show that. Hunter throughout the whole episode basically does a "you and me are not so different" thing with Amity, with how they both have to live up to the standards of the people they care about and are afraid of disappointing them, and eventually, when Amity sees Hunter literally dig his own grave, Amity realizes that he is right, they are both kids held up to high standards by their shitty parents that they are afraid of not meeting.

And THIS is what people often miss here; Amity relates to Hunter. She's been in the same position and circumstances as him - after all, she knows exactly what it's like to have shitty parents, so she would empathize with him given their similar circumstances. And this could also mean that Amity would realize that Hunter, in some way, is being abused by Belos - which again, she would empathize with given she used to be in similar circumstances to him. She wouldn't hate Hunter, she would empathize with him because she sees herself in him, she knows what it's like to be in his position, to have parents who force you under pressure to meet high standards that you may struggle to meet.

Then we get to the moment that kickstarts this headcanon - Amity giving Hunter a hand in friendship, only for Hunter to betray her trust after he notices the titan blood key, and then threatens Luz's life in front of Amity so she could give him the titan blood key. After that, Hunter flies away with Amity having a disappointed expression on her face while she looks at him. I think some people tend to misunderstand this moment too - now, do I think Amity would trust Hunter after this? Not exactly, but that's until we get to...

3. Any Sport in A Storm & Labyrinth Runners

I'm gonna cover Any Sport in A Storm quickly since there isn't much to say, but it and Labyrinth Runners support my second major argument here; Amity doesn't have a reason to hold Hunter's past actions against him anymore. In Any Sport in A Storm, Hunter disobeys a command he was given by Darius just so he could protect his friends and fix his mistake, and at the end of the episode Willow shows Luz and Amity a group picture of the emerald entrails, ofc they see Hunter in the pic and they gasp and the episode just kinda ends after that.

Now, after Eclipse Lake, it is correct to assume that Amity wouldn't trust Hunter, though she could still heavily see herself in him and relate to his situation. But now in Any Sport, Amity is just given the information that Hunter disobeyed an order he was given and went out of his way to protect his friends, we don't know the exact conversation that happened after that moment but it's still a sign to Amity that Hunter's making a turnaround. "But Hunter kidnapped Amity's friends!" Why yes, he did, but he also went out of his way to fix his mistake and again, disobeyed an order he was given which would have risked his position in the EC. I don't think the other characters, including Amity, wouldn't factor that in. So while Amity still wouldn't fully trust Hunter - she would still see some signs that he is making a turnaround.

Then comes Labyrinth Runners. Now, I want you to pay attention to what Hunter does in this episode, because it illustrates my point of why Amity wouldn't hold any of Hunter's past actions against him anymore. In Labyrinth Runners, he...

Saves Gus from Adrian

Helps save the school

Gives clear information on what's going to happen on the day of unity

I think what Hunter does in Labyrinth Runners does make up for his past actions, which keep in mind aren't the worst things characters in this show have done (Cough Cough Lilith kidnapping and almost killing Luz in her battle with Eda Cough Cough, Amity almost getting Luz dissected Cough Cough), and so it wouldn't be out of character for Amity to trust him, especially when he saved Gus, aka, one of Amity's friends. This combined with the past stuff I mentioned about how Amity sees herself and relates to Hunter AND how Amity could just see Hunter as someone who was just lied to and manipulated by Belos which, I'm pretty sure the whole hexsquad would see him like that, means that Amity doesn't have much of a reason to be an ass to Hunter.

He's fully proved he's trustworthy, the others trust him, and so would Amity. I think it's also worth pointing out that, I don't think Amity would blame Hunter for what he did in Eclipse Lake. She knows why he did what he did, and again, she's been in the same circumstances as he was; I don't think she would blame Hunter for being desperate to gain his abusive parent's approval to meet his expectations since she was in the same position too.

So, in conclusion, Amity wouldn't hold any of Hunter's past actions against him, she doesn't have much of a reason to do so, since now he's proven himself trustworthy. However, a lot of people tend to ignore all of the stuff I just mentioned, and they create fanworks where Amity threatens Hunter in some way, which leads to a certain thing about this headcanon that pisses me off...

4. It Makes Amity into an Asshole

I think this is my biggest issue with how the fandom often characterizes Amity and Hunter's relationship; Amity just becomes an unlikeable asshole in all fanworks that spread the "Amity hates Hunter" headcanon. I am not going to name any examples here because you've probably already seen at least one fan work portraying Amity this way. Fanworks like these tend to ignore all the stuff I previously said in the last two sections and have Amity be an asshole to Hunter, which actually VERY OOC for her.

As if these works try to portray Amity as some kind of girl boss who "Is so protective of her girlfriend and will murder anyone who tries to harm her!", which is fine until you factor in all the outside context, once you do, Amity doesn't come across as a protective girlfriend in these fan works, she comes across as an asshole bullying an abusive victim when she has NO REASON to. Amity isn't a girl boss in these fanworks, she has no reason to treat Hunter like this for the reasons I already mentioned, yet people ignore ALL OF THAT in favor of Amity threatening Hunter cuz it makes her "cool" I guess.

Amity would be the first person to understand Hunter's situation and why he did what he did - she's been in the same position as him, and now, when he's proven that he's trustworthy to her, why should she be an ass to him? Do you see why it's annoying how OOC Amity is made in these fanworks? Really, this headcanon should just be called "Amity bullies Hunter" because that's what it is, Amity being an asshole to an abuse victim when she has no reason for doing so. I don't mind the idea of Amity being a protective girlfriend for Luz, it makes sense for her character, but when it comes to Hunter the fandom flanderizes it to an absurd degree.

5. Conclusion

I could talk about this longer and mention how this headcanon was basically formed from nothing but avatar comparisons and nothing else but I haven't seen Avatar yet so I can't really comment on that. Besides this post getting long enough already (I saw when I've made far longer essays on the internet). In conclusion; Amity wouldn't hate Hunter. Not in the slightest. This idea thankfully is starting to become abandoned by the fandom with more people recognizing that it is just. Does not work. And while that's nice I still kinda thought it was time for someone to fully analyze why this headcanon does not work (and that person was me babeeeeeeeey). So uh ya....bye.