#totk theory post

[science-lings]

Totk Theory: The Sages, the Dragons, and the Zonai

Ever since botw I've been interested in where the champion's powers came from. With totk, that question was answered, or was it? Sure, each sage has an ancestor who had the same abilities, but both Dinraal and Farosh have corresponding powers to existing sages despite being draconified Zonai. (see the stiff white hair with glowing sections, long ears, and thick stubby eyelashes)

Rauru's stubby little horns are also pretty dragon-coded

But, how could that be? the Sages of Fire and Lightning aren't Zonai, and there are no more instances of repeating abilities. Except with Zelda inheriting her power over Light from Rauru, her Zonai ancestor. Despite looking nothing like a Zonai herself.

Rauru and Mineru were the last of the Zonai, or at least, the last 'pure' Zonai. Rauru and Sonia had to have a child to continue the royal like to the point where Zelda contained both of their kinds of magic. Who says that the Zonai of 'long long ago' didn't get friendly with the other races, most notably, the Gorons and the Gerudo.

This could also explain why there are a few notable Gerudo in the past with gray skin, a very uncommon trait to have. Perhaps that's why Ganondorf is even able to obtain and utilize the secret stone in the way that he has, because he's got Zonai blood, more than most of the sages, or at least the ones with useful magic. (let's be real, being able to turn yourself into a ghost wouldn't be the best power to have in a fight.)

Perhaps that's why Farosh flies the length of the Gerudo Highlands, getting as close as she dares to the desert that she may have once called home, and why Dinraal coasts by Death Mountain's foot. perhaps there was once a bloodline that carried the power of ice in Lanayru, maybe it stayed dormant in some sheikah inventor that incorporated their power into the sheikah slate. (good idea for an oc huh)

I just think it's odd that we're meant to believe that the Zonai just... died out. We're led to believe that they were godlike and mighty and full of magic, but also able to disappear without much explanation. But maybe they didn't die out, they just became a part of Hyrule, a part of her people. Maybe there weren't many of them to begin with, and they connected with the people around them. Leaving only Rauru and Mineru as the last of them left who could be considered fully Zonai.

This could also explain why the Heroes aspect looks so funky, bc they're part Zonai, part... something else, or many something else's, something with a lion tail that has the little poof on the end. The Ancient Hero is supposed to have existed long after the zonai (Rauru and Mineru) died off, in the time of the first calamity, but they're still very obviously closely related to the Zonai.

TLDR: Hyrule is absolutely full of people who would procreate with alien dragon people and it has some funky effects on their descendants.

also disclaimer: I don't mean to make the whole Zonai bloodline kind of thing sound so eugenics-y, I know the wording isn't perfect on this post but I'm also not sure how else to word it, so just know that I don't mean to offend anyone or sound weird when it comes to fantasy race intermixing. This is genuinely just a theory for fun and I don't want to sound rude to anyone.

[blueskittlesart]

just. little things. specifically right now it’s the fact that they even managed to narratively incorporate and retroactively explain the video game Instinct To Collect. like yeah you the player collect things that sparkle when you get close because you are Playing A Game but. think about it. link, fresh out of a hundred years of sleep with near-total amnesia, instantly notices and instinctively picks up edible plants and mushrooms throughout hyrule without really knowing why. and only later do we learn that he loved to cook. he knows what is and isn’t edible and what is worth collecting instinctively because he’s used those same ingredients thousands of times before. breath of the wild you are the only game that matters ever

[gingerdusk]

Holy moly I just beat all the shrines. PLEASE tell me you have theories cooking because I am losing my mind here 😭

Ancient Hero's Aspect theory time.

Look at this funky lil guy.

See this man?

Not a Zonai

Biologically, cannot be a Zonai, or Zonai-Hylian hybrid. There's a major feature of the Ancient Hero that gives it away, but let's start with the basics.

This is Rauru:

He has large ears covered in fur from the top of his head, golden horns, a third eye, and white hair with colored edges. His eyelashes are white, green, and gold, and the sclera of his eyes are white.

Proportionally, he's built more like a Zora than a human. His hips are low, with his torso the same size as his legs.

Let's look at Mineru and compare, to account for variation in Zonai physiology (the sample size is bad, but there's not much we can do about that):

Large, fur-covered ears, a third eye, white hair with colored edges. Her eyelashes are white, pink, and gold, so we can assume that some of these colors are from makeup, but her sclera are still white.

(Model ripped by WhiteMageSunny on DeviantArt)

Like Rauru, she has those weirdly proportioned hips and torso. No horns, though, so that could be a male Zonai thing, or just a him thing.

Bonus evidence, in lack of sample size, the dragons:

The three elemental dragons all have the same kind of hair as Rauru and Mineru, fluffy with spiked ends that have colored edges. And we know, from experience, that dragons keep the hair of their previous forms as their mane:

Now for our little scamp.

First off, his skin is gray-green. Not an indicator of itself, could just be a different fur color.

However, he also has:

Red, silky hair with no secondary color

Black sclera

No lashes

No horns

No third eye

Pointed ears on the sides of his head

We've established that the horns aren't a requirement, so that's also not a direct indicator. Maybe he's missing the third eye because that's a royalty-is-different trope. Maybe the red hair means he's half-Gerudo, and the ears are a byproduct of that. The black sclera is weird, but not entirely unforgivable. Zelda's done weirder (see Yeta and Yeto, or King Zora and Ruto).

(Model ripped by WhiteMageSunny on DeviantArt)

And now we get to the proportions. There's no strangely cinched waist like Mineru and Rauru have. The legs are proportional to the torso in a way that's almost human.

Still could be half-Hylian or Gerudo, right?

Wrong. Look closer.

That is a TAIL.

Neither Mineru nor Rauru have tails. But there's something even more damning here.

Mineru. Five toes. Plantigrade (on the floor) feet. Big toe to little toe, like a human.

Rauru. Five toes. Plantigrade feet. Big toe to little toe.

Hero's Aspect! Four toes! Two large middle toes! Cat toes!

Digitigrade (catlike, heel raised) feet! That spoke on the end of the sandal never touches the ground!

Where did the tail come from? The black sclera? The change in skeletal structure? The literal paws for feet?

This is not a Zonai. I'm calling it a Lomei, and I rest my case.

[mikey-hunter]

Why Age of Calamity Did That (And Why Age of Imprisonment Will Too)

So when Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity came out, there was a very vocal contingent of fans who were upset about a particular twist in its narrative.

Age of Imprisonment was just announced, with a hauntingly similar setup, and I'm seeing a number of fans talking as if the same twist won't happen this time, or at least saying they hope it doesn't. I just wanted to lay out the reason why it happened the first time, and why it almost certainly will again.

I'm going to be dropping unmarked spoilers for all three previous games in this trilogy that's soon to become a quadrilogy, by the way. I imagine most of the people speculating about Age of Imprisonment will already know them, but just to cover my bases, you can stop reading now if you're behind.

So, let's start at Age of Calamity's announcement.

We were told it would be "A story 100 Years before The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild," and told it would depict the battles against the Calamity not previously shown. Fans immediately started joking about already knowing how it ended, that this was a game that would end with most of the cast dying.

Then the demo came out. A Guardian the size of an ostrich egg woke up at the same time as Zelda awakening her powers, traveled back in time, and activated the Sheikah Towers early. Also, Link was a regular soldier and not the Hero who had been wielding the Master Sword since he was a pre-teen.

Surprisingly, a large portion of the fandom either failed or refused to see the twist coming at that point.

But the twist came all the same: in the full game, the time traveling egg guardian enables the four successors to the Champions from BotW to save them, Zelda awakens her powers before Link is killed, they band together to slay Calamity Ganon, and a happy ending is enjoyed by all. Including the Yiga Clan, who defected because reasons.

Some fans were very upset about this. They were promised a prequel, and seemed to think it would be a good idea. But the reason it wasn't is fairly obvious if you think about it.

For one thing: Warriors games are about the fanservice power fantasy. Playing as beloved characters and mowing down hundreds of cannon fodder enemies as easily as one mows a lawn.

For another: one of the playable characters in the original Hyrule Warriors on Wii U was Agitha from Twilight Princess. She was included purely because one of the developers was a fan of hers and argued for her inclusion. Koei-Tecmo's Hyrule Warriors team includes people who are big enough Zelda fans to have favorite minor NPCs.

Now, consider for a moment what a "canon" ending to Age of Calamity would have looked like. The Champions are dead. Link is dead. Zelda awakened her powers a moment too late, so she's going to go hold down Calamity Ganon while the Sheikah trio carry Link's body to the Shrine of Resurrection. They don't know how long it will take to work, or if it will even work at all, so the three of them agree to live separately and wait for him, so that even if the Yiga Clan finds and overcomes them, at least the other two will live on to pass Zelda's message on to Link.

In other words, you just paid full retail price for a beat'em up where all your favorite characters die, and have a completely separate game to go play for the story's actual resolution.

Maybe you, personally, actually wanted that, but would a casual Zelda fan who just got the game for Christmas have wanted it? Would a Dynasty Warriors fan trying the game out as a gateway to the Zelda series have been okay with being told they now have to buy another game in a completely different genre to get their closure?

To be frank, no. Age of Calamity didn't lead in to Breath of the Wild because that would have made for a bad product. Instead of watching the Champions die, we got to see them live, be happy, and interact with their successors. If you want to imagine the full details of their deaths and be sad about it, that's what fanfiction is for.

And now we have Age of Imprisonment on the way.

Tears of the Kingdom, much like Breath of the Wild, has a sequence of flashbacks to a distant past, that ends on a downer note of "Welp, we're boned, but all we can do is wait for Link to come sort it out."

Just like Age of Calamity, Age of Imprisonment purports to be a full depiction of these events...

But the events of the Dragon Tears are in even more dire need of an intervention from the present than the Memories were, entirely because of the cast.

Taking this reveal trailer at face value, we can expect eight characters: Zelda, Sonia, Rauru, Mineru, and the four Ancient Sages. By the end of the Dragon Tears as we saw them in Tears of the Kingdom...

Sonia is assassinated

Rauru gives his life to seal Ganon under the castle

Mineru succumbs to her injuries and begins haunting Zelda's tablet

Zelda essentially commits fantasy suicide, because as far as anyone in the narrative is aware, becoming a dragon destroys your sense of self and is irreversible.

The Sages live, but with how little TotK gave them to work with, AoI is going to have to characterize them from scratch.

That's a hard sell to anyone looking to buy a fun video game full of Zelda characters, and that's not the only problem with this roster: it's also small.

Not counting certain characters having multiple weapons, the original Hyrule Warriors launched with a roster of 13, and then three of the bosses were made playable in a patch.

Age of Calamity launched with 18.

If we're sticking entirely to the founding era with this game, we're following up a game that set sales records for the Warriors series with a piddly little roster that tells you at the end to go play a different game, with the surviving half of the roster being the faceless nobodies. Who's actually going to buy that beyond the LoZ die-hards who pitched a fit because not every returning NPC in Tears of the Kingdom greeted Link with a "Hey, I remember you!"?

It's quite clear, to me, that Age of Imprisonment is going to have another time travel twist, this time bringing in the modern Sages, as well as Link, probably Purah, and perhaps some others. (Paya? Tauro? Robbie? Josha? Kohga, for some reason? All possible, but Purah's the only supporting cast pick I'm confident in.)

If nothing else, the fact that Nintendo announced amiibo of the TotK Sages the same day as Age of Imprisonment seems more than coincidental.

[beyemar]

 My personal timeline of the Zelda Universe

[as well as answers to questions I suspect people will have about it]

[palmolli]

THE TWILI ARE SHEIKAHS!!!! (AT LEAST THEY USED TO BE)

Hey wall, I'm back. Did ya miss me? I feel like this has already been said, but i'm gonna go ahead and do this anyway because of free will and stuff. If this is common knowledge already, I might just tweak out.

The Yiga are said to be Sheikahs that broke away because the king back then feared their technological advances. Could the Twili be an earlier form of the Yiga?

Maybe a decent half of the Sheikah tribe wasn't a huge fan of the Skyloftians return onto the surface, and broke away into their own tribe to do dark magic and such, causing the interloper war in a fight for independence, or to take down Hylia's empire.

Like:

"Hey guys, we just got back from the sky, and we're gonna start a kingdom here. Hope you don't mind."

"We do mind."

Or

"Hey can you guys stop with the dark magic?"

"How about you guys stop breathing?"

Or

"Hey maybe don't take the Triforce?"

"What? Could you repeat that? Couldn't hear you inside this sick dark magic helmet I'm gonna use to steal the Triforce."

The Sheikah tribe is also referred to as "shadow folk" or somethin... and Impa in oot ends up as the sage of shadow, and in Hyrule Warriors, Midna takes the title of sage of shadow.

I have... physical evidence, though... it is INCREDIBLY WEAK. Sheikah and Twili both share the trait of red eyes, which, to my knowledge, isn't shared in any other race. Then again, the Twili appear to have severe jaundice. The orange hair is explainable since the Yiga have black hair. And oh my gods, I just realized that the Twili's color pallete is the same as actual twilight. Anyways.

This was just I thought I had. And have had. For a while. Thought I'd share... thanks for coming to my Ted talk and have nice day.

[ganondoodle]

with every thing i learn about what the directors of totk said in interviews it all just gets worse huh?

the thing about the shiekah tech just vanishing and nobody caring enough to look into it was already rough and now i learn they said that -after botw zelda wondered if hyrule as a kingdom was still needed but then totk happens- just sounds like she wondered if hyrule as a kingdom still needed to exist in the way it had been (which would be an interesting change for once and also make sense for her character) and then they took her back into the distant past with the super good guy king of a godly race to teach her the lesson what her place is and that yes, their monarchy needed and good and really given to her by "gods" and what if big evil black man shows up again

i dont have the energy to get into it further but needed to say soemthing about it bc it keeps bothering me :(

[symmetrycrypt]

the only thing that can save Age of Imprisonment is if they make the bold and sexy move of making my original Evil Sonia theory come true

[mari3with3]

How the Zonai connect the The Legend of Zelda franchise (Theory)

In TotK we're explained that the kingdom of Hyrule was founded thanks to the union of the Hylian and Zonai tribes with the marriage of Rauru and Sonia. I've seen that a big part of the fandom thinks that this is not the true founding of Hyrule and that it's the creation of a new kingdom (since this has already happened before), but I think that it is the same Hyrule that we see in Minish Cap, Ocarina of Time, Twillight Princess, etc.

Why do I believe this? Because the Zonai existed during Skyward Sword and became extinct before Minish Cap.

1°- The Zonai in Skyward Sword

Throughout Skyward Sword, in the surface we can see ruins, temples, dungeons, etc. I believe that most of these constructions were built by the Zonai: The Skyview Temple has mechanisms which work with eyes, the Earth Temple is full of symbolism and sculptures of dragons (and also has sculptures of people with fangs, long ears and three eyes), the Ancient Cistern has symbols of what appear to be tears and also flowers of lotus (which personally remind me of the figure that has the Zonai symbol from TotK), the Sandship has many spirals and in the Fire sanctuary there are statues of more dragons. Also, most of the dungeons I just mentioned (aside from being almost completely abandoned) have spirals in their architecture. As you can see, the Zonai probably inhabited all of Hyrule just like in BotW, since there we can see Zonai architecture throughout the entire kingdom.

2°- The symbols

The features that the dungeons have are eyes, dragons/snakes, owls, tears, and spirals; we can easily relate all these symbols to the Zonai, because there are many of these in their ruins. Throughout the Faron region there are statues of boars, owls and dragons/snakes; These represent the golden Goddesses and their qualities: power, wisdom and courage. In TotK we can see that the eyes represent the Zonai (in weapons, architecture, jewelry and the extra eye on their foreheads). The tears can be related to the secret stones, which have the same shape as the tears, and are apparently a very important element in the Zonai culture.

And finally the spirals, the most important symbol. Before TotK, spirals were the symbol of the Zonai tribe; In BotW all Zonai architecture was full of spirals (architecture which you can find in basically all Hyrule). According to Creating a Champion, the spiral is a unique mark to show that the Zonai were there and that the place belonged to them; This is why I believe that the dungeons in Skyward Sword were built by the Zonai. (Interesting fact: as I had already pointed out in another post, the Māori patterns are traditional art from New Zealand, one of them is a spiral and is called Rauru)

3°- The Lanayru Desert

The Zonai made buildings throughout the surface, but I believe they had one special settlement; Lanayru. Long ago I thought that the Lanayru Mining Facility belonged to the Sheikah, but now I'm almost sure it belonged to the Zonai. Here are my reasons:

The Zonai had an incredibly advanced technology for their era, in the same way, the entire Lanayru region in general has very advanced technology: artificial light, flying robots, laser rays, automatic platforms, electricity, etc.

Throughout Lanayru there are all kinds of technology and robots, if you look at their designs you will notice that they have an aesthetic very similar to the Zonai. (Another detail is that these robots work with blue/green electricity, the same color as the electricity that the Zonai Constructs have)

The ancient robots that inhabit Lanayru have many kinds, each with a different function (just like the Zonai Constructs), and it seems that most of them suddenly stopped working while doing their daily jobs. It seems that they worked for someone and then they disappeared, similar to how the Zonai became extinct.

The Lanayru Mining Facility, as its name says, is where they used to process all the Timeshift Stones that they had obtained in the mines. In TotK the Zonai also had mines where they collected Zonaite.

As I mentioned before, throughout Lanayru there is a mineral called Timeshift Stone, which has the power to change the time around it. These stones have a dark blue color, and when activated they change to light blue/green; When these pass through the Lanayru Mining Facility, a design that looks like an eye with eyelashes and a tear is added. Previously that eye would be related to the Sheikah, but with all these connections it would make more sense for it to be related to the Zonai.

4°- Origins of the Zonai

All of this points to the fact that the Zonai inhabited Lanayru and that everything there belonged to them; That means that the Zonai protected the temple of time and Nayru's flame, which leads me to think that they also protected the other two flames. As I had previously said, all the temples where the flames are have details that make them related to the Zonai. But why do the Zonai have access to these sacred artifacts?

In TotK we are told that the Zonai are descendants of Gods, and these gods were the ones who gave them the secret stones (which are also sacred artifacts). In Creating a Champion we're told that the Zonai worshiped a certain water dragon, however, in the BotW era there is no water dragon (It could be Farosh, but it's more related to electricity). But, in Skyward Sword there is a water dragon, Faron.

I believe that the Zonai are descendants of the dragons from Skyward Sword (which are basically gods). That would also explain why most temples are made for the dragons and the appearance of the Zonai and their dragon-like features too (scales, horns, fangs, bright colors, etc.)

5°- The tears

So the Zonai, being descendants of dragons, were entrusted to protect sacred artifacts such as the secret stones, the Gate of Time in Lanayru, the flames of the Goddesses, and probably also the Sacred Tears.

In Skyward Sword, when Link goes to the Silent Realm he has to find the tears of the goddesses. There are two very important things here:

After TotK we relate a lot the tears with the Zonai, and in the Silent Realm we have to collect sacred tears. Also in the Silent Realm (and only there) we will find many ''dusk relics'', which have the same shape as the secret stones.

In the Silent Realm there are machines called Guardians, which have an incredible resemblance to the Zonai (Extremely tall, with long ears, three eyes, and they also have many spirals on their desing).

Another game where there are also tears that must be collected is Twilight Princess. Here the spirits of light ask you to collect all the tears in order to restore the world of light.

6°- Connection with the Twili

Another thing I want to point out and that a big part of the fandom has noticed is the big resemblance that the Zonai and the Twili have, but I still want to show more evidence of why I think they are connected:

The spirits of light tell us that a dark tribe known as the Interlopers tried to take over the Triforce using their magic, it was then that the spirits of light stopped them and sent them to the twilight realm.

In Twilight Princess they describe the Interlopers as a tribe with incredibly powerful magic (so much so that they almost got the Triforce). In Creating a Champion they describe the Zonai as “strong magic wielders who vanished suddenly,” similar to the story of the Twili.

The architecture of both tribes is very similar; The architecture in the Twilight realm is very similar to the Zonai which we see in the Dragon's Tears. Inside the palace of Twilight we can see that the building is full of figures that look like eyes with tears, hands, snakes and spirals.

Eyes and hands seem to be very important in Twili culture as well as in the Zonai (There are giant hands in the palace of twilight and even Wolf Link has the mark of a third eye with a tear on his forehead).

The Twili have technology similar to the Zonai's (platforms, switches, etc.)

The magic of the Twili is blue/green, a color we associate with the Zonai, and when something or someone bad controls both, they turn red. Another thing to add is that when we saw the TloZ TotK logo, many of us related the cracks of the master sword with the magic of the Twili.

In BotW, in the Faron region, there is a fragmented monument which is very similar to the twilight mirror and which also has the same color as Twili/Zonai magic.

Despite being a tribe of shadows, they have artifacts called “Sol” which are made of light.

A very important piece of evidence that the Twili and the Zonai are connected is the design of the Fused Shadow. The Fused Shadow (in addition to appearing to be made from the same material as most Zonai architecture in TotK) has spirals, snakes, and eyes.

Another detail about the Fused Shadow that has been talked about for many years is that one of its pieces seems to be one of the eyes of the Majora's mask (I also once saw that someone was comparing one of Rauru's eyes in the mural with Majora).

7°- Majora

In Majora's Mask we are explained that an ancient tribe used to wear the Majora's mask to perform rituals, then they sealed the mask in shadows to avoid catastrophes, and then they mysteriously disappeared. It has been three times that we have heard about a powerful tribe which mysteriously disappeared, it's not weird to think that they could be the same tribe, the Zonai.

The manga explain us that Majora was originally a demon. Majora's armor could fulfill wishes, so many people tried to kill him to take his armor; However, Majora ate them. Afterwards, he was defeated by the Fierce Deity, who made him dance for 3 days and 3 nights until he died. The Fierce Deity used the remains of the demon to make the Majora's mask.

It may be that these people Majora killed were the Zonai, and when the Fierce Deity killed the demon, the Zonai thanked him by making a mask in his honor. I believe this because the Barbarian Armor (which is most likely of Zonai origin), when dyed blue or red, has the same marks as the Fierce Deity.

8°- Zonai appearances in other games before BotW

I don't have much to explain here, just more evidence that the Zonai could have been in Hyrule before the BotW era.

9°- History of the Zonai (my conclusion)

The Zonai are descendants of the three dragons that protected the surface in Skyward Sword. This tribe had very advanced technology and powerful magic. However, being so special, they had a small population

The Zonai had the mission of protecting the most important, sacred artifacts (the tears of the goddesses, the tears of light, and even the Triforce), which is why they came down to the surface in the distant past (The age of Creation, before SkSw). When they arrive to the surface, the Zonai took advantage of the resources that were there (the timeshift Stones) and with them created the two Gates of time and also the ocarina of time (The ocarina is a relic that has been passed down through generations in the royal family, it may have been a gift from Rauru to Sonia). However, by spending Lanayru's resources, a portion of the Zonai ended up dying along with all of Lanayru's technology.

When the Zonai descended to the surface, the Hylians and other inhabitants mistook them for Gods. The Zonai became so obsessed with the idea of being Gods that they tried to be one; So they looked for the demon Majora to kill him and take his armor, with which they could make the wish of becoming Gods, however the majority died in the attempt to defeat the demon. When the Fierce Deity managed to kill him, they made a mask of him and painted their armors in his honor, and the remaining Zonai decided to hide the Majora's mask to avoid further catastrophes. However, they did not give up trying to be gods.

When the ancient battle begin the Zonai were sent to build the Silent Realm for the Hero (that's why you have to collect tears and the guardians look so much like the Zonai). But in the middle of the war, a group of Zonai used their magic to create the Fused Shadow to enter the sacred realm (they were its protectors, that's why they knew about it) and obtain the Triforce, so they could finally make their wish. Unfortunately for them, the Goddesses found out about their betrayal and sent them to the Twilight Realm to punish them (Long time later, the other Zonai built a replica of the mirror of twilight, which is found along with the other Zonai ruins in Faron, to remember them).

At the end of the war, the goddesses gave the few remaining Zonai the secret stones, them decided to remain faithful to the Goddesses and protect the stones (It could be that, as gratitude, the spirits of light gave these few Zonai their light magic, that's why Rauru has sacred light without being related to Hylia). Throughout Skyward Sword the Zonai were hiding somewhere in the sky.

Hundreds of years after SkSw, the Zonai descended from the sky again; Rauru, who was the leader of the tribe (and was also a descendant of the Zonai who protected the stones and had the powers of light), married Sonia (who was a descendant of Link and Zelda from SkSw) and together they founded Hyrule. With the pass of time, the Zonai began to die and finally Rauru and Mineru died in the Imprisoning war, and the Zonai became completely extinct.

Alright, if you made it this far I want to thank you very much. If you have more evidence about this theory that you would like to add, or anything that contradicts it, or any comments, I would like to see it. :)

[ultimateedgelord3073]

LOZ BANANAS

So like, there are bananas that grow in Hyrule, right? So, we can ASSUME these are WILD BANANAS.

SO, DOES THIS MEAN THAT BANANAS FOUND IN HYRULE HAVE SEEDS?

Like it would make sense for them to have seeds, but they more look like the modern seedless bananas. And if Hyrule bananas do have seeds, how much banana do you get per banana? Rubber is also canon, it being an ancient material, so it wouldn’t be such a stretch to say that seedless bananas were a thing, but I don’t think a banana tree from the ancient times can survive till the plot of totk. So it could be that bananas reinvented seeds for themselves, because the seedless would strait up not pass on their genes. Or one of the three goddesses decided “THERE WILL BE BANANAS “, or maybe BANANAS DON’T ANSWER TO THE GODS OR THE LAWS OF NATURE. THEY JUST APPEAR WHERE THEY PLEASE.

But the real question is…

CAN YOU MAKE SEEDY BANANA BREAD IN HYRULE?

[rawliverandgoronspice]

oh wow, shocking twist and new development, but now I'm starting to see a lot more industry people than before conceding that totk had serious high level flaws and express frustration at the design philosophy developed around that title

this wasn't the case even six months ago, so that's something

[ixtaek]

Crack theory I have no basis for:

The golden power and the Triforce are NOT the same thing.

“The Golden Power” is power from Hylia, and only descendants of the Royal Family can use it. We see it most clearly in Minish Cap and Breath of the Wild, and though the Triforce shows up on BotW Zelda’s hand, it’s implied the golden power is an inherent power to her that even her mother had. The brand on your hand only shows you’ve got sacred power, not necessarily from the golden three.

By contrast, the Triforce is power from the golden three. It’s not inherent, but earned by actions. You don’t have to explicitly seek it out—OoT Link got the Triforce of Courage because when it came time to dole it out, he had earned it. But seeking it does impact things, because the Triforce is a physical object that, for the most part, must be found by SOMEONE before anyone can use it. Hence why og Link can’t immediately use the Courage until game two: the Courage piece is physically missing. WW Link has to find it as well, while physically separating the pieces of the Wisdom is more than enough to keep it out of Ganondorf’s hands.

So what about Twilight Princess? In Twilight Princess, OoT Link went back in time and stopped Ganondorf before he ever got started. The Sacred Realm was never opened. The Triforce was still physically locked behind the Door of Time and a full dimension away and no one was trying to get it. Then the “divine prank” happens and Ganondorf (and unknowingly, Zelda and Link) get their pieces. Iirc, TP Link is all but stated to be the Hero of Time’s ancestor (by blood), so apparently that’s enough for him to get his piece pre-adventure. BUT. We see that Triforce pieces can protect you in your non-native realm, so a popular theory is that Zelda gave her Triforce of Wisdom to Midna as part of saving her. How then can Puppet Zelda still use light magic in her attacks? Simple! That’s Hylia’s golden power, which she has independent of the Triforce of Wisdom.

But BotW is in a weird mash-up timeline. Shouldn’t the Triforce be there? Maybe not! The one from TP faded from Ganon, and likely the others did as well, back in the sacred realm. The one from Wind Waker is at the bottom of the ocean. The one from the downfall timeline is either in the sacred realm (or propping up Hyrule and Lorule) or was stolen and corrupted by Ganon to form the dark world. Given the calamity and state of the Temple of Time, it’s possible they kinda forgot the Triforce was a thing, or knew about it but it was out of reach.

So that leaves us with golden power. Zelda can’t awaken her golden power by begging the golden three at the springs because it’s not FROM them. It’s from Zelda’s blood connection to Hylia. Even if she might have had access to the Triforce of Wisdom (and I find that debatable), the power comes from within her. From Hylia. From the connection between the descendant of Hylia’s incarnation and the bearer of the Hero’s Spirit.

Long story short: The golden power and Triforce are separate, only Zeldas can have the golden power, and the Triforce is missing sometimes because it’s literally out of reach.

[gingerdusk]

Okay, but I personally think the sages are wrong about this.

Was it? Was it really?

The sages of old, at their full power, backed by their king, weren't even a threat to him.

And the new sages STILL aren't.

Plus, the only reason the sages even awakened at all was because Ganondorf leads you right to them. Tulin wouldn't have become with Sage of Wind if Colgera wasn't whipping up whirlwinds. Yunobo would have been happily mining away if people weren't poisoned by Marbled Rock Roast. Riju wouldn't have even known the Lightning Temple existed if not for the Gibdo threat. Sidon might not even have been given the throne if not for the Sludge Like incident. Mineru's the only one he could be seen as "obstructing," and even then, she was never a challenge to him.

And then you've got the fight at Hyrule Castle, where Ganondorf says this:

And when he leaves, Riju makes this comment:

These aren't unrelated. It's not that Ganondorf wanted to prevent Link from getting the Secret Stones to their chosen hands; the sages misread him. It's always, and ONLY, been stalling tactics.

All of it.

Every moment that makes Link pause.

Every side quest that throws him off course.

Every show of power that gets Link's attention.

It's all a diversion so he can gain more strength.

Ganondorf is an experienced leader. He's a tactician. He knows what he's about.

It's a multi-fold strategy. Run down your enemy's resources while preserving your own, bide your time and observe, then crush their spirit by making them think they have a chance you can tear away from them on a whim. He wants you to have the sages so your morale breaks when he destroys them again.

[gaylactic-fire]

I still don't know how to feel about the whole dragon thing 😭

[1tsjusty0u]

man. totk couldve been so good

[werewen]

(This has been sitting in my drafts since summer of last year. Posting now because I just remembered it and I’m still correct.)

Tired of people comparing Zelda to Falin, in terms of how their transformations were handled. (I’m not here to shit on people for having fun. If you want to draw Zelda as having draconic features, I don’t care.)

The reason why dragon Falin and dragon Zelda are handled so differently is because they’re completely different stories unrelated to each other, making any comparison moot dragon Falin is an animal, fused with an animal both in body and soul, with animal limitation* and therefore our main characters had to get creative with how they would make her Falin again. (*it is noted that her body is incredibly inconvenient in that her mouth isn’t big enough to efficiently fuel her massive body, as opposed to the dragons in TotK which are immortal)

Zelda on the other hand, was transformed by magic into a spirit. The dragons in BotW and TotK are magical entities, supposedly only seen by the pure of heart (mostly just children, but also Link). They don’t even eat, just flying around, untethered to the earth in every way. As far as we know, draconification has only ever happened 3 times before Zelda did it, and there is little to no research done into it at that point. Which is why Mineru would believe it’s a permanent transformation; because it’s never been undone. That would make that whole thing wildly different from chimeras in Delicious in Dungeon, which have been researched so extensively that people are making werewolves for entertainment. People thought it was plausible (if extremely unlikely) to bring Falin back, because of their knowledge of what happens when two souls are fused.

Falin took the dragon with her because they became one being. They are inseparable from each other. Zelda didn’t come back with dragon parts because the dragon was always just her, transformed into something not quite an animal, not quite a god.

Rant over. Here’s my theory as to how and why Zelda came back, based on what Mineru gave us.

It’s never explained how or why swallowing the Secret Stone turns someone into a dragon. I see it as a necessity for storing that absurd amount of power in their own body. I believe that taking that into yourself is far too much for a mortal body to handle, so it turns you into a dragon.

As for the transformation being undone, Mineru’s theory suggests that Rauru’s and Sonia’s respective light and time powers resonated within Zelda’s dragon form. That they were channeled through the only remaining piece of Rauru’s physical form, his arm, attached to Link’s body. More specifically though, I think that Sonia and Zelda’s time powers played the most important part here, helping her body to remember its original shape. This is supported by one of the Dragon Tears, where Sonia explains how she uses her powers. Rauru’s power of purifying light was likely necessary more for the immense power he is shown being able to channel.

Most of all though, I think the reason why Zelda came back is because… SHE ALWAYS DOES. In what world has she ever NOT come back?????

If you don’t personally like it, that’s fine. But please don’t make the mistake of comparing Zelda to Falin. They’re handled differently because they’re going through things that are completely unrelated to each other outside of the word “dragon.”