#totk thoughts

[boomxyzu]

She can’t remember anything, but he will remember her every day how much she means to him.

​

what if Zelda doesn’t remember anything after her dragonification.

>>1<<

>>2<< you are here

>>3<<

[mooncrisisdepression]

The fandom collectively sort of agreed that Zelda was a bad cook without a lot of evidence

That was until Age of Calamity came along and actually proved the fandom right!

However, there is a side quest in Tears of the Kingdom that implies she can cook actually

And the only reasonable explanation to this is that Link taught her, obviously

[hopiufame]

Anyway I just finished the water temple and this was the best part:

Mipha i miss u

[ghoulishtomato]

Live Reaction of me running into the 100th brand new monster in TOTK

Such horrible beasts....

[aksm]

People knock on Rhoam for being a bad dad cuz he's distant and stern to little Zelda and say how Rauru is the goat (heh) for taking her in like his own daughter. Like Zelda had her real parental connection with Sonia and Rauru. But frankly that's a little reductive.

Rauru literally descended from the heavens, married a priest, started a kingdom. Man didn't really know much strife yet. There's no looming threat of calamity or prophecy yet. Things are peaceful. Things are fine. Things are great. Zelda dropped in during this time, talking about a doom that's going to happen tens of thousands of years in the future.

This sad, lost princess.

Of course any reasonable person would take her in and calm her and tell her she is fine and listen and support her.

Rhoam not being able to be this kind of figure for Zelda is tragic. Just read this poor man's journal entries:

"It has been a year and three months since her mother passed. Perhaps she is held back by heartache too deep to heal. If the Ganon prophecy wasn't looming over our heads, I would tell her to take her time... To wait until she is ready. But our situation is dire and leaves no room for weakness—even on behalf of my beloved daughter. My heart breaks for Zelda, but I must act as a king, not a father. I must order her to train relentlessly at the fountain." Pg 4.

"In truth, I understand Zelda's feelings. Painfully so. She lost her mother, her teacher, before she could learn from her. Ten pointless years of self-training, without so much as a book or note to help her find her way... Those in the castle talk behind her back. And I, her only family, scold her for her shortcomings. No wonder she wishes to hide away in her beloved relic research. I'd love nothing more than to console her... But I must stay strong. She MUST fulfill her duty, just as we all must. Even if she comes to despise me." Pg 6.

"I have been told my Zelda went to the Spring of Wisdom... This will likely be her last chance. If she is unable to awaken her power at Lanayru, all hope is truly lost. If she comes back without success, then I shall speak kindly with her. Scolding is pointless now. I forced 10 years of training on her... and after all that, it seems her power will stubbornly awaken some other way. Perhaps I should encourage her to keep researching her beloved relics. They may just lead her to answers I can't provide. For now, I sit anxiously, more a father than a king in this moment. I sit and await my daughter's return." Pg 7. (He fucking dies and never gives Zelda this bit of closure uuuugggghhhhhhh Zelda I'm so sorry Rhoam I'm so sorry)

It sucks because most people remember the cutscenes (duh it's more immersive and important) and in the cutscenes of the first game Rhoam was mostly shown as being stern and mean to babygirl Zelda, who is closed fists explaining herself to him at the verge of tears. And in contrast everyone in the first royal family of hyrule in the second game treated her with such kindness and we can see how happy she was being there with them.

Rhoam was shackled by duty. By prophecy. By the looming calamity. And from the day he named his daughter 'Zelda' he shackled her as well.

And what does Zelda do with these shackles? She accepts them. She tolerates them. Because she loves her father and her kingdom and knows there's a power dormant in her that can stop the calamity that she must do her best to unlock. She does this dutifully. She does all the training, she does everything that is required.

But it still doesn't unlock. So she tries other ways. She isn't just going after the 'relics' because she's scholarly and nerdy and wants to learn about them. She does it because she's pragmatic. She knows her sacred sealing power isn't present in her. She knows she might not be able to control it or even unlock it in time.

So she tries this alternative approach. The Divine Beasts, the guardians. Ancient tech that was used to prevent the calamity of their time. And she awakened the tech. And her father chose the champions for each divine beast. And they were all prepared. And it's all thanks to Zelda.

And then... Fucking tragedy again. Ganon probably learned his lesson from the last time he was thwarted and immediately went for the tech, corrupting it and turning it against the new users. Against Zelda.

It's never really stated how fast it all turned to shit when the tech betrayed them (or maybe I don't remember) but every account points to it being almost overnight. The champions died. Rhoam died. And suddenly, suddenly Zelda unlocks her sealing magic.

I always always hate the literary trope of using tragedy to unlock a great power that could've actually stopped the tragedy from happening in the first place.

And it's no different in BOTW. I hate that Zelda had to go through all this to unlock her powers.

And then what happens next?

She's stuck in limbo (in an almost mocking parallel to Rauru in the next game with his imprisoning arm) holding Ganon back. For a hundred years.

This young woman had gone through so much only to be trapped with a calamity seeking to destroy Hyrule for a century.

Does she know her father died in the war? Does she know the champions died in battle? Would she know Link would survive in the Shrine of Resurrection? Would she know how long it would all take? The century she would have to wait?

I think she didn't. I think it all happened too fast. I think ultimately, she decided a stalemate with ganon was an agreeable outcome. I think in her mind she probably thought she failed Hyrule. When the divine beasts turned she must have been distraught. Distraught might not even cover it tbh. But at least... At least when the kingdom was brought to it's knees by the corrupted tech and was waiting for the final blow, she had the ability to ensure the final blow never came.

And oh boy I have a looot more to talk about regarding Tears of the Kingdom. But I do want to have a couple of more playthroughs of it to really formulate what I want to say.

[dragonflyxparodies]

LOVE that at some point between BOTW and TOTK Zelda turned the entire goddamn country into a country of lore-obsessed wannabe archeologists. YES I play games to obsess over ruins of ancient civilizations and YES literally ever fucking character in this game does too

It was fun in BOTW when she was the weirdo obsessed w/it and it's even more fun now that you learn she's contagious lol.

[navisakura]

*Tears of the Kingdom Spoilers*

Playing through the Wind Temple quest has given me even more love and respect for Revali in retrospect because now it’s confirmed that he was literally just a guy™️.

All of the other champions were direct descendants of the sages who fought in the Imprisoning War, except him. He had no special powers or magic passed down through his bloodline, he was just some guy who was good with a bow. He had to develop and perfect his own technique to help him in battle on his own, no other Rito had ever done it before.

Which makes the fact that he, without any noble blood or fancy magic, was able to fight alongside the descendants of the sages AND the Hero of Destiny AND the divine princess/descendant of Rauru and Sonia even more impressive. His outward confidence and ego makes sense when you consider that he was constantly trying to prove himself to everyone, that he was a strong warrior despite not being born with power.

It’s also really sad that in the end, Revali’s bloodline ended with him whereas the other champions at least got to die knowing that their family and loved ones would live on. The only things that serve as a reminder of his existence are the Great Eagle Bow and Revali’s Landing. Almost everyone in Zora’s domain remembers Mipha and honors her memory with an entire courtyard for her statue, Daruk has his face carved in a literal mountain, but Revali is rarely mentioned in TotK. (Urbosa doesn’t really have anything but shhh this aint about her) No one that knew him is still alive, except maybe the former chief owl guy?

That also begs the question of wtf was the Rito sage doing at the time of the Calamity, but honestly they probably were just some random person with no combat experience, given that they didn’t know they were a sage :P

tldr; Revali is the best champion no I don’t take criticism

[sweetbeanscomix]

I think he overpacked.

[starlight-shark]

i think it's interesting how the dragons in totk are portrayed. it's said that, you know, “to become an immortal dragon is to lose oneself.” they lose all their characteristics that make them human. their body, their voice, their emotions. but clearly some part of them must stay. whether its their biggest emotions or their strongest relationships. this manifests itself in both zelda, the light dragon, and ganons malice dragon. zelda’s love for link was the whole reason she turned into the light dragon, to get him back his sword from centuries in the past so that he stood a chance against the demon king. she voluntarily gave up her entire personhood knowing that she would never get it back because of her love for link. and then ganon. whether it was his hatred for link, or his ambition to conquer hyrule with link the only thing standing in his way, it’s very clear that some part of him remained in the dragon, or else it would have just wandered the skies as soon as he had transformed. instead, it literally grabbed link and took him to fight in the skies, with the light dragon swooping in to help protect link. I just think its interesting, because they clearly havent lost all of themselves. this may partly be because of their relationships with each other via the triforce, but im not entirely sure.

[spirit-tracks]

Okay SO. Theory Rush after finishing Tears of the Kingdom. Go.

The Zonai are said to have descended from the heavens to help found Hyrule. I can think of another race that descended from the heavens. Do you guys think the minish are native to the Zonai sky islands?

Does the Depths set look a little familiar to you? This along with Josha's theory that people once lived down there, I wonder if the interlopers were present in the Depths before being banished to the twilight realm.

The architecture and robot designs from Skyward Sword have a distinct Zonai look to them! So that leads me to believe the Zonai were the race that created the Lanayru Mining Facility.

It might even be that the Past from Skyward Sword is indeed the time period that Zelda was transported back to! Maybe the legacy of the kingdom of Hyrule goes back even further than the fight between Hylia and Demise: though I admit the early appearance of Demon King Ganondorf throws a wrench in this theory.

About secret stones and the amber relics in Skyward Sword: I want to say there's a connection between them, though amber relics don't seem to be as rare and important as secret stones, (we find them in abundance in Skyward Sword and they don't do much). Of course, i haven't played SS in a while so if they have any more significance it's escaping me at the moment. For the time being I'd like to think ancient hylians might have carried them around as good luck charms to emulate secret stones of their own.

The Legend of the Great Sky Island mini quest in has the construct telling us that the island was supposed to be where a hero will one day awaken to defeat the Demon King. I know our Link wakes up on this island, but there's definitely something eating at my brain about the Great Sky Island being related to (or perhaps even IS) Skyloft, and that the awakening of the hero is referring to Skyward Sword Link. (This potentially supports the theory that the Past in TOTK predates the war between Hylia and Demise)

There's a pretty good chance that Rauru and Sonia's child could have been named Zelda, after the sweet time traveling girl they practically adopted :) the first princess of Hyrule named after the last princess of Hyrule.

There is a giant dragon skeleton in the Gerudo Desert Depths, big as or even bigger than Farosh, Dinraal and Naydra. It is my belief that this mystery dragon became a dragon ala Secret Stone alongside the three aboveland, but was killed at some point in the Depths. I don't know what four people decided to become dragons, but my strongest theory is that Dinraal, Farosh and Naydra are the draconified forms of the oracles of the Golden Goddesses, Din, Farore and Nayru. So who is this?

Seeing as the Lightroots underground are activated via Zonai hand terminal and each Lightroot lies directly beneath a shrine on the surface, I think the Lightroots are extensions of these shrines, having grown straight downward to light up the underground. This is probably obvious but I just barely figured this out 😅

Since Rauru, sage of light, and a new Temple of Time are in this game, I want to think that this person and location are more than just Easter Eggs to Ocarina of Time. I think that the sage from Ocarina of Time was named after King Rauru, though I'm not sure whether him being the sage of light would have been a coincidence or a direct inspiration.

What I do think is that he indeed did put the triforce in that very same Temple of Time and all the sky islands went to the Sacred Realm until Tears of the Kingdom, when they came back to earth and appeared in the sky. That's just a theory but why else would the sky islands be reappearing as if from nowhere?

Speaking of which, there were floating masses in the sky in Minish Cap, namely great big stone temples and fortresses. Minish Cap takes place during the early days of Hyrule, which would be pretty much right after the Zonai descended. Perhaps the Zonai are the Wind Tribe mentioned, and the people we see in game are their descendants, who look much more hylian than Zonai due to being crossed with full hylian genetics over the generations?

Anyway I need to retouch up on my Zelda lore to make sure I'm getting the details right, (that, and i haven't yet 100% the game so i may be missing some totk context), but I HAD to post my thoughts and get them out there! I'll add on later if I think of any more, in the meantime feel free to brainstorm!

[hotstreak2k3]

The way the master sword is held in two screenshots leaves a lasting impression to the players.

Link → Masculinity (unhand, blade on top, side swinging the sword)

Zelda → Femininity (reverse hand, blade down, side protecting the sword)

I thought this would be a good comparison. And the more you think about it, the more it makes sense.

[boomxyzu]

He has to find her. He is gonna find her.

And this time it was not for duty or for the kingdom.

[golvio]

i dont really know how to word it, but ganondorfs speech after his rehydration about reshaping the world, crushing opposition, as a king does. i just went "oh so like rauru but hes being more honest and less nice about it."

Yeah, like...the story's mostly uncritical nationalism, but there are certain lines that stand out that I interpret as Ganondorf's existence being a natural consequence of Rauru taking power. Not just as plain, mundane secular politics, but as the universe trying to rebalance itself after Rauru's attempt to build a perfect world by suppressing things like monsters and the blood moon that were a natural part of the world but he nevertheless saw as undesirable.

Take Jerrin's line about the Horned Statue, for instance:

"As there is the Goddess of light, then it follows that she would have an opposite—the horned god. Like light and dark, one cannot exist without the other—their power manifests through the other's existence."

The Horned God wasn't originally the opposite of Hylia. That role would be better suited by an entity like Demise. However, there's a certain implication that, in the absence of a competing counterforce, certain entities eventually emerged in response to Hylia's existence or were shaped by the consequences of her actions to occupy that niche. Jerrin's tone makes this process of opposition sound inevitable.

And then there's the Depths being a mirror image of the surface, a little like ALTTP's Dark World or ALBW's Lorule. The terrain of the Depths is an inverted version of the surface's terrain. The Lightroot names are even the names of the Shrines spelled backwards, and are in the exact same locations as their aboveground counterparts. As above, so below. And although the Depths were Ganondorf's prison, they eventually became his home and the metaphorical womb-of-the-earth where he could be nurtured back to health and reborn. As their ruler, he, too, is a mirror image of someone above: first Rauru, and later his descendants, culminating in the current Zelda.

As Rauru was the self-proclaimed King of Light, it would stand to reason that there would eventually be a King of Shadow who took charge over the things the King of Light refused to touch. Both the monsters and the blood moon, which IIRC existed well before Ganondorf took on the crown if Rauru and Mineru built the shrines to suppress them before the events of Zelda's memories, fall under the Demon King's dominion. And then there's that one theory that Ganondorf might be the Sage of Shadow, which made me literally say "oh shit" to myself because that was the one element that was missing from Rauru's stable of pals compared to the seven sages of Ocarina of Time. Of course Mr. Light-Must-Dominate-At-All-Times wouldn't want a Shadow guy around, even if they were an absolutely loyal secret-keeper and professional warcrimes-mess-cleaner-upper like Ocarina of Time's Impa.

But also...Rauru wasn't just "a king." The narrative presented him as the absolute monarch over the nation, literally sent by the gods to rule. He's elevated so far above "the common people" that even the leaders who aren't part of his Important Royal Bloodline are presented as faceless and subservient, always wearing masks in his and Zelda's presence and never giving their own names, as who they are isn't as important as their oath to serve the king. However, there cannot be absolute power without the capacity to abuse said power. No matter how "nice" the guy currently in charge is, systems of absolute divine-right monarchy are problematic by nature and inevitably create conflict. Ganondorf was the other side of the coin of absolute kingship, the uncomfortable truth lurking in the background, never outright said but always felt. It's kind of why a lot of our ancestors got together and agreed the whole "divine-right monarchy" thing wasn't a great idea.

[somanygeese]

Can we talk about how hot Tauro is for a side character? Like you get to Kakariko Village, and you're like "Oh hey Paya! How are you--"

👀

I want to know the person who designed Tauro so I can shake their hand and thank them for all their hard work.

[wastingoxygensince1983]

Me: After having Link going alone for so long in BOTW I really love that the sage spirits are going around with him in his journey.

Also Me:

Yunobo you are an idiot.

Riju I bonded with you because I like your power the most. I wish someday you would be CLOSE ENOUGH TO ME to actually use it.

To be honest I only use Sidon's power when I am collecting stuff and his big ass steps in the way.

Not you Tulin we are happy that you are here.

[carrotsnake]

Zelda and the Tale of Melusine

I'll be looking at the parallels between Zelda's arc and some Medieval tropes of female metamorphosis, using Melusine: Or the Noble History of Lusignan as an example. Specificially a translated copy of Jean d'Arras's version, since that's the most well known one.

To start, a run down of Melusine:

She's a half human, half fairy woman cursed by her mother for imprisoning her mortal father in a mountain. The curse dictates every Saturday she turns into a serpent from the naval down. She must marry a human man for a long time to slowly undo the curse and become fully human, but he must never see her monstrous form beforehand.

If he does, she'll lose her humanity forever and transform into a dragon.

She meets a knight in the woods, he suspects her otherworldly knowledge comes from "some phantasm or diabolical power", to which she goes don't worry about it kitten. But he likes her so he's like ok! ^_^ yay!

She keeps giving him cool fairy advice, and with it his life magically becomes a whole lot better - he gains wealth, power, and not just him but other people listen to her advice: crops flourish, castles are built. The kingdom is thriving! They love her just as much as he does, so it's no surprise they get married. But there's just one condition, she hides in the bathhouse every Saturday, and he's never to visit or peep at her.

He breaks his promise and discovers her secret. She says he's cursed both of them, and now he's lost her forever: "Be sure that as long as you live I shall always find pleasure in seeing you; but [...] never again shall you see me in female form."

The next passage is as follows:

'Melusine, uttering a very doleful cry and then a heavy sigh, leapt from the window into the void, and as she swept across the orchards she metamorphosed into a massive dragon some fifteen feet in length. [...] In her dragon form she circled the fortress three times, and each time she flew past the window she uttered such an excruciating, desolate cry that everyone wept for pity, knowing that she was leaving under constraint and against her will. Then she disappeared in the direction of Lusignan, letting out such rueful shrieking and strident cries that wherever she passed it seemed as if lightning and thunder were about to split the sky.'

He never sees her again after that. But phantoms of her start appearing in the castle, secretly visiting her children at night and generally just spooking people by standing there menacingly. And that's how the myth is born.

I've already drawn connections through the images above, but what's the point of this?

Like lots of other fans I was irked by the whole 'zelda jesus' thing in totk, yeah it is a little odd that everyone follows her advice without question, and it's never wrong.

I'm curious, if the team was drawing from Western myths, that this was supposed to echo the fae. Especially since most of the quests keep you on your toes on whether this was the real Zelda giving advice, or a fake - a phantom(!) - deliberately sabotaging them. It mirrors how opinions on Melusine were split between a benevolent fae or a demon. Splitting them into two entities though, I can see how that would defang it.

The og text wasn't exactly that nuanced either. I remember my prof joking the message amounted to "always listen to your weird snake wife!" Maybe we SHOULD listen to our weird snake wives.

It's interesting Melusine only interacts with children after the curse - botw+totk imply only young children who are pure of heart can see dragons.

I recommend reading the whole thing if you can find it! Then you can look for more parallels, and read riveting pieces of dialogue such as this: