#vulgate cycle

[sword-wielding-sapphic]

Lancelot in the vulgate cycle

[dullyn]

This is my entire basis of Lancelot and Guinevere's relationship I fear. Like I've read so much stuff, but nothing has ever stood out as much as this:

Source: Lancelot IV, Vulgate Cycle, trans. Norris J. Lacy

[mordredpendragon]

How Mordred was slain by Arthur, and how by him Arthur was hurt to the death, Illustration by Alfred Pollard / Vulgate: Death of Arthur / more at Arthurian Preservation Project

a passage i think about all the time. the ray of sunlight in the wound is also mentioned in dante's inferno in canto XXXII, where mordred is in the 9th circle of hell. he's submerged in a frozen lake in caina, for treachery towards kin.

pretty neat!

[gawrkin]

The recent discovery of a Suite du Merlin fragment, where Merlin appears to Arthur and Guinevere as handsome gentlemen with flashy clothing reminded me that there's an aspect of Merlin that isn't talked about much:

Merlin loves to abuse his shapeshifting powers and mess around people

[...]

[...]

[..]

[...]

[...]

(Source: Vulgate Cycle - Story of Merlin)

He clearly loves doing this.

On a lesser note, it would appear the recent discovery seems to be related to the story with Harpist!Merlin in the second to the last image above.

[liixlabrat]

hey gang welcome to: me ranting about the differences in fandom satbk lancelot and lancelot in arthurania (in an observational way) + some other things regarding the differences in satbk compared to legend (mostly my thoughts abt the casting. hint: i don't like it)

disclaimers:

- this will be a long post so it will be under a cut

- this will have a HEAVY lean towards the vulgate cycle in terms of characterization because that is what I'm most knowledgeable about.

- satbk is mostly based on thomas mallory and chrétien de troyes' work. there will be inconsistencies because of this

- i am a believer in dldr in fandom spaces. this isn't a critical rant about characterization. this is more about me talking about something I'm passionate about because i find it interesting

- this will also not be about MY characterization of lancelot bc that needs to be its own post (though my own thoughts will be mentioned)

- fandom's satbk lancelot will be called lance and arthurania lancelot will just be called lancelot for my sake

tws (all arthurania): rape, incest, drugging, kidnapping, death. stay safe, most of these are once mentioned in passing.

i find the differences between lance and lancelot absolutely fascinating simply due to the fact of how different they are. while a lot of lance's characterization can be excused by drawing parallels to shadow, it's still EXTREMELY different

the general consensus on lance (from what i can gather) is that he's a loyal knight who sticks by arthur's side through thick and thin, extremely stoic, and unwilling to say no to arthur (plus some shadow traits like being stubborn, prideful, caring etc etc)

and while that conclusion makes sense considering the information given about lance in satbk, it is incredibly different to actual lancelot.

lancelot is the best knight. he goes actively stir-crazy when forced to stay within arthur's kingdom, and knights don't enjoy times of peace because they are people made to fight. so more times than not, he's not in arthur's kingdom, and it's rare when he is. he's also not stoic in the SLIGHTEST. he openly worries (a lot), gets angry (a lot), cries (a lot), and wears his heart on his sleeve. he is DANGEROUS when he's angry, pretty much to the point of madness. he's also protective of those he cares about. at one point he actively left the round table because arthur fucked up (bad) and to be convinced by several people to return back to arthur's court. hell, he isn't even loyal to arthur! at all! that's his THING!!

lancelot isn't lancelot without guinevere. make it romantic or platonic he's still not lancelot without her. because guinevere is who he's loyal to, guinevere is who gives him his strength, and guinevere is who makes him a knight. (this is likely the reason why lance is such an inaccurate lancelot)

now in terms of satbk, transfer these traits to arthur/sonic and yeah, you can make it work. have your doomed medieval yaoi (even though theres already doomed medieval yaoi in arthurania but i'm getting ahead of myself)

another thing that i notice a lot of differences in is backstory

lance's backstory varies from person to person (commonly attributing parts of shadow's backstory) but i don't know how many people who write these backstories know lancelot's backstory??? or story in general?? like i genuinely have no idea

so bam. here's lancelot's story summarized:

lancelot was born in benoic (france) by king ban and queen elaine. his name was in fact NOT lancelot at the time and instead his name was galahad. when he was a baby benoic was overthrown by king claudas (which. king ban sent out pleas for help to king arthur. guess who left him on read. king arthur.), his father dies soon after bc he fell off a horse, nimue abducts lancelot/galahad, and his mother becomes a nun out of grief.

nimue raises lancelot in a place thats disguised as a lake (its not a lake) with two of lancelot's cousins (lionel and bors). lancelot doesnt have a name anymore at this point and is instead called "the child" "the fair foundling" or in nimue's case "my prince." he doesnt know about his actual origins and believes nimue to be his actual mother. he learns archery, swordfighting, academics, etc etc

he grows up, leaves at either 15 or 18, gets knighted, falls in love with guinevere, so on and so forth

in the case of vulgate cycle (i'm unsure if this carries over to other versions) he goes under several identities (white knight, red knight, black knight) before revealing himself as lancelot. he only learns of his name (and origins) when he conquers dolorous guard and finds his tomb. (which. yes lancelot owns a fortress and he renames it to joyous guard) this all happens relatively early on

everything else varies so i'm not going to tell a specific story bc the only one i'm very familiar with is vulgate.

however: something that i've seen several times is morgan (arthur's sister) kidnapping and drugging lancelot. the motivations vary (from wanting lancelot herself or from hating guinevere) and the actions themselves vary but it's a consistent event. i've personally read both him being thrown into a dungeon and him being actively manipulated

anyway after more varying events: the court finds out about guinevere and lancelot's affair, a civil war breaks out and camelot falls

OKAY. so theres a distinct lack of galahad in said backstory and it's like that for a reason. because galahad is an entire thing in of itself

a common thing that i see is lance raising galahad. this in fact didn't happen with lancelot, and while i do think lance WOULD raise galahad, it would also be miserable for lance specifically. (and galahad too probably)

see, while the time of when galahad was born varies from source to source, the time i see most often is when he was freshly a knight or just entering camelot (not in vulgate). the fact that galahad was a result of elaine of corbinec drugging and raping him because he saved her from morgan boiling her (which made her fall in love. but she also knew that she was not lancelot's true love so instead she tricked him) makes the situation much worse. the reason why lancelot spared her was because she was pregnant with his child. events happen again three years later (minus the child and the boiling water) except this time guinevere found out and banished him for a year. during all of this galahad was raised by a convent

(during a fit of madness, elaine showed him the holy grail which cured him. they got married and i am in a pit of despair.)

galahad gets knighted at 15 by lancelot because it was the one time he ever lost a fight, then he dies between the ages of 15 to early 20s because of the holy grail quest. (tldr: he ascended)

so. thats arthurania. time for me to complain about segas casting because HOLY FUCK ITS ASS

the ones i'm not commenting on are lancelot, gawain, galahad and lamorak as shadow, knuckles, silver and jet respectively all of them are bc i think they're fairly accurate with the exception of lamorak because i know fuck all about jet or lamorak

however the largest atrocity is sonic as king arthur. BECAUSE KING ARTHUR FUCKING SUCKS DUDE. benoic fell because king arthur didnt respond, nobody likes him, he's had several affairs, a massive hypocrite (look at the previous point), a shitty ruler, camelot is still running because of lancelot (whos literally only there because of guinevere), and he hates his own kid WHOS MOTHER IS HIS OWN SISTER. I CANNOT THINK OF A LESS SONIC CHARACTER THAN KING ARTHUR. i know in my heart and soul sonic would fucking HATEE him. i'm convinced the only reason why sonic is king arthur is because of being a main character. (but even then the stories are NEVER about king arthur! they're always about his knights!!)

if it were me, he'd be galehaut. a strong, well liked ruler who despite taking over 29 kingdoms their people adore him. hes ambitious, charismatic and absolutely SMITTEN for lancelot. ("i will die if you are not here with me" is something said many times. hes also very serious about this sentiment)

idek who king arthur would be

the next one is amy as nimue. while it's not AS bad as sonic as king arthur, she doesn't fit as nimue. in my heart of hearts she would not be a teasing fae who abducted a kid to be raised as her own. however someone who sounds like they would do that is one (1) rouge the bat. (plus shadow and rouge family parallels!!)

amy would probably be guinevere. it just. makes sense. sweet to her people, generous with her words, a good leader. checks out

blaze as percival is not something i have an issue with but its more like i think her being queen blaye of malehaut would fit her more. (tbf blaye is a vulgate exclusive i believe). blaye took care of lancelot when he was injured from dolorous guard, accidentally fell in love, never confessed, and was planning to get married to galehaut. (however, if i'm being so fucking real guinevere, blaye, galehaut, and lancelot are all in a polyamorous relationship. this also opens the door for blazamy & sonadow so there's a win there!!)

if i had to assign percival to anyone it'd probably be espio. he's close with silver and while i dont know a lot about either of their characters it Just Makes Sense with the minimal research i did.

anyway. this was mostly an excuse for me to yell about arthurania lancelot i'll be real. love that guy. there's absolutely shit that i forgot to mention so if i remember i'll probably tack it on at some point.

[susanstohelits]

the description of lancelot in the vulgate is so funny. What do we need to know about this great knight?

Anonymous author, sweating: uhhh his sexy feminine neck. and he had hands like a woman. and an ass that won't quit. these are important details for reasons.

[galence]

must be a marriage proposal.

[sickfreaksirkay]

Sir Kay, Seneschal of King Arthur's Court, Harold J. Herman / Illustration from the Mabinogion / The Quest for Olwen, trans. Gwyn Thomas and Kevin Crossley-Holland / The Story of Merlin, trans. Rupert T. Pickens / Illustration from The Quest for Olwen, Margaret Jones / Wace's Roman de Brut, trans. Eugene Mason / The Mabinogion, trans. Lady Charlotte Guest

a collection of sir kay and sir bedivere: companions/lovers/worse, for @queer-ragnelle's may day parade

[false-guinevere]

Okay but Mordred’s whole thing with Guinevere in the Vulgate is so interesting to me. Like it’s gone over very quickly but it’s fascinating that he just. Falls in love with her apparently.

And then the Post-Vulgate straight up compares Mordred’s love for her to Lancelot’s??

WILD

It just fascinates me. Mordred is usurping the throne but also his attempt to marry Guinevere is seemingly just from a genuine desire to I guess. I don’t know I just think it’s neat. I need to know more about these hangouts during Mordred’s regency that caused Mordred to fall so deeply in love. What did they talk about? Did Guinevere consider them friends? I have so many questions.

[pgwodewose]

Quick drawing of Mordred with curly blond hair, as per his description in the Vulgate Lancelot Part IV:

[queer-ragnelle]

Post-Vulgate: The Merlin Continuation | More quotes at Arthuriana Daily

[onceandfuturecourt]

It’s pride month, time to get back to the queer reading of the Vulgate. Gonna try to do a post a day. Let’s see if I stick with it for longer than a week.

(posting this now to hold myself accountable, will hopefully post a reading summary later today)

[arthurian-texts]

When the youth [Mordred] saw [Gawain's] wounds, he turned away, grieving as bitterly as any man could ever grieve [...] He went to another chamber and fell down upon a bed and wept and cried and wrung his hands and tore all his clothes. [...] [Agravain] found the youth tearing his hair and his clothing. And when the youth saw his lord [Agravain] before him, he neither moved nor left off his grieving. "What is this, you bastard," said the lord, "what are you grieving about? Don't you see that I have been healed?" "Indeed," he replied, "I don't care, because for that good I see a greater ill." "And what is that?" asked the knight. "Ah, noble man," he replied, "in there they have mortally wounded Sir Gawain, your brother and mine." "Gawain?" he exclaimed. And thereupon his grief was so great that he fainted.

-Vulgate Lancelot, c. 1220, trans. Samuel N. Rosenberg and Carleton W. Carroll

They pushed and shoved at one another and Mordred fell backwards from the force of Gawain’s spear and landed on his shoulders, badly wounded. Sir Gawain leapt onto the man and seized him by the head. His grief was ready for this moment but so, unfortunately, was destiny. He pulled out a short knife from a silver sheath intending to stab Mordred in the throat with it; but the cut never occurred. His hand slipped and slid on the shiny chainmail as Mordred slyly shot a hand under the man on top and heaved him off, then drew a knife of his own and stabbed Gawain through a gap in his helmet, through his head and up into his brain. Sir Gawain was gone, that good man of arms. [...] "He was a giant amongst men, that’s for sure," Sir Mordred [said]. "This was the good Sir Gawain, the most considerate, the most gracious man ever to live under God’s Earth, the strongest with weapons, the happiest in battle and the noblest and most courteous in the king’s hall. He was openly praised as having the bravery of a lion and if you had known him, sir king, in the land where he lived, his wisdom, his knighthood, his accomplishments, his leadership, his courtesy, his courage, his fighting skills, then you would lament his death for the rest of your life." This traitor allowed a tear to trickle down his cheeks. Then he turned around and said no more but went away weeping, cursing the day that destiny had dealt him such a blow.

-Alliterative Morte Arthure, c. 1400, trans. Richard Scott-Robinson

I love weaving together strands from different Arthurian versions, because you can find incredible parallels like this. In the Vulgate Cycle Lancelot, we see young Mordred (in his pre-villain days) breaking down in terror at the thought of losing his older brother, so grief-stricken that he "fell down upon a bed and wept and cried and wrung his hands and tore all his clothes."

And yet in an ironic twist, in the Alliterative Morte Arthure it's Mordred himself who ends up killing Gawain at the end of their story. Yet we still see the same love and hero-worship for his brother that the younger Vulgate Mordred had, and like his younger self, Morte Arthure Mordred breaks down in tears at Gawain's death (no longer a prospect but now a reality), despite having been its cause. He "went away weeping, cursing the day that destiny had dealt him such a blow" - filled with grief and remorse at what he's done, but too late to undo it.

[liminalpsych]

A multifandom fanfic writing Discord server that I’m on (run by the fabulous Cora Maria) hosted an event: present a 12 minute slideshow about your rarepair.

I haven’t done presentations in so long and forgot how much I enjoy it. It was so fun! Maybe I’ll expand this and record a YouTube version or something. (Here’s the slideshow, with messy haphazard speaker notes that include lots of extra Vulgate quotes that I never got to share in the presentation. I had to trim back so much for the time limit.)

I translated everything in fanfic/fandom terms for the target audience (though I did clarify the difference between “literary tradition” and “fanfic” first), which led to amusing takes such as:

“The Lady of Malehaut, also known as “Lady Bloie” (from Palamedes, not the Vulgate) or “Eglante” (source uncertain) or “Y/N” (ladies in medlit romances often didn’t have names, and one theory is because one of the primary audiences were court ladies, and this allowed them to self-insert or imagine themselves in place of the ladies of the stories… the medieval version of y/n).”

The theory of Chrétien de Troyes being such a puritanical antishipper that he hired a ghost writer to write the adultery parts of a Lancelot/Guinevere fic commission.

“There are a lot of knights, and this made it easy to insert an OC knight or four. Different authors had their favorites and sometimes even wrote character bashing fics (Gawain was the character everyone either loved or hated, his characterization is all over the place).”

Comments from the discord included stuff like

“Lady Y/N of Y/C (your clan)”

“That’s so cool that by writing Arthuriana you are arguably adding to the literary canon”

“Lmao hating a ship so much that you hire a ghostwriter so you don’t have to write it”

“And they were knight-married!”

“Four is such good company” translates to “Can I pleeeeeease join the polycule?”

“Lady of Malehaut to Guinevere (pointing to Lancelot and Galehaut): I want what they have”

“Omg enemies-to-lovers!” (Re Galehaut/Lancelot)

And everyone was very mad that Post Vulgate + Malory’s Morte Darthur erased Galehaut/Lancelot and the Lady of Malehaut. And then people wanted to read the Vulgate (see L’s guide to getting started with Vulgate here, btw).

Mission accomplished :D

[gawrkin]

Sir Galahad, in Battle

[...]

[...]

From Vulgate Cycle -Quest for the Holy Grail

Link to a previous post about Galahad in Battle, in Post-Vulgate

[queeringclassiclit]

Gawain & Lancelot

from Arthurian Legend

propaganda (quotes) below the cut

The Vulgate Cycle:

Gawain: “If God were to grant me my health,” he said, “I’d immediately wish to be the most beautiful maiden in the world, happy and healthy, on condition that [Lancelot] would love me above all others, all his life and mine.”

Lancelot: "I should not be able to kill [Gawain] for all the world, because I think he is too noble. Moreover, he is the man, out of all those in the world that have meant anything to me, that I have most loved, and still do,”

"It is certainly remarkable of you," said King Bors, "to love [Gawain] so deeply when he hates you mortally." "Find it remarkable if you wish," replied Lancelot, "but he will never be able to hate me so much that I stop loving him."

Knight of the Cart:

'However, no business of his own can detain [Gawain], as soon as he sees Lancelot, from dismounting and extending his arms to him, as he embraces, salutes and kisses him. Now he is happy and at ease, when he has found his companion. Now I will tell you the truth, and you must not think I lie, that Gawain would not wish to be chosen king, unless he had Lancelot with him.'

Lancelot and the Hart With the White Foot:

Gawain: “[Lancelot] is the best knight alive in the entire world, and moreover the most handsome.”

massive shoutout to @gringolet for compiling quotes about them