#we can discuss it through in ask!]]

[project-sekai-facts]

Your recent update made me wonder about something. I don’t know how much you know about this but wanted to try asking anyway. Hopefully this makes sense? Why would the English translation choose to censor things? I assume translations are being done in America where queer things are slowly becoming more accepted but is that a factor? Are the translators themselves changing certain things due to their own biases? I don’t know who they are and don’t want to assume anything about them, but I can’t help wondering if that’s part of the reason? Or is it because of something like, for example, sometimes movies or TV shows have certain content removed based on where it’s being aired, so is it something like that? Is the game being released in regions where queer content is banned or removed? Now that I wrote it, I feel like this is the most likely answer but what do you think? I basically just rambled in your ask my bad. Also, do you know if the Korean and/or Taiwan servers have censorship too?

oh there's more than just the Asahi thing and i have mentioned it in passing before but i'll cover it properly here. "the miles i fell in love with is so cool" -> "it was so cool! i guess that's miles for you" is definitely the biggest example though.

First off, a minor thing. it doesn't really happen anymore but in the earlier translations they quite often use words other than partner, like "pals" and "buds", in the VBS story. Probably one of the best examples of this would be An and Kohane's 3rd kizuna title, which the JP name was often fan-translated as "Making each other better" or "Raising each other up", and is called "Two supportive pals" on EN. Which does have the same meaning but the "pals" seems so unneccesary when they could've used partners. The original text is Takameau futari, the first part means "to raise" or "to lift" and futari means "two people" or "a pair/couple". So it technically is a good enough translation but using pals when partners would be more accurate to canon just seems.. off.

I’m assuming their avoidance of the word partner is because it could easily be misinterpreted as romantic, but they seem to have moved on from that at this point.

There's also THE POWER OF UNITY where they switch out "love" (daisuki) for "cares about a lot" when KAITO is comparing the relationship between Arata and Souma to Akito and Toya. Daisuki literally means "likes a lot" so often you'll see people translate it as love, though likes a lot is still valid. "Cares about" is not a direct translation but definitely can still convey the same meaning, so again instance of valid localisation it just seems like an odd choice when using love would've conveyed the exact same meaning and been more true to the original.

Then you've got another instance of them not translating daisuki correctly in Dear Me, As I Was Back Then (sorry this one is a wiki screenshot my phone died). This is worse. Like I guess if you really want then it does have a close enough meaning to the original. Like I guess daisuki meaning "like a lot" or "love" could be localised as "you're the best" if you really wanted it too. But even then, the line before this is "I'm gonna show just how much I admire her!". Minori's shout of "I LOVE YOUUU" from the original would be way more fitting here. "You're the best" feels too casual and buddy-buddy - even if Minori didn't know Haruka at this point, Haruka still had a big impact on her life and imo "I love you" would be the best to use here.

There’s also this one from Walk on and on that removes one key thing. In the original, Toya says something more along the lines of “I was able to make this track because I want to continue to be a partner who can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you from now on and always”. This is a bit more similar to the Asahi incident in that they’ve restructured the sentence to make it two, adding in the thing about performing which isn’t even there originally, and replacing “korekara saki mo zutto” with “keep singing with you”. And “keep singing with you” still works, but it’s much more toned down, let’s say. You know what really is odd about this translation though? If the quote I put seems familiar, it’s because it’s also the name of Toya’s event card. Kinda odd they omitted that from the story then, huh? The thing is the translation of the card is very accurate so removing it from the story starts to seem intentional, especially when everything around it is accurately translated like with the Asahi incident. Also doing this removes the fact that the card name references the story so what the hell are you doing EN? It's the same sentence, if you can translate it correctly on the card you can translate it correctly in the story.

There's definitely more than this, this is just what came to mind first and I don't want to make this post too long.

These were certainly... choices. Especially with the ones that avoid translating daisuki as love because they do translate as that on other occasions, most frequently with An and Kohane. I'm assuming the reason they omitted it with the guys is because it's far harder to pass off guys saying that they love each other as platonic because societal expectations or whatever, but I'm actually surprised by the change to Dear Me because normally they're pretty good with Minori and Haruka usually. Like they've translated daisuki correctly for them before and leave in everything else that indicates Minori has a crush on Haruka, so why not this line?

I'm tempted to say that they just change the things that they think are too hard to safely pass off as platonic, but then again they left all of the unsubtle ship teasing in Buddy Funny Spend Time, which has a lot of focus on Minori and Haruka's relationship (and they even added in Haruka saying that Minori makes her heart tickle in her card story), so I'm genuinely not sure why they left that in but then changed one instance of Minori saying she loves Haruka which doesn't even have to be interpreted romantically. Like what is the limit here? An can say she's going on a date (with Kohane) and the WEG regulars can ask who she's been seeing, but Asahi can say he fell in love with Tsukasa's character and it gets removed. Both of them have romantic connotation. The only thing I can think of is that An's comes from a whole card story and event, but Asahi's is one line that's easy to remove. Same with Toya saying he wants to stay with Akito forever.

In other words, it's a mess and I don't think any of what I just wrote is coherent either.

Interpret all of this however you will at the end of the day it’s all just ship tease which is up to interpretation anyway. Except the Asahi thing. That one is a censor.

Oh and the KR and TW servers don’t do this.

[cathodic-clairvoyant]

Oh hi there transfem discussing her experience in the trans community i just had a quick question about your post

What does tme mean?

Oh okay i see i understand, thank you.

What does transmisogyny mean?

Ah I see, I get it.

What's a trans woman?

Oof scary. One last question.

What's a woman?

Thank you for being my own personal google (not like you had anything better to do right?) and derailing the point of your post for my own personal education. I will now add nothing of value to this post in return. Bye bye!

[panharmonium]

Hi! I love your Naruto thoughts and meta posts with all my heart and I want to ask your thoughts on something that has been on my mind literally since I was 13: what do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura? I went from being a hardcore shipper when I was a teenager, to being against any romantic relationship in Naruto after finishing the anime when I was in my early twenties. Nowadays I'm very into platonic love and depictions of friendship and I think the anime's obsession with forcing the "romantic interest" curse upon the main female character robbed us of... so much. There are a few wonderful moments in the anime where Sasuke and Sakura acknowledge each other, but because she's always "the girl with the crush", her actions are so often interpret as irrational or selfish by the fandom.

Hi @riemmetric!  It's great to talk to you again! Sorry it's taken me so long to answer this; RL has been making demands of me lately and it took me way longer to finish writing this up than I wanted it to (then again, I knew from the minute I read your original ask that my reply was going to get long, so I suppose I should have predicted a delay XD)

It's funny, my sister once asked me to choose between Sasuke or Sakura for an “unpopular opinion” meme, and I ended up doing Sasuke solely because I think the negative fandom opinions about Sakura are so unhinged and divorced from the actual text that I wouldn’t even know where to start.  People are entitled to dislike whatever characters they want, obviously, but there are some fandom takes that are, for me, so obviously rooted in bad faith viewings/readings that there’s no urge in me to discuss them.  That said, since you asked, I’m happy to go into my own thoughts on this a bit, with the disclaimer for other potential readers that I only write about fandom things for my own personal enjoyment, not as a contribution to The Discourse. If you don’t like Sakura, great!  I have no interest in changing your mind. Please consider this a sincere invitation to scroll on by and go enjoy whatever parts of the fandom appeal to you.

In general terms: I love Sasuke and Sakura’s relationship as much as I love all of the relationships in Team 7.  If we’re talking about them specifically as a romantic couple, then I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, because I do like them together in a post-canon (to be clear: non-Boruto) setting, after time has passed and they’ve continued to develop individually and reconnect with each other, but I also wouldn’t exactly call myself an intense “shipper,” in the sense that I have no interest in pulling things out from the text and incorrectly citing them as evidence that Sasuke has hidden romantic feelings for her during the canon period. He cares about her in the canon period, just like he cares about Naruto and Kakashi.  That’s not up for interpretation; it’s the text.  But Sasuke during the canon time period does not demonstrate specifically romantic interest in anyone.  

[A note before people who might ship Sasuke with Someone Else emerge to rail against this statement - please just scroll past and continue enjoying fandom in whatever way is most fun for you. It is cool to ship whatever fanon thing you want; I think that’s great!  But earnestly citing any loving or emotional thing Sasuke does re: various characters in this story (yes, Sakura included) as indicative of specifically romantic love isn’t supported by the text. I know there are always going to be enormous subsets of any fandom who insist that it is, and I'm certainly not going to barge into anyone else's space to complain about that (because other people having fun together is harmless and none of my business), but I'm not obligated to indulge it on my own blog, either.]

Anyway, that said - the reason why I love Sakura and Sasuke’s relationship (from here on out I’ll use “relationship” in a general, non-romantic sense) is precisely because Sakura isn’t just “the girl with the crush.” Sakura has an arc when it comes to Sasuke, and its trajectory moves in the exact opposite direction of “irrational” or “selfish.”  She specifically goes from “the girl with the crush” to “the girl who steels herself and tries to put her personal feelings for Sasuke aside for the greater good” to “the girl who knows she can’t put her feelings aside, but who also knows full well that Sasuke doesn’t reciprocate them, and who still wants to save him regardless, because he matters to her as a person and a friend.”

[I'm putting the rest of this under a cut to save everyone's dash, and also to emphasize once again that this is a personal post on my personal blog which I wrote in response to a question from a personal acquaintance, the full content of which no one is obligated to read. I am not sending this post to random strangers and forcing them to look at it. I'm not even putting it in the character tags. I'm typing it up on my own blog and putting it under a cut. If you already know that you don't like Sakura, but you still click the link/read the post and then feel an urge to comment and complain, I am going to copy-paste this disclaimer and remind you that I specifically recommended that you scroll past and go have fun with fandom in your own way. Thanks in advance for responsibly curating your own fandom experience!]

So, from the top:

1. the girl with the crush

Sakura is, obviously, completely obsessed with Sasuke at the beginning of Part 1.  She’s also deeply clueless about him and his history (bizarre though it is, the story seems to indicate that she initially doesn’t know what happened with his family, the same way young!Obito is initially clueless about Kakashi’s father).  But what I like about Sakura and Sasuke’s Part 1 relationship is how this changes over time.

The critical scene that kicks this off happens right at the beginning of the manga, when she and Sasuke are talking by that bench - she complains about Naruto and blames his behavior on him being all alone/having no family to scold him; and even says she’s jealous that he doesn’t have parents to nag him all the time.  This obviously triggers an outburst from Sasuke, who tells her she has no idea what loneliness means and that she “makes him sick”/she’s “annoying” (importantly, the exact same thing Sakura said to Naruto in anger earlier that day), which in turn prompts Sakura to reassess herself and wonder whether she’s been making Naruto feel this terrible all the time, too:

From that point on, it’s a process of her putting little pieces together.  She still has a MAJOR crush, and she still acts like a twelve year-old, but as we approach the end of Part I, Sakura actually has a more accurate grasp on Sasuke’s current state of mind than Naruto does.  Naruto is initially excited to fight Sasuke on top of the hospital, because he feels like Sasuke’s finally acknowledging him, whereas Sakura is the one who immediately recognizes that something is wrong about this situation.  She is also the one who, after this fight, is concerned that Sasuke is really unwell and might do something drastic like run off in pursuit of the power Orochimaru promised him, but when she communicates this to Naruto, he assures her that this would NEVER happen:

(Sakura isn't convinced, though, because she goes to monitor the exit out of the village anyway.)

I’m not criticizing Naruto for his response here.  I ADORE hearing him say that Sasuke is too strong to need Orochimaru, with such perfect confidence - I love seeing how much respect and admiration he has for Sasuke underneath all their fighting, because that’s the whole reason he’s always baiting Sasuke and yelling at him and claiming “you're not so great!” He looks up to Sasuke; he wants to be like Sasuke; he thinks Sasuke is awesome! (It’s that Obito @ Kakashi behavior, you know?) But the fact remains that he is clueless about what’s actually going on with Sasuke in Part 1, and he remains clueless(ly optimistic) for a long time.  

(Eg, when he catches up to Sasuke during the retrieval arc and Sasuke climbs out of that cursed seal coffin, Naruto waves at him and calls "Come on, let's go!" as if Sasuke has been successfully rescued and is now going to come running home.  Even in Part II, when Naruto hears that Sasuke killed Orochimaru, he beams and immediately says, “So he must be on his way back to the Leaf Village!”  And everyone else in the room is like, “....,” because they know better.  Naruto doesn’t yet fully understand [or doesn't want to accept] the extent to which Sasuke has willingly chosen this path, and it’s not until after Jiraiya’s death/the Pain attack/the Five Kage Summit that Naruto really starts to understand Sasuke more clearly, which is something he himself admits.)

Sakura, in Part 1, has access to more information about Sasuke - she’s there for his first dissociative monologue during the bells test, she’s there for the curse mark’s placement, she’s there for his first violent transformation in the Forest of Death - she is, in fact, the unwitting catalyst for it (“Sakura…who did this to you?”), and her compassion is the reason Sasuke is later able to overcome the curse mark’s influence - so she has a more accurate/complete picture of “how he’s doing,” for lack of a better phrase, whereas Naruto, who doesn’t know about the curse mark in the first place, is still in the dark.  This means that Sakura is able to accurately discern that Sasuke is struggling more than Naruto realizes, and specifically to predict that he’s going to run away.  

(This dynamic is then interestingly flipped in the back half of Part II, since at any point after the Five Kage Summit, Sakura doesn’t have access to extremely relevant [if currently questionable and unproven] details that would in any other circumstance inform her behavior).

Of course, just because she has more info in Part 1 doesn’t mean she has some kind of miraculous insight into Sasuke’s every thought and feeling.  There are parts of her attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village that are as clueless as any of Naruto’s assumptions, and they showcase the kind of magical thinking common to childhood - like when she says that if he stayed with her, she could give him happiness, she’d do anything for him, even help him get his revenge - this idea that she herself can do something to make him feel better, that she can love him powerfully enough to defeat his pain - obviously none of that is rooted in realism.

Is this part of her approach irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered?  Of course it is!  But it’s no more irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered than Naruto’s stated plan to drag Sasuke back to the village even if he has to “break every bone in [his] body!” 

Hating on Sakura for her Part 1 attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village while simultaneously lauding Naruto for his feels like a bad faith misread of what is, to me, pretty clear narrative intention.  The story doesn’t at any point intend for us to see her begging him to stay as a selfish or conniving attempt to get something she wants.  She’s begging him to stay for the same underlying reason that Naruto is: she cares about him.  She thinks he’s making a mistake that will only cause him more pain in the end (she’s right) and she wants to make it so he feels less pain right now (she can’t.  But she doesn’t understand that/isn’t able to admit that, and she’s willing to try ANYTHING that might help).  

It’s critical that this farewell scene is set in front of that same bench from their first important confrontation - she references that day and how angry he got at her, and this time she tells him that she understands his reaction.  She’s learned things and she recognizes how insensitive she was being back then (“I know what happened to your clan, Sasuke”), even though she still can’t fully grasp all the complexities of the situation. She tells him that him blowing up at her back then helped her understand what loneliness actually meant (as opposed to her previous shallow understanding of it), and she challenges him about his choice right now: "So that's it, you're choosing the lonely path?" And when she tells him that she'll be very lonely if he leaves, we're immediately shown a panel of Sasuke thinking of both his friends, with the very clear implication that if he goes through with this, he will be lonely without them, too - that he's still struggling with the idea of leaving them, no matter how hard he tries to pretend:

Sakura at this point knows that Sasuke isn’t interested in her the way she is in him, but she still wants to give him happiness, however fantastical and immature her ideas sound to us (and, I’m sure, to him).  “I’ll do anything, even help you get your revenge/we'll have fun every day, and...and you'll be happy! I'll make sure of it!” - of course, it’s completely childish.  It’s irrational.  It’s ridiculous to think that any of this would ever be effective, but no more ridiculous than Naruto’s belief that he can simply break every bone in Sasuke’s body and keep him in the Leaf by force.

Both Naruto and Sakura are children who have a deeply oversimplified understanding of Sasuke’s situation.  They both still think they can fix him themselves.  They both think they can save him themselves.  They both think they can convince (or force) him to do what they want, what they think is in his best interests.  Both of them don’t yet understand that he has to want to come back, if it’s ever going to mean anything.  Their attempts to keep him in the village are immature and unrealistic, yes.  What they aren’t, however, is selfish, because neither Sakura nor Naruto are doing any of this with the intention of advancing their own interests.  They’re only thinking about Sasuke - how to keep Sasuke safe, how to make Sasuke happy - even when neither of them are taking an approach that will actually work.

Naruto and Sakura are children.  They’re afraid of losing somebody they care about.  Their attempts to prevent that from happening are desperate and messy and ultimately ineffective, but they are also genuinely felt and rooted in a true desire to rescue Sasuke from his pain, which - and this is the single most important thing that should impact our viewing of Part 1 - is something that Sasuke RECOGNIZES.  He doesn’t spend that agonizingly long moment bowed over Naruto’s defeated body so we can pretend he doesn’t understand that Naruto was just trying to help him.  He doesn’t take the time to murmur, “Sakura…thank you,” before laying her out carefully on a bench, just so we can discount it and pretend that he doesn’t recognize and appreciate her genuine intention to make things better for him, however clumsy that attempt might have been.

2. the greater good

If Stage 1 Sakura is "the girl with the crush," then Stage 2 Sakura is a progression to “the girl who decides to put her feelings for Sasuke aside in order to protect innocent people, including (but certainly not limited to) Naruto.”  She’s driven to this decision by interactions with Shikamaru, who all too recently had to grow up fast himself (“We're not kids anymore...we can't allow a war to break out between the Hidden Leaf and the Hidden Cloud because of Sasuke") and Sai, who risks his new friendship with Sakura and Team 7 in order to speak some hard truths and deliver one of my favorite lines in the whole story: “I don’t know what promise Naruto made to you, but it’s really no different than what was done to me.  It’s like a curse mark.”

(INCREDIBLE.  How can anybody be complaining about a season where Sai gets to say something that goes THIS HARD and Sakura LISTENS and takes DRAMATIC ACTION that actually propels the story forward in a meaningful way - )

[Okay, yeah, brief personal opinion interlude - it is just bonkers wild to me that there are people who complain about Sakura in the Five Kage Summit arc. That entire season is the greatest character arc she ever has.  Literally she has never been more interesting and dynamic than in Season 10; it’s the first time she ever gets to be as deep and fascinating as the boys; what is everybody so worked up about?  Oh, “she lied to Naruto that one time” - Sasuke joined infant-kidnapping baby-murdering human experimentation machine Orochimaru when he was twelve years old in order to (dare I say it????) selfishly pursue his personal goals and yet, somehow, we are still able to root for him.  He abandoned his friends/allies to imprisonment and death (Suigetsu and Jūgo) or outright stabbed them in the chest himself (Karin) in order to (SELFISHLY) get what he wanted, and yet, somehow, we are still able to love him, understand him, and be on his side.  Naruto is canonically not upset with Sakura about her lie after receiving context for the situation and I think we can probably take our cues from him without feeling the need to bring her up on war crimes; please calm down]

[Sorry, I just really love most of Season 10 and think it’s one of the best examples of how good this story can be when every single character gets to do something that matters (as opposed to things being all Naruto, all the time) so I get a little bit worked up over people complaining about some of the best writing Sakura ever gets.  I don’t understand what certain elements of fandom want from her. People complain about her being “useless” and not doing anything that contributes to the story, but then they complain just as much when she does finally get to act decisively and have just as complex/dynamic an inner world as the boys.  She’s “weak” for being unreasonably in love with Sasuke, but when she tries to be “strong” and put her love for him aside and eliminate him in order to protect Naruto and the rest of the world, she’s evil, because she should have been more understanding of his situation (despite the fact that she doesn’t KNOW anything about his situation).  But then when she can’t go through with killing him after all because she cares about him too much despite the things he’s done, she’s not "compassionate" or "kind" or "a good friend," she’s “weak” again. Nothing Sakura does in S10 is more wrongheaded or rash than any of the batshit, buckwild things Naruto and Sasuke have done in the past (and will continue to do in the future), but when Naruto and Sasuke have big feelings or take bold action, it makes them interesting characters, whereas Sakura can’t breathe in anyone’s direction without being minutely scrutinized for moral impurities.]  

Anyway. Back to a more measured response.  

Every single piece of development Sakura has with regard to Sasuke in this season satisfies me so much.  Her initial shock and disbelief at hearing that Sasuke had joined the Akatsuki?  Good, appropriate.  The fact that she starts to acknowledge the reality of what Sasuke’s done sooner than Naruto does?  Also extremely appropriate, very in-character for both of them.  Her taking Sai’s words to heart and deciding that the promise she asked Naruto to make when they were children is causing him to suffer and she has to relieve him of that burden?  Juicy!  AND thematically significant (promises!!!!  the burden that a promise places on a person, especially when it can't be kept - we've seen that before in this story and we'll see it again).  Her anguished pivot from wanting to protect Sasuke to realizing that she has a responsibility to protect the countless innocents who will die because of the war he’s trying to start?  HELLO THIS IS INCREDIBLE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.  Her knocking out the classmates who agreed to help her so they don’t have to share in her burden (and so the only person Naruto will hate when it’s over is her)?  BRUH.  Her being so committed and focused on her goal of saving innocents and protecting Naruto (not just from being harmed by Sasuke/the Akatsuki, but by the possibility that Naruto will someday have to hurt Sasuke himself) that she tries to take everything on by herself and walks into a confrontation that she absolutely cannot win??  INCREDIBLE.  (Literally the first time I watched this, I said, “Finally!!!  It’s Sakura’s turn to go off the rails!”  I laughed with my sister about how Kakashi isn’t even mad, because Naruto and Sasuke have been pulling stunts like this for years and Sakura was way overdue for her own meltdown.)  And then, after Kakashi intervenes in the fight - Sakura barreling back into the battle when she realizes he’s going to take on the burden of killing Sasuke himself in order to spare her and Naruto the horror - “I can’t let Kakashi-sensei bear this burden!”  I love her for that.  

And then, of course, in the end - her not being able to do hurt Sasuke after all.  Despite committing herself to the act, despite forcing herself to put her feelings for him aside, despite resolving to stop him from starting a war and killing innocent people, she can’t harm him.  She cares about him too much.  This, too, is thematically significant - think about Itachi’s “you don’t have enough hatred” - she doesn’t have enough hatred to kill someone she cares about, even if it seems like he deserves it, even if would be the right thing to do to protect others.  She can’t do it, and Sasuke almost kills her for her compassion.  

I love the dynamic this sets up between her and Sasuke, for a few reasons:

1) Personally, I think Sasuke respects Sakura much more for trying to kill him than he would have if she’d just tried to talk him out of his behavior or beg him to come home (a la their original confrontation in Part 1).  This is the first significant interaction he’s had with Sakura in years, and the fact that she does something SO contrary to his memory of her is an important demonstration of the fact that she’s not the same girl she used to be.  Sasuke spends a lot of time after his defection declaring to his old team “I’ve changed; I’m not that person anymore,” but this is one of the moments where he’s forced to acknowledge that his teammates have changed, too.  Time didn’t just stop for them when he left.  While he was turning into someone new, so were they.  They grew up without him, and his old memories of them can’t encompass the whole picture of who they are now.  

(This is a little tangential, but in general, I love the spectrum of reactions that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have in this sequence, and the way that all of them are ultimately messages Sasuke needs to hear.  Sasuke - who we know textually regrets what he did here, who apologizes to Sakura for it later - for “everything,” in fact - needs Naruto’s aggressively optimistic open-arms policy, yes, needs that potential, that unconditional possibility of return.  He also needs Sakura’s refusal to let him hurt her friends and start a war that will kill thousands of people, needs her surprisingly ruthless attempt to take him down; needs just as much her failure to do so, because it shows him that she still loves him too much to kill him even as she condemns him.  And he needs Kakashi’s grim line in the sand, needs someone who very possibly won't hesitate like Sakura (despite the horrifying personal cost), someone who will try to reach him but also won't let him escape and become the next generation’s Orochimaru, who won't let him cause untold suffering to untold numbers of people just because a teacher loved him too much to stop him when he had the chance. 

(And then even Kakashi chooses not to deliver a killing blow when he has the opportunity -)

(I know that in fandom people are more likely to be all, “oh, Naruto Good, everybody else Bad,” but I don’t think the narrative frames Sakura or Kakashi as “worse” than Naruto in any way.  The story goes out of its way to make it clear how desperately they don’t want to hurt Sasuke and how much they care about him.  And [this is just my interpretation, so obviously I won’t claim it as fact], I personally think that Sasuke - Sasuke, who, looking back, can see how lost he was then and how tortured he would have been if he’d gone through with many of his plans - would be grateful to Sakura and Kakashi for making an attempt to stop him when he couldn’t stop himself.)

2) On the other side of this, the fact that Sakura wasn’t able to deliver the killing blow means a lot. Sasuke was incapacitated under that bridge; he was completely at her mercy - but she stopped with the kunai an inch from his back.  She couldn’t kill him, even though she knew that he was completely willing to kill her (because he'd attempted to Chidori-assassinate her from behind just a few minutes ago).  That’s huge!  Sasuke is too out of his head right now to process this or understand it, but later, it's going to matter.  She stayed her hand.  She spared his life.  She loved him too much to hurt him, even when he’d given her every reason to take him down.  She hesitated, and he almost killed her for it, but her inability to strike him ultimately gave him yet another chance to come home, another chance to get better, another chance to have a life outside of his pain.  Despite everything, some part of her still hadn’t really given up on him, and that knowledge will matter later, when he’s finally able to acknowledge it.  

The point of all this is to say that I really have no complaints about Sakura and Sasuke’s dynamic in their S10 confrontation.  This season is the point where Sakura fully grows past her “girl with a crush” stage and into her “shinobi must make very harsh decisions” adulthood, but it never means that she doesn’t care about the person she’s trying to take down.  Her ultimate inability to deliver the killing blow remains a dangling lifeline for her relationship with Sasuke, an open door that Sasuke is able to walk through at the end of the story (literally, in fact, when Sakura opens that portal for him and saves him from Kaguya’s desert prison, and figuratively, too, when Sasuke apologizes to her).

3. she only wants to save you

The last stage in their relationship is what Sakura settles into during the war arc.  She started off Part 1 being just a girl with a crush, then tried to harden her heart and put her feelings for Sasuke aside in service of the greater good, but she was unable to actually follow through and kill him, and because of that, what she’s come to accept by the war arc is actually two things: that 1) Sasuke truly is willing to let her die if it furthers his goals, and 2) she wants to save him anyway.  

She has no intention of pursuing Sasuke romantically.  She knows full well that Sasuke isn’t interested in her.  She even knows that Sasuke isn’t really on their side (there’s a great scene where Sai questions Sakura about Sasuke’s return, and she reassures him that everything is fine, and Sai sadly thinks to himself “even I can tell your smile is fake”).  She’s well-aware that Sasuke didn’t try to help her when Madara stabbed her.  She’s well-aware that he left her to die in the lava pit.  She’s also well-aware that none of this is enough to make her stop loving him.  He doesn’t have to care about her - she still cares about him.  She still wants to help him.  She still wants to save him.

This is not hidden, hard-to-parse character development.  It’s explicitly articulated on the page:

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.

I’m not sure if people look at this last confrontation and unquestioningly take Sasuke at his word (as if we haven’t just read 71 volumes/watched 700 episodes showing us how how painfully distorted his thinking is), or if they stop reading/watching before the end of the scene, or if they don’t understand that Sasuke saying something doesn’t make that statement an accurate representation of reality.  The entire point of this scene is to show us how deeply mistaken Sasuke is about Sakura (and, by extension, the rest of Team 7).  He’s locked into a false pattern of thinking.  His single-minded focus on revenge and destruction has blinded him to the unconditional love his friends feel for him; he’s become so accustomed to using others and being used that he can’t understand or accept that someone would care about him without needing a reason, without needing him to love them back, without needing to receive something from him in exchange.

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.

Sasuke matters to Sakura as more than a love interest.  He always has.  She does love him romantically, yes, but she doesn’t only love him romantically, and her desire to help him is not and has never been contingent on him returning her feelings, romantically or otherwise.  Sasuke isn’t able to acknowledge that in this scene, but that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to just sit back and agree with his warped perspective.  Kakashi is the one who’s explicitly positioned as the voice of the narrative here.  We, as the audience, are supposed to recognize that Kakashi is the one telling us the truth.

[tangential thing 1: You don’t have to love Sakura's last plea to Sasuke here. It’s not my favorite, either - the best part, other than Kakashi’s speech at the end, is the moment after Kakashi collapses when Sakura’s expression changes from pained uncertainty to pure rage, when she grits her teeth together - when I first saw that, I almost leapt out of my seat like “Oh my god.  She’s finally going to let him have it.  It’s finally happening - ”  I wanted that so badly, and I still think it would have been a more effective writing choice for Sakura’s last words to lean more into her anger at the suffering Sasuke is causing all of them (himself included!) and less into yet another of Kishimoto’s “let me have Sakura articulate what a shame it is that she can’t do as much as Naruto despite the fact that I literally just went through a major reveal sequence in the war to show that she’s caught up to the boys; I can’t make up my mind about whether I want her to progress or not” - it’s extremely frustrating (and it's something he does at the very end of the S10 Team 7 reunion, too, which is the ONLY moment of S10 that falls flat for me).  But at the same time, even if there are ways this sequence could be more satisfying, it doesn’t change the fact that her plea to him is not remotely motivated by a desire to be with him romantically and not anything to condemn her for.]

[tangential thing 2: I do like how she remembers that moment when Sasuke says “Thank you.”  That panel precedes her saying “If there’s even a tiny corner of your heart that thinks about me…” (which I’m sure is one of the things that people like to criticize about this scene, aka “oh she’s sooooo self-centered” etc), but that particular line of dialogue is preceded by that particular flashback panel for a reason: Sakura knows that Sasuke DOES think about her.  He thinks about all of them.  Sakura remembers that “thank you,” and it reminds her that despite everything Sasuke has done and said since, despite all evidence to the contrary, she knows in her bones that his expression of gratitude back then was genuine.  He cared about her once.  He cared about all of them.  She’s trying to reach the part of him that still does, if it exists.]

[tangential thing 3: The fact that Kakashi says “she suffers from loving you,” and it triggers Sasuke to remember his own family - thinking about how much he suffered (and still suffers) from loving them - “Perhaps…those are the ties to a failed past” - the idea that it’s not worth it to have bonds if it means you suffer this much…that it’s too difficult, it’s too painful, and if Sakura and the rest of Team 7 were smarter they would just give it up (all Sasuke knows how to do now is sever potential bonds before they can hurt him; so why aren’t Sakura and the rest of his teammates doing that, why can’t they let it go, why are they making this so hard - ) << yeah, he clearly doesn't care about her/them at all.]

4. the shadow of my family

This has all been a really long way to answer the original question, but the short response to “What do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura?” is “I really care about it,” just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto, just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Kakashi. And I don’t think the story ever asks me to choose between them.

I’m not sure whether it’s the impact of Boruto-era “canon” that gets in the way of other people approaching things this way (I don’t consider sequel material when I evaluate the original story), or if it’s Kishimoto’s frequent disinterest in/disrespect towards female characters, which yes, does sometimes make it harder, or if it's a shipping thing (bane of my existence), or some combination of factors, but for me, taking one member of Team 7 out of the equation hobbles the rest of the story.  I can’t read/watch Naruto while hating one of the protagonists and loving the other three.  It doesn’t work like that for me.  The story wasn’t written that way, and there’s nothing in the text that would cause me to receive it that way.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with disliking one of the main foursome (or any character, for that matter) - obviously we're all going to have different preferences, and everyone is free to enjoy or reject whatever parts of a story they want, or to like or dislike whatever characters they want. I know that some people have more fun disregarding canon and doing their own thing, which is fine.  My own personal zone of enjoyment comes from receiving the story as closely to how I think it was intended to be read as I can, and personally, when I look at this particular story, what I see is that all the members of Team 7 clearly demonstrate their love for Sasuke in ways that he himself later recognizes and acknowledges. All of them are driven by their desire to save him and their unwillingness to hurt him. All of them make repeated choices to chase after him when he runs away, to trust him when he hasn't exactly earned it, to give him another chance when he doesn't appear to deserve it. ALL of them, not just Naruto, do these things multiple times throughout the story, and Sasuke owes his life (and thus his eventual recovery) to ALL of them, many times over. Kakashi disobeys Hokage-elect Danzō and breaks the law to negotiate for Sasuke's life with a foreign head of state. Sakura and Kakashi both have opportunities to kill Sasuke in the Land of Iron, and they choose to spare him instead. Kakashi stops Sasuke from killing his only friends at two different points in the story, which would have been a mistake Sasuke couldn't have recovered from. Sasuke would have died in Kaguya's desert dimension if Sakura hadn't saved him (Sakura, who knew that Sasuke wasn't even truly on her side yet, who knew he'd abandoned her for dead multiple times already that day). Kaguya's bone bullet would have killed Sasuke too, if Kakashi, with his intention to die in Sasuke's place, hadn't leapt in front of it (Kakashi, who also knew that Sasuke wasn't fully on their side yet, who also knew that Sasuke had abandoned him for dead earlier that day). Sasuke and Naruto would have BOTH died in the Final Valley if Sakura and a severely injured Kakashi hadn't chased after them to heal their injuries.

Remove any one member of Team 7, and Sasuke never makes it home. Without the combined efforts of all three of his teammates, he doesn't survive.  That’s the way it should be, thematically, for a story whose first and most foundational premise was the importance of teamwork, and since Sakura was just as essential to that framework as everyone else, I’m just as invested in her relationship with Sasuke as I am in his relationship with everyone else.  You can’t remove one leg from a four-legged stool without damaging the integrity of the entire structure, and for me, discounting any single member of Team 7 irreparably damages the integrity of the entire story. 

TL;DR: I love all of the Team 7 relationships, including Sakura and Sasuke's, because despite what some segments of fandom seem to believe, the text of the story never gives me any reason not to.

[phoenixcatch7]

I know 'person with secret to hide spots other person with secret to hide but doesn't say anything' is like. Thee trope in superhero crossovers, but come on! Some of these guys have been doing this for decades! There's tons of heroes that have gone to pretty extreme lengths to be Completely Imperceptible in civilian life.

Don't you think it's scarier, after all is said and done, to sit there and think I didn't notice a thing? I wouldn't have ever realised? I would never have known? To know that someone you were familiar with - close with, even! - had this whole other personality and skillset and powers and experiences and life just behind the curtain, and they hid it so completely you didn't even see it was there.

'I always knew there was something off' what if you didn't. How world shaking would it be to be so utterly blindsided? To know that this person had somehow learned to so deceptive?

[luna-rainbow]

hi, different anon. i wanted to add to the thoughts but i'm shy. i assumed bucky's rules were set up because his moral compass was skewed by his time with hydra (not necessarily in a way that makes him a bad person, just in ways that alters his perspective on what situations need force and who maybr deserves rough treatment). we saw clearly in the series that bucky doesn't mind breaking the law or hurting people he considers bad, he is also impulsive and self-destructive. i always assumed the rules were given as actually needed guidance to help him face former-hydra associates.

Hello Shy Anon:

There was no indication, up until TFATWS, that Bucky was ever impulsive, or “doesn’t mind breaking the law”. He stayed under cover for 2 whole years while Steve, Hydra, and everyone else who wanted the Winter Soldier (and there were plenty, judging by Zemo’s auction) were hunting for him. The only story that characterises him as that is TFATWS which is the very series that treats him like he had agency as the Winter Soldier.

The “doesn’t mind hurting people who he thinks is bad” is kinda the defining trait of every MCU superhero so I’m not sure why Bucky specifically needed rules to stop him from doing that — except, of course, the narrative didn’t believe he was a hero until he had the magic boat-fixing scene that fixed his trauma and apparently his wonky moral compass too.

Also, the only action that comes across as impulsive is him breaking Zemo out of jail, which already makes no logical sense for Bucky to do and I’ve already talked about it at length 20 times before so I’m not going to again. Him hacking the car then calling the police to arrest the Hydra senator was highly premeditated and not an example of impulsiveness.

Sorry if I am sounding cranky, anon, but a lot of these have been discussed ad nauseum in the 12 months after the series’ release and I’m not keen to retread the issues and attract fresh disk horse. If you read the post I linked in that ask, I talked about the narrative intent in rewriting Bucky to be aggressive and volatile. The story didn’t know how to handle him except “Winter Soldier bad, he needs a (Black) found family to fix him” while ignoring the fact that he already had the same friggin arc in Civil War to Black Panther.

Also why was he being sent to face former Hydra associates on his own as part of his amends when Raynor called him a civilian?

[away-ward]

Hey KO, pd said the reason damon named fane.. fane was to honor rika's father since he respected him after realizing her father still wanted to raise him despite his origin. he wasnt named to honor rika but to honor her father.

That's great actually, and it makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[fabaceous]

Is there ever a hypothetical world where Jackie and Shauna’s situation is reversed (as in Shauna dies and Jackie makes it home)? And if so, how do you think Jackie would react and deal with it?

this is ANOTHER of my favorite cans of worms to open lately so THANK YOU for giving me an opportunity to talk about it!!

i was thinking about this mostly because i was thinking about how shauna's hallucinations of jackie provide us with such valuable information about shauna's thoughts/feelings/desires, how she thinks of jackie, how she thinks of herself (via jackie). hallucighost jackie i think sort of has two sides that are intertwined but serve different purposes - there's one side that's more straightforward and even sweet: it shows how shauna, in her grief and pain, wants to remember jackie (the fun, lighthearted moments; braiding her hair, joking about randy). the other side is more dark but gives us just as much if not more insight into shauna: she uses jackie as a mouthpiece for her own bad thoughts about herself. hallucighost jackie is the whip that shauna self-flagellates with. and she punishes herself, but she's also sort of repressing the fact that she even feels guilty (which maybe is why she needs jackie's "ghost" to guilt her, because she can't admit to herself that she feels guilty). and it all must hurt even more coming out of jackie's mouth - which, if you think about it, is probably why she does it (better fuel for her guilt complex).

ANYWAY, i digress (sort of). my point is, i've always wondered what we could learn from jackie hallucinating shauna. how would jackie want to remember shauna, but at the same time, how might the memory of shauna torture jackie?

if we do a simple swap and have shauna leave the cabin when jackie tells her to during their fight and then shauna freezes, that's one option. we get jackie feeling both immensely hurt by shauna's nearly inconceivable betrayal but, at the same time, feeling guilty for sending her out there. this could lead to some interesting hallucinated convos and, personally, i 100% think it could also lead to jackie doing shauna's makeup in the meat shed lmao. (and thats how you know they're made for each other!)

BUT ALSO. shauna's betrayal (i mean, combined with jackie losing her social status in the wilderness and having the other girls turn on her ofc) made jackie so depressed that she was unable to eat, and shauna dying on top of that would have the potential to completely destroy jackie's will to survive. it would be a big ask, at that point, to get jackie through to rescue. id say its pretty likely she dies of a broken heart, so to speak. like, just loses all her remaining will to live (because her will to live was literally hanging on by a thread and that thread was shauna). the only way i can imagine her surviving long enough to go home is if she has a complete and total break from reality and like, just sort of dissociates from the entire year-plus that follows. i think (? let me know if you agree bc this actually just came to me while writing this and im not sure if it holds up) that if the writers really sold it right, they could convince me that jackie basically goes catatonic and retreats into some fantasy world (one where shauna is around, of course!) for the rest of their time in the wilderness. not exactly the way shauna talked to jackie in the meat shed, because shauna knew she was hallucinating and was more or less able to walk away when she had other obligations. i think jackie would actually legitimately just lose her grip on reality, and succumbing to this would be the only way for her to survive. kind of like the bacchanal but about, like, everything.

the other scenario that occurred to me (and it's a pretty awful way for shauna to die and makes me really unhappy btw, so, sorry in advance) is what if shauna's abortion attempt had gone really, really wrong and she had gotten an infection and died from that? obviously jackie has no clue at this point about jeff/pregnancy/rutgers/etc so its pure unadulterated heartbreak. taissa could play a really interesting role in this situation as the only other person who knows this huge, earthshattering secret. would she keep it from jackie? i think that would be the prudent thing to do. losing shauna would already be almost too much for jackie to take, but she could maybe survive that by designating herself as the keeper of shauna's memory and she could probably convince herself she owes it to shauna to stay alive because if jackie dies then shauna is gone for good. but, as we've seen in canon, finding out that shauna betrayed her sends jackie into a really dark place where she doesnt have much will to live. i think she could plausibly survive with her sanity intact if one or the other happens (shauna betrays her OR shauna dies) but, as i discussed above, experiencing both would either break her sanity or effectively kill her.

and i suspect taissa is smart enough to realize this too, so if she wants to keep jackie alive she'll withhold this information (hide/burn the journals?) and let jackie cling to whatever romanticized image of shauna she comes up with. once they get back to the real world, who knows? taissa might tell her because she feels like jackie deserves the truth, jackie might read shauna's journals from before the crash in an attempt to feel close to her again and find out that way, or even jeff might tell her (worst case scenario IMO)... and im honestly not sure what jackie would do at that point, like, murder jeff maybe? (im joking but i actually am not sure how that whole situation would play out. maybe depression 2.0 but in the real world, but that's not as fun as murder.)

i haven't even said what i think jackie would hallucinate, so lets end with that. for shauna, it's primarily about self-flagellation and self-punishment, although it has some ability to soothe her as well, like when she imagines having fun with jackie.

for jackie i think its actually fairly simple: its obvious to all of us that what jackie wants most is shauna's authentic and full love, and my personal theory is that the main (and maybe even sole!) function of jackie's hallucinations would be escapism and wish-fulfillment, and imagining that shauna really did love her.

jackie doesn't have a self-destruction/guilt complex like shauna does. jackie, i think, would be able to just feel guilt in a more straightforward way. as well as anger! so in the scenario where shauna freezes after their fight, jackie would certainly be feeling a lot of guilt, but she doesn't need or want shauna to remind her, she could just apologize. and she's feeling a lot of anger, but she'd be able to say it to shauna's (hallucinated) face instead of putting it through some twisted alchemical process that turns it into something else. like, i think she actually does have a chance of getting closure in a way that shauna doesn't because shauna would never let herself get closure because then she'd have nothing left to fuel her guilt/self-destruction complex.

i think jackie would want closure for her immediate anger and guilt about shauna's death, and because she wants it, she'd be capable of getting it. but after that's dealt with (assuming she survives long enough to deal with it), or in a scenario where jackie doesn't know about shauna's betrayal/isn't responsible for her death, i really think (and i just made myself sooo miserable realizing this btw so you're welcome. or i'm sorry) that the thing that would cause jackie eternal and relentless pain for the rest of her life would be the immense regret and the feeling that she didn't love shauna enough, or didn't love her right. and her hallucinations of shauna would, by and large, simply be an outpouring of all the love she didn't get to show her in life (and imagining the reciprocation of that love that she always wished shauna would give her).

[ssreeder]

newest chapter reminded me of like a beach episode in anime where it’s fun low conflict that still moves the plot along yes yes

also don’t know bout you but i’m getting never ending rain which yay but also ew cause it makes outside Worse. now a flashback to book one with sokka out tied up to the pole in the rain 😑

i sit Patiently for the next chapter Patience is a Virtue

OH MY GOSH HIIII!!!

yeahhh hehe last chapter was my beach episode. It was a fun mix of ‘ugh they’re so annoying’ & ‘awwww I lub them’

once again Jee has stolen the show, he’s definitely beach episode material haha.

I’m actually fine with the rain, I have lots of grass and trees so it’s happy for the feeding!! … my biggest concern is the hurricanes already acting up and what that means for our upcoming season ahhh…

dum dun dunnnnnnnnnnn….

& I love that you’re being patient because you’ll need to be this chapter is being difficult (i blame iroh & zuko)

LOVE YA GABBYTRIL I HOPE MY FLORIDA BUDDY IS DOING AMAZING!!

[most-fuckable-ff14-lady]

Interrupting silly and goofy time to talk about something serious.

The following post will discuss sexual abuse, though not in great detail. If mentions of this subject cause you discomfort or distress, please respect your own limits.

Recently one of the polls was reblogged with some tags asking us to exclude Yotsuyu due to her backstory and potential insensitivity towards other SA survivors. We found this to be an extremely reductive mindset for several reasons, including:

It assumes members of this blog have not suffered these experiences.

It assumes there is only one way to react to trauma.

It perpetuates a "thought crime" mentality where attraction alone must come with consent unless it be viewed as problematic.

It holds SA survivors in a stasis of trauma and forced purity, denying them the agency of sexual expression or being seen as desirable by others.

We cannot speak for all survivors, only for ourselves. By including Yotsuyu (and we do intend to leave her poll active), we are doing what is most comfortable for us. We hope you can understand where we're coming from. If certain polls cause you discomfort, we urge you to disengage with them for your own wellbeing. 💗

mods kels, grey, azia, and viking

✨ Resuming silly and goofy time ✨

[lususnatura]

🎤 🎤 🎤

a song that i associate with my muse meme!

AHH, hey, ramone!! thank you for sending in this prompt :D since you sent in three of the mic's, i shall now be treating you to three songs that make me think of blamore when i hear them / that i associate with it. an explanation of why i chose them will be in the tags <3

hozier - who we are.

icehouse - crazy.

depeche mode - personal jesus.

[mariocki]

Fat Man on a Beach (HTV, 1974)

"I'm going to read some more poems now. Erm. It may be that if you want to go and have a cup of tea, this would be a good time. I know that's what you masses are like. The mention of poetry and off you go."

[dxxtruction]

VENT - I feel like if there was better education around abuse and violence, and abuse and violence prevention, we'd be able to interrogate more how it is so much a community, cultural, and systemic problem, and arguably less of an individual one. This does not dissuade any fault individuals have in creating violence and perpetrating abuse, just so no one's confused here. We have to see that violence and abuse perpetrators do take the responsibility for their actions. Obviously. But to open this up to wider responsibility would lead to far better discussions about wtf was going on at the anti-black lynch trail wrt Armand's complicity and level of fault in it.

Far too many people are unwilling to see that he was not the one to orchestrate or plan this, because they'd rather pin violence and abuse all onto a single individual. (Which is dehumanizing btw, to us even because it implies we've accepted these terms for ourselves as well).

This is an expectation I'm aware just isn't possible though, and Interview!Fandom certainly is not ready to confront this. Not everyone was when it came to the abuse Lestat perpetrated in S1 (those who watched an entirely different show apparently and deny how race played a role in the violence and abuse, throughout just everything not just Lestat). So it's just gonna be me and the handful of others IG. Shout out.

(more to this in OP tags)

[hooved]

i dunno if this is like weird advice to give, but for anyone who is or has a partner/friend/etc. who's interested in a threesome (or more), you gotta make sure that everyone involved is emotionally ready for that. if you or someone else might get jealous, then just don't do it. don't lie and say you're ready just because you wanna make your partner happy, or because of peer pressure, or even just because you're attracted to someone involved, etc., if you're having any doubts at all then just say so. this is something you need to discuss thoroughly beforehand. jealousy or any other sort of emotional discomfort during group sex WILL negatively affect your relationship(s) with whoever's involved. if sex is an experience that's very important and personal to you and you're not ready to share that with someone other than your partner(s) then there's no shame in turning it down. a good partner wouldn't be upset by you setting boundaries. your comfort is more important than the opportunity to have a threesome

[bluesey-182]

haha major yikes. we're supposed to have family dinner at my grandparents on sunday for father's day and my dad doesn't know if it's just my parents and us or if the whole family is invited, and the latter will be a problem bc i blocked my cousin on absolutely everything months ago with zero explanation and that will be suuuuper fucking awkward if they're gonna be there

[northern-passage]

do you rec god of war (from what you've played)? i've been looking for new rpgs to play but i feel like im 50/50 on this game

so for ragnarok, i haven't really played too much yet to have a real opinion, i've literally only played about 2 hours, and a lot of it has been cutscenes setting up the narrative (like a lot of cutscenes. i was surprised but i'm into it because i like my games with a juicy story. i have seen others complain about this though but i'm withholding judgement since i know i'm still early on and the game is clearly easing me into the story, and i haven't even gotten into the "open world" part yet) BUT that said i have enjoyed what i've played so far.

as for god of war, the first one from 2018, i haven't played it in a few years but i would still 100% recommend! i have some criticisms of that game but nothing major, just that i felt like the characterization of atreus was inconsistent and some aspects of his character arc felt shoehorned in (i can't really say specifics without spoilers)... however i can still excuse it as him just being a kid, and overall the game is really fun and i do still like the story and relationship between kratos and atreus, and all of that outweighs the mild criticism. the combat with the leviathan axe is literally my all-time favorite combat in any game, i love it so much. they did a really good job making both the axe and kratos himself feel very heavy and powerful.

also the character designs are really good. i've been losing my mind over thor in ragnarok so far, and i really like freya (who is in both games) and all of the valkyries. the regions you get to explore are fun, the "fish out of water" greek god dealing with norse gods is interesting, and i like that the core of the narrative in the first game is very mundane, despite everything else that happens. and with the sequel, it feels organic, like the 2018 game clearly set up ragnarok with the way it ended so i do feel confident in ragnarok even though i haven't played much.

i've never played any of the previous god of war games so i can't say anything about those, i went into the 2018 one pretty much blind and only knowing that kratos was the god of war, though i did eventually skim some wiki pages but even then i still have minimal knowledge of kratos' history. which honestly kind of adds to it, for me personally, at least. we know he's done terrible things, we get glimpses of it through kratos' memories, but it's in the past and now he's trying to be better.

so if any of that sounds interesting, you should check it out :-)

[dimiclaudeblaigan]

If Edelgard starts a war on cats it would be a CATastrophe. Bad pun aside, it really speaks volumes when people are so enamored and defensive about their fave that they're willing to say "racism, genocide and terrorism is good actually". Fiction may not affect reality most of the time, but it exposes views that some people share that makes you go "yikes.".

I can't believe I didn't even think of that when I wrote it LOL.

For people missing the context, this ask is in response to a reply I wrote on another post.

When it comes to media, it's one thing if there's nuance to the situation and it's not as direct (is she being brainwashed? Controlled? Forced? Somehow unaware? Shown to be conflicted about her actions/what she says? etc). In her case though that's not present and she means what she says. Even still, liking her as a character is fine.

It's different when people start using real life situations or making outright harmful rhetoric, which is something they do both to lift their favorite up and to vilify her enemies (which is why they have to reach so hard, and farther than their arms actually can reach to make up reasons to hate Dimitri. It's not him, it's the fact that they hate anyone who opposes Edelgard, and if Edegard wants them dead they also want them dead. Unfortunately that also turned into demonizing those with mental illness).

Fiction in and of itself doesn't affect reality or indicate what a person is like irl, but their behavior toward others is no longer fiction. Story wise you could argue it makes an interesting character to have these flaws and villainous traits, but it's another story entirely when people double down to insist their characters' actions are just and they go into detail to force it down people's throats - 99.99% of the time unprompted, when that character actively associates with people who have willingly and intentionally committed genocide and aims to do the same herself by finishing the job.

Which you'd think she wouldn't because... those same people wiped out all her siblings, but okay. Somehow the CoS is worse than them. I guess bc Agarthans are human at the end of the day, so no matter how inhumane and atrocious their actions are, they get a pass as long as there's a non-human in the vicinity. Racism typically goes hand in hand with genocide, so. Yeah.

It's not even just that though - it's how the arguments go that indicates if a person is just trying to defend their favorite. If they start brainlessly spewing harmful rhetoric at real people, and if what they say would actively defend real life issues, it's concerning. It's the manner in which they defend their favorite. If the way they argue is exactly how American-hard-rights defend themselves, it starts becoming uncomfortable for people and no longer applies to just fiction.

If what you argue sounds exactly what irl politics sounds like, that's a pretty powerful indicator of who you're dealing with. It doesn't matter if they are or claim to be American-left (specifying because Random said it's different in Europe!). If their arguing points shit on all the values American-lefts stand for, they are not, whether they like it or not, arguing for the left (which all stans claim to do, and then they start regurgitating American-right political stances, extremely often at the expense and discomfort of actual American-lefts. Might I remind you that one of them, a straight man, used abortion and gay marriage both being legally in jeoprady as a gotcha to argue for Edelgard).

It doesn't matter what you claim you're doing. If your arguments actually start reflecting things that can be real, you need to be careful about how you word it. Houses deals with a political atmosphere very heavily, which shouldn't have really been a problem... but it got too close to real life politics within the fandom and people's true colors started to show.

It should have been "I love Edelgard but damn some of what she does is fucked up" and not trying to vehemently defend every singular word she's ever said. As I've mentioned in my very lengthy "why the writing failed Edelgard", the writing is partly to blame for people being divided on her, but it's the fans' own faults if they can't draw a line between liking her character and supporting things in a way that makes it sound like you'd support them irl.

It's even worse that all that nonsense picked up really badly right around the time Ukraine got invaded and Putin was out there spewing nonsense. It became a sensitive issue to have people defending Edelgard invading other countries proudly with false claims/propaganda, because the arguments fell perfectly to a T in line with what Putin was doing.

Evidently that didn't matter to the people who never touch grass and waste their time and energy only thinking of defending Edelgard instead of just enjoying her character, but then, they don't really even enjoy her character; they just enjoy their made up version of her who fights for what they want her to fight for instead of realizing what she's actually doing. These people would be damn easy bait for irl politics and it shows. Dangerously.

So for anyone arguing about your fictional favorites, remember that context is important and how you treat the topic(s) at hand are just as important. I absolutely adore a villain just like Edelgard because of good writing, and there are points I can actually defend him (if you've been on this blog for more than like a week you prooOOOObably know who I'm referring to AT THIS POINT lmao). That doesn't mean I'm going to call invasion, racism, etc good and just for his better talking points to be achieved.

In my opinion Edelgard ended up poorly written because the writers wanted to be bias in the context of the story but couldn't properly justify the atrocities. I'll be honest, if this is how they handle (main) female villains, I'd rather just not have them. I'd rather go back to the days of Petrine and Hilda who were side villains and allowed to be as disgusting and horrendous as they wanted.

If writing a lead villain who is female won't work because they can't stop pushing their bias into the writing (don't even look at poor Petra, she got SKEWERED in CF and especially in SB) and it reflects poorly, I just don't want it. I know men at the writing table for some wild reason throughout the years have been unable to properly write females (which like, why. Just write human beings. But no, they seem to act like females are a different entity entirely), but if that's going to remain the case, I don't want them to write them in situations like these because they clearly can't handle it. They treat Edelgard as a trophy wife who has to be perfect for them and not as a complex, legitimate person.

Mind you, I also made a post before about how Edelgard is separated from other female villains by being drawn as "attractive". Ishtar gets treated much better than other female villains as well, with Heroes going as far as to outright shit on canon and give her an alt where she "joins the Liberation Army", which... the whole point of her character and her fighting in that war was that she was on the opposite side but wasn't a bad person. I could argue similar things for Burian, but that's more headcanon/literally based on just his death quote lmfao.

Point being, Ishtar is drawn to be attractive. Petrine and Hilda are not, and are outright villainous, terrible, not complex people at all (Hilda is a hypocrite, but she's not complex). Edelgard was drawn to be attractive, and was thus not treated like a villain proper. Unfortunately this got warped into the fandom we know now, but... like we both said, the way they argue for her is pretty telling and honestly pretty scary. Let's not forget that they've spewed death threats at people simply for not liking Edelgard.

No, that last sentence was not a joke nor an exaggeration. In a way it makes sense though, considering they defend genocide, racism, etc.