#would lwj still protect wwx if he didn't have feelings for him? yes

[layzeal]

i absolutely eat it UP that one of the reasons wwx is so hesitant to believe lwj has feelings for him is that he can't tell if lwj treats him with so much goodness and kindness because he's simply that good of a person or if there's ~something more to it~

and!! here's what gets me: he's 100% right to question that. because from all we know, lan wangji would still have protected and done everything he did even if he wasn't in love with wwx. it all comes down to his beliefs, and standing up to them by protecting him. wwx is afraid to jump to conclusions because his fears are genuinely very well based!

[ninjakk]

Hi

This is more of fanon question but what do you think of stright boy wwx, who everyone knows he’s gay but him, doesn’t know his feelings even though he’s having sex with lwj.

And lwj still does shave sex with him even though he does think wwx is stright and won’t have feelings for him.

Hi Anon,

Wow, is this really a thing!? 🤔

I think they're reading a different book 🤣

Well my honest opinion would be that whoever thinks this really does not have much of an understanding of the characters in MDZS, or the plot for that matter. Whether this is something that some truly see in the novel or something they put in fanfic, it's just bizarre.

Firstly, only a few people made assumptions with regards to WWX's feelings towards LWJ. Really it was only the juniors who noticed something between them. JC was in denial the whole time (across both WWXs lives) until he couldn't deny it any longer - and even then he tried! Personally I think WQ noticed WWX acted differently around LWJ and at some point WN picked up on something between them as well. But bar that, most people wrongly thought the pair hated each other! So that's just wrong right from the start!

WWX is extremely emotionally intelligent, he understands people very well and that includes himself as well. Yes, he lies to himself and pushes his true feelings down at times - but this is a coping mechanism. He feels so deeply, his only way to cope about certain emotions that might bring him pain, is to play them down or convince himself they are different to what they are.

WWX is just trying to protect his heart. He lies to himself about his feelings for LWJ because to him, the latter wasn't interested. Yet WWX was still drawn towards him every time they met, because LWJ is the only one he's ever truly wanted. By the time WWX and LWJ have sex, WWX is more than sure of his feelings for LWJ! In fact just before all of this, WWX is so sure of his feelings he's absolutely terrified LWJ might not feel the same way.

So I think any idea of a fanon or fanfic WWX that is as emotionally dense as 'straight boy' WWX is, is just so far from the actual character, I don't see the point in them reading the novel, being a fan or writing fic using WWXs name if this is their take on him, as it's clearly not the character MXTX created.

As for LWJ having sex with this warped version of WWX, he simply wouldn't. As much as LWJ loves WWX, he would not have meaningless sex with him just because the latter 'doesn't mind'. Just looking at the end of chapter 95 and chapter 96, where WWX thinks LWJ has only just sobered up and is upset that they had sex. This scene should be enough to show anyone that this is not in LWJs character. WWX desperately tries to salvage their relationship because he loves LWJ so much he wants to be with him anyway he can. So he makes it out it was just something friends do! LWJ is so distraught at the possibility WWX didn't have romantic feelings for him, yet shared an extremely intimate moment with him anyway. How can anyone think he would just have sex with WWX if he thought WWX wasn't interested in him. It just wouldn't happen.

So again, I think that this fanon idea or whatever it is, is just so far from the truth it's just strange! Anyone who wants this to be canon should just go find another novel to read quite frankly!

It can take time to understand your sexuality and shaming a character who actually realised it pretty fast considering the circumstances, is just shallow and ironically makes them the "oblivious" ones they so often like to accuse WWX of being. It's obvious WWX would have realised his sexuality a lot sooner if LWJ had given him a little hint back when they were teens. Which isn't LWJ's fault of course, because people seem to forget he was coming to terms with his own feelings at the time as well! But if he'd given WWX a sign, he'd have been spurred on and pursued LWJ until they were a couple.

In WWX's own words:

"...If he doesn’t want me, I’ll bother him to the point that he does.”

Chapter 125 - Lotus Seed Pod extra, ExR

Although he wasn't fully prepared to accept what context the above proclamation was in, he still meant it! 🥰

I'm guessing you feel the same way about this obnoxious interpretation as well Anon, since you used the term fanon 😉 so that's a relief! Have a lovely day and enjoy the canon version of WWX and LWJ in all their true glory ❤️

[rekishi-aka]

⭐️ for the Director's Cut ask game

Thank you anon!

I finally have time for this and I thought about it, because I have lots of things I want to talk about - also from fics I haven't even posted (yet?). But I want to talk about something from The Long Thoughtfulness of Night

"Let me protect you sometimes," he added and let his hand fall away from Wei Ying's face, even though he wanted to wrap him up and never let go. "But Lan Zhan," Wei Ying said with a strained laugh as he turned back towards him, "you protect me all the time!" Just not when it really counted. It was uncharitable, and Lan Wangji pushed the bitter thought away. He had accepted Wei Ying's decision not to come back, after all. Keeping his voice even, he said instead, "I would do it more often." Those must have been the wrong words, because Wei Ying's expression turned serious. At least he had yet to let go of his hand. "Lan Zhan, I don't want to ruin your reputation. Last night you burned almost all your bridges. I don't want you to do that, not for me." What had that reputation ever done for him, Lan Wangji wondered. When was the last time he had cared for it? That Lan Wangji was harbouring Wei Wing was tarnishing his reputation. That Lan Wangji was touching Wei Ying like this, when his feelings ran so deeply, was inappropriate. He was beyond caring though, and xiongzhang had not even assigned Wei Ying separate quarters — even though, from a political point of view, agreeing to this was at best unwise. "It is my decision." He shook his head and when their eyes met and locked, something swooped and pricked in his chest. He took a breath. "I will walk with Wei Ying on the single plank road into the night." He had said the same words last night, echoing Wei Ying from the last time they had spoken before the siege of Nightless City. Unlike last night though, it failed to make Wei Ying laugh in relief. Instead, he stared at him, lips slightly parted and muscles tense. Lan Wangji could only return his gaze and try to smile, even as his heart clenched painfully in his chest just like this morning when he had watched him lie unconscious. He wanted... many things. "Lan Zhan." Wei Ying licked his lips and something had shifted in his expression. Relief? Joy? "How long?" The words were so innocuous. How long had Lan Wangji been loyal to Wei Ying? How long had he wanted to protect him? But the question in his eyes was a different one, and Wei Ying was right that they knew each other. How long had Lan Wangji felt for him this way? The answer was easy. "Long enough."

This was my first foray into The Untamed fic, which I needed to get a handle of (do I still have 72k unedited? yes. I even have title for that one! anyway, moving on).

I didn't want to (for reasons of more or less hitting the tone of the show) voice the feelings outright. But LWJ is so tired of it all and he has WWX back after sixteen years or them being separated by death and he has grieved and raised their son and kept grieving despite everything. He wants WWX in his life, and he doesn't care about his own reputation, although he has to. Because part of their safety hinges in LWJ's reputation and on the protection of his brother.

WWX is more than aware of this. Both, because he tarnished his own reputation pretty well, but also because of the precarious position he was in in his first life and is now. If the sect leaders had gotten their way the night before, he would be dead. LWJ protected him, and he knows - at least in this fic - at this point that he loves LWJ.

And they never would have voiced their feelings outright (and couldn't in the show for censorship reasons anyway). So both of them need some plausible deniability in this scene and I'm so proud that I managed that here.

At the same time, I remember writing this a few years ago, in the throes of the pandemic, I posted this January 2021. Writing was one of the things that still worked for me at the time and it was such a weird feeling back then, sort of dreamy, sort of feverish (I didn't have covid), trying to find the right path and the right words early mornings and late evenings while pushing work forward, and...yeah.

It was a weird period, but I loved writing this fic so much. Is still do. It's hopeful, it's quiet, it gives the characters what they want but doesn't absolve them from putting in the time and the energy, but it gives them a reprieve.

And it also introduced me to Chinese poetry, which is a perfect source for titles for C-Drama fic. (God I really need to finish that last one, it will otherwise be haunting me one day.)

Thank you for the ask!

[grewlikefancyflowers]

This feels like a dumb question, but I’m honestly going in circles: What exactly is going with LWJ insisting on keeping WWX with him immediately post-resurrection? How is it in character? What’s different this time around about taking a protesting WWX back to CR?

Is WWX (unconsciously?) not actually as resisting as it seems? Is LWJ driven by wanting to protect him from JC?

It just seems crazy that WWX is actually repeatedly running away and being dragged back by the collar.

I don't think this is a dumb question at all ! Excessively long answer under the cut.

The first and most obvious conclusion is that yes, LWJ was protecting WWX from JC. Taking everything into account - WWX being only recently resurrected and already in danger again, LWJ having already experienced his death once - it is easy to see why LWJ would just pluck him up and take him back to CR.

The juniors themselves do also point out the logic in LWJ's decision making here - 'Lan SiZhui tried to reason with him, “Young Master Mo, it was for your sake that HanGuang-Jun brought you here. [...] Lan JingYi spoke, “That is right. You have seen Sect Leader Jiang’s methods, have you not?' (Ch.11, exr)

While they're not wrong, I think this exchange is far more interesting in its illustration of how LWJ can pretty much kidnap an 'unwilling' person, and people will still think him righteous. Even when LWJ uses the silencing spell on WWX, LXC's only reaction is 'pls be nice to ur new friend wangji :)' To me this whole bit is reminiscent of this quote about LWJ...

'Saying that he [WWX] was actually innocent was even more of a joke. [...] Lan WangJi, though, was different from him. He wouldn’t even have to explain, and people would explain for him' (Ch.50, exr)

So I see that exchange as a example of the commentary on class & privilege in MDZS, rather than some convenient exposition to explain to us what LWJ is doing (though serves as that too).

That being said, while LWJ's initial reaction is understandable, his continuing to keep WWX is a little muddier, but there are some hints MXTX gives us to be able to piece together exactly what might be going through LWJ's mind throughout this early part of the novel. Generally I'd say that while there is a lot of confusion created by identity shenanigans, LWJ is responding to things WWX himself says/does.

First thing to consider - when LWJ says he is taking WWX back to CR, it is in response to WWX saying 'I am very much attracted to people like Hanguang-Jun.' While I don't think LWJ took this as sincere for even a second, I do think this is what made him decide in that moment that he was going to take WWX back. LWJ even warns him, 'mark your words,' telling WWX - someone who has always said/done things like this with apparent obliviousness - to be aware of what he's doing, because LWJ is responding to it. Taking Identity Shenanigans into account, LWJ may not even realise at this point that WWX didn't intentionally give his identity away to him, or that he hasn't realised he's done so, and LWJ obviously doesn't know WWX doesn't remember his confession, and, while they are in public like this, they can't exactly talk openly. Whatever LWJ is making of all this, he would definitely not have any reason to assume that WWX is doing this to disgust him & and make him leave.

We're not given any particular description of how WWX behaves while they're travelling back to CR, but if we assume that he continued with the 'acting gay to disgust LWJ' tactic then... LWJ would, I think, still just probably be confused about what he's doing, and still not assume that the reason WWX is doing that to try to escape. It's not as if WWX has had any problem just bluntly telling him in the past that he didn't want to go back to CR. Most likely LWJ thought WWX might drop the act once they were in private.

And then there is of course the iconic 'drag him inside' scene when WWX is wailing outside CR. On this part I think, as I sort of mentioned above, LWJ has seen how a WWX who is genuinely unwilling to do something behaves, and it is not like this. Since we can probably assume that on the way, WWX did not obediently follow, but instead got up to all kinds of outrageous cut-sleeve behaviour very sincere attempts to escape, is it really that surprising that LWJ is not taking this little tantrum very seriously? At this point, to LWJ, has WWX actually come across as that dedicated to trying to escape? I don't think so.

That being said, while I don't think its quite accurate to say that LWJ literally dragged an unwilling WWX back to CR, its clear that LWJ here isn't at his most sane & rational. Which, tbh, is an understandable response to the whole... situation. But LWJ also does deal with this in his own way, we know that he goes to the cold spring almost immediately after returning to CR, before speaking directly with WWX, the purpose of which we are told is to 'calm one’s heart, clear one’s mind, quench one’s fire.' (Ch.11). If I had to guess what is going on in LWJ's mind here, he's probably imagining he can chill the fuck out in the cold spring for a bit, then go and have a very calm and normal conversation with WWX. Listen, LWJ did spend the 13 years of WWX's absence honing his brat taming abilities, but nothing could have prepared him for the unprecedented brattiness of post-resurrection WWX.

Anyway, that didn't happen, obviously, instead WWX interrupts LWJ, gets dragged back to the Jingshi and thrown on the bed, but before he can go ahead with his devious plan of 'whining flirtatiously' (lol) he gets distracted by LWJ's 'tousled hair and exposed collarbones' brand on his chest... This whole moment, which is honestly just overflowing with sexual tension, is interrupted by the Lan's bed time bell. WWX's hole is safe for now. This is followed by WWX leaping into LWJ's bed, LWJ tells him twice to get off, then asks him 'Are you sure that this is what you want?' - once again warning WWX to think about what he's doing/saying, once again, LWJ only responds to things that WWX himself initiates.

I do also think this interaction between WX is important in understanding LWJ's thought process...

'The YiLing Patriarch’s ghost flute, “Chenqing”, was known far and wide. Yet, right now, with his bamboo flute, he purposely played it with many mistakes [..] Lan WangJi had probably never played with someone with such terrible skills before. After a while, he finally couldn’t bear to continue as if nothing was wrong any longer, and raised his head to look at Wei WuXian with an expressionless face.' (Ch.19, exr)

I think this moment really solidifies for LWJ that WWX is dedicated to hiding his identity from him, even when they are alone and in a fairly pressing situation, WWX still keeps it up. LWJ's behaviour towards WWX changes after this too, instead of letting WWX into his bed - 'Whenever Wei WuXian wriggled into his blankets, he would use a light slap to make Wei WuXian’s body rigid, and then stuff him into the other set of blankets in a proper position.' (Ch.20, exr) He's no longer willing to go along with WWX's games now that its clear that WWX is doing this as part of an act, not his own intentions. Once LWJ reveals he knows WWX's identity, they go back to sharing a bed, and LWJ even starts teasing him back again - eg, 'undress after we return.' Whereas between WWX playing his flute badly and LWJ saying his name in Qinghe, LWJ always rejects WWX's advances, and doesn't make any of his own moves towards him until WWX once again initiates - 'Should I take my clothes off and show you?'. LWJ even refines his bamboo flute, and says to WWX 'Play it properly' (Ch.27) once his identity is revealed, further drawing attention to the significance of WWX's bad playing.

Additionally, it was not LWJ who decides to take WWX away with him once more to investigate NMJ's arm - 'The few nodded, “Okay! Are you going to travel down the mountain?” Lan WangJi gave a slight nod. Wei WuXian had already stealthily shifted behind him, talking to himself in a loud, cheerful way, “Yes, yes, yes, we can finally get off this mountain and elope together!”' (Ch.19, exr) LWJ is still just responding to what WWX says, in the best way he can considering the circumstance.

The only time we actually specifically see LWJ repeatedly dragging WWX back by his collar is - 'Wei WuXian originally wanted to sneak away during their expedition off the mountain. However, even though he attempted to run away multiple times, it always ended with Lan WangJi carrying him back with one hand holding the back of his collar. He changed his strategy, sticking to Lan WangJi as hard as he could. At night, especially, he would persistently climb into Lan WangJi’s bed' (Ch.20, exr)

So WWX pretty quickly gives up on 'running away', instead once again resorting the the equally ineffective unhinged cut-sleeve behaviour. All of which is to say that, no, I don't think WWX is resisting half as much as he wants to believe he is. In fact, I think it's a stretch to say WWX is resisting at all. It shouldn’t need to be said that if Yiling Laozu truly wanted to escape LWJ, he could find a better way to do it than all that. I would say LWJ is very aware of this too.

Final point on this, since WWX seems to not want LWJ to know or acknowledge his real identity, LWJ respects this. He only reveals he knows in Qinghe, which I would say he does for two reasons, 1. he only does this after WWX willingly comes back to him, cementing that WWX doesn't actually want to escape him, 2. after he says his name, LWJ immediately asks him about his encounter with JC. WWX getting hurt after only being separated from LWJ for a short time makes LWJ want to speak plainly about these things, as WWX could be encountering these potential threats relating to his past life.

As for what has changed from LWJ's struggle in the past about taking an unwilling WWX back to CR, the change is in LWJ himself. Whereas the younger LWJ had a lot of internal conflict over his own motivations towards WWX, which was only fed by WWX's immediate assumption that LWJ wants to imprison or punish him when he expresses his concerns over WWX's modao, the present LWJ is far more self assured. He's not the same LWJ who succumbed to his own desires and kissed WWX on phoenix mountain, WWX himself comments several times on his improved ability to tolerate WWX's teasing.

There's also the point that, when taken in the context of WX's whole relationship, these interactions at the start of the novel take on this far more light-hearted, flirtatious tone that might be initially lost in a first time read through. Differing translation choices also can change the tone here too - I found FYY's and tamingwangxian's translations to come across far more flirty than exr's. Overall, we see WWX repeatedly enact his 'outrageous cut-sleeve behaviour,' ostensibly with the aim of disgusting LWJ, yet despite him never actually succeeding with his supposed goal, he continues doing it anyway, even to his own detriment. This all just follows the typical pattern in their interactions, which MXTX described as 'the one who is teased is the gong, the one who failed in his teasing, and ends up getting screwed instead is the shou.' (Ch.17 author's notes, tmwx).

Honestly, there is so much more to be said on WWX's behaviour here, and how he delights in having this excuse to behave this way towards LWJ, but this post is long enough already.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Hey Orion, there was this blog that was open to discussion about whether WWX and JWY would ever reconcile. I'm someone who likes to debate and seeing this rare JC blog actively saying "Yes I'm open to a civil discussion" I basically went "Oh sweet! Can't believe I can have a civil discussion with the wrong sort of JC fans". Orion it's been three weeks. The blog still hasn't answered my ask. I have given up waiting. They might answer it, but who knows, my points were on the "WWX doesn't want a reconciliation so there will be no reconciliation" and "JWY is a homophobe and WWX won't want that energy around him, given that he's very much gay and very much in love with LWJ" and some other points that I added but forgot.

It'll be sad if they didn't answer it because they found out they're wrong and stubbornly held on to a fanon interpretation of JWY.

RIP, I fully feel that, if there was to be a reconciliation, MXTX would have written it.

She had done that for Lui Qingge and "Shen Qingqui". Shen Yuan was able to rewrite the plot in order for them to become friends and for Lui Qingge to become the "brother/martial brother" that Shen Qingqui had needed for a lasting friendship that in the other verse had been ruined and decimated with Yue Qingyuan. What he needed was not a savior complex but someone who was willing to be a loyal friend without the underlying issue of broken trust between them. Despite Lui Qingge's abrasiveness he is utterly caring and soft-hearted to those he loves and doesn't hold expectations over their head that are ultimately unobtainable for either side. He accepted his friends actions and let him make his own choices. What was needed between Shen Qingqui and Yue Qingyuan was closure which Shen Yuan was able to give by drawing a line that both could move on in life without continued guilt.

In Tian Guan Ci Fu, she let that reconciliation happen between Xie Lian and Mu Qing. Mu Qing was able to admit to yes his own fault and blame for the dissolving friendship between them. He admitted that he was jealous and that made him think unjustly of Xie Lian so much that he had been unfair and cruel. But he was the one willing to reach out and protect Xie Lian once more, he was the one to step up to mend a very broken relationship and also had the maturity to realize that Xie Lian did not need to feel like further friendship was owed. He let Xie Lian decide to keep Mu Qing in his life without throwing a fit that he was owed a place within Xie Lian's new life. He did not force himself on Xie Lian to demand to take him back as a friend or insisted he was owed it after reaching out to help.

Both have a massive stark contrast to the way Jiang Cheng is the major cause to Wei Wuxian's downfall. Neither of the above two were the ones to overtly harm their former friend by aggressively targeting them. Unlike the above two, Jiang Cheng did not better himself within the time he was granted away from Wei Wuxian. He stagnated and used that time to further insist that Wei Wuxian was the one to blame for all the wrongs within his life. That is not the basis for any reconciliation. Wei Wuxian knows that it is not something he himself wants and has no need to want to ever pursue a relationship that was built on his give to Jiang Cheng's taking. That is not a friendship or anything based within equality or the basis of anything to ever be equal even with sorries. Mo Dao Zu Shi is not a plot about forgiveness, it is about moving on from an unreconcilable past, and making the future better with the happiness you are granted and not being jealous or envious.

[typoqueeenie]

Let's take a moment to appreciate all those wholesome relationships that this show presented us with. They will be with me for years to come💜✨ [LONG READ]

1) One of the most underrated relationships of the show. The unconditional love that Qing had for her brother, was so wholesome! She would look at him & see the entire world tranform into one person. While for A-Ning, his sister WAS his world and beyond.

2) There are brothers, there are fathers & then there is Xichen to his Wangji. From reading his baby brother like a book to taking away his pains before they crossed his path - he was the family Wangji deserved.

As for LWJ, Xichen was embodiment of God.

3) Again such underrated relationship. People only saw the way NMJ was harsh towards NHS but what they failed to see was how he loved his him beyond words. He protected him like a delicate flower.

And for NHS, NMJ was his home, refuge & utmost safety.

4) Shows seldom portray such a pure, unconditional relationship in a completely platonic relationship. Were they friends? Were they like siblings? Were they acquaintances? I don't know. But whatever they were, they were eachother's familiarity, home.

5) What Ning felt for Yuan was so beautiful. Ning was always taken care of by others but it was only with Yuan, did he feel this fierce protectiveness for. Not only were they the last ones surviving from their family, they had a connection so intangible.

6) These 2 have my heart. There were times when I used to think Wen Ning was an alternate representation of WWX. They shared their traumas, homes, loyalties. Both were terribly misunderstood by the society so they chose to turn to eachother for comfort.

7) Not making excuses for XY or his toxic obsession for Xingchen. However XY is a WWX gone horribly wrong. He's never felt a shred of emotion in his life - & the first time he did? He didn't know what to do with it. And that was portrayed so beautifully!

8) It might've started on a wrong note, but the way their relationship progressed throughout the show was beautiful to watch. The understanding, the maturity and the utter devotion they showed for eachother was so pure. We all knew Yanli was in love the moment she laid eyes on him, but Jin Zixuan only had Yanli's name on his lips even on his last breath.

9) The subtlety in their relationship could've easily missed but it was there and it was glaring for me. The way they jumped in to take the hit for eachother throughout the show was beautiful! They were so different in their own ways but together, they were eachother's best confidants.

10) Again, there might be differences in opinion here but their relationship was an absolute treat for me to watch. I loved their back and forth banter and the humour but beneath all of that there was also this hidden unconditional love of two people who had lost their everything and only had eachother to survive. They were eachother's support and weakness. And probably only reason to be alive.

11) I loved the growth in their relationship over time. From despising WWX to understanding him as a person, starting become fond of him and then finally somehow acknowledging him as his uncle - the growth was beautiful to witness. And WWX's obvious fondness and protectiveness towards him was so warming. Everytime he looked at Jin Ling, it was like WWX got his Shijie back!

12) You can hate Meng Yao all you want to but one thing that you can't deny is the fact that he loved Lan Xichen beyond all his agenda, revenge and very reason of existence. If there was one person whom he had any unconditional feelings towards, it was him. And it broke him completely to see that distrust in LX's eyes. And for Lan Xichen, Meng Yao was that one person who could never do any wrong. What a sad parallel to WangXian indeed!

13) I really really liked their interactions right off the bat. But what I didn't realise was how I would grow so attached to the beautiful relationship they'd eventually develop. I'm again amazed at how they have paid minute attention to even the smallest things in a completely platonic relationship! What wwx felt for Mianmian was responsibility and respect for being the strong woman that she was. But what Mianmian felt for wwx was unwavering gratitude, awe and immense respect. Her taking a stand for him when everyone kept quiet and him still remembering her even with how poor his memory was, says a lot about their mutual respect.

14) Another so so underrated relationship of the show! One of the things that hurt me was how wwx got distanced from such a beautiful friend over time due to the unfortunate circumstances that he was in. Wwx found a brother in NHS whom he could be himself with unabashedly. And in wwx, NHS found a guide, a partner in crime and a person through whom he manifested all his desires and wishes. It was one of the purest relationships and a classic example of "Friends are families that you get to choose for yourself".

15) However short their time together onscreen was, they left an undeniable effect on me. The way they silently kept on giving for the other person without a moment of hesitation, was so beautiful to watch. Xingchen was not only ready to give away his eyes but even his life for him while Song Lan was ready to dedicate his entire life to Xingchen, his memories and the time they've spent together.

16) You don't need me to tell you Yanli & WWX loved e/o. What needs to be acknowledged is how he was her world. In her eyes the little kid on top of the tree could do nothing wrong. When every single person showed their doubt - Yanli was unmoved. And it's like all of wwx's worries would just fade into a mist when Yanli & her soup were around. I believe wwx was fond of the soup not only because of the taste, but he had associated it to his shijie's presence. Losing Yanli was an irreparable loss.

17) I know there are diff in opinions here but JC & WWX are one of my favourite relationships in the show. Yes there were flaws & misunderstandings there but at the end of the day, the fact doesn't change that they were ready to die for eachother. With JC's every longing glance masked by misplaced accusation & every sad smile of understanding & helplessness from WWX, you could see every fight, harsh words & shoves came from a place of intense love. More than brothers they were each other's confidants first.

18) RANT ALERT: There was never, there is none & there will never exist a love so epic in magnitude.

While WWX's fast paced world came to a screeching halt when he met lwj, LWJ's monotonous life gained pace when he got hit by this sudden tornado.

For LZ, he understood the meaning of life when he met wwx. He understood there was much more to it than simply doing what is told. His love was so intense, he didn't even need the other's acknowledgement. He felt it, wwx was safe - that was enough.

For WY, lwj was that rein that didn't suffocate him rather guide him. He showed him how to love & let go. He made him understand actions spoke louder than words. It was lwj staying beside him through the end, that spoke louder than any words ever could.

[plan-d-to-i]

the truth – at least to me – is that the closest from the novel, the better. for exemple, I am madly in love with the manhua and I love the audio drama. and, to be honest, yes. I hate the changes. Omg, I feel like if cql was an adaptation of something else, I would like It a lot, but it's from mdzs. they changed the small details, which are the ones that make the whole point?! wtf is up with wx's relationship in the past?? wwx and the whole Wen remnants mistreatment stuff??? wwx making lwj drink against his will?? omg,

I hate it

what build their relationship were the small details, the fact that they were not really friends, not really enemies, not really lovers, not really had a classification bc— it was very fucked up because of the circumstances and miscommunication!!!! the whole point is that they are not so close yet, lwj couldn't do anything insane to help yet, they didn't know they were soulmates yet!! in cql, it feels like wwx is doing to lwj the same that he does to the Jiang siblings, pushing him away to protect him from the dc to keep lwj's reputation safe or something, when. WangXian Essential Point Is That Wwx Does Not Need To Risk Himself Or Be Alone To Protect Lwj, bc, for the first time, somebody who he loves is strong enough! can keep themselves on their own feet!

IS GOING TO HELP HIM, NOT TO SCOLD FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING!!!

and the personalities— oh fuck, I WAS ROBBED! give the fuck to me my wwx who wants to fucking eat the rabbits, who was glad to be expulsed from lqr's class, the one who doesn't cry much and the one who actually has A LOT OF EMOCIONAL CONTROL!!! GIVE MY MAN BACK!!! AND WTF IS UP WITH THE WAY HE DIED ON CQL???!!! DID THEY REALLY WANT TO CLEAN IT UP TO JC SO BAD??? THEY! EVEN! MADE! WEN QING! HELP WEN RUOHAN!!!!!!!! WHAT THE FUUUCKK!! MAKE JGY MAKE THE 'EVIL' THINGS WWX DID FOR SELF DEFENSE??!! WWX WAS AMBUSHED, THAT'S WHY HE ATTACKED!

Wwx never moved to harm people without provocation!

so, yeah. they lost the point of the whole fucking thing with the changes. what the FUCK AND THE WHOLE FANDOM ACTS LIKE THIS SHIT IS CANON!!! they do be thinking wwx's demoniac cultivation is bad for his health and is going to kill him💔 that JC is a little meow meow who did nothing to deserve that end 💔💔 wwx moraly gray 💔💔💔 RESENTFUL ENERGY CONTROLLING AND AFECTING HIM 💔 I HATE THIS ONE SO MUCH WHY THE FUCK DID THEY MAKE THIS?! wwx can't be attacked and attack back without an explanation? fuck, he was attacked, that's the explanation! that's why he killed so many!!

and I didn't say even half! so, in this essay, I will—

haha I love the formatting of this, I completely agree with you. Also love the art style in the manhua, love the audio drama etc. BUT I can't believe you made me read "JC is a little meow meow" with my own eyes.

I'd just add- personally even if cql were an adaptation of something else I would still have problems with the plot having loose ends and the flow of the story- but it's true that comparing it to mdzs makes its shortcomings all the more glaring. AND not only did they make Wen Qing help Wen Ruohan w the Yin Iron ©Yang Xia bs, but they ALSO made her put up w jc's: here's a comb but leave your fam to die love ballad.

[xiyao-feels]

In this post I'm going to argue that the common position that LXC did not know JGY was going to kill the Wen he had with him in episode 23 is wrong. I think the evidence that he did know is considerable, and in fact the only evidence against that position is the framing which casts JGY executing them as being extremely evil. Although LXC and JGY's exchange after the sect leader discussion (the "Am I the evil?" exchange) is often taken as additional evidence that this is JGY's moment of no return on his journey to Evil, I think this is due to a misinterpretation of the exchange, which I will also argue below.

In Part 1, I show that LXC has unambiguously agreed to a plan which involves the execution of at least some Wen, and therefore the central question is whether he was expecting the particular group of Wen JGY brings in with him to be spared; I also argue that he has plausibly agreed to have even certain non-combatants killed. In Part 2, I contrast them with the Wen Jin Zixun is killing to argue that they are not, and also present the evidence that LXC has also agreed to the killing Jin Zixun is doing. In Part 3, I consider the lack of motive JGS has for having JGY, behind LXC's back, kill Wen he explicitly agreed with LXC he would spare. In Part 4, I discuss the "am I the evil" exchange, and in particular argue that the "evil" NMJ is opposed to is not JGS, as seems to be a common assumption, but the Wen. I conclude by examining the remaining evidence and arguing that it is insufficient to overcome the rest of the evidence.

Part One: What to do with the Wen remnants?

In episode 23, as WWX and LWJ discuss things, we hear distressed cries accompanied by calls of Kill them! and Kill them all! (This starts at about 17:47.) We are told that people are capturing the remaining Wen, and it is very clear what they are doing with the Wen once they catch them.

The next scene is JGS, NMJ, and LXC discussing what to do with the remaining Wen, joined partway through by JGY. I encourage you to watch it (link); it lasts from 18:09 to about 22:40 on YouTube. I have also transcribed the dialogue (including the dialogue from the 'am I the evil?' exchange), both English and Chinese, in a post here; the post also includes my attempt at summarizing the whole conversation. However, as the conversation does encompass more than just the plan about what to do with the remaining Wen, I am now going to summarize the discussion of that particular issue below.

JGS is initially pro- the capturing, and implicitly the extermination, of all the remaining Wen. LXC argues for letting the defenseless remnants—note, not the ones who can defend themselves—go. NMJ is initially on JGS' side, but relents in the face of LXC's disappointment and also argues they should let them go. JGS counters by reminding them of the threat the remaining Wen would pose should they get hold of the Yin Iron. NMJ bows and says that "Clan Leader Jin has thought about it very thoroughly" (金宗主所虑甚详); to my eyes he appears to be prepared to concede on the matter, but I freely admit that we don't actually know, as the conversation takes a slight detour and this is not resolved. We return to the issue of the Wen when JGY enters with his captured group of Wen and LXC asks him for his opinion. JGY suggests that they confine and monitor "the old, weak, and young"* as long as they stop making trouble, while those who killed a Sunshot cultivator will be executed; at LXC's prompt he provides a possible location for such confinement. NMJ observes brusquely that JGY is "really familiar with it" (你倒熟悉) (in context I think this is about JGY's knowledge of Wen places). LXC announces that they should do as A-Yao suggests; it is somewhat ambiguous in the scene whether he gets agreement, as NMJ leaves angrily rather than reply when JGS and LXC look at him, but as subsequent events seem to follow along JGY's suggestion, we can surmise that agreement was in fact reached.

*老弱妇孺. As ever, I don't speak Chinese; however Pleco gives 'the old and weak' for 老弱 and 'women and children' for 妇孺. In context, I think it is fairly clear that 'women' would not include, say, the Wen equivalent of Madam Yu, fighting cultivators with good cultivation power, who besides would probably have killed a Sunshot cultivator and thus would be sentenced to death.

I wish to point out a few things about this exchange. First, the default plan without LXC's interference is apparently to simply kill them all. Second, at no point does anyone including LXC argue in favour of sparing the Wen who aren't defenseless; if LXC were a Wen, it seems likely that he would be on the chopping block due to his cultivation power and martial prowess. Third, the plan LXC agrees to here /very explicitly/ includes killing some of the captured Wen. There is no way I can think of to interpret the conversation in any other way. At no point does LXC agree to a plan which involves sparing all of them.

I'm hammering this point home because I think it is often overlooked. If the agreement is that all the remaining Wen are going to be spared, then obviously if any Wen are still killed this is a betrayal of that agreement. But that's clearly not the agreement that's reached! The fact that some Wen are killed is therefore not sufficient to constitute a betrayal of that agreement; the question becomes whether the Wen we see JGY kill are in a group protected by that agreement.

Before we look at these Wen, however, I want to look at the scene after JGY kills the Wen. Once again, we see LWJ and WWX discussing things. They are interrupted by cries and pleas from a group of the remaining Wen (at 26:56), who are being chased down and killed by Jin Zixun. It's hard to get a decent picture, but to my eyes they do indeed look like the old, the weak, and the young:

Moreover, WWX explicitly identifies them as such. "These are women, children, and old men. Are they also evil?" he asks, and the phrase is 老弱妇孺—the same phrase JGY used to identify those to be confined and monitored in the previous scene.

Is Jin Zixun's killing a betrayal of the agreement, then? But consider his reply:

It's Clan Leader's order that anyone who has concern with Yin Iron should not be alive. Nie-zongzhu and Lan-zongzhu also agreed. Does Jiang clan have any questions? 宗主有令 凡是跟阴铁有关的人 一个都不能留 聂宗主和蓝宗主也同意了 难道你们江氏还有什么疑问吗

Jin Zixun explicitly says that NMJ and LXC agreed to the killing of anyone who "has concern with Yin Iron," regardless, it seems, of whether they have power in themselves or no. It's not impossible Jin Zixun is lying; however, while he is certainly intent on provoking WWX, he does not seem to be worried about being caught in deceit, and indeed LWJ who is right there does not contradict him or seem to doubt him. Moreover, to the best that I can recall this does not come up again, as we might expect it to if Jin Zixun is in fact deceiving them; and while these Wen who know something about Yin Iron may be 老弱妇孺, they are nevertheless reasonably viewed as a threat, and it seems a fairly natural extension of the agreement we see the clan leaders reach. I'm not saying Jin Zixun would never lie, or anything, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that he's lying about LXC's agreement, while there is evidence that he's not.

Therefore, from the evidence available, it is entirely unambiguous that LXC has agreed to a plan that involves killing any Wen who have killed a Sunshot cultivator; I don't think there's any plausible interpretation other than 'execution' of what would happen to the old, weak, and young if they didn't stop making trouble, and again that's part of the plan we explicitly see him agree to; and it seems likely that he agreed to the killing of old, weak, and young Wen who "have concern with Yin Iron."

At this point I wish to pause to make a note. It seems likely that people will feel uncomfortable with LXC doing this and indeed perhaps with LXC in general because he did this; this is entirely understandable, and I'm not at all saying otherwise. However, I think it's important to note that LXC's intervention /is an improvement over the status quo/. If he had not intervened, the Wen would simply all have been killed. Yes, it's an awful and unjust agreement, and you could argue he should never have taken part in the discussion; but if he hadn't, the Wen would all have been killed. It is his willingness to "play the game" that saves lives.

(You could of course argue that he should have devoted himself to saving them entirely, by force if necessary. This has been discussed in other places and by many different people; for here I will simply say I do not think it was a viable option.)

Part Two: Which Wen?

It is clear, then, that LXC has agreed to the killing of at least some Wen. If we accept Jin Zixun's account, then even if the Wen JGY has executed are "the old, weak, and young," then that is not sufficient evidence to say that they were in the group that should have been spared! However, I think we can do better than that. To my eyes, they do not look like "the old, weak, and young":

While it is true that they are not all e.g. wearing Wen cultivator uniforms, from what I can see they all look like strong young men and women. Contrast Jin Zixun's group, which generally looks more elderly and contains a child! Moreover, while Jin Zixun runs his victims down with bow and arrow on the open road, the people JGY kills are heavily guarded, surrounded by men holding swords on them the whole time. I realize this is to some extent a matter of personal judgement, but honestly, especially combined with the contrast with Jin Zixun's group, they do not at all look to me like they are in the group that was agreed would be spared. If you disagree with this, I hope you will at least agree that they are not /unambiguously/ part of the group that was agreed would be spared; that is, it is open to debate.

Part Three: Motive

If the visual evidence is insufficient, let us turn to another question: why would JGY kill these people if he'd just proposed to LXC to spare them? The answer to that is in some sense obvious—he'd be doing it because his father wanted it—but that simply moves the question back another level. Why would JGS want JGY to kill these people, and in such an obvious manner, if he'd just agreed with LXC he would spare them?

I legitimately cannot think of a good explanation. His central goal is to progress on obtaining the Yin Iron, and to make sure no one else gets their hand on it—but the arrangement they agree to serves him just fine for that. We know he does in fact spare some of the Wen, so it's not the case that he is simply pretending to spare any of them while having them all killed. If he wants to reduce the number of people he's sparing for whatever reason, I suppose he might have JGY kill some of them—but we don't have any evidence he does want that, and why would he have JGY do it in such a public manner? They still haven't left Nightless City—they haven't even had the Banquet yet—and it's the middle of the day and there is blood on the steps:

So, what, he wants to come to an agreement with LXC and then betray it immediately for some random reason, and also do it in a way LXC is likely though not guaranteed to find out about??

In the interests of considering all the options, and the recognition that CQL does not always care about logistics when it's hitting emotional beats, perhaps we can say that the easily-discoverable nature of this is not meant to be taken literally. But there's still the problem of what motive JGS has to do this—and more than that, the question of the significant motive he has not to.

Consider the situation at the beginning of the discussion: NMJ is in agreement with LXC, united against JGS. By the end of it, LXC is readily agreeing with JGY, and NMJ is in some disgruntlement - and not even in a way that seems particularly directed at JGS! From JGS' perspective, it's very much a desirable outcome, and indeed we can see he appears quite pleased with it.

Endangering this gain would therefore have to bring some significant gain in return. And… what is there? NMJ might approve of killing the Wen but he wouldn't approve of telling LXC you're going to spare someone and then immediately killing them. If this were found out, it would entirely reverse the effect of the agreement, and you would have Lan and Nie together against the Jin—exactly what JGS doesn't want! And it's worth remembering that at this point they haven't even sworn the brotherhood oath yet, that's a few scenes on, so it would be an extremely stupid time to endanger LXC and JGY's rapport. JGS is absolutely an asshole, but he's specifically a power-hungry asshole, and especially in CQL a clever and focused power-hungry asshole; he's not going to randomly endanger political gain just because he wants to be Evil.

Part Four: Am I the evil?

I think that part of the reason for the belief that JGY killed the Wen is this exchange, or more specifically a common misinterpretation of this exchange. You can watch it here, from 22:39 to 23:45 (to 24:08 If you want to watch the blood on the steps); I have also transcribed the dialogue, both the Chinese and the YT English subtitles, into another post here.

In this exchange, LXC tells JGY not to take NMJ's behaviour to heart; it's simply that he "resents the evil and favours the good,"* and that he's simply worried that JGY has "made the wrong choice." It's honestly not clear to me if this is supposed to hit in English quite the way it does—is LXC talking about a specific, individual wrong choice JGY has made? However it does seem to be usually interpreted as this, and moreover, specifically as NMJ thinking JGY has made the wrong choice /in becoming JGY/, in becoming Jin Guangshan's recognized son and aligning himself with the Jin. In this understanding of events this criticism of JGY is then validated by his killing the Wen—look, he's being evil, just as NMJ said!

There is a problem with this version of events, however. NMJ dislikes JGS, to be sure, and disapproves of him and so forth, but I don't think he thinks he's evil or particularly disapproves of JGY working for his dad JGS qua JGY working for his dad JGS. It's worth noting that in MDZS, at least, NMJ releases MY from his obligation to him and sends MY to JGS with his letter of recommendation! But there is someone NMJ hates, or rather someones: the Wen. His antipathy towards JGY at present isn't based on JGY working for JGS; it's based on JGY having recently worked for WRH. Even in CQL, remember, in episode 27 NMJ speaks up against LXC and JC's defense of WQ and WN, notably aligning himself with JGS on the matter (link). Thus his displeasure that JGY is "really familiar" with Wen places. NMJ would not be impressed with JGY executing Wen he had agreed with NMJ and LXC not to execute, but killing captured prisoners, even non-combatants, is not something NMJ considers inherently evil. To be clear, I am not trying to make NMJ out as uniquely bad for this! This is true of most people in his society, and while NMJ is absolutely unusually principled, that doesn't mean his principles are the exact modern-day principles we might like him to have.

When LXC talks about "the evil," he is not talking about JGS; rather he is talking about the defeated Wen. His stutter in response to Am I the evil? makes much more sense in this light. It would be a much more obvious return from JGY, and indeed fairly close to an insult from LXC, if LXC meant that JGS—whom JGY had just aligned himself with, and who also is /JGY's dad who just recognized him/—were evil; on the other hand, if LXC is simply referring to NMJ's well-known hatred of the Wen, then JGY taking it seriously—as either a serious question about his own evil, or a question about whether NMJ now feels the same hatred towards /him/—is more understandably an unexpected conversational move.

Considering the exchange in this light, I think we should not see it as suggesting that JGY's next action is betraying LXC. If NMJ's hatred is based primarily on JGY's previous association with the Wen,† if anything to me the effect is to parallel JGY doing awful things under WRH with JGY doing awful things under JGS; in either situation, he is much constrained. I don't insist on that interpretation, of course, but I do think the "evil" here is very much the Wen and not JGS, and that this complicates the idea that this is the show telling us that JGY is Evil Now.

†There is the captain killing too, but he clearly does not wholeheartedly condemn JGY for it previous to meeting him in Sun Palace, and even expresses some concern for him in the interim; JGY's work with the Wen is much more significant here.

Conclusion

To sum up, then: LXC very explicitly agrees to a plan that involves killing some of the captured Wen; there is also evidence that he may have agreed to killing some of the non-combatants among the captured Wen, and I think it likely. Regardless of this last, I think the visual evidence (especially in contrast with the Wen Jin Zixun kills) suggests that the Wen JGY has executed are in the group LXC explicitly agreed to have killed. Moreover, I think that the common interpretation of the Am I the evil exchange as telling us that JGY is Evil now is flawed, and that it therefore doesn't suggest that JGY's next actions are evil beyond, like, the evil of executing captured prisoners even as part of an approach that saves some of them.

There is the matter of the framing of the execution; it does certainly suggest that JGY is doing something awful. My answer to this is twofold. First, that JGY is indeed doing something awful. Executing captured prisoners is bad! Like, I am not blaming him for not reforming society from the ground up, here, and I do tend to think it's the only option that he had, but that doesn't mean it's not a shitty option.

Second, that the show sometimes frames JGY's actions as Evil in a way that's not really justified by what's presented. If you consider the Burial Mounds flashback in episode 43 for example (link), then we see JGY being presented as evil when he is, objectively, being helpful and helping protect LWJ's reputation. His telling LWJ that LQR is there to pick him up is framed as worse than LQR having LWJ beaten is. I am not, to be clear, saying that framing can't be legitimate evidence; of course it can. Nevertheless, I think it's worth considering the issues around JGY's presentation in CQL more generally, and especially to consider whether the framing alone is sufficient to conclude that he is betraying an agreement with LXC, rather than simply executing captives, especially in the light of the evidence against this.

As a final note, I want to note that I suspect part of the reason for this take is the general reluctance to believe that the characters we like could be doing something bad/something we disagree with. With LXC, this very often tends to result in the belief that he didn't know JGY was doing bad things, despite the mass of evidence against this position; with NMJ in particular, I cannot count the number of times I have seen people simply assume that he is obviously against the destruction of the Wen. This falls into the intersection of both, reassigning the target of NMJ's hatred from the Wen, who have our sympathy, to JGS, who decidedly does not; and making it such that LXC is ignorant that JGY is going to have those Wen executed, because how could he speak with JGY so warmly beforehand otherwise? But NMJ hates the Wen, and will go on to position himself with JGS, against LXC!, against them; and LXC is indeed willing to treat JGY with warmth despite his doing awful things, as in CQL we will see him be warm with JGY at the Phoenix Mountain Hunt despite JGY having (due to the wishes of his father) ordered captured Wen out in front of the targets. Neither of them have, for example, CQL LWJ's exact set of beliefs.

*恩怨分明嫉恶如仇. Generally I hate to post about my thoughts on the translation, but I do think it's worth noting here that from what I can tell this seems to be two phrases, 恩怨分明 and 嫉恶如仇. For 恩怨分明, Pleco gives "know clearly to whom to show gratitude and against whom to feel resentment"; for 嫉恶如仇, however, it gives "hate evil like an enemy; abhor evil as one's deadly foes". This is the phrase that gets translated as "absolutely couldn't stand wrongdoings" in ch 30 (link), when WWX is wondering why LWJ didn't just go kill XY (ER translation):

Wei WuXian found this a bit strange. Although Lan WangJi looked as if he didn’t care about anything, from Wei WuXian’s past experiences with him, he absolutely couldn’t stand wrongdoings, possibly even more than Nie HuaiSang’s brother. Back then, the LanlingJin Sect had some dishonest ways of doing things, and Lan WangJi never bothered to be subtle about them. Even until now, he always refused to go to their sect’s Discussion Conferences. If two cruel massacres happened, the news would’ve probably spread over the entire cultivational world and Lan WangJi definitely wouldn’t have turned a blind eye to them. Why did he not go and give Xue Yang what he deserved?

Taming Wangxian gives it as "he hated evildoers to the core" (link), and MDZS Translation gives it "someone who hated evil with a vengeance" (link).

It's also 嫉恶如仇 that JGY repeats, rather than 恩怨分明. The Viki subtitles, for what it's worth translates this portion of the exchange as follows:

LXC: Brother Mingjue is precisely someone who is clear about kindness and grudges, and abhors evil as one's deadly foe. He's just worried you've gone down the wrong path.

JGY: "Abhor evil as one's deadly foe…" Am I exactly that evil then?

As ever, I am open to correction on this matter.

ETA: on the matter of Zixun, I think madtom's point is right; I replied here.

[fondofeveryprickle]

Juu, do you think that Wangxian would have happened in the event that WWX didn't die? I like to think they would but it would take a bit longer in terms of ssc/families/own respective situation etc

YES!

Wangxian were meant to be. They already liked/loved/crushed on each other before WWX died, but they had a lot of problems in their way to be together then.

WWX dying made LWJ realize a lot of things, so when WWX came back to life, he was absolutely ready to stand by him in all ways.

Now, talking about 'what-if's. If WWX hadn't died when he did, but the rest of the novel was still the same? It would take much longer for them to be together, just them both being alive wouldn't mean they would have been together those 13 years.

I think for WWX to have survived then, WQ and WN couldn't have surrendered and gone to the Jins. Having both WQ and WN by his side, he would probably close all entrance to BM to protect the Wens. Now it all would depend on how the rest of the cultivation world would deal with this. I like the idea of LWJ slowly realizing how people kept blaming WWX for everything, when he hadn't been seen in over a decade. LWJ wouldn't chance much from what we've seen, he'd still go out, helping those who need help, but maybe he would realize that he was never called, or never heard news about Yiling needing help. Everywhere else there was a job for him and rogue cultivators, but Yiling for around a decade never sent the sects messages asking for help, there were no stories about Yiling. So maybe LWJ would decide to investigate, and the town was all very secretive on why they didn't feel the effects of having the BM on their doorstep anymore. But LWJ would know it was WWX's doing.

And then for some reason they would meet again, and LWJ would see how wrong he was about Guidao as well, as WWX looked good and happy, with a discile following him around.

[crossdressingdeath]

One of my biggest CQL pet peeves is how they made WWX and JYL pine for each other at every turn but didn't DO anything with it. Her one moment of prioritizing WWX is a novel scene, she's still uninterested in his campaign to keep 50 refugees from being executed, she still shows up at the pledge conference to get WWX to surrender to the people who want him dead. She's clearly worried she'll lose him but they don't let her do anything about it but have bad dreams 1/2

2/2 CQL just REALLY wants you to be sad that WWX lost this specific person and meanwhile WQ and the Wens in general are practically forgotten by him. Rewriting the 1st siege means no dead Wens in the burial mounds, which means no blood pool scene, which means during the 2nd siege WWX doesn't even bother to mention the Wens iirc.  But whatever here's another scene of WWX hallucinating JYL being the Best Sister Ever so you can be sad about him losing his Real Family™ 

Yes! I hadn’t even really thought about that, but they really hammered in the whole “Oh poor WWX lost his sister- What no, not the one who treated him with love and gave him genuine support and willingly spent days walking to her death specifically for his sake, the other one, silly!” thing. It pushes so hard for us to forget that WWX genuinely did love the Wens and I think saw them more as family than he did the Jiangs? Like... WWX did love JYL, but CQL just keeps showing him thinking about her and just her even in scenes where he was originally thinking of someone else. Like, the scene where JC sets Fairy on him is a good example; he calls for JYL in CQL, but why? JYL never protected him from JC! Dogs yes, but not JC! In the novel he’s calling for LWJ, who a) is the love interest so from a story perspective it just makes sense and b) has already proven that he will physically put himself between WWX and JC if need be. CQL’s scene is even sadder, because he’s calling for someone who’s... well, dead, but also spent years proving that she wouldn’t take his side over JC’s even when a complete moron would be able to see that JC was at fault. Even his cry for help is entirely futile, because (unlike LWJ in the novel) even if JYL could hear him she wouldn’t help. Hell, the last time we see JC threaten WWX with dogs JYL finds it fucking hilarious. Meanwhile in the novel it’s sad because LWJ can’t hear him; if he could he’d have JC on the floor in a second, but he’s not there at that point in time.

Also yes re WWX not even mentioning the Wens during the second siege. Look, I get that it’s harder for film and TV to get across how a character is feeling, but if you’re going to add hallucinations to every other scene anyway some of those hallucinations may as well involve... y’know, the characters that logically the person having hallucinations would be thinking about in a given scene?

[drwcn]

Asking on anon because I feel like maybe this is a stupid question - I'm sorry to ask! In CQL why does everyone turn against NHS? I assumed originally it is LWJ and WWX being protective of LXC because he's clearly all kinds of f-ed up by NHS tricking him into murdering his sworn brother JGY. But they imply NHS is the devil which seems harsh? JGY did all those things, NHS didn't make him and if I understand timeline wasn't even plotting at the time of most of them. Is NHS a villain? I'm confused!

Hi Anon! 

To answer that question I think it fundamentally boils down to 阴谋诡计 vs 正大光明. 

I don’t think everyone is turning “against” NHS - that would be misreading their last interaction. Their last interaction in front of the wall of discipline is a “masks off” moment, where all characters are more or less showing their hand and being on the same page with each other. NHS is no longer pretending to be the “i don’t know” sniffling, weak idiot, and Wei Wuxian makes it known that he knows NHS was the one behind the string of events starting from Wei Wuxian’s own resurrection. 

Even though NHS had good motivations for doing what he did, and even though he never tried to actively hurt anyone, he achieved his goal (avenging his brother) through  阴谋诡计.  What this means is that his methods were all shadowy, underhanded, based on subterfuge and misdirection. It is not as canon would call it the “bright, sunny path” or  正大光明. 

To avenge his brother he had lied to the people who would be his friends, Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, even Lan Xichen. He used the people around him like chess pieces, leading them down the route he laid for them until Jin Guangyao’s evil has been revealed. I think it is strongly implied that Mo Xuanyu’s self-sacrifice was in part because of Nie Huaisang’s influence/persuasion. He released Nie Mingjue’s saber spirit, causing the death of the Mo family. Yes the Mo family were a group of hateful characters, and none of us are all that sorry for them, but death is still death, murder is still murder. 

Yet while he wasplotting, he outwardly portrayed himself as this innocent, I know nothing, I’m harmless individual. 

In a way, Nie Huaisang walked his own single plank road. The difference between Wei Wuxian and Nie Huaisang is that while circumstances both forced them to do things they other wouldn’t do, Wei Wuxian never hid his true self from anyone. Never tried to be “kinder” than he really was. Nie Huaisang however wore a mask until the end. 

It is a cultural trope I think for drama characters to be wary of - if not actively dislike - the scheming individuals, even if their scheming is well intended. Because a scheme always has collaterals and the person who schemes often never has to bear consequences of their actions. Culturally, it is seen as not the righteous path. 

But as CQL demonstrated, those who take the righteous path are often idiots who end up dead so... I personally see nothing wrong with scheming to avenge one’s murdered brother. 

If NHS didn’t play the careful game that he did, he was never going to beat Jin Guangyao. Jin Guangyao is too smart and careful. If you wanna beat him, you’re gonna have to get on his level, and that’s what Nie Huaisang did. 

But do I understand why Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji are wary of NIe Huaisang? Uhm yeah, because here is a man with great intellect and depth and fortitude that he was able to fool the greatest villains and heroes of their generation. There is a certain cold ruthlessness to Nie Huasiang as well; he did not hesitate to use Lan Xichen to kill Jin Guangyao (his sworn brother and lover, I think they’re lovers, sue me). 

But LWJ and WWX understood why NHS did what he did, that’s why they didn’t confront him outright. There’s an unspoken understanding between them that they know each other’s true nature now, and for all the lies that led them to this point, it’s no wonder they can’t go back to the youths that they once were.  

[kimmyyang]

My views on ‘The Untamed 陈情令’

I never thought I would write a review on a drama although I have watched a lot of dramas of different genres for about 15/16 years. There is something about ‘The Untamed’ that made me want to write a review or at least write out my feelings. I’m not going to write too deep and get into all the details. But I guess this could be a way for me to get out of this trap or try to get it off my chest. 

I’m not a fan of the original novel (well, not yet) as I don’t like reading so I haven’t read it yet. However, I have decided to read it as I have finished the drama and couldn’t get over it no matter how much I want to escape from it. 

Trust me, I don’t usually get THIS attached to a drama or any characters, I mean yeah, the casts are handsome and all, but I stayed for the plot and the characters, not just the good looks of those actors. Especially if it’s 50 episodes long, I wouldn’t stay for someone’s visuals like I ain’t got time for that – I can just watch the cuts of that actor lol. I’m quite picky because I have seen A LOT of dramas, if I watch 2 episodes and it bores me then bye and I don't like long dramas. But after the 50 episodes, I felt so empty like I wanted more??? I know that's normal since I have experienced that before but this time was slightly different.

I personally think everyone portrayed their characters very well, despite most of them are young actors/ actresses. I usually skip or play supporting characters’ parts in 1.5 speed if they’re not as interesting as the main characters. But they kept me riveted throughout the entire drama, I didn’t skip one bit. Most characters hit me at some point during the drama, and I loved it (while shedding buckets of tears haha). 

Apart from WWX and LWJ, my FAVORITE character is Jiang Yan Li - notice how I capitalized the word and it's in bold, that’s how much I loved her. She’s the best shijie/ sister that anyone could ask for. I feel like she’s WWX’s half mother, she takes care of him. She is a gentle and polite woman. She isn’t powerful in the Cultivation World (she mainly just focused on cooking tbh lol it's cute tho) but she doesn’t hesitate to protect WWX. She stood up for him even in front of her future mother-in-law, she trusted him until the end even when everyone went against him, and when her parents got killed, she didn’t blame him (it wasn’t his fault anyway) and eventually sacrificed her life for him. Her death was just so tragic like I was bawling my eyes out, she didn’t deserve it, she really didn’t. She was just a simple girl that wanted the best for her family. But she is the last straw that broke the camel’s back aka WWX, if she didn’t die for him, he probably wouldn’t get out of control. It was so cruel to WWX but I kind of understand why the author did it. 

I also enjoyed the cinematography, scenery and OST, all of it was so astounding. Even the name of the locations were beautiful like 云深不知处 – it sounds so poetic. I loved how each sect had their own colors which reflected their characteristics in the Cultivation World. The characters also had their own OST, my favorite ones are Wen Ning’s & Jiang Yan Li’s songs – it still hurts when I listen to them, and I nearly cried few times (yes, I have a soft spot for Wen Ning, too.) I want to add that Jiang Yan Li & Jin Zi Xuan's song hurts a lot as well, the lyrics are like a fucking knife stabbing me in the chest. I thought I was strong enough to watch the MV, but I couldn't control my tears gdi. You know when you're cutting onions and tears just streaming down your face, that's what happened to me - except there were no onions.  *I was a fan of the singer when I was younger so watching him singing the song on the stage also took me back to the old days ah~ This song gave me double feels lol ;~; 

A part of me regrets that I didn’t watch it last year but a part of me is thankful that I finally got to watch it this year. It was already a hot topic before it even aired in China, so of course I have heard about it and I know briefly what it is based on. But I didn’t want to jump on the bandwagon and be like I’m a huge fan of the drama just because it’s popular (it’s hard to explain but I’m quite stubborn sometimes lol). Many said that you wouldn’t understand the story or the little details in the drama if you haven’t read the novel (I watched the animation before the drama, so I know a bit of the story). I don’t like reading anyway so I didn’t bother with it. Also, the genre of the novel isn’t something that I would read so that’s another reason why I left it. I’m not against any type of love, I just feel a bit iffy about reading it, which is kind of stupid now that I think about it lol. Another reason is that I don’t like depressing dramas, I used to watch a lot of those in my younger days, most of the plots are quite cliche. Although 'The Untamed' is sad, there were sweet, happy moments and it has a happy ending, so I loved it.

A lot of people didn’t like the ending, but I think it was a good ending. I mean they can’t really do much as they have to pass the censorship. My interpretation of the ending is that LWJ went to sort out everything in the Cultivation World so that he could be with (or protect) WWX later. He found WWX (maybe a few years) later and called WWX’s name. In that scene, WWX’s black outfit is different to when they parted, so it can’t be LWJ came back to WWX right after they went separate ways – that would very irresponsible to do since he is the Chief Cultivator. It’s an open-ended ending, so it’s up to the audience’s imagination, you can interpret it however you like. The camera didn’t show LWJ at the end so it could also be WWX imagined that LWJ called his name. But I believe that they got together, you can just tell just by looking at WWX’s facial expressions. It isn’t that difficult to figure it out, the novel has a happy ending so yeah. I also read it somewhere that when LWJ went to meet up with WWX, he also changed his outfit but apparently that part didn't pass the censorship (wtf?) so maybe that's why they didn't show LWJ at the end. 

I guess the good thing is that I can’t get all the related merch, if I watched it last year, I would definitely ask one of my relatives to buy and send everything over for me lmao goodbye my money. But I would buy the physical novel when I get the chance. If a drama left a big impact on me, I would buy the novel (if it has one of course).

I think I need a long cool-off period after this drama, I don’t want to watch anything else except their bts, interviews (even supporting actors’ interviews, I usually don’t watch those), crack videos lol, variety shows, fan meeting – basically everything that I can find, I don't think I have watched everything though. When I watched a cut of the cast saying goodbye to their characters on the fan meeting, I cried again (ffs just get over it). It’s definitely one of the best dramas I’ve ever watched and would definitely recommend to those who likes Chinese dramas. Not that anyone cares, but I would rate it 9/10 (if shijie was alive, I would give another 0.5 lol). I don’t know how good the subtitles are, but I did see some odd bits here and there (I watched it without the English subtitles). Sometimes it’s really hard to translate Chinese especially when it’s a xianxia drama – making it even more difficult. Anyway, if I get to finish reading the novel, I might write my views on the novel if I can be bothered lol – I’m a very lazy person XD

I kind of want to write another post just about WWX and LWJ, and how good Xiao Zhan & Yibo’s acting skills were. Basically, complimenting them for 2 pages haha. Ngl, I did fell for Xiao Zhan. I might watch it again just to focus on them a bit more. From the interviews I have seen, Xiao Zhan seems like a very humble, kind, genuine person – you can just tell from his eyes. He’s definitely a treasure boy (硬翻'宝藏���孩'). I don’t think I need to say much about Yibo, he’s super talented, I was already a fan of UNIQ when they were active. The character really suited Yibo and he did a great job portraying LWJ.

Anyway, it’s time for me to say goodbye to 'The Untamed', I don’t know how long I will feel attached to this drama but hopefully there’s another masterpiece that could help me to get over it.

忘羡一曲远，曲终人不散。