#zuko arc!!!!

[bonksoundeffect]

Pov you've been judged and found wanting

Anyways, just felt like drawing older Zuko and Azula

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[aangarchy]

I just saw a post from someone saying "zuko obviously never wanted to be firelord" and.... did we watch the same show?

Like at this point i've gotten used to people grossly misunderstanding the show's characters (mainly aang and katara) but i've never seen it happen so blatantly, and to ZUKO of all characters.

Zuko, the guy that asked his uncle to let him into the war meeting when he was only 13 because "he'll be firelord one day" and he wants to learn as quick as possible. Zuko, the guy that interrupted said war meeting also at age 13 because even that young he already felt a massive responsibility for his nation and the people in it, and he couldn't just stand by as these generals were planning on killing them. Zuko, who at age 13 BEGGED his father not to punish him, because he only had the Fire Nation's best interest at heart.

Zuko, who despite what his father did to him, still traveled to the world's most desolate places for a chance of getting his honor, his family and his throne back. Zuko, who at age 16, looked his father in the eye and told him he was going to free his people, and the whole world of his tyranny. Zuko, who at age 16, said he wasn't betraying his nation by joining the Avatar, he's saving it. Zuko, the teenager with so much love for his nation that he questioned his own uncle when he suggested Zuko should be firelord, because he didn't feel like he deserved it, because his people deserve a leader that hasn't made as many mistakes as Zuko.

And you're telling me you think this kid never wanted to be firelord? What version of atla have you watched, genuinely?

[anney-baker]

Completely random but

While I was reading about the ATLA LA creators butchering Sokka's character arc and the Kyoshi Warriors' plot it suddenly hit me

In 2x05 "Avatar's Day" Aang wears full Avatar Kyoshi gear at his trial that Sokka and Katara brought from the Kyoshi island including accurately done makeup

They didn't bring the sensei and Aang couldn't go with them as he was imprisoned, obviously

There's exactly one person in the team who spend the most time with the Kyoshi Warriors

Sokka wore AND learned how to do the Kyoshi makeup, and used his new skill to help Aang months later

And by omitting this "unnecessary" tidbit of him being introduced to the Kyoshi outfit in S1 the LA creators caused a plothole way farther down the line

(unless they're planning on removing the Avatar's Day plot altogether, which is quite big on worldbuilding, should I say)

Like, the og show plot is very condensed while not appearing to be as such, that is until one tries to get rid of the "extra" "not-needed" scenes and nothing makes sense anymore.

[lovegrowsart]

personally i think katara is completely within in her right to be angry at and never forgive the man that killed her mother and in turn zuko is also within his right to be angry at and never forgive his abusers who gaslit manipulated scapegoated maimed banished and tried to kill him multiple times and neither of those things would make katara and/or zuko lesser than or bad people

[sad-endings-suck]

I have seen exactly 1 episode of Blue Eye Samurai and I am gobsmacked by how amazing it is. Mizu is already my everything. I am almost never so deeply invested so quickly in any media. I am obsessed. If the rest of the show is consistent in quality with the first episode then this show is Arcane level incredible, and I do not say that lightly.

[yourhighness6]

I feel like people who dislike Zuko miss how important his character is, especially to IRL abuse victims. The journey from scared, angry, isolated and abused to confident, calm, loved and accepted while being handled almost perfectly in the context of his abuse is so underrated even while being hailed as one of the best redemption arcs of all time.

[erros429]

something that irks me so bad are those people who argue that the red dragon fight is when the REAL dungeon meshi starts. like all that character establishment and worldbuilding and relationship development from the first 11 episodes are all skippable, and the only important thing about them is that they litter a bit of context for the viewer. but once you get to episode 12 is when you REALLY need to lock in.

and i just. vehemently disagree with that sentiment so much. the death of filler has tragically ruined the way we engage with media. because why the FUCK would i care about the red dragon fight if i didn’t already love the characters and appreciate their motivation for the fight in the first place? like yea, laios wanting to save his sister and marcille wanting to save her best friend are fine motivations on paper, but i honestly wouldn’t give a shit about falin surviving if i did not watch those first 11 episodes of these characters’ painstaking determination to get her back.

the execution of it all was perfect because those expository episodes were also perfect. and we should not devalue them simply because the red dragon fight was the turning point/tone shift for the overall narrative.

[guest-1-2-3]

stumbling into the joy that are zukka canon divergence tropes. zukka in ba sing se where sokka discovers the jasmine dragon and is like zuko tea server??? sokka having a crush on the blue spirit and all the subsequent identity shenanigans. my old favorite zukka boiling rock fics where they get together while breaking out of a high security prison. not to mention zuko dies in the north pole and then is bound to sokka as a ghost (cough cough boomerangs and rainbows by mindbending favorite zukka fic ever go read it)! zuko joining the order of the white lotus early on and all the fun stuff that come with that. zukka canon divergence fics my beloved

[sheepkebby]

I have a very specific taste in men.

[theplottingapp]

Look in all seriousness you can't redeem a character without showing them being pathetic, deep loser energy. There are no cool redemption arcs. They have to be in the trenches. They have to hate themselves for the mistakes they made. They have to apologize and take whatever is given be it forgiveness or a punch to the jaw. ONLY then will the redemption arc be actually good because it will be cathartic. And then they get to see the good things, they get to be touched gently and held while they sleep.

These things can overlap, even into a circle but without the pathetic loser boy saga your redemption arc will feel hollow.

[bonksoundeffect]

Yo it's Lee with the good tea

[incomingalbatross]

Perhaps people's issue with the Vader thing is that they misunderstand nature of redemption. People today (and a lot of half-baked redemption stories today too) like to think it's actually about someone who wasn't really that bad, just misguided/manipulated/traumatized doing something wrong, then fixing it and being their true self.

But actually, redemption is at its core is about an evil person becoming a good person. Redemption does not require sympathetic motives for the evil, nor for the evil person to deserve it (an oxymoron) or even for them to be able to make up for it. The foundation for redemption stories is that the redeemed person was evil.

Agreed.

[genericpuff]

I FUCKING LOVE MISERABLE JERKASS MALE CHARACTERS WHO TURN THEIR LIVES AND SITUATIONS AROUND AND BECOME MORE THAN WHAT THEY EVER THOUGHT THEY COULD BE AND WHAT SOCIETY MADE THEM INTO THROUGH THE SOFTENING OF THEIR TOXIC MASCULINITY AND EMBRACING THE SUPPORT OF THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY AS A STRENGTH RATHER THAN A WEAKNESS

GOTTA BE ONE OF MY FAVORITE GENDERS FR FR

[late-draft]

I'd contribute a tiny bit to the pro-Zutara side when it comes to the idea of Katara in the role of a co-ruler of the Fire Nation.

I understand where the negative arguments are coming from, how it's especially "shocking" if she enters the royal family (one which led the oppressive regime which waged war for 100 years and caused so much devastation);

however, firstly it is really no longer that family. Zuko committed high treason, almost died TRICE for that and still kept steady on that course, rejected his family, the family's terrible ideas about the world and both Ozai and Azula were imprisoned. Nobody supporting the old ways is still there. I don't understand negative arguments which treat Zuko's early background, lineage, political role (which may be incredibly undefined as the entire nation is being restructured, it's fantasy) as a more important factor than him as a person. He treats others with respect after undergoing redemption, he's demonstrably empathetic, he's working on undoing as much damage the Fire Nation has caused as possible, he was ready to die for these things. Secondly, why should a job or a title in a fantasy setting be a more relevant argument than love? If love was real and strong: if there's mutual respect between two people, understanding, cooperation, splitting of tasks, mutual care, communication on how to tackle problems, this is much more important and holds more weight than whether or not a role granting political power is from this or that side.

From what I've seen, the dominant headcanon for Zutara is that it wouldn't be oppressive to her but instead allow her to affect the world. It makes sense, most people want their favourite characters to be happy - AND there's no canonical evidence to suggest that being a co-ruler of the new Fire Nation would be a terrible, oppressive, restrictive position. Sure, there can also be headcanons where duty to other parts of the world might be too heavy and they split Zuko and Katara up, but this is a Tragedy trope and it only exists when there's incredibly strong love between them underneath this. So even this argument ends up supporting zutara.

I think that any arguments that use outside reasons why their relationship would be terrible are in the end much weaker in philosophy, compared to arguments about whether or not there are strong feelings between them. This is fantasy, love is an incredibly powerful force. And audience wants to believe in the power of love.

Now, if you ask me, I'd say I believe two characters absolutely do not need to have an on-screen kiss or anything completely explicit in order to convey that yes, they have deep feelings for each other. Shipping comes down to preferences, many people certainly simply Do Not Vibe with Zuko as a personality or whatever. However, this is a separate thing from what the characters are written as doing, how they are behaving in each other's company and how they treat each other.

So I'd say, if Katara loves Zuko (and vice-versa), then that's fullstop. Anything else is just an obstacle in their way which they'd tackle together.

[lovegrowsart]

it's pretty wild to me that people don't see that aang running off to save katara in CoD is his luke in empire strikes back moment, where he runs headlong into his want and attachment and he's narratively punished for doing so and not learning his lesson - aang runs after katara despite guru pathik's warning, like luke runs after leia and han from yoda on dagobah despite yoda's warning; similarly, as a result, things go to hell in ba sing se like they do on bespin - aang enters the avatar state before he's ready and gets killed, and ba sing se falls to the fire nation, luke fights vader before he's ready, loses a hand, and symbolically commits suicide after vader tells him he's luke's father.

the difference between their character arcs is that george lucas and co. actually went thru with luke's hero's journey and understood the fundamental difference between attachment and love, whereas I don't think bryke understood this difference and then dropped this from aang's arc pretty much completely and replaced it with aang digging in his heels into his want and attachment and he gets rewarded with energy bending from a lion turtle, the avatar state from a random pointy rock, and his forever girl from the self-indulgent white men that couldn't bring themselves to give their hero a compelling character arc that meant he might not have gotten everything he wanted at the end.

[sleepyzukka]

being a zuko fan is admitting and accepting his flaws and all the terrible shit he’s done and will continue to do. redemption doesn’t just completely change someone and there will always be chances of relapsing. ignoring his journey and his arc and all of his bad shit just makes what he went through to get where he is feel fucking useless, makes it seem like he went through all of that for nothing. please stop claiming to be a fan of zuko if you cant accept who he actually is or what his character is like.