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just-null · 7 months ago

Note

Plz… do you have any yandere clone crumbs (or headcanons even)? I love this trope lmao

YOUR CULT LEADER IS SO GLAD YOU ASKED

[LONG yandere ramblings under the cut!]

THESE ARE ALL RANDOM STREAMS OF THOUGHTS. THERE'S NO ORDER. ALSO I'M NOT A WRITER SO FORGIVE ANY ERRORS!!!

General

They're all interested in the same type of person for different reasons. So if you catch the interest of one, you'll soon catch the interest of the others.

The clones are also pathological liars like the main body.

They're scrappy unfair fighters.

They'd all have a common trait of imposing themselves into your life. Whether or not you want to see them, they'll always pop up uninvited.

That and being disgustingly clingy to the point you can barely breathe without one of them there to share your air.

Their violence varies, but rest (un)assured that it is always an option for them, yes, even Hantengu.

Even if different, sometimes it really shows that they're a single unit.. sooner or later, your hands will be full with a bunch of annoying, needy, lying, terrible, and problematic assholes.

They're all more intense than the average human. To them, a human life is as insignificant as an ant. They'd kill someone for the hell of it, or if it's an order from Muzan. That view doesn't change much if you're in the picture.

Now it's just a matter of not scaring you too much, hence, Hantengu’s chronic lying problem. They want to be the ones you rely and lean on. to feel comfortable with! Don't mind the blood. It's not like you haven't seen it on them before!

Relax, they truly never want to hurt you!!

Hantengu

Starting off with our man of the hour, Hantengu. He's aligned with delusional and obsessive types of yanderes, one who's too afraid to approach you but watches you from afar nonetheless.

You'd have to make an effort to find him since he'd most likely be shrunk into his tiny form and hidden in some small crevice.

It started off as a simple fascination. You probably made contact with him in his human disguise (accidental or not.) As he cowered, you were pretty decent.

It was a surprising but welcoming change of pace from the usual villains who'd try to harm him, but he still fled from you. He was going to eat you no doubt, but he kept putting it off until he lost his appetite.

He's terrified you might do something to him, that you'll hurt him! but the attention you gave him makes him yearn for your company. He wants to watch you all the time and quite literally, will do just that.

Hantengu's there when you wake up and when you go to bed. He's living somewhere in your home. Always watching.

With the ability to shrink very small and run extremely fast, you'd think you might have rats in your home. Each time you think you hear a snap, the rat traps always end up broken to pieces.

He sends his clones in his stead to test the waters after getting far too worried once you leave his sight. If you don't hurt them, then he'll know you're not so bad! Still won't approach, but a bit more calm when he's "around." or when they invade your life.

Assuming the clones never stray too far from the main body (if they're physically able to or not, doesn't really matter) they never want to leave Hantengu unprotected, which means your home is the main base.

You can move, try running away, get help, or whatever, but it's all futile because Hantengu will hide in your items meaning the others will always end up finding you with him.

it's a rule of thumb for the Hantengus not to mention him for safety reasons and because he's already terrified as is and any unwarranted attention is probably bad... He'd be horrified to be under your gaze for long, which is why he prefers you with your eyes closed.

Hantengu is like your sleep paralysis demon. At the dead of night, he peeks out from wherever he's hiding and watches you.

With demonic speed, any flinch or shuffle from you has him hiding again, but if you awaken and keep your eyes closed, you can hear faint crying and sniffling while you slumber.

If it makes you uncomfortable or ruins your sleep, Hantengu doesn't put two and two together, it can't possibly be him. What a travesty..!

It'd be difficult to try and make contact since he's always watching from the sidelines or cowering and hiding away, but it'll get easier eventually when it's drilled into him that you won't be like the people he's met.

He genuinely believes that the world is full of evil villains that may hurt you, so if he sees someone that worries him, the clones will zero in on them.

Hantengu has a dangerously powerful influence on them.. combine that with his victim complex? terrible.

Sometimes all Hantengu needs is a single seed of doubt to be implanted in his mind before he's lying to everyone and deluding himself that you're getting manipulated.

That's when his clones step in, scouting out the place for the possible source of the problem. That or pick off random people one by one before you're back in their arms!

But it's not his fault that you're surrounded by overprotective, suffocating freaks! Trust!!

The upside is if you meet him, he's extremely docile. He doesn't do much aside from cower and weep, begging you not to hurt him. Attempts to hide are futile if you tell him to stay... like a deer caught in headlights. ironic.

One of the others are probably always in the room, if not all of them, making your interactions even more awkward.

Once Hantengu warms up to the idea of having you know about his existence, you'd mostly find him in the pockets of your clothes or in areas where your trinkets would be strewn about.

It’s highly unlikely that he’d be violent in front of you, but that doesn't mean that the others won't be, (for his and your safety they say) Hantengu just cries about things or trembles at most with every sound making him flinch, huddling behind you in some way.

Hantengu often forgets he can go to his full height, usually being the size of your foot or smaller. If he's tiny, you'll see how he's a really harmless and defenseless victim of the world!

Nevermind how you sometimes catch the scent of blood coming from your home, only to find him cowering at the scene of a crime.

Depending on your demeanor, you're either a victim like him so you MUST stick together, or you're his savior.

He feels that safety and contentment when around you, but would rather stay on the side lines than risk anything. It's as if watching you do your daily routine is his stress relief.

It's absolutely awful if you're in danger or out of his line of sight for long. No reports from one of his clones? No most recent update to your whereabouts? No one is with you to inform him!?

Full panic attacks and inconsolable babbling about how you must be dead!! The world is so cruel and awful to him!!!

These types of reactions agitate the others, making them more worried if they're also in the dark. It's possible Hantengu would use Urami to go and find you himself in these rare instances. It'd be a disaster, but at least he'd have peace of mind..

At least you don't have to worry about Hantengu being jealous though. He's pretty tame, too focused on being afraid of everything else. The others handle his jealousy for him so that he doesn't worry.

Sekido

A mixture of highly jealous and possessive type, secretly protective as well! A mean tsundere is what you usually see, if not his common form of verbal abuse if he's too worked up.

The subtle flush on his cheeks takes the edge off his words if it's directed at you even if he blames it on being red in the face with anger because of you or [x] reason.

First impressions were probably that you were extremely annoying and would suggest eating you to the others whenever a situation arose. Thankfully the others prevented that from happening.

Sekido is one out of the two who'd accidentally hurt you. He never means to, but he forgets his own strength. In the beginning, instead of trusting you to follow him, he'd grab your wrist and drag you around with him to wherever he needed to be.

You could run away when he's not looking and cause an unwanted commotion, so it's best to have you on a tight leash leading to bruising sometimes..

Out of all of them, Sekido needed the most time to warm up to you. When he'd realized he'd fallen for you, he'd already be cursing at himself for being so blind to it earlier.

It started off as moments where his irritation calmed then snowballed into a bliss he only knows if he's by your side.

You'd think he genuinely hates your guts at times. The way he gets so angry and harshly insults you can take a toll. If he senses he's cut you deep, he still won't apologize verbally.

Knowing himself, saying anything would only hurt you more, he's too rough with phrasing that it wouldn't sound genuine. How is it his fault that you're so fragile?

Sekido has too much pride, but a lot of it is in constant conflict with his love for you. It's what gets him so frustrated when thinking about it. You make him feel disgustingly mushy inside, and he wants to tear out his heart and tell it to get a grip.

He probably doesn't speak to you for a few days, instead choosing to act while you're not looking to regain favor.

Making food you'd like, inviting you to spend time indoors, buying you small gifts, and even cleaning up around your place. Wordless actions that come off as apologies for his temper that he’ll make SURE won't go unnoticed.

If you confront him, he huffs with his back towards you as if it were nothing but takes credit for it regardless.

Sure, he's the oldest, but Sekido still has his moments of immaturity like the other three. If he had it his way, he'd refuse to let anyone speak to you, almost isolating you, so his acts of service really shine through.

What if someone tries getting your favor by taking advantage of his supposed mistakes? It's extremely insulting that anyone would even dare try! Infuriating even!

The only people he'd allow you to speak with are his clones and main body. But like everything, it depends on his mood or the situation.

Is it REALLY necessary to talk to someone else when Sekido is RIGHT THERE?? No. It's not. Now shut up and eat the sweets he got you.

Sekido doesn't do PDA, but violence will always be on the table, never hesitating if someone gets near you, or looks at you too long.

He says he's the best clone to take when going out, but he’s punched too many bystanders as a warning far too many times... You're lucky if he simply verbally abuses someone until they're crying or humiliated.

You can say the handsome man with the red eyes has grown a reputation in town.

You also gain a reputation as someone who’s EXTREMELY off limits, dangerous even. While Sekido isn't as affectionate or sweet as the others, the things he lets slide when it comes to you make it obvious that you're his favorite person.

“Are you trying to die? Even insects have more survival instincts than you.” and all you did was bump into him. Sekido dusts himself off and gives you a once over, subtly making sure you're okay before he continues with whatever he was doing.

Were it anyone else, he would’ve swung his staff at them for even getting near him.

You're given special treatment because, to Sekido, you ARE special. On rare occasions, he'll even verbalize his fondness for you, even if it's worded as if he were reprimanding.

Just don't be so blind to the hints he's throwing at you and he won't have to beat your face in.. specifically your lips with his lips, very roughly, until you're both bruised and breathless.

When Sekido needs to be away from you for whatever reason, he knows you're okay. He entrusts you to the others in his absence, but his mind starts wandering to how he misses your hands on his..

It's different remembering it and seeing it, if you were there, you could touch him and he could reciprocate. It'd be even better if you were both alone—and now, someone’s interrupting his thoughts.

Frustration bubbles up and he's ready to snap at someone. What could be so damn important!?

If Sekido comes back with blood on his person, just don't ask, he's already annoyed and he's seeking solace with you.

You flip a switch in him. Your warmth, your presence, your voice, it’s like serenity to his vexed soul. He sits comfortably beside you when he has to plan for something.

It helps him think clearly but, he doesn't let go of your wrist..

His grip is unnaturally tight too, so you're stuck there unless you want to risk Sekido getting frustrated again because his personified peace wants to get up and do something, at least, that's what he says.

Even if it holds some truth, when you whittle Sekido down enough, he confesses that, in a weird way, he's constantly worried for you.

You're not as strong as them and he knows this, but it's clear as day when he's calm enough.

Not that he needs to, but Sekido takes the responsibility for not only keeping himself alive, but Hantengu and more importantly you.

If anything were to happen to you, he doesn't know what he'd do. So instead he acts as the most aggressive guard dog ever and keeps any unknown presence as far from you as possible.

Moments of peace with you don't happen often for him, so please stay a while longer? The others will barge in any minute now, so indulge him a little until then?

And don't speak a word about it to anybody or else he’ll destroy your home and everything inside it!

Karaku

Extremely self aware, obsessive type. He knows how to properly court someone, that everything they're doing crosses many lines, but this way is much more entertaining.

You were just another random face in the beginning that he just shrugs and tries to find enjoyment in by tormenting, but as he interacts more with you, he finds it more invigorating than anything else.

He starts going easier on you, opting for just teasing. Dragging you into spending time with him is surprisingly more fun than a battle lately..

Whether you like him back or not isn't even important. As long as you have SOME level of affection for him and don't forget to give him some attention, he's satisfied.

Everything is fun when it comes to you and while he'd IDEALLY like you to reciprocate his feelings and be obsessed with him, he just needs an inch for the mile he'll take!

It's not like he will actively make you hate him, but he'll definitely try coaxing you into things you might not be eager for.

I doubt there's much that can upset him in general, much less if it's you. You're so attractive and entertaining to him, all your reprimands and insults go in one ear and out the other.

He laughs and agrees to whatever you said, brushing it off, then tries nudging you into moving on and doing something that doesn't upset you! Like doing him!

O-or.. if you're not in the mood right now, that's fine. There's a bunch of other fun stuff that you two can do!

With all that, Karaku's still aware that you'd be uncomfortable with him shoving all his affection onto you, getting possessive, and even beating some people up for the hell of it.

But he also knows people can learn to get used to things they can't escape and get desensitized, so he attempts to do just that and ease you into your new life!

He's still affectionate, it's Karaku! He doesn't force you into anything too intimate. Physical touch may be his go-to, but holding you and hugging you is the most he'd do unless he gets hints that he may be allowed to do more.

Out of everyone, he's the most relaxed, which isn't saying much. If you say you're going somewhere he hears we’re going somewhere, but at least you can go near strangers without him hurting anyone.

When spending time with the others, he knows he can just butt in, or do something that'll force your attention on him. Even if people try talking to you, he's not upset, just amused.

Very confident Karaku is.. any attempt someone tries with you is hilarious to him since he knows you're likely to reject them. He only gets slightly miffed if YOU'RE the one coming onto others.

“Oi~ You're really greedy, you have all of me and yet you still want other's attention? ..How about you try convincing me a little and I won't make that much of a fuss, yeah?” as if he's not always trying to hold you in the most PDA way possible…

Karaku loves to show off how he's taken even if it makes you embarrassed. You're cute when flustered anyway so that's just another plus!

When you're gone he's sooo~ bored. It reminds him of that itch he had before he met you where life was too dull and he needed that stimulation only chaos could provide.

Unfortunately, chaos is like a storm, and the clouds dissipate eventually. So what does he do? Create his own storms, of course!

Karaku is a renowned pleasure seeker, sexual or not. Since he met you, the sexual part is reserved, so he's usually seeking fun in terms of mischief, adrenaline rushes, or destruction.

Starting problems on purpose by provoking others to the point of a fight is his favorite especially if he can blow down buildings.

Some dishonorable mentions that aren't fighting are planting gross items into bags, spreading rumors, giving false information, and turning people against one another.

Overall things that would make you regret letting him out of your sight.

Karaku likes to make himself more appealing to you by boasting about small things. It could be the bare minimum, but you wouldn't know if he's exaggerating any tiny details!

Hearing your tastes and interests will have him leaning into that, but he's not going to change himself completely.

He's confident he can worm his way into your heart by being himself.

You should give him praise sometime! He didn't tease Sekido and make him so upset he blew a fuse. And! He didn't toy with anyone’s life before killing them this time! He also only used his uchiwa twice. max. and no buildings collapsed completely..

See? He's not that bad of a guy! You should trust him more, you'll hurt his feelings..!

He's the one who will also flirt with you the most, leaving lingering touches and casually inviting you for some bedroom fun. You could be in the middle of dinner and he'd ask if you're up for it later as if it's a casual thing between you two.

This guy.. he really REALLY likes you touching him.. from his hair to his arms, to his chest, and down his legs, whatever you want is yours. But it also makes him more reserved in a way?

Someone tapping his shoulder gets him a little miffed. It's like someone is touching something of yours. Whatever, getting your hands all over him should fix that right up.

Karaku is an interesting case.. He portrays himself as an open book, but there's so much more than he lets on.

He makes mental notes of things you like and strictly hate, secretly helps balance everyone’s jealousy so you don't get burnt out, always there when you need him most, and is second to tend to you if Aizetsu isn't around.

Serious situations aren't his style, he’ll always try to be playful to lighten the mood, but you can see his ear twitch when he notices something’s wrong.

He's the second oldest after all, so he has the capability to be mature if he wants to.

But being a stick in the mud is Sekido’s job, so he works around it in his own pleasurable way!

There’s times even when he likes to take things slow and enjoy the moment with you around. Pleasure can be relaxation. While he loves being out and about, a nice quiet evening with you can be fun too.. even if he has to push you around a little too make it happen.

He likes how you make him feel whole, like he's not chasing after the unattainable satisfaction that's so close but so far.

Urogi

Intoxicated delusional type... Urogi believes you wouldn't do anything to hurt him on purpose and finds joy in your “shyness.” If you were to reject him or push him away, he laughs very loudly, “reassuring” you.

First impressions were pretty tense. He'd eye you like he's waiting for you to step wrong before feasting. Like those fangs suggest, he's a humanity's predator first and foremost and he wanted to keep it that way.

At least, he thought so until he played with his food too much and got attached.

You later begin to be like a drug to him. He NEEDS you. Whether it be within earshot, field of vision, or (preferably) within arm's reach. If not, he gets super fidgety, nervous, restless. Can't sit still.

Similar to Hantengu except he begins getting impulsive and violent with anything or anyone around the longer you're away.

Usually, he thinks twice about slicing anything with his talons when you're around, he's too happy with your attention and knows you're pretty squishy! But if you're gone, the blood splatters make him feel better!

He misses you! Come back!! There are scratches and tossed furniture everywhere because Urogi attempted to calm himself with things that smell like you. Everything's just a mess, but he at least greets you the second you get home.

Cuddly and excitable! He'd tackle you in a hug and swing you around, or cling to you with his full body until you both tip over. Urogi likes your scent and warmth.

It's comforting, so he's constantly near you and touching you, sometimes fighting with the others cause he wants his turn.

Similar to Sekido, you're like a switch that flips to excited when you make contact of any kind, so it's not uncommon to find him clamoring to sit on your lap or lay his head somewhere on you when he sees you.

Again, like Sekido, Urogi can get jealous to the same levels as him. However, whereas Sekido would be violent and aggressive, Urogi is whiny and clingy.

It's almost funny how he’s the one whose mood shifts the quickest. Even compared to Aizetsu, he's more likely to cry, or compared to Sekido, he'd lash out about something small.

But as his main emotion states, he'll always revert back to his gleeful self.

One second, he's complaining because you've been “ignoring” him for too long [three minutes] but cheers up if you so much as graze his skin, “Hahaha!! Okay, I forgive you!! Can we go out now? Oh! Oh! How about a kiss?!”

Joy may be better than when Urogi's upset, but it's still... pretty shameless like Karaku, except Urogi doesn't WANT to embarrass you on purpose.

He's got a loud voice and a one-track mind with you. Begging and asking isn't out of the realm of possibility for him either.

Something you can count on with these four is that they're honest in their feelings for you.

Urogi, being the one who's extremely raw in showing it, talks from the heart with no brain. What you see is what you get. Most of the time...

Urogi, like the others, has his moments of dishonesty, but it’s not his fault! He wants your love constantly so bends the truth about needing you in some type of way or that he was bullied!!!

He has a headache, take care of him! Oh, his left wing hurts, pet it for him, please? His feathers have been really bothering him lately, preen him? Yes, you did so yesterday, but they're bothering him again!! Also, Sekido was really mean for no reason again, stay with him so he doesn't get yelled at again!!

With how much he thrives under your attention, you'd wonder how he reacts with people who aren't you. Well, it's simple, if its not a fight, he leads back to you!

If someone ever talks to Urogi long enough there's a 90% chance he'll mention “someone” and ignore whatever they say.

When you're not the subject of the convo, he brings you up, interrupting the other's train of thought. Annoyingly so..

It gets particularly messy if he's conversing with the other three because then they'd forget about the original topic and get swept up with missing you instead.

Even the hobbies he has that aren't you, remind him of you.. in albeit concerning ways..

He likes to eat fleshy meat, but he gets reminded of how your skin feels under his hands. It'd be more flattering if he wasn't literally ripping the flesh off of something with his fangs, but he means well.

Sharing things he likes is a sign of love, right? That's why he brings you gifts! ..Like a cat bringing its owner dead mice except this cat is five foot nine and way more dangerous..

and the dead mice are limbs that can get you arrested............

It's terrifying to wake up to a mysterious blob of red meat, especially when Urogi says “It's the only thing that kinda resembles what it used to be!” but laughs in your face instead of explaining further.

A tongue was probably the most concerning thing that still had its original shape, but not surprising.

Urogi is unfortunately way too damn strong. He's the second one to accidentally hurt you after Sekido, his talons are extremely sharp and sometimes dig into you when he gets too excited. He tries not to, but even passing by he can nick you.

Bandages are difficult for him to grab with his talons, and he feels terrible afterward, so he licks your wounds clean if you let him. Sure, it won't do much, but at least your blood smells delicious, and it makes him happy tasting it!

Right, this isn't about him, right!

There's something almost innocent about how Urogi acts with you. Even if you hate his guts, he’d still treat you like treasure. He can't bring himself to hate you no matter what you do.

He’ll get annoyed at times when you're too “coy,” sure, but never more than that or for long.

He can be a handful, but you can tell he tries to give you a good happy relationship. One that he hopes makes you feel the same unending joy he feels even if it's a bit traumatic.

Aizetsu

Manipulative and stalking type. Aizetsu wants to get tasks over with as fast as possible. he doesn't have any motivation for it. He's tired and sad and wants to curl up into a ball and lay down.

First time meeting, Aizetsu didn't even spare you a glance. If you weren't food or a threat, then you might as well have been a poor wall or weird tree.

Giving him a taste of pampering is probably what slowly melted his cold walls.

Now that he has you, it's strange. He WANTS to get up and do things with you. The weight on his shoulders isn't as heavy when you're around. He wants to keep you near him always and if he has to be pathetic to do that, then he'll do it.

Sending cute sad glances your way, sighing after each word as if its tiring to breathe, constantly leaning or holding onto your clothes, whatever makes him look like he'd die without you is what he'll do.

Aizetsu is more than capable like the other three if not the most. it's just that he doesn't need to do it, so he doesn't want to.

He purposely makes himself out like he's the “good” one, but he's just quieter. Unlike Karaku's boasting, Aizetsu wants you to see the worst in others so it makes himself look better by comparison.

Making others or himself seem pathetic is his strong suit, sometimes making his counterparts the brunt of that pity.

That or he takes a page out of Karaku's handbook and stirs the pot so they do the job for him. Sometimes they involve Aizetsu if they find out which makes him sad...

He pouts, looking at his counterparts fighting, and tells you how it's such a pity you're stuck with a rowdy bunch like them while knowing full well that he muttered something under his breath about Karaku mocking Sekido to make Urogi laugh while passing by.

It didn't happen, but it could've... it's okay, just stay with Aizetsu on the sidelines while they tucker themselves out.

Speaking of that, Aizetsu seldom lets you go. Like the others, he loves touching you, but the others let go eventually from some form of hyperactivity.

Aizetsu.. doesn't. His hand is always firmly grasping some part of your clothes while you walk, but if you're not using your arm, he'll hold that for you too.

You can try shaking him off, but it really wouldn't do anything except make him frown and grip tighter. You could ditch your clothes, it'll stun him for a moment until he's pouting again, but he’ll let you go.

Unfortunately you probably won't get your discarded clothes back for a while even if you apologize.

That and he’ll cling on again in five minutes if he's near. It's a force of habit.

Aizetsu's the strongest physically of the four, but tries his best to seem weak around you so you can spoil and love him more.

The second you leave him to figure out his own issues, you usually hear a loud thump then crack followed by Aizetsu's soft footsteps rushing to follow behind you.

Even with his crazy strength, he's the second least likely to spill blood.

Not because he's guilty or anything, don't be silly, but because he doesn't want to put effort into cleaning himself up, so you'll embrace him again. If you didn't care, then he'd be a bit messier.

Then again, he doesn't like how the dried blood feels in his hair, and he doubts he can get away with making you wash it for him every time.

Aizetsu is constantly upset, but he's not openly emotional aside from his usual declarations of sorrow. He doesn't cry easily, being in a constant state of sadness makes everything numb at some point, so it's something he expresses privately..

or, to persuade you into feeling bad for him further.

“Pitying others is only natural, but don't forget you have someone waiting for you always. I'd wither away without you.” He says that, but the others never see him waiting for anything when you're out.. Why? Because he never leaves you.

Sometimes you think you see a blue reflection from the corner of your eyes, but you check and nothing. Feeling like you're watched has been a constant lately since meeting the clones. Hopefully, it's just nerves.

But it's not!

Behind wall corners, in the shadows, amongst crowds, in closets, Aizetsu's always there. Watching with that same sorrowful pout. As mentioned earlier, he doesn't feel demotivated when doing things for you.

He's making sure you're safe and gathering more information. He wants to be precise when around you. How are you when you think they're not around? He'll find out. He always does.

Not that you notice much... He doesn't throw tantrums when you need to part from him like the others, only simple, “Really? Where are you going..?” and that's all for protesting. He's the “good one,” remember? He won't stop you.

Aizetsu gets a little sloppy with hiding his hobby(?) when he doesn't react to the new things and stories you intended to tell him. As if listening to a story again.

He's lucky he doesn't speak much or he would've filled in the details of the story you forgot about.

The downside of following you is that Aizetsu gets approached sometimes. Annoying... He's so gloomy, that he's sometimes approached by kind bystanders to check up on him.

He doesn't speak to anyone as much anymore, only responding with nods and head shakes unless he's pitying someone. He's only “chatty” with you and his clones, more so you.

A tired look crosses his face when someone's being particularly bothersome. Say, the authorities or an insistent stranger for example.

If you were with him, he'd look at you to fix it, but since you're not, he'll handle it himself. i.e. a precise swift jab to the throat that'll get them to keel over long enough for him to scamper somewhere else.

Zohakuten

Conflicting love hating attention seeker.. He can't help but hate how your mere presence makes the others and himself worse versions of themselves, but he can see why. Having your attention is like basking in the warmth of the sun again..

He rarely shows up, only when the four are panicked and desperate, but the first time is probably extremely tense........ he'd reprimand you for screwing up the minds of his clones and scaring the main body constantly.

He doesn't separate, wanting to see what the big deal is. Having Zohakuten follow you around or dragging you places while getting insulted, you're mostly babysitting him at this point.

He may not be a child in the usual sense, but he definitely uses his appearance to benefit himself. Big eyes, grumpy frown with his chubby cheeks and that usually gets people to believe him if he's lucky.

It's whiplash inducing when Zohakuten's face and way of speaking don't match (it's easy to forget that all these freaks have the mentality of an over two hundred year old man.) He uses an older way of speaking and their inflections.

He's not free from the common ground that is wanting your attention even if he's almost always complaining that you're the source of their corruption. yet he still doesn't try getting rid of you aside from a couple insults. Though it can get annoying when he's constantly on your case.

Zohakuten is extremely defensive of the main body. Hesitating when it comes to him isn't a problem. He's like Sekido where he punches as a warning in that sense.

He's very kind with Hantengu, and surprisingly you who now falls under the category of needing protection.

Hatred is part of his nature so if you're alone with him, that hatred focuses on you, but it's mixed with affection. He only really huffs at you and occasionally tries swatting you when you get too affectionate.

He's critical of his older clone counterparts.

If there were a setting where Zohakuten coexisted with his them , he'd be very antagonistic even if it's to a lesser degree than opponents. He's going against them then complaining to you about it so you can be careful of their misdeeds!

He sees their actions as the main reason Hantengu gets bullied and falsely persecuted. they fool around too much instead of doing their job properly that it grinds Zohakuten's gears..

He'd probably call Karaku and Urogi manwhores for showing off so much skin. Sekido and Aizetsu are on thin ice but they'd still get called harlots for wearing their collars so open.

You're probably not free from his berating either but he excludes the derogatory insults.

Similar to Tanjiro in that one scene with Mitsuri, Zohakuten would grab your clothes and adjust it to be more modest. He can't have animals like those pigs looking at you!!!

That being said, Zohakuten is much more manageable compared to dealing with four smothering men.

Still.. he's less likely to listen to you and has a short fuse that can cause problems out of nothing. Plus, he's much MUCH stronger than what you'd be used to.

Luckily, there's moments when he tuckers himself out and he's quietly following you like a cat. He doesn't speak much then but glares at anything and anyone who gets too close.

He might look pettable, but don't do it or he might both claw at you and get a second wind.

It's best to stay alone with Zohakuten for as long as he's around. If someone else makes him or Hantengu upset, he'd focus his hatred into them and make up some deluded reason as to why they have to die.

They'll harm Hantengu first if they're allowed to live!! It'll be swift, but he can't promise it'll be clean.

It's pretty easy to get Zohakuten to get violent. it only really takes someone getting close to you or Hantengu until he's acting faster than you noticed he moved.

He doesn't really care if you get scared, it's all for the greater good. you're just spooked because his methods were taboo, but it's fine. Now all of you are safe..

He really likes trees and forests, so taking walks around there might be the safest bet.

Zohakuten wouldn't be as cuddly, more so because of some pride of holding himself up as the strongest pillar for Hantengu, but there are moments where he sighs and leans his head against you.

Being alone with you, Hantengu, and the peace of nature puts his mind at ease in a way it's not built for. Even his wood dragons come along, bellowing quietly and making the whole environment uncommonly calm. like he's almost a normal kid.

Serenity isn't forever of course and you must part from him eventually. It's not like he'll make it easy by any means though. His brattiness shines through here where he hides some essentials of yours that make it impossible for you to leave.

Your shoes, outdoor clothes, utilities, anything that'll make your life more difficult so you'll stay home. Yes, he knows you have a life outside, but he doesn't like it when you come home smelling different. It's concerning!

If you somehow manage to escape, you'll only see his hateful eyes from his safe spot in the darkness. Throughout the day, the occasional concern chill creeps up, and coming home reveals why.

It's a disaster. Everything is trashed and turned over in what looks to be a tornado hit. Except the tornado was just a small tyrant sulking in your bedroom. The tantrum didn't comfort him at all and all he wants is you.

When you come back, he's berating you and calling you the worst person imaginable! He grabs your arms tightly then nearly crushes your ribs in a hug.

He doesn't apologize, but helps clean up after he's done, wanting to spend time with you. It wasn't the same without you and he loathes how the difference is so tangible now.

It's unfair how he's tasked to protect you too, but now that he's met you, there's specific conditions that need to be met to be allowed to see you again. He's not here for long and people around you get to meet you whenever they'd like. it's really not fair!

Maybe after a while, Zohakuten would learn not to act first if you PROMISED to keep your interactions with others to a minimum.

Even If you don't, he'll remind you by cutting your conversation or starting an argument that'll quickly get lethal if not stopped in time.

The way this guy swears like a sailor is incredible. Very foul mouthed. He talks bad about people, even sometimes to their face. It's also painfully accurate. Zohakuten can really cut deep with his words alone.. even be problematic

so fingers crossed he doesn't slight the wrong person.

While he doesn't really need to, he tries getting you small trinkets to keep so he's with you when he's separated.

All stolen of course, or so the woman from the market says, but it's not true! he made it himself, what kind of person would spread lies like that?!

Note: Zohakuten is a platonic yandere. Like the boyfriend's bratty younger brother who likes you so he cock blocks everyone to hang out with you trope

You can try asking for help, but people have seen what they're like without you.. they're like a blender without a cap. The contents will go everywhere, and it'll be chaos. UNLESS, the blender has its cap, you.

With a heavy heart, people usually give you sympathetic glances if you ever do interact briefly and quick words of comfort if they can. at least you're well taken care of by those freaks.

i love them all theyre awful.....

Tl;Dr

Hantengu is delusional and obsessed, where he thinks you'll harm him if he gets too close, but can't stay away from you for long or else he freaks himself out Sekido is the jealous possessive mother fucker who's very rude but surprisingly gives you extremely special treatment. Karaku is the obsessed self aware one, but that's wasted because he loves causing problems on purpose and embarrassing you with love. Urogi is the Intoxicated delusional one because you gotta be delusional to be as happy as this guy.. also animalistic. Too raw about his feelings........ Aizetsu is the manipulative stalker. He acts like he's the good boy when he's just as shit as the others who also somehow knows everything about you. Zohakuten is the love-hate attention seeker. it infuriates him how you "wont leave his main body alone," but he secretly thrives on your attention and will cock block at every point and time.

#null rot #yandere hantengu #hantengu clones #hantengu #sekido #karaku #urogi #aizetsu #zohakuten #yandere kny #yandere demon slayer #kny #kimetsu no yaiba #demon slayer #i fear i was all over the place #DO YOU SEE MY VISION?? OH MY FUCK IVE BEEN WAITING TO YAP #GOD. AGAIN IM SORRY IF THIS IS EVERYWHERE. I DONT EVER JOT DOWN MY THOUGHTS #FUCK I KEPT WANTING TO HAVE SIMILAR WORD COUNTS BUT I NEVER SHUT THE FUKC UP AGHGHGHH #LISTEN MAN they're sO perfect as yanderes. they're so similar to each other but distinctly different.#Having a core emotion fuel most of their decisions and reactions is the perfect way to hook in your cult leader #the hantengu and zo were added for those few lovers of them out there. i also really like them #i left the relationship with hantengu ambiguous for those gilf hunters out there. it can be read as romantic or platonic!#AND LIKE BRO THEYRE ALL JUST SO FUCKING ANNOYINGLY CLINGY I HATE HOW THEYRE SO CARING YET NOT AT THE SAME TIME....... BRO SHUT THE FUCK UPP #ITS ABOUT THEIR POSSIBLE NUANCES BRO.... I DONT WANT TO HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THEM BUT THE **PARASITES** THEY CRAVE BRAIN ROT #GYAHHHHHH THEYRE ALL SO GOO D WHY ARE THEY ONLY SHOWN SO LITTLE.... FUCK!!!!! FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#i'm a sappy bitch. call me dom from fast in the furious. i love these stupid mother fuckers fighting and working together for you #THEYRE ALL BROTHER CODED #AS FOR THAT DRAWING I IMAGINE THEYRE HEAD TURNERS. THE MOST GORGEOUS GUYS EVER BUT THEIR PERSONALITIES ARE SO UNAPPROACHABLE... IM CRYING #yandere is just a twisted and more intense form of love...... hell yeah theres some nuiances there #i was playing with colors. i hope nothing looks strange!

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zorosdimples · 11 months ago

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when he knows you’ve been repressing your emotions for weeks, so he fucks you until you’re an inconsolable, sobbing mess. he wraps himself around you and rasps in your ear, telling you to let it all out, sweetness. take everything out on me.

#something something sex therapy #rewire my brain to seek physical and emotional release during sex #pls tell me u see the vision #pls tell me i’m not the only one that needs this #also this is so ****** coded i want to frow up

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trouble-de-la-belle-princesse · 6 months ago

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having bpd fucking sucks because I'm constantly switching between "I'm the scum of the fucking earth and should be killed on site" to "if I'm not getting constant praise and attention like i deserve then i don't deserve to be a human"

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ivoryratdoggerythethird · 1 year ago

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dazai making up a whole language with fyodor that no one else can understand is amazing but imagine him using codes that, very objectively speaking, you could crack, it's just that no normal person would ever make the insane leaps in logic that it requires. except for someone familiar with dazai's weird thinking patterns, that is.

i just love the idea of dazai's unhinged antics being dialed up to an eleven when he was in the port mafia, and oda being the only one who simply wouldn't bat an eye at it but chuuya was the only one who would actually get it.

like imagine ango at the end of the jailbreak, his boss saying he should allow himself to sigh and lean back and maybe indulge himself, pat him on the shoulder, tell him what he pulled off reading heart rates wasn't easy and he should be proud for being able to keep up with such a plan

but ango i-drank-with-teenage-dazai-and-also-had-the-records-for-every-soukoku-mission sakaguchi can only remember the time dazai was like using greek sign language through his breathing patterns to communicate from a submarine from beneath the pacific ocean or something, and chuuya could not fathom how no one else could understand him.

and that was the day mori signed off on skk being exclusive partners because every subordinate in the room was crying tears of blood by the time chuuya finished explaining which blood pressure level was warning them about a bomb, which blinking sequence was him conveying the vault password and which series of inhales was just him calling mori a bitch.

(ango also pointedly did not want to think about how smug dazai had looked after the mission when mori confirmed skk would only be each others' partners for efficiency and to maintain everyone else's sanity

or about how when he called chuuya to tell him about dazai's prison break scheme he could only get like 3 out of 276 steps into the plan before chuuya rolled his eyes, said "got it" then hung up and pulled the whole thing off without a hitch.)

#listen soukoku having telepathy that they insist isn't telepathy it's just using common sense #while everyone else sobs in the corner #is a flavour of pm era skk I adore #like yes technically chuuya can in fact explain the play-by-play #process of understanding dazai's codes #it's just that no one else is going to immediately make the same far fetched connections #UGH the latest chapter of chuuya watching dazai flop and roll around on the ground like a fish while he brainstorms #not an ounce of curprise or confusion #like he's seen this a thousand times before #and even spotting his worries and dazai actually openly musing about his ideas and expressing emotions so vividly #they KNOW each other your honor #soukoku #dazai osamu #nakahara chuuya #the sigma show #bsd #my post

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xiaq · 21 days ago

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Me, watching Musk and Trump have their little fight with unrepentant glee:

#on the one hand #Hilarious #On the other hand one of them has our nuclear codes and one of them has all our data #You think maybe men are too emotional to be in positions of power or?

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starcurtain · 9 months ago

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A Look at Ratio and Aventurine... and Ratio/Aventurine

I was morally obligated to use this picture.

Anyway, I got an ask about my understanding of Ratio and Aventurine's relationship both in canon and as a ship that I have been holding on to for a while now because... phew, there's like... a lot to talk about there... But I felt I should at least give it a try, so here is my attempt to comment on the intersection of two of Star Rail's most complicated personalities. Long post is longgggg; you have been warned.

First, Aventurine's canon relationship to Ratio:

In the interest of not hitting tumblr's image limit, let's just throw out some of the information we have in one go:

It's pretty complimentary. (Yet somehow...)

The implication of the infamous "Keeping Up with Star Rail" video is that Ratio understands Aventurine better than anyone else, and Aventurine knows this. At the very least, putting all shipping aside, Ratio is the person who can explain Aventurine's behaviors best. He's the person Aventurine chooses do so. This suggests significantly more knowledge of each other's lives than the game first led us to believe.

Other people (read as: my GOAT Owlbert) perceive respect from Aventurine to Ratio, and although I read them as a bit sarcastic, the 2.1 mission logs not only repeatedly confirm that Aventurine views Ratio as smart and reliable, but that Ratio is reliable "as always," again indicating a longer and closer history of collaboration than we get to actively see in game. The devs were working hard to tell us "Penacony isn't Ratiorine's first rodeo," which is interesting--given Topaz's voiceline recommending the Trailblazer avoid working with Aventurine whenever possible, we're led to believe through 2.0 and 2.1 that not many people will willingly work with Aventurine more than once, let alone many times.

While going through psychological scrutiny from the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come his Harmony-infused self, the "Future" Aventurine suggests that Ratio and Aventurine are quite similar, and that Aventurine puts a surprising amount of trust in Ratio, to be willing to hinge such a dangerous plan on something as untested as Ratio's ability to act. At the very least, Aventurine's own psyche is pondering on Ratio and whether or not their connection has any emotional meaning.

But despite all this evidence suggesting Ratio and Aventurine spend significantly more time with each other than we get to see in game, Aventurine's own thoughts cast strong doubt on whether he and Ratio are actually close.

Aventurine's "About Dr. Ratio" voice line suggests that Aventurine believes Ratio does not particularly like him. He seems to think that Ratio would prefer to stay away from IPC operations where possible, and it's "unfortunate" for Ratio to be stuck with Aventurine as a conversation partner. He's tolerated, rather than enjoyed. His overall impression seems to be that Ratio mostly views them as distant coworkers.

When the "Future" Aventurine suggests Ratio did not betray Aventurine willingly, actual Aventurine immediately pushes back:

(Personally I'm on the fence about whether this was real doubt or just a ploy to continue sussing out Sunday; see my other post about this scene for some more thoughts.)

But if we take this statement to be played straight, it implies that Aventurine doesn't fully believe Ratio will side with him, even (maybe especially) in dire circumstances. If this statement is real doubt, then despite considering Ratio the person who best understands him, despite building an entire life or death gamble around Ratio's loyalty... Aventurine still doesn't think Ratio even likes him.

Aventurine's not stupid or blind, so theoretically he should be able to read the situation better than that. But actually, there's plenty of evidence both in the game and outside it to suggest that Aventurine is not the most accurate judge of his own relationships to others and is a down-right terrible judge of his own worth as a person.

"Future" Aventurine suggests that one of Aventurine's deep inner flaws--the truths that he rejects about himself--is a massive inferiority complex. This is backed up well by the mission text, where Aventurine's thoughts about himself spiral into self-harm, and the scene in the maze, where "Future" Aventurine taunts our Aventurine with the unforgettable fact that his entire life was only worth pennies:

There's also pretty consistent self-deprecation, with both "Future" and real Aventurine noting several times that he's a pathetic mess of a person that other people don't trust or like.

The overall impression 2.0-2.1 left me with is that Aventurine is perfectly capable of respecting and caring for others, but virtually incapable of accepting other people genuinely respecting and caring for him.

Part of this seems to stem from the directly-stated sense that he's a failure whose only worth is in transactional exchanges, using and being used by others (there's so many layers to this--internalized racism even), but I also suspect that much of his inability to accept genuine connection from others is defensive behavior.

Aventurine's true self, Kakavasha, is deeply hidden away, like the ghost of the child that manifests from his Harmony delusion in the Dreamscape. Although Aventurine clings to that person, claiming that he has "never changed," he actively coats over his beliefs, his kindness, and his authenticity with the mask of a "cavalier gambler," with glitz and glamor and showy distractions. No one gets to see Kakavasha. No one gets to know him, because being buried deep in the dirt is the only way to remain untouchable, and fiercely keeping one's distance is the only safe bet. (For both Kakavasha and any fools who would doom themselves by daring to care for him.)

So: Canon is telling us that Ratio is one of, if not the, closest people in the world to Aventurine. But canon is also telling us that that still means absolutely nothing at all, because Aventurine won't let himself be close to anyone living.

Aventurine's senses of self-worth, trust, attachment, and safety have been warped so badly by ongoing and untreated trauma and mental health issues that, at least until the end of 2.1, I just don't think he was capable of even accepting genuine friendship from Ratio, let alone anything more.

(Interesting side note here: Ratio is actually one of the people Aventurine calls "my friend" the least. He only says it directly to Ratio a single time in all of their lines of dialogue across 2.0 and 2.1, and even then, does so only when right outside Sunday's door, while almost certainly being spied upon by the Family. Anyone who knows how often "my friend" is peppered into Aventurine's dialogue otherwise should know that the absence of the phrase is actually pretty telling. It almost feels like canon Aventurine's not even sure he can call Ratio his friend, at least to Ratio's face.)

Which makes Ratio's canon relationship to Aventurine quite sad and ironic:

From start to finish, Ratio canonically esteems Aventurine more highly than almost any other character in the game. I'm not even talking about shipping when I say that there is no character Ratio is closer to in the entire game.

At present, Ratio has only four voice lines about other characters, and of those four, Aventurine's is the only one that isn't someone from the Genius Society. The only one. Ratio's voice lines are also notably, uh, not very complimentary. Herta is "talented but not helpful to others" and "sees no one as her equal" (read as: she's self-absorbed). Screwllum is a "monarch, rather than a genius" (with the vague implications of being a tyrant), and Ruan Mei is overly ambitious and "fooling everyone."

Meanwhile, Aventurine is "our man" (who is "our" Ratio? who?) whose success "can't all be chalked up to luck," implying that part of Aventurine's success must come from skill. Ratio notes that Aventurine questions his own ability... but as far as Ratio's evaluation goes, he seems to doubt that Aventurine will ever experience a downfall. For someone who thinks 99% of the people he meets are mediocre failures scrambling around in the filth of existence, to be recognized as skilled and unlikely to fail is quite obviously glowing praise.

Then, of course, there are numerous moments that echo Aventurine's hints, implying that Ratio spends significantly more time with Aventurine than we see on-screen, that he knows Aventurine extremely well, and, although he tries (vainly) to pretend he isn't, he's clearly quite concerned with what Aventurine thinks of him.

Especially this last one. "No wonder that gambler likes you so much" is pretty intentional on the devs' part, confirming that Ratio and Aventurine are having off-screen conversations we players are not privy to, which obviously would indicate a closer relationship than the in-game cutscenes could cover.

Then, Trailblazer has the option to flat out ask Ratio to "rate" Aventurine. (Star Rail ship bait is not even subtle.)

At first, this line might read as all over the place:

"The bosses say we're partners but I wouldn't say that" -> Read as: Ratio wants people to know how their relationship is classified but doesn't want to admit to being actually invested.

"I see myself as the teacher to everyone I meet" -> Read as: Ratio at least pretends that he doesn't view anyone as his equal; everyone is either above him--geniuses--or below him--students.

"Aventurine is not that bad of a student" -> High praise; even Ratio can't pretend Aventurine's untalented.

"Actually, Aventurine's probably in metaphysical danger" -> Read as: Ratio is aware of the "void" Aventurine is experiencing and his mental struggles.

The ultimate takeaway of Ratio's "rating" actually says more about Ratio than Aventurine. When it comes down to it, Ratio's choice to answer this question for the Trailblazer instead of dismiss it tells us that Ratio has spent time quantifying and trying to define his relationship with Aventurine, is willing to at least discuss that relationship with other people (when we have no evidence he ever discusses any other personal/non-academic matters with anyone), and that Ratio pays attention to Aventurine's mental states.

Canon Ratio is not beating the allegations, I'm afraid.

But actually, I think the biggest tell about Ratio's canon relationship to Aventurine is that Ratio's behavior completely changes the moment Aventurine appears in the game.

In every single one of Ratio's other appearances, two facts are hammered home again and again:

First, Ratio hates interacting with fools and "noisy" people. He wears his plaster bust so that he doesn't even have to see them. Canonically, we're informed by both March 7th and Argenti that Ratio brought and was wearing his headpiece in Penacony. Curiously though...

The players never see it throughout 2.X--probably because 90% of Ratio's scenes are with Aventurine, and Ratio is never shown wearing his bust on screen with Aventurine--even in their very first meeting in the Final Victor lightcone. Aventurine clearly knows of the bust, but despite Ratio verbally going on and on about how Aventurine is the most "flashy" and "devoid of logic" person Ratio knows... the devs deliberately send their message: Ratio has chosen not to cut himself off from Aventurine.

Aventurine can be more "clamorous" than a screaming peacock, but Ratio will still not put up walls against him. This isn't accidental. The devs had every opportunity in the world to go the opposite route and make jokes about Ratio refusing to take the bust off in Aventurine's obnoxious presence; instead they decided that Ratio apparently has a glaring, Aventurine-shaped exception to his "I don't want to perceive you fools or be perceived by you" life rule.

This "willing to tolerate shenanigans only if Aventurine is involved" behavior continues basically throughout all of Penacony's plot. In 2.3 for example, if you turn around and talk to Ratio again on the Radiant Feldspar, he flat out says:

But there's no actual explanation for why he's there in the first place. He mentions he was assigned to watch over "the IPC's ambassadors," which theoretically should apply to Jade and Topaz, yet we never see him interacting with them in any capacity. He's never even shown in the same room as Jade or Topaz, and he's not shown doing any other form of business for the IPC on the Feldspar either. Theoretically, he could have been on the Feldspar to meet regarding the Divergent Universe... except Screwllum wasn't there yet, and Ratio doesn't mention a single word about the Divergent Universe to the Trailblazer.

The only person Ratio talks about in his dialogue on the Feldspar is Aventurine, and the only non-Trailblazer he talks to in 2.3 at all is also Aventurine, replying to him and only him in the group chat.

He looked like he might give it a shot to try to befriend Boothill and Argenti at the end of 2.3... but immediately changes his mind and leaves without saying a word to them.

It's not really a stretch to suggest that the only reasonable excuse for Ratio to attend the party on the Feldspar was if he was there for Aventurine, a behavior that he himself notes is out of character. ("A waste of time" he says, as he stands there anyway.)

But, second and even more importantly: Ratio's single most defining character trait is that he believes people need to pick themselves up. The entire point of his debut appearance in the game was to present his philosophy that if the powerful or privileged intervene to continually "save" the mediocre, ordinary people will never learn for themselves or get the chance to grow. It is in times of desperation, he says, that fools exceed their limits and reach greatness.

This is why, in 1.6, he insisted on Asta and the Trailblazer being the ones to solve the attacks happening on the space station, without relying on Screwllum or the other geniuses. Although Ratio did actively intervene a little (using the phase flame to save the researchers from death), he did so only from behind the scenes, where his actual help would not be noticed by those affected and where it had no impact on their decision-making or their struggles to solve the mystery.

He let Asta and the Trailblazer panic. He let them flounder. He even deliberately misled them at points, claiming that Duke Inferno must have kidnapped the researchers (when it was actually Ratio himself who re-routed them).

Ultimately, Ratio let Asta and the Trailblazer grow from their experiences.

This is also why he lets the Trailblazer go blazing in to fight Ruan Mei's faux emanator of the propagation, despite knowing that Trailblazer was not actually strong enough to win. Ratio watched and was ready to intervene... but in the end he did not, because it was the Trailblazer's fight to lose.

Ratio's most defining character trait is that he believes standing back and observing is the true kindness, rather than inserting oneself and denying people their autonomy or opportunities to grow.

Buttttt... then there's Aventurine, and suddenly the story is completely different.

Suddenly, Ratio isn't an observer but becomes essential to the plan. He's even walking around making big claims about being the manager of the task, flexing all of his C+ acting ability to actively carry out their mutual ploy.

In 2.3, he claims he was just there to watch, and his Penacony sticker asserts he's only "a supporting character"--yet we have never seen Ratio take a more active role in the entire game. Unlike with the Trailblazer in 1.6, he's not primarily watching events unfold from shadowy corners. He's in Penacony as Aventurine's active partner in crime.

And, even more telling--he later jeopardizes their entire mission just to ask if Aventurine needs help.

What? Huh? The character who is famous for the voice line "You look distressed. Is something troubling you? If so, you can figure it out for yourself" is suddenly offering his assistance entirely unprompted?

The guy whose motto might as well be:

Is suddenly out here throwing his own core philosophy out the window to solve Penacony's mystery for Aventurine and save him from himself in Aventurine's hour of greatest need?

A lot of people get hung up on the second half of Ratio's letter, the part about staying alive, which of course is very sweet. But I think the second half causes people to forget that the first part of Ratio's letter is, quite literally, the answer to Penacony's mystery.

Ratio gave Aventurine the answer.

This is like if your professor just gave you and you alone the score key to the final exam and then turned around to insist he "doesn't play favorites."

Of course, Aventurine is brilliant and didn't need Ratio's answer about dormancy, which makes the fact that Ratio went out of the way to give it to him even more odd. Ratio despises unnecessary repetition. If he wasn't dead worried, he would never have given Aventurine an answer that Aventurine had the power to find on his own.

And, as far as canon tells us, Ratio has never done this for anyone else.

The difference is night and day. It's literally the Gordon Ramsay meme, with everyone else in the entire game being the "fucking donkeys" to Aventurine's "Oh dear. Gorgeous."

So: Even if we entirely put aside shipping, if we look strictly at what we're given in canon:

Ratio treats Aventurine with more respect than he treats most other characters in the game.

He involves himself in Aventurine's struggles in a way that he flat out refuses to do for anyone else.

He compromises his own beliefs purely out of concern for Aventurine.

So, at least as far as we've been shown in canon, it is accurate to state that Aventurine is the closest character to Ratio--and unlike Aventurine (king of self-gaslighting), Ratio isn't even good at acting like he doesn't care.

Frankly, the whole thing is a little sad. Ratio's behavior is so blatantly out of character that a smart person like Aventurine should easily be able to determine it is genuine, but Aventurine's personal hang-ups and ongoing trauma make it difficult for him to even see that authenticity, let alone put faith in it. Even in canon, Ratio is mostly unable to help himself when it comes to Aventurine, which is especially unfortunate given how badly skewed Aventurine's perception of himself and others is by the start of Penacony's story.

PHEW! I finally made it through canon content!

Now there's just... everything else... 🫠

Well, to be honest, I don't think I could ever manage to put all my thoughts about this ship into one post. Probably not even fifty posts.

So rather than trying to say everything there is to say about Ratiorine, what I want to focus on is how fantastically these two characters just fit together. Like puzzle pieces that need to be mirror opposites in order to link, these two characters parallel each other while also perfectly filling in each other's voids. It's some of the best character pair writing I've seen in a long time (though I'm still sort of convinced it was at least 50% sheer luck on Hoyo's part), and my perspective on their ship can really be tied to my underlying perception of Ratio and Aventurine's characters as remarkably similar individuals:

It's obvious that Aventurine is not a healthy or well-adjusted adult man, but like... neither is Ratio.

Both of these characters are "not quite right" marginalized people who, at least in my interpretation, have essentially given up on even faking normality and are now just vaguely play acting their way through being functioning members of a universe that is entirely unequipped to accept them for who they are. In a world full of cyborg cowboys and people with wings growing from their heads, the game still manages to somehow convince us that Aventurine and Ratio are odd ones out.

Kakavasha can't even exist in the dystopian capitalist hellscape of the IPC's machinations. "Aventurine" isn't even a real person, just a never-ending performance, a slick, devil-may-care persona without a single ounce of substance.

Ratio, meanwhile, is a world of one, rejected from the only place he thought he could find validation and acceptance but unable to lower himself to fit in anywhere else.

Aventurine is so bad at making genuine connections that he turns everyday conversations into gambles because he doesn't believe people will care enough to keep talking to him without tangible incentive.

Ratio's insistence on treating everyone as students, not as equals, also means he has an excuse to never emotionally engage with anyone he meets. (This is not at all a textbook method of intentional avoidance to prevent any chance of social rejection. Not at all.)

At the end of the day, Aventurine and Ratio both come across as desperately lonely, and so caught up in their own situations that they really don't have the ability to climb out of that hole on their own.

Preventing them from even being able to maintain any form of relationship is also the fact that neither one of them can even find justification. Neither one of them has a reasonable answer to the question "Why am I alive?" anymore, because Aventurine's reason died on Sigonia and Ratio's reason died with an IPC invitation instead of a Genius Society letter. Though their differing perspectives have led them on opposite paths pursuing their own answers to that ultimate question of "Why should I keep living?" (Aventurine was headed toward giving up before the end of Penacony, while Ratio has invented an immeasurable, impossible goal to distract himself from feeling purposeless), both of them are pretty much miserably unfulfilled in their current lives.

They're also both violently allergic to emotional vulnerability and to having any of their flaws or true desires actually be perceived. Both of them put up insanely high walls. Aventurine pushes boundaries with everyone he meets to provoke their hatred in advance, before they can come to disdain him for his "real" flaws. He acts out harmful racist stereotypes to use others' preconceptions for advantage, manipulating every situation he's in--incidentally affirming the stereotypes against his people by doing so.

Ratio puts a physical wall of plaster between himself and others, but the plaster bust actually doesn't have anything on the mental and emotional gymnastics he's engaged in to justify his isolation from the world, doing everything in his power to convince himself that he's isolated by choice, that it's perfectly logical for Veritas Ratio to have nowhere to truly belong, no one to truly belong with. He's so mundane after all. Of course the geniuses don't want him, that's just commonsense. But everyone else is so... different, so foolish, so illogical... It just wouldn't be reasonable of him to try to become one of them either, to be their friend instead of their distant educator. (You know, if you never try to integrate with others, then they can't reject you. Ratio has learned his lesson.)

Somehow, Aventurine and Ratio are two of the most competent and successful people in Star Rail's entire universe and simultaneously also two of the most misfit, reject, dysfunctional messes in the game. Like... Blade has a better support network than Aventurine and Ratio combined. The 7000-pound murderous mech with a disabled, genetically-modified war veteran who never got to live a normal human life hiding inside it is more capable of making friends than Aventurine and Dr. Ratio.

Which is why I love that the devs decided to make their canon backstory: "Some absolute treasures in the IPC and the Intelligentsia Guild had the galaxy-brained idea of pairing Ratio and Aventurine as strategic partners." The game's writing really said: "These two characters are so socially stunted, they have to be assigned a relationship like it's homework."

They may not have it all figured out yet, but the fans see the design: Now that Ratio and Aventurine have each other, they're not alone anymore. I have never seen two characters better fit the "Is anyone going to match my freak?" meme only for the actual answer to be "Yes."

Ratio is "plays chess with himself" levels of loner weird? No problem--Aventurine is "Wanna take bets on who's going to die today?" weirder. Ratio wears a plaster bust to ward off idiots? Aventurine transforms into a monster on command, which is pretty much guaranteed to achieve the same effect.

Ratio wasn't chosen by Nous? That's fine, Aventurine's one job as a "chosen one" was to save his people and now they're all dead. Nobody can keep up with Ratio in conversation? Watch a single comment from Aventurine turn him into a fumbling mess on live television.

Ratio's inability to relate to the experiences and development of any peers his own age have left him extremely isolated and with a permanently scarred sense of self-worth? Wow, I wonder if Aventurine knows exactly what that feels like.

They just... fit.

And, changing focus a little here at the end: While I personally think that recovery from trauma requires internal motivation and self-kindness foremost, I also think that Ratio and Aventurine's relationship should be considered from the perspective of how they help to fill each other's gaps.

Unlike any connection at the Genius Society who will always evoke unpleasant memories of Nous's rejection, Aventurine isn't going to make Ratio feel intellectually inferior. Aventurine has nothing but good things to say about Ratio's intelligence, and it's even apparent that Ratio felt comfortable enough to at least mention his Genius Society woes to Aventurine, something he explicitly does not do with anyone else.

Even when it comes to social interactions, Aventurine isn't going to make Ratio feel inadequate, because honestly? Aventurine's almost as bad at them as Ratio. Aventurine is much better at faking it socially, but when it actually counts? When he's trying to be real with others? A solid 70% of the people who meet Aventurine still end up wanting to strangle him. The guy tried to apologize for threatening to detonate the Trailblazer like a bomb by buying them a model train...

Then there's this:

Aventurine is the only character explicitly called Ratio's equal in game, and more than just treating him respectfully as an equal, Aventurine also exhibits one extreme appeal that no one else in game has ever shown to Ratio: Aventurine makes Ratio feel needed. For Aventurine, Ratio is not a forgettable after-thought as he is to Herta and most of the other geniuses. He's not just "some weird guy who scolds me about school" like he is to the Trailblazer. Ratio's intellect and skill were integral to Aventurine's plan from step one to the very end. Ratio has a place in Aventurine's plots. For a character who directly assesses worth by how beneficial a person can be to others, the fact that Aventurine can make Ratio feel wanted and valued probably produced some of the strongest personal fulfillment Ratio has had in years.

On the opposite side, Ratio's in a unique position. Out of every relevant character in Aventurine's story, Ratio is the only one who has nothing to lose by choosing Kakavasha over "Aventurine." Ratio doesn't profit off Aventurine or take any expensive gifts from him, like the Trailblazer does. He doesn't need Aventurine's luck for anything at all. He'd be able to work for the IPC even if Aventurine wasn't in it. Ratio certainly doesn't want the glitz and glamour of a shallow gambling hustler persona. His work doesn't require Aventurine's continued involvement like Topaz's and Jade's does. He'd probably prefer not to know any Stonehearts at all, thank you for asking.

Outside of deliberate-acting insults about Sigonians for Sunday's sake, we're not told that Ratio has any connections to--and therefore has no preconceived biases against--Sigonians. Being a person who values self-determination and a refusal to live in mediocrity above all else, he would have nothing but esteem for how far Aventurine has managed to come despite the harsh circumstances of his life. Ratio probably wouldn't even think Aventurine's belief in Gaiathra is that strange; one of Ratio's doctorates is actually in theology.

Unlike literally everyone else in the universe who needs "Aventurine," we have every indication that Ratio's respect and admiration will only grow when he finally gets to meet "Kakavasha."

Loneliness, rejection, betrayal, a lack of understanding from others--all of these can leave wounds that only genuine, deep bonds with others can heal.

On death's doorway, in the darkest shadow, when Aventurine had to make the choice between passing on to be with the family that loved him and choosing to return to a reality without them... Ratio's letter was there, telling Aventurine the exact thing he needed to hear to choose life: Someone is waiting for you to come home.

If the resounding rejection of Star Rail's Nihility is belief in humanity's power to make meaning in our own lives through our connections to others, then the ultimate message of Ratio and Aventurine's arc in Penacony is that no one needs to be alone. The world is not as empty as you fear.

And that is a message that Ratio and Aventurine can learn best through each other.

(I just... love them so much...)

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okaylokii · 9 months ago

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#Star Trek #star trek aos #earth and vulcan’s top arguers and their boss on vacation #they’re my emotional support triumvirate #Captain Kirk #commander Spock #doctor mccoy #James t Kirk #Leonard McCoy #schn tgai spock #Star Trek 2009 #they are so 22 year old me first autumn coded #shore leave on an alien planet but it’s just the PNW

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mxmarsbars · 1 month ago

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kitty kitty meow meow ^.^

#mxmarsart #he’s literally so cheetah coded don’t even play with me #the color scheme. his speed and efficiency that often only comes in big bursts followed by extreme exhaustion. his anxiousness.#it just makes sense!!#also featuring his emotional support dogs like the emotional support dogs cheetahs in captivity sometimes have #please all three of you team up next series season please i am on my hands and knees begging I NEED TEAM RIP #impulsesv #impulsesv fanart #pearlescentmoon #pearlescentmoon fanart #rendog #rendog fanart #alienkeep #alienkeep fanart #impdog #impdog fanart #trafficblr

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glitter-stained · 5 months ago

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Damasio, The Trolley Problem and Batman: Under the Hood

Okay so @bestangelofall asked me to elaborate on what I meant by "Damasio's theories on emotions in moral decision-making add another level of depth to the analysis of UTH as a moral dilemma" and I thought this deserved its own post so let's talk about this.

So, idk where everyone is at here (philosophy was mandatory in highschool in my country but apparently that's not the case everywhere so i genuinely have no clue what's common knowledge here, i don't want to like state the obvious but also we should recap some stuff. Also if I'm mentioning a philosopher's or scientist's name without detailing, that means it's just a passing thought/recommendation if you want to read more on the topic.)

First thing first is I've seen said, about jason and the no killing rule, that "killing is always bad that's not up for debate". And I would like to say, that's factually untrue. Like, no matter which side of the debate you are on, there is very much a debate. Historically a big thing even. So if that's not something you're open to hear about, if you're convinced your position is the only correct one and even considering other options is wrong and/or a waste of time... I recommend stopping here, because this only going to make you upset, and you have better stuff to do with your life than getting upset over an essay. In any case please stay civil and remember that this post is not about me debating ethics with the whole bat-tumblr, it's me describing a debate other people have been voicing for a long time, explaining the position Damasio's neuropsychology and philosophy holds in this debate, and analyzing the ethics discussed in Batman: Under the Red Hood in that light. So while I might talk about my personal position in here (because I have an opinion in this debate), this isn't a philosophy post; this is a literature analysis that just so happens to exist within the context of a neuropsychological position on a philosophical debate. Do not try to convince me that my philosophy of ethics is wrong, because that's not the point, that's not what the post is about, I find it very frustrating and you will be blocked. I don't have the energy to defend my personal opinions against everybody who disagrees with me.

Now, let's start with Bruce. Bruce, in Under The Hood and wrt the no kill rule (not necessarily all of his ethics, i'm talking specifically about the no kill rule), is defending a deontological position. Deontology is a philosophy of ethics coined by christian🧷 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant. The philosophy of ethics asks this question: what does it mean to do a good action? And deontology answers "it means to do things following a set of principles". Basically Kant describes what are "absolute imperatives" which are rules that hold inherent moral values: some things are fundamentally wrong and others are bad. Batman's no-kill rule is thus a categorical imperative: "Though Shall not Kill"🧷, it is always wrong to kill. (Note that I am not saying Bruce is kantian just because he has a deontology: Kant explained the concept of deontological ethics, and then went up to theorize his own very specific and odd brand of deontology, which banned anything that if generalized would cause the collapse of society as well as, inexplicably, masturbation. Bruce is not Kantian, he's just, regarding the no kill rule, deontological. Batman is still allowed to wank, don't worry.)

In this debate, deontological ethics are often pit up against teleological ethics, the most famous group of which being consequentialism, the most famous of consequentialisms being utilitarism. As the name indicates, consequentialist theories posit that the intended consequences of your actions determine if those actions were good or not. Utilitarism claims that to do good, your actions should aim to maximise happiness for the most people possible. So Jason, when he says "one should kill the Joker to prevent the thousands of victims he is going to harm if one does not kill him", is holding a utilitarian position.

The debate between deontology and utilitarism has held many forms, some fantastical and some with more realistic approaches to real life like "say you're hiding from soldiers and you're holding a baby that's gonna start crying, alerting the soldiers and getting everyone in your hideout massacred. Do you muffle the baby, knowing it will suffocate and kill it?" or "say there's a plague going on and people are dying and the hospital does not have enough ventilators, do you take the one off of the comatose patient with under 0.01% chance of ever waking up to give it to another patient? What about 1%?", etc, etc. The most famous derivative of this dilemma, of course, being the infamous trolley problem.

This is what is meant when we say "the UTH confrontation is a trolley problem." The final confrontation at the warehouse is a variation, a derivative of the utilitarian dilemma that goes as follows: "if someone was trying to kill someone in front of you, and that murder would prevent the murder of thousands, should you try to stop that murder or let it happen?"

Now, here's a question: why are there so many derivatives of the trolley problem? Why do philosophers spend time pondering different versions of the same question instead of solving it?

My opinion (and the one of much, much smarter people whose name i forgot oops) is that both systems fail at giving us a satisfying, clean-cut reply. Now, most people have a clean-cut answer to the trolley problem as presented here: me personally, I lean more towards utilitarianism, and I found it logical to pull the lever. But altering the exact situation makes me change my answer, and there is very often a point where people, no matter their deontological or utilitarian velleities, change their answer. And that's interesting to examine.

So let's talk about deontology. Now my first gripe with deontology it's that it posits a set of rules as absolute and I find that often quite arbitrary. 🧷 Like, it feels a little like mathematical axioms, you know? We build a whole worldview on the assumption that these rules are inherently correct and the best configuration because it feels like it makes sense, and accidentally close our mind to the world of non-euclidian ethics. In practice, here are some situations in which a deontologist might change their mind: self-defense killing, for example, is often cited as "an exception to the rule", making that rule de facto non-universal; and disqualifying it as an absolute imperative. Strangely enough, people will often try to solve the trolley problem by deciding to kill themselves by jumping on the tracks 🧷 which is actually a utilitarian solution: whether you're pulling the lever or you're jumping on the tracks, you are choosing to kill one person to stop the people from being run over. Why does it matter if it's you or someone else you're killing? You're still killing someone. Another situation where people may change their answer would be, like "what if you needed to save your children but to do so you had to kill the ceo of united healthcare?" Note that these are only examples for killing, but the biggest issue is that deontology preaches actions are always either good or wrong, and the issue with that lack of nuance is best illustrated with the kantian problem regarding the morality of lying: let's say it's the holocaust and a family of jews is hiding in your house. Let's say a nazi knocks on your door and asks if there are people hiding in your house. You know if you tell the truth, the jews in your house will be deported. In that situation, is it morally correct to lie? Now, Kant lived before the Holocaust, but in his time there was a similar version of this problem that had been verbalised (this formulation is the best-known derivative of this problem btw, I didn't invent it) and Kant's answer, I kid you not, was still "no it is not morally acceptable to lie in that situation".

And of course, there are variations of that problem that play with the definition of killing- what defines the act of killing and can the other circumstances (like if there's a person you need to save) alter that definition? => Conclusion: there is a lot more nuance to moral actions than what a purely deontological frame claims, and pushing deontology to its limits leads to situations that would feel absurd to us.

Now let's take utilitarianism to its own limits. Say you live in a world where healthcare has never been better. Now say this system is so because there is a whole small caste of people who have been cloned and genetically optimized and conditioned since birth so that their organs could be harvested at any given moment to heal someone. Let's say this system is so performant it has optimised this world's humanity's general well-being and health, leading to an undeniable, unparalleled positive net-worth for humanity. Here's the question: is this world a utopia or a dystopia? Aka, is raising a caste of people as organ cattle morally acceptable in that situation? (Note: Because people's limits on utilitarianism vary greatly from one person to another, I chose the most extreme example I could remember, but of course there are far more nuanced ones. Again, I wasn't the one to come up with this example. If you're looking for examples of this in fiction, i think the limits of utilitarianism are explored pretty interestingly in the videogame The Last of Us).

=> Conclusion: there is a lot more nuance to moral actions than what a purely utilitarian frame claims, and pushing utilitarism to its limits leads to situations that would feel absurd to us.

This leads us back to Under the Hood. Now because UTH includes a scathing criticism of Batman's no kill rule deontology, but Jason is also presented as a villain in this one, my analysis of the whole comic is based on the confrontation between both of these philosophies and their failures, culminating in a trolley dilemma type situation. So this is why it makes sense to have Bruce get mad at Jason for killing Captain Nazi in self-defense: rejecting self-defense, even against nazis, is the logical absurd conclusion of deontology. Winick is simply taking Bruce's no-kill rule to the limit.

And that's part of what gets me about Jason killing goons (aside from the willis todd thing that should definitely have been addressed in such a plot point.) It's that it feels to me like Jason's philosophy is presented as wrong because it leads to unacceptable decisions, but killing goons is not the logical absurd conclusion of utilitarianism. It's a. a side-effect of Jason's plot against Bruce and/or, depending on how charitable you are to either Jason's intelligence or his morals, b. a miscalculation. Assuming Jason's actions in killing goons are a reflection of his moral code (which is already a great assumption, because people not following their own morals is actually the norm, we are not paragons of virtue), then this means that 1) he has calculated that those goons dying would induce an increase in general global human happiness and thus 2) based on this premise, he follows the utilitarian framework and thus believes it's moral to kill the goons. It's the association of (1) and (2) that leads to an absurd and blatantly immoral consequence, but since the premise (1) is a clear miscalculation, the fact that (1) & (2) leads to something wrong does not count as a valid criticism of (2): to put it differently, since the premise is wrong, the conclusion being wrong does not give me any additional info on the value of the reasoning. This is a little like saying "Since 1+ 3= 5 and 2+2=4, then 1+3+2+2 = 9". The conclusion is wrong, but because the first part (1+3=5) is false, the conclusion being wrong does not mean that the second part (2+2 =4) is wrong. So that's what frustrates me so much when people bring up Jason killing goons as a gotcha for criticizing his utilitarian philosophy, because it is not!! It looks like it from afar but it isn't, which is so frustrating because, as stated previously, there are indeed real limits to utilitarianism that could have been explored instead to truly level the moral playing field between Jason and Bruce.

Now that all of this is said and done, let's talk about what in utilitarianism and deontology makes them flawed and, you guessed it, talk some about neuropsychology (and how that leads to what's imo maybe the most interesting thing about the philosophy in Under the Hood.)

In Green Arrow (2001), in an arc also written by Judd Winick, Mia Dearden meets a tortured man who begs her to kill him to save Star City (which is being massacred), and she kills him, then starts to cry and begs Ollie for confirmation that this was the right thing to do. Does this make Mia a utilitarian? If so, then why did she doubt and cry? Is she instead a deontologist, who made a mistake?

In any case, the reason why Mia's decision was so difficult for her to make and live with, and the reason why all of these trolley-adjacent dilemmas are so hard, is pretty clear. Mia's actions were driven by fear and empathy. It's harder to tolerate sacrificing our own child to avoid killing, it's harder to decide to sacrifice a child than an adult, a world where people are raised to harvest their organs feels horrible because these are real humans we can have empathy towards and putting ourselves in their shoes is terrifying... So we have two "perfectly logical" rational systems toppled by our emotions. But which is wrong: should we try to shut down our empathy and emotions so as to always be righteous? Are they a parasite stopping us from being true moral beings?

Classically, we (at least in my culture in western civilization) have historically separated emotions from cognition (cognition being the domain of thought, reasoning, intelligence, etc.) Descartes, for example, was a philosopher who highlighted a dualist separation of emotion and rationality. For a long time this was the position in psychology, with even nowadays some people who think normal psychologists are for helping with emotions and neuropsychologists are for helping with cognition.(I will fight these people with a stick.) Anyway, that position was the predominant one in psychology up until Damasio (not the famous writer, the neuropsychologist) wrote a book named Descartes' Error. (A fundamental of neuropsychology and a classic that conjugates neurology, psychology and philosophy: what more could you ask for?)

Damasio's book's title speaks for itself: you cannot separate emotion from intelligence. For centuries we have considered emotions to be parasitic towards reasoning, (which even had implications on social themes and constructs through the centuries 📌): you're being emotional, you're letting emotions cloud your judgement, you're emotionally compromised, you're not thinking clearly... (Which is pretty pertinent to consider from the angle of A Death in the Family, because this is literally the reproach Bruce makes to Jason). Damasio based the book on the Damasio couple's (him and his wife) study of Phineas Gage, a very, very famous case of frontal syndrome (damage to the part of the brain just behind the forehead associated with executive functions issues, behavioural issues and emotional regulation). The couple's research on Gage lead Damasio, in his book, to this conclusion: emotions are as much of a part of reasoning and moral decision-making as "cold cognition" (non emotional functioning). Think of it differently: emotional intelligence is a skill. Emotions are tools. On an evolutionary level, it is good that we as people have this skill to try and figure out what others might think and do. That's useful. Of course, that doesn't mean that struggling with empathy makes you immoral, but we people who struggle with empathy have stories of moments where that issue has made us hurt someone's feelings on accident, and it made us sad, because we didn't want to hurt their feelings. On an evolutionary level (and this is where social Darwinism fundamentally fails) humanity has been able to evolve in group and in a transgenerational group (passing knowledge from our ancestors long after their death, belonging to a community spread over a time longer than our lifetime) thanks to social cognition (see Tomasello's position on the evolution of language for more detail on that), and emotions, and "emotional intelligence" is a fundamental part of how that great system works across the ages.

And that's what makes Batman: Under the Hood brilliant on that regard. If I have to make a hypothesis on the state of Winick's knowledge on that stuff, I would say I'm pretty sure he knew about the utilitarism vs deontology issue; much harder to say about the Damasio part, but whether he's well-read in neuropsychology classics or just followed a similar line of reasoning, this is a phenomenally fun framework to consider UTH under.

Because UTH, and Jason's character for the matter, refuse to disregard emotions. Bruce says "we mustn't let ourselves get clouded by our emotions" and Jason, says "maybe you should." I don't necessarily think he has an ethical philosophy framework for that, I still do believe he's a utilitarian, but he's very emotion-driven and struggling to understand a mindframe that doesn't give the same space to emotions in decision-making. And as such, Jason says "it should matter. If the emotion was there, if you loved me so much, then it should matter in your decision of whether or not to let the Joker die, that it wasn't just a random person that he killed, but that he killed your son."

And Bruce is very much doubling down on this mindset of "I must be stronger than my feelings". He is an emotionally repressed character. He says "You don't understand. I don't think you've ever understood", and it's true, Jason can't seem to understand Bruce's position, there's something very "if that person doesn't show love in my perspective and understanding of what love is then they do not love me" about his character that I really appreciate. But Bruce certainly doesn't understand either, because while Jason is constantly asking Bruce for an explanation, for a "why do you not see things the way I do" that could never satisfy him, Bruce doesn't necessarily try to see things the way Jason does. And that's logical, since Jason is a 16 years old having a mental breakdown, and Bruce is a grown man carrying on the mission he has devoted himself to for years, the foundation he has built his life over. He can't allow himself to doubt, and why would he? He's the adult, he's the hero, he is, honestly, a pretty stubborn and set-in-his-ways character. So, instead of rising to the demand of emotional decision-making, Bruce doubles down on trying to ignore his feelings. And Jason, and the story doesn't let him. Bludheaven explodes. This induces extremely intense feelings in Bruce (his son just got exploded), which Jason didn't allow him to deal with, to handle with action or do anything about; Jason says no you stay right there, with me, with those emotions you're living right now, and you're making a decision. And there's the fact Bruce had a mini-heart attack just before thinking Jason was dead again. And there's the fact he mourned Jason for so long, and Stephanie just died, and Tim, Cass and Oracle all left, and the Joker is right there, and Jason puts a gun in his hands (like the gun that killed his parents)... All of that makes it impossible for Bruce to disregard his emotions. The same way Jason, who was spilling utilitarian rhetoric the whole time, is suddenly not talking about the Joker's mass murder victims but about he himself. The same way Jason acts against his own morals in Lost Days by sparing the Joker so they can have this confrontation later. That's part of why it's so important to me that Jason is crying in that confrontation.

Bruce's action at the end of the story can be understood two ways:

-he decides to maim/kill Jason to stop the insupportable influx of emotions, and him turning around is his refusal to look at his decision (looking away as a symbol of shame): Bruce has lost, in so that he cannot escape the dilemma, he succumbs to his emotions and acts against his morals.

-the batarang slicing Jason's throat is an accident: he is trying to find a way out of the dilemma, a solution that lets him save his principles, but his emotions cloud his judgement (maybe his hand trembles? Maybe his vision is blurry?). In any case, he kills his son, and it being an accident doesn't absolve him: his emotions hold more weight than his decision and he ends up acting against his morals anyway.

It's a very old story: a deontologist and a utilitarian try to solve the trolley problem, and everyone still loses. And who's laughing? The nihilist, of course. To him, nothing has sense, and so nothing matters. He's wrong though, always has been. That's the lesson I'm taking from Damasio's work. That's the prism through which I'm comparing empathy to ethics in Levinas' work and agape in Compté-Sponsville's intro to philosophy through.

It should matter. It's so essential that it matters. Love, emotions, empathy: those are fundamental in moral evaluation and decision making. They are a feature, not a bug. And the tragedy is when we try to force ourselves to make them not matter.

Anyway so that was my analysis of why Damasio's position on ethics is so fun to take in account when analysing UTH, hope you found this fun!

#dc #jason todd #dc comics #red hood #under the red hood #anti batman #anti bruce wayne #(< for filtering)#jason todd meta #neuropsychology meta #now with the philosophy extension!!#once again having very intense thoughts about Under The Hood #me talking about the “killing goons” part: this comic is so infuriating #me talking about the final confrontation: this is the greatest comic ever 😭😭#winick stop toying with my emotions challenge #anyway I put a couple of pins on some of the ideas in there don't worry about it #also i was told that color coding helped with clarity so hopefully that's still the case!

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