#reactive abuse

[awkwardandeccentric]

I think Octavia knows more than she’s letting on.

Let me preface this by saying I will not allow any Octavia slander or victim-blaming for Stolas. Octavia is a child and Stolas is surviving domestic violence. It’s an on-site block if I see that nonsense.

Having said that

Going off my own experiences watching my parents, I always knew something was…off. I couldn’t place it. I couldn’t name it. I was too young to understand the concept of abuse. My parents were married. They loved each other…right?

Unlike Stella and Stolas, my parents actually had loved each other at some point. But that didn’t change the fact that my earliest memories are of extreme stress, living in tension I didn’t cause but felt it was my job to fix. If I couldn’t fix it, I needed to avoid it.

Octavia seems to go the avoiding route. She plays music whenever she can, she tries to stay out of her parents’ way, and she doesn’t react at all to her mom throwing her dad’s plants around or screaming while tossing their butler at him.

Stella, by abusing Stolas, is also abusing Octavia. How do you think that affects her? Even if Stolas and Stella keep the worst of it away from her, she’s still hearing her mother use racist, degrading language towards her father and seeing Stella be violent with his things. She’s still learning that that’s an acceptable response to stress. Having a parent lose their shit at you for the simplest of things also dysregulates your nervous system. Chronic yelling is abusive because it puts you into fight/flight/freeze mode 24/7. That’s going to wreak havoc on your mind and body. Octavia has learned to keep her head down and stay invisible so she doesn’t have to deal with it (as is not her job. The abuser is always 100% at fault for the abuse. It’s also not a child’s job to protect a parent).

We also know she had nightmares as a kid of Stolas vanishing. I’ve seen speculation that this is her powers manifesting and I don’t disagree- this is a fantasy show- but I also think her subconscious knows there’s danger in her home. Her little five-year-old mind knows something is very wrong and the consequence of things not being made right is her father disappearing (and she was right. Stolas is only alive because Andrealphus convinced Stella to call off the hit).

We also never see her actually interact with Stella. Every time she talks about her parents, she’s either talking about Stolas as an individual or both of them as a unit. There’s no portraits of her playing with Stella. She never mentions good memories of Stella. She knows subconsciously that Stella is an unsafe, uninvolved parent and Stolas is her safe place.

Except, Stolas is fighting back.

There’s this thing that’s not talked about often called ‘reactive abuse.’ It’s when the victim is pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed until they yell back or hit back. And then the abuser gets to turn around and say “oh my god you’re so abusive how could you do this to me??”

When Octavia is complaining about Stolas and Stella “screaming at each other” I think what she’s actually seeing is Stolas pushed to his limit and biting back after 17 years of keeping himself as small and quiet as possible. But because she doesn’t have this language or knowledge, to her, it looks like he’s fighting with Stella, the known aggressor, for no reason.

Where am I going with this? Idk. Set this girl up with a case worker and a workbook on domestic abuse.

[stephaniestarshine]

Am I crazy or was Tamlin a victim of reactive abuse?

[thearchivaljinglebeast]

Yes, these are also my experiences with (alleged) narcissists.

[lightofraye]

Another View

So… the other day my inbox exploded. Imagine my surprise, waking up, rolling out of bed, doing a check of notifications and my eyes popping out in surprise. Quite a few of my followers were sharing their distress at another blogger’s claim. I know this blogger. We’ve spoken in the past, often privately but occasionally in reblogs.

We share a difference of opinion here. They know this, I know it. We respect our difference of opinions. I even gave them a polite heads up on this post, because I didn’t want them to think I’m calling them out. At most, all I am doing is disagreeing.

See… having a temper does not make a person abusive. I have a temper. My daughter has a temper. Hell, even my daughter-in-law has a temper. We are all human. All of us have our limits, our moments, that we explode—and it’s not always rational or understandable.

Now, keep in mind, I am not excusing Jensen having these volatile moments. The hotel door story has me puzzled, because he wouldn’t—shouldn’t—share something like that unless it genuinely was okay. Him blowing up at someone he seemingly almost hit? Yeah, no, not cool.

Does that translate into being an abuser himself? Respectfully… no.

It’s Jensen being able to safely (not really, but work with me here) at others when he’s unable to do so at Danneel. Does he have moments where he blows up at Danneel? I’m sure he does. And frequently probably regrets it, if Danneel is anything like other abusers. It can be manipulated and turned into a “See? This is why I can’t talk to you. You blow up like this and then suddenly it’s all my fault.”

It’s extremely rare for both people in a relationship to be abusive. It’s why I wrote about reactive abuse not too long ago. Mutual abuse just rarely happens. It’s likely if Jensen is acting out, it’s because he was being abused first.

Does that mean the other blogger is wrong? No. Does it mean I’m wrong? No. More we have different interpretation of certain celebrities and situations. Our experiences color our perceptions, how we view scenarios.

In so many ways, the “truth” has multiple views. Even witnesses of a car accident will see everything differently. One person will be 100% certain that one car hit the other first, while the other would be positive it was someone else. This is why eyewitnesses are shaky to depend on for court trials. This is why evidence, hard evidence, such as photographs, expert opinions, videos, are so important.

And then the reasoning behind such situations. Why did Jensen lose his temper over a hotel door not opening? Why did he have to blow up at that gentleman? What was the trigger behind all that? Was it because he couldn’t blow up at Danneel? Get her to stop? But this—a door? Kick it in! Instead of owning up to his fault, Jensen had to turn the blame on the gentleman? Because for once, he didn’t want to be at fault?

There are so many different ways of viewing it. So many interpretations.

In the end, the one who can say otherwise is Jensen. There are stories he tell that have me pausing and going “Why that story? That doesn’t put you in a good light.” Did he feel unworthy of good stories? Of being seen in a good light? Or was it so normal to him that he doesn’t realize how alarming it came across to others?

(Certainly I wonder why he thought he had to share that his father beat him with a belt…)

In the end, we have our stances. This blogger knows mine. I know hers. We respect one another’s opinions.

[neurotypicalabusesurvivor]

By the way someone being angry and yelling at you when you invalidate their trauma is normal when you know that what they went through was traumatizing. They did not abuse you because you were the abusive one because you engaged in reactive abuse.

Reactive abuse is when you engage in a behavior that is so bad that the other person snaps and acts aggressive towards you. The abuser will then weaponize this reaction against you.

[simplysebby]

something something my reactions to your hate were inappropriate but only I got punished and that was unfair

[tentacle-therapissed]

hi! regarding your latest post about Amber, I’ve honestly just recently realized what actually had been going. do you have any sources or arguments I could use/share for Johnny supporters? (Aka 99% of the people IRL)

Easiest thing I can do is point you to the blog @justiceamberheard . They have a pinned masterpost breaking down the trial and allegations and going into detail about some things I’m choosing not to address in this reply such as Depp’s dishonesty about his drug addictions, other lies/inconsistencies in his testimony, and overall shitty behavior (racism, misogyny, associating with awful people, terrible parenting, etc) as well as debunking some ridiculous claims like the shitting in bed stuff. Also, a lot of evidence like photos of Heard’s injuries and of trashed rooms as well as Depp’s verbal abuse against her— all of which I’m choosing not to bring up here just because in my experience it’s simply not good enough for Depp fans. The blog also makes sure to post about other high profile abuse cases like the ones against Marilyn Manson, Brad Pitt, Jonathan Majors, Justin Baldoni, etc. They’re doing amazing work.

The youtube channel Incredibly Incredible has posted the full unedited versions of their recorded conversations together as well as some other illuminating evidence videos; any reasonable person who takes the time to actually listen to the full recordings should come out of it with a good idea of what kind of person Depp is, but the full recordings are multiple hours long so a lot of people would prefer to listen to the shortened, smear campaign-approved versions and just pretend like they listened to the whole thing.

Some of the most clear cut evidence of Depp’s abuse, in my personal opinion:

Texts from both Depp (who is named Steve in her phone because of some weird gross pet names they gave each other, but if you’re talking to a ‘I followed every detail of this trial’ person they should already know that lmao) and his assistant Stephen Deuters after Depp kicked Amber on a plane to Boston in 2014. Amber says ‘he’s done this before’ to Deuters who does not deny it. Depp later claimed on trial that he never kicked her and that she was the one antagonizing him during this plane ride.

Texts from Depp apologizing for getting enraged, going too far, being a lunatic, etc… all his words, not mine

this video which in itself could be considered abuse via intimidation in some states— this was the earliest piece of evidence I remember seeing that really solidified my stance in believing Amber, because his behavior in it is genuinely triggering

this audio clip where he admits to headbutting her in the forehead— again, something Heard brought up on trial and that he denied, since he’s apparently ‘never laid a finger’ on her

audio clips of him telling her that she should beg him not to hurt her or to ‘bring the monster out’ during arguments; a common abuser tactic is to separate your abusive actions from yourself by referring to it like an alter ego (worth noting that whenever they talk about Australia, they’re talking about the incident in which he violently raped her with a bottle while telling her over and over again that he was going to kill her)

many many many many audio clips of him agreeing/not denying when Amber talks about his abusive behaviors, including this one where he specifically says that he didn’t call her a liar and doesn’t deny her claim that he knows she’s telling the truth about her abuse. Also, note that in the audio clip where she talks about being afraid that he would kill her, he not only fails to defend himself from such a serious and horrifying accusation but also does not deny her claim that he cut off his own finger.

this audio clip where he talks about their relationship being physical abusive and says they’re a ‘crime scene waiting to happen’; this audio clip where he talks about getting in physical fights

Those last clips are important because once again, remember that he claimed on the stand to have never laid a finger on her. But they also might not work if you’re trying to argue with a ‘they both abused each other’ person. In those cases I usually just direct the person to some sources about how mutual abuse isn’t a thing. These sources are also important when bringing up the times Amber attacked Johnny, which happened like thrice:

-One time because he was trying to attack her sister, which Amber and her sister both testify to have been what happened

-On at least one occasion she threw pots and pans at him to try and get him to stop hurting her

-The infamous ‘I wasn’t punching you, I was hitting you’ ‘I did start a physical fight’ and ‘I can’t promise I won’t get physical’ audio clips; the context for all of these was that which Depp slammed a door on her toes while she was trying to check on him and she hit him instinctively to keep him away; He then claimed he hadn’t meant to hurt her and so she tried to apologize and take accountability for her part in their fights. Which if you ask me, she shouldn’t have even had to do. but wtv

Once again, the earliest proven instance of him abusing her was in 2014 and according to Amber the abuse started in 2012. All these instances of her retaliating happened YEARS later. Any instances where she hurt or mocked him would be considered reactive defense. An imperfect victim is still a victim. ‘Kill all rapists’ but when Amber hit hers a few times and called him a baby she was out of line, I guess?

Other points/counterarguments

-the infamous ‘tell the world, Johnny’ audio clip; if you listen to the full phone call this comes from, your heart will break because she goes on to tell him that the evidence she’s gathered of his abuse is too strong, that he’s bigger and stronger than her and could kill her if he wanted, that there’s no way he’ll be able to convince the courts he isn’t guilty. This wasn’t an abuser mocking her victim and saying no one will believe him because he’s a man. It was a victim incorrectly assuming that the justice system would actually be JUST and that any sane person would recognize him as the abuser that he is.

-‘Amber was arrested for domestic abuse against a previous partner’ yes and the case was dropped instantly because her PARTNER SAID SHE WASN’T BEING ABUSED. You try to explain this to a Depp fan and they short-circuit. Tasya van Ree supports Amber and has said that the arrest was made based on a misunderstanding that likely stemmed from misogyny and/or homophobia. It really does not matter if the cops who made the arrest claim otherwise, I’m not believing some fucking cops over the actual would-be abuse victim.

-meanwhile Johnny Depp’s ex Ellen Barkin literally testified saying that he was abusive to her in many of the ways Heard also claims he was abusive: that he drank too much, was overly jealous and possessive, and that he threw a bottle at her on at least one occasion. Deppford wives’ best defense of this was that Ellen Barkin is ugly and bitter. They loved saying this about Dr. Dawn Hughes as well.

-He was literally known in the 90’s for being a violent troublemaker, he was arrested multiple times for trashing hotel rooms, assaulting security guards, and threatening paparazzi. You can look up his arrest history pretty easily

-like a month after the Depp/Heard trial he had to appear in court again for assaulting a crew member on the set of City of Lies during filming. Ppl claimed he was defending a homeless woman or something but it was literally a closed set. Also easy to look this up just google ‘depp city of lies lawsuit’

-Lola Glaudini recalls a time when she was in the movie Blow (2001) where Depp came up to her and started yelling in her face, she specifically said that the things Amber Heard claimed he would yell to her were practically identical to what he yelled at Glaudini

If I can be candid for a moment though, if you’re gonna try and convince anyone who still supports Depp at this point that they’re in the wrong, good fucking luck. I made a post a while ago kind of pointing out/mocking how delusional their reasoning is and well, you can check the replies and reblogs to see how receptive they were to it. I’m not saying it isn’t worth it to try but most of them are so stuck in their own cognitive dissonance that they’re not going to want to listen to anything that threatens their perception of events. That being said you have an advantage over me of having understood their perspective until recently— and that’s not me trying to be snarky, it’s a valuable asset that I hope leads you to have more success than I’ve had in changing people’s minds.

[vilevexedvixen]

You know how guys are typically diagnosed autistic sooner than girls? So much harmful behaviour (and outright bullying and abuse) got dismissed through a mix of "boys will be boys" and "they can't help it / don't know what they're doing" as if holding a child to account for repeatedly throwing shit at girls specifically was somehow ableist.

There is a limit to how much bad behaviour is excusable under the guise of it being "because they're autistic". Especially AS an autistic woman! These young autistic boys ALWAYS got the benefit of the doubt, but if I fought back or melted down from bullying or overstimulation I was NEVER given that same benefit of the doubt despite a. Also being autistic, b. My actions having an obvious negative stimulus out of my control (unless I just refused to attend school, which eventually became a monthly routine to deal with it all) and c. Never actually doing harm (crocodile tears and bruised egos don't fucking count as "harm". Bro finally got held to account, that's not harm that's fair). It was effectively reactive abuse within the school system, facilitated by misguided, naïve and frankly misinformed (and perhaps a little sexist) teachers and TAs that doted on these mysogynistic brats. No fucking wonder gen Z has an issue with an increased rate of mysoginistic violence. The behaviour was RIGHT IN FRONT of my fucking teachers and they didn't do shit! They just coo'ed in the corner like:

Anywho, needed that off my chest.

I didn't start to actually heal until I changed school to one where my bullies and people like them got actually punished. Nothing like hearing a brat burst into tears when they're nearly a fucking adult after a teacher tells them "No".

Or, better yet because it actually involved stepping in and really protecting students / children, grabbing the brat being physically violent (because it amuses them to cause others' distress) and pulling them away so they are forced to stop. Those teachers actually fucking cared about me, stood up for me and supported my needs (I also needed help academically but my previous school never bothered because they only cared if the boys were struggling).

I don't hate men or boys, they do deserve help and support. Let me repeat, they need HELP and SUPPORT - NOT enabling!

Edit; This perfectly describes what I'm trying to vent about:

[lindentea]

Everyone you ever knew who told you that they would keep you safe-- if you behaved-- was already hurting you. - Brennan Lee Mulligan, from Dimension 20: Neverafter

another Neverafter quote that hit HARD for me. i had to rewind several times. it was so extremely affirming to hear this right as i was escaping my abuser. he had full control of me, gaslit me into believing i needed him for everything. he had me convinced that i was completely inept and unable to do basic tasks without him.

i was constantly under surveillance... literally. he installed security cameras in the house and a Ring doorbell that he set up with facial recognition, and it sent him push alerts whenever anyone approached the door. he installed a security system that was always armed, with unique PIN codes for each of us, also with push alerts on, so he knew every time i left and returned to the house. he made me constantly share my location with him on my phone, smart watch, and Apple AirTag on my keys (he was so pissed when i stopped sharing it after he kicked me out of the house). he engaged in reactive abuse/DARVO all the time, shifting the goalposts and turning the tables, accusing me of being the true abuser. he actually had me convinced i was a horrible person. he left me completely dysregulated . he'd set it up so that there was no way for me to win.

but guess what? once i got away from him, time passed and i was surrounded by my support network, i realized just how tight of a leash i'd been on for those nine and a half years of my life, and all that "bad" behavior that he provoked and accused me of stopped. i'm lucky i fucking survived. literally.

[nothing0fnothing]

I am usually a huge supporter of women who have suffered abuse at the hands of men. But this girl I knew(and cut ties with) was very abusive to her bf. She would lock him in rooms, hide his keys so he couldn’t leave when she wanted to fight with him…she would go through his phone and impersonate him to get people she wanted away from him to think he hated them. She once claimed that her upstairs neighbors sexually harassed her bc they called her a fat ass and called the cops on them. She ripped up all the flowers and shrubs in his garden. She would scream at all their friends to get out of her house when she wanted to fight with him. This girl claims that this was all “reactive abuse”. When I called her out on it she said she hope my little girls were abused. I personally don’t think any action that is thought out is “reactive abuse”. The things she did to him were thought out. I myself was in an extremely abusive relationship in my late teens to early 20s. I would never wish harm on anyone else in a million years. Let alone children. I just want confirmation that I am not crazy. I feel bad not supporting other women. But she story has so many holes and so much evidence to the contrary. Pretty sure she is the abuser. Pretty sure she is a narcissist. Also since I called her out on it she has been stalking me online daily. I quit TikTok bc she made over 165 videos all about me. What do you think? Honest opinion? I’m here for any insights

I don't think you are crazy and I think you should trust your gut with this woman. If you are seeing a pattern of abusive behaviour with her I think your priorities should be first and foremost your own saftey, and secondly being supportive to the guy she's abusing.

I do agree with you that none of what she is exhibiting seems to be reactive abuse. When I was in my first domestic violence relationship I experienced reactive abuse. For example, he used to call me to fight because if I were locked in a phone call with him, I wasn't able to socialise or get anything else done. When I realised I didn't have to answer the phone to put up with him, he started to call me over and over again, in quick sucession. While he was doing this he basically rendered my phone useless. I couldn't turn it off or even mute the ringer, because as soon as I tried a new call would come through. And he wouldn't just call 5 or 6 times, I remember checking my phone after eating dinner with my flat mates and seeing 577 missed calls. He had been calling and instantly redialing consistently for 45 minutes. He had found a way to essentially lock me out of my phone whenever he felt like it, he started doing it more and more frequently. One day, he's doing that, and I needed to use my phone to do some coursework. And I just wanted to cry because I knew my choice was to sit on the phone with him for two hours or wait an hour for him to get bored of redialing me before I could get what I needed to get done, done. So I started answering, saying the most hateful, vitriolic, heinous shit I could imagine, and hanging up. "I hate you." *click* *incoming call* "I'm breaking up with you" *click* *incoming call* "I hope you die" *click* *incoming call* "I hope your dog dies". *click* *incoming call*. And on and on it went until I fell spart and just shut my phone in a box in my wardrobe and listened to it ring till the battery died. I cannot excuse what I said it in any way, and I've never behaved that way since. I'm not am abusive person. I was just pushed to the brink by one.

I bring this up because that was a personal example of reactive abuse. I felt cornered by him and I thought the best way to stop his unhinged behaviour was to match energy. But that wasn't the way. Actually all I did there was feed his ego and give him exactly what he wanted.

I'm really struggling to square my experience to the examples you gave me, like hiding keys so her abuser couldn't leave the home. I know my experience isn't everyone's experience, but I don't really understand that behaviour as a reaction to abuse. Why would she want her abuser trapped in the house with her?

Sometimes reactive abuse can look from the outside like abuse, but like you said, it's not usually premeditated. Behaviour like going through her partners phone to find all of their contacts so she can turn them against him one by one. That just sounds like abuse to me. I'm not sure how or why a person would do that as a response to abuse. And considering her "reactive abuse" looks a lot like the behaviour of abusers, like the isolation from his loved ones and the destruction of his garden I'm assuming he put a lot of care and effort into, I'm definitely leaning to agreeing with you that she is probably not the victim in this particular scenario.

I'd suggest blocking and ignoring her completely. Like my ex using incessant phone calls to lock up my phone, eventually with no reaction from you, she will get bored and stop. Don't make the same mistake as I did, and give her what she wants by telling her what for. Otherwise she'll know that by making 165 tiktoks she can get a rise out of you, and you'll have to put up with it far longer.

Consider legal action if that's possible, but otherwise make sure you stay safe. She seems like a particularly nasty person and it seems like interacting with her is not going to end well for you.

[whisky-tango-foxtrot-biteme]

Reactive abuse

Did you ever feel as if your abuser were baiting you? Perhaps gaslighting you? An argument designed to attack you emotionally or psychologically that you cannot win?

You are much more at risk in these situations for perpetrating reactive abuse.

Reactive abuse is a tactic used by abusers to shift blame in a justifiable away from themselves and onto you. It's pure manipulation. It is done to convince others they are a victim.

Your abuser will weaponize your valid anger or frustration in order to make you the crazy person or the abuser. Let's say you caught your husband cheating after several times prior, he says he gave up the affair and apologized. He then blames you for the affair because "you will not forgive him" (because you know, it's only been a few weeks or months and you still have to process all that deception and pain). You argue with you husband and you bitch slap him. That is reactive abuse. (And yes, cheating is emotional abuse unless you are in a non-monogamous relationship and you all agree on the boundaries of your relationships.)

In situations like this, your abuser can now cry how crazy you are or what you do to him, or what a liar you are to claim they abuse you. Your husband will loudly let everyone know exactly how you should be portrayed: they ugly, loud, jealous, lying bitch.

Reactive abuse usually has these elements: 1) You are provoked--insulted, gaslighted, lied to, or baited into an argument. 2) You react from a position of anger or frustration and do something you normally would not do--hurt back in some way such as slap, kick, insult. 3) Has proof of your abuse and uses it for blackmailing or smear campaign: Your abuser will now have evidence to start a credible smear campaign or use this evidence to blackmail you. (Twitter post that says "Hey wanna see a really crazy woman?" Then posts your picture. Or goes home to his family and says "See this bruise. My wife is physically abusive.")

This will effectively isolate you from support because those in your circle may not find your claims against your abuser credible. The cycle can continue indefinitely if you allow it.

When your relationship has reached the point of reactive abuse, WALK AWAY. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. You are beyond the point of grey rocking this idiot. The abuser has crossed one too many boundaries. Find ways to keep your mental health intact--get a therapist, find a trusted family member or friend, find ways to bolster your self-esteem and stop any negative self-talk. Reactive abuse is often your abuser's goal: he can discard you and not face the consequence of his treatment of you. It removes accountability from him. It is manipulation, pure and simple.

Keep in mind that reactive abuse does not only happen in marriages or romantic relationships. It happens between family members and friends as well. Your choice here is your well-being and happiness or allowing someone to destroy you. Choose YOU.

[bendyaac]

Content Warning: symbol depicting a form of abuse below!

(Includes: witness, bystander, and reactive abuse symbols/emojis)

Witness

Bystander

Reactive Abuse

[Please read my Intro Post before interacting!]

[neurotypicalabusesurvivor]

BTW acting in a way you know is triggering towards someone is reactive abuse and no you are not the victim.

[unwelcome-ozian]

[healingwgabs]

Reactive Abuse and Medical gaslighting

pathologizing someone’s reaction to abuse is called reactive abuse… calling someone “crazy” or being labelled as having anger issues when the reality is that you're having appropriate expected normal reactions that make sense given the circumstance ... or getting misdiagnosed or being labelled w an externalizing style of BPD (petulant/impulsive) as a response to abuse (ie. narcissistic abuse) is one of many ways reactive abuse can manifest

Clinical discernment is so important in these cases, is it your environment thats creates these "symptoms" or is it pathology?? If a person is taken out of an environment (a toxic one), which ppl who are often diagnosed with BPD are from and currently still in, would they still be exhibiting these symptoms if placed in a healthier environment... its for these reasons thats transformative social justice is so important too.. the personal is always political. The stance that one's environment creates disability (in this case mental health pathology) can not only be applied to encourage critical thinking towards bpd diagnosis but to other mental health disabilities too like depression but to also advocate for necessary changes in broader society within policies n our government (broader safety nets) we also see this a lot with right-wing ppl calling ppl on the "left" unhinged for having justified appropriate reactions when those more vulnerable to them r being abused, disrespected, and having their rights and protections taken away