On the MegOP fandom trend of saying "Optimus should apologize to Megatron"
(Speaking specifically for IDW1, though it applies to a lot of MegOP especially ones that do continuity soup with heavy reference to IDW1)
I was talking to a friend in DMs and they mentioned a common headcanon/fanfic trope that I also concurred with, and both of us said it's something that bothers us: a common take in the MegOP fandom goes basically along the lines of "If Optimus had just apologized to Megatron, the war would've ended" (or other variants including "if he'd tried harder to understand Megatron/work in collaboration with him").
And firstly, this is incorrect for a number of reasons:
There were attempts at peace negotiations during the war, but they fell through. So Optimus WAS trying to work with Megatron to the point of participating in formal diplomatic meetings.
Optimus tried multiple times on page to convince Megatron to just stop fighting and work with him for peace (Autocracy, Chaos Theory) that Megatron rejected. Given that these on-page examples take place at the start of the war and at the end of the war respectively, it makes sense that Optimus asking Megatron for collaboration is something he was trying/willing to do the entire time. So again, Optimus was always willing AND ATTEMPTING to work with Megatron and find a joint solution
Even before the war when Optimus was still Orion, he was very explicitly inspired by Megatron's writing and names Megatron as one of the people who "opened his eyes" to the wrongs of Cybertronian society. So how is it that people claim "the war went on for too long because Optimus never tried to understand Megatron" when OP literally named Megatron as one of his biggest idols, thus implying that OP does understand Megatron's ideals
But the primary purpose of this post wasn't to defend Optimus, actually. Even though I personally think Optimus did plenty (dare I say, everything) to try to end the war, there are some who may still think otherwise, so instead of arguing about whether Optimus did "enough", or who should apologize to whom, or who "deserves the blame" for starting/continuing the war, I'd actually rather talk about this:
No matter who is most "to blame" for the war, it's my firm belief that neither Megatron nor Optimus would even expect/demand the other to apologize to them at all.
On Megatron's side, he would never seek to judge Optimus negatively for the decisions to the point of saying "you wronged me, apologize." Whether it's evil Megatron who doesn't care about atrocities and revels in an opportunity to expose Optimus as a hypocrite, or post-war/Autobot Megatron who knows that his own evil actions are irredeemable, the idea of Megatron judging Optimus and demanding an apology for the war specifically strikes me as out-of-character. Why would Megatron demand or even want an apology from Optimus when Megatron knows fully well that he has his own sins to bear, he prolonged the war for his own selfish/material gain, and that he is responsible for an untold amount of suffering? Demanding an apology would imply that Megatron sees himself as the wronged party and Optimus as the wrongdoer, but by the end of the war, Megatron is too aware of his own part in the war to ever demand such a thing of Optimus. Even if he DID think that Optimus was "equally to blame" for the war (which he doesn't/wouldn't, btw), Megatron's own feelings of guilt would prevent him from trying to seek the petty satisfaction of the moral high ground or making Optimus beg for his forgiveness.
Additionally, Megatron knows Optimus very well as a person: he knows that the position of leadership is full of "loneliness [and] agonizing self-doubt" for Optimus (Chaos Theory) and that "when Optimus hurts others, he hurts himself" (MTMTE). Another reason that Megatron wouldn't demand nor want an apology from Optimus is because Megatron knows Optimus so well that he already knows that being a war leader fills Optimus with immense guilt and suffering. Given that Megatron knows about Optimus' self-doubt and guilt, why would he even need an apology when he already knows how much Optimus regrets the war and desperately wishes/wished for it to end?
Then, as established in the previous paragraphs, Optimus is too full of guilt for his part in the war (both before it started and in being unable to stop it sooner) to demand an apology from Megatron. Again, demanding an apology would put Optimus in an implied position of moral superiority and/or victimhood, but Optimus doesn't see himself as morally superior or as a victim (or rather, he sees himself as being responsible for these bad things happening and internalizes this as a duty to do better/fix wrongdoings). In other words, Megatron and Optimus both share this view of themselves and each other: Their hands are so dirty, and they both feel such guilt over this, and they know each other well enough to know that the other feels this way as well. Because both of them feel blame for the war and are acutely aware of their own flaws/part in suffering, both of them feel far too responsible for the war happening for them to ever blame their archnemesis for "not trying harder" or "being responsible for the war."
Hell, if you even look at the socio-political climate of Cybertron before the war started, neither Megatron nor Optimus were the ones who put this conflict into motion. The corrupt legacy of the Primes, Functionism, class issues-- all of these things existed before Megatron and Optimus did. Even once they started doing things like writing about social issues (M) or fighting against the Senate (OP), both of them were "underlings" in sense that they weren't leaders:
Megatron's writings may have inspired the Decepticon movement, but that movement existed as an independent entity with its own leaders and speakers long before Megatron became the "official" ruler of the Decepticons. He wasn't even the leader of the 'Cons until he took control of the gladiator arena and the nonviolent sections of the Decepticons were (presumably) subsumed into the underground, exploitative battle culture that Megatron created.
Optimus-as-Orion was a police officer to start, but even once he started going against the Senate, he mainly worked in collaboration with others like Senator Shockwave and Zeta (later Zeta Prime), who he either saw as his idols or who were literally superior to him in rank due to government/military structures.
So with this in mind, even from a social level, while Megatron and Optimus may have been "catalysts" of a sort that caused the war to escalate to an outright planetary/galactic level, the scenario is too complex to solely lay the blame for the war at either of their feet. I'm not confident in saying that Megatron/Optimus would explicitly think of this when talking to each other, but what I'm trying to say is that M/OP were just catalysts in a long chain of brewing tension that exploded into a war. Even if one could claim that one of them "started" or "escalated" the war, the social issues that caused the war and the positions of power that allowed them to become leaders in the first place were falling into place before either of them actually BECAME leaders.
In other words, this shared fate of being the final reaction that exploded a societal conflict into outright war... Megatron and Optimus both have that in common. And because of this, I really don't think either of them would even think to ask the other to apologize because they're both in such similar positions, with such similar feelings of guilt and responsibility, that they understand each other's feelings without words. To demand an apology would be akin to taking that shared vulnerability/guilt and stepping on it, attempting to claim that one is right/superior and the other is wrong/inferior, and that the inferior one needs to grovel and take responsibility for the bad things that happened.
47 notes
·
View notes
Orion do you have tips on how to write Venti 🙏 I'd be ever so grateful to learn
[Warning: Profanity ahead...and a really long read]
Hii, you're in for a long ramble LOL
So, first things first, I'm probably not the best Venti writer out there. No, not even probably, I'm not. I try to write as closely as possible to canon however I know that's difficult as my own headcanons and perception of Venti will show themselves in my writing. And I genuinely think that there are absolutely better Venti writer's out there to ask.
(you can skip to around "Honestly this is..." to skip a whole lot of my rambling because genuinely instead of giving tips I just rambled. No matter how I try to think of it, you'll end up with the entire ramble no matter what :skull:)
Venti is a complex character, like genuinely a very complex character. People like dumbing him down to this silly little guy that's a drunkard and I get real annoyed when that's all people see him as. Venti is much more than the "carefree persona" he puts on. There's so much depth to his character.
Another thing to take note of, when I write for Venti, I'm usually writing him for comfort as he's a comfort character of mine. Most of my works are more focused on the reader than Venti, but the very few times I've written solely for Venti, I wrote angst with him. And there I honestly just went into the zone so how I write him is beyond me.
If I'd have to give tips on how to write him, it would be to make him more than just some silly little guy that's there for comedic relief. If you think about it Venti is the most mysterious archon we've met so far. He speaks in riddles when he knows he can't give an outright answer because that defeats the whole point of figuring it all out on your own.
He's a mischievous character. From hiding the broken Holy Lyre of der Himmel that he immediately made a break for after saying his little trick won't last forever to forging Morax's signature back when the aristocracy rules Mondstadt in order to help free Mondstadt once more. Another thing people tend to forget in the fandom is that Venti is actually really intelligent, which again isn't recognized under his "he's just a silly little guy" thing the fandom has going on for him.
Okay, I'm getting off track, this is more turning into me ranting about the fandom and being way to passionate about him :skull:
How I try to write him is to show depth to his character. I learn something new about his character every day. Like genuinely. If it wasn't for the venti nation over on twitter who are just as passionate about him as I am, I wouldn't have known half the shit I do now.
I think reading his character story and the Mondstadt lore (like the skyward weapons lore) really helped me find some depth into his character as not only the infamous bard of Mondstadt but also the god of Freedom and Hope. Maybe looking at the actual demon Barbatos would give some ideas on him as well.
Writing him is honestly a hassle, because you need to know when he'd make a riddle or a rhyme off the top of his head and when he'd talk to you like a normal person. Even in his voicelines, as far as I can remember, he doesn't rhyme often. Which made me realize that Kazuha really does talk by spitting out flowers from his mouth because I swear it's easier to write for Venti than for Kazuha who speaks in flowers :sob:
Another thing that helped me understand him a little better is simply looking up his fandom wiki page and seeing how they describe him. The first time I saw what stood there, I was like, "oh...that actually makes sense." (in reference to him hiding a lonely soul specifcally.)
When I do write him, I try to still keep his characteristic traits like being mischievous, carefree, wise, and lonely. Like I can absolutely imagine him stealing some apples from Dawn Winery and to be cheeky, he'd even sit atop the winery eating at the apples. But I keep in mind how he'd sometimes just sit alone and think. Like in his story quest, where at the end he sits on the hands of the Barbatos statue after telling us the story of the nameless bard and how he became the god of freedom. How he grieves for a friend/the friends he had lost. You can't tell me that by the end of his story quest you didn't feel the loneliness that basically oozes off of him.
I try to creep in that old timer feeling too because let's be real, he's a god, he's over thousands of years old, he has experience, ya get me? He'd have that hint of old soul vibes. And also let's not forget webtoon Venti where he was loud and proud about his songs (or rhymes or whatever was exactly said there) being twice as good as that of Barbatos himself (ironic because he literally is Barbatos). Like he is proud of being the best bard in Mondstadt.
ALSO Venti is super observant, like I will die on this fucking hill. He would know when something's up.
A big thing that I want to incorporate into my writing if I write him and it needs this, is that it will always feel like he's hiding something from you. Because it was recently brought to my attention that he doesn't always tell the truth or he talks in such a roundabout way that it diverts your attention to something else.
That and the fact that he is literally trying to hide just how powerful he truly is. He doesn't like drawing attention to himself, especially if it outs his true identity. Fucking "the weakest archon of the Seven" my ass. Like did you know that before people use a glider that they literally need to say a prayer to Barbatos to allow them to glide? I didn't either until a recent read up on a hyperfocus on Mondstadt fashion and someone on reddit said that people offer prayers to Barbatos every time they glide. If his power as an archon is based on how many people believe in him, than fuck bro you're straight up lying if the entirety of Teyvat is literally praying every time they use a glider. Like my dude is literally such a liar just to conceal his tracks and diverts attention away from himself.
Also whether or not that reddit user is correct on the prayer thing, I have no clue. I might be AR 59 but I am so behind on actual quests and shit that I just don't know, so how credible or true that is, I'm not sure. You can only trust any of my words when it comes to the archon quest lore :skull:
Honestly this is just turning into a ramble of a lifetime. I apologize sefhfef Overall, I'm not exactly sure how I write Venti or if I write him correctly. When I write there is (sometimes) no thoughts behind my eyes, just aggressive typing while I listen to music and I just pray that I write him accurately. Venti is such a complex character that it's hard to simply just...give tips because there's so much about his character that I could talk about.
I know for a fact that I try to convey not only his playful demeanor, but also his serious and caring nature. Like please, he isn't always cheerful or playful and he knows when to be serious and take things seriously.
And I try to incorporate that old timer feeling he would absolutely have because he is literally thousands of years old. (Adding this here as well for in case you did skip the whole ramble)
I can ramble about his character for days, probably, and I'd still never get to how I write him.
What I can say is to just listen to his voicelines, read his character story and go off memory of how you perceive him and know of him. Listen to other characters voicelines about him. Get to know him in a sense through those.
If you're unsure of whether you're writing him as accurately as possible (or simply just right), ask a Venti simp/fan to beta read for you. That's what I'm doing with my Eula series, I asked a friend if she could help me write Eula more accurately and she referred me to another friend of hers that loves Eula and that friend agreed to helping me in understanding Eula as not only a character but to also portray her as accurately as possible.
If you have no excessive Venti simps to turn to *tucks hair behind ear* Hit me up and I'll happily help you out by once again rambling about him <3
18 notes
·
View notes