#4 celestial primates

[ghostly-creator]

TWO CELESTIAL PRIMATES COMING UUUUP!

Inspo for it comes from this:

Does this mean I'm gonna be naming Liu'er Mihou "Sun Xinghe"? ... Maybe probably idk. Cause giving them name would feel NICE. So who knows?

ANYWAY I'M GOING BACK TO DOING ARTFIGHT STUFF CAUSE I GOTTA MAKE DEFENSES.

[mori-lazuli]

Quick sketches of the four mystic monkeys in jttw!!✨

[noodlecatt467]

I’ve been getting REALLY into Lego Monkie kid and I absolutely love this show.

It eventually got me into journey to the west and Turns out there are four celestial monkeys and two of them are never explored .SO I wanted to make an AU of where MK and the crew we meet the last two, the long armed gibbon and the red rear horse face monkey(the baboon) .

Are they friends ? foes? do they know about MK?macaque?or Wukong?We’ll see

Wukong-Sun

Macaque-moon

Gibbon-Stars

Baboon-Earth

[looney-mooney]

Lego Monkie Kid MK theory

Spoilers for season 4 and the season 4 special under the cut!

So we can all agree that MK is a Celestial Primate, right? We're all on the same page about that? Okay, good. Now that we've established that, let's get into the interesting question there.

Which one is he?

From what I've seen, most people in the fandom seem to agree that he's a new celestial primate, someone who's sort of a class of his own. But this is Lego Monkie Kid, and we all know how much this show absolutely ADORES reusing characters and concepts from the original Journey to the West at pretty much every opportunity.

I'm going to be using this article I found for most of this, but it's pretty much all from the book: https://journeytothewestresearch.com/2022/02/20/a-quick-study-of-the-four-celestial-monkeys-from-journey-to-the-west/

In Journey to the West, there are four celestial primates, two of whom are prominent characters in the narrative and two of whom are presumed dead before we get the chance to meet them.

Sun Wukong is the "Stone Monkey of Numinous Wisdom" (or Numinous Luminosity, depending on which translator you ask), who "knows transformations, Recognizes the seasons, Discerns the advantages of earth, And is able to alter the course of planets and stars." Macaque is... well... "The Six-Eared Macaque," who "has a sensitive ear, Discernment of fundamental principles, Knowledge of past and future, And comprehension of all things." We already know who these two are, so I'm not gonna get more into them.

The other two Celestial Primates are characters we've never met before, in the book OR the show. The Connected Arms Gibbon, who can "Seize the sun and the moon, Shorten a thousand mountains, Distinguish the auspicious from the inauspicious, And manipulate planets and stars," and the Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey, who has "knowledge of yin and yang, Understands human affairs, Is adept in its daily life And able to avoid death and lengthen its life." MK is probably a reincarnation of one of these two (if not some sort of bizarre combination of both?)

There's a case to be made for either of these roles. I don't think he's the Gibbon though, since MK's monkey form clearly has a tail (three of them, even, in his war form!) and Gibbons, as great apes, don't tend to have those. It'd be cool to meet the Connected Arms Gibbon, though!

Instead, I would like to make the case for MK being the Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey. There's a lot of debate over what species of monkey that's even meant to represent, so MK would be free to be a sort of... amalgamation monkey. The IDEA of a monkey, instead of any specific species, like Sun Wukong himself seems to be. (Plus, he usually wears red pants, so that covers the "red-buttocked" part of the character description lol)

Not to mention, that "understands human affairs" bit REALLY fits, since he's spent his whole entire LIFE living as a human! Not to mention, one of the very FIRST powers MK struggled with was invulnerability, something that was so powerful it had to be taken away from him (and something even Sun Wukong himself doesn't appear to fully have - he's immortal times a kajillion, but that doesn't mean he can't get beat up!) In a genre that has a lot of "invulnerable protagonist" as a basic element of the storytelling, that's a pretty clever way to hammer home that "avoids death" is an actual POWER of his pretty immediately

Plus, who's MK's BFF FOREVER? That's right, Mei the Dragon Horse girl. Who better to be the Horse Monkey's bestie?

But I wanna know what you guys think! Do you think MK is the Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey? The Connected Arms Gibbon? Or some completely new Celestial Monkey the showrunners made up specifically for the protagonist of their show? LMK!

[a-tea-goblin]

about the Monkeys being monkeys

this is a super nitpicky thing but bare with me, but please remember that not all primates are the same. Monkeys and apes are not the same thing. they are in fact both primates, but they are still different animals and aren't interchangeable

rule of thumb; Monkeys have tails, apes don't.

Monkey King/Macaque/MK are macaques, different species of monkeys. The correct terminology for them are monkey, simian, or even primate if you want to be broad.

apes/chimps would be like orangutans or chimpanzees.

this is why in the jttw the four spiritual/celestial primates are grouped together as primates and not as either monkeys or apes definitively, because 3/4 of them are monkeys (stone monkey/macaque/baboon) and 1/4 is an ape (gibbon), meaning that both are present so a broader term is needed when referring to the four as a whole.

this is mainly something I noticed when reading LMK fanfics, where authors will sometimes call the MK/SWK/6EM chimps or apes as descriptors. I can understand having other characters calling them by the wrong species if its out of ignorance or even as a direct insult, but it should also be acknowledged that if a character does this then said character is factually incorrect.

part of the confusion in authors may have come from the fact that some characters in LMK have called them the wrong thing, an example off the top of my head is Huntsman calling MK a chimp in 02x03. this might have been a mistake on the writers part, but it also may have been a way of showing that Huntsman doesn't know the difference.

[dorothygale123]

I'd say I'm becoming a nerd, but that ship sailed a long time ago. I guess I'm just expanding my nerdiness to other areas.

Anyway, MORE MYTHOLOGY!

So in Journey to the West, the Buddha explains that there are 4 'spiritual primates' that don't fit into any categories for immortals or types of creatures. Fans of Lego Monkie Kid are likely familiar with 2, the Stone Monkey Sun Wukong and the Six Eared Macaque. The other 2, the Long-armed Gibbon and the Red-Buttocked Baboon are a lot more obscure. They only get a brief mention in JttW because the focus of the chapter they appear in is Macaque, but the idea of a set of super powerful Immortal monkeys is just too fun to pass up, you know? So I've been thunking my thinker.

What if each primate was associated with a different realm (mortal, heavenly, lunar, and underworld) and element? I know the 4 elements (earth, water, wind, fire) are a western idea rooted in alchemy and eastern mythology has 5 elements (earth, water, fire, metal, wood), but there aren't 5 monkeys and this is just a thought experiment and not me trying to force western ideas onto eastern culture.

Got it? Good.

Now, Sun Wukong is very solidly earth because he's, you know, a rock. No surprise there. He was also born in the mortal realm and spent most of his life there, so we'll call him the celestial primate of the mortal realm while we're at it.

The Six-Eared Macaque is another easy one. A lot of LMK fannon associates him with wind, inferring that his heightened hearing has something to do with wind magic. He's also very closely tied to the moon because of the line in "Shadow Play" where he directly compares the Warrior (himself) to the moon. So Macaque is the celestial primate of wind and the Lunar realm.

Now here's where we get a bit more speculative and start using information creatively. There are 2 monkeys, realms, and elements left I want to use, so let's start with the monkeys so everyone has a baseline understanding.

The Long Armed Gibbon (Gibs, from now on) is described as being able to "seize the sun and moon, shorten a thousand mountains, distinguish auspicious from inauspicious, and manipulate planets and stars."

The Red Buttocked Baboon (Babs for short) has "knowledge of yin and yang, understands human affairs, is adept I'd daily life and can avoid death and lengthen its life."

Starting with the realms because they seem easiest to assign, I would give Gibs the Heavenly realm because of its ability to move around celestial objects like the sun, moon, planets, and stars. This leaves the Underworld to Babs, which I think fits nicely because their "knowledge of yin and yang" and "understand[ing] of human affairs" would make them a good assistant to the 10 Kings of the Underworld.

Next comes the 2 remaining elements, water and fire, which are a bit tricky because it could go both ways.

Gibs could be fire because the sun and stars are giant balls of burning plasma, but also water because the sky/heavens are often associated with an ocean or other bodies of water in several different mythologies. For example, in Egyptian mythology, Ra sailed his boat through the sky every day, while in early Abrahamic belief the sky was a huge dome with water on the other side, and rain happened when floodgates were opened to let the water through. In Chinese myth specifically, the Milky Way is often depicted as a river that is sailed through by various deities.

Babs could fit with fire as well because underworlds and hell-adjacent places are often shown to have fires to torment and punish the sinful dead, no surprise there. But there is surprisingly a lot of water symbolism in the realm of the dead as well. For example, some people may be familiar with the Japanese idea of the Sanzu River, very similar in concept to the Greek River Styx, as well as the Chinese Huang Quan/Yellow springs.

Personally I would pair Babs with fire because he has red in his name, making him the celestial primate of fire and the Underworld.

That leaves Gibs to be the celestial primate of water and the Heavenly realm.

I feel pretty good about this, but if anyone else has other ideas I'd love to hear them.

Sh*tpost Masterlist

[uselesstaroth]

Raditz from Dragon Ball:

Shows up out of nowhere

Comes with the reveal that Goku is an alien

There are only 4 of them left

Gets killed soon after being revealed

Never mentioned again

Six Eared Macaque from Journey to the West:

Shows up out of nowhere

Comes with the reveal that Wukong is a Celestial Primate

There are only 4 of them

Gets killed soon after being revealed

Never mentioned again (as well as the other 2)

What a thing

[journeytothewestresearch]

One question is if the six-eared macaque is a negative aspect of Sun Wukong's personality, that means that the other two mystical monkeys are also aspects of the personality except that unlike the Macaque, they are both positive aspects or simply part of Sun's personality. and the reason why they do not appear directly or are agonistic in jttw is because they do not go against the path of Buddhist enlightenment

Sorry if you don't understand, I don't speak English and I'm using a translator.

I've also speculated that the other two cestial primates are aspects of Sun Wukong's mind. An update to my Six Ears article reads:

I'm not really sure why the other two don't explicitly appear in the narrative. But I do know that, including Sun Wukong, the four celestial primates mirror the four kinds of monkeys and apes living on Flower-Fruit Mountain. As I write here, chapter one reads:

The Handsome Monkey King thus led a flock of gibbons [yuanhou, 猿猴], macaques [mihou, 獼猴], and horse-monkeys [mahou, 馬猴], some of whom were appointed by him as his officers and ministers (based on Wu & Yu, 2012, vol. 1, p. 106). 美猴王領一群猿猴、獼猴、馬猴等，分派了君臣佐使。

The gibbons are also called "long-armed gibbons" (tongbei yuanhou, 通背猿猴; lit: "(arms)-through-the-back gibbons"). [1] (This refers to the belief that the long, agile arms of the gibbon were somehow connected (i.e. tongbi, 通臂), passing through the back (i.e. tongbei, 通背) (Gulik, 1967, p. 92-93).) The horse-monkeys are also called "red-buttocked horse-monkeys" (chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴). [2] These terms are important to remember.

Here is the list of the four celestial primates:

Stone-Monkey of Numinous Wisdom (Lingming shihou, 靈明石猴) - i.e. Sun Wukong

Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkey (Chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴) - The exact same kind as that mentioned above.

Long-Armed Gibbon (Tongbi yuanhou, 通臂猿猴; lit: "Connected Arms Gibbon") - As mentioned above, tongbi (通臂) and tongbei (通背) refer to the ape's long arms.

Six-Eared Macaque (Liu'er mihou, 六耳獼猴)

The apes and monkeys of Flower-Fruit Mountain and the Four Celestial Primates both include Sun Wukong (i.e. the Stone Monkey), Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkeys (Chikao mahou), Long-Armed Gibbons (Tongbei and Tongbi), and Macaques (mihou), one of which has Six Ears (Liu'er). Therefore, the two groups are practically the same.

Based on this, a person might suggest that if one celestial primate (Sun Wukong) is born on Flower-Fruit mountain, then others can be, too. This opens the door to all four of the celestial primates having been born (or at least manifesting) there. And since Six-Ears is an aspect of Monkey's mind, the missing two celestial apes could be as well.

I should note that Wukong's Four Might Commanders are two long-armed (tongbei) gibbons and two red-buttocked horse-monkeys. Someone could suggest that two of them make up the missing celestial primates. But they are never shown to have great powers, just knowledge about the world outside of Flower-Fruit Mountain.

In the end, though, the missing celestial primates may not appear simply because they are not important to the overall narrative.

Notes:

1) Yu (Wu & Yu, 2012) incorrectly translates tongbei yuanhou (通背猿猴) as "bare back monkey" (vol. 1, p. 131).

2) Yu (Wu & Yu, 2012) incorrectly translates this as "baboon" (vol. 1, p. 106). The horse-monkey was a nickname for the macaques placed in horse stables to keep away sickness (refer to here).

Sources:

Gulik, R. H. (1967). The Gibbon in China: An Essay in Chinese Animal Lore. Leiden: E.J. Brill.

Wu, C., & Yu, A. C. (2012). The Journey to the West (Vols. 1-4) (Rev. ed.). Chicago, Illinois: University of Chicago Press.

[nightmare-grass]

Lego Monkie Kid Season 5 Speculation:

In Journey to the West, there’s 4 celestial primates, one of which is the intelligent stone monkey, aka Sun Wukong, and another of which is the six eared Macaque. In Season 4 we get teased about MK’s origin story and why he’s the one able to pick up Monkey King’s staff and inherit his powers. It seems like either Sun Wukong or some other entity was messing with magic and created a new incarnation of the intelligent stone monkey, since MK was birthed from a rock just like Wukong was. MK is secretly a monkey in the guise of a human, and for most of his life even he had no idea because he blocked out those memories. I wonder if season 5 will deal with the long armed Gibbon and the red-cheeked Baboon, as well as revealing more of Wukong and Macaque’s past and MK’s origins and true powers?

[lilacartsmadsion]

Spoilers for Lego Monkie kid Season 4

So since Wukong isn’t his dad, let me propose you another theory.

So…in TikTok there’s a theory going around BEFORE this reveal. And that’s the Zodiac Monkey MK theory…

Now not much proof was there other than one scene in Revenge of the Spider Queen and MK’s abilities to lift the staff.

With this it could make MK one of two things:

One: the Zodiac Monkey MK theory

MK is the Zodiac Monkey either reincarnated or newly created to replace the Zodiac Monkey

Edit: I just found out that the turtle ain’t one of the Zodiac signs, so Idk why there’s a turtle there, ignore the turtle I pointed out.

Or MK is a new or one of the Four Primates.

MK is a primate that has control over destiny itself, seeing as though the Zodiacs are seen representing ‘time’ in this world. (I-I can’t find the screenshot) but the Zodiacs themselves seem to only show in the Oracle Bone Scripture and this

These are the Oracle Bone Symbols of the Chinese Zodiacs, there’s another theory for MK that he’s able to change destiny depending on his choice. So what if as a primate, that’s his role, changing fate?

Although the Oracle Bone Scripture could just connect him more to the Zodiacs, I find that less likely unless there’s actually proof. I just used it as an example that it symbolized and tells ‘time’ for the Celestials.

He could still be a Stone Monkey, but what if he’s more than just ‘A Stone Monkey’

[mori-lazuli]

Here’s my concept sketches of the Red Horse Baboon, one of the four mystic monkeys mentioned in jttw (lmk design)

[makiruz]

Okay so in Journey to the West they mention 4 Celestial Monkeys: the Stone Monkey, that's Sun Wukong, the Six Eared Macaque, you know him; and there's 2 more: the Red Bottomed Horse Monkey and the Long Armed Ape Monkey.

So it suddenly hit me; Lego Monkie Kid revealed in season 4 that MK is also a mystic monkey, which makes 3 celestial monkeys in LMK canon, is the show bringing this element from the story? Are we getting a fourth monkey in the future?

Also, reference material:

[starsfic]

I have a theory mk is one of the four celestial monkeys my reasoning 1 he has wu kongs powers and we know he can use them without the staff the only one that we know have the same powers in both book and show is macaque 2 in season 4 we see him born from a stone but it is stated that he is different from wu kongs stone 3 only four celestial monkeys exist but we only seen two in both show and book could it be one or two of those monkeys don't exist yet 4 the two missing monkeys are said to understand Ying and yang and have the power two move celestial bodies ink mk says that Herold destroy the world and we know that mk has an understanding of his friends (albeit he has trouble sometimes and macaque and wu kong are stated to be very destructive) what do you think

Anon: Ya know. From a thematically/mythological Standpoint I guess it would make for the number of celestial primates to be fixed at four. Wukong, Macaque, MK, and whoever’s working with Azure.

It would be hilarious, however, if someone brought up the whole “four celestial primates who don’t fit into at category” thing and someone has to awkwardly raise their hand and be like “Actually the current number is six. That we know of.”

LMK Season 4 spoilers

I think it's the latter honestly? I know LMK takes a hard curve away from JttW but the four primates were mentioned to be alive within Macaque's chapter. Based on what we've seen, Qi Xiaotian is too young to be alive during the journey. It's possible that one of the other two primates are manipulating or its another primate who was created the same time as Xiaotian.

Plus it's just funny.

"What do you mean, that we know of?!"

"Do you know how hard it is to keep track of you guys?! Four of them are born, one we knew right off the bat, and we didn't know about that Macaque guy until he attacked! And suddenly two more just...pop into existence!"

[cloud-somersault]

it's 2AM and everyone's asleep - can i talk about how cool the whole "each time a celestial primate is born an anomaly happens" thing is??

because since it's so ambiguous in JTTW, it's fun to just play around with that, like other media has in the interpretations in the other 3 like.

i just think it's COOL because Wukong's eyes pierced the sky and alerted Heaven -- what other cool things could happen? and Macaque's was so.

Originally, it was going to be "And when you were born, the entire moon went dark." but that couldn't happen for a variety of reasons. The anomalies have to affect something, but it can't be lasting. It has to be something that gets the attention of the divine in a way that they immediately know "hey, something's going on."

and with MK's, it's sooo MUCH, that it drew the attention of everyone! Because, comparatively we have 1) a bright golden light, 2) a shadow falling over the moon, 3) all the stars flashing brighter for a few seconds, 4) an earthquake that shakes all the realms PLUS golden flowers blooming on the trees.

the fact that there's TWO parts is super important. I wanted that to be a showing of MK's power but also to show his nature as the celestial primate of balance. Because the trees bloomed gold in every realm to highlight his influence and duty, but the earthquake speaks to how powerful he is, how that power has to be carefully maintained or it could spiral out of control.

because I kind of just thought about the nature of the anomalies, too. Wukong's being that bright light and it piercing Heaven just makes me think of his title about being equal to Heaven, how he wanted to be recognized and respected and treated as a divine. that craving for attention.

Macaque's is subtle, a "blink and you miss it" type anomaly because it happened so fast, but it's noticeable in a way like "wait, what was that? the moonlight faded for a second" it's sneaky, it's not outright asking for attention...it's making itself known, but keeping to the night, stalking the shadows. and obvs. the moon itself being linked to the tides, Macaque being born from seafoam. It's neat!! just the symbolism that's associated with water -- wisdom, patience, restoration, guidance. it suits him so well.

Can't talk about the third one for Little Star too much, but the stars FLASHING brighter for a few seconds? all that burning gas just... getting HOTTER and more intense, lighting up the night sky??? attention grabbing for sure, but also intense. exciting, captivating, thinking, perhaps, that something wonderful is about to happen, but then it fades...

it's fun to think about it link them to their characters.

[madanythinglaboratory]

Sun Wukong (A Gubat Banwa Chief inspired by Journey to the West)

(Specifically this translation of the novel)

The living creatures of the Universe can be categorized in 2 categories, immortals and beasts. There are five kinds of immortal: heavenly, earthly, divine, human and demonic, and there are five kinds of beast: snail, scaly, furry, feathered and insect.

However, 4 beings, 混世四猴 (hunshi sihou, literally: “four monkeys of havoc”), also called the Four Celestial Primates, stand outside of these categories. Having seemingly sprouted from nothing, they all share a tremendous battle prowess, sharp intellect, and supernatural abilities. All these qualities make them feared by all in Heaven, Earth, and the Underworld but the Tathagata, Buddha himself.

The most famous one, Sun Wukong, the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, was one of the Tang Monk's disciples on his journey to the Great Thunder Monastery. During the journey westward, he fought countless perils in order to save his masters, defeating many demons through a combination of trickery, martial prowess, and teamwork with the Tang Monk's other disciples, Zhu Bajie, Sha Wujing, and Bai Long Ma.

Prowesses

HP: 5/6/7 per Kadungganan Speed: 5; Jump: 4 Bravery: 7/8/9 Faith: 1/2/3 Posture: 5/6/7 Resilience: 3/4/5

Traits

Discernment of Earthly Advantages. When Sun Wukong rolls more parries than hits on a Defense roll, he can Guard an adjacent ally.

Seasons of Heaven. Once per Resound, when an enemy attacks Sun Wukong with Faith, he can use Posture instead of Resilience for defense.

Inflict Violence: Gold Banded Cudgel. Attack an adjacent enemy with Bravery, then jump up to a number of squares equal to the number of hits after cancelling.

Techniques Note: only one technique can be used per Riff

Proud Deceiver Of His Enemies [2]. Sun Wukong attacks a fighter in 6 range with Faith. If there are no hits after canceling, Sun Wukong can teleport to any part of the battlefield.

The following techniques are only available to Sun Wukong when he is Staggered.

Raced With The Flying Dragons [1]. Sun Wukong flies to an opponent in range 3 and attacks with Bravery. If he hits after cancelling, both Sun Wukong and his target are left Wide Open and Hasted.

Like A Dancing Phoenix [2]. Sun Wukong attacks all fighters in a line 4 with Bravery, setting them aflame on a hit.

On The Scale Of Heaven And Earth [3]. Sun Wukong attacks all enemies in an area (burst 2 range 3) with Bravery. The attack is Skewering. On a hit, an enemy is Debilitated.

Gambits (d8)

Phase 1: Great Sage Equaling Heaven

1-4: Shove > Rush > Inflict Violence

5-8: Rush > Proud Deceiver Of His Enemies [2]

Phase 2: With a Head like Mount Taishan. Triggers automatically when Sun Wukong is Staggered. Sun Wukong grows to Size 3.

1-3: Rush > Inflict Violence > Rush

4-5: Rush > Like A Dancing Phoenix [2]

6-7: Inflict Violence > Raced With The Flying Dragons [1] > Inflict Violence

8: On The Scale Of Heaven And Earth [3]

[c3lsthe]

Is MK the Connected Arms Gibbon?

spoiler warning for season 4 and the season 4 special ig

So I watched a few videos on JTTW, and it mentioned the four celestial primates. Y’know, there’s Wukong and Macaque of course, but then it mentioned two others I wasn’t aware of. The Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey and the Connected Arms Gibbon.

From JTTW, it says the Red Horse Monkey ‘Has knowledge of yin and yang, Understands human affairs, Is adept in its daily life And able to avoid death and lengthen its life.’ It was interesting to see another primate compared to Wukong and Macaque, but the next one caught my attention.

The Connected Arms Gibbon ‘Seize the sun and the moon, Shorten a thousand mountains, Distinguish the auspicious from the inauspicious, And manipulate planets and stars.’

I kind of saw a correlation between the Connected Arms Gibbon and MK, which spurred me to half assed reasoning and this post.

First off, in the Chinese version of LMK, MK is often referred to as Qi Xiaotian, loosely translated into little Heaven, or little sky (I might be wrong, idk) but this could be reference to him manipulating the sky as he’s supposed to. As of now, we still don’t know MK’s origin, like who his birth mother or father is, but we can speculate who might in the very least be related to MK’s past.

I don’t disagree that Wukong isnt related, though I think it’s because of that correlation they have due to both of them being celestial primates.

in JTTW itself, both of the other primates were actually Wukong’s advisors, but lmk isn’t a direct translation of JTTW. It’s an adaptation, and things change. I’ve just been ranting? So I’m gonna at least kinda make rough similarities. For starters, the recognizing inauspicious and auspicious is probably not viewing success, but rather of who’s good for MK’s journey and who isn’t. Lmk is a show about MK’s growth as a character, and I see the whole thing as him seeing who he can trust and learn from, and who he can’t be around. Also if we are considering him actually being the Connected Arms Gibbon, then he isn’t in touch with the celestial part of himself, so therefore isn’t good at seeing the auspicious and inauspicious from one another.

third, it says that the Connected Arms Gibbon can seize the sun and the moon, which in lmk’s context be talking about Wukong and Macaque? Many times in the show, they are referenced as the hero and the warrior. The sun and the moon, blah blah blah. If it does talk about MK and the relation with his mentors, what could this mean? Maybe he defeats them and goes out of control? He seizes them in battle? Maybe it’s the opposite, and he makes them a better version of themselves? Seize the sun and moon into a happy life, each one around MK’s thumb.

lastly the shortening of mountains. We already saw the insane power MK had while fighting Azure Lion. Though in lmk (it’s theorized!!) that it’s a matter of whether or not MK is able to control/harness it. Maybe this is the determining factor of the previous claim, it’ll be the journey of seeing MK seizing the sun and the moon.

so in conclusion (lmao) MK could possibly be the Connected Arms Gibbon. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.