#celestial primates

[noodlecatt467]

I could not get this interaction out of my head where the baboon would immediately assume Wukong and Macaque are a couple and them just being very confused when Wukong says that’s not the case

You know those two people that obviously love each other and everyone knows it but them,yeah that’s FFM with these guys, and they are over it

This scene is hypothetical and I have yet to decide whether it’s canon to the CelestialPrimatesAU comic

Also the grey monkey is the solder that rides with wukong on the cloud in the AU comic, I named him Wei,he has anxiety and I love him

[peony-flowerking7]

Gibbon time

So, Yuan is actually the tallest ape out of them all! THERE'S NO DENYING IT!!

Even Macaque being the tallest come to wukong and Duzhe, he cannot overtake YUAN THEMSELVES!! She's lanky and pretty chill. Wukong and Macaque had fun time with them, they never touched the floor and always stood on trees, she is not walking on the ground she's walking on top of the trees. Long Armed Gibbon rarely spent time in the floor so here ya go.

Also fun fact in Journey to the West Wukong idea for becoming immortal and going to Master Subodhi to gain immortality was from a Gibbon. So when Wukong was on his days where he was like oh man I don't wanna die and he was afraid of death Yuan was the one to advice Wukong about Master Subodhi. So yeah....says a lot of things.

Fun fact about Yuan they actually don't like the feeling of stone on their feet, so I have this cute idea where Wukong and Macaque built a forest around their palace so Yuan wouldn't be touching the floor. Man...there such great friends I wonder what happened.

[quitealotofsodapop]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if stone monkeys actually can give birth or lay stone eggs naturally? Like... if they have a partner it'll be a regular old birth the same as how MK and the twins came into the world... but say a stone monkey didn't have a partner. Stone Monkey are a rare and critically endangered species afterall (even if they don't have the protections of an endangered species).

So what if, as a biological advantage, a stone monkey actually can lay a stone egg and give birth to a little baby stone monkey the same way as how Wukong and Macaque were born. But it's risky since creating life without a partner is beyond dangerous and most don't survive to even see the egg hatch, so most can only have one at a time and have to REALLY want a kid since, well, they'd basically be trading their life for the kids'. A kid that probably wouldn't even be hatched until long after their parent is dead.

I think with Wukong, it'd be a bit different because, well, 7 times over immortal monkey. But he'd still experience the negative effects and basically be completely vulnerable for a long time afterwards if he ever did it.

Just a little headcanon I thought up that I thought you'd be interested in.

Oh like parthenogenesis! Like some reptiles do when theres no available mates. I figure in a similar sense, the baby Stone Monkey would be a near-genetic clone of the parent; with the environment the "womb" is in adding life energy/qi/dao and affecting the appearance/abilities of the developing monkey within. Wukong likely popped out the way he did cus his egg was at the top of a mountain - his egg absorbing the violent life energy of what was once an active volcano over thousands of years.

Considering a certain few lines in Jttw, it's suggested that Wukong and Macaque are the last of their kind (with Six Eared being a variant/subspecies) - or they're just the only ones in that hemisphere. Like ancient human relatives the great Stone Monkeys became lost to time or were drowned in the Great Flood, or in the case of the Gibbon and Baboon; left Earth entirely.

The idea of a Stone Monkey deciding one day "I want a baby" and their body taking from there if there wasn't a viable mating option is really interesting. Their body's becoming like golems, weathered down into boulders if damage comes to them. And also very sad cus they know that theres a really good chance that they will never meet their baby. :(

Though imagine what the potiential "trigger" for it could be...

Guanyin: "The Monkey King is currently held beneath the Five Point Mountain. It will act as his prison for the next five centuries." Gold Star: "Ah. Make sure he's watered frequently and has plenty of oxygen." Guanyin: "But of course, it is only humane. However, doesn't he possess many forms of immortality?" Gold Star: *is so old that he witnessed the first Stone Monkeys, some even developing on his planet* Gold Star: "Not unless you want him to make another of himself." Guanyin: "Pardon?" Gold Star: "In my observations; when a Stone Monkey without a mate wished to reproduce, they would bury themselves and abstain from all biological needs until their bodies returned to the stone from whence they came. A new stone egg formed within their body as if it were a womb. The process is very taxing, and many died if another was not present to "wake" them afterwards. Though even in the case of parental death; the egg within the body would live on to hatch forth an infant to be raised by the familial troop." Guanyin, panicking: "I... I will be back in a moment." Wukong, beneath the mountain: "...why am I thinking about having kids?" Guanyin: *busts in holding molten copper and iron cus it was the only thing next to her at the time*

Of course it is unlikely for Wukong to actually *die* if his body decided to Copy/Paste him into an egg. But the possible way it could occur to him accidentally in any universe would be scary.

Like say... being trapped in a (newly) air-tightened Furnace by spiteful past enemy...

Lets just say I thought of another way that Luzhen is created >:)

Macaque: *pops open the lid to the airless Furnace* "Oh thank Buddha! You're intact. Drink some water dummy." Wukong, "awakened" by the fresh air and water: "...I think I'm pregnant." Macaque: "Uh... congrats?" Wukong: "No, like. Being cooked in there with no air made me pregnant." Macaque, only vaguely familar with their species: "...we should really ask Gold Star about this."

Luzhen in the TMKATI au would be celebrated as an adored, if not odd, new member to the family. His egg pops out after a long time of just sitting in SWK's body like his swallowed a rock. Luzhen "hatched" in a way that triggered something akin to labor. After all, Wukong's egg split open his Rock-mother (possibly the body of his parent) when it was his time to hatch. Wukong decides it is the worst pain he's ever felt in all his immortal life. Luzhen blinks slowly when his shell finally cracked all the way, confused on where he was.

The bit of dao Luzhen absorbed from his enviroment allowed him to develop just a tiny difference to his father; a pair of moon-silver eyes. Macaque smugly declares Luzhen's beautiful eyes are clearly a trait he inherited from him - and likely *did* depending on if any part of Macaque ended up in the Furnace with Wukong too. Like lets say the bones from an arm grapsing deperately before the lid of the Furnace slammed shut...

Hilariously, if Sun Wukong couldn't breath and/or wasn't able to crawl towards the Wind Trigram his first time cooking in the Furnace; there was a good chance that Lao Tzu would have opened the Furnance to a statue-like Monkey King with an egg inside of it. Wukong finally reawakening 500 years later with a heavy stomach and *many* questions.

[ghostly-creator]

TWO CELESTIAL PRIMATES COMING UUUUP!

Inspo for it comes from this:

Does this mean I'm gonna be naming Liu'er Mihou "Sun Xinghe"? ... Maybe probably idk. Cause giving them name would feel NICE. So who knows?

ANYWAY I'M GOING BACK TO DOING ARTFIGHT STUFF CAUSE I GOTTA MAKE DEFENSES.

[violetjedisylveon]

Shadowpeach Family AU Meme 5

writing gives me meme ideas

*Yuanhou is the Long Armed Gibbon and Mahou is the Red Bottomed Horse Monkey, Macaque is okay with Yellow Tusk, it's not great, but not terrible.*

I thought it would be funny to have Macaque know the other celestial primates and Wukong be confused af when these two show up at his house.

So they are besties and currently placing bets on how long it takes Wukong to realize that they are besties. Once he does they plan to go on double dates and trade stories of all the shit they've been up to.

Yuanhou and Mahou have been watching the development of Shadowpeach for the longest time. They have seen so much of it.

I hc that Yuanhou uses his arms the same way Plastic Man does cause, it's funny. I don't have a better reason, I just think it'd be funny. He will just drop stuff off on FFM from his home by just stretching his arm all the way over there.

[the-monkey-ruler]

omg and in the play before the novel wukong had an older sister called holy mother wuzhiqi!

She was! Another good reason to remember the prototype Wukong (Xingzhe) was that he had SIBLINGS.

I always thought how cool it would have been if the celestial primates were inspired by them but considering that Xingzhe had four siblings making them five altogether would be one too many. And that there only seem to be 3 Monkey Sages and Wukong being one of them, making them 1 monkey too few.

The number four really never gets touched... damn.

But if there was a way to combine the lore together it could be that three of his four siblings are actually monkeys (Wuzhiqi Shengmu, Qitian Dasheng, and Shuashua Sanlang) while his first sister is more human in her description in other sources (Lishan Laomu).

If I would have to somehow combine Xingzhe's lore with the Spiritual Primates then I think I would do it something like this.

Great Sage Equaling Heaven (Qitian Dasheng) 齊天大聖 - Changed to Sun Wukong

Great Sage Reaching Heaven (Tongtian Dasheng) 通天大聖, - Six Eared Macaque getting Xinghe's original title, maybe even hinting that he was the turbulent Sun Xingzhe prototype.

Playful Third (?) (Shuashua Sanlang) 耍耍三郎 - Red Bottom Horse Monkey

Holy Mother Wuzhiqi 巫支祇聖母 Wuzhiqi Shengmu- Long Armed Gibbon

I would think that maybe switching Xingzhe's original title with the 齊天大聖 would just highlight how different the Yuan Sun Xingshe and the Ming Sun Wukong were written. Giving a little meta-outlook that perhaps the Yuan tale was inspired by the Six-Eared Macaque all along which for an adaption I would find SUCH a cool reference.

There is a lot that could go into this kind of adaption, especially since there are still other monkey gods that are known about today that could be tied into giving the Primordial Primates some more background and lore, connecting them that they were all once monkeys of legend but eventually lost their prestige through time as their eldest brother overtook the spotlight.

It would just be awesome to give the Primates just more attention in that they had just vague backgrounds I get directors would want to just have fun with them, but having real ties to past Xiyouji adaptions just... would be so meaningful really.

Though another interesting tie-in (and might be more of a stretch) could be giving the other three celestial primates with the Three Monkey Sages.

That kind of adaption could be suggesting that the other three Sages were sticking together and making their own name until one of them gave in and wanted to imitate Sun Wukong.

Cinnabar Cloud Great Sage (DanXia DaSheng) 丹霞大圣 - The Red Face Monkey Sage - Six Earred Macaque

Great Sage Reaching Heaven (TongTian DaSheng) 通天大圣- The Black Face Monkey Sage - Long Armed Gibbon

Playful Third ShuaShua SanLang (耍耍三郎) - The White Face Monkey Sage - Red Bottom Horse Monkey

This is more based on the looks and the particular reason that I think that Six Ears being the Cinnabar Cloud Great Sage is better here since the Cinnabar Cloud Great Sage actually DID steal Wukong's identity in the Pacification of the Demons of Linshui 臨水平妖傳. Also, the Black Faced Monkey Sage looks more like a Gibbon and the White Face Monkey Sage looks more like a Baboon to me.

This has made me go on such a tangent but this is all to say that there could be SO MUCH MORE LORE in adaptions given to the primordial primate with how many AWESOME legends there are out there.

[looney-mooney]

Lego Monkie Kid MK theory

Spoilers for season 4 and the season 4 special under the cut!

So we can all agree that MK is a Celestial Primate, right? We're all on the same page about that? Okay, good. Now that we've established that, let's get into the interesting question there.

Which one is he?

From what I've seen, most people in the fandom seem to agree that he's a new celestial primate, someone who's sort of a class of his own. But this is Lego Monkie Kid, and we all know how much this show absolutely ADORES reusing characters and concepts from the original Journey to the West at pretty much every opportunity.

I'm going to be using this article I found for most of this, but it's pretty much all from the book: https://journeytothewestresearch.com/2022/02/20/a-quick-study-of-the-four-celestial-monkeys-from-journey-to-the-west/

In Journey to the West, there are four celestial primates, two of whom are prominent characters in the narrative and two of whom are presumed dead before we get the chance to meet them.

Sun Wukong is the "Stone Monkey of Numinous Wisdom" (or Numinous Luminosity, depending on which translator you ask), who "knows transformations, Recognizes the seasons, Discerns the advantages of earth, And is able to alter the course of planets and stars." Macaque is... well... "The Six-Eared Macaque," who "has a sensitive ear, Discernment of fundamental principles, Knowledge of past and future, And comprehension of all things." We already know who these two are, so I'm not gonna get more into them.

The other two Celestial Primates are characters we've never met before, in the book OR the show. The Connected Arms Gibbon, who can "Seize the sun and the moon, Shorten a thousand mountains, Distinguish the auspicious from the inauspicious, And manipulate planets and stars," and the Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey, who has "knowledge of yin and yang, Understands human affairs, Is adept in its daily life And able to avoid death and lengthen its life." MK is probably a reincarnation of one of these two (if not some sort of bizarre combination of both?)

There's a case to be made for either of these roles. I don't think he's the Gibbon though, since MK's monkey form clearly has a tail (three of them, even, in his war form!) and Gibbons, as great apes, don't tend to have those. It'd be cool to meet the Connected Arms Gibbon, though!

Instead, I would like to make the case for MK being the Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey. There's a lot of debate over what species of monkey that's even meant to represent, so MK would be free to be a sort of... amalgamation monkey. The IDEA of a monkey, instead of any specific species, like Sun Wukong himself seems to be. (Plus, he usually wears red pants, so that covers the "red-buttocked" part of the character description lol)

Not to mention, that "understands human affairs" bit REALLY fits, since he's spent his whole entire LIFE living as a human! Not to mention, one of the very FIRST powers MK struggled with was invulnerability, something that was so powerful it had to be taken away from him (and something even Sun Wukong himself doesn't appear to fully have - he's immortal times a kajillion, but that doesn't mean he can't get beat up!) In a genre that has a lot of "invulnerable protagonist" as a basic element of the storytelling, that's a pretty clever way to hammer home that "avoids death" is an actual POWER of his pretty immediately

Plus, who's MK's BFF FOREVER? That's right, Mei the Dragon Horse girl. Who better to be the Horse Monkey's bestie?

But I wanna know what you guys think! Do you think MK is the Red-Buttocked Horse Monkey? The Connected Arms Gibbon? Or some completely new Celestial Monkey the showrunners made up specifically for the protagonist of their show? LMK!

[tigertaurus22]

My headcanon regarding JTTW/Monkie Kid:

The other two celestial monkeys are still alive but they don’t live in China. I also like to believe that they’re both female to balance things out but I could be wrong.

The Gibbon lives in Southern Asia and the Horse-Monkey/Baboon lives in Africa.

I imagine the Baboon living in some hut in the jungle with serious Rafiki/Mama Odie energy.

I can see her with a giant pet snake that she uses to get places and wielding her own wooden staff that she smacks people with. She’d also have a thick African accent.

My other headcanon is that Macaque wandered far afield after he dies and probably gets resurrected after JTTW. He might have gone looking for the other two monkeys. I also like to think he might have visited Europe and the Americas at some point.

[zuala-bear]

I had this idea in my head for a few days and finally did somthing w/ it- 

Anyhoo- monkeys tend to borrow stuff, so my brain figured that the celestial primates would have to go borrowing together at some point

[peachburger]

More of the primates!

I had another draft that I was working on yesterday- but now I finished..the clothes aren’t that good I know 😅 but hey I’ll figure something out as usual

[aereuss]

First Post!

Since i liked Eyeshot AU quite a lot couldn't help myself to draw this boy.

(totally because i am not obsessing over Macaque.)

Credits to @dynamicsimp for making this AU a thing💥

Also a bonus meme below-

[noodlecatt467]

Part 3 of chapter 2

Pt1 Pt2 here

part 4

masterpost

[sexynbgfpollhost]

I present to you, one of the four celestial primates, Long-Armed Gibbon:

(In every dub besides Chinese, she goes by Gibby/Gibbon)

Design Details: As you can tell, some of her design is inspired from stars. Her outfit coloration is meant to be a direct swap of Red Baboon's. I decided to make her little face heart upside down, to really show her personality type. Her black outfit was inspired off of ninjas. If her cape looks out of place, good, it's supposed to. Her skin is grey just like a real gibbon. Hair is much poofier and spikier than the others. She prefers to fight with fists or use her powers. Strands of her hair can turn into little stars (you could call 'em "ninja stars" heh hehe..)

(Listen, we were given basically zilch on the other two primates so I worked with what I got.)

Here's a link to the season 5 fanfic I'm writing with her in it: Wattpad Link

[quitealotofsodapop]

The idea that there were Stone Monkeys on FFM before even Wukong actually has some evidence in the book. Or at least... there's evidence of some sort of civilization kiving in the mountain before Wukong had hatched. Namely, Water-Curtain Cave itself and the stone palace and bridge within it. That had been built and fully furnished BEFORE Wukong had jumped into the waterfall and discovered the cave, fitted with a signpost declaring the title of the place and everything. This meant Wukong and his first troop weren't the first to live there.

absolutely thats my hc for Stone Monkeys

They were in abundance on Earth and in the other celestial realms (Earth's moon, and Gold Star's protectorate Venus for example) where less hardy species could not survive. By the time of Wukong's hatching however, they had long since become functionally extinct.

Flower Fruit Mountain was their most beloved home. And it was one of the last.

The Stone Palace beyond the waterfall was not placed there by fate. Their was still food on the tables and ash in the stoves - meaning that the last inhabitants had left or had passed without notice.

Whom or whatever Stone Monkeys/Shi Baomu had lived in the Stone Palace before are long gone - but they left knowing that they would leave behind something to protect their fellow primates.

Sun Wukong is the orphan of a lost civilization.

As is the Six Eared Macaque born on the lunar surface.

The Long Armed Gibbon born along the Heavenly River.

And of the Red-Bottomed Horse Monkey born upon the red planet.

[ghostly-creator]

SHENGMU!! next up, Xinghe (aka our Six-eared favorite)

[journeytothewestresearch]

One question is if the six-eared macaque is a negative aspect of Sun Wukong's personality, that means that the other two mystical monkeys are also aspects of the personality except that unlike the Macaque, they are both positive aspects or simply part of Sun's personality. and the reason why they do not appear directly or are agonistic in jttw is because they do not go against the path of Buddhist enlightenment

Sorry if you don't understand, I don't speak English and I'm using a translator.

I've also speculated that the other two cestial primates are aspects of Sun Wukong's mind. An update to my Six Ears article reads:

I'm not really sure why the other two don't explicitly appear in the narrative. But I do know that, including Sun Wukong, the four celestial primates mirror the four kinds of monkeys and apes living on Flower-Fruit Mountain. As I write here, chapter one reads:

The Handsome Monkey King thus led a flock of gibbons [yuanhou, 猿猴], macaques [mihou, 獼猴], and horse-monkeys [mahou, 馬猴], some of whom were appointed by him as his officers and ministers (based on Wu & Yu, 2012, vol. 1, p. 106). 美猴王領一群猿猴、獼猴、馬猴等，分派了君臣佐使。

The gibbons are also called "long-armed gibbons" (tongbei yuanhou, 通背猿猴; lit: "(arms)-through-the-back gibbons"). [1] (This refers to the belief that the long, agile arms of the gibbon were somehow connected (i.e. tongbi, 通臂), passing through the back (i.e. tongbei, 通背) (Gulik, 1967, p. 92-93).) The horse-monkeys are also called "red-buttocked horse-monkeys" (chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴). [2] These terms are important to remember.

Here is the list of the four celestial primates:

Stone-Monkey of Numinous Wisdom (Lingming shihou, 靈明石猴) - i.e. Sun Wukong

Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkey (Chikao mahou, 赤尻馬猴) - The exact same kind as that mentioned above.

Long-Armed Gibbon (Tongbi yuanhou, 通臂猿猴; lit: "Connected Arms Gibbon") - As mentioned above, tongbi (通臂) and tongbei (通背) refer to the ape's long arms.

Six-Eared Macaque (Liu'er mihou, 六耳獼猴)

The apes and monkeys of Flower-Fruit Mountain and the Four Celestial Primates both include Sun Wukong (i.e. the Stone Monkey), Red-Buttocked Horse-Monkeys (Chikao mahou), Long-Armed Gibbons (Tongbei and Tongbi), and Macaques (mihou), one of which has Six Ears (Liu'er). Therefore, the two groups are practically the same.

Based on this, a person might suggest that if one celestial primate (Sun Wukong) is born on Flower-Fruit mountain, then others can be, too. This opens the door to all four of the celestial primates having been born (or at least manifesting) there. And since Six-Ears is an aspect of Monkey's mind, the missing two celestial apes could be as well.

I should note that Wukong's Four Might Commanders are two long-armed (tongbei) gibbons and two red-buttocked horse-monkeys. Someone could suggest that two of them make up the missing celestial primates. But they are never shown to have great powers, just knowledge about the world outside of Flower-Fruit Mountain.

In the end, though, the missing celestial primates may not appear simply because they are not important to the overall narrative.

Notes:

1) Yu (Wu & Yu, 2012) incorrectly translates tongbei yuanhou (通背猿猴) as "bare back monkey" (vol. 1, p. 131).

2) Yu (Wu & Yu, 2012) incorrectly translates this as "baboon" (vol. 1, p. 106). The horse-monkey was a nickname for the macaques placed in horse stables to keep away sickness (refer to here).

Sources:

Gulik, R. H. (1967). The Gibbon in China: An Essay in Chinese Animal Lore. Leiden: E.J. Brill.

Wu, C., & Yu, A. C. (2012). The Journey to the West (Vols. 1-4) (Rev. ed.). Chicago, Illinois: University of Chicago Press.