#Ancient Sith

[legendscon]

Panel Announcement: In Conversation with Abel Peña

From the Sith to the Mandalorians, Abel Peña’s extensive publications have covered it all! Join us for a discussion of his works for Star Wars Insider, Hyperspace, RPGs and more!

Full Schedule: https://legends-con.com/guests-programming/

Buy tickets now, and join us for a celebration of all things Expanded Universe in Burbank, CA on September 9th & 10th: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/legends-consortium-2023-tickets-541786186067

[cjorgens2022]

Imperial!Tech

I’ve been inspired by two particular Imperial!Tech Fics, one is Wwheeljack’s Imperial Tech (includes In the Name of Science) and Aelfwynn’s Observations and Analysis in the Galactic Empire Imperial Tech!

in the show canon, Tech is stoic and calm, but when his chip activates in my Imperial!Tech AU his stoicness would be much colder, he wouldn’t be above critiquing Hunter in particular for not following orders on both Kaller and Onderon, even using the warning of informing the Kaminoans AND Tarkin about his leadership, and the fact this Imperial Tech will calmly and coldly question Hunter on his reliability as not just a brother, but a leader!

Tech would become even more dedicated to science, now that my Tech is part of the empire, he’ll do any and all experiments that align with the Empire, he will be very willing to lure in Jedi and Clone alike for his experiments and perhaps *recondition* them to see the benefits of The Empire! His full rank would be known as Scientist Imperial Commander CT-9902! My Imperial!Tech Fic reaches across the post clone wars era, into the imperial era, throughout the Galactic Civil War, into the New Republic Age and into the time of the sequels!

[grand-admiral-thrawn]

Sith Witch

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny

[stoat-party]

Hey, all. It’s your friendly neighborhood synth biology expert,* here to remind you of the horrifying reality that Gen 3 synths can canonically glitch out.

*this user is not a biology expert, synth or otherwise

Update: The primary drive message is confirmed in dialogue to be about early-Gen synths. Which means that A#-## designations do apply to them, meaning J2-84 could have also been a robo-synth.

[sithisms]

“i thought that damn thing was going to be my coffin.” — Darius — @mando-of-esverr

The words of fear. Do much fear and yet he seemed to hide it. That was amusement to his ears as he held onto the Mando's arm tightly. He wished not to see him fall into a bottomless pit amidst the planet's ancient sith ruins. The stone bridge given out and he had just barely managed to make the leap.

"Am I to save you every time?" Kun asked with a slight his as he lifted him up and dropped him to where he was on his hands and knees." I permitted you to join, yes. Yet all you are doing is holding me back with your antics, Mando." Walking up to a stone door he shut his eyes and breathed slowly outward. As he did the force rushed through his body as his Glover's crystal began to glow vibrantly in response. And as he pushed his arms outward. The stone flew back with a great force push. The stone crumbling to pieces on his overall force he put behind it as he walked into the great open area. A smile on his face. What he's been looking for. A sith holocron. The prism of red glowing amidst a pedestal in the middle of the room as he hummed.

"There it is.." he knew there were still holocrons out there. Planets far from reach bore fruit to unheard of knowledge he wanted to get his hands on for centuries. New knowledge. New possibilities. A hunger forming in his eyes with a deviously dark smile as he approached it." All mine.."

[sarellathesphinx]

My biggest character flaw is that every time I see something about abt Cait being just a robot without his own personality, I can’t help writing a tag novel about how much I refuse to accept it

[femurs-vectivus]

*gestures * dramatic introduction of the Lord of the Dead Darth Imperius, esteemed Dark Council member, rumoured soul collector, demise of the Eternal Emperor, former slave who was 19 when he learned how to read and now tries to make all his friends join in on his crippling death stick addiction. Disappeared one day under mysterious circumstances* (*got killed by a rock to his head while alone in a cave.)

[mando-of-esverr]

"I know what's in your mind..your hiding something from me..aren't you~?" He hissed. Thoes days. Thoes times where he thinks he's still on Yavin Four only to realize he's not there anymore. His grip on his neck tight as he would look him in the eye. Ripping his helmet free from his face with no struggle. Infact he broke it from his neck that kept it on his armor.

"I will break it out of you. Your in league with Baas aren't you? I'll gladly break his spirit out of you Darious..slowly.."

The ship had felt uneasy since leaving the sith temple, something in the air... Like a wounded Alkagra gator waiting for something to get close before snapping at it... He knew he had to tell Kun at some point... better get it over with...

As Darius entered the hall to find Kun, he had only a moment to look over at the Sith's question before--

"KUN!" Darius choked out, gripping the man's bracer as the sith held him against the wall of his own ship. "What're--you--"

Then the man ripped off his helmet, shock, shame, indignation, and disgrace filled him. His mind raced as one of the Watch's creeds was broken. 'Have you ever removed your helmet before anyone?' No. 'Has anyone ever removed your helmet?' N--!!!!

A young, pale face with sharp Esverran features met Kun's gaze, the young man's short dark hair pressed down with the shape of his helmet. His smooth features rumpled as a seething snarl escaped him. Golden irises blazed like molten metal against the fir-green color of his sclera.

"Sithspit! GIVE IT BACK!!!"

For the first time since he'd known Kun, Darius struck out at him, aiming a strong kick to his middle to get him off and maybe drop his helmet. There was rage in this kick, rage, and betrayal - an agreement broken - a boundary of peace breached! A Mandalorian wronged. And Mandos were nothing if not vengeful when wronged....

[gender-trash]

for the long-running albeit recently lapsed housemates star wars rpg campaign, i built a character and @combat-epistemologist built a character; we quickly discovered that a two-person party kind of sucks, so dm @transbionic-shieldmaiden built a bunch of other lesbian npcs for us to hang out with. in a typical encounter each of us will be given the steering wheel on a lesbian or two in addition to our regular PCs, just to liven things up a bit. (which i guess is less of an NPC and more of a... quasi-player character? or something.) they didn't necessarily all have to be lesbians, but have you MET @transbionic-shieldmaiden??

so anyway i'm working on my silly little dice.py TUI and flipping through the pile of character sheets for various star wars lesbians as i add all their weapons to the character library and i keep looking over at @transbionic-shieldmaiden and saying, like, lin zeria can reroll all 1's on her blaster damage??? why would you do this to me TT__TT

@transbionic-shieldmaiden: i'm so sorry :/

me: oh, her crowbar attack is "reroll lowest" AND she gets an extra damage die but -2 ATK with rapid strike? i'm going to fucking kill myself

@transbionic-shieldmaiden: i'm sorry! i'm sorry!!

[legendscon]

Panel Announcement: Non-Fiction Fiction

Abel Peña and Jason Fry discuss the ins and outs of writing "non-fiction" work within the Star Wars universe and their own works, including The Essential Atlas, Vader: The Ultimate Guide, The Essential Guide to Warfare, and The History of the Mandalorians.

Full Schedule: https://legends-con.com/guests-programming/

Buy tickets now, and join us for a celebration of all things Expanded Universe in Burbank, CA on September 9th & 10th: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/legends-consortium-2023-tickets-541786186067

[cienie-isengardu]

Cienie’s take on Mandalorian Culture: Kad Ha’rangir and mandalorian traditional weapons, p.3

part 1 --- part 2

In contrast to previous sources that with no doubt tried synthesizing Legends with The Clone Wars lore, the Collapse of the Republic Roleplaying Sourcebook (2019) seems to be written first and foremost with New Canon in mind, at least in regard to Mandalorian culture. While understandably a main focus was put on the conflict between New Mandalorians (pacifists) and Death Watch (traditionalists) just before and during Clone Wars, the history of Mandalorians was presented there in a general, not really detailed way - the Mandalorians were warriors for generations and that is basically the summary. 

The two vital data about Mandalorian weapons are:

the importance of Darksaber (a sword not exactly needed to lead Mandalorians, but an important heirloom of Vizsla clan and cultural item nonetheless)  

the traditional swords made out of Mandalorian iron are known as beskads and their shape was based on ancient Taung design. 

The second point is especially interesting because the visible lack of connection to “ancient time” lore makes the mention of Taung a surprising addition. As I do not have any insight into legal restrictions or demands put on authors, I can only speculate if the authors of this Rulebook couldn’t refer openly to Legends sources which is why this small callback is sneaked into the text without a proper context? Whatever the truth is, Bounty Hunter Code already had similar information, and the same as with the older source, I do not think Collapse of the Republic contradicts what original The Sith War comics presented.

Logically thinking, the metallurgist knowledge needed to be passed down from Taungs to humans and other assimilated Aliens before the original Mandalorians died out. The existence of Mandalorian traditional sword design however is not exactly the same as direct proof the said swords had any real religious importance in their culture. Even more, the lack of proper context who Taungs actually were for (human) Mandalorians raises a question, did Sourcebook mean ancient Taung as the pre-Mandalorian (Roon) culture or indication for original Mandalorian era? Because there is possibility that modern warriors based their beskads on archaeological findings from burial sites on Roon or alternatively, Taung!Mandalorians forged swords in the manner their own forefathers did before Mandalore was colonized. And so we come back to burial sites mentioned in Author’s Cut and a religious/cultural aspect of swords that may or may not survive to the Sith and Mandalorians Wars era. Similarly, we can’t cross out the possibility that Taung metallurgist created swords either for export[5], as gifts and/or sacred items or as equipment for their (non-Taung) vassals before those were acknowledged as equal to warriors and maybe even for Neo-Crusaders who in great numbers came from Republic (thus may be more familiar with sword fighting than more typical Mandalorian axes).

The same as Death Watch Manifesto, "Collapse of the Republic" puts a great importance on the modern conflict over mandalorian “national” identity; however in contrast to the earlier source, the provided knowledge is pretty much separated from warriors’ ancient (alien) origin and it does not even clarify which Taung design - of Roon or Mandalorian culture - it refers and this detail makes a great difference.

Another source worth to examine is one of Mandalorian songs - “Vode An” (meaning: Brothers All), the best known from Republic Commando Game Soundtrack. Years ago, Lucasart.com published the ancient Mandalorian text and English translation of chants used in the game - for those interested, an archived version is still available. 

Part of this song, although not specified by name, was also included in Republic Commando: Hard Contact as a little in-universe snippet added to chapter 7:

Bal kote, darasuum kote, Jorso ‘ran kando a tome. Sa kyr 'am Nau tracyn kad, Vode an. (And glory, eternal glory, We shall bear its weight together. Forged like the saber in the fires of death, Brothers all.) ” — Traditional Mandalorian war chant 

Republic Commando: Triple Zero’s glossary calls the same song as “ancient Mandalorian war chant”.

Both Republic Commando game’s tie-in sources and book series note the old origin of the song and its traditional aspect. On the first glance, it is easy to assume this war chant could be created by Taung!Mandalorians and thus be a proof of swords' importance or presence in the pre-human culture era, especially if used as poetic metaphor. However we need to take two things into account:

First, as I mentioned before, with a culture that has existed for over 7,000 years the term “traditional” may easily refer to various stages of Mandalorian history. If we look closely at the all presented songs, Vode An share a lot similarities - if not the same lines - with other pieces, like:

Bal kote, darasuum kote (And Glory, Eternal Glory) with the first line of “Kote Darasuum” (the difference is addition of “and” in Vode An)

Motir ca’tra nau tracinya // Gra’tua cuun hett su dralshy’a // Aruetyc runi solus cet o’r. (Those who stand before us light the night sky in flame // Our vengeance burns brighter still // Every last traitorous soul shall knee) share the same lyrics with

🔶"Rage of the Shadow Warriors" (later officially named Dha Werda Verda):

Duum motir ca’tra nau tracinya // Gra’tua cuun hett su dralshy’a (Let all those who stand before us light the night sky in flame // Our vengeance burns brighter still.)

🔶 "Gra’tua Cuun":

Motir ca’tra nau tracinya // Gra’tua cuun hett su dralshy’a // Aruetyc runi solus cet o’r prudii an. (Those who stand before us light the night sky in flame // Our vengeance burns brighter still // Every last traitorous soul shall kneel in our shadow.)

From the perspective of making music for a Republic Commando Game - and to my understanding, the lyrics were first created by Jesse Harlin and later official mandalorian language came to life thanks to Karen Traviss and her book series - it makes sense that all songs have the same lyric “core”. However, from the perspective of in-universe culture, the similarity either implies a very limited creativity (artistic needs) of Mandalorians or those songs drew inspiration from the same source but themselves may not be created in the same era. Alternatively, one of them is the original version that inspired the later variants who naturally differ from each other due to isolation and cultural (clan) differences, as Mandalorians lived in various enclaves across the galaxy and clans did not always reside in close proximity to each other. Another possibility is that some of the presented chants were adopted by Mandalorian groups as their specific symbols, similarly as happened with clone troopers using Vode An as their army’s anthem and Kote Darasuum as their motto[6]. 

Frankly, from the all named songs, only for Rage of the Shadow Warriors - in later sources known also as Dha Werda Verda - we have premises to assign it to a specific era. Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare Author's Cut, Part 2 - Ancient Coruscant  places its origin to regime of Mandalorian the Ultimate and its role as a plea of dying out Taung species to be remembered by new, non-Taung Mandalorians:

Hu Jibwe, scholar of military history at the Salmagodro Grand Academy, notes that there is another song popularly known as “Dha Werda Verda” -- the Mando’a war chant known as “Rage of the Shadow Warriors.” During the Clone Wars, some Mandalorian trainers taught this chant to their clones, and it became a hallmark of those units. It’s rarely performed today, so if you have a chance to see it, take advantage: The chant and ritual dance are mesmerizing, particularly if the dancers follow Mandalorian tradition and drum out the rhythm on the chest or back of those next to them: The ash of the Taung beats strong within the Mandalorians' heart. We are the rage of the Warriors of the Shadow, The first noble sons of Mandalore. Let all those who stand before us light the night sky in flame. Our vengeance burns brighter still. The gauntlet of Mandalore strikes without mercy. We are the rage of the Warriors of the Shadow, The first noble sons of Mandalore. Let all those who stand before us light the night sky in flame. Our vengeance burns brighter still. But as Hu notes, “Rage” is far more recent than Dha Werda Verda. The best-preserved record of the Taung epic poem, written in Notron Cant and housed in the Baobab Archives on distant Manda, contains none of the verses of “Rage.” “It’s my belief that ‘Rage of the Shadow Warriors’ dates from the reign of Mandalore the Ultimate, when the Taungs knew they were being eclipsed,” Hu explains. “I’ve always thought it a poignant work -- a plea that the Taungs not be forgotten by the newborn culture they knew would outlive them.”

Mind you, this is just (in-universe) researcher’s opinion and the man may be wrong about the song's true purpose as this is only his academic assumption. However the mention of differences between the epic poem and the chant is a strong indication that the song was created much later[7]. Interestingly, Rage of the Shadow Warriors, if truly composed by Taungs in the period of (pre?) Mandalorian Wars, does not use a metaphor of “forged like the saber” while at the same time is the longest and most complex piece. Looking at the similar lyrics between Rage of the Shadow Warriors, Gra’tua Cuun and Vode An, one may wonder if the “saber” part wasn’t added in human!Mandalorians era where such a type of edged weapon became much more popular.

Another thing worth considering is the periodization of Mandalorian culture. More precisely what in-universe researchers and Mandalorian people themselves describe as ancient times? This is a very important question as sources often use “ancient” and “traditional” interchangeably yet those two terms are not the same and may indicate different meanings (the word ancient itself is more chronology based, the traditional - culturally). Secondly, our idea of an “ancient” and “modern” era in a technologically advanced galaxy far far away may be misleading because really, at which point antiquity officially ends? The best example for this problem is Darksaber itself.

The Armorer and Fenn Rau claimed Tarre Vizsla created this one of kind lightsaber around one thousand years ago which is of course impressive amount of time, but also a relative small part of overall long Mandalorian history (and even longer culture if we take into account the whole record of Taung species). And yet starwars.com’s databank still calls this item “An ancient lightsaber that serves as a powerful symbol of leadership to the Mandalorians”.

In Legends, one thousand years before the events of the Original Trilogy, the Republic and Jedi Order went through a great reconstruction known as the Ruusan Reformation that started the Republic Golden Age. Maybe the New Canon too uses similar periodization or its antiquity ended at a different, much later time?

Even if we narrow down the mandalorian antiquity from The Sith & Mandalorians Wars era to creating Darksaber, it is still three thousand years - a great period of time to which the term “ancient” will refer to. Which of course does not help to examine source material, especially related to traditional songs and items passed down from one generation to another for centuries.

So, how important were swords in Mandalorian culture and how does this weapon relate to Kad Ha’rangir?

Next part: Final conclusions and potential explanations of the problem.

SIDENOTES:

[5] In Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith #2 (1994) - a year before the TotJ comic series even introduced us to Taung!Mandalorians - for the first time Mandalorian iron is presented as a material that can withstand even a lightsaber cut. 

Master Jedi Arca Jeth used Mandalorian iron to secure a Sith tomb of Freedon Nadd, build in 3998 BBY on Dxun, Onderon’s dangerous moon (Uprising of Freedon Nadd #2) . The duel of Ulic Qel-Droma and Mandalore the Indomitable happened in 3996 BBY (The Sith War #1) and Mandalorians up to this point weren’t well known force within Republic border - they did conquered many worlds and their attention at some point was focused on Teta Empress and similar strong regions of this galaxy, yet for example Exar Kun - who in general was knowledge seeker - had literally no idea what the tomb was made of to whistand lightsaber which suggest Mandalorian Iron wasn’t worldwide known yet. This of course raise a question then how Master Jedi Arca Jeth even get his hands on such precious material - something rather hard to get by different means than from Mandalorians themselves, as:

A) beskar is found only in Mandalorian system

B) without a proper metallurgist knowledge beskar won’t be indurable

C) sources like Bounty Hunter Code states betraying the secrets of beskar and mandalorian metallurgist technique is punished by death and of course, this could be more modern nuance (especially when facing extermination of warrior culture) but definitely beskar had a special place in Mandalorian culture. 

Sadly, the issue of Master Arca using Mandalorian iron is, as far as I know, unresolved. 

[6] The Guide to Great Army of Republic (Insider 84) states:

[7] The use of the word “Mandalore” also supports the theory that the song Rage of the Shadow Warriors is a much later creation than epic poem. The version known and used by clones (as presented in Republic Commando game) has changed the original line to “Coruscanta kandosii adu.”, as reference to the capital of the Republic. This raises question though, if “forged like the saber” could be also changed from original into something more familiar and Republic/Jedi alike?

[theemmtropy]

Idk if anyone's pointed this out yet, but the Star Wars prequels bear a striking similarity to Egyptian mythology.

First up we have the Jedi Order as Ra the Sun God. Pretty self-explanatory, as Jedi are representatives of the Light Side of the Force. Keep in mind that Ancient Egyptians viewed order as good and chaos as evil, which lines up exactly with Jedi ideals.

Then we have Darth Sidious as Apophis the Serpent Demon of Chaos. The foe of Ra, he is the ultimate representative of chaos interpreted as evil.

Then we have Anakin as Set the Chaos God. Set was originally on the side of Ra, but fell to chaos and turned against his family.

Obi Wan is Horus the God of Protection and Kingship (among many other things). Obi Wan was given the heavy roles of leadership and protection at a young age, and often interacts with non-force users as an emissary and leader. This is similar to Horus being the protector and god-leader of Ancient Egyptian mortals.

That brings us to Yoda as Osiris the God and King of the Underworld. Both Yoda and Osiris had close calls with death but ultimately triumphed over it (Yoda almost being killed by Sidious and Osiris dying but being revived). They both then retreat to mysterious worlds to live their changed lives. Yoda is also the one to pursue communing with the dead through the Force, teaching Obi Wan how to commune with Qui Gon.

I'm open to criticism as I'm not an expert on either Star Wars or Ancient Egyptian mythology. This is just something I've noticed that has stuck with me for a while.

[engagemythrusters]

The vastly different vibes between Sith planets… Malachor was eerie, but had some aspect of it being alive once. Desolate, but historic. Exegol is just sinister to its core. It’s rotten all the way through.

[sithisms]

HC: Kun hadn't changed his lightsaber color simply because it helps him blend in. People don't get scared at the sight of a blue saber. They see a jedi like any other.

[lettis-novaturient]

wow just finished another session of OYA TTRPG and im in shock,,, what a session

never thought i would have seen bennie befriend a sith ghost and yet here i am

that being said none of us knew what was happening (even the DM rip bairn) and we were all TERRIFIED

ESSPECIALLY WHEN THE SITH GHOST ALL BUT CONSUMED THE FORCE GHOST WE HAD ON THE SQUAD

[iconac]

gonna shove revan into a play-dough mold until they come out in a shape that will be normal about the empire so i can follow imperial blogs