#But mxtx wrote him without having that in mind

[random-mdzs-thoughts-dumpster]

Me: The one good thing about Xiyao not being canon is that people can't claim LXC was thinking with his dic-

People: LXC was thinking with his dick.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

the fool 🤝 jin guangyao being easily the most dynamic and compelling characters in their respective canons, likely for reasons that were substantially if not entirely unintentional on the part of their respective authors

[reileinaxiu]

Hi dearies I'm not dead yet! 😆 Thesis writing makes me want to break down and cry sometimes 😭. Anyways to escape from reality 😜 I just got started on Peerless! 🤩. I've only just finished volume 1 and I didn't bring 2 and 3 from home but I really want to share my thoughts. Hopefully I can get started on Qiang Jin Jiu too when summer rolls in.

So spoiler warning ⚠️ ahead to the dearies who haven't read yet.

I just love love love the main couple so far. They have the same flavor as YanShen in Thousand Autumns on their first meeting but maybe wayyyy worse than YanShen and that's saying something since this is Yan Wushi we're talking about. At least YWS wasn't the instigator of SQ's poor health and gave him some help in healing him(not that it makes up for his shit treatment and future harm YWS did). Here Feng Xiao actively harmed Cui Buqu based on suspicions but that's not to say CBQ took it lying down when it was mentioned he willing stepped into FX's internment while still plotting behind his back. But it looks like FX might start being a little more considerate on the account of CBQ's poor health but it won't stop him from dragging him in danger or trying to manipulate benefits for Jiejian Bureau while the same can be said for CBQ and Zuoyue.

This has been a really refreshing dynamic so far its different from all the other novels I've read that I can recall. Instead of the classic shameless(likes to tease) and thinfaced(cannot handle overtures of romance normally) duo. Both of them are equally thickfaced and shameless enough to throw each other and themselves under the bus to get back at each other 🤣. Although CBQ is more reserved he absolutely has no qualms of making a spectacle of himself to get back at FX. While FX absolutely enjoys making a spectacle of his interactions with CBQ. So far they can't be equals in the same sense such as in martial prowess but CBQ makes up for it with his keen mind. And while FX also has a sharp and cunning mind, CBQ has been able to match and maybe even outpace him in the long term. It's cute, a frail tactician and flamboyant martial master in theory 😂.

Although there methods and choices are questionable and morally dubious(better expect it cause they're literally the spy team/black ops for the emperor and empress, also this is more or less palace drama where it's a question of when backstabbing occurs not if, unlike martial arts jianghu setting where moral exercises of honor and philosophy of righteousness and schools of thought are the usual conflicts), you can't help but feel admiration for how they predicted or manipulate events to there needs.

The side characters are also likeable. CBQ's deputies I think? Qiao Xian and Zhangsun Bodhi and the rest of the other bureau members, I appreciate there care for CBQ that goes beyond subordinate and leader. And they feel much confidence in there chief despite his frail constitution they don't underestimate his intellect and willpower. Also dear author has set up some tidbits for a sad back story I hope will expounded in future volumes.

I also like Meng Xi Shi's style of storytelling more. I love MXTX too, seeing their world in the eyes of their characters but MXS gives more context and multiple character points of views more often so we can see the story unfolding in different places even without our main characters and other characters thoughts. It's cool that MXS wrote this story in the same universe as Thousand Autumns. I always get excited when there's info mention that I can remember from Thousand Autumns.

This is a must recommend dearies. If you're into biting back and forth between your MC. I could not stop giggling like a madwoman reading them practically pinch each other's skin off in concession. Thanks for staying with me and I'd like to hear your thoughts on them I'm not opposed to spoilers but keep it minimal ☺️.

[twilightarc-gm]

💥👓💛👻

😍 Specs!! Hi!! I see you with these questions 🕵️‍♂️

From this Ask Game: Here

💥 What is one canon thing that you wish you could change? (MDZS) YOU KNOW ME!!! But instead of the super obvious answer about the romantic subplot or whatever, I gotta say like, I really don't think JYL had to literally die for WWX's man-pain. Would the Present Timeline story be drastically different? Yeah, but I think it would have been better. I think it would have forced WWX to confront and resolve his past in more satisfying ways even if MXTX still makes him break off everything with JC-JYL-YMJ. Hottake, but I think it's spicier if he keeps trying to leave everything in the past but his mistakes are still alive and would like a real apology. With JC there's the whole transfer thing, mucking up who might need to apologize to whom, but with JYL it's very clear and very devastating. Where is all the angst this story could have given me?? No, I'm not going to rewrite MDZS about it 😩 I'm just going to suffer in my Yunmeng Trio feels.

👓 What helps you focus when you write? You're going to use this against me, I know it. I'm gonna be like, "Specs I can't focus." And you're going to go, "Well YOU said this helps you focus so are you doing it???" And I'll be like... "🥺" Not to be all aging-Millennial on main or anything but a shot of hard liquor, wordless music, a clear idea of a scene, and someone waiting to read what I wrote. It's a hard combo to achieve, let's be real. I have written 5k at a time with that combo though, so it's a big winner. @robinade knows nothing motivates me more than someone on discord going 👐🙏. And then I feed them the snippet and then they grade me with emotes. I'm very rewards based, who isn't? They tell you to write for yourself first, but it's always nice if I have an end goal of entertaining someone else as well, otherwise the ideas just stay in my head la-di-da style.

💛 What is the most impactful lesson you’ve learned about writing? I got nothing inspirational to say here. I think a game changer for me was doing this thing with "scenes" but like... as a roadmap. So what I do now that helps me figure out what to write is listing off all the scenes I want to write and a little blurb about those scenes (or a lot of blurb depending on how specific I have it in my mind). It's like an outline, but not very high level. Anyone that reads my stuff lately can see I label my scenes with section titles and that's from this process. It sort of fills in the for the writing advice about how, when you get to the end of one scene, make sure to write the first sentence of the next so you don't get stuck on how to start a scene when you get back to it. This format is really working for me and it's not as cumbersome as an outline (even though for big fics I have those too).

👻 What is your wildest headcanon? HOOOO it's really hard to have a "wild" headcanon in this fandom (MDZS) without someone taking the biggest offense to it. And honestly the word "wild" is doing a lot of work here, it can mean anything. So basically I have a lot headcanons but what's wild enough for this question??? BAM!! JGS uses women as human cauldrons to further his cultivation. And JGY used that knowledge to kill him.

🧡 😎 Alrighty, I think my work here is done. 🌹 🎩

[annalacerda17]

I think Jiang Cheng is a type of Narcissist that's less common, called Victim-Narcissist.

This kind of narcissist sees themselves as victims of the unfairness of life, are incapable of accepting responsibility for the negative consequences of their own actions, and are extremely self-centered and manipulative, something that shapes the way they see themselves in relation to others.

So, while a narcissist is capable of caring about others, they do so in a very self centered way. They care about how they feel in that relationship, and about how the other person' s behavior affects them. In Jiang Cheng's case, I personally think it's quite evident that he cares about Wei Wuxian in this way, that is, what matters to Jiang Cheng is how Wei Wuxian makes him feel, not how Wei Wuxian himself feels.

So, Jiang Cheng was friendless, and his only sources of validation were Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian. Let us not forget how Madam Yu was abusive toward everyone around her, and that she deliberately sabotaged her son's relationship with his father. So the parents weren't sources of validation or comfort.

And yet, when Jiang Yanli died protecting Wei Wuxian, it didn't matter to Jiang Cheng what Jiang Yanli's choice meant and what she intended to do. What mattered to him was how he, Jiang Cheng, felt about her death. And that's because narcissists only care about their own needs in a relationship, their own wants and their own feelings. The other person's feelings don't matter, except in how it affects them, the Narcissist.

We can see the same pattern in his relationship with Wei Wuxian.

As for the whole "sacrificing himself for Wei Wuxian" thing, I'm not sure if that's even what it was. Jiang Cheng was not sound of mind at that particular moment. It was also unclear whether Wei Wuxian was truly in danger. Jiang Cheng was grieving and angry and in panic, and to be honest I don't even think he knew what exactly he was trying to do.

Once he was forced to face the consequences, the loss of his golden core, his reaction shows that he wasn't willing to accept that. A sacrifice isn't really a sacrifice if the person doing the sacrificing is unwilling to accept the consequences.

To me, what happened was that Jiang Cheng acted without thinking (impulsiveness being another trait common in Narcissists), and he may or may not have had Wei Wuxian in mind, and didn't think about the consequences. I think it's even possible he may have been thinking about dying with his family. The one thing Jiang Cheng didn't do was to rationally and consciously decide to sacrifice himself for Wei Wuxian.

I think MXTX wrote Jiang Cheng with full understanding of what is a Victim-Narcissist.

Some of the common traits among narcissists is the feeling of abandonment by a father or father figure (in this case, Madam Yu sabotaged the relationship between father and son, which created this feeling in Jiang Cheng despite it not being factually true), and also a controlling mother, which Madam Yu was.

Another common trait in Narcissists is the imbalance of power in relationships. That is, if the other person does something for them, that's what it should be, but they don't feel the need to do anything for the other person in return. So they're ungrateful. And we can see that in how Jiang Cheng treated the Wens Remnants.

Jiang Cheng's every relationship is about Jiang Cheng alone, with no space for the other person in the relationship to express needs and wants. It's all about what Jiang Cheng wants, always.

It can be seen in his relationship with Jiang Yanli, in his relationship with Wei Wuxian and in his relationship with Jin Ling. Even his relationship with Jiang Fengmian and Madam Yu show some of that, but it's mixed with the need to get parental approval and lack of power in the relationship. In the case of his relationship with Wei Wuxian, his behavior gets validated by the elitist society they are in, and in his relationship with Jiang Yanli, his behavior gets validated by a misogynistic society that thinks it's normal to deny women agency.

* Narcissism is not a mental illness, it's a personality disorder. Not the same thing.

*A Narcissist is perfectly capable of distinguishing right from wrong and good from bad, they just tend not to care.

I have a genuine doubt about Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian’s relationship in the novel. (I just read your post about if a kid jc would defend a kid wwx, but has a little to do with that post).

I remember Jiang Cheng tried to defender Wei Wuxian from his mother, and later he even sacrificed himself for wwx, losing his core in the process. (If there’s more, I don’t remember. It’s been a time since I read the novel).

I really don’t understand why he sacrificed? I get that he thought Wei Wuxian was better than him, but… after everything he did, he just let people jeopardize Wei Wuxian in the end of his first life?…

It was a way to say “everything I owed you is paid”? Was he mad that he did that but in the end Wei Wuxian wasn’t “grateful” even never knowing what Jiang Cheng truly did?…

I think after Jiang Cheng lost his core to “protect” Wei Wuxian, he started to see wwx as a servant and nothing more. Before the attack we saw that they got along very well, but after it seemed like he started to agree more with his mother's ideas about Wei Wuxian being only a servant.

That’s why he was so mad that Jiang Yanli died defending him? He threw Jiang Yanli’s sacrifice away and lead a siege against Wei Wuxian anyway…

Not only he threw his relationship with Wei Wuxian away, but he did not respected his sister’s wish and choice. She knew something was wrong, that Wei Wuxian wouldn’t kill her husband for nothing, and Jiang Cheng didn’t trust her…

I am wrong? I really want your point of view about this. And I’m sorry if you already talked about it, I’m new here. Thank you!

Caring about others, is complicated. For as much as I'm called a hater and anti, I have never denied that Jiang Cheng cared (as lacking as that may have been in a significant way) for Wei Wuxian.

Jiang Cheng did care in some capacity for Wei Wuxian and try. He just didn't put up much effort in the long run to maintain that support when it was a detriment to himself and was spiteful when that care required effort and some sacrifices. Even when he "protected" Wei Wuxian from his mother he was still cowed by her threats to him, and let Wei Wuxian be whipped (and later turned to strangle Wei Wuxian, twice actually, and blame him for his parents deaths).

As for the core issue. Jiang Cheng never expected to give more than what he was expecting for Wei Wuxian. He did not willingly give his core and was resentful about that cost for protecting Wei Wuxian. It cannot be a kindness when he hated what it cost and lashed out years after. He always thought of Wei Wuxian as his servant first and foremost despite being "friends". That is what always would make them eventually part. Ideologically they are nothing alike and that was obvious as soon as their talk about servants children and Jiang Cheng dismissing their worth and ability. He threw his relationship away because he felt entitled to Wei Wuxian as a tool more than a friend. A friend does not have stipulations for their care and love especially when they start forming it as a debt of give and take.

[curiosity-killed]

Lang Qianqiu deserves more love goddammit: a post, unfortunately

This brought to you by the wonderful @veliseraptor & @/yuer on Twitter but also mostly out of spite and the fact that it’s preventing me from writing a very dumb poke-the-bear post abt the entire weird social media culture around The Minors

As always ✨SPOILERS!! SPOILERS EVERYWHERE✨

So first off: when I hit the scene where lqq confronts xl and screams “I will never be like you” I sat up in bed, did a little shimmy of delight, and hissed “fuck yes” at like 2 AM so. Now you have a preview of wtf this train wreck will be

1 ) lqq is a good character

We don’t get a ton of time with lqq because tgcf is 87 side characters running across stage with The Most Interesting Concept constantly one-upping each other before vanishing. But what we do get is, I think, enough to make a pretty compelling story: Lang Qianqiu is a kind and generous prince who is also the sole survivor of the bloody massacre of his entire family, committed by the people dearest to him (both in his belief that Gusohi Fangxin did it and in the reality of An Le’s involvement), who goes on to peacefully lead his fractious nation into a peaceful reign before he ascends as a powerful enough (aka beloved and worshipped enough) god to be ranked among the top heavenly generals. That’s like. Pretty fucking classic protagonist vibes right there.

And, as usual with mxtx’s characters, we get a lot more than this lovely little backstory. In his interactions in canon, lqq is capable of great grief and anger; he is willing to sacrifice himself if it means avenging his murdered family; and he simultaneously holds both great hatred and great respect for his old teacher. And, of course, he winds up raising and taking care of his enemy’s son which shows a remarkable depth of compassion and emotional messiness that I find terribly compelling. He struggles with a simplistic view of justice that is supported by lies told to “protect” him and that is uprooted by the truth and forces him to try to make sense of the world without the guardrails that others installed around him (looking at you mister fangxin sir).

Also I’m stealing my own tweets bc I’m Right but:

*pulls up single barstool to lqq is a good character table* I think it’s interesting & Says Things abt the continued relationship btwn lqq & xl that lqq *didn’t* recognize xl, implying that he left fangxin’s mask in place even when he went to kill him

Like here is the man who killed his family & best friend, who left him abandoned in bloodshed on his 17th bday—& here is also the man who saved his life, who taught him, who lqq looked up to & wanted to be like

Even when lqq *does* recognize xl, he still has so much respect for him paired with that hatred that it’s honestly rlly tragic? Like man. There’s so much grief in lqq’s repeated demands for a duel & insisting it’s fine if xl kills him as long as he doesn’t hold back

*pats lqq pompom* this bb is so sad. And so much more like his teacher than either of them seem to realize or necessarily want

Despite being a pretty minor character, lqq gets a lot of complexity and nuance! Look at this child trying to be grown up while desperately turning to his old master for guidance and “the truth”! Look at him! Be sad!!

2 ) lqq is an excellent parallel to xl

Okay stealing my own tweet again don’t look at me I yell the same shit everywhere

Xl didn’t want lqq to become like him (self-sacrificing, vengeful, alone) but lqq not only became alone, chasing vengeance, & willing to sacrifice himself for revenge—he also became kind, open-minded, & remorseful!! & he still clearly respects xl @ novel end 🙃🙃

We all know hc’s “they’re not very alike at all” and yeah sure baby go support your man but narratively, there’s a lot of importance given to cycles, parallels, and foils in mxtx’s writing and most explicitly (compared to mdzs, haven’t read svss) in tgcf. For example, *gestures at beefleaf, gestures at Xianle Trio vs Wuyogn Crew, gestures at Xie Lian & Jun Wu’s whole uh. Deal.* And while I’d argue xl and lqq are part of a triumvirate rather than a pair, we’re not including mister three-face in this conversation so just looking at xl and lqq:

Both adored and sheltered crown princes

Both taught by a guoshi who was seeking to prevent the repetition of their own tragedies and in their efforts, lied/omitted information and failed to protect their charge from tragedy

Both were betrayed* by their closest friends

Both are the last living members of their respective royal families

Both caught the interest of supernatural beings from a young age

Etc etc I’m getting v bored and distracted writing this so moving on

Most importantly to me, we have their betrayal by a very close and adored mentor and how they react. The confrontation I mention at the start of this shitshow is really imo one of the most important scenes in the novel because it a) illustrates the differences in xl and Jun Wu and b) sort of gives you a preview of how xl ultimately wins

So a) Jun Wu and Xie Lian both take a talented, marked-for ascension young prince under their wing. Jun Wu sees himself in the boy and obsesses over shaping him into Jun Wu’s own image in the belief that this will make him the perfect heir. Jun Wu pushes his chosen heir into situations where Xie Lian is repeatedly harmed in an effort to show that the common people are fickle and cruel and don’t deserve his compassion and care.

Meanwhile, Xie Lian is reluctantly roped into mentoring his prince due to his inability to stand aside when he feels he could do something to prevent hurt or injustice befalling another (simultaneously his great strength and great weakness! God I love him). Xie Lian tries to teach his student to believe in and care for the common people and not to sacrifice himself (see: flashback convo re:taking the force of the sword strike into his own body).

When Xie Lian refuses to bend in the shape Jun Wu demands, Jun Wu bashes his head into the wall. When Lang Qianqiu cries “I will never be like you!”, Xie Lian laughs and says “Good!”.

B) this of course feeds directly into foreshadowing! Like Lang Qianqiu’s bold words, xl ultimately refuses to become like his mentor and remains defiant even when it would stop him from being hurt. Xl beats lqq and says so what if I tricked you, so what if I lied, I still won. Naturally, xl beats Jun Wu not through standard swordplay but by using a trick he learned while forced to busk and wander the earth alone and unlucky for centuries.

…okay so I have fully forgotten what I was actually saying here! Anyway!

Like Xie Lian, Lang Qianqiu spends a time consumed with the need for vengeance, hunting his enemy and rejecting the heavens. And like Xie Lian, he winds up caring for his enemy’s “son” and trying to both comfort him and maintain what’s left of Qi Rong’s life force despite having previously been hellbent on destroying him—bc he sees the impact it has on another person. In the end, he even gives a gift to Xie Lian—his mentor, his role model, and the one who killed his father—that was once given to him as a symbol of unexpected kindness. Sound familiar?

But, importantly, and contradictory to what I have been yelling abt but whatever it’s 12:30 am, Lang Qianqiu is not a direct mirror of Xie Lian but a closing of a vital loop in the story. Lqq is very similar to xl (I will die on this hill!! Only I won’t bc I’m stronger than y’all and will keep swinging these pots and pans) but bc xl tries to do better and keep lqq from suffering the way xl has, lqq is able to have a gentler and more optimistic path forward. He’s proof that even a small act of kindness or even kindness to only one person still matters and has a ripple effect that can’t be seen when you’re in the middle of it—a thread started with xl giving the coral pearl to Lang Ying and closed with Lang Qianqiu returning the pearl to Xie Lian.

So I have no idea if any of this is coherent or compelling but I meant to be asleep two hours ago and the points are:

A) Lang Qianqiu is good actually

B) parallels!!!

C) look ive already started another wip about Lang Qianqiu and Xie Lian and I didn’t want this but no one else wrote it so now I have to so pls just accept this as a warning

*sort of air quotes around this for Xie Lian bc frankly Mu Qing was right & Xie Lian kicked feng xin out BUT on the other hand, it was experienced as a betrayal and we also again have all of Jun Wu’s shit so it evens out

[baoshan-sanren]

Hi, I just finished SV and I Loved it! I have a question though that irks me and I'd love to hear you opinion on it. It's said in the novel that LBH knew no kindness except from his mother and then NYY & SY!SQQ. It seems to me a little like he fell in love with SY's kindness and not really with his personality. He didn't fall in love with NYY's kindness so it could also be an authority thing. My q is, do you think LBH would fall in love w any other Shizun who showed him the slightest kindness?

Okay bear with my nonsense here for a minute because, aside from making fun of everyone and everything, SVSSS is a pretty good study of what happens when reader expectations meet real situations and real flesh and blood people, and just how unrealistic most of them turn out to be. We see PIDW and LBH in SVSSS via mirror of only SY’s perception and his preconceived notions, but we’re also bound to only see SVSSS and SY via mirror of our own perception and with our own preconceived notions (and boy, do a lot of people miss that about SVSSS completely even though SY the judgmental reader and all his baggage are right there). How many chapters does it take for SY to admit that he hasn’t been really viewing LBH as his own person, but a fictional character he had only gotten to know through airplane’s bad writing? I remember how fucking frustrated I kept getting the first time I read SVSSS because SY kept that picture of LBH (the one we never met bc we never read 300+ chapters of airplane’s novel like SY did) firm in his mind despite all evidence that they were not the same person. Who is it that said “compared to the dullest human being actually walking about on the face of the earth and casting his shadow there, the most brilliantly drawn character in a novel is but a bag of bones?" SY’s whole issue with PIDW is that the novel sucked. That most of the characters were one-dimensional and unrealistic, and that even his own scum-villain character had no story/background that would justify his attitude or behavior towards LBH. We only get to see SJ as a person with a history, and grievances, and a boatload of unaddressed trauma because SY digs up and improves all those storylines that airplane had left out. But even knowing that, SY still keeps seeing LBH through the lens of his own preconceived notions, and keeps assigning him motivations that LBH clearly doesn’t have. So I guess my thing is, if it took SY nearly a decade of flesh and blood contact with LBH to figure out that all of his expectations were wrong and inaccurate, can we (the readers of SVSSS) ever view LBH accurately? 

Anyway, not to write an essay (too late) but I guess if I were to speculate on the subject via my own subjective interpretations, I would say that airplane wrote a pretty shitty stallion novel for $$ during which LBH fell for NYY for her “kindness” but right off the bat in SVSSS, we see that NYY does very little except managing to make LBH’s life harder. Still, despite being a character that solely consists of bouncy breasts and questionable life choices in PIDW, she does seem to harbor genuine affection for LBH, and PIDW LBH, who has not gotten affection since his adoptive mother passed, is likely to have latched on to any affection, no matter how destructive it turns out to be, for some self-preservation of his self-esteem and self-worth. Obviously not the healthiest way to obtain either, but hardly unexpected (and we see him doing the same thing with literally every female character in PIDW - Freud would have a field day with just a quarter of this novel). Again, we only know PIDW LBH through SY’s perception, and SY is clearly not the most objective witness, but I find it hard to believe that PIDW LBH ever truly loved any one of the 300+ women in his harem. There is no indication (in what we get from airplane’s writing) that he trusts any of them, and it even seems as if all the harem infighting served as a means to keep them from focusing too hard on LBH as anything other than a prize to be obtained. I mean clearly, PIDW was not meant to be that deep, and we don’t get to read it, so there’s no use speculating much. (I’m sure you noticed my theories are all psychology/trauma centric, which is my bread and butter, and subjective as fuck, so there’s half my point made).

As to whether I think LBH would fall in love with a different shizun who showed him kindness? If kindness is the only factor, I don’t think it’s likely. After all, the 300+ women in his harem in PIDW have all probably showed him some kindness at one time or another. In that respect, SY is certainly not special. There are theories about LBH not actually being sexually attracted to women in PIDW at all, extrapolating on the idea that a more supportive and loving environment during his development years has allowed him to grow up without repressing many things he has clearly repressed in PIDW, his sexuality included. That theory, I suppose, could support the idea that LBH could have just as easily fallen in love with a different man in his immediate vicinity who showed him kindness?

Idk how much I buy into any that; like I said, PIDW was never meant to be that deep, and SVSSS is just full of loose threads I love to yank on (always aware I’ll never see where they lead without an access to MXTX’s brain). I think we’re meant to view PIDW for what it is - a poorly written story for $$ with cardboard cutout characters that, once permeated with “real flesh and blood humans,” turns out to be nothing like the story that the reader (SY) expected to find. And since there’s the same degree of separation between PIDW and SVSSS, as there is between SVSSS and us (the readers), speculating on who LBH might attach himself to if SY was someone else, and how his story might go under any other circumstances, is bound to be as accurate as SY’s predictions concerning PIDW LBH, which turned out to be (as we clearly find out in SVSSS), inaccurate as fuck :)

[veliseraptor]

Hi lise....How are you? If you don't mind me asking, who are your favorite “villains” (or antagonists) in all of MXTX novels? (Whether you want to do a ranking or just write out in no particular order)...Sorry if you've answered this question before....

I am stressed, depressed, and holding off a mental breakdown but keeping it together so far! and distractions in the form of thinking about my villain beloveds help.

asdlskjadf oh man. so it’s not quite “all of them” but it is... “several.” no ranking here because rankings are hard, so here’s in no particular order my personal greatest antagonist hits from mxtx’s novels

(this post will contain hella spoilers just to let you guys know)

1. He Xuan. I just finished (well, for a given value of ‘just’) rereading the Black Water Arc again and ahhhhhhh. Ahhhhhhhhhhh. I love He Xuan so much, I love everything he chooses to do, I love the fact that he has a choice between revenge and a friendship he does seem to value and ultimately still chooses revenge, I love his cold anger, I love the part where he just fuckin...rips Shi Wudu’s head off with his bare hands, RIP Water Master but that was pretty badass.

But yeah, I think what most draws me toward him is that...pull, where you can see him trying to give Shi Qingxuan an out, and he’s not going to abandon his revenge, would never, but he will bend it just a little, or he would...but ultimately Shi Qingxuan fails the tests he gives them and that’s it.

Also “you called the wrong name” will probably live in my head, as they say, rent free, with lines from literature that stick with me.

2. Xue Yang. Obviously. I feel like...I don’t even know how to talk about him here without repeating myself. Love at first sight and I never looked back. It only got worse. There’s a whole lot of buttons that he’s hitting all at once and...god, idk, okay, I’ve written more fics about him in a year and change than I wrote in the entire Silmarillion fandom between 2009-2021, and some of those are long. It’s a lot.

3. Jin Guangyao. I feel like I don’t always talk enough about Jin Guangyao and that’s mostly because I feel like other people have said the things I’d want to say but better already? But...god, love him. He’s such a psychological mess of paranoia and anxiety and insecurity, he’s so up in his head, constantly thinking about three or four things at once, is he enjoying the experience? Not necessarily.

I’m always going to be a sucker for a clever schemer and Jin Guangyao’s got that going for him, and I also really enjoy a good juxtaposition between seeming fragility and insane endurance/ability to keep going well past the point it’s reasonable. His drive to escape his origins, to prove himself, to gain an approval that’s always going to be just out of reach...I’m love him. Very very much.

4. Shen Jiu. Does he count, considering he’s mostly SIr Not Appearing In This Novel with the exception of the extras? I’m counting him. It feels very silly and also very me that my favorite SVSSS character is this guy because like...he’s not even technically present in the novel proper as an actual person? Even Xiao Xingchen at least gets a corpse cameo.

Whatever, I’m counting him anyway. I was going to be like “I know he’s awful” but come on, this is a list of antagonists and I love characters dealing horribly with their trauma and also passing their trauma on to others in the worst way, and also characters who come to bad ends, and also characters who will see people thinking the worst of them and go “fine! sure! I will do nothing to correct these assumptions at all because fuck it, if people are going to hate me might as well go all in.”

5. Jun Wu. I know, I know! I feel like this is maybe the most unpopular of mine actually but I have a thing for...antagonists who are disappointed idealists who are now trying to ruin everyone else’s day/life to prove their point while at the same time (this is a read, but I think I can support it) wanting to be proved wrong, but also absolutely certain that they won’t. And his interactions with Xie Lian in book four as Bai Wuxiang are...well. they sure do hit a nail shaped like my character dynamic kinks right on the head

and I’ll talk about this more in my favorite TGCF moments answer that’s forthcoming (I’m just finishing the book first so I don’t forget anything!), but I also find the conclusion to his arc very satisfying in ways that I very seldom get in media.

honorable mentions: Ling Wen (honorable mention only because I don’t know that she actually counts, she’s only an ‘antagonist’ for a hot minute and she doesn’t actually do anything to our protagonists to seriously hurt them), Shen Qingqiu’s internalized homophobia (honestly probably the biggest antagonist of SVSSS, lbr), Xie Lian on a rampage, He Xuan’s skeleton fish.

I do also have a soft spot for Bingge even though we only see him for a hot minute. he’s just awful and a disaster and I love that for him.

are we counting Jiang Cheng as an antagonist? because I don’t but if we were he’d be on this list too.

honestly the only antagonists I actively dislike (as opposed to just find relatively uninteresting) are Jin Guangshan and Jin Zixun.

[vrishchikawrites]

What do you think WWX ate in the Burial Mounds? I read "Teen Project to Change the World" and the author wrote their own version because MXTX just said in an interview that they left it out because it was incredibly gross (or something like that).

Some fans figured he resorted to cannibalism out of desperation and determination to live. While some fans gave ideas of plants that may be able to survive in such a harsh environment, if possible. But considering that MXTX admitted that it was very very bad, I'm thinking cannibalism isn't so far off and that makes WWX even more of a tragic character who resorts to laughing and smiling just to mask all his pain.

I've spent more time trying to find the previous posts where I discussed this in detail and more efficiently than on typing out the reply. Tumblr, you suck.

As for my thoughts on it:

1. I feel there must be something in the Burial Mounds for him to eat, like tree roots, bugs, insects, birds, and things like this.

2. Unless WWX had access to very fresh corpses, he couldn't have consumed anything there without getting some sort of disease. Not only because of the bacteria and all but also because proteins and the type that one would consume in such a situation. Consuming anything from human dead there would've killed him faster.

3. Bone marrow is an option because it lasts for a few months under ideal conditions. But again, still needs to be relatively fresh.

It is still possible that he was forced to consume and somehow survived. In that case, his mental health would deteriorate rapidly after a few years/decades due to the aforementioned proteins. We didn't see the consequences because the conflict killed him sooner and then he got a new body.

So, I'm of two minds. The implications are there but idk if cannibalism is actually realistic in this case. In most cannibalistic societies, people consume fresh and some communities do develop prions diseases.

So, given WWX's relatively good health post his BM stint, I'm uncertain if that fits. But the way he tortured WC and his partner... it does imply some things.

[ouyangzizhensdad]

So one thing I am confused about. I see a lot of takes on how Wwx acted like a gay stereotype in the first few chapters. And this is pointed out as a mark of his homophobia (as in he's homophobic because he thinks that's how a gay person would act). But, from context of the book, it seems to me he's weaponizing what *society* will think a gay man would act like to get out of what he views as a dangerous situation? As in, to me he's deliberately playing up stereotypes... (1/2)

(2/2) to make people uncomfortable and leave him alone. This isn't to say he's not internalized some stuff. Working through those feelings is a major part of the book. But it feels like people seem to be missing the fact that he's using how people are uncomfortable with Mxy as a means to get out of what he sees as a tight situation. Rather like how we get a woman using 'lady problems' as an excuse to make men uncomfortable and leave her alone. Or am I completely of the mark?

Oh anon, dear anon, how did you know I’ve been meaning to write a post about this since I’ve first been introduced to these takes? Have you taken a trip to the dark recesses of my mind lately (or maybe spied on my drafts)? 

Before we get started, I do want to address the fact that the ExR translation, which is generally how international fans first access the novel, uses terms/ways of phrasing things about cut-sleeves that make it seem more connoted than what you can see in the original chinese, thereby colouring how we may perceive WWX’s opinions on cutsleeves (since he is the narrator). If you compare pumpkinpaix’s translation of chapter 2 to that of ExR’s, you may understand what I mean (I personally went and checked the original with my limited chinese skills and pumpkinpaix’s is the most faithful translation imo).

Compare and contrast: 

Pumpkinpaix’s translation: “Thank goodness, this body had not been born with a strange appearance, only strange tastes. Here was a grown man who not only wore a full face of rouge and powder, but wore it in such an ugly fashion!“

ExR scans’ translation: “Fortunately, the body wasn’t born this way—it was only one of the owner’s penchants. He was no-doubt a man, yet he was covered with makeup (not to mention, badly applied makeup). Ugh, how unbearable!“

And another: 

Pumpkinpaix’s translation: “Not only chased, but banished with great shame: for Mo Xuanyu was a cutsleeve who even dared to recklessly molest and harass his peers. With this public scandal, along with the mediocrity of his talent and the insignificance of his cultivation progress, there was no reason to let him stay in the family any longer.

To make matters worse, no one knew what kind of shock he’d suffered, but after he returned, he seemed to have gone completely mad. He had good days and bad—it was as if he had been scared witless. After reading to this point, Wei Wuxian furrowed his brow. Being just a cutsleeve was one thing, but a lunatic as well! No wonder his face was all covered in powder and rouge like an old hanged ghost, and no wonder no one found the bloody array surprising.”

ExR scans’ translation: “On top of that, he was driven back shamefully.Mo XuanYu was homosexual, and had enough nerve to harass the other disciples. The scandal was revealed to the public and, as he had few achievements in terms of cultivation, there were no reasons for him to stay in the clan.Like adding frost to snow, aside from the event itself, when Mo XuanYu returned, he often behaved in a crazy manner, almost as if his life was scared out of him.The story was almost too complex to be put into words. Wei WuXian’s eyebrows twitched.Not only a lunatic, a homosexual lunatic as well. That explained why there were enough rouge and powder on his face to make him look like a hanged ghost, and also why nobody was surprised at the large, bloody array on the ground.”

See how the latter translation makes it seem as if WWX were thinking that being a gay lunatic is worse than being a lunatic, and that him being a ‘gay lunatic’ explains his appearance; whereas, in the former, it appears to be more of a comment about how MXY was perceived by his family as a disgrace, and underlines that the fact he is a “lunatic” explains how ‘usual’ his appearance and the shack’s disarray were to his cousin and his lackeys.

But to address your actual point, I think saying that WWX weaponizes what society think of how a gay would act is still an oversimplification. WWX is in fact weaponizing the very specific nature of MXY’s reputation, which includes him being known to be:

a lunatic

a cutsleeve

a molester/harasser

The fact that people even suggest that this is how WWX views gay people is ludicrous to me because of the context in which it is presented in the novel. WWX is not trying to “pass” as MXY by attempting what he believes to be an authentic performance of being a gay man. WWX, from the get-go, acts in public in ways that are incompatible with what he knows of MXY. When he first gets out of the shack, he acts in ways he knows are contrary to how MXY would have acted. 

“Thinking to recover the face he’d [A-Tong] just lost, he jumped over and, like one would reprimand a dog, waved his hand and scolded, “Shoo, shoo! Go back! What did you come out for!”

Even towards a beggar or a fly, one wouldn’t be more unpleasant. These servants had very likely acted like this towards Mo Xuanyu in the past. After all, he never resisted, so they could be this unscrupulously reckless. Wei Wuxian, with a light kick, knocked A’Tong head over heels, laughing, “Now, who is it you think you’re insulting?”

Finished kicking, he followed the sound of the hubbub, walking towards the east.“ [Chapter 3 ]

Instead, WWX weaponizes MXY’s reputation (the trifecta of lunatic-cutsleeve-harasser) whenever he needs it to either 1) get the information he needs/test a theory, 2) manipulate people into certain actions 3) quickly get out of a sticky situation. Again, it is not meant to be an authentic representation of what he believes to be a gay man: it is a targeted attack with expected results. 

Let’s take for instance the East Hall Scene at Mo Mansion. WWX goes there, and slips into a lunatic persona which, from what we can infer by the Mo Family’s reaction, is not even a close performance of MXY’s “lunacy”. At this point, WWX is trying to test out if publicly humiliating the Mo Family will be enough to fulfill his part of the contract MXY forced upon him. It is the first time he brings up MXY’s being a cutsleeve, and he does so in the process of trying to cause disgrace by implying his cousin might not have had pure intentions towards him. The text makes it clear that he is only doing so to attack the Mo Family’s face, implying unspeakable designs upon MXY by his cousin. 

Unexpectedly, Wei Wuxian spoke again, “Speaking of, he not only shouldn’t have stolen my things, he really shouldn’t have gone to steal them in the middle of the night. Who doesn’t know, this son here likes men! He might not know shame, but I know not to tie my shoes in a melon patch!”

Madam Mo gasped in horror, shouting, “What are you saying in front of your village elders! How  can you have so little face; A’Yuan is your younger cousin!”

When it came to wild displays of atrocious behavior, Wei Wuxian was a master. In the past when he ran wild, he still had to mind appearances for he couldn’t let others accuse him of having no family upbringing, but now since he was a lunatic anyways, what face did he need! He could go straight to making a scene, acting on whatever pleased him. He straightened his neck and stated with righteous confidence, “He clearly knows he’s my younger cousin, and he still didn’t try to avoid arousing suspicion—exactly who has less face?! If you don’t want any, fine, but don’t spoil my innocence! I still want to find a good man!!!” [Chapter 3]

It is also important to remember MXY’s reputation as a molester/harrasser, which WWX leans into at certain points in the novel (for instance when he gets ‘caught’ trying to steal LWJ’s seal to exit the Cloud Recesses and pretends to have been spying on him bathing to try to get kicked out instead). I do not consider that WWX actually believes at face-value the accusations; like LWJ, he is wary of judging without having all the information, having himself suffered groundless accusations (and, surprise surprise, it turns out the accusations were fabricated by JGY! btw, for all the people out there who say MXTX is homophobic because she wrote a gay character who’s a molester...... i am begging you to get some reading comprehension, even store-bought is fine at this point). And if people think MXTX did not mean to emphasize the importance of that reputation, I ask them to please pay attention to what is said before WWZ implies JC is trying to flirt with him/flirts with LWJ later on in the novel (in front, as well, of many of the Juniors). Notice how we are getting the trifecta again?: 

Even after thinking it over multiple times, Jiang Cheng still couldn’t accept the fact [that Zidian had not worked]. He pointed at Wei Wuxian and scowled, “Who on Earth are you?”

Finally, a meddlesome bystander added a word to the conversation. He coughed, “Jiang-zongzhu, you might have not paid attention to these things and thus remained unaware. Mo Xuanyu was part the LanlingJin Sect’s… Ahem, he used to be a foreign disciple of the Jin Sect. But, because his spiritual powers were low and he didn’t work hard in his studies, and also had that… He harassed a peer and was thrown out of the LanlingJin Sect. I’ve also heard that he lost his marbles? In my opinion, he was probably bitter from being unable to cultivate using the correct path and ventured off onto the wrong one.”

Jiang Cheng asked, “That? What do you mean?” 

“That… As in that…” 

Someone couldn’t help but comment, “The cut-sleeve penchant!” 

Jiang Cheng’s eyebrows twitched. His eyes which stared at Wei Wuxian seemed more disgusted than before. [Chapter 9]

The text also makes it clear that WWX is drawing upon more than just “Eww gay!” when he’s weaponizing MXY’s reputation to try to get away from JC and LWJ. He’s also thinking about JC’ inferiority complex and LWJ’s (perceived) serious nature. 

“Then,” Jiang Cheng replied coldly, “why is Lan-er-gongzi going to such great lengths to protect an unimportant person such as him?”

Out of the blue, Wei Wuxian suppressed laughter could be heard.

“Jiang-zongzhu, umm, I’ll feel very troubled if you keep on bothering me like this.”

Jiang Cheng’s eyebrow twitched again. His instincts told him that this person would definitely not say anything pleasant next.

"Thank you for being so enthusiastic, but your thoughts are quite off. Even though I am attracted to men, I don’t like just any type of man, much less follow anyone who waves at me. I’m not interested in men like you.”

Wei Wuxian was purposely trying to disgust him. Jiang Cheng had always hated being defeated when compared with others, no matter how pointless the comparison was. If anyone said that he was not as good as someone else, he’d get angered and not think about anything else until he won against them. As expected, Jiang Cheng’s face darkened.

“Oh, really? Then, may I ask which type you’re interested in?

“Which type?” he replied, “Well, I am very much attracted to people like Hanguang-jun.” 

Lan Wangji could not tolerate this sort of frivolous and foolish joke at all. If he felt disgusted, he would definitely draw a line between them and keep his distance. Disgusting two people at once—this was killing two birds with one stone!” [Chapter 9]

I won’t go through all the examples and moments in the novel (even in forced-voluntary self-isolation it is too much to ask out of me), but I hope my point was illustrated well enough with just these! Thank you again for your ask, it forced me to finally write it all down!

[spockandawe]

Than you so much, spockandawe for answering my ask. Do you mind if I ask a few questions again?

Who is your favorite main couple in mxtx novels (wangxian or hualian or bingqiu)? And why?

Who are your fav side couple (don't have to be canon) in mxtx novels (in each of the 3 novels)? And why?

Sorry if you have answered the questions before...

No worries whatsoever! I love talking about fandom things like this :D

Hmmm. I think... I'm going to have to go with hualian as my favorite main couple. It's a really tight race with bingqiu, but the metaphor I've used before is that svsss hits me like I'm eating a bag of doritos, where shh yes okay i know it's lighter on nutritional content than I want it to be, but i can't stop eating and if you try to take it away I will FIGHT YOU-- But tgcf in general and hualian in particular are like a big fancy dinner, and no matter how much i LIKE my doritos, I still have to admit that a real dinner has more substance to it.

I think that a big element of it really is mxtx developing as a writer, and that it's unrealistic to expect a novel she wrote when she was barely an adult to compare to where she is now, and by any standard, tgcf is ambitious as HELL, but that's not all there is to it. I think that for me in particular, there something about the difference between Luo Binghe falling in love as a teenager and achieving love in his mid-twenties and Hua Cheng falling in love comparably young and staying devoted and steadfast without any external support for eight hundred years. I can conceptualize the passage of eight years, but trying to picture eight HUNDRED years of that kind of single-minded adoration just leaves me reeling. And it opens the door to intense gestures of devotion that bingqiu just never had TIME for, like the statues.

There's also something for both these ships that doesn't wangxian doesn't have as much of (which knocked it out of the running ssfdf) and that's that regardless of gong/shou dynamics, there is an intensely submissive element to way that Luo Binghe and Hua Cheng love. And like... that really, really does it for me. And looking at it now, i think that's the real final deciding factor in tipping me in favor of hualian. Luo Binghe begs Shen Qingqiu to choose him, using any and all methods at his disposal. He's 200% down to be as shameless as it takes to get what he wants, and I love it.

But I just DIE at the way Hua Cheng is ready to tie himself into knots to avoid inconveniencing Xie Lian in any way. He's the ruler of a city and lives in a lavish palace, but is completely down to stay in puqi shrine because that's what Xie Lian wants. Xie Lian is part of a heavenly contingent that invades his city, and steals his prisoner and bURNS HIS HOUSE DOWN, and Hua Cheng is furious........ because when Xie Lian consciously decided to jump in front of Hua Cheng's sword, he got hit with Hua Cheng's sword. And it mean I SCREAMED in Mount Tong'lu, when after so much dedication and service, Hua Cheng decides NOT to remove the paralyzing talisman from Xie Lian's body! It makes me appreciate the depths of how much he's FEELING when we see his self-control finally waver! When we get to see those little moments of fear! I can't exactly say that choosing hualian over bingqiu was an EASY choice, but it was the CLEAR choice for me, hahaha

And my favorite side ship....

Oh man, I have no idea how I'm going to explain this, but...... moshang. I just. I love them.

And see, I don't think mxtx even did that great of a job writing them, or at least she didn't spend enough energy addressing the whole 'hmm, casual violence as a display of affection does not actually work with humans, aight' thing. There's still more... fear than I would like at the end of canon, when I think a quick abrupt turnaround for mbj would have legit been appropriate, and if anyone can recognize the difference between his appearance and his actual thoughts, it should be sqh

But also.... this relationship hits so many of my buttons, even if mxtx kind of like, set the microwave timer, and fan creators had to come along and actually hit START.

The shameful truth........ (afdhfj not actually shameful) is that if I had to pick one mxtx character and be like 'it me', i would have a hard time justifying anyone but shang qinghua. The last time i reread the extras and saw the bit about how mbj's cold face was a gift from shang qinghua to his favorite character, I was legit like 'YES, QUEEN!' And in a transmigration story like this, an author being loved by their own character is just THE most indulgent, wonderful thing!

And as far as canon plot goes, one, I VERY much want to write some actual in-depth thoughts about mbj's trauma and baggage from being imprisoned by huan hua palace when he was just a toddler, and realizing that his dad was... not going to protect him from his uncle. I want to pore over that lingering fear and lack of trust, and a gradual swooning over one of the most nonthreatening men around, and terrible (mutual) communication skills leading to a near-fatal falling out and a miracle save. I want to scream about how he puts ALL his faith in shang qinghua to protect him from his uncle, the bogeyman of his youth, and COMPLETELY neglects to warn or inform shang qinghua in any way, and shang qinghua loses like ten years of his life to the stress, but manages to pull it off in the end.

This ship DOES embody some of the things I like most about wangxian, especially the part where two people of intensely different temperaments still manage to build up a deep understanding. Now, wangxian gets messy in large part thanks to external forced, while these two manage to fail at everything, starting with basic communication, all on their own, but like.... I like dumbassery..... these two endear themselves to me XD

[myfriendsarerealidiots]

Since the TGCF donghua came out a week or so ago and the SVSSS one is almost ending, I’m still very much hungover with MXTX so time for a decently long ramble.

Let’s. Talk. About. MXTX. And. Flashbacks.

Now, do I enjoy flashbacks? Absolutely..not.

Do I think it’s a cheat way to tell stories in the past? You bet your ass I do.

But. Do I understand why they’re being used? Yep.

I previously mentioned here, that my first exposure to any of MXTX’s work was through ‘The Untamed.’ Which was basically a flashback for three-forths of it’s duration. I hated it so much because it introduced me to the current situation of Lan Zhan, Jiang Cheng and the newly reincarnated Wei Ying and then completely forgets about that for the next 30 or so episodes.

Now, I’m not your typical viewer per se, I think that I look at things a little too much and was able to infer most of what happened in Wei Ying’s past from just the first few episodes of flashback. Therefore, I was extremely boreded out of my wits as I treaded through the remainder with my only encouragement being reaching the end of the flashback. Which sucked because upon reading the novel for MDZS, it was way less flashback that the webdrama and I enjoyed it even more then.

Ok, moving onto the next novel in the line~ actually wait let’s not just yet because after I finished MDZS, I read TGCF in little under 2 weeks. As much as I absolutely love the story of TGCF, I also think it is the worst offender of the flashback issue I have with MXTX minus ‘The Untamed’ which can just be its own category.

Instead, lemme chat for a bit about SVSSS or Scum Villain—the first, shortest, and funniest novel written by MXTX.

I just want to say outright—Scum Villain doesn’t have any flashbacks. All of BingHe’s childhood? That wasn’t a flashback because we had current-day BingHe interacting with it. QingQiu? His story was explained by..the transmigrated QingQiu.

Shen QingQiu is the narrator of Scum Villain. Everything is from his perspective which 1. Makes everything hilarious af and 2. Is very straightforward. He is a straightforward thinker and therefore, besides his occasional internal panic attacks and anything that has to do with Post-Abyss BingHe, everything he thinks about is surface level. No complex depressions like in TGCF which I’ll touch on later. No weird intertwining relationships between characters either. And that all makes the story very forward in a sense. The only direction it goes in is forward, it doesn’t go backwards to look at the past.

Ah, time for my favorite out of the 3, TGCF or Tian Guang Ci Fu. Did anyone tell you that it has 2 entire books devoted to flashbacks? Cause no one told me. Anyways, TGCF. The story of a Ghost King who stal—I mean loves a God over 800 years.

Firstly, I want to say that book 2 was completely pointless. Everything described in that book was already mentioned in past conversations or implied through dialogue. I guess it’s important if you take it as context for book 4 which is where all the angsty stuff happens but for the most part, you can probably skip book 2 and still understand most of the lore of this story.

While reading book 2, if I’m not mistaken, the only thing I had in my mind was ‘This kid is probably Hua Cheng, what did Xie Lian do to switch their luck?’ And that was it.

When I got to book 4, however, was when all the tears started coming out.

Before I continue, I want to say that I had no knowledge of any plot elements of TGCF past Hua Cheng and Xie Lian getting together in the end.

Now then, when Xie Lian freed that little ghost fire, I started crying in realization especially after the words they shared. When it stayed with him as he got himself drunk in despair, when it cried for him as he got stabbed at the mercy of the ones he wanted to protect and when it disappeared, each time it made me cry because it hurt so much. And it got worse as Xie Lian became the White-Clothed Calamity and he donned the smiley-face mask. Layer by layer, it built up my emotions and eventually I was just left with a soggy pillow.

^^excuse my ramble there but I think that despite the flashback element to it, book 4 is one of the saddest moments in all of her(?) work.

At the end of all this, I still kinda hate flashbacks if it’s like book 2 of TGCF or ‘The Untamed’ but some are kinda worth reading.

Anyways, thanks for reading my ramble. I hope I didn’t take up too much of your feed.

Oh! Right. If you guys have any HuaLian wallpapers without them...kissing can you send them to me? I’m trying to find one for my ipad that won’t get me disowned for being a fujoshi. P.S I wrote this quite a while ago and forgot to post it lol. The tgcf and svsss donghuas have already finished and s3 of the mdzs one has a trailer released as of me posting this.

[mousehole5000]

more tgcf chapters 143-173 lets goooooo

PEI MING BOO HISS except actually okay he’s mostly funny i think but still boo hiss

“hey who’s this guy who’s really pissed at you?” “oh thats my sword. i broke it.” alright then!

i think i need to go back and reread the banyue pass arc bc im still confused as to whats going on with banyue and pei su

“Banyue dropped from the sky with two pots raised. Without a word, she plummeted with the mouths of the pots facing down, trapping and detaining the shocked Ming’guang and the roaring Ke Mo within.” - THATS MY GIRL

“It must be known that, to heavenly officials, it certainly was more than natural for kingdoms of the mortal realm to fight and annihilate one another; the acts of these plays progressing on endlessly. But when it came their own turn, it was often hard to let things go. If one must stand in the same court as the one who annihilated their own kingdom, and that man cavorted in the heavens, exceedingly flashy, then it must be vexing.” - hmmmm!!

“I’ve spoken too many words in this lifetime. What are you referring to?” - okay to be fair thats a mood

okay its nice to get some pei ming backstory and its funny that he and xie lian are bonding but also still whenever pei ming interacts with a female character my hackles rise like a cat lol

“Xie Lian watched as Banyue thought really hard before cheerfully pulling out a few long, wine-red scorpion-snakes, and putting them into the bubbling pot.” - THATS MY GIRL

“Although “smell” was something colourless and formless, the instant Banyue removed the pot cover, it was as if some mysterious physical object had twisted all the air around the mouth of that pot. The group stared at the sight within the pot for a long time. Their pupils reflected an endless, bottomless darkness; like it could pull them into the abyss. No words could describe the sentiment expressed within their eyes. A moment later, Xie Lian patted Banyue’s shoulder and gave a thumbs-up.” - like father-figure like daughter-figure. amazing.

“However, what if one day mortals discovered something completely new that ran faster than horses? Then, when this new invention overtook horses, worshippers of this heavenly official who controlled horses would inevitably decrease. Such heavenly officials, flashing by like shooting stars, made up the majority of the heavens.” - obsessed with this, genuinely. life and change. worship and its purpose. my religious studies diploma on my wall is screaming at me rn. ALSO i am once again thinking about celebrities

“...” It was only then that Pei Ming seemed to notice, and started to contemplate this question. A moment later, he answered, “A habit. In a dark, creepy place like this, isn’t it normal to hold women in your arms, to comfort them and calm their fears?” “I’m sorry, but I wasn’t scared,” Banyue said.” - BANYUE I LOVE YOU. I MISSED YOU SO MUCH. god this takes me back to every college party i ever went to

LING WEN BACKSTORY????? shoeseller chosen for godhood bc she wrote a political essay and got arrested...... and now she’s face to face with the official who appointed her..... do go on.....

“Ling Wen laughed out loud, seeming to be enraged, and her voice dropped. “Very well! You said I couldn’t reach that high. Then, might I ask you: had the prominence of the Palace of Jing Wen at its peak ever reached even the knees of my Palace of Ling Wen??” - GET HIM!!!! BOO HISS JING WEN

“Compared to you, I’m not that bad,” Ling Wen said. “You’d personally order me to stay in the Palace of Jing Wen until midnight, then turn around and say I shamelessly hang around ‘til late to harass you. Words murder without form; I was much nicer responding with blatant violence.” - ling wen im love you..... also this bit... feels Real

BLOOD RAIN BLOOD RAIN BLOOD RAIN!! FLOWER PETALS TRANSFORMATION!!! see hua cheng? look as how cool it can be when you leave the story for a little while!! bc then you get to return and make an entrance!!

“Not only can you bring forth bloody rain, you can also make flowers shower. I didn’t know that. How fun!” - cute!! and in that moment we were all xie lian

“Everyone was stunned by his deed, and Ling Wen arduously gave him a thumbs-up. ”Ol’ Pei, what a man!” Pei Ming gritted his teeth. “WELCOME!” - aww three two tumors buddies!!

okay yin yu is here and xie lian did the equivalent of asking someone when the baby is due only to find out theyre not pregnant at all. then rong guang taunts yin yu and no one says anything. i do love the amount of awkward moments in this book tbh sometimes there are no words.

“All around was sand and mud crushing at him, exceedingly suffocating. The sand and mud was also moving endlessly; the feeling was like he was swallowed into the stomach of a giant monster, and that monster had also eaten a bunch of other things besides him, tumbling everything in its stomach, trying to digest” - ooooh creepy!!! the red string thing... is cute.... also xie lian being able to see hua cheng’s butterfly vision by looking directly into his eye is kinda cool. and obviously homoerotic.

“Are lower-ranked heavenly officials below other people?” Quan Yizhen asked. “No,” Yin Yu replied. Were they not? It was obvious that he himself didn’t believe in his own words, and Quan Yizhen also noticed. A good while later, he said bluntly, “I don’t like it here.” Yin Yu said nothing.” - im having emotions. and then yin yu also saying he doesnt like it there either.... also idk how this scene is going to play out but as much as im enjoying quan yizhen being an icon i can also possibly see how yin yu could eventually get to the point of “i am tired of being nice. i do just want to go apeshit” even if he really cares about qyz. it happens </3

“Indeed,” Hua Cheng said. “Half a year later when Quan Yizhen actually ascends, he won’t find it so funny anymore.” “Can we watch that part too?” Xie Lian asked. “We can. Hold on,” Hua Cheng replied.” - quan yizhen king of taking things literally. also why did this turn into hualian having a movie night

jian yu seems like the kind of asshole who would purposely give someone regular soda when they specifically asked for diet soda. god yin yu is really having a bad day i really feel for him in the whole situation with the brocade immortal

awww okay at least jian yu tried to take responsibility. im still mad at him tho that was objectively a terrible idea. god this whole situation sucked :(

“Rocks and earth crushed at them from all around, forcing their bodies to press tightly against one another, their faces brushing, their ears warm. Although it wasn’t the right time, a thought flashed through Xie Lian’s mind: “‘To die buried together’ doesn’t feel so bad.” - okay... im kind of emotional.... gay people....

okay obviously these murals and the prince of wuyong have some connection (im guessing pretty direct) to xie lian and are important but everytime they start analyzing one i feel like im back in art history class fhadskfhskjdhf not that thats a bad thing!! i liked art history a lot tbh

“Don’t worry, they’re not human,” Hua Cheng said. “It’s precisely because they’re not human that we have to worry, alright….” Xie Lian thought.” - goth ghost bf problems

xie lian: well, there is one person i trust more than anyone else, someone who’s first in my mind hua cheng, oblivious: oh :/ xie lian, also oblivious: what? hua cheng: you shouldnt trust so easily its dangerous xie lian: oh. haha. yeah. well. wanna,,, know who it is? hua cheng: its :) fine :) it :) doesnt :) matter :) but of course you can tell me if you want to gege xie lian, internally: well now ive made it weird hua cheng, 5 minutes later: actually i need you to tell me. right now. its totally for your security me: gay people smh

“As they suspected, he had been captured by Qi Rong. Although no one was bound by ropes, there were balls of greasily green ghost fires hovering over every one of their heads.” - completely off track but anybody else remember the great green globs of greasy grimy gopher guts song

“Could there actually come a day when Qi Rong was embarrassed that someone might see the manner in which he ate? Before Xuan Ji entered, she put Guzi down. Guzi, ta-ta-ta, ran in, rushing straight to Qi Rong’s side. But when he saw him, he pointed his finger. He cried, “Dad is eating bad things in secret again!” “I’m not!” Qi Rong retaliated.” SCREAM IS QI RONG LEARNING THE POWER OF LOVE NOOOO also god that poor man whose body he has im starting to doubt if he’ll ever be free jimmy novak flashbacks

everytime we get another ghost king power somewhere someone should be writing hua cheng the cyborg bf in a high tech futuristic au i think thats the only other potential setting that could truly capture this wild ride

“In truth, throughout history, there was no man in the world who didn’t love bragging. A breeze could blow the handkerchief of a brothel girl into a man’s hand, and he would turn around and say the most beautiful of renowned escorts had fallen in love with him; holding shoes and wiping benches for the emperor’s mistress’s uncle’s grandson’s cousin’s mistress would for sure become him being an important administrator at the residence of royal relatives, raising his status. Thus, men who didn’t brag were a rare species.” - SCREAM this is going in my favorite tgcf quotes folder god... mxtx come here let me shake your hand

read the story of rain master yushi huang’s ascension. why am i crying. also this bit im crying again me with my stuffed animals “Thus, while Yushi Huang was cultivating at the Temple of Yulong, every time when she went to seek water and passed that door, she would rub the head of that ox. The door knocker soaked in her essence of life, and when the Rain Master ascended, the ox ascended with her.”

okay thats enough for now i have 7 more chapters to book 4!!! woo!!!

[sugarapplebaby]

Oh I am so fucking tired. You don’t even know the level of soul exhaustion I feel. After enduring the shit from the Owari // No Seraph fandom and the drama multiple people caused me by claiming I was shit for not being able to support their art while going THREE WHOLE FUCKING MONTHS without power and attending Highschool on top of the abusive shit my own sister put me through and barely having any food; While claiming I was “Too Sensitive” to follow and speak to after coming to me for kind words because “Destiny, You’re a nice person.” days before claiming my handling on emotions was too fucking weak for you. On top of this dealing with crap after visiting Chicago and how I was a disappointment because I wasn’t sexual enough for my partner at the time and then stating I was too hung up on them to be friends because their new partner was uncomfortable with me speaking to my ex and other shit I won’t get into. I don’t care if shit has been resolved, I still fucking hear it in the back of my head. “You’re too sensitive” “You’re a disappointment” (Because I wasn’t as sexual as the characters that I wrote?) “You’re a shit friend, you should support my art” WHEN I COULDN’T EVEN USE MY INTERENET OR L I G H T S FOR THAT MATTER

But now I’ve dealt with some serious dumb ass bullshit. After years of recovering from the emotional abuse and how clingy I used to be and built up trust issues I have people dropping left and right because holy fuck I’m not okay with Inc*st anymore because I realized it was a terrible thing to advocate for, fiction or not. Not to meant the resurfacing memories seeing it everywhere was causing. I made a comfy little hole with people I knew from on//s, ygo, and kh and now mxtx fandom. And you know I think I’m so angry right now because one of my close friends deals with a lot of flack just for speaking his mind. And it hella reminds me of what I went through in the on//s fandom with people unfollowing him, no longer supporting him, and talking shit behind his back along with anon hate. You fuckers are childish and I hate every single one of you. It was really fucking peaceful in the mxtx fandom before it really hit the western fandom. I didn’t have anyone talking about inc*st every two second or abusive/toxic minor x adult couples. I happily enjoyed putting together my thoughts about Mo Xuanyu. Like I was literally the first to get my hands on his vague character.

Now the people I spoke to about Mo Xuanyu turn out to be just... assholes. I had a boat and now it’s a raft with 3-5 people in it. Dj, Kit, Rand, Fei, and Shiiro. And also me.

But everyone else has been pretty fake. Offering to help me then blocking me. Making fun of me for being too awkward. Now going after someone I know for really dumb shit and acting like he was the manipulative one. I can make my own damn decisions! I’m tired of letting everyone walk over me. Of blaming me for being gullible or it’s my fault people are mad at me. You make me feel like shit and like I can’t be my own person. Fuck off.

[tonyglowheart]

@imaginaryelle replied to your post:*me sipping tea* (x)

I would really enjoy seeing more of your thoughts on this, if you ever want to share them.

:’) a lot of my thoughts are salty rants and I’m TGCF on main right now so uhhh not at the moment but if you wanna hmu on like a chat thing of some sort I probably will eventually rant about my dislike of The MXTX Antis and the Problematic Culture people and the purity culture wank :’)

actually you know what, since I’m a parody of myself and I’m like always mood of "and another thing,” I’m just going to. go for it ig

so my biggest thing, is with the MXTX antis/MDZS wank/MXTX wank. is like....god it FRUSTRATES me so fckn much lmfao in so many ways and on so many levels.  like listen. I’m not saying there isn’t stuff to critique in MDZS. But there’s people who are first off: critiquing the writing quality, when I’m like “there’s like a 90% chance you’re reading the EN translation, and probably from ExR, and honestly I know it’s not fandom etiquette to critique fan content bc we’re all doing this for free out of passion, BUT I do, in fact, have some major issues with ExR’s translation quality, and also I lowkey feel like they have a strong traditional yaoi bias and sometimes it leaks through in how they handle certain things.” Big mood of this twitter thread about how when you’re reading in TL you can’t be criticizing the writing bc you’re already reading it filtered and like. you gotta consider things like the TL’s own personal biases or takes, etc. Which I feel like some people don’t in their critique, or at least they don’t take the time to acknowledge it and instead start spinning off into more and more impassioned reactions to perceived slights or faults.

The other thing is like. I admit when I first read MDZS - which I did while simultaneously watching bc I was kind of using CQL as a vehicle to get into MDZS, I had the HARDEST time trying to read ExR’s translation when I was going into it cold many many many moods ago rip - I was also squicked out by the explicit scenes shown. It did remind me a lot of traditional yaoi tropes, and I wasn’t into it. HOWEVER I was also a psych major, and I want to point out that the T/N’s do read to me as having a strong yaoi bias, and also before ExR redid their site they had large “SERVING YAOI AND BL” banners on EVERY page lol. And I think that also primes people to see things a certain way. (I just. am :/ about ExR also bc like... their whole vibe as a “yaoi scanlator” and also I. can’t be sure the TL wasn’t 17 when they were tl’ing it lmfao,,  and they did the whole rant - which fine they apologized for, but I think sort of reflects on a general attitude still w/ the team - about how some other TL had bad quality or something, but their existing TL has a lot of clunky English phrasing and actually a lot of editing issues, too, I was creating myself a back-up copy from their site and like google docs was already catching a bunch of typos and tense issues and such :’) and that’s beyond clunky EN translation phrasing. I just am like. they have a patreon lol, so I can’t say ExR is doing it wholly not-for-profit/dollars, and also like... it’s not like they’re licensed? I get that within scanlation circles, there’s an etiquette of “first come first serve,” but with translation, I think fans are only served with more translations? but I also care about the original work lol, I mean I get the vanity of “I want MINE to be the AUTHORITATIVE tl” bc I feel that mood too, but also I’m like. fam you didn’t bid for a license lmao.)

But yeah like. My petty gripes with ExR aside lmfao, I think when you look at WangXian, the whole “it’s yaoi tropes” gets really strawman. Like from a Watsonian perspective, I mean like... both WWX and LWJ really ARE useless virgins, lol, WWX’s first kiss was stolen by LWJ and his whole idea of sex comes from porn; LWJ is GusuLan and like. yeah. Who is teaching them about lube? certainly not porn. (but this also gets into the whole. like people saying explicit material is “problematic” because it doesn’t show “realistic” sex and I’m like. fam it’s smut, not a sex manual.) And like... they’re both kinky and WWX has a pregnancy kink, and like... good for them I guess?

From a more Doylist perspective..... I think for me, I’m like. well why not? gay media doesn’t have to be uwu to be “Valid,” and like, the people who start attacking mxtx personally because of the way she chose to write WangXian, or saying she’s homophobic because of WangXian or she doesn’t have the range... I already Know they didn’t read TGCF or SV lol. (and yeah SV is more “problematic” but I also think it’s VERY genre aware and both satirizes and also plays with and subverts some of the typical genre “problematic” things. not everything, but like. again the whole idea that non-mainstream media needs to be held to a higher standard to not be cancelled? I don’t hold by that). [But more on the Doylist thing: it’s dumb to me that people react like it’s a moral failing of non-straight works if they don’t fit EXACTLY their personal idea of what a thing should be. And this comes up EVERY time there’s some new thing. hell it’s not even just lgbt-related stuff; Hamilton, Crazy Rich Asians, etc all had nitpicking. Which again, isn’t invalid! but also like. :/ because we DON’T have enough representation right now to pick, and my take is always: the solution is to get to the point where we can pick and choose and can afford to have bad media just like the straights/whites do :’)]

The thing about WWX and LWJ is neither of them, as they’re written in canon, fit within “traditional yaoi” seme/uke stereotypes. The kiss I see people rail against as “dubcon” and also their sex scenes but I’m like. yeah I think it’s fine to say it’s not your cup of tea but to say that that makes them traditional yaoi rapey tropes I’m like. Fam that’s not it lol. LWJ is shown as being SO incredibly responsive and attentive to WWX’s wishes and desires. I mean that’s examples of his passion exploding out, but we consistently see LWJ being respectful of WWX’s wishes and autonomy even when it like. fucks him/them over :’) like when WWX was so hell-bent on hurtling down the mo’dao route :’)

plus also WWX literally fantasizes about them retiring as farmers and he’s the one out working the fields and LWJ is staying at home weaving lol, like c’mon, ya wanna talk gender roles, let’s talk about this.

the other thing is the whole mxtx anti stuff about “she’s homophobic” and “she’s a filthy fujo” and I think there’s issues that people aren’t considering, which I don’t know as much about but I feel like it informs my consideration of mxtx - such as like... not everyone’s internet is as wide open as, like, the West. I don’t know so much about Chinese censorship other than it exists, but I’m like. I think this would affect people’s access to resources which would inform them about how things work/where people are with LGBT thought? It reminds me of when young tumblr kids trash talk older queer people for using terms they see as “problematic” now, and I’m like “you really gotta pause a moment of (1) have some empathy (2) consider the person’s individual personal and cultural context.” MDZS wasn’t made for a Western audience in mind lol, it’s not going to reflect Western values! And China has a different history with its LGBT progression and it’s m/m media, which I don’t know enough about to comment specifically, but I think it’s incredibly disingenuous to judge it based on Western standards. A lot of people probably don’t realize they are! in that it doesn’t even occur to them, which is why they feel so free with their judgment! But also I’m like. lowkey THAT’s a problem for me bc of like. cultural imperialism lmfao. and also reflective of EN-language imperialism, when people are judging EN tl’s they’re seeing on face value without realizing or considering that they’re...reading... a translation... and that translations are NOT in fact direct one-for-one and that there’s a LOT of considerations that go into both translating and reading a translation of a work.

I think the points antis pull up against MXTX is like... stuff she’s said before in interviews - and I don’t know from when, but I imagine years ago at this point - where she was asked about shipping the other characters in MDZS, and she said something I think about how to her, she wants to write in a way that “preserves realism” or maybe she believes in (I only read a TL of it, so I hold the exact phrasing with a grain of salt), and for her, not everyone is gay so she doesn’t write all of her named characters gay. and I’m like. whatever that’s her prerogative as the author. And I think there’s also something that I don’t know if it’s an official “rules”/”guidelines” she wrote bc again I’ve only seen secondhand/thirdhand sources, but it’s something mxtx-antis also quote, where she said to not break up the main couples and also don’t “reverse” them. but again when we’re getting into the shou/gong dynamics, that’s where I don’t feel comfortable commenting because I don’t know enough about the sociopolitical implications of these terms and how they interact within that fandom/community subset. But I do think people need to be taking the stuff they read - ESPECIALLY if they’re only reading it in EN - with a grain of salt. or like a big ol pinch of it. 

edit: I know more about this now lmao and I know exactly which question people use piecemeal of vilify her. Here’s a recent-ish translation someone did. Read it through - the WHOLE thing, and think about the wider context.

But also in general I just don’t think anyone is valid when we start getting into ad hominems lol. Especially when I feel like they’re not really taking a moment to consider what wider contexts and influences might be at play and instead are playing Tumblr telephone with outrage and virtue signalling

sidebar: I also fucking HATE CQL purists lmfao. I don’t feel like I’ve seen or encountered anyone saying CQL fans are less valid than novel fans except in the sense of CQL fans getting defensive about their dislike of the novel - which, whatever, people have opinions - or decision not to read the novel and saying anyone saying they HAVE to read the novel is gatekeeping - which I hold to less but mostly bc I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of fan language, some of us say you HAVE to read it not in a neckbeard way but in a I’m so desperately passionate and I want more people to know about this way, kind of like how the “I hate you” in fan language GENERALLY means “I love it so much and I can’t stand it”? - but I HAVE seen people say the novel “ruined” wangxian, or CQL people who seem to be like... purity-wanking, like idk if you were around but god after Infinity War and the number. of fckn ironstranges. posting in the tags. about “love how healthy our ship is” and I’m like. this is still anti culture/purity wank but the other side of the coin 8). I encounter sometimes this lowkey attitude of CQL (or other adaptations) “redeeming” MDZS from the author, and I’m like. y’all are wack lmfao. There’s people wiht MDZS or even TGCF main, and they hate mxtx? and they say shit like “mdzs was only good on accident”? and I’m like. can you just leave lmfao. if you hate her then why are you here. (bc they’ve mental gymnastics this into a virtue ethics thing about “o the work is good and therefore morally fine but the parts I don’t like are because mxtx is morally bad and unworthy and tainted it, and CQL with its Purity has Redeemed it” but I’m like. this is because of censorship lmao. The team did a FANTASTIC job working the character dynamics and story, but like it also is directly because of censorship.)  

like I... have more thoughts than this lmfao bc ofc I do, but anyway, here’s... some of them lol

[lisbeibeth]

1. you've read the novel, right? what are your thoughts on xueyang, compared to the show? if you don't mind sharing, of course. i'm curious because i watched the untamed and i was like ''oh, xueyang... interes-ting'', but then i started reading the novel on wattpad and everyone was like ''ugh, i hate this guy. he's disgusting. he's a piece of trash. suddenly i can't read'' very strongly and i was a bit surprised by the strong rejection O: +

2.  this isn't the only reason, probably, but i guess the show can pass a slightly different perception of him, because i honestly liked him as a character from the beginning hajshaajas

I know, right - the book fans really hate Xue Yang, like with passion!

The thing is, maybe because I watched the show before I read the book, I kind of felt for Xue Yang (it really doesn’t hurt that Wang Hao Xuan is so very easy on the eyes - cheekbones, man). But it’s also true that book-XY is a very different animal. I think whoever wrote the screenplay either saw something that book fans didn’t or saw the underlying intention behind XY - MXTX has said that Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System is basically XY’s story, but I haven’t read it so I can’t really say.

I mean, I’ve practiced selective reading on the book (look, it’s LONG. Also, the Yi city arc is so tragic it’s painful) so I can’t really say whether we even get Xue Yang’s flashback on the point of death, which goes far in garnering sympathy for the character.

Also, the book is primarily from Wei Wuxian’s POV, so we don’t see much beyond that, while The Untamed gives so much more.

For example, when do we first meet Xue Yang? It’s literally during the episode when our boys start college, start listening to a lecture at Cloud Recesses. And he’s exactly their age, if not a little younger. So while they’re having drunken hijinks with their buddies, he’s being choked by the current dark lord amid the fires of Mount Doom, I mean Buyetian.

And it’s like - he chose all that - but did he really? The entirety of XY’s backstory is Wei Wuxian without the kindly uncle who saves him from the streets.

To be honest, a lot of my sympathy for the character comes from a line by Jin Guangyao in the GuanYin temple scenes. Re. what Xue Yang thought he was doing with the Yin Iron? “He wanted to save Xiao Xingchen.”

Yes, it’s obsessive and wrong and he caused all this. But still. He wanted to save Xiao Xingchen. It’s one of those ‘the moment my heart broke’ scenes. And then there’s the fact that he kept Xiao Xingchen’s body uncorrupted for ten years. Again, I get it. Obsessive, unhealthy, yada yada.

All of this could be in the novel, but I do think the screenplay and the actor added a lot. I’m also planning a fic but shhhhhhhhhhhh

Also, have I pointed out that he’s the master of some magnificent eyerolls? Anyone who rolls their eyes at Wen Chao like this gains points in my book

(gif is by Urwaxi on Wattpad)