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crazylilad · 2 years

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I’ll do anything for you even if you won’t love me back PART 3

Masterlist

Last part I'll be doing of this story until further notice! It's been a journey getting so many replies asking for more of Y/N and Daryl and I'm pleased to say this isn't going to be the end of their story! I plan on finishing up s8-s10 (I'm not doing s11 because I haven't seen it yet) and then ending this oneshot/story.

Don't expect anymore parts anytime soon as I have more stories I want to write and don't want to focus all my attention on just one story.

Please make sure to reblog, like, or whatever you wanna do! That helps me want to continue writing these kinds of stories and to figure out what people want

Just a reminder, this is set in early season 7, around the beginning of the savior arc :)

Word count: 3198

If you'd like to be tagged or removed, please let me know!

@d1am0ndw0lfxd @eatinpeachs @thefemininemystiquee @infectedbydaryl @ellablossom @azanoni @shadylilac @fuseburner @my-obsession-spn

***

That night, Maggie and Sasha both decided to share a room with a couple of Hilltop’s residents so Y/N and Daryl could have the trailer to themselves. Daryl and her both had tried to decline, both coming up with different excuses, but the two girls didn’t relent.

Y/N knew Maggie was giving them privacy so Y/N could tell Daryl about her being pregnant, but Y/N couldn’t make herself say the words.

She was laid across Daryl’s bare chest, running a finger along one of his scars.

Daryl had told Y/N about his past, what happened to his mom and what his dad did to them all. He never let people see the ugly markings left, never let anyone touch him, but Y/N was different.

When they first started sleeping in the same bed, Daryl couldn’t help but be tense. He slept in his day clothes and wouldn’t touch Y/N, or let her touch him. Even if before sleeping together they would sneak kisses when no one was looking.

But soon enough, Y/N had caught him undressed and saw every part of him, even the broken parts.

She didn’t look at him any differently though. She didn’t even say anything as she got up and held him close, her stomach flat against his back as she softly caressed his scars. He stood there, dumbfounded and tense as tears flooded his vision.

That was the first time he had ever felt love before, the first time he had been hugged like that and told that he was perfect the way he was. Daryl wasn’t so sure if he believed it himself, but Y/N seemed pretty damn adamant that it was the truth, going as far as making him feel worthy of being cared for.

Now, as Y/N touches his scars once more, occasionally kissing one, he touched the few on her back and arms. She had gotten them throughout her time in this ugly world, most were from her time alone -and Daryl knew how dark those stories were- and the rest was from protecting their family.

His heart pounded as he thought of all the times he wasn’t there to protect her, when she didn’t know to protect herself.

Y/N hummed before getting up.

Their plates of food were discarded along with their clothes, Y/N’s necklace somewhere on the floor, hidden away from view. Neither of them could care less about the mess they had made in the little time they had been together again, they were just glad for the sense of security they felt in one another's arms.

“I was gonna come for you,” Y/N finally whispered. “I wasn’t going to leave you there… I’m-” But the words didn’t want to leave her mouth. I’m pregnant and I feel utterly useless against the saviors.

Daryl’s hand moved to Y/N’s bicep, his calloused fingers drawing aimlessly like Y/N had done to him so many times before.

“Ya don’t gotta explain yourself. I get it.” he murmured.

She sighed before kissing Daryl’s hand and tossing her clothes on. Their food was cold by now, yet neither of them complained as they both sat down and ate more than what they probably should’ve.

The next day, Daryl was watching Y/N. He had noticed her sluggish movements and how she snapped at everyone around her so easily. It was so different from the calm Y/N he knew.

When the saviors came unexpectedly, Y/N and him were separated, neither knowing where the other was. Y/N was hidden under a trailer, just barely out of sight while Daryl hid with Maggie in Hilltop’s food cellar. After about an hour or so, the saviors left and not long after Y/N and Daryl were headed back to their trailer and asleep for the rest of the night.

Daryl watched as she got undressed and burrowed herself under the mounds of blankets on their small bed. His knife tapped the table, leaving small markings on the wood as he tried to figure out what was bothering her that was so bad she was hiding it from him.

It was so unlike her, the usual girl who spent hours ranting about her issues if only to come up with a solution by herself was now more quiet than she had ever been. Daryl would listen every time she would rant to him, not speaking unless she asked him what his input was, but that rarely ever happened.

Y/N hated herself for that, always feeling like she was wasting his time, but Daryl would let her waste years of his life if it meant he could see her happy.

He smiled. She didn’t know it, but she was his better half, the half that could solve anything if she wanted to.

Y/N listened as he moved around the trailer and got ready for the night, her body shaking under the covers as she tried to get warm. When Daryl’s arms wrapped around her she wasted no time burrowing her head into his chest, the blankets going over her head as Daryl chuckled.

Y/N listened to his voice as he told stories, some about him and his older brother, and the trouble they always got into, and some about what he wanted to try to build at some point. Daryl whispered something about building them a log cabin in the middle of the woods when they were done fighting the Saviors, promising to find Y/N some sort of mutt they could have as a companion.

“We’ll name ‘em dog.” Daryl joked, smiling when he heard Y/N’s laugh.

It wasn’t long until they had fallen asleep, only to get up hours later. Neither of them were ready for the busy day to come; Jesus had told the both of you all about another community under Negan’s rule. To Daryl, that was all that was happening, but today was the day Y/N would tell him.

There was never going to be a good time to tell Daryl and Jesus mentioned there would be a doctor at this new place that could check on Y/N’s health.

With that said, Y/N slipped her boots on and followed Daryl out the trailer. She could see Rick as well as a few others from Alexandria walking through Hilltop. smiled as Rick and Daryl hugged each other tightly, tears glimmering in both their eyes.

Y/N made her rounds, hugging all of her friends, but she and Michonne hugged the longest, each saying words that they couldn’t convey properly.

Y/N felt awful for leaving right after a terrible argument, going as far as to wish to never see the couple ever again. She wanted more than anything to make it up to them, but didn’t know how.

She backed away from her friend and offered a small smile, wiping away the tears threatening to fall when Daryl placed a hand on her shoulder, leading her over to sit in the back seat of a car.

The drive to the new community was long and Y/N spent most of that time drawing random shapes on Daryl’s hands while speaking softly to Carl who was sitting behind them.

When they pulled up in a parking lot and led to the Kingdom’s gates, Y/N felt a sickening feeling in the pit of her stomach. Daryl felt it too and kept close to Y/N who was looking paler by the second.

Neither of them said anything, but when they met Ezekial, they thought he was an insane man. Still, Y/N respected his way of leading, especially when she learned he was able to keep Negan’s men outside of his walls. Perhaps it wasn’t much, but to Y/N, it was everything.

Daryl, on the other hand, wanted to leave immediately. He didn’t trust these people to be as strong as Jesus was making them out to be. Sure, they had survived this long, but that didn’t mean anything. They had walls to hide behind, that was nothing compared to being out on the road for weeks at a time.

It wasn’t long after their meeting with the king that they group decided to head back home, hoping to get back before the saviors decided to check Alexandria for Daryl. Y/N stood on the porch of the building her group had just come out of and watched in silence as Rick told Daryl to stay behind, the rest of the group walking out through the front gates.

Morgan, who she didn’t expect to see here of all places, was standing next to her, arms resting on his stick.

Daryl marched back in the gates when Rick began to catch up with the group. Y/N’s brows raised when she saw his enraged expression. She bit her lip before following him to a building the community used as apartments.

She found Daryl pacing an empty room, hands fisted. He was beyond angry, and upset. They had all left him. Sure, there was a reason behind it, but Y/N and Daryl were great assets to the group, and both of them could stay out of sight when Negan came to take things from Alexandria. They sure as hell were no use trying to convince a pretend king to join a war.

Y/N thought otherwise. In fact, while she watched Daryl from the doorway she was leaning against, she was making a plan on how to make Ezekial help them. She knew why Rick was making Daryl and her stay as far away from Negan as possible, knew if Daryl had even a slim chance -even if it meant he died as well- he would kill Negan and ruin everything. Y/N had never seen him so hidden in rage, but no one could stop him if he lost control over his emotions. Whether he could see it or not, this was for the best. At least for now.

Daryl stopped pacing. His shoulders were shaking as he faced the room’s window that looked down at the Kingdom. He had thought the same things as Y/N and it only hurt him more. He was no longer trusted, it felt like.

Daryl sniffed, looking down at his hands. He couldn’t see anything but the blood of Glenn. It was his fault what happened, his fault Y/N wasn’t safe in Alexandria instead of hiding from Negan. If he had just stayed kneeling…

His mind was clouded and he didn’t feel when Y/N wrapped her arms around him.

His hands moved to wipe at the tears that fell onto his cheeks. He couldn’t understand what was going on, but there was an anger in him so dangerous he feared he would punch one of the walls near him. But Y/N’s arms stopped that from happening and so he dropped his fisted hands and let her soothe him.

Night had fallen hours later. Y/N and Daryl were now sitting on the floor, looking at the outside world behind the window. Daryl’s head was resting on Y/N’s shoulder, her head on top of his. Their hands were interlocked, Daryl’s thumb rubbing circles on Y/N’s rough skin.

It was so peaceful here. It felt like alexandria before things went to shit.

Daryl smiled softly at the thought, wondering what it would’ve been like for those people if his family had never showed up. Y/N had spent a lot of her time with Deanna, convincing her to let Y/N lead.

Y/N was smart like that. She knew if it ever came down to it, her smarts were better than her muscles. However, Deanna played the same game as Y/N and didn’t make it easy for her. Half the time Y/N would end up overly upset that Deanna hadn’t just accecpted Y/N’s offer and the other half liked the challenge.

“I’m pregnant.” Y/N whispered out of the blue, silencing Daryl’s thoughts.

Daryl froze, unsure if he had heard what she said or if his mind was playing tricks on him. He removed his body from Y/N’s and stared at her. His usual indifferent demeanor was gone and replaced with shock; eyes wide, mouth open. Y/N would laugh if it weren’t for the circumstances.

“I’m sorry, I should’ve told you sooner, I know that but-”

“How far along are ya?” He interrupted her. Daryl’s mind had quit working as soon as Y/N said those two words. How would they feed the baby? How would he keep Y/N and their child safe? What if he didn’t make it?

Y/N looked down, shrugging her shoulders. “I don’t know… I haven’t checked or anything, or… I- I don’t know.”

Daryl stared at her for the longest time too wrapped up in his own thoughts. He would need to make sure she was eating a lot and sleeping well now that he knew. And with the threat of Negan and walkers-

Y/N snorting bought him out of his thoughts. Daryl looked like he had seen Santa Claus for the first time.

“What the hell do we do?” He whispered. Y/N covered her face, cheeks red, when she realized just how much he cared. Why had she thought this was going to go bad in the first place?

Daryl frowned. “What?”

She shook her head, looking away from him. It was quiet for a long time before Y/N spoke. “I love you.”

She had known for a long time, had tried to tell herself not to get attached because Daryl wasn’t that kind of guy… But then she got pregnant, Daryl got taken by Negan…

“God, I love you and I’m sorry for not telling you sooner, but you’re perfect, Daryl Dixon-”

She was cut off by Daryl’s lips on hers. She gasped as she was forced to lean back, one hand moving to catch them before they both fell to the floor.

“I love you,” Daryl whispered. “I love you I love you I love you-” with each time he said it the kiss seemed to deepen and Y/N couldn’t stop herself from getting overly emotional.

She was crazy for thinking he wouldn’t like the idea of children, crazy for thinking he would up and leave as soon as the words were out. Sure, they both wondered if they would be good parents, and they spent most of the night speaking about it before falling asleep in one another’s arms.

The next day Daryl was up early.

He sat on the edge of their cot holding Y/N’s hand as she slept soundly behind him, snoring. She was still so small, and even though she wasn’t that far along, Daryl was about ready to go out and hunt a month’s worth of food just for her.

He was itching to leave and do just that but knew Y/N was planning on going to Kingdom’s doctor for a check up and Daryl would be with her every step of the way no matter who tried to stop him.

It was late afternoon when she woke up, alone in a room while the sun shined in through the window. Daryl’s things were gone and a plate of food was sat on a wooden chair for her.

She ate it all, even if there were enough portions for three, before going outside.

Y/N was walking around the Kingdom when she found Daryl walking the wall’s perimeter. She paused and watched as his eyes scanned everything around him, shoulders tense. She made a quick guess and assumed he was making sure the walls would hold while Y/N and him were staying there.

When Daryl spotted her, he smiled softly. In a few long strides he was in front of her, greeting her with a soft, quick kiss.

“What happened to staying by my side no matter what, huh?” Y/N joked.

He scoffed, pushing her shoulder gently as he led her toward the infirmary. “Yer snores pushed me out the room.”

Y/N scowled. “That’s a bit harsh.”

Daryl shrugged before walking into the infirmary. They were met with a lot of stares and Y/N could see just how tense Daryl was right now.

It wasn’t long before the Kingdom’s doctor was taking them to a private room where an ultrasound and a bed sat.

“Would you mind leaving the room?” The doctor asked Dary, brows raised. Y/N wasn’t sure if he was rude or if she was feeling extra hormornal today.

Daryl ignored him.

Y/N smiled softly when the doctor directed his attention to her. “He was never socialized properly.” Y/N said.

Daryl stepped closer as the doctor got his equipment ready, his hand intertwined with Y/N’s. No words were spoken between the two as the screen showed their child, the tiny dot just barely noticeable. Y/N wiped at her eyes, but she was unable to keep her tears at bay.

The two of them had no idea if they would be good parents or not, but both of them would go to the ends of the earth to keep their baby safe.

Month’s later, when Negan was defeated and locked away, Y/N gave birth to their baby. Turns out, Mini Dixon was a girl and all the boy names they had planned out after months of being told they would have a boy were useless. After a few weeks Daryl and Y/N decided on Harlow Dixon.

When Rick died, Harlow was outside the walls more, accompanying her parents as they searched for Rick’s body. She was still a baby, though, and while Y/N wished they didn’t have to, sometimes the Dixon family would end up at Hilltop for a few days at a time -or weeks depending on the weather.

Daryl was good at staying with them, occasionally leaving to hunt, and soon enough he had found an abandoned cabin they could stay in permanently. Not long after, while Y/N and Harlow were planting some seeds for a garden, a dog showed up.

Dog became a beloved member of Y/N and Daryl’s family and even if Daryl didn’t say it, he loved the damn animal more than Harlow did.

Now, after years of looking and giving up on finding Rick, Y/N was coming back from a trip to Hilltop, a bright smile on her face as she opened the cabin’s door and found Daryl and Harlow in the middle of playing dress up.

Daryl held a small tea cup, his normal gruff features replaced with a bright smile as Harlow directed him on how to be prim and proper. Those were two words Y/N thought she would never describe Daryl as.

She smiled softly.

Even if they didn’t know at that moment that in a couple days Carol and Henry would find Daryl coming back from a hunting trip and escort Daryl back to the cabin. From there they would all venture to Hilltop and learn about a new threat.

Harlow was still too little and Y/N spent most of her time keeping an eye on her child, but at one point she had turned around and Harlow was gone. Enid was gone as well, having been with Y/N only an hour before, and so many others. Most would end up with their heads on a pike… and the other would get out because Y/N and Daryl would burn the world for her.

And they did.

Prompt: I'll do anything for you even if you won't love me back

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thirddoctor · 1 year

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Don't know if it's an unpopular opinion but I was thinking how annoying it was that Chibnall ignored everything in the Moffat seasons. I remember the Doctor acting all surprised when she met a nice dalek and said something like it never happened before but we already had this with Rusty (and in fact he was in 12's regeneration episode!). And of course Missy never got mentioned, not even once. River got mentioned but I think it's because fans kept asking about her. I know it's not a popular Era and I wasn't expecting any character to come back but come on not everything would be poorly received. Missy was the first female Master and we are just not gonna mention her during the first female Doctor seasons? Anyway, I voted Delgado for most fashionable.

The thing is, I expect a certain amount of disconnect between eras because it's basically a soft reboot. You need to get new people onboard and not have them hopelessly confused by decades' worth of lore, so stuff like not mentioning Rusty the Dalek doesn't bother me, I think that's fine. The fact that there's just absolutely nothing even attempting to tie Missy and Dhawan together bothers me a lot more though. Obviously I care about the character and really liked Missy's arc so that's part of it, but also this was only two seasons after S10. Even casual viewers are going to be able to remember that, and it just feels weird not to address it even slightly. There are ways you could do it without alienating new fans (it certainly wouldn't be any more confusing than stuff like Jack popping up and randomly talking about Rose Tyler).

I also found it silly when the show referenced stuff and got it wrong, like Gallifrey still being in a pocket universe. You start to wonder if the writers even watched past S7.

Thank you for voting correctly, even if my boy sadly didn't win. :(

#Replies #Anon #Ranger shut up about Doctor Who #DW criticism

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orange-enjoyer · 6 months

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32 days until restoration (holds out my tiny microphone) thoughts?

Scared <3

They have Burnie back so I'm hoping that they'll get the characterisation right and the gang won't act wildly different (looking at you zero tucker and wash) but the whole concept just. Doesn't sit right with me?

They ended the show three times already, in seasons 10, 13 and 17. S10 has a nice ending, I think they could have easily wrapped it up there and left it (freelancer saga my beloved <3) but I'll admit the s13 ending is Amazing and leaves the show on a really bittersweet but high note. It has made me cry every time I've watched it and it's just a really good send off.

Then the blues and reds were a fun little side story but I feel like it kinda shits on the s13 ending (hell, the whole plot is baiting everyone with church being alive). They gave the characters a proper send off with s13 but then had a fun idea for a side story, and it's a pretty solid story with some of my favourite moments in the show so fine, a fun little adventure after the events of the main story.

Then the shizno paradox happened and. I like Huggins! I think donut finally got his well deserved arc and (speaking from the perspective of someone who does not have brain damage or memory issues or anything even close to what happened to wash so take my opinion with a heap of salt) I think they handled wash's brain injury with a surprising amount of care and respect for the haha goofy web series. Also caboose and Carolina in the shizno trilogy? I love them so so much caboose I would kill for you.

But it does feel like a punch in the face of season 13's ending. Especially with how ridiculous it gets at points (putting aside the "god"-killing golf-club they did tucker and sister SO dirty)

From what I can tell, most fans seem to agree that s13 was the proper ending for rvb, so I can understand why Burnie would want to go back to that and try to recreate that, and send the show off with a bang, but at a certain point it's just beating a dead horse? Plus they've already shown that they don't particularly care about respecting the show's roots and one of the reasons it got so popular like not rehiring Trocadero :((

I'm also worried that it may have been made in an attempt to start up the series again which means that we might have some random plot threads that either lead nowhere or get resolved Super quickly because rt got shutdown partway through production :(

Then again, I really hope I'll be proven wrong! I hope they give the cast a proper send-off and end rvb on a high note! I'm just very cautiously optimistic because I'll be honest shizno paradox and zero (and RT just being a horrible company in general and treating their employees like shit) left a rather sour taste in my mouth.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I'm not holding my breath ya know?

#my ramblings #good god this got long soergy #rvb

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leojurand · 4 months

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so i'm watching the walking dead (kinda for the first time, i watched the first 3, 3 and a half seasons back in the day, now i'm on s10) and it's taking over my life and the issue with that is that i actively look for opinions, character rankings, analysis etc.

and it's an issue because i've discovered that the fandom really doesn't like maggie. and the reasons why make no sense to me like, at all, and they make me feel crazy

that means ofc that i need to rant about it

first: s1-s6 maggie. i think most people say they like maggie just fine in these seasons, or they just don't care about her that much. everyone complains about her forgetting about beth in 4b-5a but i mean. the general consensus is that that's shitty writing and not maggie being an awful sister (tho i have seen that opinion as well lol).

but the most common complaint i've seen about her character in this era is: maggie and glenn's characters are all about their romance (specifically from s2 to s4 i think). and i agree! i've always liked maggie but this is why i wasn't super invested in her character early on. the problem is when people say "maggie drags glenn down". but not the other way around? it's like they only see her as glenn's love interest, while glenn is a character on his own and he can't have more interesting storylines because he's stuck in this romance (a romance most fans love btw that's not the problem). i guess this is because glenn was introduced first and existed in the story before maggie but like. that was like 6 eps and it's not like he was getting a crazy character arc.

so yeah, it does feel like misogyny when someone blames maggie for this when it's a problem for both characters.

now, post s6 is where most of the maggie hate comes from, and they have plenty of reasons to dislike her, or her arc (and i disagree with most of them):

- "maggie isn't/doesn't deserve to be a leader, maggie's leader arc feels forced": okay this one is genuinely baffling to me because i love this arc. it starts in s7 (arguably 5b, i'd say maggie becoming deanna's counselor is the actual beginning), and that's important because s7-8 are generally agreed upon to be not well-written. in fact, most of my faves from prior seasons get the short stick during this era imo: rick, carol, daryl. that's why maggie was such a highlight to me; i was so invested in her rise to leadership in hilltop. it made complete sense to me because she started getting a more "political" role in 5b, and she was the one who made the deal with gregory in s6, and saw his incompetence first hand. it was not only compelling, but very natural for her character. it also makes sense with the trajectory the rest of the group was taking: once they get to alexandria, several of them start to get placed, or put themselves in, positions of power. it happens with rick, glenn, and abraham. but maggie is the one that feels forced and undeserving... why?

- "maggie is nothing but a widow after 7x01/maggie's character becomes all about negan": obviously i don't see the logic in this statement because she becomes the leader of a community in this era? she cares about people, she makes hilltop a better place, she calls out gregory's bullshit and gives him so many opportunities he doesn't even deserve. she does what needs to be done, but still listens to the people she loves. not once, in all of s7, does maggie mention negan or her need to take revenge. she bonds with sasha over their shared grief (something they'd already done in 5b, the arc that keeps on giving, but their dynamic started in 4b!), and sasha and enid take care of her; she befriends jesus, and he becomes instantly loyal to her because he sees all her qualities; he knows what an incompetent leader is like, and knows that maggie is perfect for the position. maggie never stops mourning, but all of these relationships aren't about glenn or negan. but no one cares about them enough to remember or appreciate them i guess ://

- "maggie betrayed rick": this is actually so stupid and definitely one of those instances when people hate on character for disagreeing with/going against their favourite character. rick was wrong when he spared negan. he was wrong for deciding that on his own, for not consulting anyone, for disregarding the feelings of maggie and daryl and everyone else negan had hurt. and rick did for selfish reasons! he wanted to honour carl, and so he betrayed his friends and he acted like that was the only choice. like what he wanted was what mattered. maggie (and daryl) had every right to go behind his back and try to kill negan. rick didn't respect her wishes, didn't keep his word after he said he wouldn't stop until negan was dead, so why should she obey him? it's crazy that there are people who feel that way. if carl had died during the line up, maggie would never have stopped him from taking revenge, even if for some reason glenn believed that to be right. it was an awful thing to do to her, right when she thought she could finally end it and find some peace of mind. team maggie and daryl for life dpmo!!!

related to that, maggie was also right about not wanting to follow the rules rick and michonne were planning to establish, and doing what she felt was best for her people. she was right when she didn't want to give food to the saviors, she was right when she suspected them, she was right when she let the oceanside women execute arat. no one has ever been more right in the history of television.

and this is kinda related too, but i've seen michonne fans boast about michonne always being calm and collected and always making the right decisions (which is not true, thankfully michonne is more complex than that). i bring it up because unfortunately i often see twd fans use their love for a female character to insult the other women in the show. which is really tragic, but in this case i also can't see why that's something to boast about. i like that maggie is angry and resentful, i like that she makes mistakes and irrational choices because of that anger and grief. i like that she doesn't let go of all those messy feelings in order to be calm and therefore more palatable. yes, fans call her whiny and say she should just move on, get over it (fucked up if you see what she went through, but whatever). but i don't want that. female characters are always expected to get over things quickly, to deal with their problems quietly, because if they don't they're whiny and annoying and insufferable. if they make bad decisions they're useless, they're getting people killed. male characters are allowed to have those ugly feelings, to snap, to be cruel and violent because they're hurting. that makes them more compelling, more layered. but not female characters, not maggie. sure, fans also blame daryl for his impulsive behaviour, but that doesn't stop him from being the most popular character. maggie has many moments when she's super cool (when she makes the deal with hilltop, when she hangs gregory) but those are never hyped like every single small moment when a man is a badass. or when they do the bare minimum tbh, people don't need much to stan a male character.

tl;dr: i absolutely adore maggie, and the fact that she has the best arc during the worst part of the show made me so invested in her story. all the hate she gets, and the reasons people give to justify hating her, are completely nonsensical to me. "we didn't watch the same show" levels of nonsense. i sincerely hope she's as unbearable as everyone says she is when she comes back. i hope she's nasty and i will love her even more for it!

#twd #okay that's finally off my chest 😮‍💨 normal again #no one talks about how fandom stupidity and misogyny makes u write an insanely long rant on tumblrdotcom 😔#the actual tl;dr is maggie my beloved they don't get you like i do

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variousqueerthings · 8 months

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Hello again!

Anon here, who asked for advice how to avoid River Song episodes.

First of all, thank you so much for your extremely detailed reply and all the work you put into it.😘

Wow… these upcoming storylines are wild, and reading about it made me cringe a few times. Also reading the summary of the events makes it look like the show’s focus shifted somewhat (more towards the personal/ romantic life of the Doctor???). But I’m sure that won’t be true for the story when I finally watch it, and it just seems like it now, because I read the summarized version.

I’m not sure if I already asked this in my original message… But, as you mentioned in your reply, season 9 is the last time River Song actually appears in DW, which seems kinda odd, given that they are married and she was foretold to be the most important person to the Doctor. Did they drop the character or the storyline??? Or is it still too early for their main story, and most of their time together is still a part of the future (of future seasons) ? Plus after reading your answer, I was wondering if the Doctor had time to get to know her as a person and fall in love with her at all? Maybe I’m thinking way to logical about a TV series “love story”. It all sounds just somewhat icky. Obsession turning into love etc.😕

(In the end I probably should stop guessing and start watching, with the help of your guide.)

And another question...

As implied, I haven’t started with s5 yet. So I was wondering if it would be advisable to watch the 60th DW anniversary episodes with David and Catherine now, given I just finished the Donna & Tenth Doctor arc? Or would it be too confusing without the s5 -s13 knowledge?

Thanks again for your detailed reply!

hello hello again!

I hope the guide is useful (I can fall into the trap of over-explaining that lead to a confusion for others, but hey, it's not for lack of enthusiasm that's for sure!)

I can tell you that there's a whole bunch of storyline that isn't related to the doctor and romance. there's some neat stuff with the doctor and the master (played by michelle gomez) in s8-s10 and I like about that narrative how much it throws itself into the un-nameability and complexity of their arc, but people can and do read it as romantic, which is totally fine. but point is it's far more open + the master and the doctor obvs have that... history

outside of river song, the arc of s5-7 isn't romance-based either (well, the ponds are romancing each other, but the doctor is kind of weirded out and/or curiously fascinated like a kid looking at bugs by the Rituals of the whole thing)

I think river song's narrative is over on the tv-show, because of how that final story in s9 ties it all together. there's this odd thing about the timeline of river song in her seasons where she talks about her and the doctor as if they're meeting backwards in chronological order (so for example at one point she kisses the doctor who's like "oh ok... first time for everything," and she answer sadly when he can't hear her that there's also a last), but this is definitely not actually the case, meaning theoretically she could come back, but if they nominally want to keep this idea of them meeting backwards, it's finished. it's doctor who though, and some characters come back after over 50 years off the show sometimes, so who can say

(I uh... personally don't think the doctor was ever written properly as falling in love with river song and that it's very creepy in its whole construction and that river song never seems to have agency in her narrative, right up until she gets trapped in the library for apparently all eternity to "save" her, but then m*ffat has had the doctor seemingly "falling" for a woman who's been into him since childhood twice now (girl in the fireplace), not to mention that amy pond -- while he does not reciprocate thank goodness -- also meets the doctor as a kid first and as an adult wants to have sex with them, so... that's just a weird thing m*ffat does a few times)

but you don't really get that narrative with the watchlist I gave you, because river song barely exists outside of narratives that are actually about the doctor (no really, she's almost always doing things because of the doctor, for the doctor, so the doctor will notice her, or talking about the doctor)/in which she's a plot-point, it's one of the reasons I actually quite like her final episode -- the doctor falls into her adventure, rather than her assisting his narrative (and it turns out the doctor knows next to nothing about her life, which is frankly another embarrassing anti-endorsement to this fuckn "romance") and that format... actually works for me, it's frustrating how it gives a tidbit of a story that might have been quite fun -- still not the romance though, go away

as for the last question: I know some people who watched the Specials before watching m*ffat or chibnall eras (I actually watched the Specials before I watched most of thirteen, just because I couldn't wait, but I had spoiled myself for the major stuff of that era beforehand). there is character development and plot and lore that gives the Specials extra Spice for sure -- I think the main thing that is Very Good in terms of going the long way around is that one of the core themes of the Specials, the doctor's sheer exhaustion and loss, is really felt a whole lot more, buuuut tbh, I think there's a lot of fun in having seen the Specials first and then going back and building to it, with the second time around being "ohhh so that's why- yeah, yeah this Creechur needs a holiday or something!!!" sometimes knowing where things end actually adds to the fun, youknow

but hold on, I'll ask from a direct source: @aq2003 you watched the Specials first and then went back to catch up, do you feel solid about that decision-making in hindsight?

(in the end though, seriously, watch the specials if you're impatient -- I don't subscribe to delayed gratification. get gratified in any order you want, that's more my personal speed, it'll be fun either way)

#anon ❤#no way to write the word *gratified* without it coming out wrong somehow oh well #we know what's meant #if you want some headline Things Wot Happened to know where we meet the doctor in the specials I can give them to you but honestly #apart from some direct mentions of a few things -- past companions some big Lore Moments in thirteen's era #they're quite accessible I think

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 10 months

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(non spn watcher here) when did destial become a canon love story with writer intent? like was there more destiel-ness in the season leading up to the nov 5th confession?

Okay *cracks knuckles*.

First and foremost, I'm gonna tell you about my SPN history. I started watching SPN and got caught up with the show while s10 was airing and was watching live until the end of s12. I gave up specifically because Castiel's s11 plot proved to be just on the side of too miserable for me, and s12 didn't really make it any better (Cas dies at the end of that season). During this time, and until Nov 5th 2020, I was solidly on camp "Dean and Cas are never going to be canon just because of what SPN is fundamentally as a show, and even if they did, I cannot imagine a situation where it would be a good thing for Cas given SPN's track record on how they treat the angel."

When Nov 5th happened I was sucked back into the show. In preparation for the finale I watched all of s13-15 in the two weeks between the confession episode and the finale. Again, my perspective going into this endeavour was still very doubtful and pessimistic, specifically on the Dean side of the equation.

The beginning of s13 was a bit of a shock to me, honestly. It starts with what the fandom calls 'The Widower's Arc'. I think this was the arc that most solidly cements the feelings from Dean's side. It was so vehement in pointing out that Dean feels for Cas in a way so distinguished from how Sam does. In the very first episode of the season (so the first episode I watched after going back into SPN), Dean quietly wraps Cas' body with a curtain all by himself in a sunlit room. And I go Oh. Okay.

This vibe does wane after Cas comes back and regular SPN hijinks ensues. S14 actually ends with Dean and Cas fighting and Dean doing his usual Dean-isms. 15.03 is when that fight culminates: they break up and spend a couple episodes apart from each other.

15.09 The Trap features Dean and Cas in purgatory, and this was Truly An Episode. They bicker through-out the entire thing and are pretty pissed at one another, but then Cas gets taken, and Dean desperately prays to him, confesses his anger issues, forgives Cas and asks for forgiveness back. Later, they reunite, and Cas acknowledges that he heard everything Dean said.

This episode is so interesting to me because it culminates the Dean and Cas fight-separation-reconciliation plot of s15, and in doing so confirms it to be as important as it is. I cannot point enough that the plot reasons for the stuff happening in 15.09 is so pointless. They go to purgatory for a fetch quest for an item that can be interchangeable with literally anything else, specifically to put Dean and Cas back in purgatory (a meaningful place for them), have them be separated, and have the prayer happen. The whole point of the Dean and Cas portion of the episode is to do character work. We don't even see the scene where Cas finally gets the thing they're here to acquire in the first place. That's literally not the point. The point is Cas and Dean's story. S15 is the last season of a show with so many big things to wrap up, and they make it a point to have Dean and Cas go through a half-season arc that DOES occupy so much of the season and brings a new openness, vulnerability, and room for development into their relationship.

So yeah, before 15.18 there WAS very visible marks of the fact that Something was gonna happen. Interestingly enough all those marks were pretty dean-centric. I would say s4-10 destiel is the audience being inundated that Cas loves Dean. S11-15, ESPECIALLY 13-15 is so very much making it known that Dean loves Cas too.

On a related note, on Nov 21, 2020, a post is made here on tumblr claiming that around Dec 2016 (S12 was airing at this point), Warner Bros. conducted a market research about Supernatural, and from this person's experience, specifically about Dean and Cas and Dean's sexuality (link to a post that confirms the information in the post to be true). This market research was during the time leading up to s13, which I think does mark a big change in how the love between Dean and Cas started being framed by the show as something Dean both feels and is also aware of.

So, to answer your questions.

Was there more destiel-ness in the season leading up to the nov 5th confession? Yes.

When did destiel become a canon love story with writer intent? It became a canon love story by S15, but the writer intent to make it canon goes way back to s13 but probably even s12.

- Grey :))

#asks #thank u for this ask it IS fun to exercise my destiel muscle

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addictedtostorytelling · 6 months

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Thank you for your thoughtful answer about Abby Fisher! You sort of answered this in your original response, but if you wouldn't mind elaborating, how would you have written an arc like that? In canon, we see Sara connect to so many victims/survivors in a way that impacts her own mental wellbeing, and I am wondering what it might look like if that connection was maybe drawn out longer than the arc of one episode, especially because the Abby plot has all the holes you pointed out.

hi, anon!

unsurprisingly, my answer got away from me here, so in case you don't want to read this whole monstrosity, the tl;dr version is:

i'd move the storyline up, making both sara and the kid older when it took place. i'd also show their relationship develop in real time as opposed to inserting it into previously established narrative as a retcon. from there, i'd change certain details to make it more feasible that sara and the kid could stay in contact. finally, i'd put different kinds of narrative pressure on sara to make her more willing and able to open up to the kid regarding her own past.

much, much longer version after the "keep reading," if you're interested.

so to start off here, let's discuss the background specs for this potential arc:

as mentioned in the previous post, i'm convinced this storyline would actually work better and be more viable if it were to take place with an older sara who had already "come out the other side" on her s4/s5 story arc and achieved some stability and healing in her life.

i just can't really see her being prepared to adopt a mentorship role for a vulnerable child probably any earlier than s6.

that said, i also think the most ideal time for the story to unfold would be sometime after her breakdown in s8/s9, as well.

for me, the real sweet spot with her would probably be in the s10/s11 range, when she is happy, settled, stable, and thriving (and also has some free time on her hands because grissom is living abroad).

i'm likewise of the opinion that the story itself would work better if we saw sara's bond with the kid in question develop in real time, as opposed to being told about its development long after the fact (and being asked to believe that sara has maintained this really significant and even life-changing relationship for the past ten years that we have nevertheless known nothing about until present).

along those same lines, i also think the storyline would work better if the kid in question were older than five years-old when sara actually bonded with them.

the kid can still be around early elementary school-age (between 5 and 8 years-old) during the commission of the original crime that puts them into contact with csi, but when sara finally gets to know them and adopts that mentorship role in their life, they should be older, between 15 and 18 years-old.

though i don't actually believe sara is bad with small children—again, i am the one writing a sprawling geek!baby au right now—i think the fact that she thinks she is bad with small children would make her reluctant to try to befriend one (see, for example, her protestations to grissom about taking care of brenda collins in episode 01x07 "blood drops").

that so, i tend to suppose she would have an easier time dropping her guard and bonding with a somewhat older foster child in the preteen to teen age group than she would with a literal kindergartener.

i also think that her dynamic with an older kid would just plain be more interesting than one with a younger kid (because older kids can be held morally and intellectually accountable in ways younger kids can't).

as for the kid's foster situation, i think that whereas episode 15x12 "dead woods" has abby fisher in a relatively new placement with foster parents who don't know her as well as sara supposedly does, in this scenario, it would work better to say that the kid had been in the current placement for several years and that their foster parents know them well.

since sara seemingly never experienced that kind of long-term stability in a single placement herself—according to her conversation with glynnis in episode 05x10 "no humans involved," she bounced around a lot—she might end up being a little bit weird and flighty about the kid's situation in an "i'm not quite sure how to relate" type of way that would make this whole scenario more interesting.

so then thinking of the scenario itself:

let's imagine this story as a three-episode arc (which i'm going to title the "memoriae sacrum" arc).

like i said in my other post, i'm not 100% married to the "foster kid realizes, ten years ex post facto, that their father was not in fact a murderer" storyline (particularly as i find it somewhat ham-fisted), but for the purposes of this thought exercise, we can more or less stick to those bare bones.

that said, one element from the original storyline we're definitely not going to retain is the part where they retconned the nature of sara's father's abuse from what we had always known it to be in earlier seasons.

episode 1

in real life, gary dourdan became a persona non grata at cbs after he left csi under unpleasant circumstances back in 2008—hence the reason why tptb at the show never brought warrick back even in flashback in any subsequent seasons.

that so, if these were "real episodes," there'd probably be no way to swing an appearance from him.

however, let's imagine this arc more like a fic, where we can play around with what characters we want.

so let's say that back in 2000 or 2001 or so, sara and warrick work an apparent murder-suicide case together wherein a father seemingly kills his wife and eldest child and severely wounds his youngest child, shooting them*, before dispatching of himself.

* i don't really think the gender of the kid would matter, so imagine what you like here. this kid can still be abby fisher or it could be anyone else. i'm going to use they/them pronouns in reference to the kid to leave the possibilities open.

whereas in the original case, the killings took place at a mountain campsite, let's say, in this one, they happen inside the family home (which makes them even more similar to sara's own family tragedy and also adds to the circumstantial evidence suggesting the father is the cuprit).

at this time, sara is still a csi level ii, so warrick, at csi level iii, is the actual lead on the case.

the youngest child's injuries are profound. however, when they do eventually come-to enough, warrick is able to interview them.

(sara plays no part in the interviews by her own choosing and never interacts with the kid herself at any point during the investigation.)

unfortunately, the kid is unable to provide any kind of useful information to warrick, as, at this time, they are very young and the situation is so traumatic that they simply can't recall much. they also may have sustained injuries during the attack which impact their cognitive abilities/memory*.

* whereas in episode 15x12 "dead woods," abby fisher is rather improbably shown to survive a close-range gunshot to the head with no long-term impact to her cognitive abilities, i think it'd be more realistic for injury to either be entirely noncerebral in nature or to result in some actual traumatic brain injury symptoms.

warrick being warrick bonds with the child pretty immediately—seriously: one of the joys of the early seasons is watching warrick interact with kids, like when he used to babysit lindsey willows or when he interviews suzy in episode 07x10 "loco motives"—and, as is often his wont with child victims of the crimes he investigates, gives his contact information to them and/or their new social worker, telling them to get in touch with him again in case they ever remember anything and/or even just want to talk about the case with him when they're older and interested in learning the facts.

however, in the absence of any testimony from the child which might suggest differently, the evidence in the case does seem to (more or less) indicate the father's guilt.

since the father is dead along with the rest of the family, there's no one to arrest, so, in consultation with grissom, warrick closes the case—a decision sara has no real reason to question at the time.

particularly as, even back then, as would be shown in the flashback scenes, the case does squeeg her out and somewhat trigger her, given its likeness to her own family history, and she feels like the sooner she can move on from it, the better.

fast forward to ten years later, to 2010 or 2011 (i.e., s10 or s11).

at this point, said surviving child, now an older teenager, appears in the lobby of the crime lab one morning at the tail end of the graveyard shift, requesting to see warrick.

of course, by this time, warrick is dead, so once it's determined what the kid wants—which is apparently to discuss their family's case—sara is summoned to meet with them, as she was the other investigator back in 2000/2001.

and let's say the detective on the case was ray o'riley, who is also, by 2010/2011, canonically deceased, so he's not available, either.

sara is, initially, shown to be uncomfortable at this prospect, citing the fact that she's not warrick and doesn't "have a way with kids" like he used to. however, since she is the only csi still working at the lab who has any direct knowledge of the case and its details—grissom signed off on it as supervisor back in the day, but of course he's no longer on staff—she's pushed into taking the meeting, never mind her objections.

here, i'm picturing ecklie being like, "come on, sidle, just deal with this. it was your case."

she initially tries to be very formal with the kid, but it should be clear to the audience that she's wildly uncomfortable and masking.

however, while her going line is that she's "just not good with kids," between the flashbacks and the real-time scenes, the true source of her discomfiture quickly becomes apparent: namely, the whole "orphan whose one parent killed the other in front of them" likeness between her and this kid in particular.

at first, she assumes the kid has come to the lab because, now that they are old enough, they want to hear the full details on their family's case, as per warrick's offer to them back in 2000/2001 (of which sara is aware because warrick wrote it on the business card he gave to the kid and/or their social worker back in the day).

however, to her great surprise, the kid corrects her: they've actually come to provide new testimony in their family's case, based on some newly retrieved memories of theirs.

much like in canon, they would explain that something had recently caused them to remember details about the murder they were unable to remember previously—and these details contradict the notion that their father was the murderer.

however, let's say that in this version of the story, this recollection on their part happens under even more dubious circumstances than the ones in abby fisher's case, like while the kid is under hypnosis or experimenting with hallucinogenic mushrooms or undergoing a controversial form of therapy or the like.

much as in canon, sara is skeptical, believing the kid simply wants to "rewrite their family history" (an impulse she understands but doesn't necessarily condone).

let's say unlike in canon: the thing that draws sara to this kid even more than just the similarities between their respective family histories is their personality.

honestly? the kid is whip-smart and well-spoken but also angry and rough around the edges; blunt and a little bit awkward, etc.

they match sara pretty much toe-to-toe during this interview, countering her every argument.

when sara tries to let them down gently and tell them that in the absence of any new physical evidence, there's no reason for the crime lab to reopen what seems to have been an open-and-shut case, they get in her face, citing (obviously researched) precedents re: the legitimacy of their chosen memory recovery techniques to her in an attempt to change her mind.

with all of their tenacity, it's hard not to be reminded of her younger self.

but in that resemblance, it's also hard for her not to think of how she operated as a young csi: that tendency she had to "chase rabbits" and let her feelings get in the way of her professional judgment.

she remembers how often she used to be disappointed back then; how she'd get her heart hung up on certain outcomes and then have it shattered when they didn't pan out.

let's say—again, since we're pretending we can get whatever "guest stars" we want here—that after sara goes home for the day, this dilemma is one she talks to grissom (on one of his visits to the states) about, explaining to him that for as much as this kid may want her to start digging, it's possible they may not like what she finds if she does, and she'd hate to cause them even more pain.

she opens up to him: she knows what it feels like to be this kid.

maybe she even admits that when she surreptitiously searched through her mom's legal files back in 2004 (see episode 05x10 "no humans involved"), she was hoping to find not "exonerating" information, per se—as her mother's guilt was never really in question—but at least some new context that might have helped her to better understand or come to terms with her mother's actions, or at least to fill in some of the blanks in her memories.

so she gets the impulse, you know?

(of course, she notes, she never did find any previously unknown information to contextualize her mother's crime. there's nothing that could ever really ameliorate "abused schizophrenic wife brutally stabs alcoholic abuser husband to death in his sleep," is there? the whole situation was just as awful and senseless as she always remembered.)

now, she wonders what her role is here as the adult: to play the realist and put her foot down, telling the kid there is no probative evidence to suggest their father's innocence; or to actually listen to the kid and reopen the investigation (because she understands how often kids—and especially foster kids—tend to have their thoughts and feelings discounted and she doesn't intend to be one of those grownups who just brushes off everything a kid says simply because they are a kid)?

at this point, grissom gives her a nudge: asks her when she looked through her mother's files what she felt when she discovered that there was no "hidden context" and things were always just as bleak and awful as she'd always known they were.

her realization: she accepted it.

was disappointed, but accepted it.

because at least then she knew for sure, you know?

and with that determination, sara decides to reopen the case, securing permission from catherine (who is at this time her supervisor) to do so, albeit perhaps more in a "well, i guess i can't really stop you" way than an "i fully support you in this endeavor" one.

she also enlists greg to help her—or rather, he volunteers because he remembers running dna on the original case back in the day, recalling some unknown exemplar collected from the crime scene he couldn't find a match to then and wanting to follow up on it now that codis is a more fully-developed technology.

the next morning, when the kid once again turns up at the lab, sara gives them the news that she's officially reopening the case, though she makes sure to stress: she's not promising them anything.

even with that caution, the kid still lights up.

for the first time, sara sees them smile—and on the one hand, it obviously terrifies her, having all this kid's hopes rest on her, but on the other, she also can't help but feel somewhat exhilarated, offering this kid at least a chance at an outcome she never had available to herself.

episode 2

this episode marks the beginning of sara's investigation in earnest.

the physical evidence in the original case is both limited and ambiguous in nature.

there were no signs of breaking and entering at the house.

the family members were shot with a gun belonging to the kid's father, and his prints were found on the weapon, which was recovered from next to his body, right where one would expect to find it had he dropped it after committing suicide.

however, there was also a pair of microfiber gloves found next to the father's body, which, while roughly the same size as his hands, were not ones the kid recognizes as belonging to their father.

sara and warrick's going theory at the time was that he had worn the gloves to shoot his family members but then taken them off to shoot himself, though they couldn't figure out why he would have done so, given that he didn't necessarily need to conceal his identity as the killer, his intention always being to commit suicide in the end.

inside the gloves, there is one unsmudged print. however, it is seemingly unrecoverable, due to the nature of the fabric.

the mystery dna greg couldn't match back in 2000/2001 comes from a sweaty handprint on a door handle to a part of the house seemingly out of the way of the murders; it doesn't belong to any of the family members, though it's unknown as of yet to whom it does belong or if it is even probative.

there is also circumstantial evidence to suggest that the kid's father may have been experiencing financial troubles at the time of the murders and that the kid's mother may have been having an affair back then, as well, of which her husband had perhaps recently become aware.

there was nothing at the scene to indicate anyone in the family struggled with assailants prior to their deaths, and both the mother and elder sibling were covered over with blankets, indicating remorse on the part of their killer.

meanwhile, the kid's "recovered memory" suggests that the man who came into their bedroom that night had some distinguishing physical characteristic that their father didn't have.

in episode 15x12 "dead woods," abby fisher's memory centers on a distinctive smell, and maybe the same thing could be the case here, though there might also be some other difference instead; i don't suppose this point really matters much, in terms of the overall story arc.

sara decides to run everything from the top, grissom-style (see episode 01x12 "fahrenheit 932").

of course, in this scenario, the added "warrick of it all" would throw a new wrinkle into the whole operation, as she would be sifting through his old work, potentially looking to overturn it.

imagine: once word gets out that sara is revisiting this case, nick becomes upset with her for distrusting warrick's original determination, feeling as if she is just being contrary and maybe even taking advantage of the fact that warrick isn't around to defend his own conclusions anymore.

and for what?

all because some weirdo (possibly drugged-up) teenager dreamt up a pseudo-memory ten years after the fact?

of course, given his ignorance of sara's past, nick doesn't understand sara's sense of personal connection with (and obligation to) this kid—and especially not because sara is trying with all her might to repress her own feelings and memories and "remain objective" on this case, not allowing her own trauma to color either her investigation OR her interactions with the kid.

—speaking of whom.

the kid turns up again at the lab for what is now a third morning in a row to check on sara's progress.

whereas in all of their previous encounters, the kid has had this somewhat surly attitude—think sara fending off grissom's inquiries about her "diversions" in episode 01x16 "too tough to die"—now, they are starting to come out of their shell.

while it's not a total transformation just yet (much like sara, this kid has been burned a lot and is fairly "slow to warm up"), they are becoming gradually more animated and expressing curiosity about sara and greg's investigative activities.

while it's clear they're trying not to get their hopes up too much—per sara's caution—it's also clear they're not fully succeeding in that trying.

more and more, they're becoming invested.

—and so is sara, who, despite her general trepidations about being "bad with kids," finds herself getting along with this one, especially as she starts to see their personality emerge out from behind that façade of jadedness, and especially as the kid starts to speak somewhat more freely about what their life in foster care has been like for the last ten years.

though sara lets on nothing to the kid regarding her own time in the system, we as the audience should be able to tell: the instability and uncertainty of "living with strangers," of always being the "odd kid out," is something she can very much relate to, and she feels for this kid.

deeply.

unfortunately, the gods of forensics don't seem to be on their side: it seems like whatever new investigative avenues sara and greg develop all eventually terminate in dead ends.

the mystery dna isn't in codis.

the details from the kid's memories are hard to get a fix on.

as the episode goes on, sara's stress grows.

she's still fielding passive-aggression from nick, who resents her taking on the case in the first place, and she is also starting to feel pressure from catherine and/or ecklie, who are annoyed with her for continually tying up department resources (including both herself and greg) as she pursues admittedly flimsy leads in a ten year-old solved case.

worse: the more time she spends with the kid, the harder she's finding it to keep her personal feelings out of the case AND out of her interactions with them.

despite her best efforts, she's getting her heartstrings tangled up in the investigation and in them.

she's also thinking about memories from her own past that she hasn't allowed herself to think about for a long time, and she's, frankly, worse for the wear for it.

after a hard shift fraught with disappointment for both her and the kid, she goes home to grissom, and we get a cuddling in bed scene where she admits, somewhat tearfully, to him that there is still so much she doesn't know about what happened between her parents; so much she can't remember either because it all happened when she was still so young or else because she's repressed it.

memory can be a fickle thing, grissom muses, and she agrees.

tells him she doesn't remember when her mom first got sick or why she (seemingly) never received treatment. doesn't remember when her father's abuse started. doesn't remember why her mother never tried to leave or if she perhaps did but maybe somehow failed. she can't recall what, if anything, precipitated the murder—if her dad's abuse of her mom had recently gotten worse or if her mom just finally after so many years snapped or if her mom's delusions perhaps had become stronger or more violent in nature.

she admits: there is so much about that night she has actively tried to forget and so much she is terrified she will someday be triggered to, against her will, remember.

worried about her, grissom wonders if maybe she should hand this case over to greg, but she tells him she feels she owes it to the kid to keep going, at least until she can definitively say whether or not their father was involved in the murders (regardless of if they ever identify any other potential suspects outside of him).

resolved, sara returns to work the next night.

however, as she starts to dig into the case again, she still isn't coming up with anything to challenge the original narrative.

at a team meeting, nick (who, remember, is the assistant supervisor on grave shift at this point) motions for her and greg to shelve the case, as active/current cases have been piling up in the meanwhile "and warrick already solved this one ten years ago anyway." sara pleads to be allowed to continue her investigation, and catherine compromises by pulling greg off the case while allowing sara to continue to work it solo. she also presents sara with a hard deadline: if she hasn't come up with anything probative by the end of the week, then she's got to drop the whole thing and move onto something new.

the kid appears—like clockwork—the next morning and, upon sara's dismal report, practically begs her to keep going, pushing her to dig deeper, to try just one more thing, please, please.

it's here where, overwhelmed by facing so much opposition on all sides, triggered, mixed-up, and half-defeated, sara finally snaps at the kid—says something harsh about how you can't rewrite history just because you want to; tells them that they have to learn to accept the fact that their father was a bad man, and there's nothing anyone can do to change that reality.

at this point, for the first time, the kid—who, until now, has been very tough and even recalcitrant—breaks.

starts crying.

and sara immediately feels awful.

apologizes—and, in an attempt to extend an olive branch—admits (in her awkward but heartfelt sara way) that she was maybe talking more about herself and her father than she was about them and theirs.

slowly, hesitantly, she tells the kid an abridged version of her story, enough that they also can see the similarities between their experience and sara's and know that she understands where they're coming from.

earnestly, she tells them: she wishes more than anything in the world that she could tell them for sure that their father was innocent and that she could find "the real killer" and lock them away.

but the truth, she says, is that that answer may not be the right one, however attractive it may seem.

she gets real with the kid: without more details, there's starting to be nowhere left to go in this case.

the kid offers to try more of the memory recovery technique—i.e., the hypnosis or the shrooms or the therapy—to help in the effort.

but sara tells them: memory is unreliable, and that technique is unproven.

better to stick to science.

she vows, for now, to keep going.

the kid is grateful to her, expressing that they feel like she "just gets it."

cut to the final shot of the episode: sara appearing super conflicted—honored, on the one hand, to have won this kid's trust, rare commodity that it is; but terrified, on the other, that she is still ultimately going to end up letting them down, which is the absolute last thing in the world she wants to do.

episode 3

insert sara wracking her brain to come up with one last avenue of potential investigation here.

eventually, she comes back to the latent print in the microfiber glove—one piece of evidence that was never run back in 2000/2001.

she thinks the print could be the key to unlocking this case now.

however, recovery will be nearly impossible using traditional collection methods.

even with mandy's help, there's no clear answer as to how to lift the print off of the microfiber without destroying it and while still maintaining all its ridge detail.

as the end of the work week is rapidly approaching, sara fears her time to investigate may well run out before she can derive a solution to her problem. not only does she feel like she's letting the kid down but also in a weird way warrick, who she knows would have done everything in his power to get to the truth, were he still around to run this investigation instead of her.

but just as she is about to succumb to total despair, who should approach her but nick, offering up a memory of his own?

—namely, a technique warrick taught him back in the day that might be applicable to her problem.

cue both nick and sara doing their best warrick impersonations: "i can pull a fingerprint off the air!"

of course, there's no guarantee warrick's technique will work, and it could still result in the destruction of the print. however, it is the best option sara has yet encountered.

so, when the foster kid appears at the lab the next morning, sara poses the choice to them: do they want her to take this one-in-a-million chance (knowing that it could well destroy the only remaining physical evidence that might possibly exonerate their father in the process of so doing) or do they perhaps want to hold off in the hopes that technology will eventually advance to the point where the print will be recoverable by some other, less invasive means sometime in the eventual future?

though they are nervous about the prospect, the kid ultimately decides to take the chance.

so sara pulls the print and is successful in so doing. however, she also destroys the surface from which she pulled the print as she collects it, meaning that the print now only exists in digital facsimile form.

mandy then runs the print, and eventually she determines: it doesn't belong to the kid's father.

its existence strongly suggests that another person was on scene during the commission of the murders and that they handled the murder weapon.

unfortunately, there are no hits on this mystery person's identity.

all of these determinations are made during the night, while the kid isn't at the lab, and sara knows that the next morning, she's going to have to tell the kid: while there's a possibility—and even a good one—that their father isn't to blame for the murders, as of yet, there is no empirical way to definitely prove as much, much less to find out who the real killer is.

and there may not ever be.

however, sara doesn't get the chance to tell the kid anything, because they don't turn up at the lab the next morning.

instead, their foster parent does.

come to find out, the kid had been lying to their foster parents, claiming they were going to early-morning "sat prep" and then beelining for the lab instead.

after one of the kid's friends accidentally let it slip to the foster parents that the kid had never actually attended any of the prep sessions, yesterday morning, the foster parents had trailed the kid to the lab. after the kid got home, they then confronted them.

now, upon discovering what the kid was up to, they have become concerned about the kid's level of investment in the case, fearing they are setting themselves up for a major letdown.

the foster parent explains the situation to sara.

apparently, after their family's murders, the kid bounced around in the system for years. during this time, they experienced all sorts of behavioral problems. earned a reputation with the dcfs as a "problem child."

the foster parent and their spouse were kind of a last-ditch solution; the only ones willing to take the kid in anymore.

it took them a while, but they were eventually able to earn the kid's trust and stabilize them.

now, after four or five years of living in their home, the kid is finally on an upswing: doing well in school, enjoying a social life, and just really thriving for the first time since the murders.

however, given the kid's obvious emotional investment in this case, their foster parent is worried that if they don't get the results they want, they might not be equipped to handle to the disappointment and could suffer a major backslide, right at a time when they're getting ready to "launch." the foster parent doesn't want to see them get derailed or "sacrifice their future for the past."

unaware that sara knows this fact all too well for herself, the foster parent explains: the stats on most "graduates" of the foster system are abysmal, so the best chance this foster kid has is to buckle down and study for the sat, get good grades, and attend college.

"that's their pathway out."

the foster parent has now come to sara in order to ascertain whether or not there is actually any hope that the kid will get the answer that they want, all said and done.

when sara explains the somewhat ambiguous outcome with the print, the foster parent decides not to tell the kid and asks sara for help in thinking up some way to "put the kid off the scent" for the time being, at least until they're emotionally prepared to hear potentially disappointing news.

though conflicted, sara suggests that the foster parent could perhaps tell the kid that she'd sent the print off to the fbi for further analysis and that it might be "in process" for a while (months or even years), and the foster parent thanks her for the idea, assuring her it's in the kid's best interest.

they also tell her: she shouldn't expect to see the kid back at the crime lab anytime soon, as it's probably not the best place for a teenager (and especially a traumatized teenager) to be hanging out before school everyday.

though sara outwardly expresses support for this decision, it's clear she's not 100% sold on the notion that concealing the truth is the best course of action here. she is also obviously devastated that she won't even get to say goodbye to this kid.

after her encounter with the foster parent, greg quickly sniffs out sara's upset, which she blames on the fact that she regrets not being able to get the kid a more straightforward answer.

however, he intuits: she's also sad because, despite all her protestations about not liking children, she's actually gotten attached to the kid, and now she's not going to see them again; she is going to miss them.

though he expects sara to resist this assertion, she surprises him by admitting he's right.

cut to a time jump.

the next morning.

and who should turn up at the lab but the kid, having snuck out on their foster parents yet again?

like sara, this kid has the uncanny ability to detect bullshit, and they're not buying the whole "fbi" story that their foster parents tried to sell them. they want to hear the truth from sara herself about her findings, even if it hurts, they say.

please.

at first, sara is reluctant to defy the kid's foster parents' wishes. she is also scared of sending the kid on a downward spiral and fucking up their life.

but then she realizes: she knows for herself how hard not knowing can be.

so she reaches deep inside herself, sits the kid down, and presents them with the truth in the best, most honest way she can think to, even though it's not altogether positive.

she admits: she can't tell them for certain that their father is innocent, though there's at least a chance he is. she also can't tell them who besides their father might potentially be to blame, though perhaps there is someone out there.

maybe, she conjectures, the databases will eventually kick out a match to that print or the dna that at the moment doesn't exist in their datasets; maybe technology will improve enough to someday fill in some of those blanks.

she'll absolutely keep trying, running the evidence periodically to see if anything turns up.

but in the meanwhile, there's no answer.

and there's also a chance that there will never be one.

on instinct, she confesses to the kid: she's never been certain if her mother habitually kept the knife she stabbed her father with under the pillow and pulled it out "in the heat of the moment" to defend herself OR if she had, in an act of premeditation, fetched it from downstairs after he fell asleep that night.

back when she was a kid, the detectives who worked her father's case had asked her, but she couldn't tell them.

and now she's never going to know.

"i keep trying to remember," she says, "the knife block in our kitchen. if there was an empty slot. if i heard her go back down the stairs and then up again. but i can't. that memory is just gone."

she's sorry, she says, she can't give the kid the answer they wanted.

but.

you can live with it.

there are ways to live with it.

someday, she promises, the kid will make other memories that their brain will allow them to retain; happy ones. they'll still carry the memories of their family with them, too. but they'll grow around the grief. have new experiences. give and receive love.

the kid ends up crying then, sobbing, totally unguarded and childlike, that they miss their family, and sara hugs them and says she knows, she knows.

cut to the end of the episode.

the kid's foster parents have come to pick them up from the lab.

they're apologetic to sara that the kid was "bothering her," but she tells them she doesn't mind. she also explains: she told the kid the truth, and they took it well.

"kids are more resilient than you think," she offers.

the foster parents agree.

they start to take the kid home, gently chastising them, on the way out the door, that now that they've skipped sat prep for a week, they're going to have to enroll in another session and take the course over again.

on hearing this statement, sara pipes up, "i could maybe help with that—if you want." stumblingly, she explains that she got a near-perfect score on the sat and attended harvard at age sixteen. "out of foster care," she adds.

and so it is that sara becomes this kid's tutor.

i imagine from this point, though the main storyline would be concluded, we (as the audience) would still see periodic evidence that sara was indeed keeping up with this kid and continuing to meet with them fairly regularly.

there could in time be other storylines for them.

if we want to go the tamer route:

maybe something to do with sara struggling to balance her work responsibilities with her new mentorship role.

alternatively or additionally, maybe her supporting the kid as they deal with some complicated feelings after their current foster parents propose adopting them.

on the one hand, they want to say yes, because they love their foster family and crave that sense of belonging. on the other hand, it feels like a betrayal to their bio family in some way, especially since they're so close to "aging out" anyhow.

maybe the kid meeting grissom and developing a relationship with him, too.

maybe the kid doing some kind of volunteer work or internship connected to the lab to help with their college applications, with sara supervising.

maybe them, with sara's help, starting a forensics club at their high school.

if we want to go the angstier route:

perhaps the kid still occasionally struggles. gets involved with substance abuse or has serious behavioral problems. ends up in trouble with the law, to the point that sara is obliged to confront them.

alternatively, maybe the kid has to unexpectedly move placements, and when they do, they confront sara: ask her why, if she supposedly cares so much, she doesn't offer to foster or adopt them herself. after all, aren't they close? doesn't she get it?

and who knows? maybe sara actually considers the possibility or even decides to go for it. has to broach the topic with grissom. reevaluate their lifestyle. could be an interesting development for both of them.

if we want to go the super angsty route:

turns out, the kid's dad didn't kill their family, and the real killer has somehow realized that the kid survived and the case has been reopened and that sara is periodically checking into it. maybe the killer then targets the kid, knowing they are the only person who could potentially identify them. maybe the kid is in real danger, and it's up to sara to catch the killer before they come to harm.

in any case, i'd definitely want to see more of sara interacting with this kid, building a real relationship with them over time—one that fit with her core characterization and didn't attempt to make her into something she wasn't.

excepting a scenario in which she did actually choose to foster or adopt this kid, i'd like her to toe that line, being a friend and supportive adult but not trying to fill the role of "mom."

i'd like to see her friendship with this kid challenge her in productive character ways and be consistently depicted, to the point where it was easy to believe that this bond was an important and regular part of her life.

anyway.

there would be other ways to write the whole thing than with this "memoriae sacrum" version, certainly.

but that's at least one way i could see the premise of "sara befriends a foster kid" working better than the option we're offered in canon.

thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.

#answered #anon #asks: csi #**#my meta #meta: csi #hypothetical scenario #let's talk shop #csiverse

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tea-earl-grey · 8 months

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for the ship game: Star Trek Voyager

Janeway/Seven, B'Elenna/Seven

Doctor Who:

Twelve/Missy, Thirteen/Master, Thirteen/Yaz, Doctor (of your choice!)/River

ooooh very good options here. this did however get insanely long so I'm going to put it under a cut:

Janeway/Seven – ship it:

What made you ship it?

Before I watched s4 of Voyager I knew that J7 was a popular ship and I was fully expecting to not like it because a lot of times relationships involving heavy power dynamics give me the ick but alas I find their relationship more and more compelling partially because of how unhealthy it could be if they became involved. I think I specifically started to fall more for the ship in the scene between Seven and Admiral Janeway in Endgame where the Admiral is trying to convince Seven to go with the plan and save her own life if not for herself then for "the people who love you." And it definitely wasn't the writers' intention but it so clearly read as Janeway trying to tell Seven that she loved her.

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

The strange mutual devotion they have. Janeway literally gave Seven a new life and personhood so there was zero chance that Seven would ever have a normal relationship to Janeway but despite what could be a very deferential relationship, Seven is constantly challenging Janeway and pointing out her own flaws in a way that no one else on Voyager really does. And after Seven became an independent person, there was no reason why Janeway had to be so involved in Seven's life but anytime Seven was in danger of dying (Imperfection, Endgame) Janeway became so laser focused on doing anything to save her life even if it violates her own morals and destroys others in the process.

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I don't think this is that unpopular of an opinion but they should absolutely never become canon and I'm not even that interested in fanfic where they have any sort of traditional romance. Any actual relationship with them is going to be short and full of all sorts of Big Emotions that they'll both try to run away from and it will end badly.

B'Elanna/Seven – ship it:

What made you ship it?

B'Elanna/Seven is one of those ships that I didn't really consider on my first watch through probably because they don't share a ton of scenes but after reading some meta on it and going back to some of the really good moments they have... yeah it does kind of slap.

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

At first all that really stood out to me in their interactions was being kind of adversarial and getting into arguments but as I went back to look at the show, the few soft moments they get together hit so hard. Especially as I think B'Elanna starts to understand Seven's struggles more as she unpacks her own trauma and realizes they share a lot of the same insecurities and fears.

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I think both of them would rather die than admit if they have feelings for each other but idk if that's an unpopular opinion or not.

Twelve/Missy – ship it (but queerplatonically):

What made you ship it?

I've been a huge huge fan of both Twelve and Missy and their dynamic since 2014 so I think it was inevitable that I would start to see them in a shippy light but thinking back it really wasn't until the last scene of The Eaters of Light in s10. I swear I could write an essay on just that scene and the depths it says about their relationship but my brain is currently doing nothing but screeching about it.

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

THE TRAGEDY. It's the fact that to fulfill their character arcs and to be good without hope, without witness, without reward, they can't be happy, they can't be friends, they can't be. And also the use of the word friendship in their relationship drives me absolutely insane because for them friendship is treated as the ultimate expression of love. As the first m/f Doctor/Master ship, I think there was always a possibility to interpret their relationship as more transparently romantic than previous dynamics but the writing just completely avoids this. There's never a focus on if they are or were ever romantically/sexually involved, that's not the point, the point is friendship which runs so much deeper than attraction for them and it's something I really relate to as someone on the aroace spectrum where to me friendship is always more important and sacred then any romantic feelings. And it's so rare that I've ever seen that expressed clearly in fiction but is done over and over again in Twelve's era and really connects with me.

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I don't think so? I don't look for fic or anything specifically for their relationship so idk if my opinions are unpopular or not.

Thirteen/Master – don't ship it:

Why don’t you ship it?

I'll be honest that aside from Twelve/Missy (and maybe Three/Delgado!Master) I'm not a huge Doctor/Master shipper. I fully endorse whatever Weird Shit they have going on, it's just not that compelling to me aside from a few good moments. I also have a bit of a bone to pick that I just don't feel like the Dhawan!Master was used to his full potential and I have difficulty understanding his character which is a shame because Sacha Dhawan does an excellent job!

2. What would have made you like it?

The most compelling Doctor/Master relationships to me are when they're built with both antagonism and friendship and Thirteen/Dhawan!Master is just leaning too heavily on the antagonism side for me. I would have been more sold on it if the Master's O disguise went on for longer to get at some more fun aspects of their relationship or if Dhawan!Master had more appearances where he wasn't the main villain so that there could be a more bantery/relaxed aspect of their relationship.

3. Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

I do love how throughout Thirteen's era, the Master keeps tempting her to become a worse version of herself (which would have been another fun thing to explore in more depth). They're insane and they deserve each other <3

Thirteen/Yaz – i ship it... but in a unrequited way

What made you ship it?

Listen – young idealistic woman gets a crush on mysterious alien with layers of unrevealed trauma and then is irrevocably changed by this relationship is a tried and tested trope for Doctor Who and Doctor/Yaz is no different.

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

Yaz's whole Doctorification arc is really tasty to me and the interesting ways it differs from Clara's Doctorification arc. Clara was never afraid to stand up to the Doctor and tell them off and be the moral backbone even as she got more and more reckless. But Yaz both reveres the Doctor in a sort of blind devotion way and is trying to be like her which is such a yummy contradiction that I wish was explored more. And I also love the idea of the Doctor knowing and realizing this all along but never saying anything or actually trying to help Yaz be better because there's always a part of the Doctor that loves to be worshipped.

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I don't think the Doctor loves Yaz back? At least not in the way Yaz needs or wants. Yaz loves the Doctor and craves intimacy and closeness but grew dependent on the Doctor to provide that close relationship. Tbh I'm glad they never had a kiss or anything because the real mark of development was the Doctor being able to recognize Yaz's feelings and tell her that she needs to leave because Yaz deserves someone better who can truly care for her in the ways that the Doctor just isn't in a place to do. (I don't actually know if that's what Power of the Doctor was trying to say but eh I like my interpretation.) Also like a lot of ships, I think fans sometimes have a tendency of reducing it to "cute sapphic ship!" when that is so deeply not the vibe for me. They're messy and we should let them be messy.

Doctor/River – ship it

What made you ship it?

I was pretty meh on Doctor/River (partially because I usually hc the Doctor on the aroace spectrum) but then the Husbands of River Song hit me over the head with a wrench and I discovered that I really really like Twelve/River especially as that episode presents it.

2. What are your favorite things about the ship?

I think like a lot of semi/unrequited Doctor/companion romances, River is inherently very devoted to the Doctor and occasionally shows those bits of blind faith that the Doctor is a noble hero and almost a godlike figure. But she also has the self-awareness that the Doctor won't ever feel the same devotion as her and that's okay! She knows that they still love her in their own way and it's not lesser. Oh and on a more surface level, I do genuinely adore their banter and they way they just get each other. They've got that synergy. Basically everything I love about them can be summarized by this scene:

3. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

Hmmm. I'm not a huge fan of Eleven/River just because a lot of the more toxic aspects of that dynamic are unexplored and as with a lot of season 6, the writing feels a bit immature. I genuinely really like Steven Moffat's writing but god please stop writing sex jokes. However. I don't think that's an unpopular opinion these days.

#sorry this got so long but i have Thoughts!#i deeply need to go to sleep but thank you for reawakening all my feelings about Twelve and Missy #ask game #my posts #asks

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