#Duffers

[doyoulikedem]

gm byler nation!

just dropping in with a reminder for if you're ever having byler doubt!

just think about this for a second:

the duffer brothers would have had no reason to acknowledge/confirm or even establish will's love for mike (and therefore byler, by extension) if not to have a confession/confrontation included in the next season of the show.

if they had pretended the romantic tension between mike and will hadn't existed in the first place then yes, it would be queerbating, but they might have been able to slip away with it (legally, maybe not emotionally) whilst still maintaining a shred of plausible deniability.

but now seeing as they have acknowledged will's sexuality and the object of his affections (😏) and managed to boost byler to be equally, if not more popular than the "true" canon ship, they now are obligated to acknowledge it in the show, especially as they talk about season 5 focusing on will coming into himself more.

now if we put two and two together, we will remember milkvan's . umm. ?issues, and the amount of season 5 bts we've got of each pair respectively up to this point, with mike and will seeming to almost always be together, as well as their promises of being a "team" this season, and realise that if a confrontation has/is going to happen, wouldn't the bts we're getting look a little bit. idk. different??

i, for one, highly doubt that the duffer brothers would have will confess and then be turned down by mike (because come on.

a) what type of representation is that even &

b) why would they even include that? it would just be useless and take away from the mainplot of the story &

c) not acknowledging byler at this point would be blatant queer-bating. as was touched on before.

d) mike is also in love with will, they just can't come out and say it as not to spoil the ?surprise? and spark any controversy before the release of the new season.)

and seriously.

the history that would be made with such an iconic romantic subplot?? hello??????. they can't let all of their plotting and parallels and hints and hard work go to waste. they wouldnt.

therefore, the confrontation must have gone.. *shocked, stunned gasping* .. well???? for byler????

i am SHOCKED.

anyways.

byler doubt? don't know her 💗🌈

byler endgame!!

[ilenissu]

HEAR ME OUT. Corroded Coffin doing a cover of Teenage Dirtbag but when it comes to Noelle's part, the lights go out and there's just a grainy voice recording of Steve singing the part.

"I've got two tickets to Iron Maiden, baby

Come with me Friday, don't say maybe

I'm just a teenage dirt bag, baby

Like you"

Thank you for your attention, have a good day.

[byler-com]

I think one of the biggest Byler proofs is just the fact that the duffers told Noah that Will is going to have a happy ending. Like, hello? I really don’t think Will can be truly really 100% happy if he’s not with Mike. He is head over heels in love. If Mike rejects him or ends up with El then Will just stays in a wierd unrequited love thing. Idk if y’all know but a happy ending isn’t being in love with someone that doesn’t love you back. Byler cannon in s5 100%.

[hnbka]

the where's waldo nonsense that they're making us pull

[bluemeetsyellowwest]

They really said you all thought we were giving him different hair style 😭 sorry to all you long haired will byers fans. Hair is looking soft tho!

[navnae]

I don’t care! I need my pizza boy and himbo to at least talk or something. I need it more than air at this point, give i to me!!!

[queerxqueen]

out of curiosity, what do you think the duffers could have done to help mitigate the homophobic fandom? do you just mean making byler canon earlier, or dropping heavier-handed hints/clues/foreshadowing that are harder to dismiss in the show? or are you thinking something they themselves could’ve done in real life, like actively going out of their way to support pride month or something like that?

i’m also thinking abt how the show presents itself, on several occasions, to be very anti-bullying and how it prides itself on celebrating those who might be considered losers, weirdos, and outcasts. but because this idea is never really explicitly stated or emphasized in the show, casual viewers tend to gloss over it, or miss it entirely. is this the duffer bro’s fault? is this an indication that they could have done more? done better? and do they have a moral responsibility to educate those who are intent on missing the point?

maybe! i don’t rly know how i feel. i love the show, i love byler, and i do agree that there are certain moves the duffers have made that i’m not 100% happy with. also the idea of a gay plot twist is kind of…. you know, fun, but not the best. however, i also try to keep in mind that these are two (presumably) cis straight men and so, i cut them some slack and i immensely appreciate what they’re trying to do (assuming ofc they are moving in a canon byler direction).

for them to establish two canon queer relationships in a mainstream show that i love that isn’t centered around queerness??? i could cry tears of joy just thinking abt it, and so i feel i’m more compelled to dismiss some of the mistakes the duffers make along the way.

anyway, sorry that the ask is ridiculously long (feel free to ignore it, or only address a small part of it if it’s too overwhelming!). i hope it makes sense, though it might just come off as incoherent rambling - whoops. i’m honestly just speaking recreationally lol, but i’d love to hear some more thoughts frm you on the subject if you’re willing!

Agh, thank you for the ask, I love hearing your thoughts!!!

[Re: this post]

To touch on the first/main question - what could the Duffers have done to mitigate the homophobia?

There's a lot they could have done.

Within the show, if they're intending to make Byler canon, which I do believe they are, I think that season 4 should have officially broken up Mileven and also have had an undeniably, overtly romantic moment for Byler that the GA can't miss. Even if the final cabin scene had a hand touch rather than the shoulder touch, that would have been enough for me. Because yes, to me, and you, and 250k other Bylers, it has been obvious; but for the GA and Milevens, they have purposefully left enough wiggle room to keep them on the hook. Again, I respect the straight-bait, but if they're prioritizing straight-baiting over protecting their queer fans, that's not a great look.

But to me, much more important is what they could do outside the show. While there are occasional posts about Byler on various Stranger Things social media, I feel like there is so much more that could be done to show support to the ship and its queer fans, especially if it is endgame.

They could have explicitly and overtly addressed Will's sexuality on all channels after the release of season 4 instead of leaving it to Noah Schnapp.

They could have explicitly stated in an interview that Will is an equally viable love interest for Mike as Eleven is going into season 5 instead of prioritizing shock value and spoiler avoidance over the wellbeing of their queer fans.

Most vitally, they could have acknowledged/addressed the presence of homophobic fans and bullying in the fandom and explicitly condemned hateful folks as misunderstanding the show's core values. Take for example how Rick Riordan responded to racist fans criticizing the casting for Annabeth & Grover:

"The negative comments she has received online are out of line. They need to stop. Now. Anyone can be a hero. If you don’t get that, if you’re still upset about the casting of this marvelous trio, then it doesn’t matter how many times you have read the books. You didn’t learn anything from them."

After season 4's confirmation that Will is gay, they should have made an outright statement along these lines, that hate is unacceptable and that those who are hateful are fundamentally opposed to the values of the show. Instead they (or at least, Netflix) is more preoccupied with maintaining the general audience for as long as possible, even at the expense of the often-more-dedicated queer fans.

Really though, I'm more happy about a queer relationship being canon in such a mainstream show than I am upset about the lack of support for queer fans, because ultimately, this queer relationship and representation is offering support in a lot of ways. But they're doing this while also spending years allowing some of their biggest fans to be gaslit into thinking they're "delusional" for interpreting what the show is saying.

I guess ultimately I just feel like, if they're going to engage with queer stories and queer characters, they also have to have some responsibility for mitigating the negative impact they can have on real queer fans and queer spaces.

[hawkinslibrary]

Our finales have typically ended with the evil defeated, or at least pushed away, allowing our characters to catch their collective breath and return to their normal lives. But because this is the penultimate season, we wanted an Empire Strikes Back style ending — meaning, it ends on a down note, with our characters experiencing real defeat for the first time. The bad guy wins. Friends (heroes) die, or are badly wounded. We felt this led to some incredibly devastating performances from our cast, as they come face to face with death and loss, a feeling which will cast a dark cloud over the final season. Like a lot of people, high school was a very challenging time for us — you’re facing the pressure of figuring out your future at the same time you are trying to fit in, or even just trying to understand who you are. It’s a lot to take on at that age and it can leave you feeling hopeless, like there’s no end to the uncertainty in sight. This emotional truth was at the center of Vecna. In many ways a physical representation of anxiety and depression, he is an evil force that leeches on youth’s frailty. The devil on your shoulder, the dark whisper in your ear. We hope that the show ultimately gives hope to kids that, with the help of loved ones, you can overcome anything. You can run your way up that hill, out of darkness and into the light. During filming, the script mostly went unchanged, although on set, and in the edit, everyone worked hard to make each character moment as impactful as possible. Some of this came from actor improvisation. For instance, in Eddie’s death scene, the simple exchange where Eddie and Dustin tell one another they love each other was improvised by Gaten [Matarazzo] and Joe [Quinn] during filming. Lucas screaming for Erica to help as Max dies in his arms was similarly an idea that came from Caleb [McLaughlin]. Our editor Dean Zimmerman heightened the moment of Eddie’s decision to fight back by slowing down the footage and adding flashbacks. Our music editor, Lena Glikson, cut a remix of “Running Up That Hill” into the final battle in a way that just took our breath away. It was just many, many moments like these from our cast, crew and post-production team which, hopefully, brought further emotion and humanity to the words on the page.

It Starts On The Page -- An Introduction to The Piggyback by the Duffers, as submitted for consideration to the 2023 Emmy Awards 

[byler-is-endgame7]

why did i make this

[bylertruther]

‘Stranger Things’ Matt & Ross Duffer Dish Season 4 Finale Death & Destruction & Epic Battles Ahead

[oursonwithagirl]

flash forward to 2024: shawn levy explaining step by step to the milkvans why he put mike biking in the rain to will’s house in the same episode that max tells el he’ll be come back to her, crawling and begging for forgiveness

[doyoulikedem]

"el will be heartbroken if mileven breaks up!" this, "el loves mike and mike would never hurt her!" that.

have we considered that mike already hurt el with all of his letters and distance and absence whilst she was in california (he doesn't need her, after all, and i think that maybe he just isn't accustomed to her being around in the first place, never really having time to, not properly, and instead.. *checks notes* spends all of that time missing will and participating in things that would have reminded him of will and realising that hawkins wasn’t the same without him and that he was spending too much time with el and lost will or something?), and el was already under the impression that he didn't love her anymore, (even calling him out for it, almost phrasing it like she wanted confirmation, not like she was asking a question- see “but you don’t.. you don’t love me anymore?” except the question mark is also more “but you don’t.. you don’t love me anymore.”,) and that el thought that it was "over" already?

she hurt, she mourned the loss of a boyfriend, and cried like the people in the movies she used to watch during the "break up period", but she took some time away from mike - and everyone else - , came into herself just a little bit more, and got over it, mostly. she isn't shown as thinking about mike once during their time apart post-argument. the only part of the hurt that we see having remained in the aftermath is the anger and avoidance of mike, like he avoided her (and will?).

..at this point trying to hold onto milkvan’s relationship is just hurting both of them (and el isn't even the one trying to cling to the concept. *flashbacks to her describing mike as her first boyfriend 👀*).

with the above in mind, i am headcanoning that el had been accepting of the situation by the time they all reunited and would have been able to move past it until a later date, maybe until after the world stopped ending and they (mike and el) could both talk, until the ily monologue happened, and mike saying he loved her then just felt like bullets on skin because she'd already moved on and began her independence arc... maybe even realised that she didn't love him (anymore) either. he was just too late.

but picture it. el, finally getting time to herself without mike, and for some strange reason coming to the conclusion that he might not be in love with her, when she starts paying more attention to his actions without the distraction of him all over her all the time, and with each letter "from mike" growing more suspicious and realising/thinking he doesn't love her, getting continuously more worried, and then getting enough confirmation from the one day she spent with him to feel justified in her concerns and call him out for it.

almost immediately after said argument she then left a *badass* goodbye note to mike, in which i just wanted to point out the usage of "superhero", because i think that's interesting to me. if she was saying it like "so you could love me again", first of all that's heart-breaking and unhealthy, and secondly then why would she sign it "from el" rather than "love", making an obvious callback to how mike was hurting her and making her think he didn’t love her, mike then not giving any good explanations for mentioned behaviour.

mike bringing up el being a superhero repeatedly afterwards, and highlighting it again in his monologue almost makes me think that her being a "superhero" is more personal to her then mike - her powers should not be there so that mike can love her, and him saying "you're my superhero" in the monologue was only salt in the wound for her, reinstituting that he thought that was the most awesome part about her and what made her loveable or “out of his league” or whatever. (another reason why i love byler- mike doesn’t see will as a superhero, but as a best friend first and foremost, and therefore the love he feels for him is pure, and not an emotional attachment to a glorified ideology in his mind, whereas mileven were barely friends, barely acquaintances, before they kissed.)

the "you're my superhero" thing is also interesting, because finn has stated that this was improv, the duffers having told him to do whatever he wanted during the monologue (😭✋) and that he was "very proud" of this line. meaning he's either unaware of the toxidity of mileven, or he's proud of this line because it adds something more, another detail/relevant callback. and i would be surprised if he doesn't know about mileven's issues, seeing as when asked about byler he stated that he thinks will's love for mike is "beautiful", and i don't feel like you would say that without giving it time and consideration and actually thinking about the situation.

but anyways, back to the point i was making. i feel like it showed mike was yet to realise what he was doing, and that he was going around in circles, not making any obvious developments in his thought processes and unable to tell el anything new, apart from rewording their argument (and mixing in some of eddie's speech about recruiting new dnd players from earlier on in the season, not that el would know) but adding in that he loves her, because she had plainly told him that was what she had wanted. he probably wouldn't have even realised or thought to say so otherwise.

now, lets just stop for a moment. if eddie's "i love you, man" to dustin was meant platonically (which it almost certainly was, because urm obviously,) then who's to say that this one any different? mike is often shown as mirroring eddie throughout this season, even in this speech (as mentioned above).

even by itself, the point still stands that this “i love you” could/can be taken in a platonic way, and despite what else you can say, will was IN the shot of mike's first 'i love you' that he’s said to el's face (although realistically it still wasn't very properly to her face,), and had a literal hand on his back, saying to him that "you have to keep going, you're the heart, mike!" when mike.. looked at him for reassurance halfway through, god. (and el probably heard it.)

(also quickly acknowledging the concept of "you have to keep going, i need to hear you say it so i have confirmation that you will always love her and never me and therefore can force myself to try to move on" from wills pov here.)

and alright, so, in conclusion to this point, i think that el was driven to fight back against vecna by mike's 'i love you' in this scene, but out of strong feelings of sadness and anger rather than love and reassurance (neither of which the monologue truly offered, when taken into further consideration. it's just a very desperate, grasping-at-straws sort of confession. and not even like an emotional, angsty, clinging to her, "you've GOT to hold on, el !!!!" + sobbing into her chest, holding her in his arms, inconsolable desperate that we see with lumax. just a desperate last-ditch attempt of communicating his apparent "feelings").

anyways. just some ily monologue thoughts.. (not sure if this makes any sense at all, it’s sort of everywhere, but. idk. thought i might as well share.. <33) remember: mileven is unhealthy, will is not a homewrecker, but the actual reason the "i love you monologue" is a monologue and includes and "i love you" in it, and byler endgame most hopefully. please duffers. istg.

[fairyrona]

the reoccurring urge to scream about this song bc I NEED IT. in s5 :))) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[littlegaysubwayrat]

Bro what kind of drugs did they put in this song

[harry-bowie-mercury]

Literally so scared for Stranger things S5 bc I don’t want the last time I see these characters to be when they’re at their lowest 🙁

[taeiris]

commission for @nothoughts-onlywomen !!!