#Fandom dynamics

[delicateperspective]

morning commute thoughts:

imagine you’re driving on a winding, curvy road. most people just drive it, right? it gets them where they’re going. they don’t question why it bends left here or swerves right there — it just is what it is. but if you stopped and looked closer, you might start to wonder: why doesn’t this road take the most direct route? why does it loop around the hill instead of cutting straight through?

and the answer is: because the road wasn’t always a road.

before the pavement, before the traffic lights and gas stations and modern maps, that road was once a dirt path. a trail worn by foot, by horse, by carriage. it followed the terrain because it had to. it curved around trees that no longer exist. it detoured around rivers that have since dried up. and even though the landscape has changed, the shape of the road still remembers what came before.

that’s what it’s like being in this fandom.

the story of larry wasn’t always this polished, this distant, this hard to see. there was once closeness. comfort. familiarity. accidental softness. and then — there wasn’t. the terrain changed. the industry paved over the truth with denials and distractions and girlfriends and “just friends.” but if you look closely, the path is still there. the bends in the road still tell a story.

so i don’t blame people who only see what’s on the surface now. i really don’t. but i also don’t apologize for remembering what came before the pavement.

because once you’ve walked the old path — once you’ve seen t — you can’t unsee it. and every twist in the road makes a lot more sense.

[statementlou]

Why do you think there’s a big part of the fandom that sees Louis as such a victim that they basically erase his intelligence, or think Harry is some kind of greedy villain who's sabotaging Louis’ career??

I mean, I’ve read a lot of different takes on both of them, but that one feels the most bizarre and far from reality.

They’re both closeted, and that makes them victims of the system. They’re both artists with highly curated images and contracts that are still restrictive—maybe not as bad as 1D, but still tight I guess. And obviously, both of them carry emotional consequences from closeting, which I don’t think we’ll ever fully understand.

That said, we all know Louis never had it easy, and yeah, it’s clear the label threw obstacles his way. But it bothers me when people frame him as a total victim and completely overlook his intelligence and ability to negotiate. Everyone knows that back in the 1D days, Louis was the strategic one, basically the leader when it came to big-picture decisions for the band. I think people really underestimate him and the success of his career, just because they compare him to artists like Olivia Rodrigo who have a totally different target audience.

As for Harry, I guess I kind of get why the gp might see him as greedy or something, because of his public circle, maybe the womanizer narrative that’s been following him since he was literally a teenager. And yeah, in some ways he’s the perfect target because of the way he is, how he communicates, and how closed-off he’s become lately, which means he doesn’t say anything about the fake stuff people say. But if you’ve been here since 1D, I don’t get how you could believe he’s some young version of Irving zoff trying to take over the industry. That’s just… not it.

Personally, I think both of them learned a lot from their time in 1D and have been using that experience in their solo careers. I think they have outsourced most of the things related to their images™ (Harry's been doing it since 2021 and Louis recently I think). They just want to make good music and stay commercially successful enough to keep touring and have a great career. Sometimes the explanation really is that simple—even if their situation is still super complex.

Yeah I think you make a lot of good points, in particular the last paragraph. As for the actual why, basically one person with some serious personal issues and projection going on created that story as it currently exists (specifically the part about Harry being out to sabotage Louis), but it wouldn't have taken hold so widely if it didn't appeal strongly to people. Nothing like a good old fashioned victim/villain story to get people invested and make them feel like they are joining a Cause! And the easy simplicity of having a Good Guy who needs your help and a Bad Guy who is the ENEMY and no distressing complexity in an otherwise confusing world, it's got an unbeatable draw. But additional thoughts and bits: I think fandom treats time as a flat thing, things from years ago are considered as valid as things from yesterday in a way that makes it hard to impossible to accept change and this impacts solos' ability to see how things have changed for the better for Louis, that he IS DOING GREAT ACTUALLY. But also part of it is that accepting that would mean not being needed and important in the same way, and finding a new driving purpose to fandom. I think you see a similar thing with larries who think they've broken up but don't say so because they want to still get to be accepted and part of the community; the solo circles also require buy-in to certain ideas, so it's easier to just believe what people are saying as fact and get to fit in and be part of the fun. Also we can't know but I don't agree about the contracts; I think they have both chosen and negotiated their current contracts and that they aren't obligated to pretend to date people but rather choose to do that. I do however think they choose to do that for reasons that include the fact that they're oppressed by... everything <waves hands at society generally>... and the ways they were shaped by what they were told, endlessly, as vulnerable children and how it got in their heads, although I strongly disagree with people who claim it wouldn't impact their career statuses to come out.

[twopoppies]

Friends, I don't care about Louis and his fake girlfriend, Harry and his fake/imaginary girlfriend, how many Italian stalkers say they know for sure, or how many photos Oli takes.

I just want new music.

I cannot spend hours every day holding people's hands to get them through yet another PR season. If H/L have PR relationships, they have them. They're not real girlfriends because neither one of them is interested in women, no matter how much you might want to believe that they are.

Whether H/L are together or not, their "girlfriends" will still always be PR girlfriends and not real relationships.

Please consider how silly all of this is. In the last month, Louis has been linked to Krystle, Michael, Kara, and Alycia.

During that same month, Harry has been linked to Alessandro, Brad, a random woman on the street in Berlin, two women in Berlin at Berghain, an imaginary person he was buying condoms and lube for on the street in Berlin, dating an Italian hotel receptionist, dating a pregnant woman in a pink dress in Florence, and getting back together with Taylor Russell.

Aren't you all exhausted? Just let this shit play out without running around like headless chickens wanting to get the scoop before it hits the tabloids. Seriously. Why do you care so much?

[thistuesdaynight]

just wanted to say that I would rather see your silly stick-figure drawing of your two favorite blorbos than any monstrosity that AI shat out. 🥰

[berrystainedsue]

I find it intellectually riveting—nay, anthropologically spellbinding how the phrase “shipping real people is gross” only ever seems to escape the lips of those morally panicked individuals when the ship in question is Larry. Ah yes, the ancient art of selective sanctimony. A tale as old as heteronormativity.

Like, where was this moral grandstanding when the internet descended into collective hysteria over Haylor, a coupling that lasted roughly the same amount of time it takes to microwave a burrito? Or when Elounope was treated like a royal marriage forged by the gods of coordinated pap walks? Not a murmur. Not even the faint rustling of a hypocrite’s conscience.

But the minute someone so much as breathes the word “Larry,” people start clutching their pearls like Victorian debutantes confronted with ankles.

Apparently, concern for the psychological sanctity of celebrities only activates when two men are involved. Fascinating! Positively textbook! Freud is doing the Macarena in his grave.

And let’s be abundantly clear: Larry is not and hasn’t been “just a ship” since like…2012? This is not your average, garden-variety “they’d be cute together” scenario. This is a multi-layered, intertextual, slow-burn epic spanning over a decade, filled with mirrored lyrics, shared wardrobes, matching tattoos, suspicious silences, and the kind of emotionally-charged eye contact that could power a small European village.

We’re not shipping. We’re conducting a longitudinal queer study with PowerPoint presentations, Excel spreadsheets, and footnotes. Our thesis is due. MLA format. Peer-reviewed by Tumblr.

And the most mind boggling part? There is objectively more compelling, tangible, eyebrow-raising evidence that Harry and Louis are together than there ever was for Louis and Eleanor. Whose vibe resembled two wax figures posing for a Sears catalogue titled “Heterosexuality: We Swear.” Meanwhile, H&L were out here singing at each other like star-crossed lovers in a tragic musical sponsored by Modest management and Syco entertainment.

But sure, we’re the ones who need psychological evaluation.

And the absolute audacity of people dissecting one side-eye in a red carpet photo of a straight couple and calling it proof of eternal love, then turning around and calling Larries “delusional” for noticing literal patterns that have spanned an entire decade… it’s giving hypocritical rococo goblin.

If you genuinely believe shipping real people is wrong, then please kindly evacuate from every straight ship tag with the urgency of a possum in a Whole Foods. But don’t masquerade as the Patron Saint of Privacy while gleefully reposting Haylor edits with “All Too Well (10 min version)” playing in the background.

It’s not about ethics. It’s about comfort. And queer love stories—especially the ones they tried to bury under PR and denial—make people uncomfortable.

So no, we’re not “invading privacy.” We’re just exceptionally observant, chronically online, and possibly a little feral. But also? Right.

(sorry for the rant lol)

....do i have lady whistledown in my inbox???

[savebylou]

Being in the fandom.

Lately I have struggle a bit with being in the fandom, sometimes when things happened in the fandom that cause a lot of reactions it can be a bit overwhelming seeing so many opinions, especially the negative ones. Before it was easy for me to just ignore opinions I disagree with, but lately that has been hard for me to do.

I have take breaks from the dash and that has help but I think this will keep happening and I need to find ways to dealing with this besides the breaks.

I saw this tweet and it make me realise that regardless of the fandom drama that happens at any time in the future, the worst thing already happened, my worst fear of the fandom became a reality, we lost Liam. A member of the band is not with us anymore and we will have to deal with this reality for the rest of our lives. Nothing in the fandom for me will be as painful as losing one of the boys.

So I will try to remind myself that to not let fandom discourse affect me. Sharing this in case it helps somone that is struggling with the same.

I will keep trying to be kind, I will keep supporting the boys and wish them the best and when I need breaks from the fandom I will take them.

Fandom is to enjoy it, do whatever is best for you, curate your experience, follow the people that you want, filter tags to not see the content you don't want, take care, wish you all the best.

[daisiesonafield-blog]

This is an answer to a question that nobody asked me, but I saw it asked on Gina's blog @twopoppies and for some reason felt like contributing my opinion, hope yall don't mind.

The question was:

Why is it that Louies are so much more tolerant of Larry Stylinson than Harries?

It is my impression that this is the case, or rather was the case (and I say was for a reason*), due to how their careers have progressed differently, with timing playing a huge role in it. For starters, it's important to emphasize how Harry's marketing and image have always been tied to the sex appeal persona created for him. He was marketed like that as a 16 year old, and it continued like that through all of 1D and his solo career. So the fans that comprise the harries ended up falling in that category for the most part. Additionally, in my opinion, the fact that Harry began his solo career much earlier, and got a high level of success right with his 1st solo album, led him to gain a much larger fanbase much quicker. Whereas Louis' solo career took several years to grow like that, so his fanbase stayed smaller for longer, and as a result it was more likely that he'd have more larrie fans than Harry's fanbase. It's strictly a numbers game.

Now looking at how Louis' been marketed, he was not really marketed as a sex symbol for fans to desire. He was always marketed as safe, a friend, someone you could trust, someone fun. This was done through 1D via his relationship with Eleanor. They always painted that relationship as a steady, long term relationship. From the start saying that she was a childhood sweetheart, and a girl he brought home to meet the family. So that painted him as unavailable as a love interest to the fanbase at large. He was also always funny, so Louis came across as a friend who you could trust and have fun with. Someone to rely on.

I would say that this largely carried on through the beginnings of Louis' career, in part because it was slowed down due to covid delaying it, but also due to its marketing also relying on the friend image. He was a lad, sweet and caring, but a friend. His fanbase grew, but I think there was still a level of balance between solo fans and louie-larries. The pandemic brought in a boom of new fans. People who were in lockdown with nothing to do who fell down the rabbit hole of Larry. So while Louis' fanbase grew, I would say it grew a lot in larries because of 2020. FITF is where things began to change and his fanbase really grew with the larger public. I think this can be attributed to his massive tour and social media presence. His styling and image was sexier during this tour, so he also grew a lot of fans who now viewed him as a sex symbol, someone to desire. That paired with his reported split from Eleanor made him available, which in turn helped grow his image of the "rockstar boyfriend" for people to desire. I think this was also largely encourage through more frequent online discussions of how hot Louis is. Something that wasn't really commonly a part of fandom discussion prior to 2020. Whereas for Harry, it has always been a part of discussion, because it's always been how he has been marketed.

*Overall I think this is rapidly changing, and we've already seen it in how Louis' fanbase has changed through FITF. I don't think the fandom at large will have this dynamic for long, as it grows and changes.

Anyways, this is my opinion. If others have a different opinion or would like to contribute, feel free to share.

[summer-lovin-09]

Y’all, I’m kind of at my wit’s end with the Louis hate on this app. No matter how many people explain why it’s unreasonable, it will never stop. It’s getting to the point where you can’t even filter it anymore by blocking people. That’s how many people have jumped on the bandwagon. I don’t have the energy to keep reiterating the same points over and over again. It’s actually making me hate posting and interacting in this fandom. Makes me sick. I swear that some Larries hate Louis more than toxic antis/solo fans. We were meant to be different. This is so disappointing.

[watermelonlicker]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJpZeOuzQph/?igsh=MTU5ZTFwNmxzbW1ieQ==

So glad I’ve gotten this video on my feed. This is such a great material. Honestly, it’s so scarily accurate to what we larries have been experiencing. While I’ve seen most of the larries being open to a dialogue, antis have always been dismissive and bully you straight away and brand you a conspiracy theorist. Gee I wonder why.

thanks for sharing this like this is actually so true and the cult mentality/group think is something that’s been flipped on larries but the only ones forcing anything on others has always been antis. why do you think they’re always quoting larries on twitter or sending anons here or stalk us. antis have always done syco/sony’s bidding

[todayisdeadinside]

I often see antis claim that larries are projecting their fantasies onto the situation. As if watching two young people fall in love, only to be torn apart by powerful men in suits who are driven by money, is somehow a power trip. However, isn't that a bit too devastating to be considered a fantasy?

(sorry this took me so long to answer, i wanted to give a lengthy response and i havent had the energy till now)

(editing note: i got sooooo off topic from your original ask, i totally used this as an excuse to ramble)

i think there are larries who project their fantasies onto harry and louis, and i think part of that is natural with being a fan- you see other fans doing the same with projecting their fantasies onto louis and zara, to bring up a recent example. part of being a fan to this degree is filling in the blanks with educated guesses- or, sometimes, not-so-educated guesses. a lot of that can become wish fulfillment and headcanon, if you don't intentionally check yourself and keep the facts in line.

which isnt to say that projecting a fantasy or headcanon is always bad; id wager its usually harmless, to think of something positive as true with no evidence, about 2 people you dont personally know. in the long run, having that small personal truth in your heart isnt hurting anybody.

however, clarification aside, i do agree with your main point. larry's story isnt an easy one to live, and i cant imagine its always been fun to watch for the longtime fans who've had to see them forced into stunting, forced to stay in the closet, forced to do things that they dont want to do. i think a core thing ive noticed in larries is that we want harry and louis to be happy, supported, safe, and free. i dont think the average larrie behaves in a "power trip" sort of way.

however, i see a lot of solo fans and antis who act on power trips. recently, seeing the occasional solo louie acting holier-than-thou for believing the mcdumblinson slop. acting like they're "winning" fan-hood by believing what the media is telling them is true. being the "best" at louie-ing by licking the propaganda boots sparkly clean.

its concerning to watch sometimes, knowing that their feeling of superiority is based on the severity to which they are being a follower and refusing to critically think or question things. and that brings me to another point- there's this strange phenomenon ive noticed across my entire life (prior to being a larrie or directioner) of people feeling threatened by those who question the system. and because i think its relevant to the discussions around larry, im gonna explain what i mean:

the average everyday person has been groomed by society to obey the system and obey the media narrative they're being fed. the average person has been trained not to question authority, such as the tabloids, and has likely never attempted to unpack that blind follower behavior. this conditioned loyalty creates a sense of fear when others around them DO question things, like the media, or the government for example. they get defensive in an attempt to repair their blissfully ignorant peace, defensive of the system theyve been groomed into feeling loyal to.

i think most of the GP is capable of thinking critically, understanding the signs and clues when it comes to larry, but i think its a choice for most of them to stay ignorant to it and believe the media narrative. its more comfortable to simply obey. critical thinking, making a habit of questioning your information sources, are very intentional behaviors that society has done its best to minimize our utilization of in daily life. so of course, it feels difficult to start unpacking all of that, to start training your brain to pick up on propaganda, pick it apart, and find the truth within biased narratives.

so, many people simply choose not to do all that. but they still want to feel smart. we as a society have also been groomed into feeling like we need to "win" and be the "best" in every situation we can. capitalism, blah blah blah. so how can the average fan feel powerful and "better" than us larries without doing all the same mental work to understand the things we understand? well, they point to their precious media slop. "see? the dailymail said they're dating, and there's photos of them kissing, so it must be true! you're delusional for even questioning this!"

this technique;

- gives the willfully ignorant fan a sense of power and superiority over larries, without any of the hard mental work being done.

- discourages others from thinking critically. if everyone is just as ignorant as me, i wont feel so bad about it!

- whether consciously or unconsciously, it supports the system and helps it keep running. theres less need for people in power to police the GP's reaction when they're policing each other into the desired reaction.

there's a reason i bring up george orwell's 1984 a lot when discussing larries vs. antis or tabloid narratives in general. when i see surface level fans blindly believing one narrative, and then blindly believing the next contradicting narrative, simply because the tabloids they follow posted it, i immediately think of 1984; specifically the country they're meant to be warring against changing at random, and everyone simply... going along with it. "we were always fighting this country!" and despite knowing it's not true, most of the characters go along with it, because it's easier. it's what they've been conditioned to do since they were born into that system.

so, to try and tie this ramble back into your original ask; yeah. the truth is too devastating to be a fantasy. thats why its so much easier for the average fan to dismiss it as fantasy- if its fantasy, or conspiracy, they dont have to unpack the weight of just how fucked up the music industry is and how horribly their favourite artists have been treated. those truths are uncomfortable, and as we know, people in today's society don't like being uncomfortable. they're dangerously averse to it.

[prettystylinson]

god it absolutely baffles me how someone can claim to love an artist so deeply, someone whose entire public ethos is “treat people with kindness,” and then in the next breath spew the most dehumanizing, vile, and downright obsessive things about louis tomlinson.

and i mean even if you don’t view it through a larry lens—even if you’re totally removed from all of that—this is still someone who was harry’s bandmate, who shared a decade of his life with him, who harry has consistently referred to as family. as a brother. as someone he loves. so how do you sit there and worship harry like a religion, hang on to every quote about love and light and kindness, but then turn around and reduce louis to less than human? like truly—imagine your idol scrolling and seeing the things you say. would he be proud? would he feel supported by that? would he think your behavior aligns in any way with what he’s preached?

and don’t even get me started on the way some of you have made it your entire day job to open hate anons and stir the pot. like… be serious. go touch some grass. start a journal. learn to knit. anything. i work a full-time job and can barely keep up with the anons i do get, meanwhile some of y’all are clocking in at 9am sharp to anonymously drag a man you don’t know, and spend your entire day playing fandom cop for something that hasn’t involved fans since 2015.

it’s not activism. it’s not “critique.” it’s not holding people accountable. it’s just unkindness. it’s targeted harassment dressed up in moral superiority. and the scariest part is that some of you genuinely think you’re the good guys for doing it.

maybe it’s time to reevaluate what “loving” an artist really means. because if your version of love requires someone else to be torn down? it’s not love. it’s just ego. and you’re not actually protecting anyone—you’re just making fandom a worse place to be.

and i know someone’s gonna try to argue this by pointing out that there are people hating on zara right now because of the stunt—but let me be clear: i don’t think anyone should be dehumanized like that. i’ve maybe said one or two things in frustration, sure, but in the grand scheme of things? the stuff i’m seeing out there is so far removed from “treat people with kindness” it’s laughable. honestly, if that’s the energy you’re putting out, i don’t think you should even be calling yourself a “harrie” at all.

[delicateperspective]

ykw maybe we’re wrong. maybe it was never “real.” maybe they really were just best friends who loved each other deeply and made insinuations about sleeping with each other often. maybe the music industry and those in power really were kind to them, lifting them up without forcing them to hide who they are or crushing them under contracts that controlled their every move. maybe one did figure out queerbaiting made him money and ran with it. maybe the other is just the thoughtless, uneducated, ignorant straight man they’ve tried to paint him as. maybe all the coincidences, the song lyrics, the tattoos are just bad luck, and somehow, for over a decade, these two helpless participants couldn’t escape each other’s shadows.

but here’s the thing—what if we’re not wrong? what if, in 50 years, the truth does come out? don’t you want to be able to say you were on the right side of history? don’t you think this massive, supportive fanbase—rooting for two people who weren’t even confirmed queer—has pushed the needle in the music industry at all? because i do. i think our documenting, our questioning, our refusal to accept the narratives spoon-fed to us by people who profit off them has mattered. it’s shown that fans can see through the cracks, that we can demand better.

it was never about forcing a narrative. it was never about “being right”. it was about creating a space where fans can resist the heteronormative, patriarchal, capitalist structures that reduce artists to marketable images. it’s about looking at two men who lived through one of the most controlled, publicized boyband experiences in history and saying, “we see you as people.” it’s about the art we’ve created, the stories we’ve told, the support we’ve given—not because we’re entitled to their lives, but because we believe in the value of their truth.

so maybe it was never “real.” maybe it’s all just a string of coincidences. but even then, what we’re doing matters. we’re documenting. we’re questioning. we’re creating. and if the truth ever does come out, we’ll know we were here, believing in something bigger than just rumors. faith in the future, right?

[destinationtoast]

Hi! You made another (absolutely fascinating) post about commenting trends in fandom over time, and that got me thinking about another thing I’m curious about: differences in comment culture across fandoms. Anecdotally, I’ve noticed several fandoms (the Silmarillion and The Murderbot Diaries come to mind) that seem to get proportionally more / more detailed comments than other fandoms I’ve been in. I have no idea if this is backed up by evidence or if it’s possible to analyze that kind of thing with actual data, but I think it’s interesting!

Hey! Sorry this took ages to respond to -- I believe you were probably referring to this post or the original of that thread, if you or anyone else wants a refresher on the context. :)

That's really interesting, and matches with my own anecdotal experience when I've observed when I've dipped my toes into fandoms that were smaller but had at least a handful of people posting. I would bet that communities are more likely to form in smaller groups -- you keep recognizing and interacting with a smaller group of people, and you feel more motivated to be thoughtful about their fanworks. Which I suspect then encourages even folks outside the tight-knit core community to leave longer comments.

But I have no relevant data yet -- that's all anecdotal/speculation on my part. I hope to get back to working on my ao3 comments soon and to keep looking at comment trends over time, though. And you've helped inspire me to think about analyzing comment length and to compare different fandoms, as part of that! :)

I'd also love to hear if anyone else has relevant data, or feel free to share your relevant experiences and/or hypotheses!

[twopoppies]

https://x.com/pauisontour/status/1930246955965256044?t=ExeAEgihLMOkHfpJmUEjQg&s=19

I'm not sure I understood what this person wrote, it's not my language and the translation option sucks lol

But if I actually got it right it so freaking bad omg

Like, we know his team is terrible but this is just exploitation and abuse of power over the fans what the hell (I also think asking fans to moderate the discord thing without compensation is exploitation btw)

And I'm sooooo tired of people making Louis the victim when it's HIS team and he can do something about it, he's the literal boss. He just doesn't care enough, because they messed up so badly and so many times before and nothing changed 🤷🏼‍♀️

Wow. I’m not sure about the translation, either, but maybe @nauticallyrics @vodkaskys or some other native speakers can chime in?

Fans doing all the work started back in the 1D days because they weren’t being promoted the way fans thought they should be. Now it’s bled into Louis’ solo career, but this is a whole different vibe and feels like fans are being taken advantage of.

x

This is all in response to this post about signing up to be a moderator of the LTHQ Discord.

[savebylou]

Give credit to gif makers on tumblr.

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[berrystainedsue]

also, as human beings we love drama - and some people just love to hate on others which is why they stay around

That’s so fucked up! I don’t think these people realize how gross and fucked up, that is. 💀

because it stimulates their silly little brain!!! it gives them a little hint of joy.

people like that need to find a hobby outside of fandom asap.