#Hazbin Hotel Critical

[autumnteawithfriends]

I don’t know if this me sounding nitpicky but I really wish Vivziepop gave Pentious a more broader/sturdier figure.

Like, Viv is really trying to tell us that an inventor who lived and died in Victorian Era London and who likely built GIANT DEATH MACHINES, looks like copy and pasted Vivziepop twink #2683728373? I’m not buying it.

And to also add to the “making death machines” point, making machines in general, both back then and now, is extremely GRUELING and takes a ton of effort and strength to do. This art is a good example

(Artist: GabendSelarom)

Despite this picture being a print more than anything else, this is a perfect example of what I think he should’ve looked like in the series proper. Pentious having a more broader figure makes sense to me because in both life and death, he’s likely spending HOURS making and forging all of his machinery.

This is all really, if you want to give your opinion, comment or reblog below.

[flower-boi16]

The Millie Problem

The first Helluva Boss short came out and...it was mid. It's cute and harmless, sure, but it's also nothing special or anything that great. The short once again tries and fails to give Millie any real depth and it made me realize the biggest flaw with Millie as a character...

....the writers don't know how to give her depth. I've talked this before but now it seems like a fairly common thing for Millie as a character that it's time to make a post about this. The writers clearly want to give Millie depth but like I said the problem is that they don't seem to know HOW, and here I'm going to explain why the writers' attempts at giving Millie depth simply don't work.

In Season 1 Millie kinda just...existed. She was there. She had little personality or character depth beyond being Moxxie's wife, she was completely one-dimensional as a character.

Season 2 would come and try to give her depth with Unhappy Campers, and this is where the problem begins to arise. Instead of actually focusing on Millie as a character, Unhappy Campers wasted it's runtime on focusing on Moxxie being jealous and decided to just. Randomly give Millie validation issues completely out of nowhere.

I've spoken before about this doesn't work, so I'll just explain it quick; it comes out of nowhere. Millie has never shown to want validation from others, there was no foreshadowing or build-up to this, thus it feels forced and rushed. It's just a random character flaw the writers pulled out their ass in a rushed and failed attempt at giving Millie depth.

But it doesn't give her depth because it came out of nowhere. This flaw is also never explored upoun; the show never explores this insecurity or why Millie even has it. Feels tacked on to her.

It is, essentially, a rushed attempt at giving her depth. This is a conflict that comes completely out of nowhere and is heavily underdeveloped. It does little for Millie as a character and fails to give her depth.

The new short is the second instance of this; once again we have a conflict where Sally is upset that Millie moved away and they reconcile in the end. This conflict is at least better than the other two of three times is happened, however, it still has the same problems; it doesn't really do that much for Millie as a character. It comes out of nowhere and is explored very little.

It's not enough to develop Millie as a character, it simply feels like the bare minimum. Once again; it's a conflict that comes out of nowhere, is explored very little, and gives little depth to Millie as a character. It once again, feels tacked on.

Now we're going to go into leak territory here as a future episode called GhostFuckers shows the third instance of the writers attempting to give Millie depth. How are they going to do it this time?

By making Millie suicidal of course! ....wait I'm sorry what???? Like with Unhappy Campers I've spoken before about why this doesn't work but of the three instances, this is easily the worst one. Why is Millie being suicidal here??? WHY have her be suicidal in the first place??? What's the point?????

This adds nothing to Millie as a character and once again feels forced and tacked on. Like the other two instances, it comes completely out of nowhere. Plus it just flat out makes no sense! Why does Millie apparently hate herself for "being a killing machine" when that is LITERALLY THE THING HER HUSBAND LOVES ABOUT HER AND WHEN THAT'S THE THING THAT MAKES HER ONE OF THE BEST MEMBERS OF THE GROUP???? WHY DOES SHE HATE HERSELF??? AND WHY IS SHE SUDDENELY SUICIDAL???? WHY DOES SHE SUDDENLY FEEL LIKE A BURDEN TO HER HUSBAND????? Once again, it's a forced attempt at giving Millie depth and feels tacked on.

It comes out of nowhere & is extremely forced. Granted, the episode hasn't come out yet, however judging by the leaks it seems like the episode will be the third instance of the writers randomly introducing conflicts out of nowhere in order to give Millie depth.

It's clear that the writers want to flesh out Millie as a character, but the problem is that they don't seem to know how. They constantly try introducing random conflicts for Millie to try and give her character depth, but they fail because every time the writers try to give Millie depth, it always comes out of nowhere. They always feel rushed, tacked on, and they just don't add anything to her as a character. It just feels like the bare minimum.

I want to like Millie, I really do, but it seems like the writers just don't know what to do with her anymore.

[bump-inthe-night]

The Millie-Sallie Mae short would've been cute if it weren't for the fact that Vivziepop will give her men multiple episodes dedicated to them. However, her women are lucky if they're even the side focus in episodes, let alone the main character.

Vivziepop will shower her men with heavy amounts of attention, exploring their backstories and their relationships with other men in MULTIPLE episodes, while her women get breadcrumbs, receiving little focus by comparison.

[spopsalt]

I already made a post about this, BUT it frustrates me soooo much that when ANGEL (Viv's favorite) stands up to his abuser, it's some cool badass moment where he "Stuck it to the man!" and shows that demons are redeemable! Meanwhile when HUSK who is NOT Viv's favorite stands up to his abuser, he quivers in front of the mighty Alastor (Viv's favorite), yeahhhhh I thinkkkk I'm starting to see a pattern here.....

[wrathofthepassion]

Heres another post before I'm gonna go off to have my eye surgery.

So, dwhos gonna tell me what happened to wings in Hazbin Hotel? And yes, Hazbin Hotel specifically.

Cause it's REALLY bad here, and quite literally makes the already bad designs MUCH worse.

Just- Look at Emily. She looks like a plucked out pigeon. She was already downgraded by being whitewashed, but with these fuckass wings she looks even worse!

Heres a quick sketch of wings I made in like- 5 minutes? And she already looks more like an ACTUAL Angel!

And I wouldnt complain about this nitpick as much if the MOTHERFUCKING LUCIFER DIDNT HAVE THESE

HE LOOKS LIKE A HOBO! A LOSER! HE DOESNT LOOK INTIMIDATING AT ALL!

And we KNOW that Viv and Spindlehorse CAN make actual wings and intimidating look, they did it with Stolas!

So WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED WITH HOTEL???

Jesus, I need to redesign all this shit soon, I cant look at it much longer.

[moistrodent]

DUDE the lack of diversity in body types with vivziepop characters is actually impressive.

[newbtheveryawesomeandkindanewby]

[skyeblue8]

Also what is Heaven afraid of? Like uh, the Sinners don't seem to have a way to get to Heaven on their own so why do fear an uprising? Even if Sinners wanted to screw over Heaven, how are they going to get there without assistance? Also they'd need a lot of people to even stand a chance and I can't imagine a lot of Sinners stepping up to the late given Heaven probably has a factory of Angel weapons and they'd most certainly use them if the Sinners tried to attack them.

Like even if Lilith is somehow influencing them, what are they gonna do? They can't even leave the Pride Ring, let alone get to Heaven.

Also uh...wouldn't it make more for the Extermination to effect both Sinners and Hellborns because the Hellborns can reproduce so it makes more sense to kill them indiscriminately as with Sinners falling everyday, it'd make the overpopulation plot more important.

𝑬𝒙𝒕𝒓𝒆𝒎𝒆𝒍𝒚 𝒍𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒐𝒏 𝒎𝒚 𝒑𝒂𝒓𝒕, 𝒃𝒖𝒕 𝑰 𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝒕𝒐 𝒂𝒈𝒓𝒆𝒆 𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒆. 𝑻𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒆❜𝒔 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒏𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒕𝒐 𝒇𝒆𝒂𝒓, 𝒆𝒔𝒑𝒆𝒄𝒊𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒔𝒆𝒆𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒉𝒐𝒘 𝒆𝒂𝒔𝒚 𝑨𝒅𝒂𝒎 𝒕𝒐𝒐𝒌 𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑷𝒆𝒏𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒖𝒔.

[ec2003]

What'd You Guys Think Of Helluva Boss Season 2 Trailer? Finally, After All This Time, It's Here!

I honestly think it's actually gonna be interesting, despite its flaws. I wont spoil it until you guys get a good watch. ^-^

[autumnteawithfriends]

Does anyone feel like starting an unpopular HH opinion thread here?

To start this off, I prefer Sir Pentious in the pilot over the show. Don’t get me wrong, I still love him and he’s one of the few characters I actually like in this show. It’s just Pentious in the pilot for me is way more enjoyable to me, plus I loved Stumper as him. Not to mention I liked his “Hammy, but dangerous and somewhat competent supervillain” personality in the pilot over the show’s “silly harmless goofball” personality

Also feel free to list your criticisms you have of the show if you do, just don’t harass anyone.

[flower-boi16]

”you want everything to be spelt out to you!” “The show doesn’t need to explicitly spell it out for you!” “You can just infer it!”

This is the exact same defense I always get whenever I argue with Viv fans when I criticize Viv’s piss-poor writing. And the thing is this IS true; shows don't need to explicitly spell things out to the audience, as there are conclusions that the viewer can draw on their own without having to be explicitly told by the text, usually by the text giving direct hints to that explanation.

The problem is that Viv fans' definition of inferring isn't "drawing conclusions on our own with direct explicit hints given from the text that is the canon explanation the story wants you to come to" it's "making shit up to try and explain and/or justify Viv's terrible writing".

There are three times where I got this defense when arguing with HH/HB fans all three times I lost several brain cells in the process.

The first time was in a discord server where I posted an HB episode tier list and put Truth Seekers in C tier (the mediocre one). One of users commented on this and I explained my reasoning why I thought the episode was meh. One of these reasons was the plot hole of why the Dhorks didn't send the footage they already had to the government.

The user then countered that with "how do you know didn't send that old footage?". Well, the reason why I know that is because the episode gives no actual indication that they sent it, and when I said that the user countered that with "because there was also no indication that they didn't send the footage". And then after that the argument spiraled into both of us repeating the same counterarguments over and over again.

The user says that it's logical for the audience to assume they sent the footage because it's the logical thing to do cuz why would they keep it. Which, ok, you can assume that they did send the footage but there's no indication of that within the story. This does not change the fact that this is an unanswered question that the story itself didn't answer, did they or did they not send the footage?

That's a pretty important question to answer and the show can't just leave it there. And then the user tells me "you don't need to be told, Its in your face how they act". There is no way to infer if they did send the footage because the story gives a SINGLE hint that they do, and the story DOES need to say if it they sent it or not.

This is not inferring. This is making shit up to explain Viv's writing for her. Did they or did they not send the footage? This is a big question that the episode does not answer even though this is a major plot hole and it can't just leave it hanging there for fans to just guess. The episode gave no indication that they sent the footage, so I have no reason to believe that they did. You can't infer ANYTHING from this.

This explanation is simply something made up, not a conclusion that's given direct hints from the show. If the next never said it happened, it did not fucking happen. This assumption is literally just headcanon.

The next argument was from an ask I got calling me media literate for my point about how fans shouldn't have to create fan theories to explain Viv's writing for her and Viv should explain her world-building herself. It stated that the explanation for why sinners are confined to the pride ring (making the exterminations more efficient/easier) is the clear explanation that the show doesn't have to spell out because 1) The show says that there are annual exterminations which aren't viable without the confinement and 2) Lucifer gets control over which ring his subjects go to.

Both of these explanations suck, here's why.

The exterminations simply being there does not explain the confinement. Also, this explanation doesn't work to begin with as I've talked about before

Lucifer having control over where he sends his subjects to doesn't inherently explain why he sends them to the pride ring specifically.

The "sinners are confined to the pride ring to make exterminations easier" was a fan theory created by the fans to explain this because the show itself didn't bother giving an answer. That's bad world-building.

The show itself needs to explain these things rather than having fans create explanations for it. There isn't any way to infer that because the show never once gives any hints that this is the reason. And, like I said before, the explanation doesn't even work anyway.

There is no way to infer why the sinners are confined to the pride ring at all, this explanation is once again a headcanon. But when I pointed this out, the anon said that I just want everything spelled out for me.

The third and final instance of this is with our good ol friend truffhollowell. Ya know, the person who's been going around on Hazbin critical posts spouting nothing but complete bullshit.

This argument was under this post about why Vaggie's turn around made 0 sense. In the post truff tried countering my argument with "uuuuh, actually, not all murderers are heartless monsters!" even though that is explicitly what the exorcists are shown to be.

They then go around and say that Vaggie could've been thinking "how could a child end up in hell" and she realizes Heaven's corrupt systems and develops her own identity (at least that's what I remember them saying since they deleted all of their replies once they lost the argument lmao)....even though there is NO indication within the show that this is what's happening.

This is not inferring. This is just a headcanon. But truff says that you CAN infer it because...child murder is bad...

...umm...WHY TF WOULD THE EXORCISTS GIVE A SHIT IF CHILD MURDER WAS BAD IF THAT CHILD IS A FUCKING SINNER????? And THEN they hit me with that same fucking claim of "oh, you want shows to spell things out for you!".

Ya, well, guess what, I can't infer any of this because that's not what's happening. This is not what's happening in the scene, this is just a headcanon truff made up.

There's more to their arguments than just that but that was the general point they were making.

I'm so sick of always getting this stupid-ass defense because NO, I DON'T want everything spelled out for me, I want things to actually make sense. I'm looking at specifically what the text itself is saying, the information that it gives out and what's happening within the show.

Not your headcanon you made up to explain Viv's terrible writing. None of these explanations are people infering things based on direct evidence from the show. They are just headcanons/theories with nothing in the text hinting towards it.

So, to anyone who is going to give me the "you can just infer it yourself!" excuse to defend these shows whenever I criticize them...

Shut the fuck up.

[uniquepeanutcreatorfire]

I imagined a conversation like this with Valentino and Stolas where Val just goes off on him and it’s played straight would be so cathartic.

[hazshit-hotel-hater]

Alastor Redesign! (5/7)

For as much as I hate his guys hair. God that bob. It really is iconic.

Anyway it’s Mr. Hazbin Hotel himself! He’s been growing on me a lot recently (my version, hes boring in the show im so sorry alastor fans)

I think most of my follow have seen my Alastor design so this post may be a bit shorter than the others; still I hope you like seeing him full body

I’ve always thought this guy looked nothing like a deer so I have attempted to fix that. Not sure if it looks the best but you can tell he’s a deer! Alastor is also biomechanical so he has a few technological pieces of his body like his mouth and antlers that are meant to look like those tiny radio tower thingies.

The scar and stitching around his neck is from a fight with Vox. Alastor isn’t able to just design and replace body parts so he has a decent chunk of scars under the suit. I placed it on the neck for vulnerability sake, and also like how you mount deer heads on the wall, I wanted to be like that a little.

For his colours, I did focus a bit on wrath and greed, but his dumb magic stuff is still green to represent envy. Also red and yellow are meant to evoke feelings of hunger and I thought that would be fun because he eats deer and all that :)

The microphone staff Vivzie gave him was stupid so I gave him one more inspired by the 1930’s. The red crescent and gold barings are meant to look like a blood moon and the sun a little bit, I thought that was cool.

Most of his interesting bits are through character interactions rather than how he looks in my opinion, but I think he still looks pretty spiffy. He’s funny, absolutely hate him though! 🥃

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Well, Thank Goodness They Aren't All Birds Because It Now Makes It Even More Stupid Paimon Was Turned Into One

I will only give this woman minimal praise but thank goodness the Goetia are not all birds because that would be creatively bankrupt. But now is the question what all those birds from the party were. They can't all be Goetia and Vivziepop needs to work better on her species lore.

Also it gives her even less of an excuse for Paimon to look like this if she can make more accurate designs for other Goetia. Seriously, I could totally see Helluva Boss Paimon rocking the Middle Eastern, effeminate look riding with bird feet a camel with a bunch of imps following him around with musical instruments. Seriously, that would be open for so many creative designs especially since she likes Twinks this was a missed opportunity to go wild and she went a safe route of just giving him a straight bird dad. Or better yet don't call him Paimon but another type of demon from the Goetia.

[art-tea-chill]

Sir Pentious redesign I've made. I love him and I hate how Vivziepop treated him in the series.

Design notes under the cut + rewrite

I gave him a broader/sturdier figure to fit his inventor persona more, more info on this post made on my main blog @autumnteawithfriends

Changed his pink to red, I thought it would make him look more intimidating

Made his outfit more Victorian Age accurate

Added more eyes (explained in the lore segment)

Honestly, I didn't want to change much because Sir Pentious to me has one of the better designs to me despite the flaws.

Now time for some rewrite lore

His real name was Sir Arthur Price when alive

He was born on December 1st 1853 and died in 1890, making him 37.

Class 3 Sinner, his sins were Wrath, Envy, and Pride

Is an inventor/machinist who had plans on advancing machines in a way nobody would see coming when alive, he was actively and maliciously jealous of anyone he deemed a rival.

He was not very well liked when alive, not at all. which did not help with his ambitions with wanting to advance the field of machinery.

Arthur went bankrupt one day due to lacking the funds to maintain his machines, meaning he had to marry an aristocrat for money.

He married Marielle Farfalle (OC) on December 13, 1879. Their marriage was neutral at first until Mari discovered his villainy and was ecstatic to learn this. After that, they started to genuinely fall in love.

Arthur snapped the day he tried to launch his first invention to the public. He showcased it only for the public to be interested in his rivals inventions.

He plotted to kill his rivals along with the help of his wife, while they succeeded in doing so. Both of them were ratted out by a house servant who discovered their plans.

Died by electric chair alongside his wife on November 20th 1890

Has hypnosis powers and a deadly poisonous bite, the poison from his bite can immobilize sinners depending on how much poison comes out of his fangs (The poison can last from a day to a few weeks)

I made him a mix between his pilot and show counterparts - A hammy, but dangerous and somewhat competent supervillain sinner who can be caring and affectionate to his loved ones (Mari and the Egg Boiz.)

He's a snake in Hell with tons of eyes because of two reasons. He hated snakes when alive, and he had scopophobia when alive because of the glares he received by bystanders and his rivals alike. Mari helped him grow out of it.

He speaks very fancifully to reference the Victorian age, he also doesn't swear too much aside from referring to Angel and Cherri as whores spitefully

He only keeps up with Technology and Music in Hell, he couldn't care about anything else.

The reason he's not in Purgatory is because he achieved one of his goals in life, which was getting rid of his rivals.

That's all, feel free to give your opinion on the redesign.

[phasesofpencils]

Charlie's Daddy issues feel so forced in the show, like she SO CLEARLY has Mommy issues but this franchise is so fixated on the running bit that literally everyone has Daddy issues they just completely ignore Charlie's mommy issues. can't set up Lilith's character and twist too much, god forbid we SET SOMETHING UP properly to be paid off in the future. No let's focus on the daddy issues.

Especially Charlie's line about how "We've never been close - he only calls if he's bored or needs something." Like alright if he was ONLY calling you bc he needs you to do something that's one thing. But you're upset cus he calls you when he's bored??? When the fuck do you want him to call you???

Wow he calls when he's bored and wants to TALK TO HIS DAUGHTER?? Wow Charlie you're right the absolute nerve of that guy, who does he think he is?? Your Dad- oh wait.