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punkrogue · 2 years

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Confession: I used to be one of those antis who hated the Roguneto age difference and saw Gambit as the "correct" love interest. But then I got older and stopped thinking about things in black and white, I realized that Rogue doesn't give a shit since her two adopted moms also have an age difference. I think a lot of Rogue "fans" project their thoughts and desires onto Rogue instead of accepting some of the less stereotypical sweet "Southern Belle" image they like to compartmentalize her into (one reason why 80s Rogue is superior to 90s Rogue is she's a subversion of the stereotype instead playing it straight like the more palatable to general audiences 90s version of the character). Looking back, I like how the "I can't touch a man" problem was sorta resolved with Roguneto in AoA, so instead Rogue's character focus in that universe is being a team leader and going apeshit to protect her son instead of angsting over Remy and how she can't have sex with him.

First off I think that regardless of context concepts like the "correct" love interest are never good. I think that's just become more and more obvious over the years as fandom has become more toxic and more people feel comfortable calling you shit like an abuser for liking a "problematic" or hero/villain kinda ship. The ships are fictional, the people aren't. Who gives a fuck if people ship milo from atlantis and yzma from the emperor's new groove (yes this is a real ship i've seen) it's not my problem. Neither of us will gain or lose brownie points with a god or whatever because we shipped the right ship. Not an attack on you just my Thoughts because that's a common issue now in fandom that I know I certainly didn't see it at these scales when I was a teen.

AS FOR THE OTHER STUFF--

god you're spitting SO MUCH TRUTH.

Okay I wrote the rest of my reply to this originally in notepad bc i don't trust tumblr and god.... this is so long 💀

But then I got older and stopped thinking about things in black and white, I realized that Rogue doesn't give a shit since her two adopted moms also have an age difference.

It never occurred to me before how the age gap between Mystique and Irene would effect her perspective but that’s such a good and interesting point! We’re not clear on even when Mystique was born or how old she really was when she met Irene and we know Irene is like easily 100 when she dies. She and Mystique met in the late 1800s — even if you keep her dying in the 80s and don’t fudge around the timeline at all for the current date 1880 to 1980 is a century. Rogue was raised by geriatric lesbians. Idk WHAT this means for her psychologically or in how her love map got formed but it’s a Thing lol. I think the big takeaway really from being raised by mystiny is really that she expects a certain level of partner care and maturity and in syncness. Say what you want about Irene and Mystique as people but they’re absolutely an in love and loving couple. They’re totally in sync and have complete faith in each other, they’re each other’s rocks. Which ofc is why Mystique went so off the rails when Irene died.

There’s definitely a lot to be said about her expecting/needing/wanting a certain amount of maturity in her partner as a result of being raised by two older women in a very established relationship. Barring the dudes who’re born in test tubes (Longshot and Joesph) basically all her love interests are older than her by some amount. Even Remy is at least a few years older than her no matter how you pace out his life.

I tend to think worrying about age gaps in a society/world or whatever like comics is dumb when everyone in question is legal. Half of them are like 50+ by now (the 05 were teens in the 60s technically, xavier fought in the KOREAN WAR, etc), some are aliens, some are gods, some people got stuck in a time loop for like 2 years, some people where in another dimension for a while, etc etc etc. It’s more trouble than it’s worth to get up in arms about it when you’re not talking about adult/minor pairings. Magneto is like, 100 now sure. He’s also been de-aged like, twice, once that I remember to the point of being a fucking toddler again. This is automatically so fucking wild and impossible to map to anything real world you’re just gonna hurt yourself trying to comprehend the ramifications of that catastrophic life change on even how the fuck he STILL REMEMBERS HIS PREVIOUS LIFE AS AN ADULT AFTER THAT let alone his future relationships with anyone lol.

I think a lot of Rogue "fans" project their thoughts and desires onto Rogue instead of accepting some of the less stereotypical sweet "Southern Belle" image they like to compartmentalize her into (one reason why 80s Rogue is superior to 90s Rogue is she's a subversion of the stereotype instead playing it straight like the more palatable to general audiences 90s version of the character).

I think you’re very right about that. When you sit down and read Rogue’s comics through all at once the difference between her in the 80s and her in the 90s is wild and not in a good way. All the edges get knocked off of her, her morals become simplified, they gloss over her tense relations with the rest of the X-Men even more than they did before. She was created with the kind of character design slogan “the girl from the wrong side of the river” and it very much seems like few people remember that when writing or drawing her and I know why that is to some extent — stripping away her “problematic” nature (remember, Rogue DID stalk and attempt to murder Dazzler and did some other fucked up shit), stressing her more mainstream insecurities, removing her heavy metal/punk/butch interests and making her more in line with a 90s pinup girl in looks makes her more appealing and fuckable to the mainstream predominately male audience of comics. Alt girls are niche. She only got to get her tat sleeve and be a motorcycle mechanic and sing rock songs and be really wild again when Claremont takes her over again in X-Treme X-Men in 2001 and it really does feel like a breath of fresh air. She’s rough and coarse and rude again. She and Storm are at each other’s throats at times. She’s angry and she’s reckless and she’s funny and she’s you know That Bitch.

“Okay but characters change and grow, they kind of have to, and just because their creator intended them to be one way doesn’t mean they have to stay that way,” some will say and this is true! If we kept to the letter of the character creator’s intentions Cable would be boring as fuck and Shatterstar wouldn’t be pansexual. But here’s the thing—

Both of those Liefeldian monstrosities still to this day have maintained their “character slogan”, their Vibe, their Flavor if you will.

Cable is still a super douche with mega guns and 80 pouches who loves shooting things and is Edgy. He’s just better written now and has more depth. Shatterstar is still an American Gladiator made into a Real Gladiator clone boy thing who loves carnage and communes thru media lingo. He just sucks dick now. And is better written.

Note how this is not what happened with Rogue. Consider how LITTLE of her time in the 90s was say, about her conflicted feelings about her Still Evil Mom or her trouble really making friends in the X-Men because of personality differences or you know HOW HER POWER SUCKS THE SOUL OUTTA THEM or her love of mechanics or any of the other things that really only seem to crop up when it’s Claremont or someone taking notes from his characterization at the wheel. Her Character Vibe is “girl from the wrong side of the river joins a different paramilitary group for better healthcare”. THAT’S LITERALLY WHO ROGUE IS. THAT’S WHY SHE JOINED THE X-MEN. There’s absolutely room for growth here but that growth does not mean she has to stop having a mullet, or stop wearing studded belts, or stop being the other lovable unwashed mongrel in the house next to Logan.

But Possum Girl is not fuckable to most men so they don’t wanna write it and they don’t wanna see it and very few girls wanna see it because they can’t project themselves onto that. Also, misogyny— internalized or otherwise. Girls aren’t allowed to be ratty, loud, coarse, butch, aggressive etc etc etc. Rogue’s name is FUCKING ROGUE she’s NOT A SOUTHERN SWEETHEART that literally DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF HER.

“When she was younger, Rogue thought the name made her sound like an outlaw. she played the part to perfection—using her power to imprint the skills and psyches of anyone she touched—until she realized she was stealing little bits of their souls." — X-Treme X-Men I think I cannot for the life of me remember what issue this is from but I know it’s a comic quote I had to type it out myself years ago since it’s not quoted anywhere else.

“The name 'Rogue' is not just a super hero code. She is very much a wild child. She likes danger and is much more of a Mississippi soul than a Louisiana soul.” — Claremont in a 2016 interview.

Rogue is SUPPOSED to be rough and wild and reckless and YEE-FUCKING-HAW MOTHERFUCKER. She’s r/THE_PACK in mutant form. There’s SO MANY WAYS to allow her to grow and change that do not mean she must sacrifice the skynyrd. But she doesn’t get to keep that. Cable gets to keep his stupid fucking pouches and his grimdark 90s patina but Rogue’s gotta have BIG 90S BAYWATCH HAIR and wear DAISY DUKES LIKE THAT ISN’T FUCKING VICIOUS ENDANGERMENT OF EVERYONE’S LIVES all so she can be the sexy southern gal and spend the majority of the 90s hemming and hawing over the practical logistics of hopping on Remy’s dick as though that man doesn’t have enough working general sex and BDSM knowledge to tackle the logistical end of a hookup with her and instead of trying to WORK WITH HER ON THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES just kinda fucking pressures her like a 10yo boy demanding a kiss from his crush for a while there before someone fucking LET HIM HAVE BETTER WRITING. Both of them are done dirty by that and most current writers more likely than not came in on this version of Rogue and Remy which is why we’re now being subjected to their malformed vapid bastard children in modern comics.

80s Rogue (and a lot of 00s Rogue) Imo are the superior Rogues because she’s an alternative girl. We have PLENTY of more mainstream girls in the X-Men but we don’t have any really who are ratty and mentally unstable and metal/punk and cause issues and don’t always sync up totally with X-Men “philosophy” and who’re Really Okay with committing Lots Of Violence and who are like, AGGRESSIVELY not perfect.

Why they chose to live in fucking nowhere Mississippi and what their financial situation is and just— whatever the fucking deal with Mystiny while they raised Rogue aside — Rogue is created as a mentally ill at risk runaway youth living in a foster/adoptive home and is heavily coded as poor/white trash. Like, I get very baffled by what the fuck is going with her early childhood with Mystiny (there’s a LOT of conflicting info) but i tend to assume they're living middle-classish since you know Mystique got that $$$. But Rogue absolutely at least coded as a lower class rough and tumble girl in the 80s and that’s like….. actually very important????????? That’s huge????????? Especially since the X-Men are the Disenfranchised Minorities with Superpowers wonder show.

Now look at any 90s comics or 10s-20s comics and show me ANY issue where “white trash” or “raised by Mystique and Destiny” shines through. Didn’t find any did you? Yeah. Thought so. This is why they’re the shittiest eras of Rogue Comics.

Looking back, I like how the "I can't touch a man" problem was sorta resolved with Roguneto in AoA, so instead Rogue's character focus in that universe is being a team leader and going apeshit to protect her son instead of angsting over Remy and how she can't have sex with him.

Part of why I like Roguneto in general is we just generally skip all the gross borderline fetishist talk about how she can’t fuck because she’d kill a dude or whatever. Magneto fucks. He just DOES. You look at him and you go "oh this man FUCKS". We don’t need to spend time on the fucking mechanics of it — in fact to do so seems INSANE. OFC HE FUCKS!!! NEXT QUESTION! Now yes Remy elicits the same kind of response but not the same level. Magneto is 3 grown children levels of fucks. DILF and GDILF fucks levels. This whole drama is completely fucking stupid with MAGNETO as the stage partner. HE’S LIKE 100 YEARS OLD AND HE OWNED A METEORITE. ROGUE HAS FIST-FOUGHT LIKE ALL OF HIS CHILDREN AT LEAST ONCE. WE HAVE OTHER THINGS TO ADDRESS.

After like 20 years of writers being weird little fetishist creeps about how exactly the logistics of Rogue and Remy fuckin would work when like that’s what a gimp suit and condoms are for, it’s refreshing to just not feel the WEIGHT of that forced conflict hanging over a romantic relationship of hers. With romy there’s SUCH a hyper focus by the writers on their sex life half the time not their overall relationship and it’s just weird and gross. Like they fuck, they figure it out and she works thru her fear of touch— can we talk about rogue’s mental instability and how that affects the relationship and remy’s fear of rejection/abandonment now?????????????? THAT'S WHAT I'M ACTUALLY HERE FOR!!!!!! YALL CAN'T SELL ME SMUT SO STOP OBSESSING OVER IT LIKE PRETEENS AND TELL ME ABOUT THEIR MESSY RELATIONSHIP DRAMA!!!!!!

Rogue also tends to just be fucking bonkers more when she’s with Magneto and I like that. She’s less southern belle and more fuck it we ball and it’s refreshing. It’s a nice combo of personalities platonically and/or romantically because Magneto is really an EXCELLENT emotional/mental rock which she needs and Rogue is 10000000% not afraid to call him a lil bitch to his face and he NEEDS people around him to help keep his ego/doom spirals in check.

Their arguments feel more like real conflicts and debates. When they team up it feels more solid and like a partnership. They just feel like there's more weight and oomph in their interactions. Magneto has such a power and gravity to him. He's literally one of the immovable tent poles of the X-Verse. They'll be finding ways to keep him on the field even when he'd be 1,000 in comic years. So by interacting with him it let's her be more of a serious character. She gets to square up unstoppable force to immovable object and really test herself against him while also knowing at the end they're gonna shake and say "good game."

You don't get that with Remy because Remy's not solid like that, he's built to move. He's meant to be flexible. If you take away his flexibility (morally, in personality, in allegiance, in wants, in self-image etc) then he's just not him anymore. But the issue there is Rogue is also malleable — she's literally absorbing other people. That's two rubber people trying to help each other stand. It ain't gonna work and none of the comic writers wanna put in the real effort to MAKE it work. (fic writers ofc, have cracked this code and know how to write romy who can actually work and be compelling even into the modern era)

for me, Remy was a good first love interest for her and I love his character and I still love their dynamic — just now in a more platonic way. Meanwhile Magneto is a better second and potentially endgame relationship for her. He's more where she is in life now and he both gives her someone to depend on when she's going fucking batshit from her powers and also someone to sharpen her claws on who can take it and dish it back.

#answered #meta #rogue darkholme my beloved #PLEASE 80S ROGUE TRUTHERS AND ROGUNETO TRUTHERS SPEAK YOUR PEACE AAAAAAAA #i need to find more of my people i feel like a crazy person half the time bc i have what feels like SUPER UNPOPULAR rogue opinions lol #glad to see more people who don't like 90s rogue! there are dozens of us!!! DOZENS!!!!#same for roguneto fans DOZENS!!!!!#thompson and howard i will find where you live i'm not afraid to die #also evo rogue is the best adaptation of rogue ever PERIOD

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