#I’ve never received hate from a wincest shipper so…….

[woundlingus]

There’s something about being a sabriel shipper than inoculates you against stupid ass ship discourse because I am grounded entirely in reality which is that neither Winchester is canonically queer and frankly neither of them are even queer coded post season 2 and haven’t been for a very long time outside of homophobic jokes people like to take too seriously. My ship isn’t real, I actually don’t need it to be because I’m having something called FUN that the rest of the fandom has forgotten how to have, I have FUN when I make things that are not queer explicitly queer for my own enjoyment and some of you need to accept that your megaships aren’t more real just because there’s more of you to have that argument, you are doing the exact same thing as the rest of us. Your ship isn’t real either babe, how about you just have fun too? The show died a long time ago, how about you pull the stick out and relax?

[alwaysthrowsscissors]

Fic Writer Questions!

Thanks for the tag @venhedish dont mind if I do darlin'! Loved reading your answers too!

1) How many works do you have on AO3?

17 and I started May 2020

2) What's your total AO3 word count?

84,430! Sooooo close to that 100k milestone I just need to get off my writing hiatus since I have a beefy one shot WIP and a couple kink-meme prompt fills started that will get me to the finish line!

3) How many fandoms have you written for and what are they?

On Ao3/as an adult, just Supernatural.

4) What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

Well Jung – This was my first and I’m still super surprised it took off so well considering all the head-hopping. I also hadn’t written fiction since high school so it’s pretty technically rough!

I Can’t Forget the Time and Place Where We Just Met – Who doesn’t love a good old-fashioned double amnesia fic! This was a SPN Masquerade fill and it was super fun to write!

Kiss the Cook – Another SPN Masquerade fill inspired by Dean in an apron in S15. Kitchen fucking is fun fucking!

Iodine and Stitches – 3/5 SPN Masquerade fills that I did fall 2020. Seriously such a fun event to participate in I cant recommend it enough. This is one my only fics with a serious tone throughout which is tough for this clown.

Double Jeopardy – Written for my buddy after finding out she has an intelligence kink! Cut to us giggling about Sam losing his damn mind when he plays Jeopardy with clever Dean!

5) Do you respond to comments, why or why not?

Listen…I can’t fully express how much comments give me LIFE! I want to know what you liked about my silly musings, I want to know your fav part, I want to know that I gave you a boner! I'll take a button smash, I'll take an emoticon. Anything, everything! I make a point to always respond back to show my appreciation for people taking time out of their day to make my day.

6) What's the fic you've written with the angstiest ending?

Without a shadow of a doubt Yesterday Don’t Matter if It’s Gone about what would happen if Sam and Dean hooked up during Mystery Spot and exacerbated Sam’s downward spiral during the months of Tuesdays. I write a lot of humour and this sucker is humourless PLUS has an unhappy ending! Weeee!

8) Do you write crossovers? If so what is the craziest one you've written?

Never have but not opposed to the idea.

9) Have you ever received hate on a fic?

Nope, I’ve been pretty fortunate but I also write pretty tame shit. So if I start dabbling more in the archive warnings it may change. I do have a fun multichap wincestiel non-con WIP in the works 😈

10) Do you write smut? If so what kind?

AHAHAHAHAHA I’d say a good 90-95% of my 84k wordcount is smut! All M/M all explicit! Fun times over at Casa Scissors 😏. I do have some upcoming stuff that’s more plot heavy though which I’m looking forward to.

11) Have you ever had a fic stolen?

I fucking hope not that would be a big bummer.

12) Have you ever had a fic translated?

Yes! And as a noob I had to pinch myself, it still fucking blows my mind! A lovely Ao3 user Yigelulu translated I Can’t Forget the Time and Place Where We Just Met into Chinese. It was so incredibly cool to see my words in another language and a great honour that they liked my fic enough to put in all that work!

13) Have you ever co-written a fic before? Yup! Turn Your Head and Cough with my budbud Wearingdeantoprom. Dean gets his prostate rubbed for the first time at the doctors office.

14) What's your all time favorite ship?

Wincest wincest all the wincest! My brain is infected and there is no cure! I am a pro-shipper though ship and let ship my dudes. I also dabble in wincestiel and LOVE any combination of winkline and may write it one day. I don’t really read much from other fandoms. I’ve read some George/Fred (I like brother fucking ok?) and I love me some Jess Mariano/Dean Forester over in the Gilmore Girls camp (the perfect enemies to lovers) but its unfortunately such a small ship. Any souls reading this who like those ships, please drop any recs into my box!

15) What's a WIP that you want to finish but don't think you ever will?

Anything I am passionate about I will finish. I’ve only killed one thing because I got bored with it but I posted my fav part for a fic challenge. I hate not having something to show for my spent time (I know it's a hobby but it's the principle damnit!) and I hate unfinished things. Those damn little ao3 red circles haunt me 🚫

16) What are your writing strengths?

Christ uhhh I’ll say I’m most consistently praised in comments for my dialogue and it’s what always flows the smoothest for me. I think my humour is also a strength, it comes very naturally when I write which is why I have a hard time keeping it out of my fics! Times are tough I just wanna make y’all giggle ok?

17) What are your writing weaknesses?

Frankly, my greatest weakness is that I don’t take it seriously enough to look at my past writing critically for improvement. I also write (non-fiction) for my job and had extensive training to do so, so when its for this hobby I honestly whip it out, edit a couple times, and slap it up ‘good enough’ styles and I don’t go back to re-read once posted. I think if I looked back, I could see lots of opportunities for improvement and could go from a fine writer to a good writer. I’d also say that I’ve written pretty fun fluffy cracky smutty stuff so I guess another weakness is a lack of depth of plot and subject matter. I do want to explore this stuff more though.

18) What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

My concern is if you don’t speak the language fluently, then native speakers reading your fic might feel a big disconnect if you get colloquialisms and euphemism etc. incorrect. It could take them out of your fic if its not authentic enough. I don’t speak any other language fluently so it would END BADLY. I can speak and read French VERY POORLY and that’s it so no, I will never write in another language unless its jibberish I invented myself!

19) What was the first fandom you wrote for?

The only fanfic I wrote before SPN last year was a handful of super cracky, gen Gundam Wing fanfiction in high school!! They are on a broken USB stick which kills me I want to read them so badly! All my other creative writing was original fiction mainly horror/thrillers. I stopped when I started my undergrad cause...that shit is a lot of work yo.

20) What's your favorite fic you've written?

My first love is my first baby Well Jung. I love the plot, I love the humour in it, I love the heart, and it’s still some of my fav sex I’ve written. And the title makes me giggle too who doesn’t love a bad pun? I'm so thrilled it was so successful but it would still be my favourite even if 3 people read it. It made me rediscover writing as a hobby and helped me explore this wonderful (yet insane) fandom. I love all my babies and I even think the writing is stronger in other fics, but he will always be #1 in my heart.

OK this was fun I love talking about fic writing! If any of you read my stuff and want to know more, hit me with an ask; I love making new frans! Tagging @oddsocksandstuff @samanddeaninpanties @raidens-realm I think my other writer mutuals have been tagged by Ven!

[found--family]

@ Blue Heart Nonny in my inbox (yes, i can answer your ask without posting it. no worries 💙) 

here are the cliff-notes for everyone else: 

there ARE Bronly blogs that are unhappy with Dean's ending because it wasn't fulfilling/he didn't get happiness/was killed off/the narrative undid years worth of character growth 

those same blogs as well as others think Sam's ending was lacklustre 

okay. so because i don't interact with such blogs i wasn't aware of this, but after a quick inspection thanks to Nonny, i find that it's true. 

I'm not surprised, exactly. most of the Bronly blogs I've come across over the years have been vocal about Dean as an individual, a character who deserves his own narrative journey separate from Sam as well as Cas (of course 99% of them were anti-Cas so ofc i skiddadled out of there). And Sam Stans wanted a happy ending (domestic or otherwise) for him, one that's full of sunshine and smiles and yes, Found Family (the members of which do change from blog to blog). 

all ships and Cas-hate aside, it was reassuring to see these bloggers recognise the endgame narrative as lacking, regressive, depressing and OOC for both Sam and Dean. 

they didn't like the ending. 

*cue solidarity meme* 

this is important to note because what makes this fandom so special is our love for these characters and the complexity of the characters themselves (as has been mentioned on a fair few reaction posts already). we all want them to be happy, but we also want their journey not to have been for naught, we want their individual endings and the narrative as a whole to make sense because we've been with them through all of their struggles to learn and grow and try to find some peace and their own sense of purpose and meaning. 

what I'm trying to say, is that while I'm a Destiel shipper I am first and foremost a fan of the characters - Dean and Cas, and Sam and Jack and all members of the collective Found Family the boys have met and embraced along the way. 

I've shared a LOT of anti-Bronly content over the past 24hrs, but i'm not just angry that the bros-only ending pushed Cas and Destiel out of the narrative, I'm angry because that ending also did a disservice to these beloved characters as individuals. it brought back the toxic codependency after 15 seasons of the brothers fighting to be their own people, to be in each other's lives but not have their happiness dependant solely on each other. 

*

Dean didn't get to live his own life and he died laughably, pitifully. His Heaven wasn't even his own and he ended up right back where he started: on a roadtrip to nowhere, alone. And in the end (Heaven) Dean was denied being allowed to embrace the self-love he'd learned on his journey and discover a life of his own and happiness that he deserved, /before/ reuniting with Sam. Sam got a liftime, Dean deserved the same, especially considering Dean's the one who never really believed that he deserved such a thing (but was recently convinced he was worth saving, worth happiness, worthy of giving and receiving love - yes, thanks largely to Cas) and canon chose to hammer home that idea like the nail in Dean's back, like the blunt little instrument Dean thought he was (but isn't). 

Sam's domestic montage was lacking substance and emotion and the overall vibe was wholly depressing, sending the message that he couldn't live a happy life without his brother when we know he has managed that/wanted that through the seasons. It was like he was just going through the motions for Dean's sake until they could be reunited by death. 

Frankly, Sam's montage would've been a LOT more heart-warming if his Found Family was present, or at least if Eileen was his wife (we still don't know) and they shared smiles/kisses/dancing in the living room. Maybe the Found Family thing was Covid, but for Eileen i call bullshit on the account of Jenny's presence and the fact that Shoshannah is also one person, not a bridge-full. Worst case scenario they could've shot her scenes separate and blended them with body doubles etc. Hell, i would've accepted a video call presence as a last resort. It would've made for an ending I was emotionally connected to. Instead we got strangers, a swiss-cheese life (missing pieces), and a depressing oldman!Sam. I could've bought the oldman!Sam dying after a long full life - but the montage left me (and Sam) unsatisfied with that Life. I mean, 15 years worth of content took.. 15 years to go through and emotionally invest in, so you really have to bring your A game to condense 50-odd years into a minute or two - and they didn't. That was some C-minus bullshit. 

And then there's the Heaven thing.

Sam pretty much shows up in Heaven right after Dean dies. I reiterate, Dean didn't get to live his own Life nor his own Afterlife. Sam had the chance at a Life, and Dean could've easily had his own Afterlife if the writers had allowed it: a montage of Dean fishing in Heaven, sharing drinks with Bobby, Miracle the dog showing up, Dean working or karaokeung in the Roadhouse (an improvement on the Rocky's bar fantasy) Dean experiencing all kinds of happy and domestic things - and it should've been with Found Family, but again if Covid is to blame there were ways to work around that with blurred background people and body doubles and voices off-screen. 

Instead, Dean's individual storyline is erased as he's reduced to a footnote in Sam's afterlife. No happiness in life and no meaningful afterlife he can call his own. Sam's family will eventually join him in Heaven, but Dean is left lacking in friendships as well as a romantic partner. The real Sam's heart would've broken at that, and the real Dean would've been unhappy and would've sought out people and meaningful relationships (again, Found Family). 

BTW: i saw mention that the lack of Found Family in Heaven is because they're not dead yet.. *cough* let's recap some dead loved ones who could've made an appearance shall we: Jo, Ash, Ellen, Rufus + Mary + John (all mentioned but none shown), Pamela, Kevin, Adam, OG!Charlie, Missouri.. hell, even Henry or Ketch or Frank.. i would've been overjoyed at seeing Cassie again, because we don't know who's dead or not. Krissy, Cesar, Jesse - they could've died, especially since in the time it took for Dean to take his little roadtrip, Sam lived 50-odd years on earth. So, if we're going by canon's timey-wimey rules they could've easily brought back any Found Family member they wanted. 

but, again, we got random vamp Jenny.

simply put, Covid is not to blame and there were many simple tweaks that could've made the finally on some level. instead the characters and the audience are left devastated and wanting. 

i know we don't see heart-to-heart on shipping matters, but even Destiel shippers and Bronlies can agree Sam and Dean didn't get the happy, satisfying endings their characters and 15 years worth of narrative deserved. 

* note: Bronlies (not Bibros) are invited to share their thoughts on this post about Sam and Dean's individual endings, but please avoid negative Destiel talk, negative Cas talk, and any wincest talk. 

[flyingcatstiel]

(1/2)I'm the anon who said I don't agree that wincest is canon. Sorry I certainly wasn't trying to start a discussion if you weren't up for it. I think it's possible our difference in opinion is down to culture. I'm from an Asian country where such gestures between siblings would be perceived differently (though this level of intimacy certainly toes the line). I guess I shouldn't project on what is an American show and vastly different from my own culture.

(2/2)And don't worry about making me uncomfortable; I've no siblings and intimate relationships like this just don't exist in my own life. It's also possible I'm trying to convince myself wincest is not a thing because I so desperately wanted Destiel; I relate with Cas so much and as someone on grey-ace spectrum I really wanted to see someone like him end up happy. :( I already have given up on there ever being explicit ace spectrum representation so this is as close as I could get. 

Hello fellow fan from an Asian country! I’m European expat living in Japan, so yes, I think we come at this scene from different angles. I already posted another ask about THAT scene and lol, I also lost 2 followers since your first ask, so I don’t know if it was because of wincest discussion or not. But here’s a thing I do know. We must talk about it. I think a lot of destiel fans tried really hard to ignore wincest subtext and avoided talking about it, partly because we didn’t want to deal with anon hate. I mean, so many of us at least once have received a message along the lines “destiel will never be canon because the show is about the brothers”. Which is so funny, because it implies that romantic destiel is the same type of relationship as brotherly love, and Dean just happens to love Sammy more. But since the CW has greenlit the SPN finale that goes out of it’s way to establish incestuous vibes in Sam and Dean brotherly bond at the expense of romantic destiel, we have to give them their dues. Like I said in my previous answer, it is not only Dean’s death scene, it is the whole episode designed to show that without each other the brothers are miserable. So kudos to the CW for embracing incest. I guess those GoT laurels are so tempting.

In your first ask you said I don’t see anything wrong in choosing familial love over romantic love (which I believe for Dean is directed at Cas if anyone at all). 

and I didn’t know how to tackle it then, but I think I have gathered my thoughts now. So, in Western literature/ media choosing your romantic partner over the wishes of your family is usually portrayed as a peak romance, while following the wishes of your family is a path to heartbreak (mmmm, Persuasion). There are different takes on it, but if the romance is central to the story, this is the usual pattern. And on SPN that is the choice Cas had to face in s10. Cas gave up his angel army and chose Dean. As a destiel shipper, from this point forward I expected no less from Dean and the show seemed to move towards breaking the toxic codependency between the brothers. Thing is, for Dean, familial love is not tied to his big family that raised and supported him, Dean’s familial bond is with only one person, Sam. His younger brother he practically raised by himself. So, while there are stories where choosing familial bond over romantic one is a prudent thing to do, especially if the love interest is a scoundrel, it is almost never about choosing your only able bodied, adult sibling over your lover. In the movie Love, Actually, one of the stories is about a woman breaking up with her lover in order to be a caretaker to her disabled sibling. Her choice hurts her lover just as much as her. It is not a happy story. This is why I can’t see Dean choosing Sam as an expression of familial love. They both are able bodied adults, they need more people in their lives, romantic and platonic partners, If they chose each other, it is toxic codependency and incest. The CW is just trying to be coy about it. I mean, they could have done it platonically but for some reason they chose to crank up incest vibes. 

Unfortunately it also meant destroying Cas and his chance at happiness. Cas confession is a beautiful speech theoretically, and I agree with it’s main message about speaking your truth and love, but since it turned to be his last appearance on the show, it is burry your gays trope at its ugliest. SPN finale really took a wrecking ball at all its main themes. And we must live in with a knowledge that GA didn’t even notice it. 

[legacy-of-bast]

this post will probably receive a lot of hate, but in connection with the beginning of the 13th season and its certain “features”, destiel shippers are getting a lot of hate from wincest shippers, bi-bros (?) and others. my dear friends, my dudes. it is showrunners’ decision, not ours, let us ship this ship, we’re not responsible for plot of current season, so please stop. “destiew, anti destiel, destihell”, oh my god, I’m a destiel shipper and I’ve never showed any hate toward other ships in spn fandom, /good for me/, why would you just… do the same? live in peace in this fandom, not sending anon hate fgs, it is not our prerogative, it’s TPTB’s.

and also… for this I will receive a lot of hate, but I saw this quote, I don’t remember who wrote that, someone from bi-bros: “we ship wincest and we know it won’t go canon, but we do not write weird-ass metas, see the great symbolism in little details because it’s not there, destiel won’t go canon because destiel doesn’t exist, dean loves sam, etc.”

I scroll down, two posts later, “wincest will go canon, because it’s wincest, not losecest”.

what.

anyway, make a choice.

[tinkdw]

I did not go on tumblr at all from july until august, because I got so much hate and negativity from bibros. I don't want to see Wincest shippers negatively, bc I know not all of them are like that. I'm really passionate about destiel, but I would never hate on any of the actors, their wives, or people that have other opinions. And I don't hate Sam. I love him just as much as Dean. I don't know when it all became like this in the fandom, but I don't get it. We all love the same show, don't we??!

Absolutely, we all seem to love the same show. It's a shame some people use that to then go into hate and wank. Taking anything one "loves" and getting negative about it is more about a person's own self imo than the topic, unfortunately it's just their negative personality that projects into the show than something to do with the show itself. Hence their reading of the show makes no sense then they get even more angry when the show does things that contradict their negative wrong reading and send the actual writers, meta writers and other people who see the positive hate.I've posted a few things recently about antis because man it's been ridiculous and calling out for some Bobo twitter love etc and I do get anti hate that I rebuff so I have received a lot of asks about antis, however I really don't want this blog to just turn into a wank blog itself by responding to them all so please don't get offended if I don't answer you all, I just can't!