#Lian is not a meta

[nelkcats]

Danny is a meta Babysitter

Is not public information, but all Crime Alley know it, ¿the only rule? Don't tell the heroes

So, imagine the surprise when Roy Harper contacted him (¡¿cause Hood recommended!?)

[biboomerangboi]

Hua Cheng essentially cockblocking himself for possibly all of eternity will literally never not be the funniest thing MXTX ever wrote.

Xie Lian was pretty much completely in love with him the second he saw those lanterns (and completely oblivious about it) and then we get the wonderful first kiss underwater moment and Xie Lian is basically drawing hearts around Hua Cheng every time he sees him. While like quietly dying cause he literally has no idea what to do with it. Like at this point he doesn’t even really understand that he is head over heels totally gone for this man.

Until Hua Cheng is like I have a beloved I just haven’t won them over yet. Which he thinks is perfectly reasonable because his self esteem is the worst and he doesn’t understand how he could have won Xie Lian over yet. (He’s only on step 22 of his Marrying Dianxia 3000 step Master Plan ((that he debates throwing out on a regular basis because he doesn’t deserve to even dream about wanting Xie Lian)). So course he’s like yeah I have this wonderful noble beautiful beloved I just haven’t won them over yet wink wink nudge nudge.

But Xie Lian is like oh of course obviously I don’t deserve nice things and fuck I actually wanted him so badly I’m actually in love with him and now I will resign myself to never being happy for his sake. (Their combined self esteem is truly a so low it’s a hole in the ground which is hilarious because they think the other person is to good for them and unattainable forever because they literally have the same neurosis.) So he starts boxing up his feelings forever constantly wanting Hua Cheng and feeling guilty about it and literally dying inside because he wants Hua Cheng like he’s never wanted anyone.

Like essentially books 3 and 5 only happen because Hua Cheng has now cursed them both by saying he has a beloved because Xie Lian believes he isn’t wanted and therefore any nice thing Hua Cheng does is just him being nice and not Hua Cheng pulling out steps 23-34 of his plan thinking he still hasn’t won Xie Lian over. (He has he so has but he shot himself in the foot so badly it’s painful to read).

Like thank the Gods Hua Cheng is so unhinged and created the cave of 10000 Gods cause Xie Lian would literally be at his own wedding to Hua Cheng still convinced he wanted someone else and this was in fact a thing they were doing to solve a case together otherwise.

Like he needed something that unhinged to put 2 and 2 together otherwise he never would have caught on he’s Hua Cheng’s beloved. Meanwhile Hua cheng is like 🥺 he’s going to think I’m a weirdo now and I’m only on step 50 of the plan 🥺 like the two of them wouldn’t have been fucking nasty 2 books ago if he just kept his mouth shut and didn’t cockblock himself so violently.

[emotionaldisaster909]

ALSO NOTICE THAT

Hua Cheng smiled when qr said that Xie Lian has him on a leash

AND THIS IS THE FACE HE MADE

AFTER QR SAID THAT XIE LIAN WAS LICKING HIS BOOTS

THAT’S

A L L YOU HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT HIM

[raindrops-on-concrete]

Hua Cheng wearing wedding colours, Xie Lian wearing funeral colours

Hua Cheng's spiritual weapon being forged in a last desperate attempt to stay alive, Xie Lian's spiritual weapon being forged in a futile attempt to die

Hua Cheng who is dead and has died three times clinging to life with everything he has to the point where he became one of the most powerful ghosts in the world, Xie Lian who is immortal and literally can not die trying to kill himself and being self-sacrificing

Hua Cheng who loves life choosing to die for Xie Lian, Xie Lian who wants to die choosing to live for Hua Cheng (live as in actually enjoy living as opposed to being idle and suffering)

[estrella-etoile]

Hua Cheng's Very Different Loves

There is often a fundamental misunderstanding of Hua Cheng's love for Xie Lian. The biggest of them was Mu Qing and Feng Xin's assumption at seeing the Cave of Ten Thousand Gods.

They see Hua Cheng as obsessive, dangerous. And given the history with Bai Wuxian, yeah, not entirely in the wrong for that assumption.

It's hard to understand that Hua Cheng is one who has truly separated his devotion from his romantic love for Xie Lian. Because devotion/worship of a god and love of a person are different.

At least until now, the devout and obsessive level of worship that Hua Cheng exhibits is the first type. The type of a religious devotee. And that cave, that's what we see. Hua Cheng did not make the sculptures and the paintings for Xie Lian exactly, he didn't do it with a plan to bring Xie Lian there and ask for praise, he did it because Xie Lian was his totem, the very thing that could center him even at times of extreme suffering to pull through. Religious love is not something that expects reciprocation, it's not something that requires anything of the subject of worship except their existence. And the Hua Cheng of the past 800 years poured his obsessive love into this type of love, the love that he does not have any expectations for.

We know that Hua Cheng also felt the other type of love. His sexual awakening was downright traumatic. Seriously, imagine being fourteen, and having to defend your beloved god from sex demons who are forcing you to realize that your devotion to your god has an edge of desire, all while said god is stabbing himself to keep from acting on the extreme discomfort of sexual urges forced on him by those same damn sex demons. No wonder Hua Cheng is so absolutely freaked out and a little disgusted about harboring that type of love for Xie Lian.

When Hua Cheng finally finds Xie Lian again after 800 years, I fundamentally believe that Hua Cheng would have been content with an existence of watching over and protecting his god from the sidelines. His devotion mattering more than that sliver of self-loathing desire that would never be erased.

The story we got to read though, the one that makes TGCF so special is the way that the other love grows between Xie Lian and Hua Cheng. They enjoy each other's company, enjoy teasing and talking, enjoy the little touches that they share. When Hua Cheng talks about his beloved, he speaks of his romantic love and winning over that person. He speaks of it shyly, because he knows it is something that has to be shared and has to grow naturally. It's what makes their love story so very human, because Hua Cheng treated his religious love and his desirous love as completely separate from each other. And the best part? Xie Lian knows this, understands this, has no doubt about this.

It means that the scene in the cave, where both Feng Xin and Mu Qing mistook Hua Cheng's obsessive devotion for obsessive desire, Xie Lian recognizes correctly.

And Xie Lian reciprocates those romantic feelings.

I like to picture those days that Xie Lian wakes up and finds the other side of his bed empty, then wanders to the Thousand Lights Temple to see Hua Cheng there changing the single white flower in his god's hands, then bowing his head and saying a prayer. Xie Lian rolls his eyes, because well, he's right there, but it's Hua Cheng's ritual, and whether they are husbands, whether they had rough and enjoyable sex the night before, Hua Cheng won't slack on his religious love just because he gets to share romantic love with his husband and god.

[magicpotatothoughts]

TGCF reread new finds #1

Xie Lian actively and consciously knows that he is attracted to HC the MOMENT THEY MEET in the Ox Cart. Like it’s not just blank gay panic, he knows.

His beauty was deadly like a sword, sharp and mesmerising. Xie Lian only met his eyes for a moment, then lowered his eyes in defeat.

MATE, normally wouldn’t you continue to be mesmerised and can’t peel your eyes away? That is, UNLESS YOURE WHIPPED. XL knows that SL's looks affect him to this degree. Defeat is the key word here.

Also

The distance between them had closed too fast. he suddenly didn't know what to do[...]Xie Lian blanked on the spot. He watched as the tall and slender youth walked away with his giant bag of junk as if it were the most natural thing in the world to do, and it made him mutter inwardly, Forgive my sins.

Making a rich young lad carry your things? Making him sleep in your crappy temple? That doesn't warrant the weighty thought? FORGIVE WHAT SINS Xie Lian??!!!

Many village girls saw (HC) and blushed [...] Xie Lian didn't know what they were going to ask, but felt instinctively that it must be stopped at once, and cried, "No!"

Jealous jealous boi! XL WAS POSSESSIVE after ONE night spent together at Puqi Shrine. Didn’t XL just say to SL that he will have no problem in the love department because girls will throw themselves at him? Yo, why are you cock-blocking? Everyone says HC is insane, no XL is equally insane for the other!

Also, when HC revealed that it's his real skin after the Banyue arc, XL instinctively poked him. Then

He looked at his own finger then hid it away, betraying nothing of his thoughts.

What thoughts XL ?!! Explain yourself right now!

Jumping back to OX CART scene, Xie Lian's character development was foreshadowed when they were talking about the gifting of ghost ashes.

Book 1: Xie Lian sighed. "It certainly is painful to think about, to have given everything for love and lose everything in return."

This is what Xie Lian is most afraid of! Like even thinking back to Xie Lian pushing Feng Xin away in Book 4, he definitely operated under that mindset. Love is a risk, it's something to be feared. Even now 800+ years later, he still feels that way and doesn't allow himself to get close to anyone. It just hits so much harder thinking that he operated under that for so many centuries.

Then Hua Cheng says

"What there to be afraid of? If it were me, I'd have no regrets giving away my ashes"

Which I think really changed the way that Xie Lian thought about love. Book 5 Xie Lian completely operates with Love is empowering and isn't something to be afraid of.

TGCF isn't about XL realising his feelings, literally from Book 1 it's about him wondering if it's worthwhile to act on them.

Three things, is this person worth losing cultivation over for?

He needs the reassurance that this person must reciprocate his feelings.

Then HC changed his perspective on love from FEAR -> EMPOWERMENT.

XL is soooo self-aware (unlike SQQ from SVSSS and WWX from MDZS), he's an unreliable narrator in the way that he doesn't reveal everything to the reader, especially his own feelings until he was absolutely sure that there really was both a physical and romantic attraction. I wanted to make this post to dispel the assumption for XL it was easy to forego 800+ years of cultivation. It was not? He ABSOLUTELY thought about it carefully.

[average-hua-cheng-fan]

another reason i think that xie lian felt an instant connection on the ox cart is because he and hua cheng both grew up in xianle.

there are maybe 4 people still alive that grew up in that culture. based on my own experience, you can pick up on things like accent, cadence, references, and humor that suggest a person is from the same place as you without consciously noticing it. that sense of comfort and similarity probably played into their instant chemistry.

[yea-baiyi]

reading xie lian’s POV is actually hilarious once you realise xie lian isn’t oblivious at all, he basically guesses most things immediately, he’s just taken the veteran autism tactic of “it’s too much effort to figure out when it’s appropriate to mention that i know something, so i’ll just pretend i don’t know until someone says it aloud”. sometimes it turns into a bit. the truth might be embarrassingly obvious, but social cues are hard, and xie lian has infinite time to wait for the other person to blink first.

[illuminatedferret]

Rereading the start of Book 2 is fucking fascinating because 1. how Mu Qing is treated by everyone but Xie Lian boils my blood, but also 2. I cannot believe there are people who think Xie Lian is naive and ignorant of the world after reading what he says and thinks during those first few chapters alone. He is so persistently considerate and sensitive to power imbalances and the abuse of power even before he """stops being naive""".

[missveryvery]

Fucking love Shi Qingxuan. Look at this. Who fucking else would have the audacity to just ignore Hua Cheng when he's telling you to tell Xie Lian something. Shi Qingxuan is like on the phone and Hua Cheng is right beside him like "Tell him to get dressed. Qingxuan. Tell him to get dressed. Tell him to get dressed, Qingxuan. Qingxuan, tell him to get dressed."

And Shi Qingxuan waving at him like "I'm gonna get to it, don't rush me, jeez."

Shi Qingxuan is the absolute best. I love how much he's not afraid of Hua Cheng ;0; like "whatever, boomer" at him.

This does imply Shi Qingxuan saw Ming Yi naked plenty of times and circumstances were such that he felt it was no big deal. "We're all men here :O" god I would die for him, my perfect angel, he's so cute ;0;

[hualianisms]

the tgcf audio drama team understood hua cheng when they said that the core of his whole concept as a character was "Ultimate beauty, ultimate danger, ultimate devoutness". hua cheng and his feelings for xie lian are meant to be the concept of extreme religious devotion + extreme romantic passion, simultaneously.

i also think a lot about how mxtx said that her first concept of hualian, the inspiration that made her write the entire story in the first place, was the image of a fallen god & his last believer.

i think something that sets hualian apart from other romances is this aspect of extreme, intense devotion, where the devotion of a worshipper to their god is equated to and combined with the devotion of a lover to their beloved. hc's love is both of those things at once. hualian is about ultimate devotion of the highest degree to one person, forever.

it's something that goes way beyond a stereotypical crush. like @nyerus said in their excellent hua cheng meta, it's not really something meant to be relatable to us ordinary humans, and instead is meant to be a romantic fable, a fantasy love story for immortals.

[hualianschild]

crying again cuz i just realised hualian are both mama's boy ohmygawd there's xie lian who intentionally cooks food in a horrible way and names them weirdly in remembrance of his mother and immediately went to talk to his mother in her resting place after finding out abt qi rong and then there's hua cheng who left home at the age of 10 after his mother (the only person who loved him at that time) dyed and still remembered one of her love songs that he sings for xie lian (it's not in the book and the author said she that she scrapped that draft off and SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE I'VE BEEN ROBBED) and i also like to believe that they both got their mom's genes CUZ HELLO ??? THEY'RE SO BEAUTIFUL ??

[biboomerangboi]

I just realised we’ve all just assumed that Xie Lian looks at the wraith butterflies and assumes they are beautiful and ethereal because they are soft with him and not weapons but I think we are forgetting this guys special interest is swords and weapons in general he could probably sense just how deadly they were and that only made them more beautiful to him.

[emotionaldisaster909]

After burning the Paradise Manor

Xie Lian got so deeply sad

He believes that he just ruined another relationship with someone who’s dear to him

Someone who treated him so well

Probably the first person to show him such sincere fondness

And he’s already accepted that it can’t be mended

His another failure

All of his own making

In less than a week someone managed to become important to him

And he already managed to betray and hurt them

To spit on everything they’ve so selflessly given him

He didn’t mean to

Didn’t want things to end this way

But of course they did

Again

[baiwu-jinji]

I received a very thoughtful anon ask about Qi Rong and in the process of doing research for the ask, I came across a meta about Qi Rong on the Chinese website Zhihu that I absolutely loved, so I translated the meta into English - anon I will answer your ask ASAP, in the meantime I hope you're interested in this excellent meta:

I think Qi Rong's feelings for Xie Lian isn't that of a fan for his idol, but that of a child for an imaginary "father". So he wouldn't try to understand and study XL's character like Hua Cheng; he's only looking up to this "father figure".

This isn't a baseless conjecture - the relationship between father and son has always been a topic that can't be averted when it comes to Qi Rong. I'm guessing that when he was bullied and excluded by other kids in his childhood, it didn't occur to Qi Rong to hate the circumstances of his family; instead he wished for his father to stand up for him and help him teach those nasty kids a lesson. This wish had always existed in Qi Rong's heart and became a traumatising shadow of his childhood.

Whereas his cousin, the prince Xie Lian, who suddenly appeared in his life to help him, was unconsciously used by Qi Rong to fit his expectation of the "father". XL did what he expected a father to do, so he placed XL in his fantasies about a father. Since his abusive and useless father doesn't cut it, then someone as gentle and strong as XL must be the standard for what a "father" is like. Subconsciously Qi Rong had this idea.

Therefore I think a lot of the dumb and horrible things that Qi Rong did for XL is only due to the anxiety that a son feels towards the indifference of the "father", so he tried to do something compensatory to win the father's attention and approval; but this didn't work out at all.

This is also why he's good to Gu Zi, because Gu Zi is just another Qi Rong - he's abused by the father but still begs for the father's love and doesn't allow others to hurt his father. It's probably because Qi Rong understands what this feels like that he'd pretend to be a seemingly decent "father" for Gu Zi.

(Here the author also points out the connection between Qi Rong and Gu Zi based on their names, which needs to be explained to English readers in more detail - Qi Rong's name "Rong," in Chinese "容", is comprised of two parts: 宀 and 谷. The latter part is "Gu" (谷) as in Gu Zi's name, and the former part 宀 stands for a house or a home - in this sense the character "Rong 容" (Qi Rong) incorprates the character "Gu 谷" (Gi Zi) and provides a "home" or "shelter" for "Gu".)

Qi Rong shows off all kinds of places to the kid that he's never been to, deliberately bigs himself up, and protects the kid at the dire moment, because all of these are what Qi Rong hoped his father would do for him. However, Xie Lian was only a kid himself; how could he answer Qi Rong's expectations for a father?

Qi Rong undoubtedly loathes his biological father, because when Qi Rong was a kid, his father was useless and crass, made a laughing stock of Qi Rong and his mother and became the reason Qi Rong was mocked by other kids. But when Qi Rong needed his father and needed him to scold those kids, his father didn't care about him at all (probably only the father could accomplish this sort of task since Qi Rong's mother was depressed and sickly; this plot is repeated later on in Feng Xin and his son).

When the entire country was being destroyed, his other "father," Xie Lian, became a laughing stock too. XL didn't manage to help him before and after his death. For Qi Rong, this is a replay of the events that happened when he was five years old; this perfect "father" proves no different from his biological father.

So fundementally Qi Rong hates Xie Lian for the same reason that he hates his biological father. He indeed projected too many wishful fantasies on XL, but I think it's more about the son's disappointment towards a "father" instead of a believer's disappointment for a "god". In fact, whether XL activated the human face disease or whether he managed to saved Xianle is of secondary importance to Qi Rong; the complaints someone could voice out loud usually aren't what he actually cares about.

Of course, Qi Rong is possessed by the idea of avenging Xianle to some degree, otherwise he wouldn't have plotted revenge with other Xianle descendants. But what Qi Rong really cared about, he only managed to speak when his soul dissipated - it's what he always wanted to say to Xie Lian and his biological father but never could: "I worship and need you so much, but you don't care about me at all". This is more the case of a son who craves the father's love and complains about it. The relationship between Qi Rong and Gu Zi is comparable to the relationship between Jun Wu and Xie Lian. At least Gu Zi received some paternal love and won't grow up to be like Qi Rong, which is nice.

(For anyone interested in reading the original Chinese, here's the link: https://www.zhihu.com/question/372905885/answer/1735047946?utm_psn=1754070720630493184&fbclid=IwAR0eSI0gya5ERovl1C1Fphv2ZjnXGuKUalA378VWcZjoCj4NiUD7Pw6BDS0)

[estrella-etoile]

I think that when the heavens are returned to normal, Xie Lian starts a little cultivation temple up there. He figures it's never a bad time to keep up good cultivation practices, to help gods keep true to the path. One of the rules is godly powers stay at the door.

Feng Xin and Quan Yizhen are the first to join him, never missing a single combat session. Feng Xin is still in awe of how outclassed he was during the final showdown, and he wants to get better. Quan Yizhen just loves to fight, and Xie Lian has become his second favorite person. He still loses, but the matches are excitingly close.

Pei Xiu joins next, nearly as soon as his detention as a mortal has been lifted. He's never fought with General Hua, and still can't believe that the man who saved his life is right there and beat the crap out of the Emperor.

Pei Ming wants to know what all the hubbub is about. He's a martial god too, who are these younguns who are forgetting this? He has a lot of fun, but no one misses the frustration on his face that he can't hold a candle to Xie Lian. He vows to train harder (but often gets distracted by beautiful ladies).

Lang Qianqiu was hesitant at first. He is worried his old Master would bear some grudge (and vice versa), but more and more, he finds himself slipping into calling Xie Lian "guoshi", and it doesn't feel so weird on his tongue. In fact, it's starting to feel nice again.

Mu Qing holds off as long as he can. He calls the practice a waste of time, claims that the martial gods are all shirking their duties by participating. Okay fine. He guesses he will participate too. His complaints are met with a patient smile by Xie Lian and a lot of swearwords by Feng Xin. No one allows Mu Qing and Feng Xin to spar, afraid of the damage to the capital, and to being even more in debt to Hua Cheng.

Once in a blue moon, Hua Cheng himself joins! Those are the days that only Quan Yizhen volunteers to spar. No one else dares to join, but everyone hides nearby to watch. Someone boldly asks Hua Cheng why he no longer offers up his own ashes should he lose.

Hua Cheng simply says, "They are in a place that I will not take them from, and I hope that they remain in that place for as long as the world turns."

Xie Lian blushes, and clutches the ring so near his heart.