#One for the Phantom Thieves fighting Yaldy

[pastelwhile-art]

An imperfect man in a new, perfect world...

Happy Holidays and New Year! When I got into this game on Christmas last year, I wanted to make a series of drawings to be a love letter to Persona 5 and Akechi's character. I never did the other ones, so it's more of a standalone New Year drawing. It's a bit underwhelming and doesn't really express how much I like this series, but I hope it's nice nonetheless :')

[katsona-the-katsequel]

Sorry, but I saw your post on Nyarly and the other gods? if you don’t mind, How do you think Nyarly would feel about the other protagonists? Or even the groups; S.E.E.S, Investigation Team and Phantom Thieves?

Don't apologize, I love speculation!

Nyarly doesn't think much of humanity in the first place. They're all struggling to prevent the inevitable downfall of mankind and can only serve as toys for greater beings. It is rare for any of them to stand out and make him form an individual opinion of them (tbh the only ones I can think of are Tatsuya and maybe Chandraputra??? I don't think he even thought much of Jun and he "raised" that kid). That being said, we're only going to discuss the teams.

In Nyarly's opinion, SEES is amusing (in a cruel, mocking way). At least in the beginning. They are being manipulated so hard they don't notice they're bringing the end of the world. After Ikutsuki ruins everything by spilling the beans, the team plummets in Nyarly's esteem. Nyarly considers them the same as the St. Hermelin students: Just another group of wannabe heroes fighting against the inevitable. They are a bit more irritating than the St. Hermelin ones, though. Due to SEES' actions, the easiest route to end the world through the Planet Eater has been sealed off indefinitely. Nyarly would blast that Seal if he could, but there's something of the Velvet Room in it so he can't do anything about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Nyarly tried to screw SEES over with the events of The Answer. After it becomes clear the Great Seal isn't going away anytime soon, Nyarly would lose interest in the team as a whole and decide to focus on something else.

If it wasn't for the creation of the TV World in the Expanse, Nyarly wouldn't have noticed something was going on in Inaba in the first place. The Investigation Team is, in Nyarly's opinion, the most cookie-cutter, idealistic, hypocrites ever. Some of the worst humanity has to offer. This immediatly comes to mind:

Then they join the Shadow Operatives and they all blur into one mass of the world's most annoying humans. Whatever.

Honestly, he would like the Phantom Thieves the best. As much as he can like something, anyway. The only thing stopping Nyarly is him. You know. Yaldabaoth. Ugh. The PTs are a creation of the god of control. Even their "enemy", Akechi, is a puppet of his. How boring. There's no real stakes here. Yaldy is going to go ahead with his plan anyway. Ironically, this is the only instance where Nyarly desperately wishes someone would shoot the final god in the face and- oh? Oh? Well, would you look at that. They might not bring the end of the world, but the PTs run around making sure no controlling deities (or wannabe deities) turn everyone into zombies and make everything 100% more boring. Very useful. Sometimes Nyarly even agrees with some of their speeches about "shitty people", though its a shame they aren't as frequent as before. Safe to say, Nyarly is going to keep a closer eye on them. Is that a good or a bad thing? Nyarly hasn't decided yet.

[timeboundterra-reblogs]

No no please write the essay I love to see people’s takes on Satanael

So it only took 14 months for me to get to this, but here we go.

Please take this with a grain of salt, I’m getting a lot of info from a Gnosticism explanation website which might not be all correct. And it’s also being written at midnight.

In the tags I left on your post, I mentioned that the biggest reason for Satanael being Joker’s ultimate persona is because Satanael is the child of Yaldaboath.

According to Gnosticism, Yaldaboath is the demiurge created by the heavenly being Sophia (which might be where Sophia, the AI from Strikers, got her name, but that’s another thought for another essay), who is basically the Gnostic equivalent of an angel (they’re refered to as aeons, divine entities descended from God the Father, and most were born from male-female pairs, along with the blessing of god). Yaldaboath was cast from the heavens into a realm below so early into his existence that he was convinced that he was the first “living” existence. It is explained that Sophia gave birth to a son that was the product of the rebellious and profane desire that had arisen within her, and due to being birthed only from Sophia and without the blessing of God, he was “a misshapen, belligerent creature that was utterly unlike the other heavenly beings.”

Because of this ignorance, foolishness, and malevolence, he created the material world, also trapping sparks of divinity in Adam and Eve. That last bit isn’t too important right now, but it’s clear that Yaldaboath didn’t make the world out of the good in him. There’s a lot of other stuff that happened that also proved that he’s not a good entity, such as creating the old ten commandments and then completely ignoring them, gaslighting those that he created into thinking that he was the one true god, and telling Adam and Eve that the fruit of the tree of knowledge would kill them if it was consumed, among other heinous acts.

As much as I’d like to back up my original claim, I can’t find anything that states similarly or differently, and whenever I do try to google it, lots of persona 5 and megaten (as well as other mythos based games and stories) come up and clutter the results, so there isn’t much. But if I’m understanding this correctly, Satanael was created by Yaldaboath to serve him, along with Yaldaboath’s other “higher” creations.

After some time, Satanael rebels against Yaldaboath, for some reason or another (again, can’t find reason, but one source did mention that Satanael rebelled with a heavenly light rivaling Yaldaboath’s). This leads me to believe that Satanael either found out about the true nature of Yaldaboath being an unjust demiurge, and that he was the bastard son of Sophia, one of the Aeons of Pleroma (greek for Fullness, literally the Gnostic name for Heaven) who atoned for her sin of rebellion and profane desire to conceive without the involvement of her own partner or the consent of God, OR he pitied humanity, OR he simply did not like Yaldaboath’s game of ruin.

In short, Satanael rebelled for the greater good of humanity, where Sophia’s rebellion caused grief and anguish, and Yaldaboath’s own rebellion from the true God put his creation of material on the path to ruin. In a way, Sophia’s rebellion created Yaldaboath, Yaldaboath’s rebellion created Satanael, who then rebelled against Yaldaboath (making Satanael basically a fallen angel), allowing for humanity to continue on in its own path of rebellion.

How does this relate to Joker? Well, we see that Joker’s story in P5 starts with him rebelling against who we think is the big bad – Shido. In most places, you wouldn’t directly rebel against an adult as a child/minor, as you’re unlikely to win. Joker’s rebellion in this part of the story is what kicks off his “fall” as a phantom thief. Shido is the one who created the phantom thieves, if you think about it, that rebel against him towards the end of the story (yes I know they fight Yaldy I’m getting there). While for a time, Yaldaboath is the player’s guide, eventually, Joker does rebel against him, in a direct parallel to Satanael. Yaldaboath created Satanael/chose Joker as the wildcard, and then Satanael/Joker saw the truth of Yaldaboath, and rebelled against him.

Personally, I would think that Satanael would be empathetic towards Joker, in that both were “created”” by Yaldaboath, and then both saw the truth of Yaldaboath, making both rebel against their creator. Kindness isn’t always a driving factor – Joker didn’t save the world for his love of the world, he saved the world because he didn’t want to live in a world where he would be punished for doing the right thing. It’s why he stood up to Shido both times, why he stood up against all of the phantom thief targets. All of them had an influential power that they used for their own gain/devices, just like Yaldaboath. And like Satanael, Joker couldn’t sit by idly. Sure, the way Joker went about his justice wasn’t correct, but correct isn’t always right, nor just.

Joker and Satanael both rebelled for what was right, even if it caused their downfalls, they were both held aloft in the end. In one text, it’s said that Satanael was brought up to Heaven, and Joker parallels this in the fact that he’s found innocent of his initial false crimes of assaulting Shido.

[akechi-stole-my-heart]

I think some people miss the fact that the Phantom Thieves are playing right into Yaldabaoth's hands when they change people's hearts. They're basically proving that people need someone else to act for them and that people aren't willing to solve their own problems. Just look at how they end up sending their targets back into the depths of Mementos.

Don't get me wrong, the Thieves are doing good by freeing people from Yaldy's control and from their selfish distorted desires (which are just another form of control), but they are also showing that people are unwilling to free themselves from Yaldy's control on their own. When people don't free themselves, they only end up being imprisoned even further by society. That's why all the morally redeemable characters in the game change their own hearts, and that's why the Bad Ending is Akira deciding to keep society just as it is under Yaldy's control, with the Phantom Thieves as heroes who continue to change the hearts of individuals, but society as a whole is kept stagnant for eternity.

This is also why the public's support for the Thieves is so important in the final battle. Without their support, the Thieves couldn't have defeated Yaldy, because the public needed to show that they wanted their hearts changed, that they didn't want to be controlled after all. They all needed to show a will of rebellion against their oppressor or the Phantom Thieves would have just become the same thing Yaldabaoth was doing by removing their free will. Prior to fighting Yaldy the PT don't respect the agency of their targets, and they solve other people's problems without thinking about how that might affect the person they're saving. By defeating Yaldabaoth, they let go of that power and give control back to the individuals of society so they can start to change their own lives again. The public shouldn't and can't rely on Yaldabaoth to solve their problems, and they shouldn't and can't rely on the Phantom Thieves to solve their problems either.

And again, don't get me wrong, Persona 5 says that it is good and even necessary to get help from others, but if you really want to improve your life you need to act for yourself. If society is going to improve people need to take destiny into their own hands. Persona 5 is about finding hope even in the darkest circumstances by forging connections with other people and refusing to let society crush you under its heel. But the key to this all is that you must choose to fight against the cruelties of society, even if it seems impossible. Hope for change can be seen by finding belonging with others and working together to change society for the better. In the words of Morgana:

"Even if you feel that only darkness lies ahead...as long as you hold hands together...see it through as one...the world will never end!"

[arcplaysgames]

AT LAST I FINALLY FOUND YOU, YOINK

throbbing king of desire, lmao, did you have fun there localizers?

this place is so fuck ugly i'm sorry i keep gettign distracted going "why does this look so bad" lmao. Atlus, I have notes for you and it's what the fuck are these textures.

BECAUSE YOU TOOK AWAY MY FRIEND IGOR AND YOUR VELVET ROOM FUCKING BLOWS, NEXT QUESTION

god i suddenly remember in P4G i was hypothesizing what cool liminal space the P5 Velvet Room would be. we had elevator and then limo and then.... a prison. i think I was hoping for a train car, which LET'S BE FUCKING REAL, THAT WOULD HAVE FIT PERFECTLY INTO THIS FUCKING GAME. Reverie hopping on the train and walking to the conductor's booth and putting a Velvet Key in the door so it opens to another dimension? that would have been SO FUCKING COOL

AND YALDABOATH TOOK IT FROM US

(autocorrect is like "do you mean whaleboat" lmao)

lmao i love you Morgana. "And?" same energy as "ahem a dumbass says what"

Morgana would so pull that too because Morgana is a perfect character who I will kill for. I am asking to kill for Morgana.

Anyway, we go up against Holy Grailaboath but it's a DISTACTION of course

BRUUUUUUH

that's pretty cool

actually like we're gonna recap but straight up: this ending is still kind of an ass pull like P4G, but not even nearly as severe of an ass pull, like the player gets ZERO in universe hints of whomst the fucketh Yaldaboath is, but at least we have the context of "oh Evil Igor" to go with, so it's not nearly as bad as "The gas station attendant was the Mother of Japan."

ALL THAT SAID, at least this ending Fucks, which P4G did not. P4G should have ended with Adachi and I stand by that bc Izanami was a massive disappointment. Even if I can kvetch about the similarities between this ending and P4G and how much is just a rehash

P5R is like what if the P4G ending was Hot And Sexy, so it is a wild improvement in that sense. It has scale and spectacle on its side, and BALLS TO THE WALL AUDACITY.

Anyway, this fight literally took me 58 minutes, from my save point before the final boss to the point after the cutscenes when the game finally went "yo, you wanna save?" And it's a fun, dynamic fight that at least nods at the brilliance of the Nyx fight in P3P. Yaldy has all the usual tools of the Magician, the bell, the book, the blade, and the... uh.

YOU KNOW I was gonna make a joke about this but HONESTLY? HONESTLY? A gun is a decent replacement for the wand. That's not even a bit.

He's got some bullshit status effects but really, nothing struck fear of god into my heart like when Reverie, armed with Athena and her 53 STR score, got hit with the Jealousy Brainwash and literally almost one hit KOed Mona three times in a row. My fucking PANIC.

Eventually, the game goes into the "okay you beat the boss so here's your cinematic ending" mode like usual. Yaldy starts cheating again and beating the shit out of the Thieves with bullshit total party wipe spells.

kisses morgana on his perfect lil head

oh my god its you

Mishima is like if Issun from Okami was somehow even worse, so he has to show up to rally the masses into clapping their hands and believing in the Phantom Thieves

I'M DOING THIS FOR YOSHIDA TORANOSUKE!!!!!!

AND OUR DAD (BOOGIE WOOGIE WOOGIE)

listen

i'm gonna just

let this one go, okay. i can't criticize every damn thing and its fine because

are you fucking JOKING, are you KIDDING ME, Reverie just summons a COSMIC EVANGELION to beat the god of control with

fucking SATANAEL, who, what, stood with the Demiurge Yaldaboath until realizing his true nature and turning against him, the Gnostic version of Lucifer?

so satan saves christmas

Atlus, you are a bunch of fucking hilarious weirdos, thank you for this moment of sheer fucking ridiculousness

the degree to which this is cooler than Myriad Truths cannot be overstated

sometimes style is substance and this is one of those times

anywhere, where is philharmonic, they need to show up and explain why the fuck they keep letting this shitbird cheat at these dumb fucking causality-deciding games they play, goddammit

[strawberryjamsara]

Also I never really got the statement that the Phantom Thieves don’t seem like friends? While the hangouts we see them doing are usually shorter than the ones in persona 4 we still see them spending a lot of time together and they have more one on one interactions with each other than just the protagonist. There’s Yusuke and Futabas bickering, Makoto and Ann’s lesbianisms, Ann and Ryuji acting like old friends (and how Ann is the most concerned for him when they start dissapearing in the yaldy fight) and the showtime attacks make them all feel like they have individual dynamics within while still being a unit who get together to study, celebrate their victories, and Makoto even calls them her place to belong. Hell, the hot pot scene was one of the most memorable scenes in the game for me. I guess it’s subjective but I love the phantom thieves as a group.

[semi-imaginary-place]

P5 feels a lot like kh3 where it feels like the devs purposefully released the game without it's final arc so that they could charge 30-60$ in an updated version that has that final arc.

Base p5 just kinda feels like the story isn't over. Royal wasn't the only way to do it, and in same ways Strikers fills that gap. But you can see it in the arcana too, in base p5 Joker never reaches the end of his journey the World arcana, he stops at Judgement. Joker doesn't feel like he's teached his conclusion which could have been a good setup for a full sequel actually. It's also comes with some of the other writing problems of p5 like how the phantom thieves never grapple with or really face the consequences of play judge jury and executioner unilaterally brain ashing people based on what they think in best, royal doesn't satisfyingly address this either once again defaulting to it's ok because pt are the "good guys" , but at least royal does something.

I hate it yaldy really feels so dropped in there. The whole last arc doesn't really feel like a goodbye the way this sort of ending should be it's like oh welp the game is over. Which is a shame because the concept of fighting the god of control/authoritarianism is pretty good for what p5 is trying to go for thematically . Except that p5 bungles it's themes, trips over them, over simplifies it to adults suck kids rule, skips over the moral quandary of forcing people to act a certain way because the player characters are "the good guys" who can do no wrong. For a game claiming to be about social rebellion there there is startlingly no social rebellion. The characters don't really break any social constructs from work culture to academic culture, to the education system, gender roles, heteronormativity, Japan's xenophobia and asssimulation culture. Hell the game doesn't touch on minorities at all. But I'm off topic back to end game. They really could have done more with yaldy which is yeah what royal does and Maruki feels like such a more satisfying antagonist because of the build up, personal connection, and personal stakes. In terms of arcana Judgement is gaining knowledge of one's self granting the power of judgement. But World is full circle it is a full understanding of ones place in the universe and the self actualization that comes with it. This is why p3's protag is the Universe/World arcana. And p5 base game doesn't really get there while royal gives it that little bit of closure.

Original comment and replies: https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/1ckatgy/comment/l2m9ln5/

[webbedphantom]

So I wanna talk about this guy-

Meta Spider is one of the coolest concepts I've ever come up with, somewhat inspired by AUs where Joker or someone else gets Yaldy's power, as well as a very long and very epic fanfic where Yaldy possesses all the Thieves except Joker and tries to resume his plans. (I'd share what the fic was, but I can't remember what it was called sadly, which sucks because I never finished it-)

The idea here was also somewhat inspired by the beginning of NWH, where I was considering the idea of Aaron's identity being revealed, but the issue was that I didn't know how to walk that back tastefully. Keep in mind, NWH released before I'd started writing here, and Twitter doesn't exactly do the concept of verses.

The solution I came up with was simple, a deal with the devil. Which if you're at all familiar with Spider-Man comics, sounds really bad, but I promise this is better than that dumpster fire.

After Aaron begins to stress over how much his life is ruined, and how it has put all his friends in danger, Yaldabaoth appears with a deal. He will manipulate the minds of the masses to forget who Phantom Spider is, though he won't be able to do so for anyone with a Persona or anything similar, meaning the team, Akechi, Shido, and a few others would still remember. And the only thing he asks is to borrow Aaron's body for 24 hours, and more importantly, his innate connection to the Metaverse.

He doesn't agree easily, and he makes sure there are rules a limitations on what Yaldy can do during those 24 hours. Obviously, he's trying to fuse the worlds together, but do that in Aaron's body will require him to get his hands dirty, so he only agrees on a few conditions.

He cannot kill anyone

He cannot harm his friends

He will give Aaron a year to prepare. Not much point in reverting the status quo if he doesn't have time to enjoy it.

Yaldabaoth agrees to not harm his allies, as long as they don't get in his way. If they do, they're fair game, though he still cannot kill them. As for the year to prepare, Yaldabaoth will only agree to a month to get his things in order. He knows if he gives Aaron too long, he's likely to devise away to limit him even further.

Aaron reluctantly accepts.

He doesn't feel he has a choice. His identity being out puts everyone around him at risk. If he ever wants to be in their lives again, if he wants to keep them safe, he has to take this deal.

But he doesn't keep it a secret from them. As soon as the deal is made, he goes and he tells them about it. Obviously, they aren't particularly happy about this, but they understand why he agreed.

So they prepare. They all mark the day of the takeover on their calendars, and they gear up. They don't have to beat him, they just need to stall him.

Now the exact events of what happens during those 24 hours, I've never come up with. Mostly because since this was going to be an event, I was going to leave the details up to whoever I was writing with. But it's a really interesting idea, that I'd love to write sometime!

What I will say is that this would be a really tough fight. Once he knows the Thieves are trying to stop him, he isn't going to hold back much, he will hit them with everything he has as long as he knows they can take it. Aaron won't be able to resist his control, all he can do is nudge things a little to make sure he abides by the terms of the deal. And the only way he can get control back early is if Yaldabaoth breaks his word, which would involve either killing someone or harming one of Aaron's confidants who never got in his way, which aren't exactly ideal.

Last thing I'll say is while I don't have the specifics of the event laid out, I do know what happens if they succeed. Aaron gets his body back, and proceeds to pass the heck out for a few days. But when he wakes, he starts looking into those abilities Yaldabaoth used, to see if he can actually just... do that.

What are those abilities? Don't worry, I've got a post in the works that will explain exactly how powerful Aaron can be. (As well as explain why a lot of those powers won't be seen in a majority of his verses)

[toastermin-it]

Joker tryin to keep his head down ‘cuz he knows that as a wild card Yaldy would be specifically looking for him is amazing also that explains so much about why the other Persona protags and their confidants seem to know nothing of what was going on in Tokyo in the base game when it’s canon that they all exist in the same universe and keep track of that sort of thing

yeha, it's a perfect addition.

yaldabaoth, i imagine, has such a tight grip on society and the cognition of the masses that he has little room in its plan for, in his words, "unpredictability." the wild cards are powerful, and yaldy sees that as both an asset and a liability. they can see through its lies. they have the will and the power to pull humanity out of the rubble and into a better future. they have the power to fight, and kill, gods. the beings that are said to be immortal. if yaldabaoth knows that, then obviously it would try to look for and control them. i personally believe that the power of a wildcard is one that any god would fear.

now, i give you this. knowing that the persona games take place in the same universe, and are tightly linked (as seen in many ways, like persona 1 characters being included in the 2 duology, trish's who's who in persona 3, the cameos on tv in persona 5, the arena games, and so on, so forth). in persona 5, only the persona users and the confidants remember when mementos and reality fused into one. minus the fact that most of the locations are fictional, they are still based on cities of regular areas in japan. so why hadn't news of the other incidents, such as the inaba murders and the fog, spread to tokyo? i don't think that in P4G, people in okina city knew or cared about the events in inaba. i understand that maybe the police want to keep incidents like these confidential, but they forget how fast rumors spead. one of the persona 2 duology's main mechanics was rumors and spreading ones that would prove advantageous to the player and their party. in strikers (trying to be as spoiler-free as possible) the phantom thieves were well known in many well-populated cities in japan, mainly for being falsely accused of manipulation, just as in the base game and royal.

but think about it. in all of the persona games, you either are god, fight god, become god, become something to fight god, or a combination of them. there is a malevolent deity or godlike being in every game. nyarlthotep. nyx. friggin izanami. the ark, if we're being technical.

if you want to go into spinoffs, there's what i believe to be cronos, enlil, (i desperately want to say nyarly had a role in arena),and more.

atlus can't try to tell me that the gods just want to bully humanity that much and that this is a coincidence. the gods, i believe, planned some kind of co-op, and then went off to do stuff on their own, causing them to be felled by each a band of persona-users. there have been too many bets and too many weird glowing butterflies flying around for any of this to be coincidence.

i think that au would make a perfect dystopian story, in which akira and his team fight against yaldy and its 'perfect' society not just to save humanity, but themselves and those close to them.

[deareststars]

Could you make some headcanons on Ms. Sakamoto and Ryuji introducing her to the PT?

mama sakamoto is one of my favorite characters and we never even get to see her in-game. i hate atlus for that! anyway, thank you for requesting hahaha, i hope you enjoy! cheers <3

(for reference, mama sakamoto’s name in this is going to be hana sakamoto!)

((continued under the cut))

- we already know that hana is like, an absolute angel of a mother, so i think that extends to other facets of her life. she bakes cookies for elderly neighbors, gives kids lemonade on summer days, and volunteers at a nearby primary school as a teacher aide! all the kids know her as “ms hana” and absolutely adore her to death.

- i headcanon her to work two or three jobs. since she and ryuji are (presumably) living paycheck to paycheck, i don’t think she had the time to get an education past her GDE. she works as a florist and a receptionist at a friend’s company—not enough to afford extravagant gifts, but enough to treat ryuji every month or so.

- in regards to ryuji (actually, with most people in general), she probably doesn’t like talking about her problems. she’s selfless and empathetic to a fault. this ends up in her burning out a lot, and it isn’t until ryuji talks to her about it that she begins to work on improving that aspect of herself.

- actually, i think that coming out of an abusive relationship means that she definitely holds a lot of cards close to her chest. there are things that no one knows, not even ryuji. except for her ex-husband, but we don’t talk about him.

- for a more light-hearted headcanon, hana is probably a jack-of-all-trades, kind of like a less OP joker. when she was in school, her grades were all good enough that people knew her as “one of those smart girls.” she was also fairly athletic and creative. she was open to a lot of people, which led to some taking advantage of her…maybe that’s what led her into such a shitty relationship.

i think ryuji actually got his love of track from his mom! she probably did it in high school, and runs in her free time. ryuji joined her one day, and he was absolutely hooked.

- hana dyed ryuji’s hair. no questions asked.

- ryuji also gets his way of speaking from his mom. no questions asked there, either.

- now, for meeting the phantom thieves!

- ryuji waits until after everything was said and done (re: after their fight against shido) to introduce hana to the others. she knows bits and pieces about his phantom thievery, but only that ryuji and his friends are behind the changes of heart.

- hana’s absolutely shocked to find out that not only are all the phantom thieves teenagers, but that cute girl from ryuji’s junior high class and the boy that ryuji had brought home one day to play video games are also part of it!

she probably felt a little guilt, too. she’s an adult, and these kids are doing things to fix the society that her generation effed up. actually, these kids are doing things that her generation in general was never able to do.

but she covers it up by teasing ryuji about having such attractive friends. she asks him if he likes any of them, and no one was prepared for ryuji’s face to burst into flames.

- after introductions, hana becomes something like a sojiro to the group. not anything major (there’s only so much she can do as a single, working mother), but she offers them moral support!

- the thieves are enamored with ryuji’s mom. she becomes the group’s surrogate mother, and although ryuji pretends to be annoyed (ann and futaba tease him about being such a mama’s boy), he’s really happy for hana.

he told joker one day that he never saw her smile as wide as when futaba accidentally called her “mom.” joker made sure to call hana “mom” every day after that. sure enough, hana almost never stopped glowing.

- when the phantom thieves end up having to fight yaldy, hana is at the front of the crowd, cheering her kids on.

“you kids are fixin’ the society that we never could! i believe in you!”

- since hana knows the phantom thieves, when maruki’s reality comes about in january, she knows something is wrong. maruki tries to bring her husband back as a good man and a better family man, but hana never wanted him back.

“i have all the sunshine i need right here.”

- after the phantom thieves disband (she almost has a heart attack when summer hits and ryuji tells her that they got back together again), she still keeps up with all of them. the kids often visit ryuji at their apartment, and she makes sure to spend a few hours at home to make them some food and chat!

- the main reason why hana is so happy about the phantom thieves is because ryuji hasn’t been that happy since kamoshida broke his leg. her source of happiness has always been his. she loves that boy to death.

[charlietheepicwriter7]

I can’t help but think about your little thing titled The Kingdom of Heaven is Rife with Poor Intentions.

Who would win? The enemy that wants to destroy humanity? The enemy that wants to save humanity? Neither?

In this AU, "gods" (maruki, yaldy) can't mess with another gods territory, so Maruki can't, say, save Makoto (p3) from being door-kun. But his disappearance/death has caused all his friends pain, so Maruki just... erases Makoto from the memories of the p3 crew. So Akira is the only one to remember Makoto and keep one of his bonds. So the door holding back Nyx is really weak.

And since Tarturus is Nyx territory, Maruki can't mess with it or anything inside (not that he isn't trying to). So if the Phantom thieves, following their crazed leader across the country, followed him in, they might get their memories back.

Igor and Lavenza would probably fill in the PTs about Nyx and help them.

Akira and the PTs get to the top close to the same time, right when Maruki physically shows up to get everyone out of Taturus (Maruki has no idea what's going on). Akira frees Nyx, but there's enough time for Akira to have a heart to heart with his brother so he realizes that this is probably a bad idea. So Akira and Makoto p3 rejoin the Pts to fight two gods.

Akechi has been extremely pissed since recovering his memory and just wants to kill maruki, i feel like this is important for you to know.

Maruki and Nyx fight while the Pts try to stop both. Yaldy is revealed to have possessed Maruki and throws him to the side. The PTs lock Nyx in her old prison and throw Yaldy in after her.

Makoto p3 tells Akira he's proud of him before becoming door-kun again. Akira cries like a baby.

[unidentified-owl]

Rambling

Apropos of nothing, but I hate almost the entirety of the interrogation room subplot.  It tears open so many plot holes just to try and set up a mystery for the player on who the traitor is.  We all know who the traitor is.  He's been stalking us in our home for months and probably making snide remarks about our coffee to Sojiro.  But this isn't about him.  

One thing that just endlessly baffles me about this portion are the like 50 police who are at Sae's casino. And it isn't just police.  They have vehicles with them, spotlights, and apparently working communication devices.  There are helicopters shown flying in during the opening cutscene.  

Just how did these police enter?  I can presume Akechi brought them in with the Nav, but how many could he bring in at a time? How were large vehicles grabbed?  The thieves frequently activate their Navs in crowded areas without pulling in NPCs.  We assume at least some of that is due to Yaldy's influence, but could the thieves just drag anyone and anything into the metaverse if they tried hard enough? Could the thieves be driving in Mementos with an actual car?  Could they have grabbed a subway train and just rode the tracks directly into the depths?

When did Akechi bring all these people in?  It had to be before the infiltration began, but are they all just hiding in the police department building across from Sae's casino all day?  Did Shido and crew gamble that neither Morgana nor Futaba would sense that many extra people?  Or notice when they started to set up a barracade outside?  Did they not expect Sae's palace to take note of them? Because Joker is in his metaverse costume when he is apprehended by the police and the palace is on high alert. The police should be in range for shadows to care about their presence.  How are the police communication devices still working in the metaverse?  We know satellite phones are out of service, but are there radio signals?

Most importantly: How were they expected to leave?  Akechi was with the phantom thieves fleeing the palace as it theoretically collapsed from having its treasure removed.  Do all these police officers just supposedly have the Nav now?  What was the plan to actually extract Joker and the police?  Do palaces from a shut down not collapse? Because Akechi was never shown to be surprised that Okumura's palace was even before he shot him.  Do Shido's group know that you can survive a collapsing palace?  Did Akechi just not tell them it collapses because he thought it would be hilarious if 50 of his coworkers were killed off?

Did anyone wander off for a smoke break and get left behind?  Was there a buddy system for tracking all these people?  Were none of them freaking out about the courthouse being replaced by a casino?  Did no one go home to family or friends, shell shocked from learning about a whole other world?  They may be corrupt cops, but they still can't be expected to all be high enough in the conspiracy to actually know anything about its workings.  These people are on the outer layers of the cult onion and are not privy to the xenu levels of crazy at its core.  If the police have the Nav, did none of them just check the device just to confirm that they really saw that? No one cared that this palace, which was supposed to be gone, was still standing?  

We know that people forget the ending fight with Yaldy where the metaverse and reality were combined, but do these people still recall an intense hallucination of attacking a goth phase teenager outside a casino downtown?  The opening cut scene is nice, but I have so many questions now.

[floaties-for-arsene]

Do you ship your possessed Maruki with your demon Zenkichi?

Oh! I think you’re talking about @leelreallylikespersona’s Yaldabaoth possessed maruki! Which is a completely separate (and fucking incredible) au from my demon zen au but since I like making them interact..

Kind of? Since Yaldabaoth is acting like Maruki enough for the phantom thieves to believe it’s actually him (and since I’m a massive hasemaru shipper), Zenkichi would absolutely flirt with him. But since it’s Yaldabaoth the whole time, he would be absolutely pissed. He does not like it one fucking bit. So one day he just kinda snaps, and scares the shit out of poor Zen..like, he’s too embarrassed about how miserably he failed to flirt with “maruki” to tell anyone else, so Yaldy-Maruki just kinda gets away with breaking character really bad. And as for my demon zen in particular, we have the running joke that Yaldy-Maruki regularly pulls on his tail and bullies him and shit..but he can’t do anything about it because any time he lashes out, all the rest of the phantom thieves see is big scary demon man being mean to poor old Maruki...so yeah. Yaldabaoth is an asshole. They have a complicated relationship at best...

The Yaldabaoth possessed Maruki isn’t my au but..if maruki ever got back to normal he’d feel fucking horrible about all the shit Yaldy put him through. And Leel you can fight me on this but hasemaru supremacy 😤

Just to be clear, these are all my silly little speculations, some of which I’ve joked around with her about before! In actuality these aus are completely separate, but I find it super fun to make them interact because of dumb stuff like this hgeghsjs

[muzzleroars]

In reference to the one where Akira just snaps and goes against yaldi made me wonder if he wouldn’t develop a split personality one is akira yaldiboath creation and slave the other joker with his heart and senses returned to him and who becomes the embodiment of rebellion and have the two sides constantly bicker and argue with each other over even small things like what to eat and what movie to see to more serious things like killing there creator/warden and who’s the real Akira

oooh an interesting concept....especially since i have considered how bad end akira and canon akira would interact with each other. BUT this is the like the extreme end of canon akira, all of his anger and rebellion condensed into joker while all the broken and traumatized parts of himself are retained in akira...and BOY would they hate each other. i see this joker as like. the infallible leader of the phantom thieves, the one that never lets himself break and takes on all the burden of responsibility without complaint, while akira has been left so decimated by all the trauma he incurred over the course of the year (which accelerated drastically in the last couple months) that he was a shell of himself even before yaldabaoth stole his heart from him. bad end akira still has the same tireless work ethic, the same drive to be of use and to work toward reform, but his priorities have shifted so much - reform means helping people accept yaldabaoth and he can’t be alone, he can’t be the one to make all of his decisions anymore. i find akira interesting in the sense that i think of him as someone that needs control and autonomy in his life, like he HAS to make all of his own decisions and he is one of those people that won’t ever do something someone else tells him to do if he can help it...but at the same time, he burns himself out on it because he takes on loads of responsibility for others. and those others come to expect it of him, so they keep leaning on him and he keeps allowing it, needing to have control in his life, needing to help, needing to be needed. and subconsciously, that’s exhausting...he can’t keep it up, it’s destroying him little by little to be sixteen and taking on responsibility for other kids and even adults - their very happiness and even their LIVES depending on his next piece of advice or move. he’s taxed to his wit’s end by the time the bad end rolls around, and i think that’s one of the saddest parts - that akira leans on yaldabaoth, asks him to take responsibility, to parent him and make those decisions for him because it’s always, always been on him this entire year that he’s already incredibly vulnerable in. the thing is, the public in p5 want to be cared for, to have the burden of responsibility lifted from them, and that’s the point akira has reached BECAUSE of all the people around him that counted on him to an unhealthy extent (side bar: i in NO WAY blame the thieves and i don’t believe at all that they never appreciated what akira did and they truly, deeply loved him...but they’re traumatized kids too, and akira offered what seemed like such a strong shoulder to cry on that they couldn’t resist doing so even to akira’s detriment. but he hid that from them, and they had no IDEA he was doing this for literally every single person he met...the adults on the other hand?? they should feel bad for putting all this on an already traumatized sixteen year old lmfao). akira has to tap out, he’s not like yaldabaoth who is a being MEANT to take responsibility for everyone...and really, at that point, akira feels he’s the only one that could take responsibility for him because of that. this is the whole purpose of his creation, so akira can allow it and can let himself let go, but that destroys him because it’s a core part of who he is.

SO THAT WAS A BIG TANGENT, but it’s all to say that akira would fight back against joker because he CAN’T be that person again - he wants someone to care for him after all his hard work while joker is repulsed by the very idea of anyone else directing his actions. yaldabaoth needs to be destroyed, but akira doesn’t want his one parental figure ripped away from him and be back to making so many hard, even life or death decisions. it goes deeper than just truly believing in yaldabaoth’s words now and believing him to be a god - it’s about akira’s own survival and having someone that will finally take care of him (no matter how poorly it may be). but being able to do those decisions and live freely, even if it’s hard, is what joker fights for, what he believes is right and an essential part of himself no matter how difficult it may be. it’s who is and one of the reasons why bad end akira is so unwell - he needs that part of himself but he gave it up because he was so broken. so it’s really two parts that are totally at odds with each other fighting for what they need the most - akira needs to be cared for, joker need to be free, and he needs to let others be free too. joker can’t bear being hurt, being taken from and controlled, but akira feels a need to accept it in order to do what he needs to survive....VERY inch resting 🤔

[akechi-stole-my-heart]

I find the idea of the Phantom Thieves fighting a new version of Yaldabaoth on every one of their vacations together to be hilarious. Yaldy is like "you've fought me 5 times in the last 2 years just give up already" and the Thieves shout back "WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP THATS OUR WHOLE FUCKING THING"

[ace-pancake-detective]

What's bonking? Found the posts about your Wildcard! Ryuji AU earlier today and it. Is. AMAZING!! Trickster Ryuji is an stupidly underused concept (which makes 0 sense since he basically helped kickstart the plot to begin with) so I'm glad to see you and your friend giving it so much love. Since this is still an ask here are my questions. Is Ryuji's ult. Persona still Seiten Taisei and if not, why? What do you see his new thief as?

Omg thanks!

And honestly, the reason this idea came to mind is cuz my dumbass @effin-silver-skulls is Ryuji mad. Making an AU centered around him would've just been so fun, so I thought: "Why not make him the protag?"

His attitude towards others is so different from the actual protagonist, that everything would be so wack. If he's the one that gets shot near the end, he wouldn't be able to stop bragging, and I just thought that'd be funny as hell.

As for his ult persona, I'm not entirely sure. On one hand, his cannon one is absolutely badass, but it'd be so much better to have him reveal a massive one, just like Joker did in the fight with old Yaldy-boi.

Another thing: Ryuji trying to intimidate every shadow, being too dumb to remember personality types and strategies. Imagine how overpowered every persona would be, cus of his 'lets do this no matter what!' attitude!

Honestly, seeing Ryuji's devlopment from a vulgar loner to an actual dependable protagonist could be the main reason people begin believing in the phantom thieves.

Does make me wonder whether he'd end up taking the deal for the bad end, though...