#So what if Qrow died instead of clover

[akaifujiruma15]

This audio was trending on tik tok so I made a RWBY version of the trend and the au was inspired by @lieu-rey

[oddlyhale]

Tough Luck brainrot rewrite of V7-V8:

Winter had been so worried about becoming the next Winter Maiden that she felt unsure of how to talk about her worries. Clover had always been there to hear her out.

Like Ironwood, Winter sometimes lets herself silently spiral too much into worrying about the big and little things. Clover was always there to bring her back to not think so hard and to trust that the others have everything on their ends figured out, that she shouldn't try to micromanage everything.

Winter is the one that highly suggests that Team RWBY+JNR go out to train with the Ace Ops. She speaks highly of them, especially of Clover. Weiss jokingly suggests Winter may have a crush, which Winter bashfully denies.

Clover, though, does admit to Qrow that he really does like Winter, so this entire process of her becoming the next maiden has quietly worried him. He doesn't want her to become the newest target for Cinder and Salem. Qrow, while not always being the best at advice, gives some of what he knows, learning from his own past mistakes. To be honest, something he wishes he was with Summer.

Winter and Clover are getting closer throughout V7. They have a moment alone where it seems like Clover is ready to commit himself to her, when suddenly, Cinder and co. attack. They have to separate to deal with the different villains.

Clover gets killed by Tyrian and Qrow's poor decision-making. Winter is attacked by Cinder. She is radioed by the Ace Ops that have arrested Qrow and Robyn, as well as Watts and Jacques. That is where she learns that Clover is dead. She knows Qrow was with Clover last, so she decides to ask him what exactly happened.

This doesn't exactly go well. Winter is distraught by the news that the person she romantically loved is dead and she never got a chance to tell him how much she loved him.

Clover's body is not on the other side of the hall from Winter's hospital room (that's fucking weird that it was set up like that in the first place.) Instead, after Winter is done recovering, she goes to see him in the morgue. She makes a promise to Clover that she will get the person that killed him.

Harriet, knowing Winter loved Clover deep down, gives her his lucky pin.

Winter learns how Clover died, though not through Qrow. Robyn tells her because Qrow was far too ashamed to admit what happened. Winter's feelings towards Qrow had soured greatly to the point where she says she would rather leave him with Jacques to rot than help him. While the anger was impulsive, Winter leaves without apologizing.

While fighting Ironwood, Winter feels stung by the situation. She saw Penny in the white void, knowing that she has died. Now, she needs to fight the man that she looked up to as a second father. Instead of blasting him with her new maiden powers, she tries to make him listen to reason, but to no avail. Instead, she leaves, easily avoiding the canon blasts with her new agility. She doesn't know what to do at that point.

At the end of V8, when Winter becomes the next maiden, she is once against struck with grief that she couldn't save Weiss from falling. She keeps losing the people she loves so fast that it makes her feel horrible that she isn't fast or strong enough for them. She still helps get the survivors out to Vacuo's desert, but she still cries silently about the four losses in such a short amount of time.

The whole time during V8, Winter could be seen wearing the lucky pin on her lapel.

[jadekitty777]

The Emotionalist: Chapter 3

I’ma be honest, I just found out that copying and pasting to tumblr is not saving my bold and italics. I’m too lazy to fix it, so uh, I recommend reading these chapters on A03 lol Particularly this one which is text heavy.

Prompt for Day 4: Sick

Rating: T

Word Count: 5K

Summary: Clover Ebi was a huntsman who, like most Atlesian soldiers, hid most of his emotions behind a mask of calm professionalism. That is, unless, one knew where to look. And Qrow looked a lot.

Or, 5 times Qrow learned to read Clover’s mood not from his face, but from his ears. [An adjacent story to Hunting Season Hunting Season; events from Qrow’s POV]

Ao3 Link: Burning like the Sun

~

Did you get the day off too?

Qrow leaned against the wall beside the Aceops office, left leg propped on the wall behind him and beating a staccato rhythm while he tapped a message back to his eldest niece. Yeah. Ol’ Jimmy has a heart after all. Got plans?

FNKI invited us out to a club. She replied. Rubes and Weiss aren’t interested but Blake and I are going. 

He arched an eyebrow, snorting. Try not to blow this one up firecracker. 🔥🔥🔥🔥

IT WAS ONE TIME! 

He could practically imagine the way Yang was fuming. 

Another ping only moments later, Anyways, what are you gonna do?

Things. He thumbed out, eyes drifting down the hall. Still empty.

He didn’t look away until another ping chimed for his attention.

…Responsible things?

He started to type out one of his typical answers, something that fit the blasé and uncaring attitude he often pulled with his niece. He had a dozen he used on any occasion, but some of his favorites were ‘Responsible people don’t have fun’ or ‘Ain’t my style’.

Then he paused and wondered at the ellipses his brash and impulsive niece never used in her texting and wondered if this question was more serious than he was used to.

He didn’t have to think hard to figure out why it was there.

Swallowing guilt, he told her a half-truth instead of an uncaring dismissal. If you must know, I have a date.

That certainly started some sort of implosion, as he saw his niece start and stop typing for several moments. 

Then, nothing except a big long pause.

Qrow realized he should be worried when a reply finally came in a burst of yellow text drawing itself along his screen:

Congratulations Old Man!

His shoulders shook to contain his laughter. I think my eyeballs just exploded. Then, with a huff, added, And don’t call me old.

You’ll survive. She quipped right back. After firing off a few annoying emojis his way, she finally said, Figured something was going on between you and Mr. Prince of the Forest.

Any amusement he had left died in his throat. 

Blood burning, he typed back aggressively, Don’t call him that Yang. Ever. That shit’s not okay.

Why are you suddenly mad at me??? Even through text, he could hear her indignation. 

He started to type rapidly, not even double-thinking his harshness  - Gods, she liked Blake for maiden’s sake! - but before he could even finish, her next reply stopped him cold.

That's what you called him!

No I didn’t, He defended back immediately. Sure he didn’t used to be the most sensitive about Faunus discrimination. There were definitely things he’d said or did in his youth that he wasn’t proud of, with his jeering tribemates egging him on. And because he was an idiot so desperate for approval, he hurt a lot of people who never deserved it - but that was a long time ago, and he’d grown up a lot since he’d left his old life behind and better people opened his eyes.

But, his niece was swiftly proving that false, pings coming back quick and short,

Um yeah. You did.

Like two days after the whole arrest bs

During breakfast

I mean you were kinda rough but 

Yeah

As the words drilled into his skull, they reached into his brain, pulling out a foggy memory. 

He hadn’t been… great when he first stopped drinking. Better than most, aura was a blessing sometimes, but he knew detoxing threw him for a loop. It was why he often preferred not to.

But with James not willing to put them onto the field until they at least settled in and the kids got their weapons fixed up - not even him - it had left Qrow with little to do but ride the waves of sicknesses and nausea.

Still, he had made an effort to join the kids for breakfast, even if he couldn’t stomach it. It was important they knew - well, that Yang and Ruby knew - that he was still trying.

Those first few days were always the worst though, leaving him sweaty and shaky and just all around in a piss-poor mood. That day in particular, he recalled having just come off from one of the worst sleeps of his life. First at the table but slumped over it and clutching his cup of undrinkable coffee like a lifeline.

Yet Ruby joined him as if it was just another Tuesday. 

And the small exchange he’d completely forgotten about surfaced like an oil spill on the ocean, black and poisonous:

“Hey, hey Uncle Qrow!” Ruby said enthusiastically, “Penny told us that when we get our weapons back, the Aceops want to take us all out on a mission together. Doesn’t that sound great?”

He scoffed, saying loud enough he knew every single person heard every single last one of his damn words, “Oh great, can’t wait for a prance through the frozen wastelands with Mr. Prince of the Forest and all his little woodland friends.”

He couldn’t recall exactly how anyone responded beyond a few uncomfortable laughs before the subject was quickly changed. 

He especially didn’t know what Blake’s had been - he had never looked up.

“Fuck.” He hissed to himself, smacking his head back on the wall. 

He… owed her an apology.

But first he had to fix something else. 

He forced his eyes back onto his scroll, his turn to rapidfire back replies.

Well I shouldn’t have.

If I ever say anything like that again, about ANY Faunus, punch me in the face. 

As hard as you can. 

I want to go through the WALL.

Got it?

He watched the little drawing quill dance as his niece started to reply but never let her get there as he asked, Why are you repeating me anyways? 

The quill didn’t come back.

His scroll went dark, then black.

“Qrow?”

He jumped, almost dropping the device. Looked up and around, to see Clover standing just a few paces away, eyebrow raised. His arms were relaxed at his sides, his own scroll held limp in his hand. But through the transparent display, he could see the polls newscast rolling, sound probably feeding directly into Clover’s communicator.

The sight of his ears, still in the near-permanent droop they’d fallen into since the start of the week, reminded Qrow why he was here.

“H-Hey!” He straightened up, corner of his lip pulling up in a half-smile. “Fancy seeing you here.”

Clover’s eyebrow only hiked higher, looking past him briefly. “At my own office?”

“Uh.” He articulated gracefully. “Yeah well. Figured you’d have the night off like everyone else.”

“I do.” Was the even reply, playfulness starting to glimmer in Clover’s eye. “Which only further doesn’t explain why you’re here though.”

Damn. 

Qrow cleared his throat, trying to save himself by appealing to the clever idiot, “Lucky guess?”

Clover’s ears twitched, raising just a smidge, mimicking the slow smile gracing his handsome face. “Is that so?”

“Of course.” He jutted out a hip, placing a hand on it. “Come on, don’t act like you’re not happy to see me Clubs.”

The slow roll of the other’s eyes on him was heated and absolutely deliberate. “I’m always happy to see you.” The husky promise sent a thrill through him. 

Yet, as fast as the flame was lit, it suddenly burnt out as something Qrow didn’t hear made Clover look down at his scroll, holding it tight enough he was surprised it didn’t break.

His ears had fallen once more.

“Anyways, I was just here to send off a few files Winter requested before I headed to the polls.” Clover’s tone was that clipped professionalism he usually reserved for the field as he walked past, opening up the door. “Did you need something?”

The change of pace took out some of his bluster, but he carried on as he trailed in after the other. “Well, I haven’t had a chance to see the sights lately. Was thinking you could give me a grand tour. Saaaay over dinner? Your choice, my treat?”

The other paused, hand hovering over the power button to his computer as he stared back at Qrow. “Not sure I’ve heard of a lot of tours that happen stationary in a restaurant.” The playfulness was back.

“Clover.” Qrow santured over, hopping onto the corner of his desk. “Come on already. We can even go to your favorite.”

This time he actually chuckled, finally booting up his computer. “I’m afraid my favorite place isn’t really your scene.” Clover glanced at him meaningfully. “Or your crowd.”

He’d guessed as much. 

It said a lot about the soldier and the way he’d been treated over the years that he so quickly was willing to shelter Qrow from experiencing his own culture. He didn’t think it had to do with a lack of pride, but rather a lack of agency in his own position. A Faunus holding such a high rank in the military, being James’ literal right hand, should be something to simply praise for the accomplishment itself. A sign of times truly changing.

But it was obvious from people like Robyn or Jacques, who would so easily use that stance against him, that all Clover could do instead was constantly mock an image of perfection and pureness to the world so that they couldn’t tear him and everything he stood for down.

He was so used to doing that, that it seemed to become almost second nature to hide anything that might come off as ‘troublesome’.

Unfortunately for him, Qrow wasn't really into all that rigamarole. He especially wasn’t when he wanted this to work so badly - the conversation they’d had two weeks ago about his insecurities over his semblance had only solidified that in his mind. What started out as just a bit of flirting and mutual attraction had turned into so much more. Clover was special and inspiring in a way he’d never met before, and he very much wanted to keep him in his life. 

“All I’m hearing is a bunch of excuses.” Qrow went in for the kill, leaning over the desk and dragging a hand through his own hair, disheveling it purposely as he put on his best smirk. “Come on Clover, take me out for a night on the town.”

Hook, line and sinker. Clover’s breath caught, eyes darting between his eyes and his lips, giving in with a simple, “I suppose dinner does sound nice. How ‘bout you meet me at the helipad docks at 6?”

Yes! Qrow did a mental victory dance, slipping off the desk. “You got it Clubs. I’ve got a few things to take care of, but I’ll see you then~”

“Yeah. I’ll be there.” Clover’s bright smile and raised ears was the last thing Qrow saw before the door closed. 

He started down the hall, already looking up locations for a good clothing and cologne store when his phone pinged.

A message from Yang.

He paused, the conversation from before Clover’s arrival coming back in a rush.

Reluctantly,  he tapped over to read it.

I dunno. I guess ‘cause you said it, I thought it was okay.

A hard knot of shame bunched in his stomach as the implications of that fully hit him.

“Shit.”

-

Six o’ clock on the dot, Clover walked into the station. 

Qrow took a mournful moment to admire him. Despite neither of them saying a word, it seemed they’d come to the universal agreement that this was a date.

Clover had dressed down for the occasion, and though he already missed the sleeveless vest, Clover filled out the dark green turtleneck rather prettily. His pants were black and framed shapely thighs. Kingfisher was still hitched to his hip and the leather belt it was attached to had a buckle with a shamrock printed on.

And, of course, completely for Qrow’s benefit, he wore a single chain drop earring in the tip of his right ear, a set of silver feathers that hung at the bottom tinging together anytime he moved.

As he drew close, Qrow could smell the cologne he wore. 

“Hey.” Clover breathed, eyes rolling over him shamelessly. “You look great.”

He glanced down, almost forgetting himself. He’d kept it simple, going for a pair of charcoal gray pants and matching it with a black dress shirt that had a red and white floral design on the inside of his collar and the rolls of the sleeves. He’d dug out his old necklace, the little cross settled over his heart.

But where he’d really gone all out was his nails - colored with a polish so dark blue it was almost black, with little silver confetti stars pressed over top with a clear coat. They caught the light nicely, little constellations twinkling along his hands.

The question on why he bothered with the effort still escaped him when he was about to ruin everything.

“Not as good as you, Clubs.” He tried anyways, even though his heart wasn’t in it.

Clover picked up on it immediately, one ear raising up like an exclamation as he asked, “You alright? If you’re having second thoughts-”

“No.” He cut him off quickly, not wanting Clover to think for a second it was about that. “But you might in a minute. I just… need to come clean about something.”

“Okay?” 

Clover only seemed further confused as Qrow handed over his scroll. “Read it. Next page too.” He mumbled.

They were just screenshots of the tail end of his conversation with Yang, starting from the damning slur to her last words to him.

Clover was quiet as he read it, eyebrows twisting down somewhat as he swiped to the next picture. Swiped back and read it again. Neither his face nor his ears were giving anything away, as if he was completely frozen.

Qrow felt his anxiety fester the longer he just stood there, staring at it. Eventually it grew to be too much, and he blurted out, “I’m really sorry.” 

Clover looked up at him.

On instinct, he looked away, then forced his eyes back. Look at him damnit! 

“I-I know that doesn’t make up for it. But you had the right to know.” He explained hastily and then he waited for whatever punishment was coming.

He mostly expected a punch to the face.

What he wasn’t expecting was for Clover to just blink and hand back his scroll with a calm, “That’s it?”

Excuse him - WHAT?!

His shock must have been evident, because the other man continued, “Qrow you’re not the first person to relegate me to deer-focused idioms.”

“Doesn’t mean I shoulda fucking said it.”

A sigh. “No, you shouldn’t have. But, and take this as nicely as you can - I’m not surprised that you’re kind of a total asshole to people you first meet.”

Qrow winced, but didn’t deny it. He could sweet talk like the best of them when he needed to, but on a general day-to-day? Especially with Atlas folk? Yeah, he wasn’t exactly Mr. Nice Guy.

Still…

“Clover, don’t make excuses for me.”

“I’m not.” He insisted, placing a hand on Qrow’s shoulder. “Look, listen to me, okay? I understand that you’re human and that you probably grew up with a lot of racists throughout your life. I’m not about to hold you up on a pedestal above everyone else. This stuff is complicated and more terrifyingly systematic than even I like to think about most days.” His fingers squeezed, just slightly. “But that’s not the important thing. You want to know what is?”

Qrow thought it over, shrugging a bit. “That I... was honest?”

“No. Well yes, but no. It’s that you understand it’s wrong and are willing to change it. Most people don’t give me that kind of respect.” He insisted, pulling back to rest his hand on his hip. “You know what happened when I told my last boyfriend I didn’t like him calling me ‘Fawny’? He got mad at me, asked why I was being ‘so uptight’ about it. And when I explained, he claimed I was just being dramatic.” Clover rolled his eyes, spitting out, “Fucking asshole.”

Even though it sounded truly awful, it was odd that he actually felt lighter at hearing that - but Clover tended to have that effect on him. Somehow, he always saw the best in him.

Well. Mostly.

“Didn’t you just call me an asshole, like, two sentences ago?” Qrow teased.

He waved him away. “Yeah but you’re like a general asshole, not a calculated one.”

“And that’s better?”

“Will you let me compliment you already?”

“That was a compliment?!” He mock-cried.

To his surprise, Clover burst out laughing.

It was a really nice sound, and he couldn’t help but join in. 

As it petered out, the two of them sharing smiles, Qrow admitted cautiously, “I’m really surprised you’re not mad at me.”

“Trust me Qrow. When I’m angry, you’ll know.” That promise sounded oddly terrifying. Before he could dwell too much on it, Clover pointed to his scroll. “But I think you’re not giving yourself enough credit - again. You know you never needed to tell me this, right? That you could have hid it forever, and I probably never would have found out.” He met his gaze, sincere and kind as he said, “The fact you did despite that says a lot more about the good in your character than I think you realize.”

Qrow’s eyes widened, a flush of warmth rushing through him. He might have been swooning. He was definitely blushing. “Clover…”

The soldier just seemed pleased with himself. Then a chime from the itinerary display went off, and his ear perked up before his eyes followed it. “Our flight’s ready.” He jabbed a thumb towards the loading station, giving him a wink. “What say we get outta here?”

Utterly enchanted, there really was only one answer to that. “Lead the way Clubs.”

-

The Dog Pan was a hole in the wall kind of place, right in the center of Mantle’s lower end district. It wasn’t quite the slums, but it was clear the side of town had seen better, with broken out windows and graffiti on most walls. 

Yet, the moment they walked in, he could immediately feel the closeness and community that seemed to radiate from the very core. The windows had top curtains with little leaping dogs weaved out of yarn and privacy blinds made of bed sheets with colorful designs. They matched well with the walls where, in place of traditional pictures, were long, flowing, multi-colored tapestries with beaded ends. One of them depicted the God of Animals, another the Shallow Sea and the island of Unitas it banked. It all looked hand-woven.

The place was also packed to the brim, some of the chairs shoved against tables not matching as if they had been brought in. There was music playing but he could barely hear it over conversation, which seemed unusually loud; yet despite any eared Faunus obviously pinning their ears down, there was still a kind of comradery in the laughter and noise.

“Wow. I figured it’d be nuts but not this crazy!” Clover's own ears had dropped but he was grinning. He glanced at him. “You still sure you’re good?”

Qrow snorted. He used to frequent rave bars at an alarming rate. This was nothing. “You’re gonna have to try harder if you want to scare me off Clubs!”

“Clover!” The shout had them both looking forward, a plump and jolly looking woman weaving her way around the tables towards them. She had a skin tone that reminded him of Marrow and black dog ears that flopped over on the top of her head. As she reached them, she was quick to pull Clover into a hug. “I wasn’t expecting you tonight! You haven’t been around in ages.”

“Good to see you Maxi.” He replied, hugging her back. 

She stepped back, zeroing in on Qrow, curious and welcoming. “And who is this handsome one?”

“This is Qrow, my new field partner.” Clover chuckled, patting his shoulder. 

Taking his cue, he held out a hand. “Nice to meet you.”

She shook it. “You as well darling. So, just you two then? I can’t get you a table, but I do have some room at the end of the bar.”

Clover shot him a questioning look.

He knew she meant a food bar, but it still settled like an itch on his skin. Shaking it off, he assured, “Works for me.”

“Lovely! Follow me.” 

They picked their way carefully through the restaurant to get towards the back, settling into circular seats that creaked and had tears in the leather. The counter was worn and he could see words and symbols carved into the softwood. Maxi took their drink orders and, with her so close to the kitchen, was back within moments with a soda and a pot.

“Gotta say,” She said to them as she poured Qrow’s coffee. “I’m disappointed you didn’t bring my son with you.”

Wait…

“‘Fraid we couldn’t. He’s working security tonight.” Clover explained.

Maxi sighed. “Remind that boy of mine it wouldn’t kill him to see his mother now and again, would you?”

He gave her a two-fingered salute. “Yes, ma’am.”

“You just call when you're ready, dears.” She said before departing to handle some of the other tables.

Qrow leant towards Clover. “So she’s…?”

“Yeah. Marrow’s mom. This is actually how I met him. Saw him stop a whole tray from falling out of his sister’s hands when she tripped.” Clover told him. “I asked him why he wasn’t in the academy, and he told me he was. He just spent all his free time here, bussing tables and cleaning dishes. I knew ever since then that if I ever got a spot on the team, I wanted him on it.”

How exactly a spot ‘opened up’ was left unsaid.

Qrow could probably guess anyways.

“He was a good choice. Kid’s got talent, just needs more steadiness.” He said instead. “So, you’re the only one with the night off?” He knew Elm, Harriet and Vine were all working security for Jacques’ campaign. They’d been specially requested, for obvious reasons. Likewise, Robyn had asked for whoever was left. 

“Perks of being Captain.” Clover joked. “And, James wanted Winter and I on standby.”

“For what?”

“For whatever happens once the polls close. Riots are uh, likely.” His eyes flicked to a TV set in the corner, and though it was inaudible, the picture of Jacques and Robyn on screen, the gap between their percentage ratings narrowing every minute, told them all they needed to know. “Among other things.”

Qrow kinda wanted to shoot it. “Y’know, I was trying to get you away from all that tonight.”

“Oh Qrow, I was always going to look. But,” He slid his hand across the table, the sides of their hands brushing. “At least I’ve got some good company to get me through it.”

Qrow hooked their pinkies together, a silent support.

“Come on, let’s order.”

-

Qrow had never seen a menu with so many post-it notes. The effect of the embargo was clear, as many foods had become too expensive or outright impossible to obtain - but anything with a cheaply grown vegetable, like corn or rice, or an easily obtained meat, like chicken which were bred plentifully or fish which was naturally fished and farmed out of the tundra, were still in supply.

In the end, he took Clover’s suggestion to try the smothered chicken legs.

Baked in gravy and coming with a side of cornbread and mashed potatoes, it was all sinfully good and filling.

He also managed to coax Clover to let him have a bite of his - the fried pike burst with flavor, likely attributed to its freshness. It came with a side of fries. Qrow stole a few of those too, mostly being cheeky about it.

Yet, as dinner carried on, the mood of the restaurant shifted. Conversations became hushed and subdued, a worry rippling through the people. No, a fear. If he strained to listen, he could catch snippets of conversation, whispers of what would happen to families stuck in the slums, of their children in the schools, of their jobs, their very way of living. Even Maxi seemed to hold her tray heavier with every pass, her smiles more strained. More people came in. Few left. It got so crowded, Qrow only had to lean back slightly to touch another person.

Try as he might to keep him distracted, Clover kept glancing at the TV. His ears were low enough, the feathers of his earring were resting against his shoulder.

As the last of the fries disappeared between them, Qrow asked softly, “You want to stay here?”

“‘Til it’s over.”

He nodded, and as their plates were gathered, asked for a refill. Sipped black coffee in one hand while the other slipped over damaged wood to touch Clover’s again. 

After a moment, Clover reached back, nudging under Qrow’s fingers so they slipped over top of his own.

The minutes ticked on. 

The percentages between Schnee and Hill grew smaller and smaller.

47-53.

48-52.

49-51.

At the final second, it hit 50-50.

The whole restaurant had gone dead silent as the polls disappeared, reporter Oliver Sikes taking over the screen. “And there we have it! The polls have officially closed and the final tallies are coming through now. Phew, what a close race. It’ll be just a minute now folks.” He rambled on for a bit more, detailing out the last districts that were decided on and the few they were still waiting on the exact counts from. But like all things in Atlas, his prediction was precise. 

As the sixty second ended, Sikes was announcing, “Oh and here we go, I’m being told the counting is done! And it looks like…”

The polls flashed back on screen.

57-43.

“Jacques has been announced the winner!”

The declaration was like pulling the pin off a grenade, a sudden, explosive roar starting up around them as the restaurant descended into chaos. 

The hand in his had tightened into a vice.

“What the fuck!” Qrow exclaimed. There was no fucking way, with a race that close, that Jacques pulled that much ahead. That meant some of the votes had been falsified. He jerked his head around, spitting, “Clover, that’s - Clover?”

Clover didn’t so much as respond to him, his wide eyes still staring at the screen where Jacques had started his victory speech. His face was completely motionless and impassive.

It was his ears that told Qrow the real story, as they had flipped back horizontally, the entire lengths of them trembling with barely withheld rage.

Just as soon as he’d seen it, it was gone when a furious outcry from the back had them both looking over their shoulders in time to see a man with moose antlers toss his chair. It hurtled its way across the restaurant and slammed right into the TV, shattering it on impact.

Had it been up to him, Qrow would have given the guy a medal.

Clover didn’t seem quite as praising, as he slammed his hands on the counter before climbing up onto it, shouting across to the crowd. “EVERYONE CALM DOWN!” He bellowed. “This is a Faunus-friendly establishment - a piece of our own community! What are you doing wrecking it?!” 

Some people heard it, others didn’t, still arguing and trying to trash the place. 

“No-No, please don’t!” Qrow heard Maxi cry just as one of her tapestries was pulled off the wall. Another person threw a plate on the floor. 

A window cracked.

Sensing things were about to get further dangerous, he hopped the counter while Clover continued to try and appeal to the growing mob. Just as Qrow had managed to usher the sobbing woman through the kitchen door where the rest of her family was, ordering, “Get out the back!” he heard someone’s scream pierce the air that had him whirling around in horror.

“Wait, aren’t you Clover Ebi!? You voted for Schnee! Traitor!”

“Traitor! Traitor!” The mob chanted.

It was like a wave as they surged towards Clover, grabbing at his legs and trying to pull him off the bar. He yelped, grabbing onto a light fixture. It yawned worryingly.

“HEY!” Heart hammering in his chest, Qrow lunged towards Clover, trying to pull him the other way, kicking some of other Faunus back. “Let him go!”

The light fixture snapped but Qrow had just enough leeway to yank him down on the other side of the bar. 

They backed up against the wall as the mob all started to round it and climb over.

He curled a hand around Harbinger’s hilt. Was he really going to have to…?

In the corner of his eye, he saw Clover desperately flick the feathers of his earring.

A second later, an unmistakable siren pierced the air.

Grimm.

Everyone froze.

Then some started to panic, rushing out the doors. Others flung themselves under tables or into the corners. 

Sharing a look, he and Clover moved, using the sudden space to leap onto the tables around the thinning crowd and make it to the exit.

They spilled into the street and started running. The first block was for safety. 

At the second, Clover finally managed to lift his shaking hand to his earpiece, “Marrow, report.”

Qrow grabbed his shoulder, pulling them both to a stop. He could feel the tremors leaking from Clover’s skin.

“Right. Roger. We’re on our way.” Clover dropped his hand to Kingfisher, taking a deep, steadying breath as he unfurled it. “Robyn’s party was attacked. A dozen people are dead and the grimm are flocking to it.”

Qrow gave him one last check over, just to make sure he was really okay, before he unsheathed Harbinger. “Let’s go.”

[deedeli-liveblog]

RWBY ReWatch Volume 7: PENNY!!! :D

Okay, so what do I remember from this Volume? PENNY!! She’s back. The Ace Ops were introduced here, Clover dies a stupid death, Robyn is here, Ironwood starts off crazy, calms down, and then completely loses his shit by then end.

Yeah, that’s about it. Broad strokes, but the finer details elude me. So let’s get started.

Oh, this was the volume they changed Qrow’s VA, ahklhdhka. It’s so noticeable.

This is the first Volume since 4 that the captions have functioned as they should.

They have such a large, colorful, conspicuous group now alkdhkjhfaksh.

qrow didn’t even need to punch those tigers but he did that for me

Oscar’s weapon is so funny, he is quite literally just aggressively poking things to death.

I’m that guy from ATLA that foams at the mouth and passes out, but for everytime Penny shows up.

Mmm, Clover’s introduction has him picking up the very weapon used to kill him later on. Nice touch.

Unlike the last two Volumes, I vividly remember the OP for this one. Mostly because I have the damn song on my phone, because I immediately fell in love with it. But also because that one image of Penny smiling that’s in the OP, because I love her.

Ironwood actually laughs a little bit when Ruby admits to stealing the airship.

Damn, I know Ironwood kinda falls off his rocker later, but RWBY and co., reaaaalllly made it worse. Like, he made a real, genuine effort to assuage their worries and make himself trustworthy. Opened himself up completely to them.If they were as upfront with Ironwood in the beginning as he was with them, maybe he wouldn’t have reacted so poorly.

Oh no, I forgot about Qrow and Ironwood’s hug. :c  That just makes it sadder that Qrow wants to kill Ironwood later..

I smile every time I see Tyrian, I can’t help it. 

I don’t think I had noticed before that Yang gets an actual gauntlet for her robot arm now, instead of using just built in guns.

We still don’t get to see Nora’s landing strategy.

Sorry, but you can’t make a fishing pole a cool weapon. It’s just not happening.

I noticed this volume has actual wording on a lot of the screens that can be read instead of indiscernible scribbles. Case in point: one of the earlier monitors mention a toilet being “decimated”.

Marrow is so funny, oh my god.

The second Jacques can’t get anywhere with threats he moves straight into emotional manipulation. Fucker.

Jaune being popular with the moms is too cute.

I’m so happy FNKI got a little cameo this season, I love them so much.

Robyn was really about to throw away her chance at winning the election over a single truck of supplies.

Oh damn. Winter was looking forward to being the Winter Maiden. She considered it as part of her destiny and it was a decision she was making her own. And then it was ripped out from under her. That’s gotta sting like hell.

Oh, right. Nora and Ren start having relationship issues this volume. Poor Ruby just wanted to go to a fun party with friends.

We get a bunch of cute Penny moments to placate us before we move into Sad Penny days.

It’s actually SO GOOD to see Nora put her foot down for something serious.

Ironwood saying that Salem’s lack of humanity is her greatest advantage actually makes his turn to outright villain make a little more sense. He’s out to win now, and if losing his humanity and restraint is what helps that, then so be it.

Oh, Klein was fired. Shame, he was a sweet character. Jacques couldn’t hire anyone else? Just gonna have his son act as the butler? Okay.

Watts and Ironwood fighting in a gravity arena is such a fun stage for their battle.

Pffft, Watts falls after shoving Ironwood’s arm into the hard light shield, but Ironwood didn’t do anything to him. So really, Watts just threw himself to the ground to be dramatic.

Tyrian is SO fun to watch when he’s fighting, he’s like a little tornado of knives and poison.

Damn, Qrow, Clover, and Robyn had Tyrian completely overwhelmed in that fight. That seems to be the way to beat him seeing as he’s usually the one overwhelming his opponents. If Clover and Qrow had focused on Tyrian after the crash they could’ve easily subdued him again.

Every scene with Salem is so well done. It’s always so ominous and chilling, she constantly feels like nothing but a threat.

If Clover dying is what it takes for me to get that amazing scene with Qrow and Tyrian fighting together, than so be it. Sacrifices must be made. U.U

Also, I never commented on what Tyrian’s doing when his hands are glowing with what I assume is his aura. He did that once before when he attacked Fiona and he cut straight through her aura. Then he does it again when fighting Clover. His eyes are purple, so it’s a subset of his poisoning, perhaps.

It’s kind of hard to see, but it looks like he retracts the blades on his wrists when he does it too. Huh...

Okay, I went back to watch A Night Off, and when Tyrian attacks Fiona one hand is purple and he uses that to tear straight through her aura and then uses the blade on his other hand, the one that’s not purple, to slice her. So Tyrian has the ability to just slice through someone’s aura temporarily. The poisoning must be just an aspect of his Faunus traits, and tearing through aura is his semblance.

oh no the whaaaaale

I didn’t really have a lot to say this Volume that I didn’t say during my first watch. As a whole it’s very well done, posing interesting questions and choices for all the characters and an overall consistent theme.

I will say that, having to constantly pause the show every minute to make commentary or screenshots, warps the pacing of the episodes in a certain way that can skew my first impression vs someone who just watches the episode normally. But I still really enjoy doing it this way, so that’s not going to stop me.

A quickie for the first 5 episodes of Volume 8:

I can’t believe i forgot about the fucking HOUND

So thinking about it now, I never really believed Emerald when she said that Cinder was her family because I don’t think Cinder has said one nice thing to Emerald the entire show. Beyond a generic “good job” or something like it. Like, Cinder has very clearly treated Emerald the same way she treats most everyone-- putting them at a distance, no affection or genuine attention. But Emerald acts like Cinder would be affectionate to her. She gets excited when she sees her and at one point it even looked like she was going in for a hug. I wonder if Cinder’s behavior towards Emerald is a new thing? Like Cinder was kind and affectionate (as much as Cinder is capable, anyway) to her before, but has recently needed to put on airs and treat Emerald different now? Maybe? I dunno. I don’t really see it, but it’s the only thing I can think of making sense. Cause I dunno why Emerald would keep acting like this towards Cinder if Cinder has always treated her so indifferently.

Annnnndddd, that’s it!

That concludes my rewatch of RWBY, now I’ll move into the next episode, Midnight, See ya then and thanks for reading!

[gachagon]

Yeah... Marrow is the least controversial of the Ace Ops on account of being the only one to turn against Ironwood when it had become clear that he was more concerned with "winning" than saving Atlas.

But a lot of people (myself included) feel that the Ace Ops' sudden last-second redemption in the final episodes of the Volume (Harriet's especially) came out of nowhere. Like, Harriet especially felt to be in poor taste to me, given the whole "cops can get away with murder as long as they have the right friends" thing in the real world, thus making Harriet being able to get away with trying to nuke a city by accepting friendship with the other Ace Ops more INSULTING than inspiring.

(Seriously, they should've either had her sacrifice herself to fly the Nuke away from Mantle or just had Watts remotely hijack the nuke instead of having Harriet attempt genocide out of spite, and most of the issues with her arc would be resolved. Like this wouldn't have resolved any of the issues with the Ace Ops bodyshaming and dehumanizing Penny and then never having to confront their biases because they turned Penny human and then immediately killed her off, but at least Harriet wouldn't be getting off scott free for a literal war crime because she shed some crocodile tears.)

I really feel like the Ace-Op's are my only real criticism of the story so far just because they've done too much that's just irredeemable and the show never spent enough time really talking about how fucked up it was that they were willing to just kill a bunch of innocent civilians for seemingly no reason, because at that point there really WAS no reason to murk Mantle. Salem had already arrived, she was already at their doorstep, and the people of Mantle were evacuating without his help. If Ironwood really didn't care to save mantle, why waste a bomb trying to get rid of it? Really just to spite them. He wasn't thinking clearly at all and seemed to think for some stupid reason that killing everyone in Mantle would make RWBY work with him, when I can just see that making them even more upset with him.

And I don't really like what they did with Clover just because he's such a new character not just to us, but to Qrow as well. I think it'd have been better if Clover was different from the other Ace-ops like maybe he was from Beacon like Qrow and that could give them some kind of connection, and make us think Clover would've been different from the rest of them. As it stands though, their whole confrontation just seems to be too stupid and silly. Because Clover dies so early, we don't really see him do anything that makes us think he's a good person.

In fact, after he dies his teammates prove to just be even worse then what we imagined. Every time they were like "Noooo Clover was better then all of us :(" I kept thinking Was he? Lol he tried to arrest Qrow for no real reason, and got himself killed by a serial killer. Sure Qrow blames himself for working alongside Tyrian in that moment, but knowing what we know now about the Ace-ops and how they were willing to legitimately genocide all of Mantle to fuel Ironwoods ego and fear........maybe getting rid of Clover was good luck on Qrow's part, but he is too lovey dovey and sad to understand that right now.

[gaygummy]

YEESH, just to expand a bit more on my previous post about RWBY and reincarnation, I really see now just how reincarnation is at the core of the show.

Again, we see it with Penny, not just merging with Winter, but when she first dies, but is then revealed later that she was able to be rebuilt, or remade- with improvements!

And of course, with all of Ever After, reincarnation is what the entire season is about.

I think that this also emphasizes how Salem, she never dies, so she doesn’t learn for the better, she’s static. Sure, she gets stronger, smarter, wiser, but she has lost what is much needed for being alive- which as Jaune learns last season, is death.

I wonder though, Salem cannot die, but can souls still be reincarnated with her? Is that what the issue is with the Maidens and how we really don’t want her to have them? I honestly just put that together... Anyway, that makes total sense, so is she planning on killing Cinder Fall when, if, she gets all of the Maiden’s powers? Then that way, she would have all of the Maidens powers... but would that mean that the souls merge with her as well? Would that change her? Or, before that even happens, what if when Cinder Fall gets all of the Maidens’ powers, she is then influenced by the past souls too? What if then, she turns on Salem?

EDIT:

Also, there are instances where Qrow uses Clover’s good luck charm, but as I have mentioned in the previous post, if Clover has reincarnated with Qrow, I wonder if instead of the good luck charm actually being good luck, but it’s actually Qrow using Clover’s semblance.

I can back this up further, with Ozpin and Oscar. Oscar’s semblance, is Ozpin’s semblance. I wonder if Oscar can only have that, or if he would get another one?

In any case, it is possible that Clover at least wished that Qrow could have that semblance, or what I think happened- Clover is with Qrow, reincarnated.

[itsclydebitches]

You think a show with the subject of Unity WOULD’VE made James redeemable. This show used to do this, during the Fall in V3 is when we really saw how close everyone was. Heck, Qrow saving Ironwood and assuring him he knows he would never do this was the moment we learned that, for all their differences, they ARE friends who care about each other. What happened to this? What happened to the hope and unity in times of a darkness? V7-8 makes me feel so dirty with the lack of compassion.

I think what frustrates me about Ironwood isn’t that the story had an antagonist/villain go too far to be redeemed within the story itself. After all, a story with a cast this side doesn’t need (and, arguably, shouldn’t have) every single character become #good if you’re looking for some kind of “realism.” The execution of the arcs aside, having someone who is too scared to do the right thing (Raven), or dies as a result of their unwillingness to back down (Adam) isn’t bad writing and doesn’t automatically undermine the message of unity. After all, we see the characters attempting such unity, or at least peace through distance—Ruby asking Raven to come over to their side, Yang telling Adam to just leave them alone—and those offers were rejected. At that point, there’s only so much the heroes can do. The ball is now in the antagonist's court.

So putting aside how badly Ironwood’s fall was written overall (which, obviously, contributes to the frustration) I think RWBY’s mistake stems largely from the heroes not making those offers, nor putting in the expected effort for an ally (in RWBYJNOR's case) and a friend (in Qrow and Winter's). I’ve seen a resurgence in the fandom of a “The heroes aren’t responsible for Ironwood” take and yeah, sure, technically speaking no one is responsible for anyone else, especially not when it’s a bunch of teenagers in regards to the world leader. However, if we’re thinking about this in terms of what the heroes preach and what messages the story wants to convey, then it is a problem that none of them work to unify with Ironwood. Many fans will claim they did do that work, but as discussed elsewhere, everything came with the “Do as we say” caveat. Ruby was only willing to unify provided they do things her way, which is no more unity than Ironwood demanding that she “unify” by doing exactly what he wants. It’s just obedience in either direction, but the difference is that Ironwood spent all of Volume 7 working towards actual unity in the form of offering information, support, and compromise whereas the group maintained their lie, demanded perfection without offering solutions, and went on to betray him. Then we hit Volume 8 where that mistake occurs: characters either ignore, or attack Ironwood/what he represents without trying to strive for that unity prior to giving up on him. Off the top of my head:

Qrow randomly drops his initial desire to talk to Ironwood to instead attack Clover with Tyrian, then plans a revenge killing on Ironwood.

Team RWBY chooses to fight the Ace Ops despite being given the call to approach this problem in a more peaceful way, even if it’s not ideal.

Penny is torn about this division between Ruby’s group and Ironwood's, but instead of allowing her to work through that—which could potentially lead to reunification—Ruby makes it clear that there are sides and Penny needs to stay on the correct one. (Seen mostly notably in Ruby taking Penny’s call and giving a very biased speech before entering Atlas HQ).

Winter and the Ace Ops both see Ironwood shoot a man… but no one cares? No one is going to try and talk to him about that? Make sure it doesn’t happen again? Even just leave if he’s officially gone off the deep end? By having them all stay by his side but without commenting on the murder (even in a “Holy shit is he gonna kill us? I’m too scared to try and escape” way), we’re left with the implication that they’re just… fine with that. No need to try and steer off the road Ironwood is heading down. This is whatever. We’ve got five otherwise active characters passively allowing this to happen because the story didn’t want Ironwood to change, but it also wasn’t capable of writing that fall persuasively.

Going off of that, many others have pointed to Winter’s brief talk with Ironwood before JNOR+E arrive to take him out. She explicitly says that she doesn’t think she can talk him out of this, despite the fact that no one has tried.

Ruby announces to the entire world that Ironwood is no longer trustworthy. This happens early in the Volume, before the bomb threat, when Ruby doesn’t know about the councilman, or Ironwood shooting Oscar, or anything else he's done while separated from her. All she knows is that he wanted to evacuate who he could and that, to Ruby’s mind, is worthy of world-wide condemnation. Regardless of whether we think Remnant would trust the word of an unknown, too young huntress, the fact remains that Ruby expects them to trust her. She expects them to believe her and act accordingly: all of Remnant should refrain from trusting Ironwood. Not only is this a strong indication that the writing never even considered giving Ironwood a redemption, but in-world our main characters—the one who is preaching unity—has rejected it completely despite having incredibly little reason to. At this point in time, from Ruby’s perspective, the worst thing Ironwood has done is try to save half his Kingdom rather than letting it all be destroyed, yet according to her, this is unforgivable.

When Yang has a long talk with Raven and makes no headway in changing her mind, I buy that there’s nothing left for Yang to do except walk away. When Adam has stalked Blake for weeks, attacked her twice, dismembered Yang, was given numerous chances to back down, and was still going in for the kill, I buy that there’s nothing left for them to do except act in self-defense, resulting in his death. In contrast, I personally don’t buy Oscar putting that amount of trust in Hazel with no indication that this would amount to anything except a major loss for the good side, but the story insists that this was the right thing to do. It’s worth reaching out to people, even if they’re one of Salem’s lackeys and are currently torturing you! Similarly, I don’t buy the heroes accepting Emerald with the speed they did, but again, the story insists that this was the right thing to do. It’s worth reaching out to people, even if they’re one of Salem’s/Cinder’s lackeys, destroyed your school, helped murder your friend, and tried to kill that friend again just an hour ago! The message is that the chance of success doesn't matter, it's always correct to try and get people to do the right thing. The execution of all this is incredibly messy, but usually RWBY gives us something in regard to why redemption hasn’t happened despite those offers. Either it does happen (logic be damned) thereby justifying the effort in the first place, or the antagonist refused to take it, letting the hero off the hook. They tried and that's all we can ask of them.

The exceptions to this are Ozpin and Ironwood. Ozpin was granted forgiveness, but it was never offered. He had to come begging for it after circumstances ensured he couldn’t keep his distance anymore. However, Ironwood is (apparently) operating under a semblance that ensures he focuses 100% on whatever task he has set, presumably making it impossible (or at least very, very hard) to snap out of that and go asking for his own redemption. Iffy canon aside, there are a dozen more reasons why it’s unreasonable to expect Ironwood to orchestrate a moment like Ozpin’s—from him actually believing he’s right to just not being forced to interact with the group—which means that redemption could only come if someone offered it. After Oscar's attempt that, in retrospect, was pretty lackluster and maintained those caveats, one did. No one was inclined to help, or push back, or work to save a man they supposedly cared about. It would indeed take work! It would not be easy, nor without risk, but isn’t that supposed to be the message of RWBY? Trust love and fight for unity? The characters are, apparently, willing to put in that effort and accept that risk for the likes of Hazel and Emerald… just not Ironwood. Ironwood is the outlier who, despite being surrounded by people of varying relationships—from subordinates to friends—and despite these people having varying responses to his actions—from horror to full support—none of them, when it was clear he needed help, was inclined to offer that. And sure, that’s a story. There’s nothing wrong with that story, but it’s certainly not the kind of story RWBY claims to want to tell.

[czechforrain]

As a clover fan I find it interesting is he’s canonically not gay yet still is comfortable enough to be emotionally open, cheerful and other things that aren’t always associated typically associated with masculinity. But in terms of ideaology he’s very firm on his perception on what the law means and how it informs his views on right and wrong. His ultimate trust in Ironwood leading to him wanting to take down both Qrow and Tyrian instead of teaming up to defeat Tyrian. This is what causes his downfall.

I know there’s either two very vocal opinions. He’s a “fucking bootlicking cop” or “clover did nothing wrong” but I like the idea of him as the ultimate result of being a person who tries to be helpful and kind that binds themselves to an oppressive system.

I think Robyn realizes this too and her saying he was a lot of things is taken as “this guys totally fucking sucked but I don’t want to hurt your feelings”. But i don’t see it that way. I think Robyn recognizes Clover ultimately wanted to help people, maybe more so even then ironwood but was trapped by his position and was ultimately an antagonistic force to change.

Seeing how their likely in a similar age range, I could easily see a scenario where they grew up as huntsman together in the academy and actually got along in a kind of “butt heads but ultimately agree on basic principles” kind of way. But after they graduated maybe Clover found himself buying the goods James sold as Robyn grew more and more disillusioned with the lack of progress and effort James took towards mantle.

That’s headcanon but I 100% believe Robyn’s views of clover are more complicated then her emotional views of Ironwood at this moment. I think it’s a mixture of frustration, anger, pity, some amount of former respect, snark and sadness. It’s also obvious she’s somewhat sad/disappointed he’s dead, even if part of that is the depressing effect that his death has had on Qrow.

I think that’s why Clover is so frustrating, he’s the idealized version of “a good cop” that is utterly chained to the law and though he may not jump to police brutality and will offer warnings and advice so people don’t just get arrested immediately, he ultimately cannot go against the law. And Ironwood is the Law, and we’ve seen through V7-V8 how negative his role has been for the citizens of mantle. Clover acting alongside Robyn would be a much better use of his power to help people since the Happy Huntresses do all of the good of The Ace Ops but without the Whole “being dogs to ironwood” part.

Had he survived to Volume 8, I think he’d be conflicted by James Action but would find a way to excuse them or wouldn’t be as harsh as he would need to be. Similar to Winter but more loyal ultimately. While we ascribe Winter to Ironwoods 2nd in command role, I think Clover had a similar cache with him and him dying meant ironwood was beyond help. I think there would be a slight chance that Winter and Clover together could reach him and bring him back (to at least non genocide) but when he died so too did that chance. It’d be interesting to imagine though I imagine he would be more likely to remain on ironwoods side then winter. But it’s also possible winter could reach him somewhat. We’ll never know.

So while Clover may want to help people, cares about civilians, wants to help the next generation, and wants to be friends with Qrow, he ultimately ends up in a postion with a negative impact.

[aspoonofsugar]

I hope this is not too much of a hassle but by any chance could you do an analysis on Watts, Tyrian, and Hazel.

Hello anon!

Sure, no problem :) I think I have shared some thoughts on these three characters in other metas, but I’ll get this chance to organize them and to put them all together.

In general, I would say Watts, Tyrian and Hazel are not extremely deep characters and they mostly work as foils to others, drive subplots in specific arcs and highlight themes.

Here is a list of their major narrative roles, as for now.

1) They symbolize three parts of Salem:

Each member of Salem’s inner circle represents one side of her.

Watts is her entitlement.

Tyrian is her desire of destruction for the sake of destruction.

Cinder is her wish to be free.

Hazel is her inability to grieve.

They are Salem’s three flaws. The reasons why she ends up the way she is.

Salem’s journey starts because she is unable to grieve:

Salem: No! No! What did you do?! BRING HIM BACK!

And because she feels she deserves better than others:

God of Light: When you first came to me, I did pity you. But it is clear now that your selfishness and arrogance have led you astray.

Finally, she enters the pool of Darkness and embraces destruction:

Jinn: Instead, it created a being of infinite life with a desire for pure destruction.

At the same time, Tyrian and Hazel also represent Salem’s inability to understand the cycle of life and death:

God of Light: You must learn the importance of life and death. Only then may you rest.

The cycle is about loving life and accepting death. However, Salem initially refuses death (like Hazel) and then starts despising life (like Tyrian)

Interestingly, Hazel is eventually able to understand Gretchen’s choice:

Hazel: I'm doing what Gretchen would have done!

And dies sacrificing himself for others, just like Gretchen did.

I wonder if Tyrian’s death will be something which will instead be linked to him finally aknowledging the importance of life. Since Tyrian is a very negative character (and I do not think he will have a redemptive or particularly empowering death) it might be something as simple as him begging for his life.

2) Watts, Hazel and Tyrian all act as the main secondary villain of a specific arc and they are linked to the main theme of that arc.

a) Hazel fights in the Battle of Heaven and he is linked to Knowledge:

Oscar: Did she know the risk of being a Huntress?

Hazel: She was only a child! She wasn't ready!!

Oscar: She made a choice!

Knowledge is complementary to Choice. It is what you must aquire to choose wisely. However, initially Hazel does not understand it. He dismisses Gretchen’s choice as a her being tricked and he himself lacks the knowledge to make the right decision.

This is why his turning sides is linked to the relic of Knowledge:

Jinn: Why, hello again, old man. Did you have a question for me?

Hazel: Actually, I think all my questions are answered now.

He finally understands the truth and is able to choose:

Oscar: What are you going to do?

Hazel: What Gretchen would have done.

b) Watts displays his hacking abilities to its fullest in the Atlas Arc. This connects him to the theme of Creation and in particular to its negative declination aka Control:

Cinder: You said in your message that you have control over Penny.

Watts: I said I had Penny under control, not that I could telekinetically force her to do whatever I want.

He hacks Penny and overwrites her will. Moreover, he himself ends up manipulated and “controlled” by Cinder:

Cinder: You deserve this, Arthur. We'll be back.

c) Tyrian has roles both in the Mistral Arc and in the Atlas Arc. However, he misses from the climaxes of both, so I think he will be important in Vacuo and maybe he’ll find his death in that arc. Moreover, the theme of Destruction seems to fit his character.

Finally, when it comes to themes, Hazel, Tyrian and Watts all explore the theme of trust (aka one of the main themes of the Atlas Arc) in a minor way.

To be more specific, the theme of trust is explored throughout the story in different ways. I have explained it better here and here.

It is interesting because the theme of trust is explored starting with Ozpin, Oscar’s foil, who does not trust others, so our protagonists feel betrayed. However, in Atlas they find themselves in Ozpin’s shoes and must choose if to trust Ironwood or not.

Here, we explore a form of conditional trust. This idea is presented by Ruby, who wants to be sure it is safe to trust Ironwood. So she keeps secrets and studies him until she decides she can trust him… only to discover that was not the case immediately after. This happens because trust can never be completely safe. Actually, in its most negative declination, this kind of trust becomes the control symbolized by Ironwood.

No matter what, trust is always a leap of faith. This is why trust is a risk. Oscar shows this concept well. He decides to still trust Ironwood at the end of volume 7, but it does not work. Still, he does not stop and decides to trust Emerald and Hazel. This time his trust and faith are repaid. He is fred and gains a new ally.

Anyway, even if trust is worth it, the exploration of this theme in Atlas actually ends on a negative note. It ends with Cinder who is an enemy of trust because she uses others’ trust and feelings against them.

In short, we are shown what trust is through Oscar, what it happens when there is no trust through Ozpin and how trust can be twisted and manipulated through Cinder.

Well, Hazel, Watts and Tyrian explore these same ideas in their subplots.

Tyrian takes advantage of the lack of trust among Robyn, Clover and Qrow:

Tyrian: It's taking a very long time for this show to get to the good part.

He exploits it and manages to kill Clover because of it.

Hazel shows the power of trusting others instead:

Oscar: You want him to trust us? Then trust me.

Oscar’s trust makes him willing to listen and later on he decides to help the kids escape.

Finally, Watts is used and discarded by Cinder, who fakes trust and friendship towards him and Neo.

3) Hazel, Tyrian and Watts all foil a member of Ozpin’s group and show their flaw in a clearer way.

Hazel foils Ozpin himself:

Hazel: He didn't tell you my tale, did he, boy? I thought you looked familiar, to think that evil was inside you when our paths first crossed. Your blood won't be on my hands, it'll be on his.

On one hand Hazel accuses Ozpin of sending kids to their deaths, while hurting children himself. On the othet hand Ozpin speaks about the importance of making choices, but does not give all the knowledge necessary to make an informed choice. So, both characters earnestly believe in their ideals, but they are also hypocrites about them.

Watts foils Ironwood.

Watts accuses Ironwood of having used his genius only to dismiss him later on and does not aknowledge how he himself has taken advantage of Atlas society that leaves those below (like Cinder) to rot. Moreover, both Ironwood and Watts frame themselves as rational, but lose precisely because they dismiss the importance of feelings for both manipulation (Watts) and trust (ironwood).

Finally, Tyrian foils Qrow.

In particular, Tyrian embodies Qrow’s self-destructive tendencies, which are Qrow’s true flaw. As a matter of fact Qrow ends up hurt in both fights (the first tiem physically, while the second time emotionally) not because Tyrian is stronger than him. He ends up hurt because of his flaw.

In Mistral, his misunderstanding with Ruby leads to him being poisoned. This happens because Qrow is so scared of his semblance that he keeps others away and does not explain himself.

In Atlas, his cynism leads him to make a pact with Tyrian and this leads to Clover’s death.

4) Finally, Hazel, Watts and Tyrian all foil a member of CEM:

I have discussed Emerald and Mercury’s foiling with Hazel and Tyrian here and here.

Hazel and Tyrian step in as Emerald and Mercury’s parental figures once Cinder leaves them behind.

Hazel is Emerald’s positive parental figure, but he is blinded by his flaw, just like she is.

Tyrian is Mercury’s negative parental figure, but he also tells the boy truths he needs to accept.

At the same time, Hazel is what Emerald really wants (an adult who looks out for her), while Tyrian is who Mercury thinks he wants to be (a big bad man). In both cases, they are not what Emerald and Mercury really need. Emerald must learn to be more independent, while Mercury needs to nurture his positive relationship(s).

I have discussed Cinder’s foiling with Watts here, here and here.

Watts embodies Cinder’s flaw (her hunger for power) enveloped in everything she hates, but also deep down envies (being an Atlas elites).

It is interesting that Watts is not really a mentor figure for Cinder (differently from Hazel and Tyrian for the murder kids). He is a colleague, so they are on equal footing. Interestingly, though, they both try to discredit the other and to act as the other’s superior.

In general, this is another way to convey that Cinder is less child-coded than the two kids she took in.

At the same time, it shows how Atlas makes relationships between equals difficult because in Atlas everyone always tries to be on top and discards the ones below.

5) Hazel, Watts and Tyrian’s arcs, when they exist, are very short and simple.

Moreover, they are built on what ifs.

What would happen if Hansel lost Gretel?

He would stay a prisoner of the Witch forever, until he manages to free himself doing what his sister would have done:

In a sense, Gretchen still frees Hazel, not physically like in the fairy tale, but psychologically because she inspires him.

What would happen if Watson were envious of Sherlock?

He would join Moriarty and end up consumed by his own envy:

Watts is shown eating a green apple while controlling a falling Atlas. This is interesting because Atlas is the house of our titular Snowhite and green is a color associated with envy. It is as if Watts has taken the bait Cinder offered him using his feelings of entitlement and jealousy:

Cinder: You have everything you need?

Watts: Oh, believe me, this is everything I've ever wanted.

His arc is also a clear case of wants versus needs. He gets what he wants, ignoring that this is not what he needs.

What would happen is the Scorpion killed the Frog, but survived?

The answer is that he would keep making pacts he breaks (like the one with Qrow) and would keep poisoning others (both physically or psychologically).

This until he leads himself to his own demise, just like his fable counterpart.

Thank you for the ask!

[tumblezwei]

forget every other LGBT character on the show - in the show the only confirmed lbgt characters are illia who was originally a jealous terrorist who tried to kill her crushes parents, Jaunes sisters the background characters, and May who I will admit is great rep. Word of god and canon are two different things. While they are hinting at BB neither is confirmed lgbt. They don't have to be in a relationship but they still haven't been confirmed as lbgt.

Whatever you feel about the writing the marketing team and the animators did confirm they were coding Clover as gay. Remember at the time even homophobic fans 100% believed Clover was gay and Qrow and him might hook up. His death does set a precedent on how the show handled mlm. The fact the team never considered viewers would read the relationship as queer shows how for mlm they are unfortunately heteronormative. How they handled the fallout also set a precedent.

You DO NOT have to like Clover. You can hate him for any reason what so ever. But being a good ally means shockingly understanding mlm and the other lgbt fans who were hurt by everything that happened. Instead of getting mad at them for their reactions continue to encourage RT to include more lgbt rep especially rep for mlm that isn't based on stereotypes like Scarlet. Truth is many mlm actually hate Scarlet and don't appreciate him being their rep.

Fucking finally, I was wondering when one of y'all would see that post. I was starting to worry that I'd have to go without someone trying to devalue the LGBT rep on the show in order to lift up their favorite cop.

And despite what this ask is trying to imply, neither Ilia nor Saphron and Terra are bad rep. And I guarantee you that if this ask had come before the latest episode, this person would have tried to claim May was bad rep too. Also, I've said this so many times, you'd have to be acting deliberately obtuse to claim BB isn't canon yet. And it being canon is confirmation of them being wlw.

And I'd like to know what makes Ilia bad rep when she's incredibly similar to Clover. They're both characters that were part of a group that's doing morally questionable things because they think that what they're doing is right. Why is Ilia stuck with "ex-terrorist" as a reason for why she's bad rep, but Clover can't get "the leader of the secret police?" Almost like you're trying to downplay the show's rep so you can be more justifiably mad that your ship isn't canon.

And even taking away all that, the point of my post wasn't to say "look at all this great rep, we don't need gay Clover," it was to point out that there are other LGBT characters in RWBY, none of which have died. So Clover stans acting as if their no confirmed cop fave should be the standard for how we view CRWBY's treatment of LGBT characters and death is annoying.

The marketing team did jackshit. They sold Qrow and Clover pins, that's it. Because they are complimentary characters and Clover was an important player in Qrow's arc.

Animators shipping a pairing means jackshit. Kara likes White Knight but you don't see anyone using that fact as confirmation that WK is canon. Weird how Word of God doesn't count for the other characters, but it's fine to use as evidence for Clover being coded gay.

I'm gonna need a citation on that homophobic thing, and even if that's true, it means jackshit. I can already predict that these people were only talking about it as a way to shit on RT, something that they will use literally anything for, especially if it’s complaining about a popular gay ship in the fandom whether it’s canon or not. 

And no, Clover did not set the precedent for mlm rep, because he wasn't rep. It's not heteronormative for men to be friends, it's not heteronormative for them to support each other. Y’all were shipping the two of them from day one, before they even had the chance to talk at all. Don’t pretend like you picked up on some subtext that CRWBY didn’t when all it took was Clover having a good luck semblance and winking to get y’all to proclaim them as endgame. 

And bitch I am LGBT, and I know what queerbait looks like. I’ve been baited before, I’ve seen other fans of shows I don’t watch be baited, I know what it looks like for a company to use and exploit a relationship to draw people in. This wasn’t fucking it. Don’t you condescendingly explain to me what it means to “be a good ally” when all I see from FG shippers is attacking CRWBY and trying to downplay the other rep in the show to make Clover’s death worse than it is, kind of like what you’re doing. It will never be CRWBY’s fault that y’all took a wink, an ambiguous smile, and a semblance and decided FG was endgame. 

And I’ve said before, I want there to be more mlm rep. But understanding Clover wasn’t gay and his death wasn’t queerbait can be synonymous with that desire for more mlm on the show. 

Anyways Clover wasn’t gay, he was a fascist lapdog from beginning to end and died a stupid death due to his overconfidence, over reliance on his semblance, and refusal to disobey Ironwood’s orders for even a second. Cope. 

[kitkatopinions]

I love how people will defend crwby when they give jackshit about rep and their fans. Like with clover (i know they didnt make it official but just look at eddies stupid tweet). They fucked up, it was queerbaiting, so the best course of action is to imply that harriet had feelings for clover and bad mouth the dead man. They could have just say "everyone of us was acting stupid and he died" nooo clover wouldnt leave qrow alone and robyn says later that clover is the lesser huntsmen. They could just say "hey clover was like a brother to harriet, she was his second in command, this hurts her very much" nooo clover was important for harriet, you know important. How does that even fit? They didnt have the balls to stand to their mistake and write about it, so they just twisted and turned so they could ignore what they wrote the last volume. Brilliant (and yes i will forever be bitter that qrow doesnt take responsibility for causing clovers death and just whines about his semblance)

Honestly, the way that Qrow/Clover was handled is a big blight on the company in my opinion. There's a great blog called @fairgame-was-queerbait where you can see lots of information about why Clover and Qrow was one hundred percent queerbaiting, and people are right to be mad about it.

The way that the writers really spent their time pointing fingers instead of actually admitting that they messed up... And the way that members of the fandom have been refusing to recognize it as queerbaiting, BYG, or problematic has also been staggering. This was something that deeply hurt LGBTQ+ RWBY fans, especially mlm that weren't otherwise represented. Eddy Rivas has apologized for the hurt fans went through, but not in a way that recognized that the hurt had been a direct result of their actions. And whether that action was directly intentionally contributing as a writer or just not checking the animation and marketing or letting the show go as is despite seeing it and knowing how it'd be taken, or never telling people not to get their hopes up and that the ship was not intended despite knowing that it was quickly becoming one of the more popular RWBY ships is besides the point.

Fans have been quick to say that obviously FG was unintentional and that Clover couldn't have been meant to be read as gay because "the writers would never do that," while ignoring Miles Luna's discussions regarding Pilot Boi. He had been told about how Bury Your Gays was a very harmful trope and therefore decided not to include Pilot Boi being gay, but then 'was kicking himself' over not doing it anyway because Pilot Boi was popular. The fact that these fans are so delusional to believe that the writers would never do something, when they literally expressed that they wished they'd done it. Why is it so hard to believe that the writers would cross that line with Clover when one of them openly regretted not crossing that line earlier?

(Although as a side note, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that Qrow 'caused' the death of Clover. Everybody lost braincells there in that fight and he definitely wasn't without sin and I for sure think he ought to have been guilty and taken responsibility for having broken Clover's aura, plus letting the blame fall to the guy who was literally fecking murdered was terrible. But Qrow didn't cause Tyrian to kill Clover, and he didn't cause Robyn to start up the fight in the first place when he and Clover were both being fairly peaceable at first.)

But! The way that RWBY said 'let's drag Clover after his death, imply things about his character that we never showed to be true, and have Robyn of all people say Qrow's just better than him.' Also, if Qrow really freaking cared about Clover in the show enough to keep that pin (that by all rights should've gone to the Ace Ops,) maybe he could tell Robyn to keep Clover's name out of her thin mouth, and be actually angry that she started the whole damn fight in the fricking first place. Honestly, I didn't like Clover at first and I don't ship Fair Game, but God almighty, the frustration I've felt watching the fandom start harassing people who liked him or the people that are mad about queerbaiting... Now I do like the idea of Clover and enjoy writing for him, and it's actually because of all the haters. So congrats to the RWBY simps, they've turned me into a Clover fan.

And if Qrow ends up with Robyn, I will... Post angrily about it. Using caps lock. After I finish vomiting over having to see it.

Here's the link to fairgame-was-queerbait again, I'd recommend anyone who wants to see the tweets and the screenshots check it out, I was so glad to find their blog and be able to see all this stuff for myself. It's honestly staggering that people are denying that there was queerbaiting, and saying that fans just 'invented this ship in their heads' or have no right to be upset. BTW, nobody better try that invalidating stuff in my comments. I'll block on sight.

[luckyharbinger]

(REPOST) Winter’s Role in Volume 8

...and as it relates to Staff Theory, because...well, look who posted this.

So it’s not really a secret that Winter has always had a sort of passive role throughout the series. She’s a supporting character in every sense, not just a non-main character but a character who’s never the center of her own story. Everything she is as a person is tightly bound to someone else, as opposed to the kids of Team RWBY, JNOR, and co. who could all easily be the main characters of their own mini-series. Everything Winter does or “desires” is in the interest of someone else.

So what I’m going to discuss below is how that narrative rut affects her, how it relates to a few other characters, and what it might mean for the finale of Volume 8.

Alas, the original of this post got deleted, so if you liked the analysis, please give this one a reblog instead, since the other read-more directs to nothing.

Let’s start with V8Ch1.

This seems like a pretty normal thing to say to someone in the wake of terrible loss, doesn’t it?

Well...yes, on the surface. But from a narrative standpoint, there’s a little more going on here. This is one of many instances in which Winter is expected to take the place of someone else.

In Volume 7, it’s established that Winter was selected to be the next Winter Maiden, something she claims that she’d taken as her own destiny, but obviously not something she herself had ever planned for. At that time, it was unclear if taking the Maiden ability would change her as a person. But with that mantle taken by Penny (haha), Winter has a new void to fill: the one Clover left behind.

Let’s take a look at V7Ch3.

Sounds familiar, no?

The way the narrative compares Winter and Clover is more subtle than the comparison between Clover and Qrow, but there all the same. It’s a more situational difference and something that doesn’t have as much to do with who they are as people. In a narrative sense, Clover’s death quite literally marks a pivot in the plot where things go from pretty bad to absolutely fucked. Clover, you see, is Atlas’s good luck charm. When he’s around, things go well. He’s playful with his team. He likes Qrow. He says “James.”

Winter, on the other hand, isn’t lucky at all. After Clover dies (and with Winter attempting and failing to replace him), things are a little less than ideal. Everything’s going to hell. Winter is frigid and professional with his team, such as when she pulls rank. She’s always disliked Qrow. She says “sir.”

Anyways, back to V8.

It's pretty obvious in this scene that James could use a bit of comfort. He's only human. He's afraid. But James and Winter don't have that kind of relationship. She calls him sir. The person who would've called him "James" is on the table in the other room, and in fact, James had just been looking there before turning to thank her.

Winter almost forgets herself here. The pause between the question and "sir" implies that for a moment, Winter saw a terrified man instead of her usually fearless General. But James and Winter are colleagues, not friends, so Winter adds the formality back in, despite James quietly admitting to a moment of weakness.

Let's be clear: James is not consciously expecting Winter to replace Clover emotionally. No one is. James and Clover clearly have a history (see this post for a bit of talk on how Clover represents James's now lost left hand) and Winter obviously can't make up for that.

Let's take a look at V8CH7.

There's a reason Ren cuts Harriet off before she says "Clover." I'd wager there's two reasons. The first, of course, being that Clover is due to return, and the second being that even if he wasn't, Winter can't ever be him, and it's a disservice to her personhood to act as though she could.

Now, Winter knows she can't fill that void Clover left. I don't think she's really trying to, even as she's aware of that expectation (however subconscious that expectation may be). You can tell by the way they hide her expression when Harriet tries to named her as Clover's replacement. But Winter isn't like Weiss, where she becomes her own person after being free from her father. She doesn't fight people's expectations or really establish her own goals like Weiss does. She either runs from it (Schnee legacy) or she just goes with it (Maiden, Clover.)

I think Winter in some way will be a catalyst for the finale events. Nothing on Atlas's side will change until Winter changes, and she could very well be the last straw to either undo James or put him back together. It's not enough for Winter to simply not fulfill the expectation to replace Clover. She must actively and openly refuse it.

I'm not really sure what's going to trigger this change. Possibly Marrow, should he defect first, possibly a confrontation with Weiss after the bomb goes off. But every character's name speaks to some aspect of their character, and I think that if James represents Atlas, then much like the harsh climate, Winter will be something that's deeply impactful towards the fate of both him and the city.

Winter has not been her own person as long as we have known her, and that won't change so long as she is filling an expectation, taking someone else's place, or filling some void. Both Penny and Ren have stated that she matters, not as a Maiden or as a soldier but as a person with choices, and her character cannot grow until she takes those words to heart.

Both James and the Ace Ops are upset that someone they loved has died, but societal norms set in Atlas even before the Great War insist that teams aren’t made of your ride-or-dies, but of coworkers with no platonic or familial attachments. This emotional dissonance leaves them seeking a quick replacement instead of properly processing their grief, and this is where they subconsciously attach their emotional needs to their professional requirements from Winter.

What Ren is saying here isn’t just that Clover is too important to be replaced, but that Winter is too important to replace him.

[ironwoodprotectionsquad]

How would have a hypothetical "Ironwood redemption arc" have gone in your opinion?

That is a....complicated question anon. Because the way initially Volume 7 set up things James didn’t really need to be redeemed in any sense. Is leaving behind citizens in Mantel a good thing? Of course not. But James didn’t just leave everyone for giggles and shit or because he hated Mantel. He was in the middle of evacuating Mantel when he found out Salem was coming and was massively triggered and his trauma induced flight response kicked in. He was scared, more scared then we had ever seen him before, all he could think to do was run with what they had as fast as possible, and the question on whether that was the best choice is an interesting moral dilemma but not something either side would need a redemption arc for. Both RWBY and James where justified in their beliefs on both sides but at the time technically by defying James and actively trying to stop him that put RWBY more in the wrong.

The issue is the writers said they wanted a complex moral dilemma in volume 7 but then too many people agreed with James so they decided to backpedal and make James a monster rather then continue the compelling and complex moral dilemma they created. The way V7 was set up neither side was necessarily in need of redemption. They could have learned to work together better and James could learn that sometimes it’s worth it to take risks to save more lives and RWBY could have learned sometimes they can’t save everyone but that doesn’t make them bad people, it just means the bad guys are that, bad people who are willing to kill innocent people and sometimes they cause too much damage for them to save everyone but it’s not their fault or the fault of anyone trying to save those people when not everyone is saved. Sometimes they can do everything right and the bad guys still win.

But okay I know that’s not technically the ask but it’s hard for me because if I had my way so much of volume 8 would not have even happened so theirs nothing James would needed to have been redeemed for. Sure he might have learned that sometimes it is worth it to risk everything to save everyone but that’s not a redemption thing that’s a learning and maybe kind of recovering from severe trauma deal. For at least everything RWBY was willing to condemn him for (remember they told everyone James was untrustworthy when all he’d done that they where aware of was try and escape Salem with everyone on Atlas and leave those he couldn’t evacuate behind. Really James could argue at that point that he had a plan and no one else offered a better plan that was viable and he would be right. No one tried to come up with a doable plan and just threw a hissy fit when they told James to come up with something better and he couldn’t. This man is going through a major PTSD induced panic attack and is being triggered to hell and back all he can probably think to do is run he’s not in a mental state to come up with something better but it’s what everyone is demanding of him and are getting pissed when he can’t. But okay to make things simpler I’ll look at Volume 8 James in his complete OOC nonsense for a moment and work with that, but even so for a redemption arc to work their needs to be some major changes to the volume. (Beneath the link because I have a lot to say lolz)

So one issue I have with the idea of having to redeem James is that no one ever tries to reach out to James and give any sort of viable option to save everyone, they just tell him he has to save everyone and throws a hissy fit when he says he can’t. For this all to work instead we need to see the girls trying to reach him and talk to him and beg to stop for a moment and let them think and come up with something but James refuses insisting they have no time and can’t wait to come up with something or everyone will die.

In this version James would not kill Sleet, shoot down the SDC ships or threaten to bomb Mantel. Instead he arrests the council and tells them once they’re safe from Salem they can do with him whatever they please as long as everyone is safe. After Oscar blows up the whale James tells the team he has a bomb ready to drop on Salem when she starts t reform but the team realizes that dropping the bomb would likely kill civilians close to said bomb but in James’s mind it’s what has to be done to buy them time to escape but everyone refuses to go along with James’s plan.

I’m torn on James hacking Penny because I think it would violate her autonomy in a way I feel like James wouldn’t want to do but at the same time if he’s really set on doing whatever needs to be done to save the many he might do that so I guess the hacking Penny thing is a little up in the air for me. If we want to push James further into darker morally gray he would hack her but if we want to keep him from going to far he wouldn’t. If he does hack her his justification would be he needs the staff to save people and Penny is the only way he can get the staff. (Regardless Penny would not be turned human because that is BS).

When Ruby sends the SDC ships Grimm would instead tear them down and James would recuse to send ships to help because in his mind it would be a pointless waste and he can’t lost what few ships he has left to protect Atlas as it’s fleeing Salem so the Grimm destroy the ships meant to evacuate people.

After Atlas falls have him survive and be desperately trying to find any survivors and completely falling apart as he slowly realizes no one survived and everyone is dead. Have him break and when he’s found by the ace ops and Qrow he’s inconsolable.

Qrow wants to blame James for everything that went wrong and James just doesn’t care anymore, he’s broken and just wishes he had died as well because it’s what he deserved in his mind. All he had done every morally questionable thing he had done to save everyone only wound up killing them all. Have him loath himself and tell Qrow to just kill him and get it over with, have that be what finally snaps Qrow out of his anger and make him realize he also abandoned James and that at least some of this maybe could have been stopped if he’d actually been supporting. James the whole time. Have them both apologize to each other and accept that they both made mistakes and they both failed. Have them all make their way to Vacuo with James swearing to do better and do so.

When they reach Vacuo Winter and co not trust James and want to arrest or even kill him and have Qrow and the ace ops defend him and tell them they can trust him and that they are also to blame for Atlas and that they can’t just throw all t he blame on James, have James apologize for the things that crossed the line that he did, have him tell everyone about his semblance so they understand what happened so they can hold him accountable and catch him before he gets to far in the future.

Have James be in the streets doing whatever he can to help people, have him push himself to his limit trying to keep going as long as he can before completely crashing. Have him doubt and second guess himself every time he makes a decision wondering if he’s making the same mistakes again but Qrow is their to assure him he’s not.

But even this scenario isn’t really ideal I think it would be so much more interesting if it’s RWBY that needs to be “redeemed” for lack of better words. This would bring a lot of changes to volume 8 but I think it’s some needed changes. The girls have been just doing whatever they feel like the entire series and not really ever facing any consequences. Have that finally catch up to them. We would cut the whole James shooting Sleep, trying to bomb Mantel and him hacking Penny nonsense. Instead have James arrest the council explaining that he has no choice and they can do what they see fit to him once they’ve escaped Salem and everyone is safe. Have him when Oscar blows up the Whale have him try and reach out to them and tell them that they bought Mantel time and when the girls send the SDC ships have Grimm attack the ships instead and James is trying to help defend them but he also lost a lot of ships and firepower in the attack and he can only watch helplessly as the ships that would have continued evacuations get destroyed along with the few ships he had left. Have the girls think he intentionally let this happen and refuse to speak to him. Except for Penny who is torn on what to do but everyone is telling her not to trust James but she doesn’t know what to think anymore.

Meanwhile James is in Atlas trying to figure out what to do, he doesn’t want to leave people behind but with no ships left to evacuate and the girls refusing to speak to him so he can’t use the staff he doesn’t know what to do. Qrow escapes and goes to confront James because he’s broken about Clover dying (Qrow doesn’t side with Tyrian in this version) and wants someone to blame he can actually do something about and while fighting James is trying to reach to Qrow who has a breakdown and hates himself for Clover dying and hates his semblance and thinks he’s a curse and James has to remind him he’s not a curse and it’s not his fault and Qrow asks if the same applies to him but James just can’t respond because he does blame himself for how things have gotten and the girls not trusting him and Qrow realizing that it’s his fault because he didn’t stand up for James and he apologizes for letting the girls lie to him for so long and not saying anything. Have James apologize for not trusting others more to help and come up with ideas and trying to do it all on his own.

After this they try and contact the team again but the girls all think Qrow is being manipulated by James and refuse to listen and do their plan of tricking James and arresting him only this time Qrow is also arrested again. The whole portals thing can happen same as in the show with the show actually showing a lot of people died and didn’t make it through and James again survives because of Mettle and Qrow survives because he turns into a bird and flies away but comes back trying to find any survivors and finds James. After realizing their are no survivors they decide to go to Vacuo because that’s where Salem will go next and they find what remains of the survivors. Winter and co are exhausted trying to keep everyone safe on their own and they’ve lost a chunk of the few that made it through the portals.

When Ruby and co make it back from their vacation I mean the island they expect to find people thanking them in Vacuo but instead they’re met with anger. People who lost loved ones who would have survived with James’s plan, people who now have nothing and Vacuo is straining for enough resources and people are dying slowly because their just isn’t enough to sustain everyone.

I know the show would never go this route I just think it would have been interesting and then facing some consequences for their actions is long overdue at this point. I have a more realistic au I want to eventually do but that’s all in a different post.

So long story short, I just do not think James should have ever even gotten to the point of needing to be redeemed with our so called Hero’s RIGHT THEIR. They should have reached out to him and stopped him from spiraling out of control but CRWBY knew that if anyone reached out he might not have spiraled but the girls couldn’t have been the sole hero’s of the story and we can’t have that so they did....volume 8 instead not realizing the girls could have been the hero’s and James not screwed over if they actually tried to write a good and compelling story but just decided it was too much work.

Sorry this is long and rambling but I don’t have a computer right now and I don’t know when I’ll have it so I’m doing this on mobil (also app crashed and I lost my first draft of this so I may have lost some stuff that was in the original version rip)

[remnantoforario]

Winter and Ironwood

So I was originally going to put this as part of my long rant about how Winter and Ironwood’s fight in Volume 8 was handled, but that post got so long that I just decided to make two different posts. You can find “Part 1″ here.

How about this? 

Instead of making all the scenes with Penny and Winter in V7 about humanity and following orders, how about we recontextualize that time to focus more on Winter’s relationship with Ironwood? 

Whenever something goes wrong or other characters start to blame him for things, Winter is the first one to step up and defend him. He might not be making the most popular decisions, but he’s doing what he thinks is best for Atlas and all of Remnant. Winter helps reinforce this. 

Instead of wasting time on bad montages and even worse comedy, throw in a flashback of Winter being thrown out on her ass after disowning the Schnee name and show her being taken in by Ironwood. 

Show her rising through the ranks of the military with Ironwood watching over and guiding her. Show WHY she trusts him so much. You can also show a flashback of how Ironwood was right after the Fall of Beacon. Show him coming to terms with the fact that Beacon fell, Ozpin is gone, their defenses were completely shattered, and how everyone sees Atlas as an enemy. Have Winter (and the Ace-Ops) be there to assure him that she will always be on his side no matter what. 

In Volume 8, put more focus on things from Winter’s perspective. Show how she feels about watching Ironwood grow more and more insane. Perhaps likening it to growing up under Jacques.  Have a scene where the Ace-Ops (mostly Marrow) voice their concerns on how the General is acting, but then Winter (and Harriet) tells them to stow it and remind them of their duties as soldiers of Atlas. They are the only ones the General can trust. They have to believe in him.  

When Ironwood brings up bombing Mantle to lure out Penny THEN have Winter confront him, but not with hostility. She talks to him privately, giving her concerns and saying that she has followed him for years. She looks up to and believes in him before all others and would even give her life if he asked, but bombing Mantle is too much. This isn’t about the safety of the people anymore, this is outright coercion and bullying for the sake of his ego. His fear is controlling him. This is something Salem would do. 

Ironwood would be enraged at this claim and yell at Winter about how all he’s done is try to protect everyone but they keep throwing it back in his face. Have him drop his Semblance for the first time since Salem arrived and have him break down, saying that he doesn’t know what to do anymore. 

Make his Semblance an actual plot point and not just something they threw in for the hell of it. Winter and Clover would be the only one’s that knew about it. James keeps it on so he doesn’t have to FEEL anything. He thinks he needs to be focused and unfeeling to do his job and defeat Salem, but Winter tells him that that is wrong and it’s not a sin to feel compassion and fear. He knew that once.

Winter could tell him that they can find a way to fix this along with Ruby and the others. Salem is gone for the moment, they have time. He doesn’t have to do this. They can find away to save the people. He can still go back to the person that he was. The general she respected (and possibly loved at one point). 

Ironwood reactivates his Semblance and says there is no going back. If Winter won’t stand with him, than he has no more use for her. He then orders the Ace-Ops to throw her in a cell next to Jacques. 

In jail, Winter could have an actual conversation with her father, blaming him for destroying their family and driving her away. Jacques can make a comment on how Ironwood betrayed her and threw her in jail, so they are alike and that she is no better because she saw the monster he was becoming and did nothing about it. 

Winter would come to terms with this and admit that yes, she is guilty just like Ironwood but her sitting in this jail cell right now means its not too late to atone. She saw him when he was vulnerable, she knows he’s struggling, and she can still save him. 

Tweak a couple of things. Elm saves Marrow from getting shot instead of Winter since she’s in jail and THEY meet up with Qrow and Robyn, and also have Harriet and Vine confront the kids instead of Ironwood going there himself when he finds out RWBYP went to the vault. Now we come to the solo fight between Winter and Ironwood.

Ironwood attempts to stop RWBY from using the staff, but is stopped by Winter. He orders her to get out of the way, but she says she can’t. He asks why she cares about Mantle so much, but she says this isn’t about just Mantle or even Atlas anymore.

Ironwood taught her the value of protecting others. No matter what, as a soldier her true duty is to the people, not her rank. Ironwood has lost his way, he’s let fear control him. He’s teetering on the edge, but she refuses to let him fall. Her respect and love for him won’t let her. 

The girls have saved Mantle and Atlas from Salem, now she has to save Ironwood from himself. If he does what he says he’s going to do and bombs Mantle, there will be no going back. He will become the monster that everyone says he is. 

Ironwood says he has accepted this and tells her one last time to stand aside, Winter grabs her weapons and says she won’t as her eyes get misty. Ironwood sheds a tear and they both start to fight. 

However, Winter isn’t trying to kill Ironwood. She’s fighting strategically in order to break his Aura. If she breaks his aura his semblance stops and she can finally talk to him again. So for the most part he’s pushing her back, yelling at her for betraying him like everyone else. 

Winter says she’s fighting because she’s the only person that still believes in him. If she turns her back on him now she wouldn’t be able to call herself a soldier of Atlas, or his friend. 

Winter barely manages to win the fight, no Maiden Power needed and Ironwood starts to come to terms with everything he’s done. He’s still focused on completing his mission, but Winter tells him that he doesn’t have to fight anymore. The mission is over. They’re done. 

Before the two can fully reconcile, Salem shows up and mortally wounds Ironwood right in front of Winter, thanking him for doing her job for her. An enraged Winter tries to fight Salem, but is easily defeated. 

Right before Salem can kill her, Winter receives the Maiden power from Penny and pushes Salem back. Winter tries to attack in retaliation, but Ironwood tells her that she needs to go through the portal. If Salem takes her power then everything will be for nothing. He then reminds her that her obligation is to the people, just like she told him during their fight. 

With tears in her eyes, Winter flies into the portal and comes in as the world is collapsing. She tries to catch Weiss, but fails and goes through the portal to Vacuo, cursing Cinder on her way through. 

Ironwood watches as Cinder gives both relics to Salem. Cinder says its checkmate, but Ironwood says that as long as Winter and the others are alive, Salem won’t win. He then dies with a smile on his face as Atlas falls. 

In Vacuo, Winter cries as she thinks of the lost lives of her sister and Ironwood. But she has to keep going. She is now the protector of both Mantle and Atlas. 

Got a bit messy at the end there, but for the most part that’s one way they could have handled the Winter/Ironwood story. Winter stands up to him, but Ironwood isn’t fully treated like a villain and gets SOME form of redemption before he’s tragically cut down. 

[bmblboop]

The big thing that people tend to miss about the Ace Ops is that they are, in practice, just as Cinder said; puppets. They’re James’s status symbols, a team of charming badasses to inspire potential recruits and living weapons to strike out at dissidents. The tragedy of Clover’s death was that he didn’t even die his own man. His personal pride and morals never mattered to him, only his orders.

I may have to rewatch, but I don't recall Cinder referring to the Ace Ops as puppets - only Penny.

But I strongly agree that they are touted as the best of the best - the special operatives that work directly under the General must be one of the most coveted positions in the army. Given how much they take RWBYJNR under their wing in Volume 7, I wouldn't be surprised if they inspired other Atlas students into joining the military with their charm and skills. As for living weapons, basically confirmed within the first two episodes. "Ironwood's Personal Attack Dogs" according to Mantle-Resident and Robyn-sympathizer Forest, and by Pietro's line "What are the ACE-OPs even doing down here in Mantle? ", implying they don't usually frequent the lower city. (Ace Ops appearance in v7c1 even more sus bc they didn't even aid the grimm attack, just waiting until their targets - the kids defending the citizens bc Ironwood won't fix their wall - let their guard down.)

Clover's death is controversial for many things, and sometimes I feel as though walking-on-eggshells with this topic, but here goes:

Clover chose to follow Ironwoods orders to the letter. In doing so, he neglected to recapture Tyrian once he got loose and began causing trouble for him and Qrow. Because the Orders From The General come before everything else - morals, personal feelings, some would argue loGic - Clover chose to continue pursuing Qrow and was overpowered.

"I trust James with my life. I wanted to trust you." He says, shortly before being backstabbed by the prisoner he ignored in favor of capturing a new one.

Clover died because he was blindly following orders, but I would argue he died his own man - he didn't defend Ironwood or his orders with his final breath. Instead he wished Qrow luck in making sure James took the fall. (Or just wished him luck in general, since Qrow didn't end up playing a huge role fighting Ironwood directly, regardless it's a sweet sentiment). He still had morals and beliefs, but they would never overpower his loyalty - much to his tragic end. Winter was in a very similar spot in Volume 7 - "We must acknowledge our personal feelings" but not follow them if they contradict the General’s orders. Instead, rationalize that James knows best and believe he is right.

Fortunately for Winter and the rest of Clover's team, they came to see that Ironwood was no longer clear-headed enough to be trusted, and so, started to defy him.

[caeloservare]

What do you think of Clover, Qrow, and Ironwood as a ship?

// Head empty, only softs ;w;

It brings together and possibly makes much happier three characters I happen to really like, so I have problem debating whether I'd give it A or A+, if I was to rate it XD Guess I'm trying to say I LOVE IT!

They're all different, but same time getting these three together would give each two a good buffer in between. Probably with being it Clover 90% of the time with his lovely personality, playfulness but also understanding of duty combo, but I'm sure they all would take the mediator role depending on the situation. James knows both of them for the longest time and Qrow can navigate through worst breakdowns. Or at least I think so. Collectively they sure have more issues than hair on their heads, but same time they could learn to support each other the way each of them needs and slowly work it out and move on. And I think that with all the experienced trauma, they really could use triple cuddles. (Especially Clover. Hold him tight and never let go, because he's worth it.)

I don't really have an idea how they would get together, at least thinking about muses of rpers I know and my James. To be honest, I think James would be awful roadblock there, but I remember @courtclover mentioning that Clover is basically the same with "oh no, they're in love, I better back off and let them be happy". Even assuming the almost died instead of plain dead scenario and peppering different Fall of Atlas events, it would be so much luggage to work through, I just don't know how they'd manage to get together. And it's a shame, because they could be so good! ;A;

I'd actually like to try writing this ship one day, in rp or even just a fanfic since I'm rather shy about asking people for ships heh ;; I just think they're neat-