#THIS is actually where queerbaiting goes too far

[hoss-bonaventure]

WHY IS THIS THEIR DEFAULT STANDING POSITION?!😭😭

[unsaidace]

I’m seeing a hell of a lot of gatekeeping in the fandom lately, people not wanting Sterek/Destiel/Johnlock shippers to watch our show for Buddie or Bi!Buck. Besties…where do you think half of us started? I was a Sterek, Destiel, Johnlock and Merthur shipper long before I was a Buddie shipper. I’m not being funny, but I thought more eyes on our silly little weewoo show was a good thing? It boosts ratings for us, and it gives those who’ve had shitty queer ship experiences (looking at you and your queerbait-y bullshit specifically, Supernatural) a chance to enjoy a well written, strong queer ship that actually stands a chance of going canon. It’s a win for everyone. And even if Buddie never goes canon, we already have another canon queer ship to enjoy in HenRen.

I’ve been in all the fandoms that were painfully disappointed by shoddy writing and obvious queerbaiting. I remember that last season of Supernatural all too fucking well. That’s why, as far as I’m concerned, anyone who wants to come into our fandom and truly appreciate our show is welcome on my blog. This is a safe space for all.

[wixiany]

I've been reading through the byler tag a lot in the last two days. One thing that really makes me stop is Mike and what his sexuality could be. On one hand, there is his whole relationship with El, then there is always the possibility of bisexuality. But what I've read in the tag and the byler master slides and now fully believe is that Mike is actually gay but heavily repressing it all. If it proves to be true, then Mike will be the best portrayal of comphet I have ever seen in media. And even if it is not confirmed, in my eyes, it is clearly there.

You could argue that it is just my interpretation, and that is fine. But for some context why I relate so much and think the comphet is so obvious: I grew up in a tiny town, in a country where nobody talked much about lgbt stuff as I was growing up. My parents never told me about it. I had no idea liking women was an option. I figured out I was a lesbian when I was 19. And the thing is, I have always had a crush on some guy. I picked the first one in kindergarten and then had one all the time. But in retrospect, I can now recognize signs that I always liked women more. But I simply didn't understand it. Every girl around me was getting boyfriends, talking about boys and crushes, so I always had one too. But to be fair, I did kind of like those boys. They were smart and funny and nice to talk to. Some I never talked to more than once. I was a kid. I didn't even think about stuff like kissing and such. Until the intimacy became a real option and I panicked, but more to that later.

Here, I think of Mike and El. I'm sure others have explained it better than me. She's there, he helps her. He cares about her, he thinks it could be love. She is the one who usually initiates and he goes with it. It's what's expected of him. And he might have been excited at first, which is perfect comphet to me. That's comphet. You are so brainwashed by everything you've been seeing your entire life that you think that's it. But then Mike gets a bit older, the relationship gets more demanding, more intimate (I'm not sexualizing them, you know what I mean) and suddenly we see him getting all stiff with the kisses. I've been through this too, when I was still figuring myself out. I went on a couple of dates with this guy and when we hugged it didn't feel right. When he asked to hold hands, I did, because I thought that after a month of chatting and three dates that was something you should do. And when he wanted to kiss me on the second and the third date, I couldn't. I literally said a quick goodbye and fled to my car. That day I texted him I just didn't feel the same and to stop going out, but inside I finally knew that I was never going to be comfortable doing anything like that with a guy. But it took me 19 long years to figure that out because of comphet.

So no, I wouldn't say that it's far-fetched to think that Mike and El were just a childhood romance that was never going to last. You grow up and you change, find yourself. Maybe I'm projecting and totally wrong, but if you struggled with comphet, I would guarantee that you can see yourself reflected in Mike. Not to mention the way he treated Will after he arrived in Cali. It was very odd to his character. Unless you look at it with a similar lense. He isn't ready to accept who he is. For plethora of reasons. It is definitely a narrative choice to have him acting like that.

I would say that a casual viewer would not really pick up on this stuff, but a queer viewer? Oh, we do. It actually makes me tear up reading some other theories and such because to me, it is there. That comphet, that inner struggle with accepting who you are versus who you are supposed to be, what your parents and friends expect you to be.

Or it's queerbait and I'm reading too much into this. It's late, idk.

[alarrytale]

I fear too that Harry and Louis might never be able to CO due to image clauses from X Factor. But there have been people from X Factor who have CO and have said that they were pressed into the closet, but they're not near as famous. Maybe it's different for Harry and Louis as Sony was so involved in their closeting and they might want to cover their own back. When Harry started his solo career and recorded Medicine there were brief syndicated articles saying that he was CO as bisexual with the song. They weren't around long but it made me wonder if he had planned on CO as bisexual at the beginning of his solo career and then changed his mind or something came up. There was that stuff with Nick Grimshaw. Like the tabloids actually hinting at them being together. They were everywhere in the tabloids. Harry releasing Lights Up on National CO day. I'm just wondering. Could that all have still happened if there was an image clause that they could never CO. Unless it's something along the lines of them not being able to speak about it. I agree with you that a lot of bargaining goes on. Like Harry doing DWD so he can do MP. But Holivia did so much damage to his image. I have wondered if Harry is on purposely ruining his image in hopes that Sony allows him to CO. Because I think that would be better for his image. If the queerbaiting stuff gets too much then maybe they'll have to let him out. On the other hand he could go even deeper into the closet and try harder to make his pr relationships look real, which I fear too. If he knew that he couldn't CO until the end of his career then wouldn't he have stayed deep in the closet like Louis?

Hi, anon!

I do think it's different with H and L. Times were different back then. Yes, other txf contestants have since come out (or were out on the show). Christopher Maloney for example. They weren't marketed as heartthrobs though and weren't as young as H and L were. The image portrayals were very different, because H and L needed fangirls to fawn over them and crush on them.

I don't think H has ever been close to come out as bisexual (he's denied that before). If he comes out i don't think he wants to lie further. Hinting about boys (while also mentioning girls) in Medicine is how far he's allowed to go (gay wise). Harry and Nick were mutual promo. It was a pr relationship where they sold you friendship and not romance. Nick needed promo to get listeners as he started his job at bbc. Harry's fans were his exact target group. People listened to him on the radio because he told stories about his friendship with Harry. Nick is gay, so tabloids speculated abut them to make tabloid fodder. Nick was also a judge on txf.

I don't know where they'll go from here. How they'll manage H's image. If they push him back in or let him more out. We'll see. If he knew he wouldn't be able to come out before his career is over, i'm not sure it would look much different? I don't think Harry is someone who'd be able to stay deep in a closet. I think Louis manages that somewhat better. Harry would be deeply unhappy and needs freedom and to be allowed to be himself. He's pushed for that for years and he's been allowed more and more to do so. Hence 'the last two years is the happiest i've ever been' speech. But for him to be even more free, more gay, more himself he's being pushed harder to stunt for the hets. So maybe that's where we're heading. Going to extremes, maybe we'll get a full on gay Harry album and he'd have to get engaged in order to do so? It's push and pull every time.

[daisybrained]

I really try not to think too much about the confession scene if I’m being honest. I only watched it the one time and I’ve never gone back to it to rewatch. It’s such a confusing thing for me. I was excited to hear him say he loved her, like I knew it was coming, but then when it happened it felt So. Off. It just wasn’t quite right, somehow. And I couldn’t tell if it was Intentionally Weird or if it was the acting or the writing or what. Like… why was Mike not more emotional? I know it’s not because Finn has become a bad actor overnight or whatever people were saying, that’s insane. If they’d wanted him more emotional, they would have had him do it that way and used those takes instead. It can’t be that he just can’t cry, because he literally is crying five minutes later when he’s begging her to wake up.

And the way it’s written is off too, somehow, and again I don’t know if it’s intentional or not! It’s like, half love confession, half pep talk, which I kind of get because she needs to Fight! or whatever (and oh my god I cringe just thinking about that bit) but it just felt so. Kind of like how milk tastes right before it goes off. And other people have mentioned the framing and blocking too, like having Will be Right There and even cutting to reaction shots of him and Jonathan at one point is such an odd choice if it’s meant to be a romantic moment between Mike and El. That’s not something I thought of while watching it, but it’s one of those “you didn’t notice it, but your brain did” things where you notice that something’s off in the back of your mind and it unsettles you, but you can’t pinpoint what has unsettled you until someone points it out later. (Kind of like Will’s dark possessed eyes in s2.)

And talking about the day they found her and actually cutting to the flashback? The juxtaposition of what he’s saying and what is happening on screen is so WEIRD! He is clearly not falling in love with her at first sight in the flashback, we can see his confused apprehensive look with our own eyeballs, but that is what he’s telling us happened! I know some people think the juxtaposition is intentional, and that may be the case, but why would they have him say it only to backtrack and go “nevermind that was bullshit” in the next season? Why would they have such a big climactic moment intentionally fall flat! I don’t understand!

I dunno. It’s weird. Before volume 2, I had no real inkling that byler would ever become canon; I just wasn’t thinking that far ahead. I was invested in Mike and El’s relationship. Byler felt absurd to me on a canon level (enjoyable in fic but not realistic), and I know people are annoyed by this, but it was because of how I’ve seen close relationships between two men handled terribly onscreen before. I’ve been in many fandoms with clear, calculated queerbaiting and every time, the fandom thinks, this one will be different. This will be the one that transcends. And it just never is. It’s like Lucy with the football. That’s irritating to hear, I know, I’m not trying to harsh anyone’s vibe; this one is fundamentally different because Will is explicitly in love with Mike, but for me personally, that just confuses the issue more than clarifying it like it does for some people.

I know I’m just rehashing stuff that people have already dissected and explained and theorized about, I’m just trying to get all my thoughts about the confession in particular into words and why I’m still so uncomfortable with it and confused by it.

[incarnateirony]

today a friend googled the demographics of NOLA and Atlanta and really let it set in what I meant about it being a different, much less white and privileged world than this pillow cushioned fandom is used to.

Vancouver 78% white

NOLA 59% black and 33% white

ATL almost 50% black and 40% white

And those NOLA numbers are deceptive. A good portion of the population that answers "white" on the census are lighter blend creole people, or non-anglo french descendents. Realistically, the only anglo fuckers there are a small minority of annoying yuppie transplants that move there thinking it's just a fun party town and get their ohio vibes all over the place.

And yeah. it influences culture and how people think, act, and react. When cultures have had to pull each other up to survive, to stay free, when they predate the country itself--your white colonizer mindset is what gets your shit pushed in IRL if you try it. They don't take white nonsense.

And this fandom is the triple definition of White Noise. you're walking into a world of self made people fighting up against oppression for centuries, not handed to them on generational platters and privilege that white communities get.

your Quirky Fun Liberal Cities like "Keep austin/portland weird" look like utter jackasses in actual like. how shit gets handled compared to, say, houston even, much less nola or atlanta.

sorry to break it to this precious white fandom, even as another white person who had to break my bullshit down ages ago, but you aren't special. Your opinions don't dictate reality. And most of all the black gay pagan south does not give a FUCK if you consider an MLM pairing going mainstream "inappropriate." they catch Kelios concern trolling that shit they're gonna see how far they can take porn on network tv just to piss you entitled assholes off.

yeah. that goes for all of you. shrill queerbait shriekers that were attacking our own allies in the room included just as much as the wincels. If you wanna see how we do it, how about you like. come do your shit without a keyboard and a few thousand miles protecting you.

oh right. none of you are that brave. fuckin marshmallows. pat still wont even bet another 5k after his last fail but knows his precious whiteness and keyboard will protect him from getting his spine ripped out.

you wanna know why nobody here accomplishes anything anymore, it's because you're too busy fixing your egos behind keyboards but don't have the compunction to get up and actually do something to get what you fucking want. That's it. That's the difference. Down south, the real south, the actual Dirty South, not ivory lib castles like Austin and their suburbs fed conservative garbage via nexstar for years; you get up and help move the log. If you get in the way, the motherfuckers with the log will smash your ribs and keep going through you. It's that simple. nobody cares about your white fragility bubble, pat. nobody cares if you clicked and ordered 5 dollars to a food bank to make yourself feel better as a white savior. We care if you get up and bring the fucking food to people. We care if you help advocate for systems where it isnt as needed, and show up and meetings and raise your voice and cuss if you've fucking got to, and riot if you've fucking got to, and get arrested if you fucking got to.

nexstar's conservative shit flooding white liberal cities like austin is how you get jackasses like kelios being so up her ass she unironically screams Make Supernatural Great Again, or joined the Silent Majority, and demands staying in "safe, old ways". and fuckin white libs at a core, a lot of them are like this. They're conservatives in a mask. 2p0 too and how they go into DM to argue incest should be allowed irl or try to compare it to the lgbtq struggle--active enemy against progressives, but this fandom sucks his dick of raw, uninformed opinion anyway. Beneath the skin, these agendas are all driven by political skews informing their opinions, and this is ripping open faux white liberalism and gutting it like a piggylecki.

i ain't afraid to get arrested for the right cause. Hell it goes viral enough on why they'll pay my bail. you guys though, you're afraid to even step outside your houses. Welcome to Nola. Buckle up.

like in my life i've put a few dudes in the dirt in self defense, and you really gonna try to act like a tough shit online when you guys won't even put your money where your mouth is in a bet. Because you goddamn know. there's a reason taw had all of you running pissing your pants for years and then he met me and it was his turn to piss and run. only one person ended up updated to "armed and dangerous" on his doxxing site despite being a Big Scawwy Miwitary Man. catch a clue. you ain't any better than him, 2p0

And eventually, your followers will notice that for alllll the subtweeting you do, you magically missed the 20 chances to take up that bet if you're half as confident as you pretend.

Yeah guys, why won't he?

[gracerings]

It seems unfair for M&W shippers to claim they were queerbaited when the show has down nothing to make viewers believe M&W would be canon? We can talk about ‘looks’ and ‘hidden meaning’ but these are things which are completely subjective and liable to personal bias. As far as a narrative standpoint goes, M&E have always been presented as a canon ship where feelings are mutually reciprocated on both ends. Mike clearly loves them both and I suppose that in itself was enough to give M&W shippers reason to believe it was open to interpretation (understandable.) However there’s a difference between our own interpretation and what the show has presented. Reading into the subtext of ‘looks’ has always been a thing in fandom but due to it’s inherent bias has always been more of a headcanon phenomenon rather than actually indicative of canon. That being said, Mike being in love with El has never been contrived or forced but rather a natural narrative progression from what was already an established focal point (whether or not people like or hate it). The show has been pretty straightforward in establishing Mike and El as a love story and Mike caring for Will as his best friend. Again, people are free to ship them and believe they are secretly in love but to act as if the show has queerbaited them is definitely a reach.

I mean yeah obviously I agree. I don’t really want to dunk too much on m/w shippers because so many of them strike me as very young, but whatever byl/er is it’s not queerbaiting. will is clearly gay and yeah it was kinda disappointing that he didn’t get to fully explicitly come out this season but I have no doubt he will next season. that in itself makes it NOT queerbait. there’s nothing in the show indicating that mike ever reciprocated will’s feelings in a romantic way, but I’ve seen the most outlandish and insane reaches so obviously people will believe whatever they want no matter what. mileven has been a major driving emotional force of the narrative since the beginning, for people to think they would just.. get rid of it in the second to last season is confusing to me tbh.

[clericbyers]

I have a lot of thoughts about how modern fandom engages with media through “shipping” and creates these pockets within the community centered around a particular romantic relationship between characters and how fandom identity is shaped by which pocket you identify with , and how this concept was shaped by the idea of an ‘otp’ and the increasing amount of relevance of headcanons becoming “canon” within these communities to detach from any possible disappointing directions the original media goes , said disappointing directions often being the romantic relation between two characters — and in my experience, often being a queer romance because of how much queerbaiting (actual queerbaiting not the fandomized version where you cry queerbait if your two fave characters don’t kiss at the end) is embedded in the marketing ploys of media.

romance is very enticing to those who desire it and it is easy to become attached to a budding romance between two characters. romance novellas exist, heck we have jane austen novels that get movie/show remakes every few years because love is exciting and joyful and painful and emotional and addicting to care about. i do not begrudge anyone for enjoying a particular media because the relationships between characters grabs their attention—especially if they feel as if such a relationship is not obtainable for themselves. but this idea of canon within fanon, this idea that there can only be one true pairing, is so poisonous and dilutes community with strife and centers said strife over everything else.

though talk about shipping exists outside the online world of fandom, I do feel it more prevalently within fandom and find it to be far more destructive there, too. for example, I have friends irl and online who also play ffxiv. I ship my main character with an NPC and write about it. They could care LESS about that stuff and really don’t find shipping all that fun but that doesn’t mean mine OR their experience and emotional connection to the game is lesser or better. I know I’m prone to find romance in media because I’m a sappy little romantic—and it’s fun to imagine my favorite characters being happy in a way I haven’t felt in years. But I didn’t start playing the game for shipping purposes. I didn’t start watching ST for shipping. I didn’t start reading comics for ships. But once I engage within the fandom, suddenly the ships mean everything. I have to make it clear what I ship and don’t ship because fandom identity is now hinged on that. I’ve been blocked by people on twitter for shipping NPCs with my ffxiv main character, and I’m guilty myself when I was younger for blocking people based on ships.

I just think that while it is frustrating to see how fandom aligns it’s identity on ships, the possible reasoning why shouldn’t be lost in the frustration of seeing nothing but. Especially when compared to irl, that’s not as much of a big deal. (And when I say irl I mean irl that doesn’t engage in online fandom bc you can talk irl with people who engage with online fandom and they still could be centered on shipping.)

[groundramon]

🔥🔥🔥

SHIT I FORGOT TO RESPOND TO THIS

but here’s today’s hot take: majority group people can have opinions on things that they’re the majority/oppressors of, BUT their opinions should not be the basis of legal or moral obligation.

For example, I dislike mint.  Does that mean I think everyone should dislike mint?  While I wish they would so I wouldn’t have to smell it because everyone thinks its a good smell and doesn’t consider that others cant stand it, no, I don’t think everyone should dislike mint.  Do I think mint should be illegal?  No, of course not.  I wish others were more considerate of being around me irl due to my repulsion to the smell of mint, but otherwise, my dislike of mint is purely of opinion and I don’t have any right to say someone is a bad person for disliking mint.

Cis people can have opinions on trans issues, truscum discourse, ect.  HOWEVER, the second they make a truscum-oriented blog, make fun of tucutes, use the wrong pronouns for someone because they dont think they’re “trans enough”, ect, they have stepped over the line.  This includes cis lgbt people btw, not just cishets.  You can think that transtrending is a real thing, but you’re not allowed to tell people who ID as trans whether or not you think they’re trans, directly or indirectly.  You may have opinions and observations, but otherwise, this is OUR debate, not yours.  Your job is to support ALL trans people in order to be a good ally.  If you aren’t willing to do that, don’t call yourself an ally.  It’s that simple.

Similarly, I (as a white person) can have opinions and observations on racial issues, racial microaggressions, ect.  However, it isn’t my place to say that my observations are inherently true and that my opinion should be considered alongside the opinions of POC.  I can reinforce what other POC say, but if some POC say something is wrong and others say something is fine, I should generally take to heart the idea that it’s wrong just to be safe.

Compassion is really key in these situations, I feel like?  It’s ALWAYS better to try and avoid offending people to the best of your abilities.  I get where that “you’ll offend everyone these days” mentality comes from but for fuck’s sake, shouldn’t you at least make an ATTEMPT to offend as few people as possible?

Compassion is especially key in issues that you’re a minority group in but not the minority group being affected (IE, antiblackness as a non-black person of color, homophobia as a non-sga aspec person, ect) or in discussions that affect multiple groups (IE ace discourse).  But ultimately speaking, there are times when you’ll help others by keeping your opinions to yourself.  Again, it’s an issue of compassion, not of inherent worth - but if you give your opinion on these important issues when it doesn’t affect you and hurts others, well that’s pretty mean, and I think being pretty mean is pretty worthless.

Antiblackness amongst people of color is none of my concern.  I only need to support black people and all people of color.

I need to be careful what I say on homophobia because, as an acearo trans person, I know less about it than someone who has personally experienced it.  Because of the intertwining of transphobia and homophobia I do know more than I do about racism, but I try to be open to new arguments since I don’t truly know as well as others.

(Tbh this was gonna start as a semi-SU critical thing, but it was more of a “I cant defend SU from any allegations of racism because its just not my place”, but it turned into this instead but I still stand by that.  I WILL say tho that nothing the show has ever done is transphobic and I’m HIGHLY skeptic of the homophobia card since Rebecca is literally bisexual and nonbinary.  But my point is I can’t speak on racism, and I feel like neither can Rebecca since she’s not a person of color to my knowledge, so I hope if there’s anything wrong with the characters of color in SU, Rebecca can better round them out in the future.)

[sophiapathic]

Sk8: The Infinity - A Take on Love

Because my six unfinished assignments can wait until I throw this into the void, scream for five hours and after my voice gets hoarse, I resort to watching the beach episode on loop until next Saturday.

This was entirely sparked by the recap episode, which really pressed the reak havoc and theorize button in my brain. I am truly losing my grip on reality. Help. I apologize in advance, creatures of Tumblr. 

Me right now:

Anyways... 

I saw people mention here and there screaming that “we need canon relationships and they will get trust issues if a romance isn’t confirmed by the end of the series”. I think that mindset is harmful to have in this case. You can’t really avoid being disappointed if you get into the series expecting it to deliver on your wishes of gay romances. So, this might be controversial, but stay with me please. The anime and manga are both confirmed to be based primarily about the characters themselves and of course the sport -skating. I was hoping to take a closer look at what the series intends to do with certain dynamics and relationships according to yours truly. I also want explain my reasoning behind it not being queerbaiting, though it being inherently queer-coded, through the current lense of the canon.

Sk8: The Infinity is unquestionably a love story.

We need to state the genres this series is in, because some of us tend to forget. It is in fact not a shounen-ai, not a yaoi, not a romance, not even a josei. Say it with me it is a series in: COMEDY and SPORTS.

(Source is the official US Sk8 website.) The spotlight is udoubtedly on skating and what it means. Another important highlight of the show is how the definition of the sport relates to the characters, and how vastly different they are from what we expect. For example, when we see Shadow first, we pigeonhole him into this vulgar indecent rock and roll persona, only to find out later that he is actually a stweetheart at a flower shop. Joe is another very good case study. When we first see him we think of him as a womanizer muscle-head, later we find out he has a heart of gold and is very emotionally intelligent. We’re also quick to judge Miya as the cold, unfeeling prodigy then we discover how lonely and normal he is on the inside. And so on and so on. 

The show continues to defy our expectations of what each character should be like. In a way it is about breaking the conventional stereotypical roles we subconsciously assign to certain looks. We see that even in anime, multifaceted characters can exist without distrupting or damaging the delicate dynamics of a traditional sports anime. We successfully established the second focal point of the series as disproving stereotypes and presenting strong, diverse and unexpected personalities.

How about the defition of skating? What does it mean in the context of Sk8: The Infinity then? Where does a love story come into the picture? Skating is repeatedly described as a ritual of love within the anime, an idea that our villian, Ad*m, is obessed with. In a sense skating is a language of love canonically.

Then skating itself is love. Throughout the series we see varied styles of skating therefore different ways of expressing love, affection. We get to experience several metaphorical ways of “being in love” through characters skating with each other. Each dynamic shows us a type of love. Healthy, disfunctional, outright abusive. 

The way Reiki teaches Langa to skate can be interpreted as a direct metaphor for someone learning to love again after losing a person close to them. Langa’s father has died and Reiki literally brings him out of his shell again. It can also be interpreted as a queer kid’s experience of a world of romance that feels similar to his previous one, that being snowboarding, yet it still being new and different. Skateboarding. When due to Reiki Langa’s potential is discovered and his hunger for more and more develops, especially next to Ad*m, Reiki’s main frustration stems from them not being well-matched or on equal footing anymore. He feels like he cannot give Langa what he needs anymore. Which would obviously go againts the literal description of a healthy romance. Two people with mutual respect who both bring equal assets to the table. He feels like he needs to catch-up to be with Langa again. The only thing he doesn’t consider is Langa’s deep appreciation of him and the fact that literally he was the one who helped Langa experince the feeling of love again.

Kojiro and Kaoru’s relationships, to me, is very much representative of two people  wanting to be in each other’s presence, but due to their different language of love, miscommunicating horribly. Them bantering and insulting each other is the only way they know what to do with the other. The only way they can ensure the other’s attention and eyes are on them. This has worked so far. They are literal opposites, but both have a very clear definition of their form of love. To Joe skating, or love itself, is about the feeling and going with the flow. Being spontaneous. Whereas for Cherry, every move needs to be calculated and executed perfectly in order to be “efficient”. Their frustration comes from both wanting different things from the other, but not communicating their need properly. Despite this, they stick together due to a magnetic pull they obviously feel towards the other. The attraction is there, the trust is there, they are even well-matched in skill as we see them neck-to-neck constantly. They could give each other what the other wants. Only if they could express themselves well... This is why Joe pushes Reiki towards reconciling with Langa. he wants them to not fall into the same trap of not stating their  needs and thoughts properly.

Now Ad*m and Langa are obviously problematic and I don’t really want to have to explain, honestly guys. I really don’t  (since I have trauma regarding this subject), but I need to go into this a little bit. This is a textbook toxic predatory relationship. Where the older, twisted, damaged person, has an obsession with a young, outstading child. He wants to lead him into “Paradise” and show his “Eve” what love is really about. (Ain’t that disgusting you guys...) His form of love is inflicting pain, so I really can’t imagine a scenario where he and his “Eve” live happily ever after and everything is fine and dandy. He needs someone who he can torture. He literally is looking for someone who can handle his way of expressing affection, his “love hug”, who has the same type of crazy eyes for adrenaline and danger. His Eve. In his distorted mind, this all makes sense and Langa is that someone he was looking for thoughout the years. The problem is, he disregards Langa’s side where the relationship becomes problematic.

Cherry and Ad*m during their younger years seems to be a very innocent infatuation on Kaoru’s end. It is a one-sided relationship where someone is in love with the idea of a person long gone. They were discovering the world of skating, or the world of love together with Ad*m taking the lead. Cherry immediately became infatuated with him, wanted to learn his love language, wanted to be at the same level he was. It probably started very innocent. At first, Ad*m being gentle, because that’s how Tadashi was with him too, then after whatever happened between those two, Ad*m, disappointed in the way of love, or skating, Tadashi showed him, returned to what his aunts taught him. Maybe after injuring Kaoru with the “love hug”, therefore eliminating him from being his potential partner, started looking for his “Eve”, gradually became more agressive in love as in skating. Kaoru was distraught and wanted the Ad*m he originally learned love from back. Holding out some hope even years after. Trained to get used to his “love hug”, to literally condition himself to be able to get close to him. Ad*m, however showed Cherry brutally that he truly cannot handle his way of love.

Ad*m and Tadashi. *sighs* As of this post, I don’t really have enough information to give you a good overview of what I see this relationship representing. As far as I can tell Ad*m was abused horribly and to ease the pain and make him forget, Tadashi showed his another way of expressing affection. Skating or love. Basically a first love gone horrible bad, scarring an already abused child and turning them into a monster. Tadashi himself reinstates this during one of the episodes. It was his fault that Ad*m turned out the way he did. Their love slowly became strongly abusive throughout the years. Tadashi is stuck in it because he feels like he deserves it. This is a metaphor for  dangers of an emotionally and physically abusive relationship, where one person feels responsible and the other is using power. Tadashi’s guilt keeps him next to his master and he even endures abuse, now he is trying to break out and show Ad*m he messed up and I think this could potentially be a good representation of how difficult that process truly is. 

As far as Reiki’s, Miya’s, Shadow’s skating goes. Their main arc relating to love is first and foremost learning to accept themselves and aprecciating their uniqe way and style of skating. Only after can they become people who can truly be accomplished in love/skating (in Miya’s case I’m obviously talking about platonic feelings). Each of them had a preconception of their persona in love/skating, which gets questioned heavily throughout the series. Miya gets defeated, Shadow’s soft side gets discovered, Reiki... well. I get sad. :c Even though he taught someone to love again, to appreciate life again, he ended up discovering how dissatisfied he truly is with himself... These three all need to learn to love every aspect of themselves to reach fulfillment and to really experience healthy human relationships.

Sk8: The Infinity is unquestionably a love story, without explicitly being a romance, meaning that it is a tale about love, both romantic, platonic and everything inbetween through a queer-coded lens, showing both dysfunctional, abusive and healthy relationships, ways to express emotions and even delves into self-love and the idea of nature versus nurture in the villian’s case.

That is why I, personally don’t scream for a canon couple. To me, the show gets its main point about affection and love across, without making any of these relationships explicitly stated. Not to mention that it does justice to both of its assigned genres. Comedy and Sports as well. Yeah sure, I wouldn’t complain, but I think these dynamics are more than satisfying to watch, and much deeper than bishounens wanting to bang each other, which is, in my opinion, inherently sexualized. If they want, yeah they can confirm, make it canon without forcing it to be a center storyline. Hell, I would even be happy about it. I would clap with all of us. BUT, as the series currently is, I really see it taking the other route because of the above. This way audiences who want a yaoi or ikemen going at it, won’t be disappointed with the series when they find doesn’t revolve around that, straight viewers will just find it flamboyant, and people who look for subtext and want to read between the lines will certainly do that with the amount of crumbs and hints the writers gave us. 

We don’t need outright, written in black and white gay representation in Sk8 to experience very real types of love. The queer theme is secondary to me, just like queerness is, in most people’s lives. Yeah sure, it is a big thing, but not the only attribute a person has. My life doesn’t revolve around my queerness. I rarely talk about it. If I was a main character this would be a side-arc. Just like Sk8 doesn’t revolve around the characters coming out. It’s just them living their lives and possibly being queer while doing so. If you look at it this way, it is almost normalizing attraction between same-sex people by just showing it as regular love. If you can, why not interpret it this way, so it can be a liberating experience instead of a disappointing one.

Please don’t attack me! I am fragile and this is only my opinion. c:  *crawls back into her hole*

[theravenkin]

Oooh, how about hcs for movie night with Blue and her Raven Boys from TRC please??

OMG IVE BEEN WANTING TO WRITE THIS HC FOREVER YOU HAVE NO IDEA

ok this turned out way longer than i planned, what's new

- Movie night is held every Saturday night at the Barns--so it's just the five of them

- Ronan loads up on popcorn, candy, and drinks, and drags every pillow and blanket he has into the living room for the occasion

-The first few times, Ronan insists he's too aloof to pick a movie, so blue scrolls through Declan's netflix account trying to find a movie that will appeal to everyone

-Blue suggests tick, tick...boom! and Henry doesn't object, but the rest do

-"we're not gonna suffer through a fucking musical Sargent" "okay lynch calm the entire fuck down I'm scrolling"

-Henry suggests the great british baking show, but the rest disagree on the grounds that it's movie night, not tv show night--sorry maybe another time

- Gansey and Adam get excited about don't look up, but Blue sees that Timothee Chalamet is in it, and she rejects it out of pure spite

-Henry whines about it

-"what do you have against lil timmy tim??" "everything" she won't explain what she has against him but the other boys dont disagree

-"yeah he's fucking ugly Cheng, what are you into that whole sick victorian child look?"

-"oh sorry Lynch, I thought you'd be into that, I thought you liked 'em a little scrawny"

-Ronan and Blue punch him at the same time that adam nudges the back of his head with his foot

-"hey, man, I've actually been eating three meals a day"

- gansey beams "we're really proud of you adam, thats so-"

- "yeah, Cheng, he's got abs now" (adam snorts) "wHAT LEMME SEE" "why do you wanna see his fucking abs cheng?" "ohhh, i see, it was a trap"

- blue moves on, suggests "bright star"--she doesnt even know what its about but it looks like a good period piece

-they watch the trailer and at the end Blue goes "wait he's straight??? oh that was fucking queerbaiting" and Ronan goes "there's no way john keats was attracted to women." gansey and adam sort of grunt in agreement

-henry gets excited and suggests big mouth. they tell him, again, that it's movie night not show night. he is sad again

-"oooh guys guys what about breaking bad???" "hENRY FOR THE LAST TIME"

-blue suggests red notice, which she doesn't love the idea of, but Ronan hasn't agreed to anything so far, so she's trying to appeal to him

-"ronan, cars? heists? ryan reynolds?" gansey and henry: "ryAN REYNOLDS"

-ronan makes a disgusted noise. blue sighs and moves on

- "OMIGOD GUYS VICTORIOUS!!" blue whacks henry with a shoe

- "sargent, stop fucking scrolling through the 'romantic movies' category" "lynch, if you don't tone down the piss and vinegar a few notches, we're watching bridgerton" *gasp* "in my family home??? absolutely fucking not"

-after a few more tries where everyone agrees except ronan--who seems to hate everything--blue sighs loudly and dramatically. "ronan, do you even wanna watch anything??" "uh duh" "well what do you wanna watch" "i don't care" "yOU OBVIOUSLY DO"

-before they can kill each other Adam snatches the remote out of her hands and exits out of netflix entirely. everyone protests until he switches over to disney plus

-"ugh, if we weren't using someone else's account, i'd be so against all of this" blue goes on a little rant about corporations and monopolies while ronan makes fun of her

-but then a movie starts. it's an old, old disney movie; there's whimsical orchestra music playing as the beginning credits fade in and out. Adam looks at Gansey and they share a wistful, knowing smile

-Blue looks over at Ronan and the aloofness is gone; he kinda looks sad, but also kinda looks like a little kid. his eyes are really big. he slowly gets up from where he sat beside blue on the floor and switches places with Gansey, who was sitting beside adam on the sofa. blue watches ronan, completely docile, curl up to adam; adam wraps his arms around ronan and kisses his buzzed head. by now henry has followed her eyes and he shares a look with her. but then Gansey worms his way between them, his arm around blue and offering them both some popcorn. they both look back at the couple again then settle against gansey's sides.

-the movie is alice in wonderland. Blue is pretty sure that on one of the shelves in the living room, there's a dvd of this movie; ronan must have watched it growing up. blue smiles; as she listens to the first song, "a world of my own", she thinks it fits too well.

-when the movie's over, ronan is so calm he almost seems asleep against adam's side. blue smiles sweetly at him.

-"so, fast and furious next time, then?"

-he kicks her and she laughs

-from then on, every movie night is a disney movie. ronan has a lot of them on dvd. sometimes blue catches him absentmindedly mouthing the words to the songs. sometimes her and henry join together in a karaoke version of the songs and get booed and pelted with popcorn

OMG ok im gonna have to make another one of these sometime, it was so fun. thank you so much for this ask!! :)

(also idk which book it's in but i remember at some point, ronan recalls how alice in wonderland and pygmalion were his mom's favorite movies, and they kinda became his comfort movies. also i have a hc that ronan watches like five disney movies on rotation for comfort)

[extasiswings]

heteronormativity poisoned, lol that's a great word. But you kind of feel bad for them because they clearly suffer from trauma or feelings caused by shows that did queerbait them. This is why I think that all writers need to agree to never queerbait their audience, like they have to sign a contract and if they violate that contract in the shows run they have to pay a significant fine and the show gets cancelled. Queerbaiting can be deadly, writers can't get away with it anymore, not in 2022.

I disagree. I was talking about this yesterday, that I find it extremely weird that most of the people being the loudest and most hostile about queerbaiting are people who are too young to have experienced the legitimate queerbaiting that many older fans experienced over the years (with the limited exception of S**********l folks, but I have to admit I have limited sympathy there). I understand the pain of being queerbaited because I experienced it myself, because I was old enough to be in fandom watching shows that were doing it while they were airing. When I see 18, 19 year olds insisting that they can’t trust anything because of the negative “history of queerbaiting” while they simultaneously ignore those of us who are older and saying “this is very different” I don’t know what they’re talking about or where they get off co-opting my lived experiences and using my pain and anger to justify blatant harassment of people who haven’t done anything wrong.

Also, I think it’s worth noting that creators/writers/showrunners are in an impossible position because the people who yell the most about queerbaiting are also constantly moving the goalposts about what it is. I believe it was Tim who said relatively recently something to the effect of “if we give them scenes together, we get accused of queerbaiting, if we don’t give them scenes together, we get accused of queerbaiting, we can’t win” and he’s right! Queerbaiting is and has always been first and foremost about marketing. It’s a PR strategy. Fans being able to look at something and say “there’s a potential queer interpretation here” does not mean that every single time that happens for any show, it’s queerbaiting if the show then doesn’t explore that potential. That would be ridiculous because just about anything can be interpreted as queer if you try hard enough (and I have seen many a slash ship where I’ll watch the source material and be like besties you do you but that’s literally just garden variety homoeroticism at best, at worst you’re inventing something completely). And yet, somehow we have gotten so far removed from the reality of that (which, imo goes back to the above point that the people being the most vocal about calling things queerbait are not old enough to have actually experienced it) that now the term has lost all meaning and become a catchall complaint for anything and everything from “there’s canon queer rep but it’s badly written” to “there’s canon queer rep and I don’t think it gets enough screentime” to even “XYZ didn’t play out exactly the way I think it should have.” How is anyone supposed to work with that?

I agree that shows shouldn’t queerbait in 2022. And I’ll happily criticize a show for actually doing so. But that’s not what’s happening here, it’s never been what’s happening here, and because of how much the term has become twisted I’m also not going to just take the word of a random person on Twitter about what shows are or aren’t doing either.

[handsmotif]

The Queercoding of Pinky and the Brain

This originally was just me infodumping to my friends on discord, but I decided it might be interesting to some people on here, so I polished it up and made it an actual essay lmao

To start, we’re going to break this into 2 sections -- the relationship between the mice, and Pinky’s relationship with gender, because queercoding doesn’t just mean gay!

For a 90′s show, Pinky and the Brain (and its mother show, Animaniacs) was very progressive for its time! But there were still lots of things that they couldn’t slip by censors, and thus, that’s where we have to read between the lines. And that is something I wanted to clarify here before we dive in, the actual meaning of queercoding. It’s NOT the same as queerbaiting. Queerbaiting is when the people producing certain media purposefully dangle the possibility of queer representation to lure in audiences (most prominent examples are BBC Sherlock, Riverdale, and Supernatural I GUESS? who knows abt that last one anymore), but never follow through, purely for profit. Queercoding is when media producers WANT to write in queer representation, but can’t, usually because the censors won’t let them. So, they must resort to subtext. (example: the policemen from Gravity Falls) It could also be unintentional, simply assigning certain characteristics associated with the LGBT community to characters. (example: Bugs Bunny, many Disney villains) Either way, it heavily relies on the audience picking up subtext, but whether it’s malicious or not varies, depending on the media. Bugs Bunny is an example of positive accidental queercoding, while a lot of Disney villains are negative examples.

Now, to actually discuss the gay little mice! Pinky and the Brain, whether it be intentional or not (based off comments from Maurice LaMarche, Rob Paulsen, and Tom Ruegger, signs strongly point to intentional, but it’s never been explicitly confirmed), is an example of positive queercoding.

There are many moments that I could pick out to discuss here, but we’ll start with some VERY on the nose gay metaphors. 

Remember Romy? If you don’t, that’s their actual biological son! Romy came about due to a cloning accident, where their DNA got combined and spat him out. 

There’s SO many things I could say about Romy. Every appearance he makes has an overarching gay metaphor as the plot. His first appearance in the episode Brinky (yeah it’s literally titled their ship name), it deals with his dads (WHICH I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT, he DOES call them both dad, and they do both call him their son) disapproving of the fact that he wants to leave home and not follow in their footsteps of taking over the world. Brain even goes as far as disowning him whenever he tells him, which is certainly something a lot of queer people can unfortunately relate to. Also seen a lot in this episode is Pinky and Brain arguing even more than a married couple than usual, which pushes Romy away even further. Later, when Romy eventually does leave, and Brain starts to regret chasing him away, he tries desperately to reach out to him, but Romy doesn’t want anything to do with him. They end up tracking him down to an apartment building, where Romy is now living with his human girlfriend. When questioned about their relationship, the girlfriend, named Bunny, goes off on a tangent about how people shouldn’t judge others based on labels or relationships (hello?), and that Brain needs to be more tolerant. Brain apologizes and Romy forgives him. Happy ending.

Romy’s only other appearance is in the comics. Essentially, the plot of this one is that Brain wants to become the president of the local high school’s PTA, but he needs Romy’s help to make it look like he has a normal home life. He also enlists the help of Billie, the obligatory Woman introduced to make sure Brain doesn’t look as gay as he actually is, that he has a crush on. She pretends to be his girlfriend, and Pinky pretends to be Romy’s uncle, while they make up the story that Romy’s actual mother was lost at sea. Because if the organization found out that Brain has a son with a MAN??? THINK of the controversy! Anyway, the plan works, and Brain actually manages to get elected as president. Throughout this though, Pinky gets WEIRDLY jealous that Brain keeps brushing him aside for Billie. To the point where during Brain’s inauguration, Pinky actually dresses up as the wife/mother lost at sea and storms into the room.

[ID: Comic panels of Pinky, Brain, and Romy on stage at the inauguration ceremony. Pinky busts into room wearing drag, saying, “Yoo hoo! I’m back from years lost at sea to be with my son and ungrateful husband! Narf!” He then hugs Romy, while glaring at Brain. He goes on to say, “I’ll stand by your side, even though you left me behind!” The people in the audience begin to question this, saying, “Oh great fuzzy bangs!”, “What’d she say?!”, “He deserted her to be with that other woman!”, “What kind of monster is he?!”. Brain then rips off Pinky’s wig and says, “This isn’t my wife! This isn’t even a woman! It’s my roommate, Pinky.” Pinky replies, “Well, yes... But Romy really is my son! Poit!” And Brain responds, “N-Nonsense! He’s my son!” More people in the audience angrily speak up, saying, “What’s that?”, “He lives with a guy who likes to dress up in women’s clothing and the both claim to be that kid’s father!”, “Grumble! Mutter!” /END ID]

Needless to say, this doesn’t end well for them. What we can conclude from this is that homophobia exists in the Pinky and the Brain universe, and our characters are directly affected by it.

Moving on, And-There-Was-Only-One-Bed is a pretty common occurrence with these two. Their cage is big, they have plenty of room for two beds, but? They choose to sleep together? Even in some times where this has been inconsistent and they DO have separate beds, they’re always RIGHT next to each other. (what if we put our minecraft beds together ❤😳)

I would like to mention the episode, You’ll Never Eat Food Pellets In This Town Again! This episode is interesting to say the least. Deals with a lot of the meta of the show. Anyway. In this episode, Brain has a nightmare that he’s in a loveless marriage with Billie. You know, the woman he’s supposed to have a crush on. In the end, he wakes up from the nightmare in the same bed as Pinky.

Speaking of female love interests, Pinky is seen having multiple relationships with characters of different species. Any time this is brought up by Brain, Pinky counters with Brain being too intolerant. An honorable mention with this is in Wakko’s Wish, when Pinky is with Pharfignewton, and Brain’s constant pestering about their relationship could be read as jealousy. Pinky needs a mousy date, after all!

Something else I would like to mention is in one episode (I forget what it’s called, I’ll try to look it up later and edit this), Brain is applying for a job. The employer asks Brain if he’s married, and Brain hesitates before saying he “has a roommate,” but that he’s occupied with his own things, which then cuts to a shot of Pinky applying lipstick.

Leading into part two of this essay, Pinky’s relationship with gender! Pinky has always been very gender nonconforming, and loves to wear dresses, do his makeup, and make himself look pretty. For the most part, this is played pretty straight, and not as a gag, like a lot of shows tend to do! It’s just a casual fact about him that he likes to present femininely sometimes.

This does play into their taking over the world plans pretty often, where Pinky wears drag, usually either to sneak into somewhere. Like in one of their earliest appearances on Animaniacs, Noah’s Lark, where they pose as a couple to board Noah’s, and I quote, “love boat.” After boarding, Noah says to himself, “Who am I to judge?” Okay. Yeah. Alright. Anyway.

I actually had less to say on this than I thought I did, but I wanted to make sure to emphasize that Pinky at the very least is coded as being Not Quite Cis, and that he’s played a key part in helping a lot of people watching the show figure out that they’re also Not Quite Cis. 

Wrapping this up because I’m hungry, but I want to throw in some more honorable mentions that I really do not see any type of cishet explanations for:

They literally go on a romantic date at a very fancy restaurant in Brain’s Night Off. This is played extremely casually, and the only remark from anyone that they receive is that they are “much smaller than the usual clients.”

Pinky, on at least one occasion, daydreams about him and Brain being a married couple, and wanting to be a housewife (the original malewife ❤)

There’s an issue in the comics where Pinky has a crush on another male mouse, and when Brain gets annoyed, Pinky reassures him that he thinks Brain is cute and quite the catch too

Brain attempting to kiss Pinky in the reboot??????

Brain actually did conquer the world once in the Halloween special, because Pinky made a deal with the devil for it, and thus Pinky got sent to hell! Brain actually went to hell and gave up the world to bring him back

Brain was extremely close to conquering the world once more in the Christmas special, but after reading what Pinky’s feelings for him were (nothing romantic, just Pinky basically just praising Brain for being so hardworking and an amazing mouse, and lamenting that he never gets anything for it), he gets so emotional that he sabotages himself and wishes everyone a Merry Christmas instead

TLDR; these mice are very queer and need therapy, and are probably the most heavily queercoded characters that I can think of in children’s media.

[thefirsthogokage]

i don't have an active presence on twitter, but from what i've seen, twitter fans took oliver's recents ig posts and initial enthusiasm for livetweeting the finale as hints that buddie would be set in motion, and if not, oliver was just engaging in queerbaiting; that was the context for that 'joke', just to clarify (of course it's a case of reading too much into his excitement for the finale)

Oliver wouldn't queerbait! He's seen what goes on in the fandom, and how obnoxious they get, he wouldn't do that and bring shit onto himself. And it IS still bullying an actor if he's told you to not make "jokes" like that because he doesn't understand them. Actively going against someone's wishes IS bullying.

Oliver loves the show and is perfectly fine with Buddie as long as people don't constantly throw it at him or pull the shit they have been pulling.

Leave the poor kid alone and let him be happy about his show ffs!

Like, if Oliver made posts that LOOK like Buddie stuff...listen, I don't think he understands what might look romantic or sexual between two men. I don't. I think he's an oblivious straight white boy who doesn't make the connections other people might make.

But there's the other side to this as well: I think people will also make connections that aren't there. There are some legitimate connections people are making with filming/directing choices and costuming, but some of you guys, you're expecting too much from these characters to move as as you think they are going to move far based if you just look at their personalities and the way they have been written so far.

Like, I'm starting to see certain things about Buddie, but none of them are from Oliver's acting/Buck directly. Buck has show zero sexual desire in Eddie. I've seen some stuff from Eddie - though definitely inconsistently - but there is just zero that I can see in Oliver's acting. Like, I looked for it, but it's not there. Based on that, and just how dumb Buck can be in general, things are going to take time. It's best to not have any expectations going into the finale.

And, again, don't be saying shit to actors that aren't your friends and that have repeatedly told people they don't understand and don't like the jokes you're making. Like, that's basic decorum folks.

If you want actively take out your frustration on something that makes it seem like there will be something more immediate with Buck and Eddie getting together, well look at where you're getting that message from in the first place: the trailer.

Guess who makes those trailers? The network. That's right, the 911 editing team doesn't make the trailers, the network does. So if they cut it in a way that looks like something is going to happen, but then nothing happens, that's on the NETWORK.

The creative team are playing the long game here, but a trailer is designed to get the audience interested in things to makes sure people tune in. And as I said, the network's own editing team puts that together. So the network is going to do everything they can to make you tune in, even by baiting you by making it look like something is going to happen when they KNOW it isn't.

Please people, just open your eyes to how the industry works. Please. The writers are more likely to try to give you what you want than the network, and the network just wants views. So if the network doesn't actually want something, they will keep baiting you as long as they can to make sure you tune in. However, I truly believe the creative team wants Buddie to happen, - they are throwing too many things into the details here for that not to be the case, - but that still won't necessarily be the direction the network - who over sees all - will let them go in.

Remember, this show is on FOX, the most right-wing of the cable networks. I don't let any hopes go up when it comes to them. So, I highly recommend keeping your expectations down when it comes to what you think is completely possible on that network.

Sorry for the rant and ramble, my ADHD is NOT having it with being able to focus at the moment.

[boykisserbuckley]

If your willing to put your opinion on this would you say 9-1-1 is queer baiting? Cause I feel like they are in the sense of implying buck is not straight but I’m personally in the middle with buddie because like yeah those scenes are not straight but I mean every straight person I’ve talked to seems to see them as bros? And the show has queer couples so it’s not like they are teasing there being lgbt rep. Also I completely understand if you don’t wanna give an opinion because it can cause a lot of hate so yeah...

lmao no I'm fully willing to give an opinion :)

basically ....no I don't think 911 is queerbaiting. they've had established rep from the beginning, and good rep at that, so they have a precedent already if I'm right in what I think and buddie goes canon.

in seasons 2 and 3, and yeah in this one too, every scene between Buck and Eddie has been written in a way that honestly makes it pretty easy to read either way. some people think they're romantic, some people don't. they're not pushing it to the point that it seems impossible for them to just be friends.

I've got two examples of things I'd actually say were queerbaiting, and I've watched both, so I feel confident comparing them to 911 tbh. the first (as much as I hate to mention it) is voltron—this one was less the show itself, and more Netflix actually. they announced outside of canon (on instagram, I think) that one character was gay, 7 seasons into the show, and then used pride flags and pictures of the character and his bf to advertise the new season. when we got the season, the bf was already dead and only in (1) flashback, and there was a half-hearted wedding montage at the end where the gay character got married. that was queerbaiting thru like advertising and such, and then no real follow through in the actual show, so it was really just a grab for queer attention to get viewers for their last season. 911 hasn't done that; they don't use buddie to advertise the show at all. they never have, as far as I've seen. if they had and then never followed through, I'd call that queerbaiting, but they haven't. and I don't think they're going to start now, either!

my second lil example is the magicians tv show—they built up a romance with two characters, Quentin and Eliot, and even had an entire episode dedicated to them growing old and falling in love and raising a son together. and then they said oops, alternate timeline, that didn't happen!! and later, Eliot kissed Quentin, except this time it was a dream version of Quentin and not the real guy. after that, there's no follow through. they go nowhere. the show builds up a romance, and here's the important part: it explicitly acknowledges that romance, and then does nothing with it. 911 hasn't done that, and I don't think they will. either they'll leave Buck and Eddie as they are, and no romance will be acknowledged, in which case it's not queerbaiting in this sense and they're just two really good friends, and that's fine, or they'll explicitly acknowledge a romance, and that will go somewhere. it'll mean something. they haven't used it as a baiting tactic yet, and I don't think they will.

so tldr, in my opinion 911 is doing just fine. I read buddie as romantic, but if there's no acknowledgement of that and they stay as they are right now, I wouldn't call it queerbaiting. they're straddling a line between good friends and love interests, but they haven't pushed into queerbaiting territory and I don't expect them to. the show is doing great :)

[onrainynights]

why you can't compare buddie to destiel (from someone who ships both)

this is kind of addressing the recent negativity in the buddie tag, but it's also a collection of my thoughts and reasoning for being buddie-positive despite my experiences with destiel and spn in general. the text of 911 is not really discussed at all, and this is relatively spoiler-free, so if you're thinking of watching 911 I encourage you to read it. if you haven't seen both shows it probably won't make perfect sense, but I wrote this with spn fans who haven't seen 911 in mind, since that's most of my followers (and also seems to be where much of the negativity was coming from) pretty long post under the cut to save your dash

I just want to prepare y'all for the fact that buddie could be the slow burn will they/won't they mlm romance we've been waiting for practically forever.

at this point it's not fair to call it queerbait because where their relationship is now fits the characters and their development. this is not like destiel, where there were many moments over the years that could've ended with them getting together and it would've made sense with the story. buddie right now is in this sweet, wholesome pre-relationship kind of place, which on its own is a compelling dynamic and so fun and good to see. a resolution of it right now would feel out of character—they both still have some development to do before that would feel natural. and so, I don't think we can really call it queerbaiting unless the characters get to that point and there is still no resolution.

also I'd like to point out the overall positivity from the cast when it comes to buddie. both Eddie's and Buck's actors have said (I'm paraphrasing cast statements in this post unless they are in quotations) positive things about the pairing, and Buck's actor has said that he likes the interpretation of Buck as queer, and he would be happy if the writers took his character in that direction. also Eddie's actor with "that's what they all say" when buddie was referred to as a "bromance". Jennifer Love Hewitt, who plays Buck's sister (another main character), is very supportive of buddie, saying she's "rooting for it", that it would be "amazing", she doesn't "see how it couldn't happen one day". this was in response to hearing that a fan insists Buck and Eddie will be a couple. She flat-out said "I think so, too." She jokes about buddie with Buck's and Eddie's actors all the time. Also, my favorite bit from the video of her saying all this, "Let's manifest it together!"

It's safe to say this is a VERY different environment to spn. I don't think I've ever seen a cast this positive about a show's main non-canon queer ship before. NEVER. I think it's safe to say that if/when buddie is canonized, the cast will be just as excited as the fans—at least JLH will be! Add into the fact that the show's PR seems to be leaning into bi buck and buddie right now, it's a VERY different vibe than spn had, definitely. There's no gaslighting of the fans here, at least not that I've seen. also, although 911 has a large casual viewership, I think it's safe to say the GA would not be upset by buddie—there are only 3 serious, long-term romantic relationships involving main characters in this show, and one of them is a lesbian marriage with two children. And yes, the characters are shown being lesbians, it's not just a stated fact; the audience is privy to their relationship (and their interactions with their adorable kids). I think it's safe to say that buddie would go over well with the fans, even the casual viewers (of which there are many). buddie doesn't seem to be a huge divider in fandom like destiel is, either. reactions generally seem to be either "I ship it" or "I don't care either way."

Also I'd like to point out that while yes, it's possible that buddie is only bait (which would be disappointing), there's a reason queerbaiting works. people WANT to be queerbaited, because it's nearly indistinguishable from a slow burn will they/won't they queer romance. queerbaiting allows fans to make theories, create fan content (including fic), and keeps them engaged with the dynamic and the show. fans who are vulnerable to queerbaiting want a slow burn will they/won't they queer romance, which is currently an almost completely untapped market. spn could've tapped it, but despite the huge fandom they did not. there are SO MANY people outside of spn fandom who want a slow burn mlm romance, one that keeps the audience guessing, one that's will they/won't they, one that is not guaranteed, and that is why queerbaiting works so well. the audience doesn't just want the payoff, they also want the build-up. the longer the build-up, the higher the payoff, and the suspense of the build-up is gone if you know from the start that the payoff is definitely coming. that's part of why malec from shadowhunters didn't fully tap this market—there was no question of if, only the question of when (which wasn't really a question either, given there was an episode in season 1 literally titled "malec" when they got together.) the characters were always queer, the show being an adaptation of a book series where they were in a relationship and eventually had children together.

this was why November 5th was such a big deal—fans were so far past the will they/won't they aspect of destiel, firmly believing that destiel would always end as a "won't they" and not a "will they" that when cas confessed his romantic love for dean, destiel trended on Twitter over the US election. you all know that story, but maybe not everyone reading this knows that after Nov. 5 there was a case of hundreds if not thousands of spn fans experiencing love sickness because of the confession scene. the payoff of making destiel fully canon (and reciprocated, in English) would've been huge. fans would've been throwing their money at the c/w.

which leads me to the possibility (this is not at all me saying that I think this happened or even is likely, just that it's one possibility that /could/ have happened) that buddie started as bait, that the writers never intended for them to be a couple, but saw fan reactions to buddie during season 2 and started to lean into it in season 3 (and 4 so far, but it just started so I don't want to make any generalized statements about it) possibly still as bait or maybe not deciding yet if they'll go anywhere with it. and then maybe they saw destiel trending on November 5th, realized just how BIG the market for a slow burn will they/won't they mlm romance is, and said "hey, we already have the foundations for one of those. why not go for it and draw in all those viewers who clearly want one so badly?"

if buddie goes canon, because the cast and PR have been so positive about it, unlike spn, and because of the text of the show itself, the show's creatives could VERY EASILY claim that they were never baiting, that it was all an intentional slow burn will they/won't they romance from the beginning, and most people would believe them; there isn't really any evidence to the contrary, although I am sure there would be at least a few fans convinced it started as queerbaiting, and there might not be any evidence to refute that, either.

the point is that 911 is currently sitting on a gold mine. if they play their cards right, and execute buddie well, they will monopolize this market that old straight white men serving as network executives have failed so far to really tap into. they queerbait without the payoff, which gives the show a reputation among those in the market who haven't seen it, guaranteeing they will never watch it. shows in this vein: sherlock (huge reputation for queerbaiting and a finale fans didn't like) and spn (huge reputation for queerbaiting and a finale fans didn't like). spn got so, so close with cas's confession but then continued to gaslight its fans, and PR did not lean into destiel AT ALL. if 911 did buddie? the PR team would be all over it. it would be a moneymaker, big time, and Fox knows it. if buddie, or even just bi buck, went canon, tumblr would be all over it. viewership for the show, which is already impressive, would skyrocket. 911 would monopolize this market, because fans wary of queerbaiting would watch it with the knowledge that the payoff is there, and there really wouldn't be a competitor until other shows saw the success of buddie and followed suit with their own pairings, and given the fact that the market specifically wants /slow burn/ queer romances, that might take a couple years. that puts 911 in a really good position, where suddenly the fandom of the show, not just the GA, is very large and likely very dedicated to the show. the success of canon buddie might just change the landscape of TV in the coming years, showing execs that while queerbaiting does work, actually going through with it is really where the money is. 911 would not just monopolize the market for a while; it would pioneer it.

if buddie never goes canon, I would probably be a bit disappointed at the wasted potential, but unless the characters get to that point where canon buddie seems like the most logical outcome and they /don't/ go for it, I won't be truly upset because I don't think it's fair to claim its queerbaiting until then. I can't tell you how likely it is that buddie will be canon at some point, but it seems FAR more likely than destiel /ever/ did, and we ended up getting cas's confession in the end. I have hope, despite being hurt so badly by spn. 911 is a genuinely great show with some fantastic writing, and they don't leave chekov's gun unfired, unlike spn.

really, it comes down to this: if Jennifer Love Hewitt is allowed to clown for buddie, then so am I, and I'll enjoy this show—which is amazing even without canon buddie—while I apply my clown makeup.