#Virgil has Mean Thoughts

[hyperfixated-homo]

its missing old sasi aus/fics hours everyone

[t4t-apexeclipse]

which two sides would have the best time getting high together

and alternatively… which two sides would have the worst time getting high

[eliotquillon]

looking back i find it so funny how much i was dragging my feet and complaining about wayward being a cassia centric standalone because wayward is now 1000% my favourite of the two books and i care so much more about the side characters in it than the ones in witherward. i have read so much ya fantasy over the years that it’s very rare for my pre-read vibe checks to be wrong but hannah mathewson humbled me so bad with wayward lmaooo

[prince-rowan-of-the-forest]

Roman and his People Pleasing.

Putting this one out here for peer review.

I want to talk about Roman and how he has so much trouble forming and standing up for his own opinions.

We can start with how difficult he finds accepting Virgil.

In the third Sanders Sides episode ever, where Virgil first shows up. Thomas pretty much tells Roman to get rid of Virgil. From this point onwards Roman is mean to Virgil, he tries to argue with him, get him to leave etc. Logan even points it out by saying that the others have all had moments of seeing eye to eye with Virgil.

In Accepting Anxiety, Roman only comes round to Virgil after everyone else has. He's still fighting on the front of Thomas' previous request to get rid of Virgil and doesn't catch up on the fact that they're now accepting him until everyone else has. At which point he does almost a 180, there's still slipups, but after Accepting Anxiety Roman and Virgil's relationship becomes one of the most solid in the series.

Now fast forward to when Janus shows up, Roman immediately wants to listen to him and bring him in (ofc this results in him being kind of used and a lot of shit later) but especailly in the courtroom episode it's clear he agrees with Janus, he's genuinely having fun in the courtroom (up until he realises how serious this is) and he seems to genuinely enjoy talking to him. Obviously this is pretty different to how Roman treated Virgil and I believe this is him trying to 'make up for' being in the wrong about Virgil by treating this other darkside the same way he should have treated Virgil from the beginning.

And then Patton pretty much shuts Roman down and reaffirms that Janus is the bad guy, so Roman immediately goes back to disagreeing with him, acting like he did towards Virgil in the beginning, he gives up on going for what he thought was right in the first place (which was correct btw) and thus tries to fight against Janus instead, which then leads to him believing that he's not Thoma's hero anymore.

This poor guy just can't win, clearly doing what they tell him is wrong, but he also gets chastised for doing what he believes is the right thing.

Honesly poor guy.

This guy has such a good concsiencs and is a very good judgement of character but he's such a people pleaser that he keeps making the wrong decisions and pissing everyone off.

[firewolf111]

Thomas: Okay, guys. I need your help. How do I tell the viewers that I need to take a break?

Patton: You could just...tell them?

Roman: *laughs* Tell them? That's hilarious.

Janus: I do see what is so funny.

Roman: Do you really think they're going to care?

Patton: I don't see why they wouldn't.

Roman: Don't you get it? No one cares for the narrator, only the characters. The only thing the narrator is wanted for, is the plot. The creator is only worth their creation. They won’t care.

Virgil: Geez, and they say I'm the angsty one.

Logan: To be fair, Roman is right.

Virgil: *groaning* Not you too.

Logan: I'm simply stating the facts. Science faces a similar problem. We often care more for the theories than the scientists who worked to discover them, leading to the credit being given to the wrong person.

Virgil: Also misogyny.

Logan: That too. But the point stands, the person is rarely associated with the product unless given value by something else, say money for example. You'll learn more about Newton's laws than you will about how he discovered them. No one tends to care for the effort and years it can take.

Roman: Or the blood and tears.

Thomas: This has gotten...depressing.

Roman: *shrugs* No one cares for the maker. No matter what you do. Though...maybe you are popular enough for people to care about you.

The "not me" goes unsaid. And maybe it also goes unheard and unnoticed as well.

Logan: It's possible you've gained enough of a fan base to have worth outside of your content.

Virgil: Are you trying to give him an existential crisis?

Janus: *looking at Virgil* I'm starting to think we are the mentally stable ones. Perhaps even Remus might be higher on that list than we thought.

Virgil: ...yeah. You may have a point.

Thomas: I'm not even sure what's going on anymore. I just asked for a bit of advice.

Patton: ... do you guys need a hug?

Roman: I mean, yes, but as I was saying. It's less the creator and more the character that will have the empathy of the viewers. *He fights the urge to look at Virgil. He ignores the thought of Janus in the courtroom. He pretends he doesn't know the comments. He shoves the thought of Remus away. He pretends, because he is good at pretending. The thoughts can wait for his stories because he was a creator, not the character.*

Roman: *glances at Logan* Though I have to admit, maybe creators are a bit more fortunate than the scientists. At least they get credit for what they make. And at least their pain can get seen, even if it's associated with their characters instead of themselves.

Logan: *looks away* Maybe. Though scientists tend to be taken more seriously.

An understanding is reached between the two. An understanding forged by pain and longing, though an understanding nonetheless.

Roman: Either way, the creator is never the one to matter.

Thomas: ...I think I'll just make a community post.

Virgil: Good idea.

Janus: Sounds great.

Roman and Logan: ...

And the conversation won't be acknowledged after that, proving their point. No one will catch on, and no one will care. And isn't that the creator's curse? To bleed for a page and be expected to keep bleeding. For the blood to be complimented in color, but the danger of the ink to be ignored. To paint with poison, only to die unnoticed as the paintings are admired.

At least to be famous is to be known.

But to be a creator is to be nothing but a creator.

[clydesavage-thefox147]

Dear...everyone who's been confused about Patton and Virgil's animosity...

According to Joan back in a past YouTube Membership live stream, They confirmed that something happened with Virgil and Patton between the likes of "Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts" and "Are There Healthy Distractions". That explains why Virgil was so snappy at him during their viewing of Frozen. We don't exactly know yet what that "something" was, but I'm only assuming some kind of argument or discourse. I mean, It was at the time where Patton was being strict on Thomas which caused moral panic and when Virgil wanted some boundaries because of Patton's coddling, babying nature towards him. Also, Patton being with Janus more as of recent was/is just the cherry on top of all this.

Also, I know some of y'all are saying "oh well Joan's not really a part of the story writing anymore so it's not canon" Well, Joan has recently with Thomas confirmed that Healthy Distractions, FWSA and WTIT are all canonical episodes because they were so plot heavy. Also, a lot a fanders have been confused as to why Virgil is so cross with Patton and why his demeanor changed towards him so quickly in Healthy Distractions, so leaving it unanswered wouldn't be a good move. Plus, up to WTIT which was the last episode Joan was there to write, Virgil still had issues with Patton as seen in the endcard.

In the Plushie Asides if you count that, Logan was genuinely shocked by how Virgil was even siding with Patton at that moment..showing and hinting that Logan must be aware of what happened..whether he was there as a mediator, a witness or overheard somethings. That episode was released in 2022 after Joan left. So, Thomas has kept up this plot line seemingly(He even confirmed Joan left notes on certain plot points going forward).

I'm just hoping we see this off screen moment mentioned or flashbacked to. I really wanna know what happened. I might go into further detail about their animosity at some point but I'm not sure when so take this brief summary for now.

[loganslowdown4]

THEORY: I had a wild thought cross my mind.

Forever, I was of the mind that Patton was the emotional side, meaning he harbors and distributes ALL emotions to Thomas. We’ve seen him show happiness, sadness, nostalgia, melancholy, etc. But what if I’ve got it wrong?👀

WHAT IF emotions like anger and jealousy are actually in the possession of the others? So if Patton has happiness and sadness, Virgil has fear and anxiety, it stands to reason that Roman has jealousy, pride and bravery, and LOGAN has anger and rage.

And I’m not saying they as sides can’t experience a range of emotions themselves but I’m saying they are the prime holders of those emotions for c!Thomas. And since Logan might be the holder of anger, it means he’s been LYING about having emotions (which may have been one of the reasons Janus came about) and may be the reason why c!Thomas keeps questioning if he’s a good person. MAYBE if Logan lets his anger out, Thomas will get mad, and getting angry might equate to c!Thomas feeling like a bad person if he’s trying SO HARD to be good. Maybe this is why Logan was lying and saying he has no emotions. He does have them, he just has possession of the ‘worst one’ (or at least how c!Thomas would see his ‘worst quality’)—

👀 something to think about—

[transfemlogan]

I have seen people criticise how thomas is currently writing and treating remus' character, because he represents intrusive thoughts & that'a a delicate topic (I am one of these people).

I've also seen people criticise remus as a dark side because that implies he will be accepted and have an acceptance arc. I have seen people say that Remus should not have existed as a character, because they dislike the concept of him "getting accepted". That Thomas shouldnt "accept his intrusive thoughts" because that... implies that they are "good"(?) and that it makes them uncomfortable because "their intrusive thoughts are bad and shouldn't be accepted, so neither should c!Thomas'" or whatever.

&. Everyone who says this has completely missed the entire point.

You... are supposed to accept your intrusive thoughts. That's quite literally how you cope with them. Intrusive thoughts are not "evil" or "bad", they're Thoughts. I've literally seen this said everywhere & it . Shocks me?

C!Thomas should accept Remus & his intrusive thoughts. Because if he is stuck continuously thinking those thoughts are "evil" and "shouldnt be thought about", then he will never learn to cope. And I know with Virgil & Janus, their acceptance arcs involved the idea that "anxiety & deceit have a purpose" & people dislike that concept with Remus & intrusive thoughts... but for c!Thomas, intrusive thoughts do have a purpose for him. They help him understand when his mental health is bad & when he is struggling & needs to take time to relax. That does not mean they are "good", it just means it shows Thomas how he is doing mentally & needs to "listen" to that.

It reminds me of when people on Tik tok say "you can have intrusive thoughts, but you're not supposed to talk about them!" ... you are supposed to talk about them. You should talk about them. They're not stuff to be hidden?? Like you are still continuing to stigmatise intrusive thoughts when you say that.

"Thomas shouldn't accept intrusive thoughts because they're bad thoughts! I would never accept my intrusive thoughts!" They're not bad thoughts, nor are they good. They're neutral. They are just Thoughts that happen to cross your mind that you do not morally agree with. You're supposed to "accept them".

Acceptance doesn't have to mean acting on it, because that would never even apply to intrusive thoughts.

Having a character that represents intrusive thoughts have a sympathetic arc is a good thing that unstigmatises intrusive thoughts. It's a good thing to have this character be treated with respect and to be accepted and "listened to" (not literally). It helps people accept and cope with their own intrusive thoughts and it helps with others feel sympathy towards people who have intrusive thoughts.

Obviously, if other ppl w/ intrusive thoughts want to speak up, feel free. But as someone who has intrusive thoughts, it is so silly to me to act like Remus' concept is inherently bad because it makes "intrusive thoughts out to be good" (no, it doesn't). Obviously, there are better ways for Thomas to have gone w/ remus' character & esp lately, when he treats intrusive thoughts as impulsive thoughts, but.

Hearing fans say that is like... you are continuing to push stigma against intrusive thoughts. You are not helping anyone if you are continuing to act as of intrusive thoughts are bad and should be hidden.

[orbch]

people talking about analogical and being like “their identities balance each other out really well” and im like NO KIDDING!!!! 😂🤣

anways heres an essay about their storylines and how they mirror each other

(everything im about to say is very mentally unconstructed and thought up in a 3am haze. and also i feel like all of my thoughts abt sasi are stagnant and surface level so please argue with me if you think im wrong..) (also these ideas have likely already been written a bajillion times. but let me do it anyway LOL)

^ with that being said i feel the need to set a definition on what makes sasi sides “dark sides” and “light sides” because like,, to me the only difference between them is the means in which they get the rest of the sides to listen to them

obviously.. none of the sides are actively trying to be evil. or trying to hurt cthomas on purpose. OBVIOUSLYY. because why the hell would they want to do that? they are all literally That Guy, and all of the sides have their own personal goals for thomas that they want him to follow. this is like. the plot. and very known information..

but remus, janus, and formerly virgil are the “dark sides”… like what? because janus manipulated and pretended to be the other sides because thats the only way he could get the others to really listen to and consider his ideas of self preservation and prioritization? and virgil would actively terrorize the others and thomas to get him to be anxious about the stuff virgil believed it was IMPORTANT for him to be anxious about? and remus. listen remus is a whole lot of “being awful for the sake of being awful” but evidently in DWIT he has a strong attraction to the idea of infamy and legacy. so even he is sort of looking out for thomas in. uhm. his own way i guess…

so obviously we know virgils storyline was;

purposely scare the others to get them to see situations from his point of view -> always get insulted and pushed away for being a “pessimist” (its his entire purpose) -> “duck out” and leave thomas and the others to discover the negative affects of zero anxiety -> only after that, finally become recognized as an important aspect of thomas

tw: mention of suicide [not in detail] (and on that note, i think its a little morbid that the light sides only fully realized virgils worth and objective after he attempted the sanders sides equivalent of suicide (which you can NOT convince me isnt what the concept of “ducking out” is. they are all metaphysical personifications of instinctual human traits. what the hell are they gonna do? become real and walk out of the house? bffr))

and whats logans journey?

be considered the [reasonable problem solver] of the group -> be placed in a MULTITUDE of situations where the range of solutions are emotions v. emotions v. emotions and suddenly be considered “cold hearted” and “uncaring” for your objective view points -> get excluded from discussions and ignored when you try and help in the only way you know how -> ???

i (and most of the fandom) fully believe logan (ESPECIALLY after WTIT) is going to start resorting to some pretty drastic measures to be acknowledged by the rest of the sides + thomas. some actions that are likely incited by a “dark side” (nudge nudge the orange guy nudge nudge). and if the harshness of the measures he takes in order to be listened to is all it takes for the rest of the dark sides to be considered “dark sides” in the first place. then uhh well… well!!!

but anyways yeah. yeah. logan and virgil kinda have mirrored character development and that is so fucking interesting. virgils path from dark to light and logans path from light to dark… sighhh.. good stuff

[nb-octopus-writes]

once you’re in the hive, the other bees assume you’re supposed to be there

[Masterpost]

Chapter 3: A Series of Unintended Events

Wordcount: 1.3K

~~~~

The pancakes are delicious, light and fluffy. Virgil only has two, because he did already have cereal and unlike Remus his stomach is not a bottomless pit into which he can pour an unending stream of nutrients. But they're delicious, and he's glad Calico convinced him to try a bit.

After breakfast, Virgil helps with the dishes because Remus still isn't up yet, and neither is Janus—probably still curled around him like a hot water bottle—and he has nothing better to do.

Princey meanders in after him, and despite having just demolished an entire stack of pancakes and a decent amount of scrambled eggs, starts rooting around in the fridge. He emerges with a plastic-wrapped plate of tiny pumpkin pies and leans against the counter to eat them directly off the platter, clearly pleased that the party having ended means he can have the leftovers.

“So you're the reason the chinese buffet has a twenty plate limit,” Virgil teases after Princey eats several in a row without pausing. Virgil had a few of those tiny pies last night, so he knows they're good, but Princey is absolutely chowing down on them.

“Hey, that was not my fault!” Princey protests. “Besides, a place that calls itself ‘all you can eat’ shouldn't even have a limit.”

“It shouldn’t,” Virgil agrees. “But I've never hit the limit myself, so I thought it was reasonably high. I suppose that a buffet operating in the same town as twin black holes would need to be cautious to protect their profit margins though. How much did you two pack away before they asked you to stop?”

“Wouldn't you like to know, weather boy,” Princey says. “Anyway, it really wasn't us.”

“No?”

Princey sighs. “No, Count Woe-laf,” he says. He is just too much fun to tease. “If my father is to be believed, it was actually him and a couple of his college buddies.”

Virgil laughs. “Oh, so it's definitely genetic, then!”

Princey chuckles, popping the last tiny pie into his mouth and setting the plate on the counter. Virgil takes it and rinses it off so he can put it in the dishwasher with the others. “Yeah. Dad says they absolutely cleared out the seafood section, and most of the mac and cheese, and ate a sizable portion of pretty much everything else. If you get him going, he'll give you a very long and probably quite embellished retelling of the many courses they had. They never got kicked out, but the next time they went, they were told that there was now a limit to just how much they could eat.”

“Ah, alas,” Virgil says. “I bet it was a fabulous feast, though.” He finishes loading the dishwasher and checks under the sink for soap. They have pods, which is very convenient for measuring, or rather for not having to do that. He pops one in and turns the machine on.

“So, if I'm Count Olaf antagonizing you, which Baudelaire does that make you?” he asks. “Not bookish Klaus, surely. Maybe Sunny? I think she could demolish a plate as quickly as you, though her small stomach wouldn't have the same capacity.”

Princey's eyes light up and he leans forward. Instead of answering the banter, he says meaningfully, “I have the full series on dvd.”

“I'm not doing anything right now,” Virgil says. Princey beams.

“Great! I'll make popcorn!”

~

They have a dedicated home theater. The tv is large, the seats are comfortable, and the speakers are crisp and clear without being too loud. Princey made a bucket of popcorn for each of them, and Virgil isn't very hungry right now considering he very recently had breakfast, but he munches idly on it as they watch, and comment, and theorize. Princey is fun to watch tv with, and doesn't mind Virgil talking while they watch.

They're in the middle of an episode when Remus appears in the doorway.

“Hey Emo,” says Remus. “I gotta get home and feed my cat before she figures out how to unlock the front door and hunts me down. I was gonna take you home on the way, but it looks like you're in the middle of something.”

Virgil considers. He looks at the screen, where Lemony Snicket is explaining that if you're allergic to something, it's generally best not to put that thing in your mouth, especially if the thing you are allergic to is a cat. He looks back at Remus. “You swear you'll come back for me?”

“On my favorite dildo and Janus's two cocks,” Remus says with feeling, and Virgil can't help the chuckle that escapes him.

“I'll be okay,” he says. “Go get Diesel Fuel her lunch.”

Remus salutes him and disappears.

They finish the episode and Remus hasn't come back yet, so they go on to the next one. During the theme song though, Nerdbot appears to inform them that they too need to eat lunch.

Virgil thought Princey might protest, given how invested he's been, but he pauses the show and gets up. “C’mon, Tall Dark and Stormy,” he says to Virgil. “If we skip lunch to watch tv all day we get a lecture about why proper nutrition is important.”

“You do,” Nerdbot confirms. “Points of note include the necessity of proteins and vegetables in addition to carbohydrates.”

“Is popcorn a vegetable?” Virgil asks.

Nerdbot raises an eyebrow. “It is a carbohydrate, actually. It is also primarily air.”

It seems that all the other guests have gone home, so it's just the four of them now. The table is back to its smaller size, and Princey has Virgil sit at the corner beside him, so they can keep talking. Nerdbot sits on Virgil’s other side, and Calico sits at the head, across from Princey.

Lunch is baked chicken and a vegetable dish that Virgil doesn't really expect to like, but he takes a polite spoonful anyway because he's sure Nerdbot is capable of a very powerful ‘eat your vegetables’ lecture, and he doesn't feel like hearing it right now.

The vegetables do not taste bad. Virgil’s not sure why he's surprised anymore considering everything he's eaten in this house so far—with the possible exception of the cereal, which doesn't count—but the vegetables are the opposite of bad.

“Why are you such a good cook,” Virgil says to Calico, who brightens. “I need to come eat your food more often.”

“He has a magical tongue,” Princey says, making heart eyes across the table at him.

Calico blushes slightly (not nearly as deeply as he had last night) and clarifies, “I'm very good at tasting, and I have a lot of practice combining flavors. I'm also not afraid of fats and salt, and that helps.”

Virgil has two servings.

Remus still isn't back yet when they finish lunch, and Virgil is starting to get concerned.

Don't forget me, he texts, and goes into the room with the couches to wait.

This couch really is comfortable. And Virgil got barely any sleep last night, between staying up late and waking up so fucking early, and also probably never actually falling into a deep sleep at all since there were other people in the room. And his stomach is full and warm. And the couch is so comfortable. 

He barely has time to notice how heavy his eyelids are becoming.

~

Virgil wakes, briefly. The room is dark. Someone has covered him with a blanket. He finds his phone and checks it. There's a message from Remus, about half an hour after Virgil’s last text.

came to get you but you were very asleep, it says. text me when youre awake and wanna go home

Attached is a selfie, with Virgil in the background passed out on the couch.

Virgil groans. fucker, he texts back, and falls back asleep.

~~~~

Chapter 4: The Second Morning

[delimeful]

thinking wibar thoughts rn.. imagine if the crew was sent to an uninhabited jungle planet for work and lets virgil explore/help them. and virgil is just So Stressed the entire time, and theyre like "is virgil.. afraid of the jungle? i mean it would make sense, he is from a deathworld, i imagine earth jungles are very deadly-"

meanwhile virgil is just on the brink of a stress aneurysm bc his crew is So So Tiny and Fragile and Breakable and also logan is So Curious and roman is So Adventurous and patton is So Friendly with Wild Animals. and it is taking all he has to not pick them up like misbehaving toddlers when they do dangerous shit.

virgil stress levels when he has to wrestle a space jaguar: meh. kind of cool past the attempted mauling tbh

virgil stress levels when patton touches the leaf of a random plant before he can make sure it's not space poison ivy:

[where-are-the-spooky-gays-2]

Theory: we know that in “dealing with intrusive thoughts” Remus showed everyone that he eats deodorant right? BUT BUT BUT it was confirmed that VIRGIL used to be a dark side too right? But Virgil acts sort of surprised when Remus said he ate deodorant meaning that it has to be a habit that Remus picked up AFTER Virgil left. Is it just me or does it sort of give off the vibe of someone drinking Alcohol when an ex or something leaves because they’re sad? It could imply that Remus felt bad when Virgil left so he began eating deodorant to cope with it. Like someone over eating or “smoking” to cope with something (But Remus does it with deodorant cuz he’s Remus Yk?)

Just something I noticed lol

Okay I see you and I hear you B U T what if Vee was pretending not to know due to making it seem like he was never close to Ree in front of Character!Thomas to not raise suspicion? Cause why would manz need to glance around in a way like "Yeah guys I don't know what the fuck he's on about normal people don't do that" y'know?

[bailey-orphic08]

Virgil's Gift: An Analysis on It's Symbolism and Possible Foreshadowing

Obvious spoilers for Thomas' newest Sander Asides video: What Makes the Perfect Gift? Go watch it if you haven't.

.

.

.

So the yearly Sander Sides Christmas special dropped hours ago. (Yippee!) And there's a surprisingly large amount to be said for it to be a 13 minute long Christmas special. In fact, I'd say it's the most story focused episode since Can Plushies Improve Our Health?, and that was an ad for the Sander Sides plushies. There's just so much to talk about this episode. There's the implications of Janus and Remus being invited to play Secret Santa; the mystery to what Thomas' message was with his gift to Nico; the underlying tension between all the sides that reminds us of the angst we've already seen and how things still aren't completely alright and that the worst is yet to come; and, most notable of all, the question as to WHY THE HELL REMUS WOULD WANT TO F*CK ANDREW JACKSON??

But the most interesting thing to me is Virgil's gift to Logan, his reaction, and how it reflects Logan's current situation.

Virgil gives Logan a newspaper, claiming that it seems like something he would like. Logan however, does not read newspapers and is very disappointed by the gift. Remus and Janus make some comments on how unthoughtful Virgil's gift appears. But at the end of the episode, Logan finds out that the newspaper actually has a secret message and is the first puzzle of an entire scavenger hunt, which excites him a lot.

This is by far my favorite part of the episode. Not only is it heartwarming, it also symbolizes how Logan has been treated as a whole, and may even foreshadow future events in the series.

When Virgil gives Logan the newspaper, Logan is very confused, and asks him why he would give him a newspaper. Virgil replies, "Cuz' you're the Mr. Smarty Pants of the group. You like reading and all that." Logan is still confused though. Yes, he likes to read, but that doesn't mean he will read anything. Roman chimes in with Virgil, reinforcing that they think Logan will like it. Logan says, "Is that all I am to you? The reading guy?..." And Virgil replies, "I don't know man, give it a read! I'm sure it has something you like."

This entire interaction represents how Logan has been ignored and misunderstood throughout the entire series. Virgil gives Logan a newspaper, something he doesn't actually want, because he assumes he will like it since he likes to read in general. He made an assumption on Logan's personality based off things he already knew, something Thomas and all of the other sides have been doing since the beginning. Throughout the entire series, Logan is considered the smart one of the group who always provides information and exposition, and little else is expected of him. In ACCEPTING ANXIETY part one, Thomas assumes that Logan knew what his problem was because he provides, "the explanatory exposition in [the Sander Sides] videos because all the other characters are too zany or relatable." And in Selfishness v. Selflessness, Logan is benched after providing information that supports both Patton and Janus' sides because they assume he has nothing else to offer. Time and time again Logan is reduced to his function and the traits that go along with it, such as liking to read. And why these things about him are true, he is far more complex that who they see him as. But, as Virgil didn't seem to care to get him something he would actually like, they don't seem to care to learn more about Logan...

They do care though. And that's shown through the twist at the end. When Logan discovers that it's a puzzle, Virgil jokes, "And you thought I would just get you a newspaper. Tsk. What do you take me for?" Though it appeared Virgil didn't put much consideration into the gift, and though Logan believed Virgil didn't, he did, because he truly cares about Logan. And throughout the entire series, though they don't always listen to him, Thomas and the sides show that they care about Logan. Patton is always nice to him, Roman, while the most harsh to him, does secretly respect him, and Thomas, as shown in the song, "Incomplete," is not only aware that Logan has feelings and is more than just logic, he wants Logan to accept it as well. He also seems empathetic when Logan is disappointed with his gift. This represents how Logan's insecurities get in the way of him being fully accepted. Logan is convinced that Thomas and the sides will only ever see him as his function, and that they do not care about his other traits. This is one of the reasons he represses his emotions, and is shown by how quickly Logan believes Virgil got him a newspaper simply because he likes to read. Though Logan may not realize it, Thomas and the sides love and accept him fully, and Logan needs to see that.

However, it seems that someone doesn't want him to see that...

And that's where the foreshadowing comes into play.

After the conversation Virgil gives Logan his gift, Janus chimes in, saying, "Wow Logan, looks like Virgil put a lot of thought into that one!" He emphasizes how little consideration Virgil's gift seemed to have. In doing this, he reinforces the idea to Logan that Virgil didn't care enough to give him a gift he would like, even though that's not actually true. And if he his doing this intentionally, he may also be reinforcing the idea that they don't care about him.

And Remus soon after joins in, proposing, "Kinda makes you wanna scream, huh?" This is obviously a callback to Logan's outburst in Working THROUGH Intrusive Thoughts. In that episode, Remus showed great excitement towards his outburst, implying that Remus wanted him to get upset. And now again, he suggests that Logan should get angry about it. It is very clear that Remus is trying to make Logan lash out on purpose.

Based off this, I believe that in future episodes, we will see the dark sides, or Remus at least, try to manipulate Logan into believing that Thomas and the sides don't care about him. In doing this, they'll persuade him into joining their side. Perhaps they'll make him a puppet for the Orange Side, or if Logan is the Orange Side, they will make him embrace it. Of course their plan won't work out though. Because even if the do get Logan to join them for a little, the other sides will show that they care. And perhaps if they do, Logan will finally be able to see that, and he will finally be able to accept himself.

[the-uninformed-zennial]

sooo bound band au when

Who said it was gonna be an au

Honestly though, most of the bound characters are giving me orchestra energy, so I feel like a Band AU would be like… a band kid AU if yk what I mean. Like, everyone would be in high school with braces and hormones and trying to find a course to fill their art requirement that wouldn’t absolutely bore them. Yk?

So that being said, here’s the instruments I’d think each Bound character would play and why;

Armor - Vocals <redacted>

Ashril - Funky Roadrunner guy is giving me either some random instrument no one has ever heard of before or keyboard and there is no in between for me personally.

Avalon - Drums. I know I always give the stabby people percussion instruments, but they’re just really good for helping to work out negative emotions okay??

Cosie - flute

Elwood - Canon Elwood would not learn an instrument unless Mojave somehow gaslit him into thinking it would be useful. So fanon Elwood would know piano, cause it’s a classical instrument so it fits the vibes and it’s also one of the most versatile so I think we wouldn’t have to bend Elwood’s character too much to make it fit.

Erin - Erin gives me cello vibes. I feel like the Avicane in general ooze kinda classical instruments, and Erin feels like someone who would want something like a bass but a little lighter and more based on melody. So Cello.

Gaverin - Singer. That bird gives me lead singer vibes so hard. If she isn’t in the front of the stage strutting his newest designs and singing their little heart out like a bird version of Chappel Roan, what exactly are they doing?

Marcel - Viola. It’s just- mmmm. Slightly deeper violin that fits the human range really well… it just screams Marcel to me idk.

Mojave - lead singer/rhythm guitar/songwriter. This is just canon lol

Pietro - Percussion. Not drums like Ava, but specifically like orchestral percussion. I’m talking everything from the huge bass drums to the triangle. I think while Virgil was learning violin Pietro signed up for orchestra too and the director was just like, “here kid, hit this” and Pietro went wild. They’re probably the best percussionist anyone’s seen in a really long time, but she doesn’t really talk about it/show off that much cause they want Virgil to be able to shine. (Guys I’m normal about the birdthers I swear)

Rune - I feel like Rune’s a guitar guy. Like, their vibes are chill and laid back enough to fit it, plus I feel like they’d have a really fun time inventing like pedals and stuff to make the guitar sound different depending on the song and stuff.

Sylph - Triangle. And Kazoo. And singing (badly) /lh

Taliesin - Okay, okay, my thought for Taliesin is that whenever someone asks if they play an instrument they always say something that like no one knows how to play, like Basoon or the Oboe. And then if someone ever asks her to, he’s just like “oh no, sorry, the stars aren’t in the right alignment you see”. And it’s cause they don’t actually know how to play any instruments cause they’re a lyin’ cheatin’ little— anyway (/j we love Tal in this house and they probably play something that’s totally against their aesthetic but easy to learn like Uke or smth)

Vast - Vast plays Clarinet. It’s classic, it’s breathy, it’s something the symphony I mean Avicane would teach. It just feels and sounds right for him. Bonus idea: his sister played the flute and he picked up Clarinet cause he wanted to be in the same section as her

Virgil - Violin. Again, this is just canon. But I feel like Virgil wouldn’t be like the best violinist ngl. In my head he’s like 3rd chair but Pietro always comes up to him after concerts and is like “THATS MY BROTHER!!” And like glares at people until they applaud for him. Virgil knows this. And is incredibly embarrassed by the whole thing, but it’s still kinda endearing.

So yeah, those are my instrument/Band AU thoughts. Do with them what you will

[part-time-zombie]

Assorted snake boy janus headcanons for no reason:

(turns out he's apparently canonically cold-blooded, sheds his scales, doesn't have pores, shape-shifts, and has a thing called "snake telepathy" and I'm running with this + using it in fics)

The light sides don't know about the telepathy thing, which makes private shit-talking sessions over breakfast so much fun. Virgil yells "say that to my face, asshole!" out of nowhere, meanwhile as far as the others are concerned janus hasn't said a word >:3

On particularly cold days, janus used to cozy up with virgil, and begrudgingly with remus after he left. Nowadays patton offers warm hugs if he asks, and janus doesn't really mind since he's the warmest side. (He still has a reputation to uphold, though)

Roman is constantly jealous of janus's clear skin, and janus always reminds him his routine is "unattainable", much to romans chagrin (the whole no pores thing)

Remus steals his shed skin, and janus has no idea what he does with it. Probably eats it. He doesn't want to know.

Logan always tries to subtly research/document janus's snake traits, and janus often makes stuff up just to screw the data. He once managed to convince him that the scales really were makeup all along, and the resulting breakdown that ensued will still make him laugh years later.

Sometimes he shape-shifts into another side just to see how long the others will notice. He even has a game where he shape-shifts into remus and has remus conjure a copy of himself, so that the other sides have to guess which of the three remus's is the real one. Only virgil has gotten it right, and that was one time.

Remus loves telling the others about janus's unhinged jaw, and how much food he can swallow without chewing. This is a lie. At least, that's what janus tells them.

Snakes actually can't drink alcohol. Translating this fact to janus makes him a ridiculous lightweight who suffers horrible hangovers.

Snakes also can't cry. The others don't know about this and just think he's too mean to cry about anything.

Janus sometimes falls asleep on the couch with his eyes open. The others then have to play a game of "sleeping, silent treatment, or lost in thought". Remus always knows which one it is.

Janus eats in the same routine as snakes, meaning he'll eat a huge buffet-sized meal like once a week and pass out for an hour afterwards. He won't eat anything for the rest of the week.

His room has a humidifier and a heat lamp. Remus often likes to steal these. He gives them back. Eventually...

Yes, he can smell by tasting things/the air. No, he won't do that.

[orbmanson7]

Let's do a quick analysis of this new short video "The Sides Need a Nice Day" which is clearly meant to be mostly for fun, but there's definitely some hints and easter eggs to pay attention to that I'd like to explore a little further.

I'll address this in three parts in separate posts, the first for Patton and Logan, the next for Virgil and Roman, and the last for Janus and Remus.

Let's start with the first part, about Patton and Logan.

Patton's initial approach, as we can see, was flawed despite his good intentions. He wants to do something nice for Logan, he thinks out ideas based on what he knows Logan enjoys, and he likes to see Logan actually having fun. These are all very emotion-based notions and motivations, which we can expect from Patton. He's inspired by his own emotions in response to seeing the videos online, and takes matters into his own hands to give Logan in particular a special day.

Why Logan? Because Patton's very in tune with emotions and can recognize that Logan has been having a tough time lately. He empathizes with this a lot (considering it's kind of his thing) so he wants to do something that he'd like someone to do for him if he was having a bad day - do something to cheer him up!

This is very sweet and he clearly puts a lot of thought into this idea...but it's not an immediate success because he only really puts the emotional concept and vision into it, and didn't think practically or make his decisions with logic in mind.

Wonder who could have helped with something like that...

First, he approached Logan about making a quick decision, which is not something Logan is ever known to do. Logan resists this right away by questioning him for clarification and is already annoyed to start because Patton is being vague and trying to get Logan to play along without giving consideration to Logan's need to understand a situation and weigh his options before deciding anything. Logan takes no action lightly and always thinks his actions through first, as opposed to Patton, who prefers gut instincts and impulsive action. He doesn't bother to offer Logan the information and time to make a more informed decision, all because he wants to hurry up and get to the fun part!

Patton (like Roman) is someone who is able to envision what he wants, but Logan is someone who actually figures out the steps needed to make that a reality. Without the steps, that vision is but a dream, and without the vision, the steps are just work with no purpose.

These sides need to learn to work together to accomplish goals, not just do things on their own, and this part of the episode gives us a hint towards that notion.

The peculiar way that Patton then explains the situation to Logan is also interesting, as he states that whichever option Logan chooses will be something Patton wants to do, and because Patton wants to do it, Thomas will want to do it, meaning Logan gets to do it, too.

This, by itself, is such an alarming concept to drop into this video, especially with Patton saying it so cheerfully.

In case it's not clear, Patton is implying that he has so much power and sway over Thomas' decision-making process that he can have Thomas do something just because he, Patton, wants to do it. None of the sides should have that level of influence over Thomas, but Patton not only has that power but also knows that he does.

(And to clear up any confusion, this is not the same as Janus saying during his part of the video that he's convinced Thomas to lean into certain thoughts for the day. Patton is suggesting that if he wants something, Thomas will do it, as if it's automatic and doesn't require convincing. That may be Patton oversimplifying it a bit, but it's still indicating his status above others in that sense.)

In this case, he's using it to give Logan a nice day by doing (read: permitting Thomas to do) things he knows Logan would enjoy...but in other context, that's a very dangerous situation, especially since Patton has been shown to make bad or skewed judgement calls in the past due to his biases as well as making some very impulsive, emotionally-driven decisions.

But he recognizes this status that he holds and is attempting to use it for good, so at least there's that?

The next and more obvious part of this section shows that Patton is rushing Logan through the activities chosen, talking over him or cutting him off when Logan questions Patton about this, and Logan grows more annoyed by this as time goes on.

He is not quick to anger, even when he was initially forced into deciding something with very little information, and it takes a few times of being pushed and talked over before he even shows his frustration at all.

It's important to notice this because Logan's anger is not just born of nothing. It's valid because it's a natural reaction to the situation he's in not being properly catered to him.

This is something we see in episodes of the series a lot, and when it comes to the specific moments where Logan has truly gotten angry enough to show it, it's never out of nowhere, even if it may seem that way. If you are properly paying attention, you will see the gradual buildup, where Logan keeps holding himself back, staying calm and collected as long as he can, before the emotion bursts out and he acts rashly (and then regrets it).

Logan's anger has been shown to appear after moments where he is repeatedly cut off, spoken over, and ignored or disregarded completely. Being silenced and skipped over so often, it's a wonder Logan keeps trying at all, but he does. At some point, the last line is crossed, and he explodes with that anger.

While the resulting behavior may be inappropriate or rude, the feelings motivating that behavior are extremely valid, because he's being pushed to this breaking point by others. Anger serves the purpose of making it known when someone's boundaries have been crossed and when they have been wronged, so it makes sense for Logan to experience it at these times.

So, in this short video, Patton is trying to do something nice for him, and Logan can recognize and appreciate Patton's intention, but the execution is filled with the same mannerisms that build Logan's anger - being cut off, spoken over, ignored. It's not that he doesn't enjoy these activities, either, but he's not being given the chance to enjoy them with the way Patton is presenting them to him. It's a recipe for disaster because Logan's needs and boundaries aren't being respected despite the whole point being to do something nice for him.

This is also a tough situation for someone to oppose, by the way! When someone does something nice for you but you honestly hate it, how do you begin to tell them that? You don't want to hurt their feelings because you know they were trying to be nice and meant no harm, but if you don't speak up about the issues you had with it, your boundaries could wind up violated over and over again and the other party would be none the wiser.

Logan must voice his frustration. He has to explain why he's upset. And, thankfully, in this section of the video, he does!

He starts by stopping Patton directly, hand out and everything. He speaks calmly and clearly, using the same tone he used when speaking to the others during DwIT to get them to chill out and not be so impulsive. Logan is using what he knows to work to make his case here, and he tells Patton that he appreciates what he's trying to do. But then, he raises his voice and informs Patton what's annoying him about it, that he can't enjoy these activities because he's being rushed through them. This is a direct communication of the issue at hand and why it's bothering him.

Patton then pauses, reflects, realizes his mistake and where he had messed up, and then alters his behavior to fix the issue.

It's so simple and succinct that Logan, while still annoyed, seems confused that Patton actually listened to him and by how easy it was to find that resolution.

And I think that's our next piece of foreshadowing, as well.

Logan has been holding back about his genuine anger and frustration over how he's treated by the other sides and Thomas. He feels ignored and only utilized as a tool, as if he were a book rather than a person (or the metaphysical manifestation of one, at least).

These are not feelings that have only sprung up recently, either - this has been happening for a very long time without Logan ever addressing it.

Until he does, the others won't realize the impact their words and actions truly have on him. He needs to speak up and the others need to listen and adjust accordingly.

With the way Patton responded in this part, though, perhaps this shows that they may have an easier, calmer solution in store than one might initially anticipate, but we shall see.

Speaking of foreshadowing, during the times Logan is shown in the library throughout this part, he is reading a book titled A Gentleman in Moscow by Amor Towles. Knowing past easter eggs and hints, it's likely this is not a coincidence.

Having read the book myself, I think it's very possible this is a potential nod to something that may occur soon within Logan's upcoming arc (whenever that may happen), as the book happens to deal a lot with the concept of imprisonment and finding ways to live through adversity.

In the book, the main character is put on house arrest in a bustling hotel in the city, but he's relegated to a cramped attic space and had left all of his books away from home so he cannot access them, because if he dares to leave the hotel, he'll be shot dead. So he stays inside, and he self-reflects because he now has a lot of time to think. He gets to know the people who work and live in the hotel, how their lives are so different than his own had been and continues to be. For quite some time, he feels the true punishment of his stay there, how the whole world outside is moving on so fast, but he is stuck inside, removed from it. He becomes effectively useless, unable to be or do anything for others (outside of giving amazing wine pairings for meals, of course), but he stays true to himself despite it all. He remains his charming and intelligent self, he makes new friends, he finds ways to be happy despite being trapped there.

The most popular quote from the book is one that says, "if a man does not master his circumstances then he is bound to be mastered by them." And while the main character in that story manages to make the best of his life and circumstances, we know that Logan is still struggling with his fate right now, being trapped within Thomas' mind as someone who cannot fully explore his own interests, who has less and less purpose since Thomas left college, and feels less respected and listened to every day.

Logan has to find a way to obtain happiness despite his circumstances, because he can't change his situation, but he can change how he responds to it.

This book may be a clue as to how he finally figures out how to do that.

The outcome of this part of the video with Logan and Patton is a satisfying one. Logan expressed his frustration, Patton listened and was able to correct the issue, and Logan was able to have a nice day after all, which is what Patton had set out to accomplish. There were quite a few bumps along the way, but it was successful in the end!

Now, onto the next part...