#after almost two weeks of going through the transcripts of every episode I finally finish this and the Wilson version

[killjoy-prince]

House M.D. but it's when House says Wilson's name

[hard-boiled-criminal]

Venus Ambassador - 1

Loki x gender neutral reader

Loki tv spoilers

Prologue

You could feel your frustration build as you read through a court hearing where the judge and the defendant just kept going in circles, repeating themselves over and over and you were sick of it.

With a groan, you tossed it back on to the desk and leaned back in your chair, massaging your temples to try and soothe your growing headache.

‘I wasn’t made for all this legal shit,’ you thought, frustrated and annoyed. ‘Couldn’t they have, I don’t know, spiced it up a bit for me at least? All I’m asking for is maybe some more information on these different worlds and species. It’d be good to know what the heck a Daijiq is, not about how “x did this and altered the timeline so we gotta dust ‘em” and all that boring bullshit. They’re just having me read the court transcripts and write documents about how my dimension works. Not to mention making me watch that Hanna-Barbera-esque cartoon and then quizzing me on it.’

With another groan of mental pain you slouched back forward.

“You know what? Maybe I just need a (tea/coffee) break. Yeah, that sounds nice.”

You stand up from your chair and stretch, groaning as your bones and muscles protest at moving after being idle for so long. Thankfully, you were able to easily convince the TVA to provide you with a (tea/coffee) maker, which now sat and a small table in the corner of the room. You purposely placed it in the corner furthest away from your desk so that you’d be forced to get up and stretch your legs every so often, lest your muscles waste away into nothingness.

As your beverage was brewing, two knocks rapped at your office door. Before you could respond, they let themselves in. They held up a manilla folder and gave you a nod.

“New variant case.”

“Thanks.”

They placed the folder on your desk and promptly left. It seems neither you nor the TVA were still quite used to each other’s presence, despite you being here for a month already. You couldn’t really blame them. Afterall, your dimension’s inner workings completely went against their own and their ideals.

With a sigh, ‘more paperwork. Great,’ you head back to your desk with your piping hot drink. Not wanting to pick up that dreadfully boring court transcript you were reading, you decided you might as well take a look at the new file.

You take a sip of your drink as you open the file and gasp, accidentally letting in too much of the almost-boiling drink. You immediately start coughing and sputtering, and your tongue is definitely burned. After your coughing fit subsides, you rub your eyes and look at the file again in disbelief. You had only learned that this was the TVA in the Marvel Cinematic Universe last week; you weren’t expecting one of the characters to be here as a variant so soon!

Loki.

Drink forgotten on the desk, you grab the file and rush out of the room. You couldn’t let your anxiety take over now, not when you had the chance to meet the Loki. If we were talking about problematic favorites, then they were number one on the list. ‘I mean, they’re a villain and they’re hot. What was I supposed to do? Not simp over them?’ You knew Loki would be here eventually, having seen the trailers for the tv show, but when you arrived here, you had no idea what point of the timeline you were at. The show hadn’t aired yet, so you have no idea what’s to come. That thought makes you both nervous and excited.

It doesn’t take you long to reach the circulation desk. You hand the file to the person sitting there, and a bit out of breath you ask, “that variant… where are they?”

They give you a strange look before looking through their own files. “It looks like they are currently with Agent Mobius in Time Theater A, floor 2WE.”

“Thank you,” you hurriedly grab the file and speed-walk to the elevator. You’re not about to risk running through halls filled with armed TVA that could vaporize you with a single tap from their zappy sticks, especially since it seemed many of them didn’t quite like you. Luckily, there’s an elevator close by and you get there quickly, waiting for it to come to your floor after hitting the button. As soon as you confirm the elevator is empty after the doors open, you rush in and hit the button labelled ‘2WE.’ Now stuck with nothing to do but wait, your mind finally has a chance to catch you up on all the anxiety you forgot about—all those doubts that started to build up, wondering if this was a good idea. You start to pace around the small space as nerves get the better of you, nearly jumping out of your skin when the elevator dings and the doors slide open. There’re people rushing about, like always, and you do your best to squeeze past them to Time Theater A.

You slip through the theater doors as quickly as possible, letting out a quick sigh of relief as soon as you’re out of the crowd. You look up, and there he is, sitting on the steps to your left, face in hands and tesseract beside him.

He looks so… lost.

“Um, are you okay?” You asked without thinking, immediately berating yourself in your head. ‘Stupid! Of course, he’s not okay! They just got kidnapped by the TVA and now look at them! He looks so… despaired? Unsure? Like everything he thought he knew was a lie? Again?!’

He glances up at you, slightly lifting his head out of his hands and raises an eyebrow.

You stand there awkwardly for a couple seconds, not quite sure what to do. ‘They seem like a tea person; I should’ve brought tea… wait, shit, I don’t have a thermos. There’s no way I could bring some tea all the way down here without spilling it all over myself and—okay, you know what. Fuck it,’ you leave all caution to the wind and walk over to him, sitting on the steps to his left.

“…that was a stupid question, wasn’t it?” you said, letting out a single self-deprecating huff of laughter. A moment of silence passed between the two of you. You take a deep breath. “It’s okay to feel things, you know. It’s also okay to let others see that you feel things. I know that it’s hard, but sometimes it’s easier with a stranger. So, if you want to, you can…vent? Fuck, sorry, I can’t think of the other word for it, and you don’t have to do anything you’re not comfortable with—actually, you know what, forget it, just forget I said anything at all and now I’m rambling and making a fool of myself—okay, deep breaths.”

You felt absolutely mortified. He you were, tiny insignificant mortal you, trying to comfort a literal deity who you may or may not simp for and making a complete fool of yourself. This time, it’s your turn to bury your face in your hands. You want to scream in frustration at yourself, but there’s no way you’d do that in front of them. You peek at them between your fingers to see that he’s looking at you with confusion written on his face.

“Heheh… sorry about that. I tend to ramble a lot… especially when I don’t know what to do,” you take another deep breath and turn to look at them. “But where are my manners. I’m (y/n), nice to meet you—"

“Loki,” Agent Mobius cuts you off as he enters the room, wielding the phaser stick.

‘This… this is not a good situation right now, is it?’

Hey. I know some people (like myself) like to be added to the taglist so… if you wanna… lemme know and I’ll slap your name on it. Ok. So. I’m going to try to update this weekly as the episodes air. Maybe biweekly if I need to cut some chapters in half because they’re long and I wanna post what I’ve finished so far. But maybe, just maybe, as we get further into the series, I’ll drop some little omakes here and there, small fluffy interactions…

[ootori-sibs]

Kyoya's second shot

Episode two: The shadow council

The week passed without anything notable happening, Haruhi and Tamaki were a lot better with public affections, and it truly disgusted Kyoya, Haruhi didn't even seem to care that much about the king's affections- always seeming so disinterested in her godly boyfriend.

But that would soon change, he could get Tamaki the love he deserved. It was Friday after all, and everyone he'd emailed had agreed to show up. He watched the other hosts gathering their stuff to leave after he'd gone over the budget and weeks profits with them, he felt a fizzy sort of feeling- excitement. It was the first time in literal months he'd felt like this, usually he just felt sickened or hollow. He was almost excited to feel excited! He knew being evil would make him feel better!

He only had twenty minutes until everyone arrived, so he quickly made his way down into the second hall, it was still huge, but a lot more modest then the main hall. He set up a table, with a chair for everyone, making sure to set seating arrangements that would be the most efficient for how each person could contribute to the discussion. He set up his whiteboard, read to present his ideas in slideshow format as he was used to with the hosts- it truly was the best way to convey information to dummies. He even lit candles instead of using the chandelier, he knew the first thing to being an effective villain: presentation, and he knew that candles would go a long way to presenting his plans- especially considering his demographic. Of course he needed to accommodate the more morally correct party that would be attending, and the best way he saw to do so were via the snacks served at the meeting; chocolate chip cookies, small garlic crackers, apple slices, and some watermelon treats he'd picked up from a commoner store- specifically for the commoner.

Before he knew it, there was a shadowy figure in the corner of the room. Kyoya sighed, staring right at it. "Step out of the shadows would you Nekozawa, I hope you're not planning to usurp my title." He joked calmly, causing the mage to jump, not expecting to have been spotted so soon.

"My, my, Ootori-san, awfully perceptive aren't you?" Nekozawa sculked out of where he was hidden, heading slowly towards the table. "I'm intrigued to know what you have in store for this meeting of yours, not to mention finding out exactly who else you've invited." He sits down in his designated seat, looking over the snacks that had been presented.

Kyoya chuckles at that, inspecting one of the watermelon treats he'd picked up. "Well-"

"The president of the black magic club meeting with the school demon lord? Now this is a scoop." Ah, Komatsuzawa was here. Kyoya glances towards him, nodding curtly.

"You were looking for a conspiracy, were you not?" He questioned, knowing all too well the answer. "Sit down," he invited, gesturing to the designated chair set out for the head of the newspaper club. He watched as the Akira took his seat, looking around curiously and clutching a little clipboard. "You don't need to take notes, I will provide transcripts after the fact."

"Yes, well, I would like to take notes of simple details I note during the meeting, I know you'll be doing the same Ootori, I don't doubt the hypocrisy but I resent the businessly attitude towards your scandals."

"It's not a scandal until it's published, Komatsuzawa." Kyoya raised an eyebrow at him, knowing too well how he would have to reign this boy in. Akira wanted nothing more than to expose Tamaki for whatever he could, and Kyoya refused to let that happen.

"I hope you know I lied to my brother's face for you, why didn't he know you'd invited me to a meeting, what are you planning?" Chika Haninozuka stood there, still in his karate outfit, hands on his hips. When he noticed all eyes were on him, he began to walk towards the table, looking around.

Kyoya smiled. "Thank you Chika, I appreciate the lie." He gives a small bow of his head, knowing that lying to an older sibling was nowhere near the pain Chika made it out to be. "To answer your first question; your brother would be highly disapproving of my plans. He- and that goes for all the other hosts- cannot know what goes down at these meetings. Understood?" That last part was spoken to all of them, and it was a clear threat. He had mirrored the tone he'd heard his father use on his own underlings many many times.

Clearly it worked, he saw all three of them freeze in place, eyes like frightened animals. Kyoya felt something, a rush of… power. This must be how his father, even his brothers, felt every day- Kyoya had to have more. He felt a smirk resting on his face, going to grab his black book when he heard the door behind him open.

"Oh, uh- am I late? Sorry I had to get changed first!" Here came the commoner, Arai was running just a little late, but Kyoya was just glad he was here. He watched in amusement as his other guests' expressions turned from surprise to confusion at the sight of the commoner they'd never seen before.

Kyoya himself just smiled and gestured to the commoner's seat. "Not to worry Arai, we wouldn't start without you." He watched the poor boy take a seat and went straight for the watermelon snacks as predicted, Kyoya took a quick note before the meeting.

19:19 - Everyone has arrived, the meeting shall begin. The commoner was late. Chika made Honey aware that he was staying late, but did not provide the real reason.

"So," Kyoya began, hands tucked behind his back, "I'm sure you're all wondering why I've called you all here today?" There was a resounding murmur of curiosity and Kyoya continued. "Well I'm sure you're- nearly all of you at least, are familiar with my-" he coughs a little pointedly at that, "interests?" He watched both Umehito and Akira exchange a look, almost looking concerned, and he sighed, before turning to Chika and Arai, who both have no clue what he means. "Well to put it lightly, as much as I see her as a friend and equal: Haruhi is my enemy." That was the most honest Kyoya has ever verbally been, and he watched in what was almost fear, as each and every one of them clocked on to what he was saying

"Oh now that's one hell of a scoop!" Akira really couldn't keep his damn mouth shut could he? Kyoya shot a simple death glare at him, but was quickly distracted by the sight of Umehito pulling out one of those little wooden cursed dolls. Kyoya sighed for a second time.

"Look, I didn't want it to come to this, but something must be done-" -or he was going to lose his goddamn mind, that part stayed silent. "So I've come up with a plan, one that will benefit all of you in both the long and short term." The moment their own benefit was brought up, each of their eyes went wide, greedy for more than they had- all except the commoner. Typical.

Arai had frowned, crossing his arms slightly. "I'm sorry, could you explain how Haruhi is your enemy? Sorry again if I sound dumb, I'm not quite understanding..?" Oh of course, Arai couldn't have any way to be aware

"Well you see, Haruhi has a boyfriend. That boyfriend just happens to be-" Kyoya attempted to explain, being completely interrupted by Nekozawa, rude as usual.

"- Souh-san, president of the host club and the person Ootori-san's been in love with for the past...year? Year and a half?" He pondered the maths quietly, Arai's eyes widening with every word.

He turned to Kyoya in mixed shock and indignation. "You want to steal her boyfriend? If you knew him longer why didn't you ask him out?" ...commoners are so daring…

There was complete silence from the other three, hell- even Kyoya himself was shocked into silence. His rage was very quickly reaching it's point, fists clench. "Oh. Oh I'm sorry, why don't you go up to the guy that never shuts up about 'making every woman happy' and tell him you've been in love with him from the day you met him? See how that goes?" He let out a hefty sigh, taking his glasses off and running a hand through his hair. "I didn't even know he was bi until he started asking for advice on how to confess to her." That was probably the most painful of Kyoya's life that evening, that stabbing pain was unbearable yet he couldn't say a thing to Tamaki about it.

He put his glasses back on to see poor Arai shaking like a terrified feral cat, maybe he'd been a little snappy with his words… he looked around to see everyone else wide eyed too. "...my apologies, I'm not sure what came over me just then." He coughed awkwardly, switching his slideshow on and pulling out a pointer to help demonstrate. "Let's just get to the matter at hand shall we?" He smiled.

The plan was simple and they all had a part to play, poor Arai clearly had a lot of objections but was too shaken to voice any of them, Kyoya would have to discuss it with him afterwards. The snacks were gone pretty fast, luckily Kyoya managed to take a couple for himself between explanations, surprisingly the watermelons were the most popular- most folks there never having tried commoner's food before. Akira seemed more than excited to have so many opportunities to publish articles that were sure to go viral across the school and maybe further, Umehito was definitely up for some spooky happenings, the moment Chika heard he got to fight Honey and win he was on board, and Arai… if Kyoya was honest, Arai was probably just too frightened to object. He was definitely the weakest party there: Chika could kill him easily, Nekozawa had more than enough 'power', Akira had all the connections he could ever want, and Kyoya… was an Ootori- not to mention being a high ranking person in Ouran if his own volition. Even one of them had enough money to completely ruin Arai's life, and enough spite to do so if pushed. It really wasn't all too fair on him.

Two hours had passed by the time Kyoya finally finished laying out the details of his plan, at least the main overview. Turns out, without Tamaki to reel him in, Kyoya's plans can get a little over detailed- that was where the devil was after all. He smiled, putting his pointer away. "-and that would be where we part ways. Any questions?" He looked at the four of them, waiting for someone to say something, Chika visibly frowned, raising his hand.

"How does this help us at all?"

Kyoya knew this question was coming and he relished in its arrival, clicking to the next slide, with a picture of each of them, labelled with what they would get. "Well it's obvious what I get, but what you get, Chika, is both victory over your brother, but the knowledge in which you'll be annoying the crap out of him." As a younger sibling himself, he knew full well what that sparkle in Chika's eyes meant, the tiny Honey clone was more than on board. "For Nekozawa; to chance to exercise your powers and befriend Tamaki like I know you've been failing to do, trust me- it's alright." He chuckles a little, they were in similar situations, albeit Umehito's was a platonic one. "For Komatsuzawa it will be publicly, I know how you've wanted it so much, not to mention you're finally getting permission to cover the host club- isn't that what you'd asked me for?" He knew he was right, and he knew that Akira knew he was right. He was giving the boy what he'd previously denied him. "And for you Arai…" he chuckled, "our little commoner friend here gets his childhood sweetheart. It's clear you still have feelings for her." He couldn't help but smirk as Arai's face turned pink.

"I still respect her more than that!!" He squeaked out, still trying to pretend he had pride. All Kyoya had to do was raise an eyebrow and he sank into his seat.

Kyoya gave a curt bow. "Alright then, that would conclude our meeting. We're all in agreement of what we're doing, those of us with tasks will complete them by next week, when we will meet again- this time over video call." He watched them all stand up and prepare to leave, staying silent until they were all almost as the door. "Farewell then, I'll see you soon."

21:46 - The meeting has concluded, everyone has agreed to their parts. I will now stand by for Nekozawa's part to be completed.

He made his way home after clearing up, or rather, he made his way to the limo. His bodyguards wrapped him in his blanket the moment he sat down, making sure he was alright. He appreciates that someone cares about him, even if they're paid to do so, so he let them have the remaining snacks from the meeting. They seemed happy with that, so he let his mind wander on the journey home.

Next thing he knew he was laying in bed, it was late at night, he must have fallen asleep. He looked to his side to see a bowl of commoners ramen with a note explaining that the cooks had already left for the day. Kyoya sighed, taking the bowl over to his sofa, slowly eating his food. It was a cold night, but this cheaply made food was strangely comforting to him.

He gazed out his window, the moon was high. He was usually awake at this time, sure, but it felt different now- it felt almost lonely. The dawn of a new day felt so far away now, and the arms of his beloved friends felt further. He knew he was doing them wrong, but he couldn't see any other way to keep himself afloat. He had to be happy again, he had to. This was just how he was going about it. But the sinking guilt, the swallowing loneliness enveloped him gently but mercilessly, and he couldn't breathe for realisations.

His friends might never forgive him, he may become ostracized from the only community he's ever really had, and for chasing happiness no less. His methods were underhanded and his motives were wicked, his family might finally be proud… but Fiyumi at least would not. His loving, caring sister… would she be mad at him? For being unable to sacrifice his own happiness for his friends? Would she call him stupid? Selfish? Would she tell him he deserved all the pain and guilt he felt? He felt she would be right. He's done nothing but plan yet, he hasn't hurt his friends in the slightest. But he still felt incredibly guilty, incredibly empty…

He looked down at his bowl of ramen, it had gone lukewarm. He sighed and put it down on the table, laying on his side. He could turn the lights off, he could turn the heating off, he could turn off so many things, but he couldn't turn off his own thoughts, he couldn't turn off his tears.

[sheliesshattered]

I’m still chipping away at these two Doctor Who stories I’m trying to finish. Yesterday I added 300 words to Time And Relative Dimension, and the day before I added 200 words. Not huge word counts by any means, but they were the right words in the right places, so it was a lot more forward progress than those small totals imply. 

I’ve got almost all of Time And Relative Dimension stitched together now, there’s ~200 words at the end of the section that need to be woven in still, and I need to find a note to end the story on -- one that works both as a segue into the Last Christmas one-shot that I’ll be posting after this one, and as a lead-in to the one-shot for In The Forest Of The Night, which I plan to come back and write early next year. Depending on how the words are flowing today, I miiiight even be able to finish it in the next day or two and post it over the weekend. Fingers crossed anyhow.

I haven’t touched the still-untitled Last Christmas one-shot in the last few days, since I’ve been focused on trying to finish Time And Relative Dimension, but I did rewatch the episode, and I definitely have my work cut out for me. There are a couple of sequences that need to be changed significantly (the first scene, Clara’s dream Christmas, the final scene), but those are the scenes I’ve focused on so far, anyway, and have the most written for. Most of the rest of the plot will go similar to the episode, so chakoteya.net’s episode transcripts will be a huge help in chewing through those scenes, I think.

Still hoping to get it finished and posted in time for Christmas, but I am going to have to be serious about writing every day/evening for the next several weeks to get it done in time. Wish me luck. :P

[vfdarkness]

Paisley, or: The Man Who Stands In The Shade Of The Cyrpress Tree - AVFD S1E7 transcript

INTRO

Dark ambient drone.

RYDER

You’re alone in an elevator at work. It comes to a sudden, unexpected stop. The lights flicker off. When they come back on, you are surrounded by tall, strange beings.

A beat.

RYDER

You need my help.

Intro music fades in.

RYDER

This is A Voice From Darkness.

ACT I

Intro music fades out.

RYDER

Hello, as always this is Dr. Malcolm Ryder, parapsychologist. I apologize for the long break after our last episode - right after coming back from a hiatus no less. But our studio has received calls, emails, and tweets asking for me to respond to wild theories regarding my involvement in two long missing persons - siblings Julian and Miranda Holloway.

A beat.

RYDER

I will not dignify these rumors on this show. Later we will be taking calls, however we will be screening them first to make sure no one is simply trying to get on air to shout-out their internet conspiracy theories about myself.

A beat.

RYDER

First - it's time for National Alerts.

National Alerts music plays.

RYDER

National Alerts. A dangerous text-adventure computer game from the 80s has found it’s way onto the internet. Titled “The Decadence of Farboshia” - Do not download the game. Do not play it. Every copy should have been destroyed in 1985 when dozens of players disappeared. It’s unclear how it got online, but it’s there. At the Ravenswood library there was an incomplete walkthrough of the game. I don’t recall many details - but the player begins the game as a pauper traveling across the ruined kingdom of Farboshia - collecting objects of the aristocracy so that they will grant you access into their hidden sanctum while the rest of the kingdom falls apart. The players who disappeared in ‘85 are believed to have finished the game - as all their computer screens showed the same final screen - pixel art of a luxurious room in a state or decay. Misshapen creatures in golden masks surround the player's character who appears frightened by these figures. I repeat: Do not search for or play The Decadence of Farboshia. 

That is the only National Alert we have this week.

National Alerts music ends.

RYDER

Do you have a supernatural question but don't want to call into the show? Maybe you're merely curious about a matter - like a small, intense red light that manifests above your bed as you try to fall asleep... No, actually that's dangerous. That's a bad example.

If you're ever experiencing that - please do call into the show right away. But - if you have a question you're merely curious about and would prefer to write into the show feel free to email us at avoicefromdarkness@gmail.com or tweet us @vfdarkness. On that note, from Twitter, Phil asked us - "Dr. Ryder, what was your first supernatural encounter?" Well that's kind of you to ask, Phil. The Ryder family has been adjacent to the supernatural for several generations. My grandfather, Duncan Ryder, like my sister now, was a professor of occult studies. I suppose many grandparents like to perform magic tricks for their grandchildren - pull coins from behind their ears and other simple sleights. My grandfather perhaps took it a bit too far. One night when I was seven years old, he led me to his study to show me a black-bladed knife. At that point in my life I'd been told about the supernatural but was never a witness to it. He turned on a bright desk lamp that cast his shadow across the floor and against the wall. With black blade in hand, and without warning, he bent down and severed his shadow from his body. His dark silhouette then moved about the room on its own - threw books from shelves, knocked over furniture, all the while my grandfather and I laughed.

A beat.

RYDER

Then, without warning, his shadow drifted towards me with its hands outstretched. My grandfather stopped laughing. I backed away -frightened. My grandfather whispered something under his breath and reached out a hand towards his shadow - but his shadow ignored him.

As I crept back, its fingers grew longer and sharper till they took up a large portion of the room. I found myself trapped in a corner. The shadow now hardly resembled the man it'd been cast from. It was thin and long with talons. I looked towards my grandfather for help. "That's enough now," he threatened. But the shadow continued on its course. The dark mockery of my grandfather raised its talons into the air... to strike me... My grandfather lunged at his desk lamp... he missed the pull-chain but knocked the lamp off his desk. The light bulb bursts and the room fell into darkness.

A beat.

RYDER

I woke up in the guest room late the next afternoon. I asked my grandfather about his shadow, about the black blade... but he feigned ignorance. His body cast a shadow. A normal one that resembled him and only moved when he did. He suggested I must have dreamed the whole incident. Only... later that day I snuck into his study. The books were all back where they'd been before the shadow'd thrown them. The furniture too. No broken lightbulb shards were scattered across the floor. But... the lightbulb in the desk lamp was different - a different size and wattage - than it had been. It'd been replaced.

A beat.

RYDER

Years later I again asked my grandfather about the black-bladed knife. He did not deny the reality of the incident. He apologized for what had happened years before and for lying. I asked him what happened to the knife. He refused to tell me. When he died, he made no mention of it in his will.

It was possibly one of the more dangerous talismans in his collection, and there's no accounting for it. Well, Phil, that was my first encounter with the supernatural. I hope that satisfied your curiosity.

A beat.

RYDER

Our next question comes to us from Eli. They write, "Dr. Ryder, I keep having intense dreams of a tower rising through mist in the northeast. As it rises an island in a lake disappears. And then everything - everywhere - goes dark... I think I'm dreaming of the end of the world. Am I?" Well, Eli, I've met dozens of people over my career who've claimed to predict the future from their dreams. I believe dreams are powerful - we'll see an example of that shortly in Today In Odd America - but I've yet to see a demonstrable case where a dreamer predicted a specific future event. I wouldn't let your dreams worry you too much. That's all the questions we had this week. Onward to Today in Odd America.

TODAY IN ODD AMERICA

TIOA music fades in.

RYDER

Today in Odd America we find ourselves onboard the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt - or ‘the Swanky Franky’ as some sailors called her. The ship’s location - “Yankee Station” - off the coast of Vietnam. The year - 1967.

A beat.

RYDER

Our story involves two sailors who worked the night watch. A second class culinary specialist by the name of Rodgers.

And a third class hospital corpsman named Quincy. Rodgers ran the aft mess deck from the late dinner to breakfast. Quincy stood watch in Medical over night. But both would take a smoke break around 0200. The smoke deck could be a lonely place at that hour. Frequently it was only Rodgers and Quincy out there at that time. Over weeks and then months of meeting they became friends. As they'd smoke they'd talk - about what they missed back home. Girls mostly. Complain about their chains of command. They had these conversations nearly every watch. But one night, Quincy met Rodgers and something was wrong. His eyes searched out into the water. He was quiet and didn’t respond to anything Rodgers said. Rodgers dismissed it - Probably didn’t sleep well, that’s all - Rodgers thought. Quincy was no better the night after. If anything - worse. Rodgers asked him what was wrong. “A dream I had,” Quincy said. He wouldn't elaborate further.

A beat.

RYDER

The next night, Quincy met Rodgers on the smoke deck in his dress blues. There was no reason to wear that uniform out to sea unless you’re going to captain’s mast. Rodgers asked Quincy if he was in trouble. “None at all,” he said. His eyes were glazed over. His voice monotone. “In fact tonight is a night to celebrate,” Rodgers asked him what for. “For the past few nights, I’ve talked to this woman,” Quincy said. “She’s beautiful. The most beautiful woman I’ve ever met. And she loves me. And I love her.” “We’re out to sea,” Rodgers said. “There’s no women within miles of the ship.”

“You’re wrong,” Quincy said. “She follows us, beneath the water.

She has the most beautiful yellow eyes - almost luminescent”

“Quincy, you’re sounding crazy,” Rodgers said. “She’s perfect, Rodgers. In every way. She said she heard me when I dreamed. Heard my thoughts. Heard my memories. Everything about me. And she loves me. Everything about me, Rodgers. In my dreams - I’ve spent years with her already. It’s time. It’s time I go to her.” He walked closer to the side of the ship. “Don’t go doing what you’re thinking of doing,” Rodgers said and crept behind his friend - afraid to make a sudden move.

“Come with me,” Quincy said and offered his hand. “I’m sure there are others like her beneath the water. One of them will hear your thoughts and dreams and think you’re perfect too. Wouldn’t that be so much better than all this?”

Rodgers clutched Quincy’s hand and pulled him away from the side of the ship. Tried to put him in a bear hug. He screamed, “HELP ON THE SMOKE DECK. I NEED HELP ON THE SMOKE DECK.” But while some of Rodgers’s focus was on getting help, Quincy’s sole effort was to escape Rodger’s grip. And he succeeded.

A beat.

He jumped.

A beat.

RYDER

Rodgers called man overboard.

But before he did… he looked out into the water. For a moment -just a moment - he thought he saw shining yellow eyes in the water. Staring up at him. But they disappeared. A search and rescue operation launched. Quincy’s body was not recovered. Rodgers told his chain of command what Quicny had said - told anyone who'd listen.

Rodgers was flown off the ship and sent to shore-side medical. Ship doctor's dismissed his rantings of a yellow eyes in the water and Quicny's story as grief or perhaps a psychotic break.

A beat.

RYDER

But after Rodgers left the Roosevelt, eight more sailors leapt overboard - their bodies never to be found. Files on the overboard deaths the Roosevelt experienced remain classified to this day.

A beat.

TIOA music cuts out.

RYDER

And now back to our main show.

ACT II

RYDER

All right, we're back and we have a caller on the line. Why don't you tell us your name and what supernatural problem you're facing.

DANIELLE

I'm Danielle ... and... my wallpaper.... there's something off about it.

RYDER

Danielle, I believe you've called into the wrong show-

DANIELLE

(interrupts)

No. No - I haven't. Sorry. Let me explain: I buy and flip houses. No, I mean, that's not true. I'm an accountant. I don't make that much money. Maybe I'm not a very good accountant? But I watch a lot of HGTV. Shows where people buy and flip houses, and I thought, "Hey, I could do that.

That looks exciting and fun and profitable." So I bought a fixer-upper sight unseen. And then I went to it... and now I've seen it. There's this *intense* wallpaper pattern that's in every room.

RYDER

(interrupts)

You still haven't convinced me you meant to call into my show.

DANIEL

(blurts out)

There's a man in the wallpaper.

A beat.

DANIELLE

In the paisley pattern. The wallpaper in every room is paisley.

RYDER

(curious)

Go on.

DANIELLE

I got the keys to the house a few days ago and have been coming by after work. The first night, a lot of the lights were broken and I couldn't see the interior all that well. The next night, I came with new light bulbs. That's when I found out there's paisley wallpaper everywhere. Someone must've really loved that pattern. That second night, after I put a bulb in the master bedroom, there was something different about the paisley design in the room. Underneath the... teardrop? - the main part of the pattern, whatever it is...

RYDER

A cypress tree.

DANIELLE

I'm sorry?

RYDER

The primary recurring image in paisley is a cypress tree.

DANIELLE

(joking)

I thought you said I called into the wrong show?

RYDER

Paisley has occult connotations. Not unlike the pyramid with the eye on the back of one dollar bills. But please, go on with your story.

DANIELLE

Oh... Well... In the master bedroom's wallpaper pattern, there was a man next to all the cypress trees that repeated throughout the room. I'd never seen that design before. Not that I've ever really taken the time to examine paisley patterns... but something about it wasn't right. The man... I guess he was leaning against the cypress tree.

RYDER

The man who stands in the shade of the cypress tree.

DANIELLE

That's what people call him? The man in my wallpaper?

RYDER

He has different names in different cultures, but that's the most common. Continue.

DANIELLE

The man - he was just simple lines. Not a lot of detail - like the rest of the pattern in that room. The man's face. It moved so slowly... I thought I was imagining it. A visual trick of some kind. But his face turned toward me. And he blinked. The light bulb broke, and the room went dark. I put a new bulb in, but after I did the pattern had changed. There was no longer a man standing next to the cypress tree. I ran out the room. Ran out of th house. I've been afraid to go back since.

A beat.

RYDER

Well I'd be frightened to if that happened to me.

DANIELLE

What is he? The man who stands in the shade of the cypress tree? Is he a demon or spirit or something?

RYDER

Do you know where the paisley design comes from?

DANIELLE

(uncertain)

Jane Austen times? It feels like a pattern Mr. Darcy would have in Pemberley.

RYDER

Far older. And Persian. The cypress tree design comes from the Zoroastrians. The origin of the man who stands in shade is less clear. Strangely despite the Zoroastrian roots of the cypress tree, the Abrahamic faiths offer the most popular explanation for the man in the shade. Apocryphal Gnostic texts claim a son of Cain snuck back into the garden of Eden to eat from the tree of life which granted immortality. For attempting this, God cursed Cain's son to forever stand beneath the tree - a cypress tree. And so to this day he remains.

DANIELLE

Even if that were true, why would he be in my wallpaper?

RYDER

Mystics, warlocks, magicians of all types have used the paisley pattern as part of rituals to channel him. Mostly in attempts to gain everlasting life. I imagine the previous owner of your house was doing such. Do you know what happened to them?

DANIELLE

No. No, they disappeared and the house was foreclosed. The ritual they had to do to summon the man in the shade... is it hard?

RYDER

Extraordinarily so.

DANIELLE

So that means my wallpaper is... valuable?

RYDER

That's not a question that is even relevant. We need to destroy all the paisley in your house to unlink the man in the shade from there. Now, I know a-

DANIELLE

(interrupts)

No. I'm not letting you help me.

RYDER

You called into this show looking for my help.

DANIELLE

No. I mean. Not that kind of help. I don't want you sending creepy spiders to me or whatever you did to the last person who called into the show.

RYDER

That was a special circumstance. And in this case nothing like that is even-

DANIELLE

(interrupts)

No. I don't trust you. I don't want you coming to my house. Or sending anything to me that might hurt me. And besides... maybe I should get a second opinion. See if some other supernatural person thinks maybe the wallpaper might be worth something. I mean, I bought this place to make money.

RYDER

Danielle, you cannot-

Hangs up.

A beat.

RYDER

Danielle, if you're still listening, I'd advise against doing whatever you're thinking of doing. If you put out an ad on craigslist or anything on the internet claiming you have a connection to the man who stands in the shade - you will bring the wrong sort of person to your door. Those who seek immortality are willing to sacrifice anything - and anyone - to get it. Feel free to call me back if you want the situation handled properly. I promise you'll come to no harm.

A beat.

RYDER

And that is all the time we have for our show this evening. Feel free to reach out to us on twitter @vfdarkness with any otherworldly questions you have or call in next time on A Voice From Darkness.

Outro Music.

[thelostcatpodcast]

THE LOST CAT PODCAST TRANSCRIPTS: S01 EP02: The Worry Dolls

SEASON 1: EPISODE 2: THE WORRY DOLLS

Episode released 1st July 2014

http://thelostcat.libsyn.com/episode-2-the-worry-dolls

My lover bought me worry dolls. They dance for me every night, and cry when they think I am not looking.

THE LOST CAT PODCAST BY A P CLARKE, EPISODE 2, THE WORRY DOLLS

My lover bought me worry dolls as they could see the situation with my cat was getting me down a bit.

What worry dolls are are little stick figures about an inch high with bright clothes made of coloured string wrapped around their bodies. Their heads and hands are just the top of the sticks.

How worry dolls work is, last thing at night, you tell them your worries and then put them beneath your pillow. They will take away the worry from your sleeping head for the whole of the night, giving you comforting dreams, and a fresh start in the morning.

So, after the wine, I took them from their box, laid them out in a row on my hand and whispered my worries to them.

“I am worried about money. I am worried that my lover does not love me. I am worried about my cat, which is lost.”

Then I laid them out in a row on my bed, put the pillow over them, and lay my head down to sleep.

They did not work as I expected at all.

Late that night, long after the clocks stopped working, I was awoken by movement beneath my pillow. So I sat up in bed, staring down through the gloom and the wine at the pillow, and saw it pulse like a sea cucumber.

I lifted the pillow and found the worry dolls all in a row, moving as if to music, up and down and side to side. They would partner up and spin about each other like perfectly weighted moons before moving on to the next. They formed a circle and, each rotating slowly around their middles, they moved around the circle they formed on my sheet. Once to the left, and once right.

They formed back into a line, and began again.

I watched them do this three times. They began to slow and I worried they were tiring. I leant in close with my ear right over them, and I could hear the tiny pulls of the string slipping on itself, I could hear little creaks of the straining wood, and I could hear the miniscule clicks and knocks where the binds were loosening.

So I put my lips as close to them as I could, I said “thank you.” And I gathered them and put them back in their box. They made no sound I heard then and, happy they were resting, I fell soundly asleep until late the next morning.

I could not tell you of what I dreamt, but I felt better than I had in a week. I am not sure I trust those who can recount their dreams with any detail.

So that morning, in the light of the day,  I looked very closely at all the little worry dolls in my hand. And I could see that the string was frayed and mended, knotted and re-knotted. I could see that the sticks were splintered in places and mended by new loops of string.

These were not new worry dolls. I was not their first owner, and mine were not the first worries they had dealt with.

Who’s worries had they been tasked to ease before mine? What had made them feel like they had to work so hard? What was the size of those worries?

I dug up fresh string – blue and yellow and green – and put it in their box.

I looked closely at them as I did, looking for some clue and I found, in amongst the knots of string, tiny slivers of a shining thread, almost filament thin. They shone as if flecked with metals - silver, gold, something purple.

That night they had wrapped the fresh string around themselves to strengthen their bonds, the shining threads almost completely hidden. The worry dolls looked strong, and refreshed. So I lifted them from their box, and whispered my worries to them once more.

“I worry about the future. I worry that I do not love my lover. I worry about my cat, which is lost.”

Then I put them beneath my pillow and went to sleep.

I remembered a dream, or some of it. What I dreamt was I was sitting at the table in my garden during the summer because it was warm. My cat was sitting on the table, and he was ignoring me.

Was that a good dream?

And when I looked closely at the worry dolls the next morning, I could already see a discolouration in the string, and the faintest smell of burning, as if from friction.

I left them in their box that night. I could not face the idea of one of them breaking. And deep into the night I could hear them weeping, and it warped their sticks.

So on the fourth night I put them beneath my pillow once again, whispering my worries as I did.

“I worry about anti-biotic resistant strains of virus. I worry that it is worry that gets in the way of love. I worry about my cat, which is lost.”

And I noticed they had woven some of my cat’s hairs into their clothes.

I had to find out where the worry dolls were from, and showed them to my house-mates.

“I recognise those threads,” said one. “There’s only one person round here has material like that. It hangs as curtains in her front window.”

“That’s amazing,” I said.

“I hear she hangs them as a warning.”

“A warning?”

“Well i’ve heard… She’s a witch.”

“You’re using that word.”

“Well it’s what I’ve heard.”

“Where does she live?”

“You shouldn’t go.”

“Where?”

“124 Cherry Lane.”

And I went, taking the box of worry dolls with me.

At the end of the high street, down a cul de sac,  I found 124 Cherry Lane. It was the entrance to a large Edwardian house, but nothing else. Not the house, just the entrance, Around it was just air.

You could see the next road over, behind it. The walls of the surrounding houses towered over it. Curtains of a strange material, flecked with shining threads of silver, gold and something purple, hung behind the one tiny window.

I knocked three times. And before I finished the third knock, the door opened. And an old lady stood before me.

“A young man,” she said. She said it like she was telling me who I was. I straightened up.

She looked me up and down, and looked at the bandages around my right foot and said “I do not keep cats in the house.”

She spoke like someone who had spent so long getting what she wanted that she mostly chose not to these days.

“You have something for me,” she told me.

“I think these are yours,” I said and I brought out the box of worry dolls, and showed them to her.

When she saw them she cried.

“Come in,” she said.

Her hair was silver and gold and bunned-up loosely at the back of her head by two thick chopsticks painted in black with flowers. She wore endless shawls and a dress of that same material, flecked through with shining thread. She looked like an almost impossibly ancient lady, doubled over, and with skin like parchment.

I went in.

The house was tiny.  Inside there was a narrow hall I could barely fit through leading to nothing but a spiral staircase leading down.

A dozen umbrellas formed a bouquet by the door that I got tangled in. A huge dark mirror, blackened almost to the centre with silver’d cracks dominated one wall.

“It makes the place look bigger,” she said. When I looked into it I saw three of me, standing in front of a huge fireplace with a dog sleeping on one side.

“There’s not much left of what there was. But I do not need so much these days. Please, follow me.”

And she disappeared down the spiral stairway. I followed. It spiralled down twice, three times, getting ever narrower as it did. Down and down it went. I counted one hundred steps until I was almost in darkness and then I stopped counting, as this is what a child does. When I stopped counting the stairs ended.

“Finally,” she said.

The stairway opened out to a forest.

With grass on the floor and huge mushrooms everywhere, the room was bounded by huge trees I could not see through. I followed their branches up and saw the sky like a tiny window between their leaves. The surrounding houses looked down like quizzical battlements peering in.

In the middle of the room were two comfy chairs, a lamp,  a loom, and a coffee table.

I opened my mouth to begin speaking, and she held up a bony finger and I stopped.

“First things first,” she said. “You have come to me and, in return, I offer you a glass of wine.”

Now it would have been rude to refuse. So I sat in one of the infinitely deep chairs in the forest of her living room and she brought out a bottle of deep red liquid with no label from a knot in one of the trees and poured it all into two huge, thick-glassed goblets. And together we drank a glass of wine…

<music plays: The Song Of Madelline, written by A P Clarke, performed by A P Clarke and W Walker-Allen>

There once was a girl who was made out of snow

and she would leave puddles wherever she would go

and when she was happy she started to cry

and of course loved a boy who cheated and lied

When he left for nothing, she was hard as a stone

so these things go

and the drunken priest watched her stand at the end of the pier

heard her singing a song and then just disappear

Well a storm came from the sea and settled over the town

and it ripped up the roofs and made a terrible sound

and the bell of the church blew around for a day

and then fell on the priest and then tolled him away

the wood ripped and thundered and swirled through the air

all through the year

and the rain turned to snow and then buried them deep

then the snow turned to rain and they drowned in their sleep

and it rained rocks and dogs and a frozen red wine

and the town learnt to sing the song of Madelline

well they drank until morning, and then wrapped themselves warm

they called on her name and then headed in to the storm

they hauled up the nets that they laid in the street

for the thousands of fish that lay dead at their feet

and the boy he came home, grew rich and grew old

so these things go

but the rocks and the wood and the snow and the wine

and the town all sing on to the song of Madelline.

It was good wine, too.

“May I look at them?” she asked.

“Of course,” I said, and handed them to her.

She breathed in deeply as she held the box.

She said “these were once mine.”

She sat up then, impossibly straight in her chair, and fixed me a calm gaze and for all the world she looked as glamorous as any movie star. She spoke like someone who really, really did not care whether I found her attractive.

And she told me the story of the worry dolls.

“I have been young,” she said “And used it well. I had my loves and wove spells to make those loves perfect. I took them, and I left them, as I desired. Perhaps some would call me selfish, and I am sure that they are right. I have had, in my time, everything I could want in a life.

“But I am not cruel. Every love I left I wove a new spell for, to ensure their lives had what they wanted too. I loved them, and did not want them sad.

“This is what I gave them, and this is what they took: a life lived by spells is bound by spells, and if I did not keep the weaves fresh, the spells would come undone, and leave my loves with tatters where their lives once were.

“So I made these worry dolls, and I worried on my loves, to keep the spells fresh and tended. A lifetime of spells and a lifetime of worry.

“And now I am old, and I have had to sell much of what I own – to get rid of what I no longer want, and to keep that which I still need. Much was sold in large boxes, as lots. The dolls had been placed in one by an uncaring carer and I lost them. Without the dolls, I could not worry about all those I had loved, and I have been in despair ever since.”

I said “I do not really believe in magic.”

“It is as real as it is.”

“That isn’t much of an answer.”

“It wasn’t much of a question, young man.”

“Why do the worry dolls cry?”

“They were made that way. They were made to ease the worry of the heads that sleep on the pillows above them. If they do not dance, they can not let whatever is in them out.”

She leant forwards, “do not feel too sad, young man. If you want to think of it that way: we are made a particular way too.”

“Is this poetry?”

“This is how I live my life.”

She spoke like someone who did not feel it necessary to explain herself to me. Considering yourself the centre of the universe is an arrogance of youth, but it is a comfort of age.

“I want to return the worry dolls to you.”

“You understand that they are yours.”

“If they are mine I can give them to who I please.”

“That is indeed your right.”

“Then I give them to you freely.”

“Then it is my right to only accept them if I give you something in return.”

“You don’t have to.”

“It is my right, young man.”

“Then I accept,” I said.

“Tell me. Tell me what you are worried about,”  she told me.

And, for some reason, I felt a need to tell her. As she eased back into her infinite chair, and opened the box of worry dolls, I said “I worry about my cat, which is lost… and about my lover.”

She was looking closely at the worry dolls, laid out upon her hand. She had noticed the hair of my cat wrapped around them.

“I think the dolls will help you with your cat. Your lover,” she said, “is your business.”  

As she gently brushed at the string of the dolls, I could see them moving beneath her finger, leaping up to meet her.

“But let me tell you this: whatever made you think love was happiness?”

I couldn’t think of anything to say.

“Worry is love too,” she finished with a wry look back at me.

And I found myself smiling.

She placed her hand flat upon the other and put the worry dolls back in their box.

And then The old woman was suddenly leant in close to me, right over me in my impossibly deep chair. And she kissed me on the lips.

She said, “the worry dolls will be safe with me, and I see your wine is done. And thus, so are we. I have one last thing to ask of you, which shall put me in your debt forever more.”

“Ask it.”

“Do not come back again.”

“But I’d like to check in on you.”

“Do this for me, young man. Never come back.”

“I promise.”

And her face broke out in a wet-eyed grin and she looked just like a baby.

“Excellent.”

She took the empty wine glass, showed me to the stairs and beckoned me up.

“Take an umbrella, ” she said.

The next thing I remember I was on the high street with an umbrella in my hand and it had just started to rain. So I put the umbrella up and walked home.

Over the next few days a strawberry shaped mark in my skin has appeared on the side of my mouth. It is slightly hollow, as if some of my flesh is gone. It is not sore. My lover says it is nice, and kisses me there.

That night I worried about my lost cat, and that was fine. It was lost, after all.

And I haven’t gone to see her again. And I won’t.

I hope the worry dolls are happy.

THIS HAS BEEN EPISODE 2 OF THE LOST CAT PODCAST, WRITTEN AND PERFORMED BY A P CLARKE. COPYRIGHT 2014.

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING

Links:

thelostcat.libsyn.com

twitter.com/LostCatPod

thelostcatpodcast.tumblr.com

facebook.com/lostcatpodcast

soundcloud.com/a-p-clarke/sets/the-lost-cat-podcast

apclarke.bandcamp.com/releases

[afterpinkdiamond]

An Indirect Kiss S1E24

This episode is so sweet and really starts to move the driving plot of the series. Steven is sad and distant as he, Connie, and Lion set up for a picnic by the lighthouse above the temple. Lethargic and disinterested, Connie does her best to get him to talk about what’s going on, asking if he’s okay and why there’s a fence around the cliff. Steven begrudgingly agrees to tell her about the fence. 

The story flashes back as Steven tells about the last week. Amethyst is messing around by the cliff, teasing him to make him think she is going to fall. Steven gets really upset about the idea that she could hurt herself as she does flips and acrobatics to show off. Eventually, a rock on the edge of the cliff comes loose, similarly to how Sugilite was taken down, and Amethyst falls, embarrassed, straight onto a rock. Steven runs down to check on her and she now has a googly eye. Garnet and Pearl rush over. Pearl demands to see Amethyst’s gem, to which Amethyst replies that she’s “fresh” and Garnet forces the issue by restraining Amethyst and moving her shirt away from the now cracked gem. Amethyst says their being rude because she’s fine. Pearl asks how this happens and Steven tells her, causing Pearl to decide to finally put up a fence. 

Steven tries to end the story there, as the story about why they have a fence, but Connie is now concerned about what happened to Amethyst. She presses Steven to finish the story, trying different methods to make him talk. He eventually and reluctantly agrees to tell the rest but only if he can try on her glasses. Connie asks to trade him his juice for his glasses. Steven agrees and warns her that the juice is mostly backwash, key foreshadowing for the episode, and they make the trade. He puts on the glasses and asks how he looks, a refreshing change from the “wow you’re so blind!” that most glasses wearers hear, and Connie replies that she has no idea while squinting at him. Steven continues his story. 

Steven finds the googly eye to be entertaining and asks what’s so bad about Amethyst having fallen since she falls all the time and Pearl explains that it’s bad because Amethyst’s gem is cracked. When Steven asks what they do about that, Pearl gets emotional and says they had Rose. Here it is introduced (and explained as an empathetic emotional power by Garnet) that Rose/Pink has the power to physically heal damaged gemstones. It’s not yet clear whether this is a Pink Diamond exclusive power or a Diamond Authority power. “Legs From Here to Homeworld” it seems that the idea of healing gems is foreign to Yellow and Blue, and yet they are partially able to help reverse corruption. It may be that the other diamonds have never tried to heal broken gems, favoring to weaponize shards in suits of armor like in “Frybo” or defective gems in gem powered machines- like Lapis’ mirror or the obelisk from “Serious Steven”. Regardless, Pink knew that she could and actually did heal cracked gems, and this may be tied to how the Rebellion lasted so long. Damaged troops didn’t need replacing, they just needed healing. The Crystal Gems then also had all the more reason to stay loyal to Rose, seeing how the Diamonds abandoned or imprisoned those loyal to them.  Garnet tells Steven that she believes he has the power to heal gems as well, and Steven goes full magic girl, trying to heal Amethyst but suddenly is unable to cry. He blusters that he’s just too tough and Pearl reminds him about the snakes he was crying about that morning. The Gems decide to go to Rose’s healing spring since Steven isn’t crying healing tears. Meanwhile, Amethyst is now talking backward as the crack worsens.

As they warp to the spring, Pearl is explaining to Steven about the fountain in the center, but they are stopped by brambles overgrowing the entire place. Pearl freaks out in the cutest bit of projection I’ve seen. She is obviously shaken but tells Garnet they can’t let their perceptions of Rose be tainted by some overgrown weeds. She then looks disgustedly at the thorns, calling them “directionless, pathetic, clinging things...” while grabbing on to Garnet and “reassuring” her that everything will be okay. Pearl has a meltdown simultaneous projecting her worry on Garnet who isn’t visibly affected by the brambles and projecting her own insecurities about life without Rose onto the bushes that Rose planted and tended to but let go wild when she made Steven. Pearl tries to hide her panic by looking for a way to the fountain while Steven continues trying to force himself to cry. Amethyst suggests using pain, so Steven tries to prick himself on the thorns, which start to come to life and attack him. Amethyst jumps up and knocks him out of the way, which Pearl scolds her for. Amethyst gets frustrated with being misunderstood and tries to walk away but glitches and walks into a rock, cracking more. Pearl panics and Garnet punches a stone through the brambles. 

I needed that.

The gems get to the fountain, Amethyst now relying on Steven for support while walking. They find that the fountain is not running as it should. Steven sees the statues of Rose and cries out that he’s getting emotional. He tries to cry on Amethyst’s gem- and Steven interjects into his story that he has a headache. Connie demands her glasses back and the end of the story so Steven complies.  Garnet and Pearl go to find out what’s wrong with the fountain leaving Steven to watch Amethyst. He starts talking to the statue about how he doesn’t know how to feel about his mom because everyone knew her except him. He wishes he could be saddened by her old fountain but he’s confused. He wants to grieve the mother he never knew, but because he never knew her he’s not actually saddened by her loss. Here Steven is starting to really express the confusion of identity he feels in relation to Pink. Who she was doesn’t personally affect him, outside of how others, especially the gems, treat him. Self Identity is a huge theme in the show as a whole- nearly every major and minor character undergoes some form of arc about who they are and who they want to be. Many of these arcs begin because of  Pink Diamond’s influence on those around her. I could write a whole post examining the shockwaves Pink had throughout the characters in the show, but at the epicenter is Steven who doesn’t have an emotional connection with Pink, but contains the most integral part of her in his own body. He’s starting to feel the outward effects but doesn’t have the emotional ties to process his identity in relation to her. Connie is very moved by Steven’s plea to his mother and his empathetic desire to be able to help others.

The bushes surrounding the fountain start to attack Steven and the discombobulated Amethyst. Steven runs to find her gem to get it away from the thorns lashing out at the two of them and ends up worsening her crack after bodyslamming her into the dry fountain. He realizes he might actually lose her forever and gets really upset, having messed up every attempt to heal her and making her condition worse almost everytime. She glitches again and speaking forward but slowed down says “Haha you care about me” still trying to tease him as she is about to shatter. Steven starts to cry in earnest and asks to be allowed to be a magic healer. A single teardrop lands on the cracked gemstone- and does nothing. Steven is mad and yells at the Rose Quartz statue when the statue suddenly starts to cry, overflowing the fountain and pushing back the bushes. The bramble bloom into Roses and Steven sees a vision of Rose reaching down to him through the lacrimal fluid. He surfaces and she is just a statue again. Amethyst is healed and Garnet and Pearl reappear. They correct Steven when he claims to have fixed the fountain and Pearl scathingly tells him that he’ll never be magical and the gems never want anything to do with him again. 

Connie interjects that Pearl wouldn’t say that and Steven says that’s how it felt. Connie offers him back his juice box but he doesn’t want it. He explains more about how he feels pressured to be like his mom and his fears that if he never fills her place in the team they’ll stop associating with him. Connie tries to reassure him that would only mean he’d be like her and that he doesn’t need powers to be with her. They share a moment as Connie sips the juice and immediately feels a headache from her glasses. She takes them off and realizes her vision has been corrected to 20/20. Both are in shock and Steven wonders if he healed her. They look to the juice box and Steven realizes he has healing spit. He’s overjoyed with the newfound power and thanks Connie, completely brushing over her turmoil at how to handle this drastic magical change to her life. Steven runs to tell the gems his discovery while Connie decides to hide her fixed eyesight by popping the lenses out of her glasses. Steven discovers his healing ability and completely glosses over the fact that he healed Connie, a completely organic being, instead of a Gem. This is huge, and Lion is the evidence that Pink had some ability to heal organics as well. 

This episode is really cute. Major props to Amethyst for still being completely in character while being completely incomprehensible. Take the time to look at a transcript of the episode, she’s still acting like an edgy older sister the whole time. After Steven’s little monologue to the Rose statue, she tells him to cheer up giving off some real “What’s Your Problem” vibes. The title “An Indirect Kiss” works on two main levels. On the surface level, Steven and Connie sharing spit through the juice box is literally an indirect kiss- they are clearly having a moment where their feelings are bubbling near the surface as Connie reassures Steven that she likes him for who he is and not who everyone thinks he’s supposed to be- which results in her healed eyesight and the discovery of Steven’s newest magical ability. On a second level, getting washed in Rose’s Spring and seeing a vision of her reaching for him is like Steven getting an indirect kiss from his mother, and I conjecture that he didn’t have healing spit until that moment healed a small part of the emotional divide he feels between him and his mom. I always loved the idea of a magic boy with magic spit because its gross but its a perfectly boyish manifestation of a power so heavily feminized. The motherly healing tears of sorrow are transformed into kidlike healing spit. Steven is taking what his mother was and unintentionally making that his own, sometimes improving but at the very least manifesting her powers as his own. He’s still a long way from “Reunited” but he’s starting to internalize the pressure to be Rose and finding his way of being better than Pink could have ever hoped to be. 

tsyhtemA “!yrc ti ekaM ...attog uoY ...nwo sti no yrC ...t'nac ydob ruoy fI !yeH”

[dailyaudiobible]

03/24/2019 DAB Transcript

Deuteronomy 2:1-3:29, Luke 6:12-38, Psalms 67:1-7, Proverbs 11:27

Today is the 24th day of March. Welcome to the Daily Audio Bible. I'm Brian and it is a joy to be here with you. Let's all reach out together and twist the knob and push it open and walk through the threshold into a brand-new shiny, sparkly week together. And this will be the last full week in the third month of the year 2019. Next week we’ll be into the fourth month if you can believe it. So, this week we’ll be reading from the God's Word Translation and we just began the book of Deuteronomy yesterday. The book of Deuteronomy is three discourses from Moses. These are the final things that he had to say. And kinda as we talked about that yesterday, some of this is review but generational changes are happening. Moses is about to recede and depart into history, while Joshua is about to take the children of Israel across the Jordan River into the promised land and lead them forward. Now there on the east side of the Jordan River and this book Deuteronomy is the last of what Moses has to tell to the people before that break, before he becomes a part of the past, a part of their history and they move forward into their future. So, today Deuteronomy chapter 2 and 3.

Prayer:

Father, we thank You for another day in Your word and we thank You for a new week opening up before us and we are eager for all that You will speak to us through Your word each and every day of this new week. And Father time…time is such an interesting porous thing. Sometimes it seems like it's taking forever and moving like sludge, sometimes it feels like we can't even get our feet on the ground we’re spinning so fast because things are moving so quickly and one of the things that roots us to now is this daily rhythm of coming and allowing Your word to speak into our lives what we need for today. And, so, we thank You for this and as we live into this, the last full week of this third month of the year, as we prepare to finish the first quarter of the year already, we thank You, we thank You for all that You have spoken into our lives and all that You have transformed inside of us and all that is yet to be done as You continue the work of sanctification in our lives. Come, Holy Spirit we pray. In Jesus’ name we ask. Amen.

Announcements:

dailyaudiobible.com is the website, its home base, it's we’re you find out what's going on around here. So, stay connected in any way that you want to and in any way that you can.

If you want to partner with the Daily Audio Bible, if a what we’re doing around this global campfire every day as a community is bringing life and good news and encouragement and diminishing the isolation that the pace of life can bring to us at times, if that is bringing life to you, then thank you for being life-giving back so that each and every day we move forward with the rhythm of the Scriptures in our lives. There is a link on the homepage at dailyaudiobible.com. If you're using the Daily Audio Bible app, you can press the Give button in the upper right-hand corner or, if you prefer, the mailing address is PO Box 1996 Spring Hill Tennessee 37174.

And, as always if you have a prayer request or comment, 877-942-4253 is the number to dial.

And that's it for today. I'm Brian I love you and I'll be waiting for you here tomorrow.

Community Prayer and Praise:

Hello everybody, hey this is Annette from Oklahoma City. Things are going pretty good, thank you all for praying. Okay, so I’m riding my motorcycle, me and a husband there - old man…that’s so rotten - but I have a certain route that I really like to take and it’s from Midwest City which is just east of Oklahoma City and it’s kind of some back roads up to 66 and makes a little circle around over from Luther Oklahoma to Pop’s. It’s kind of a stop that all the motorcycle community likes to stop that. It’s a lot of fun, but anyways, it’s kind of funny because even though I take this route the same kind of every time, it’s funny because I listen to the Community Prayer a lot of times because it’s on the weekend and three times in a row I have heard people at different locations in the same spot, like a Christie from Kentucky, my sister, I hear you every time right before I get to this certain barbecue place and it’s this really sharp corner right before I get to one of these places. But Lee from New Jersey, it is hilarious. I have heard your exact phone calls in three different times in the exact same place in the place that I took the picture at and I think it is 174th and the Hogback road, which I think is hilarious since your praying for gluttony. I’m like oh my gosh it is the hilarious, but thank you for praying for gluttony because, you know, you stopped me from buying ice cream the other day and here I am trying to, you know, get in shape after the winter. And, yeah, I think…I think your prayer for gluttony has struck a lot of chords with a bunch of us…

Hi everybody this is Candace from Oregon. Let’s pray. Lord, we thank you, we thank you so much for a place where we can all share in each other’s joys and burdens and be interceding for each other and hear the word together every day. Thank you, Lord. Thank you. Please bless Brian Hardin and the entire team. So, I want to ask everyone, if you’re alone please raise your hand up before the Lord or if you’re not alone just turn your palm upward as we agree in this prayer. Lord we bring to You those who have debilitating fatigue. Lord I pray that these people who have become very, very weak would discover the secrets in their each individual case, the secrets about what they should eat or drink and when and how to really listen to their body, get the right sleep the same time every day, and exercise, and fresh air. Thank You that winter is finally backing off. We can get outside Lord and receive all the healing that You have for us. I rebuke all foul spirits that are harassing anyone of these people and Lord I thank You that Your Holy Spirit is here and that Your strength is made perfect in weakness. This is no obstacle to You. Lord, shine Your glory through these very people Lord in Jesus’ name we pray. And thank You that we belong to You and You belong to us. In Jesus’ name.

Hello my name is Ruth and I’m calling from Australia. My husband and I are retired pastors and a friend of our family, he’s a married man, I would say his wife and children are not Christian’s either. He has been suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder for 20 years. He has three young beautiful little girls and the wife has managed to get therapy etc for years but he’s getting increasingly worse. He is suicidal, wanting to kill himself and our family member that knows them well has appealed for prayer. He is now gone out of state had a bad episode over there. He is wanting to kill himself and now contacted his wife yesterday in Australia and said he’s not coming home. So, we’re appealing for our family Daily Audio Bible to pray. I’ve been listening to this audio Bible series for only a few months and I am so impressed. I am putting a lot of people in contact with it and I’ve been really blessed. Please thank you for praying for Benjamin, his wife, and children and especially they’ll come to know Jesus. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Lily, I’m from Charlotte North Carolina and this is my very first I’m calling. I’ve been listening to Daily Audio Bible for about two years just recently heard my husband Zee on the prayer request section of March 20th and he mentioned how thankful he is for me and how he bought me the More Gathering ticket. I was so surprised to hear his voice on this app. Literally, I’m so thankful to God for him. I’ve been married to him for almost 5 years. I’m 25 years old and every day just so grateful for every year that I…that I get to spend with Zee. He’s so incredible and so encouraging. I’m calling because I have two prayer requests. First, I’m a nurse at the medical intensive care unit, absolutely love my job, but I pray that God just continues to use me for His kingdom and that those who feel like that they just don’t have hope they can find total dependence in Jesus. I don’t know what my next steps are in this career but this ties into my second prayer request, which is so important and could be completely life changing. In about two weeks we will be finding out about something that is basically an answer, a yes or no answer, and I just pray that this will, this answer will be Gods will for our lives and we can just feel absolute peace about it. It’s so important and it could be so pivotal to our marriage, to our life and whatever that is I just want it to be God’s will. Thank you to everyone who makes this possible and to those of you who are going through a health affliction. I just want you to know that your words touch my heart in a special kind of way. I’m praying about you…

[renegadehymnal-blog]

Adventures in Digital #2

The Theory and Practice of Podcast Opera : part 2 (of 3)

An expanded transcript of a Composer Commentary podcast, by Martin Ward, exploring the creation of the digital opera serial Road Memoir.

Whilst changing the Road Memoir podcasting schedule from two to twelve weeks meant that each episode would need to be longer (a choice which afforded the opportunity to explore a secondary character narrative) it also meant that, from originally planning to complete all the writing, recording and mixing before the series began, I would now create and record the opera whilst it was running. I had four episodes written and recorded (but not mixed) before the podcasting began on July 24th and from then on I spent twelve weeks juggling the three jobs of writing, recording and mixing, whilst having to meet the weekly podcasting deadline. This was also the school summer holidays, which put a family camping holiday in the middle of the series, meaning the podcasting of two episodes had to be managed, along with website updates and social media, from my mobile phone (I was determined to leave the laptop at home) on a French campsite with very patchy wifi. They were a couple of stressful days.

In advance, I had made a detailed multi-colour spreadsheet planning the three months work. This changed a little but not much during the creative process and over time the production of each episode settled down into a basic routine that went like this ...

1. Write the libretto.

2. Compose the music.

3. Input into Cubase and edit at the same time, just using piano sounds for now and finalise the tempi.

4. Create Vocal Score in Sibelius.

5. Email VS and an mp3 to Billie Robson, the singer. Giving her as much notice as possible, ideally at least 5 days.

6. Recording session with Billie (in which she sang with the Cubase file and a click).

7. Vocal editing session, sorting through the different takes.

8. Designing and placing the sound effects.

9. Arranging and "orchestrating" the musical accompaniment.

10. Mixing.

11. Mastering (via 3 sets of headphones of differing types, price points and qualities).

12. Mixdown and Data Stamp the mp3 metadata to iTunes standards.

13. Upload and Publish Podcast in Blubrry.

14. Make a pdf of the episode libretto and text.

15. Update my website with podcast widget and libretto pdf.

16. Social Media and email promotion.

This timetable, duplicated twelve times, was organised to dove-tail so that on any one day I might be working on three different aspects of three different episodes. By the midway point it had become second nature as to what was needed and what came next and the spread sheet was more or less redundant.

Planning work flow like that is important to just get the job done but I think it's as important to plan the artistic and creative goals and methods before you begin. As an inexperienced librettist, I'd devised a four-point method for the libretto (the sung words) of each episode, which I hoped would bring balance to the content and allow for poetic character insight - which is essential and unique to opera - whilst keeping the story moving forward. To that end, this is the checklist I printed at the top of each scene as I was writing...

Every episode should contain each of these in some small part :

1. STORY : move the development of the story forward.

2. MEMORY : contrast present experience with past experience (as the story is set in the near future, remember that  character "past experience" is "everyday experience" for the audience – play on that).

3. REFLECTION : allow time for pause and poetic musing on changes in predicament and/or surroundings.

4. ACTION : character must take action that moves her story forward.

And in a further note :

Also bear in mind that each of these narrative elements should also occupy a slightly different sound and music world, with unique palettes of sound and music for each – helping the audience in navigating different types of story-telling at a subconscious level.

In retrospect I'm pretty pleased with how the libretto plan turned out and that each episode does demonstrate elements of each of the four forms. It keeps moving forward through the characters actions, with a speed that ebbs and flows (which I like) and there are also moments for poetry and reflection, which, as I've said, I believe is an important aspect of any work that calls itself "opera".

My musical plans ended up taking a slightly different course though. Whilst I made certain to mark the changes of purpose in the text with changes of tone or tempo or colour in the music, my plan to accompany the four types of text with four different, defined sound and music worlds didn't really play out. I think that this was largely due to the addition of the spoken Investigator text, which required a very different sound world to the sung sections. That meant that those sung sections required less contrast within them. Also, once I got into the nuts and bolts I decided that I wanted each episode to explore different groups of sounds, with the piano as the constant instrumental voice. This was a decision in reaction to the sometimes confined musical palette of live chamber opera (where budget always restricts performer numbers). I wanted to explore the far wider range of colours that might be possible with a work such as this. This is clearly the opposite of what my initial plan suggested but it also reflects the conclusion that I came to whilst working on the piece, that what was most important at those moments of change in the text : from Story, to Memory, to Reflection or to Action, was that there was simply a coordinated change in the sound and music. What the sound or music changed to was not actually that important in the grand scheme of things and a freer approach in fact allowed the music to keep moving forward into new ground, as the story and the main character evolved and did the same. I did identify some musical motifs early on but without making explicit connections between them and character or narrative. Instead I used their occasional returns to loosely bind the accompanying material together. With this approach, rather than by recycling a coded palette – which the audience may, or (more probably) may not pick up on – I believe the piece feels more creatively fertile.

Throughout the creative process I entirely avoided listening back to podcast episodes and in fact I didn't re-listen to anything until two weeks after the work was complete. This was primarily because I wanted the music to keep moving forward and I wanted to avoid past musical ideas invading my current thoughts. The story itself is about making decisions in the moment, living with them and moving on. I'm quite into the idea of exploring ways of mirroring story elements in the creative processes I use, so it seemed an apt approach to try to reflect that constant forward story movement in my methodology. Truthfully, I was also a little bit scared I might not like everything I'd done and I couldn't afford to be worrying about that whilst I was writing - with any other piece I would have had the chance to go back and re-write or edit but with this one, once I'd clicked on "publish podcast" it was out there and there was no going back.

By moving away from traditional opera methods it was easy to feel like I was breaking new ground but contemporary culture exists in so many forms that no sooner have I stepped out of "opera" than I'm tripping into another existing genre or artform. With an aural serial like Road Memoir comparisons with radio plays are obvious but, though there are definite similarities, I feel that Road Memoir is a freer artistic expression and I'm particularly glad not to have had a specified episode duration to work to, as would certainly be the case with a radio play. 

I really didn't concern myself with episode durations when I was creating and it's pretty clear to see as the episodes range between 5'39 and 14'05 in length (although the latter was an intentional double-episode rather than a massive over-run) and most episodes are between 6 and 9 minutes long. It was my intention from the start to make the most dramatically important episodes, at the beginning and the end of the series, double-episodes. The first episode had to establish the two voices, both in themselves and in how they fit together; it had to do the same with the sound and music; it also had to explain the Real World history and relevance of mobile phone evidence, the facts of which underpin the whole story; it then had to establish the woman's character and starting position in the narrative before throwing her headlong into the jeopardy which would begin her journey; and it had to finish with a cliffhanger which would hopefully leave the audience wanting to come back for episode two. Listing all that, I'm exceptionally pleased that it was only 10 minutes long.

Meanwhile, I knew from early on that I wanted the final episode to be more like an epilogue, set some time after the rest of the series and tying up at least the question of the woman's survival, if nothing else. Therefore, the penultimate episode had to be the story climax and it also had to finish with a final cliff-hanging point of jeopardy. I liked the idea that the episode would start with a misleading period of calm - the lull before the storm - putting the audience on the wrong foot, before spiralling into a confusing and noisy chaos of words and sound - to really take the listener on a journey within the one episode and hopefully leave them struggling with the weight and quantity of what they'd just heard. In order to achieve all that was going to take time and even without the first 4 minute song, which could almost stand alone as an episode, the following scene, which unifies the two narratives and characters geographically on the beach and in the same dramatic moment (even if they are actually years apart in time) doesn't feel long at 10 minutes given the amount of information and story it holds. There's about thirty tracks of sound effects alone in that sequence. It was a pretty intense week, arranging and mixing all of that.

In the final episode, the main part of which is just for voice and piano, I hope that the use of the piano throughout the series kind of comes into focus. I see the piano as a part of her character, almost on a par with her voice, a constant that remains at the end - as the danger and fear ebb away - and that last episode maybe hints at one of the ways I'd like to imagine the opera working in the future: as a live event, for solo soprano and piano, with recorded sound, music and spoken text.  As self-contradictory as that idea might sound, given my earlier insistence on conceiving and writing a work purely for digital media, I can't help finding myself now, after sharing the final episode, wondering what lies ahead for the piece.

In my next “Adventures in Digital” blog I'll explore what that future might be for this work and draw some conclusions from my experiences in creating it.

[richardrobertsimsuccessblog]

211: Creating a Successful Podcast – Advice from Pat Flynn

Advice from Pat Flynn on How to Create a Successful Podcast

Today I have a treat for anyone who has ever considered starting a podcast (or already has one), because I’ve just finished a Skype call with Pat Flynn about the art of podcasting.

  As I’ve mentioned in the past, Pat’s teaching on podcasting is the number one thing that helped me as I was starting the ProBlogger podcast two years ago. If it wasn’t for him, I probably wouldn’t have started at all.

And so I was very excited when he launched his Power-Up Podcasting course earlier this year, because I knew it would help many more Pre-Podcasters get into this amazing medium.

Pat spoke at our Aussie ProBlogger events earlier in the year (he’ll also be speaking at our Dallas event in October), and during that event we talked about how often I heard ProBlogger readers say things like “I really should start a podcast”.

It’s a statement I hear all the time. But it’s almost always followed up with something like “But I don’t know where to begin”’ or “But I don’t have the right gear” or “But it all seems so overwhelming”.

So I asked Pat if he’d be willing to come on the show and help those in our audience interested in podcasting take their first steps.

Today we jumped on Skype, and I put a lot of your questions and challenges to him in this interview.

Not only that, Pat has also opened up his Power-Up Podcasting course exclusively for ProBlogger listeners. His course opened for just a week in July when a couple of hundred students signed up, but then he shut the doors so he could concentrate on serving that first intake of students.

So this is pretty special. He’s opening it back up for only one week, and only for ProBlogger readers and listeners. You can see what it’s all about over at http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46.

Whether you enroll in the course or not, I encourage you to stay tuned to today’s interview.

In it Pat and I talk about

A tip for growing your podcast audience through Facebook Groups (it’ll help you grow your blog too)

What two of his most successful podcast episodes have been

What microphones he recommends if you’re on different budgets

Working out which format of podcast is right for you

Interviewing techniques to help you get conversations flowing

Surfacing stories in those you interview

Editing podcasts

The pros and cons of seasons vs ongoing episodes,

How to make your episodes sound more alive and energetic

Much much more.

Pat is incredibly generous with his advice in this episode. So whether you take his course or not, you’ll get a lot of inspiration and ideas from staying with us.

Again, if you’re interested in checking out the Power-Up Podcasting course head to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46 where for the next seven days you can enroll. If you’re listening after that seven-day period there will be an option to join his waitlist until the next time he opens the doors.

Links and Resources

Pat’s Course  (Disclaimer: I am an affiliate for Pat’s course but as you’ll hear I’m a genuine fan of what he does.)

Dallas Event

Audacity

Garageband

Libsyn

Buzzsprout

Microphones

ATR2100 from Audio Technica (affiliate)

Heil PR40 (affiliate)

Full Transcript Expand to view full transcript Compress to smaller transcript view

Darren: Hi there. My name is Darren Rowse and I’m the blogger behind problogger.com, a blog, podcast, event, job board, and a series of ebooks all designed to help you as a blogger to grow a profitable blog. You can learn more about what we do at ProBlogger over at problogger.com.

Today, I have a real treat for anyone who has ever considered starting a podcast or anyone who’s already got one, because I’ve jumped on a call today with Pat Flynn to talk about the art of podcasting.

As I mentioned in past episodes, Pat’s teaching on podcasting is probably the number one thing that helped me when I started getting into podcasting. I walked through a lot of his teaching to set up this very podcast. If it wasn’t for him, I have doubts as to whether I would’ve ever started at all.

Earlier this year, when he launched his Power-Up Podcasting course, I was very excited because I knew it was something that would help so many more pre-podcasters, people who wanted to get into this medium. Pat spoke at our Australian ProBlogger event earlier this year. He’ll be speaking at our upcoming Dallas one in October 2, by the way.

At the event earlier in the year, we got to talking about how often we heard ProBlogger readers say things like, “I really should start a podcast”. That is something I hear every week from ProBlogger readers. It’s a statement that comes very regularly, but almost always is followed up with something like, “But I don’t know where to start”. Or “I don’t have the right gear”. Or “It all seems so overwhelming”. These sort of excuses, these challenges, these problems that bloggers face. Sometimes, it’s also followed out with, “But I’m scared. I don’t like the sound of my own voice”.

As a result, I thought it would be good today to get Pat in on this particular episode to talk about some of those first steps that you need to take with podcasting, some of those things that are going to make it a little bit easier for you if you’ve been saying, “I really should start a podcast”.

Earlier today we jumped onto Skype, and I was able to put a lot of the questions that you asked in our Facebook group to Pat and presented some of those challenges that I know many of you have.

Now, Pat was very generous with his time today. We planned to be online for about 45 minutes but we ended up going well over an hour. He just had so much good stuff to say and so I’m very thankful for him. Not only that, he also has opened up his Power-Up Podcasting course exclusively for ProBlogger listeners at the moment. He opened this course earlier in the year. I think it was in July, just for a week, and several hundred students went through that course at that point but he also closed the doors after that week so that he could concentrate on serving that first intake of students.

I’ve twisted Pat’s arm and he is opening the doors just for you. No one else is able to get in at the moment so it’s pretty special that you can have access to that. So if you are interested in taking a course and going a little bit further, head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46.

Whether you enroll in that course or not, I do encourage you to stay tuned to today’s interview because in it, Pat shares a wealth of information. He talks about a tip for growing your podcast audience through Facebook groups that I never thought of myself. I think it would work also in growing your blog. He also reveals what his two most successful podcast episodes have been. He tells us about what microphones he recommends at different budget levels.

We talked about what format of podcast and how to choose the right format for you whether it be an interview or teaching course or something else, more narrative storytelling one. He shares interviewing techniques. I’ve got so much for you out of those interview techniques to get the conversation flowing.

He gives us a question that he asks regularly to help surface stories in those that you interview. We talked about editing podcast. We talked about seasons of podcast, whether you should just go with ongoing episodes. We talked about how to make your episode sound more alive and energetic and we talked about so much more along the way.

Pat has been so generous with his advice in this episode so whether you take that course, Power-Up Podcasting or not, you’ll get a lot of inspiration and ideas from staying with us for this episode today. Again, if you’re interested in checking out that course, Power-Up podcasting, head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46 where for the next seven days only, you can enroll. If you are listening to this after that seven day period, there will be a waitlist there that you can sign up for and he will let you know the next time the doors open.

Today’s show notes are also over at http://ift.tt/2xrR3YO. I’ll link there to all the resources and gear that Pat mentions in the show. Thanks for listening and I’ll talk with you at the end of this episode to wrap things up.

Darren: Pat, you’ve just returned home from Lisbon, one of my favorite cities in the world. I’m curious, when you were filling in your departure and arrival forms, what did you put in your occupation?

Pat: It’s hard. I never know how to answer that question. To answer that question for a nation, I just put entrepreneur and that’s really what I am. Man, Lisbon was amazing. That was my first time in Europe ever. I’m 34 years old and I finally made it to Europe. I was there to speak at an event. It was just beautiful. I attempted to vlog the whole thing, which is an interesting experiment and people seem to be enjoying that although it took a lot of hard work to edit all that stuff.

This is the year of international travel for me. I was at the ProBlogger event. My family and I came over and I spoke in Brisbane, in Melbourne, which was amazing. Thank you again for inviting me. It’s obviously just an amazing time with your people there. And then, later this year, I’m headed over to see Chris Ducker and what he’s got going on in London. I’m traveling, man, this year.

Darren: That’s great. One of the reasons I wanted to get you on the podcast today was the amount of people that came up to me at our event who said, “I came here because I either listen to your podcast or I listen to Pat’s podcast”. Podcasting was a massive reason that people came to our event this year and so I wanted to really drill in on podcasting because it’s something that you’ve been at now since was it 2009, 2010 you started out?

Pat: 2010 although I wanted to start one year earlier. I just got kind of scared of the whole thing. But yeah, I remember doing the workshops. The workshops were fantastic, by the way, where you did these little mastermind groups on day two of the event and a lot of the people who I was sitting at with in the tables were asking me about podcasting so your audience is hungry for it. I’m ready to give you as much as I can.

Darren: Yeah. My first question is do you see yourself more these days as a podcaster or as a blogger?

Pat: As a podcaster for sure. It was interesting because when I started podcasting, it was only every other week that I was coming out with a show. Because again, I was just kind of dipping my toes into it and it was a little bit difficult for me at first to figure things out on my own and I was still blogging three times a week.

But even six or seven months later, I went to an event and I started to meet a lot of fans and people who have read my blog and have gone to my site. They could not stop talking about the podcast. “Pat, the podcast was amazing. I love when you told that story about this.” Or “Oh, when you had that guest on your show, that was amazing”. I’m like, “What about my blog? I blog so much more”. But everyone I was speaking to was talking about the podcast.

That gave me a good clue that okay, maybe I should podcast a little bit more often and then I started to see amazing results from it. This sort of relationship building that happened because of it felt so much stronger than the relationships I was building from the blog. People were coming up to me and they would tell me these amazing things and I wouldn’t even know their name. They would talk to me like we’ve been friends forever and that’s really what the power of podcasting is. So yes, I primarily identify myself now as a podcaster, an award-winning podcaster and a teacher of podcasting and just somebody who’s just fallen in love with the medium.

Darren: You’ve just mentioned a few of the benefits, I guess, there from your experience. But from your students, you’ve now been teaching people how to podcast for a while now. What are some of the benefits that you see in those students of starting podcasts?

Pat: The different students have different results depending on what they’re looking for. The big one, I had a student from my previous enrollment period launch his podcast last week. It’s called Sober Together. He went through a period in his life where he was dealing with addiction and whatnot and he came out with this podcast, which was really hard for him to do.

And already, he’s getting emails from people who he would’ve never reached otherwise, saying, “Thank you so much for creating this. I feel like I have a place of a friend. I have a person I can look up to and who’s helping me through this tough time of my life”.

He was sending me messages of how incredibly thankful he was to have this medium that connect with people on such a serious topic. There are other people out there who have had brands already, who have now seen influxes of traffic come to their site. Many people have been finally able to contact and reach an authority level or an influencer in their space to invite them on their show when otherwise, they wouldn’t have been able to have that conversation with them.

Other people are now seeing clients. If you do any coaching or do any courses, online courses or things like that, it’s a great way a podcast is to get in front of an audience and give them a taste of what it’s like to learn from them. And then of course, if you offer coaching, it’s like, “Hey, you’ve heard me coach this other person or you heard me talk about this stuff. If you want to work with me further, you can get my coaching package”.

Everybody who has gone through my course, who has finished and completed it, is seeing results and it varies depending on what they do and what their offers are. But yeah, it inspires me so much to see people do the podcast much faster than I did when I started because like I said, I had so many hurdles to overcome. I was scared of what my voice was going to sound like. I was scared people who weren’t going to listen or if they did listen, they thought maybe I wasn’t qualified to talk about what I was talking about or they would just stop the show and listen to somebody else but to help new students through that is amazing. I’m just trying to pay it forward.

Darren: That’s great. You’ve mentioned there a few reasons that put you off podcasting when you first started. I’m actually interested in whether you think there are certain people who shouldn’t podcast. I’m trying to give, I guess, a realistic expectation here of is podcasting right for people. Is there anything that you would get people to ask before they decide to start a podcast in terms of things that might actually put them off and should put them off from podcasting? Or do you think it’s for everyone?

Pat: I feel like everyone could start a podcast but should everybody start a podcast? I don’t know. It sort of depends. Just coming from a very honest place, somebody who sells a course on this stuff, it’s like if you know that the podcast is there because it’s a bright, shiny, new object that’s going to take you away from what you know you should be doing because you’re scared of some other thing that you should be doing and it’s hard that you’re just trying something new, then I would say don’t do it because the last thing you want to do is start to fill your brain with all this extra stuff that’s going to take you away from where your focus needs to be.

However, I will say that a number of people have joined the course having lost a lot of focus and then now have refocused that energy into a content medium and a platform that they really feel energized about too. On one hand, it’s like, “Hey, don’t distract yourself”. But on the other hand, it’s like, if you have been struggling to find something that is really helping you spread your message. helping you create a connection, helping you meet other influencers, well then this is the one that maybe you can take energy away from something else and put all that energy into…

And the other thing I would say is that it is not just, “Alright, I’m going to start a podcast. I’m going to click a button and have a podcast of my own”. No. There’s a lot of work involved. There’s a lot of questions that need to be asked and there’s a lot of planning that needs to happen. This is why I created this course. I had a free tutorial for a long time, showing people how to do this but people still needed a little bit of handholding, some office hours to get questions answered.

I would say that if you’re somebody who isn’t going to really commit to the process of getting this up, then I wouldn’t do it. But I think most of your audience, they’re following you because they know that you have the information and that if they take action with that, most of them are committed to do that, then they should be okay.

Darren: Britney asked in our Facebook group about how much time it’s actually going to take. She said she’s busy with other forms of content creation. Do you have an amount of time if you want to do a weekly show that you need to be putting into it and to set it up? Realistically, is it going to take a week, two weeks, a month?

Pat: Well, setting it up, typically, all the students that have gone through my course were just getting all the information they need up front. I’ve had people do it as quickly as two weeks after purchasing Power-Up Podcasting and then I’ve had people spend six months because life has been so busy and they’ve been just consuming one lesson as they can. With lifetime access, there’s no worries there in terms of not getting enough in a short period of time.

Typically, I guess on average, it would take about a month to get set up. Potentially less if you work really hard at it and just devote all your energy to it. You can do it within two weeks. But I would actually say a month is actually perfect because what I teach in the course is not just how to set up your podcast. It’s also how to get found. That’s where a lot of other podcasting courses sort of miss out.

I think that’s my specialty, the marketing put on top of the podcast to make sure that you’re not wasting your time with getting your show up but you’re actually getting results from it like we talked about earlier. What I would recommend is having a couple of weeks to actually start building buzz for your show. Even though you might have it ready and set up, you’re still going to want to tease a little bit.

What I recommend is to create an event out of the launch of your podcast. This is for anything, if you’re creating a blog, if you’re creating a video blog, or a YouTube channel. When ProBlogger happens, Darren, you don’t just open up the doors and say, “Alright guys, come on in.” You tell people months at a time because it’s such a big thing. You don’t need to tell people months ahead of time about your podcast but a few weeks is great to get people excited about it.

You can start teasing clips here and there and you get people ready to subscribe and you might even want to do a contest or a giveaway in the beginning to get some ratings and reviews and more downloads that’s going to help you in the rankings in iTunes.

The nice thing about podcasting is once you get everything set up up front, then all you have to worry now, and you know this Darren, is just producing each individual episode. Everything almost happens automatically after you publish that episode from there. There’s no having to go into iTunes every time and upload an episode every time. It doesn’t work like that.

Your audience knows what feeds are. Podcasts work with feeds and you give iTunes, you give Stitcher, you give Google Play your feed. Every time that feed updates, those directories automatically update and then everybody who’s subscribed to your show will automatically see it in their device the next time that show comes out after they subscribe.

That’s the beauty of the podcasting thing. Your episodes get pushed out similar to how people used to follow blog content on the RSS readers that we all used to have. It’s the same way with podcasting.

But the other cool thing about podcasting specifically is that the way that people consume that content is different than any other content out there, for example, video or blogging. People are consuming podcasts on the go while walking their dog, at the gym, on the plane, on a commute. It’s an amazing way to get in front of an audience where no other content medium can.

Not only that. It’s not just the content type, it’s how long they’re listening. Most people are listening for 30 minutes to an hour. That’s way more than a person would spend on your blog. If you look at the average time people spend on your blog, it’s probably 5 to 10 minutes, on average. People watching a video, it might be anywhere between 10 to 20 minutes for those longer ones. Most videos that are consumed on YouTube are probably within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Tim Ferriss has a show that some of the episodes go over two hours. There’s a Joe Rogan podcast, each episode is an hour and a half. There’s a great podcast called Hardcore History. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that one. Some of those episodes are five and a half hours long and I think that’s too long. I tried listening to that show.

The point of this is people are listening. They’re putting the podcast into their daily lives while they’re doing other things and you talk about a way to build a relationship. They’re listening to your voice. They’re hearing and feeling your emotion. It’s just so, so powerful. Once you get up and running, I would say, and I teach you these techniques. You could probably get an episode out every week on your own in two and half to three hours each week. Almost the same amount of time that might take you to produce a blog post.

I feel now, now that I’ve been doing this for a while, the podcast is just far easier to produce than a blog post.

Darren: I’m completely with you. I know I can outline a teaching episode in 20, 30 minutes particularly if you’ve already written on the topic and you’ve already got a blog post there that you can base it off and update and then you speak to it and people will forgive the mumbles or the little stumbles or you can edit them out later and it takes as long to record it as it takes you to speak it.

Pat: Yeah. Keep those uhms in there. Keep those kinds of things that I just did in there because that makes it more real. I remember when I first started, I tried to remove every uhm, every weird pause, every breath and I listened to the episode and it just didn’t sound real because when you talk to people in real life, nobody speaks perfectly. If they do, I don’t know, it just sounds different and it’s real life. It makes your life easier too because you don’t have to edit all that stuff out and you get better over time.

That’s another sort of side benefit I found of podcasting. I wasn’t a great communicator at first. I loved blogging because I can write and delete and edit and write and delete and edit again. With podcasting, you can do that. But forcing myself to just go, A) saves me time with editing but B) I’ve now been practicing communication by talking into the microphone and now, it’s given me confidence to get up on stage. It’s given me confidence to have conversations and be able to deliver a story much better in a more impactful way. I still stumble every once in a while but like we were saying, that’s how it is in real life.

Darren: A few other questions that we got in the Facebook group for you centered around gear. I know gear is not the most important thing that we need to talk about really.

Pat: It’s so fun to talk about gear, right?

Darren: Let’s talk about gear for a few minutes. Particularly, it’s interesting, Imogen in the group said if you’re a complete beginner and money is tight, do you have any recommendations for why gear would be I guess necessary at first because when money is tight, we need the bare minimum and then maybe if you’ve then got the next level up, do you have any next steps in terms of the improving sound quality and recording?

Pat: The sound quality is really important. People can find your show and you might have the best, most helpful content in the world, but if it’s not sounding great, most people in the podcasting world expect a great sound. Luckily for us, it doesn’t cost very much to do that.

When I teach podcasting, I want to give you the bare minimum amount that you’ll need to spend in addition to whatever it is you might be already investing. People have really loved me for that because I know how it is. It’s tough. But if you’re going to invest in taking the time to do a podcast, you want to invest just a little bit more than a $20 microphone to have great sounding audio because you want people on the other end to really enjoy the audio of your show.

I’m just going to give you the microphone right now that you should be using. It’s called ATR2100 by Audio-Technica. The beauty about this microphone, actually let me click on the link now. I believe it is right now $60 on Amazon, which is amazing. Plus the idea that you don’t have to buy a mixer and all these other boxes with all the dials and stuff. You don’t need any of that stuff. All you need is a computer with a USB plug in and this microphone will work.

It sounds just as good to non-professional broadcasters as this microphone that I’m using right now, which is a higher level one. It’s about $400. It’s called a Hiel PR-40. It sounds just like this one. It’s mobile. This microphone that I have right now, that I’m using here at my office, it’s not portable. It needs a mixer because it has what’s called an XLR connection, which uses a giant cable connection that has these three prongs at the end of it. The Audio-Technica ATR2100 is a USB mic and it sounds fantastic.

That, a microphone stand, you can edit using your free GarageBand or there’s another tool called Audacity out there. That, you can use to edit your show and really, that’s all you need. That and a little foam ball that goes over your mic so that the ‘p’ sounds and the ‘b’ sounds don’t pop in people’s ears when they’re listening. That it. Less than $100. And then for hosting for your audio, $7 a month. That’s it and it’s really, really inexpensive these days to get high quality sound.

Back in the day, when podcasting started, podcasting has been around since the early 2000s and it was for the nerds and the geeks who understood feeds, audio and broadcasting. Now, we’re in an age where anybody can do it and you’re seeing it. You’re seeing shows from people with regular brands up on iTunes competing and beating the big names and now building an audience, building relationships.

As much as I would love for everybody to have the top level equipment, you don’t need that. You can save that money or spend it on going to a conference to build relationships and then invite those people on your podcast, for example, instead.

Darren: You mentioned at hosting, a big no-no is to host it alongside your blog on those servers.

Pat: Don’t host it on your own. Where you host your blog, don’t host your audio for your podcast there too because it’s going to eat up a lot of bandwidth and of course, it’s going to also affect the speed of your website. It might crash it. For whatever reason, you might get for example, an influencer one day might link to your show because they really enjoyed it or maybe you featured them on your show and they were like, “Hey, listen to my show or listen to me on Darren’s show”. And then boom, you get this influx of traffic. Everybody’s downloading at the same time and you’re wondering why your website is slow. And people are listening to your show and they’re going to your website and they’re like, “Why is this website not working? It’s too good to be true. I’m going to move on to somebody else”.

You don’t want that kind of scenario so always best to host your audio files on a server that is specifically for the audio files. There are two that I recommend. The one that I recommend, that I trust more than any other is Libsyn. They’re great. They have been in this arena for over a decade and they’re very reliable. Everything is super smooth and fast there so that’s who I would go with if you’re going to start a podcast. The other one is Buzzsprout.

Darren: Okay. It’s amazing how cheap it is, really, when you think about the bandwidth that’s getting tuned up on a fairly large scale. It’s very affordable to get into. Bret asked how important is it to have things like music, professionally recorded intros, outros, breakers, outwork? How much should you be investing into that? Can you do it all yourself or would you recommend that that’s an area to invest in?

Pat: You can do it all yourself. I did my own voiceover for a while and I produced music in GarageBand and I tested that for a little bit and then I hired somebody else to do it for me. Actually, the intro to The Smart Passive Income, I produced it myself. I just grabbed an audio file from a royalty free audio site and then I just hired a guy to do the voiceover on top of it. You can find people on Fiverr now who are great, for $5 to $10.

There are obviously people at an upper level who can do voiceover treatment for you. There’s a company called Music Radio Creative that can give you the whole package with the music and the intro, the outro, and the sounds and the sound effects and stuff. But honestly, you don’t need that. That’s going to add a little bit of flavor to your show in the beginning and a little bit of professionalism but honestly, if you are there in the beginning telling a great story, you don’t need any of that stuff.

Just tell a great story. Get people into your world and show them what it is that you have to offer them and they’re going to be hooked. From there, then you can add maybe later on, some music and other things like that.

The artwork however, as you mentioned, is really important because people before they listen to your show, they’re actually going to see it first. They’re going to see the artwork and the artwork is sort of like just the first impression so you want it to be great. You can do it on your own. A lot of my students do it on their own using something like Canva or I think PicMonkey is the other one.

I don’t remember the other one that somebody used but you can do it on your own. The file size is quite large actually because it’s for all the systems that podcasts run on including Apple TV. A 3,000 x 3,000 pixel, which is a lot, but what Apple automatically does is shrink that down and make it for iPad, for iPhone, etc.

A couple of things for artwork, you want it to stand out so look at the categories on iTunes and find what other shows are going to be there and find one that stands out. The person I mentioned earlier, Michael, he is in the self-help category and he really smartly chose a yellow color when all the other colors are not yellow at all. His show stands out very, very well.

You also want to keep the text on your artwork minimal because again, when it’s shrunken down and most people are finding them either on a website or most likely on their phones, a lot of times, when there’s too much text, it’s going to be illegible. And then finally, you want to make sure that there’s just something there that resembles what the show is about. It could be a picture of you. It could be a picture of your logo, like yours. It could be a symbol that represents what it is that you do. It can be anything. Really, you just need to get it up there, make it look great and then move on with your show from there.

It’s just kind of a one0-time decision up front and you can invest as much as you want in that but you don’t have to get too crazy.

Darren: With all those things, you can add, change, and upgrade and refresh them later on so don’t get too stuck on that. I’ll show you a way out. I think it’s probably more important.

Pat: Just like starting a blog. How many times do we waste like four weeks on, I just the perfect theme or I just need to get this logo designed. Get it out there. You can perfect those things later.

Darren: Format is another question that I got asked a few times. Interview, panels, co-host, talking head, narrative, there are all these different kinds of podcast and as soon as you dig into iTunes, you can see there’s a huge variety. How do you make that decision? Is it about your personality? Is it what you like listening to? Is it the topic or is it all of those things together? How do you make that decision?

Pat: What I would recommend is go into iTunes. Start listening to a few podcasts and start paying attention and being conscious to the format, the structure, the style, the pacing, those kinds of things. Over time, even just over a day, you’re going to start to realize, well I like this or I don’t like this. You can incorporate those into your own show too and put your own voice, your own spin, your own personality and character into it.

Interview shows are typically the ones that most people do because approaching that, you’re like, “Oh, this is easy. I just have to talk and ask questions and have the other person who I invite in the show produce the content for me”. That’s kind of half true because yes, the other person is going to answer your questions but the most important things when it comes to an interview show is asking the right questions.

I teach a lot of interview techniques and how to go deeper. The one thing I would recommend is don’t just have a list of questions that you want to ask and just only stick to those. My pet peeve, and there’s a lot of popular shows that do this, but my big pet peeve is when you go, “Okay, question number one… Okay. Thank you. Question number two…”. Don’t do that. After they answer question number one, what about like, “How did you feel when that happened?” Just like a regular interview would be, a regular conversation.

When you go to a café with a friend and you’re literally talking to them and trying to discover more things about them, first of all, you’re not presenting them a list of questions and secondly, you’re not just moving on from topic to topic after every answer. You’re going deeper. You’re having a real conversation. That’s a frame of mind that I like to offer people. When you get into an interview with somebody, you could even say this to the person you’re interviewing. It’s a great way to make them feel better about what they’re about to do with you in terms of the interview.

I always say when I bring a guest on, I say, “Let’s just pretend we’re in a coffee shop. I’m getting to know you and we’re just chatting. Don’t worry about the audience. They’re just a fly on the wall”. That typically will get people a little more comfortable to that point where they’re going to share deeper information. The gold really comes three or four levels deep after you ask an initial question. If you move on to the next question too soon, you might not get to that good stuff that’s going to make your show unique versus when other people perhaps try to interview that person too.

Speaking of getting people to say yes to interviews, that can be very difficult. A few tips there I just want to give to you. First of all, asking authors or people coming out with promotions of some kind, they’re likely going to say “Yes” during those times so you can ask them because they’re going to be wanting to get in front of as many people as possible.

I remember when I launched my book ‘Will It Fly?’ In 2016, I wanted to get on every single podcast that I could and so I was saying yes to everybody. Look for authors. If you want to look for a big name, that’s where I would start. The other thing is look for other people who have already done podcasts. They kind of know what that’s about. People who seem to be on many shows are going to be more likely to say “Yes” to new ones.

Also, from there, you can then begin to name drop. If you find an author, for example, and you promoted his book because it was coming out, you reach out to somebody else and you can say, “Oh, I’ve interviewed people like Tim Ferriss or Gary Vaynerchuk”. These people who came onto my show when they were doing certain promotions because I knew they would be more likely to say “Yes” then.

But now, people are like, “Ooh, you interviewed Tim Ferriss? You interviewed Gary Vaynerchuk? You interviewed Darren Rowse? Okay, I will say yes to your show”. The final tip I have for you, related to who to interview would be, you don’t have to interview A-listers. I think this is a big misconception, is “Oh, I have to get the top guys on the show and that’s how I’m going to be popular”.

No. Interview amazing people. There are amazing people in this world who have amazing stories to share, who nobody has even heard of yet. My most popular episodes are not the one with Tim Ferriss or Gary Vaynerchuk or other big names. It’s the one with somebody that nobody has ever heard of before like Shane and Jocelyn Sams from episode I think 122, who are just two people from Kentucky, in the United States, who happen to find Smart Passive Income and talk about how they then transition from being a teachers to online entrepreneurs. That is one of the most downloaded episodes ever because not only are people listening to it because people can feel like they can relate to them because they’re only just a couple of steps ahead versus the A-listers who are out and in stratosphere.

They also are more likely to share it because those people represent the major part of my audience. Don’t just interview A-listers. Interview non A-listers, the B- and C-listers out there. The people who are trying to be up and coming in that space. They’re going to be likely to say “Yes” because they want to be getting that exposure.

Also, if you have a brand already, interview success stories that you’ve helped to create. This something that actually helped promote in my last launch for the podcasting course. I interviewed three students. I interviewed them about what it was like to start a podcast and some of the struggles that they had and of course, just naturally through that, they’re saying, “Oh, and your course was so great because of this and that”. It’s essentially just a testimonial.

Right now, you could probably think of one or two people who you know you’ve helped if you’ve already have a band out there in your blog or videos. Invite that person on your podcast and have them tell the story. It’s so much more powerful than you telling your audience, “Hey, this is why my stuff is great”. Somebody is saying it for you and they’re telling the stories behind it. Listening to their voice, nothing is more powerful in marketing.

Going back to one of the questions related to structure. The other structure to do that’s very easy is just solo episodes where you are by yourself and you are essentially doing what’s almost like a presentation. I remember when I used to do those. I used to script every single word that I was going to say because I was so afraid of missing something or saying something incorrectly or all the random pauses. I didn’t trust myself to share those things.

Some tips I have for you is one, is to understand first what is it that transformation you want your audience to go through? They’re one way and then they listen to your show and they come out a new way. What is that transformation you want them to go through? And then just bullet point the stories you want to tell, the facts, the case studies, the examples, all the things that then support that transformation happening from the point that a person starts to listen to your show to the point that a person ends.

And then, because you have those bullet points and because you’re trusting yourself just like you would in a conversation when those topics come up, you just go. You just let yourself talk about those things. If there are important things like quotes you want to mention, write those down or specific like five items that you want to cover. Write those down too. Don’t script out the whole thing. It sounds completely robotic. You’re going to put your audience to sleep if you do that. Just be natural. Try it.

Also, I need to say this. Your first episodes are going to be terrible. That’s okay. You have to get through that. I think it was John Lee Dumas who has I think 1,700 episodes now. He said that every master started as a disaster. I love that quote. That’s with everything not just podcasting. In order to get to the good stuff, you have to get through that disaster. Just get started.

Those are the two formats that I would recommend starting with. There are other ones such as, there are some people who have a fiction, ones where they’re just literally telling a story as if it’s a book. Other ones are more what’s called MPR style, documentary, journalistic style with interviews on the street with background music. I’ve done that kind of episode before. I think it was episode 138.

I took a recorder to Columbus, Ohio, where my team is and I was like, “Okay, I’m going to interview my team. I’m going to talk about this trip”. The episode ended up being 25 minutes. It was a good episode. There’s a lot of music. It felt like you were in Columbus interviews. You got to meet my team. It took eight hours to edit that episode. That’s why I haven’t done many of those. Because when you record an interview, you record the interview and then you can record maybe the formal intro later and boom! You have it ready to go. That’s formatting.

Darren: Pat, you were just so easy to interview. I said this at our event. You just answered six of my questions without me even asking one. But here’s my next question then. What happens when that doesn’t happen? When you have an interviewee who is awkward or is having a bad day or is just not in the flow with you, haven’t had that coffee? Sometimes, it just grinds and it’s hard to get them to reveal. It’s hard to get them to share something of themselves. It’s hard to get them talking. Do you have any tips for getting the flow going with someone particularly when you’re interviewing them?

Pat: Thank you for the compliment, first of all. Secondly, I’ve gone through that process of interviewing and having it be very difficult to get great information to get great information from them. One word answers even if it’s an open-ended question. Just a couple of sentences and then that’s it and then kind of a random pause. It’s difficult sometimes and honestly, I’ve done a couple of interviews where at the end, I’m just like, “Wow. Okay. That’s actually probably wasn’t a good recording”.

I’m not saying this to this person but I’m thinking it and then I often go back to them and I say, “You know what, I don’t know what it was. It was probably me”. It’s like I’m breaking up with them. “It wasn’t you. It was me. I just didn’t feel the energy. I’m really sorry. I’d love to perhaps reschedule this with you or perhaps find a way to make you more comfortable with the show but the way the content played out during our interview, I can’t publish it. I have really high standards for the content that I deliver and again, I think it was mostly my fault.” That’s typically the way that I do it. I’ve only had to do that twice out of over 300 interviews that I’ve done.

It doesn’t happen very often because I know some other strategies. For example, like I mentioned earlier, you’re making people feel comfortable with you when they are getting on the Skype call with you if you’re using Skype to record, which is what we’re using right now actually. Making them feel comfortable about that.

When I get people onto the show, I say, “Okay, we’re not recording yet because I want people to know when I’m going to hit record so just really quickly, an example might be like, “Hey Darren, thanks for coming on the show today. I’m not recording yet. I just want to check our levels first. Make sure you’re comfortable and again, remember, we’re just going to have a casual conversation just like we’re in a coffee shop so no worries there. Can I answer any question for you before I hit record?”

Again, this is like really setting this person up for comfortability, a little bit of control. You’re able to ask a few questions if there are any. “Oh, how long is this going to go for?” “Oh, 30 minutes.” “Okay, great.” Again, you’re just answering all their concerns up front.

And then one great tip I have during the show. If it’s not going very well, try to lead people to a story that they’re interested in telling. A lot of the times, people aren’t excited about answering facts or talking about case studies or things like that. People love to talk about stories about themselves. And so a great tip I have for you if you’re trying to get a story from somebody, and I learned this from the person who created the podcast called Startup, he said, “If you’re trying to get a story from somebody, just simply ask them hey, tell me about a time when _____”.

Don’t say blank but talk about the topic. “Hey Darren, tell me about a time when you were trying to write a blog post and it just wasn’t going well.” That just opens up Pandora’s Box because then, you’re giving that person permission, essentially to talk about themselves. People love to talk about themselves and moments in their life that happened and things that they can remember.

If it’s even still a struggle from there, you might have to kind of guide them a little bit. “Maybe not a blog post that you struggle with. Let’s go the opposite way, Darren instead. What about when you just felt like you’re in the flow? What allowed you to get into that state of mind where it was just so easy for you to write a blog post?” If it didn’t work out on that first one, I might flip the switch and try to find one that was the opposite.

Again, interview techniques come over time. I teach the stuff but it’s a great way to start to hone in on those strategies that you can get to really make your episode stand out.

Darren: Great tips. Interestingly, I’ve got to tell me about times my potential questions which leads me to I guess potential questions. When you’re going to an interview, you’ve already said don’t go through your list of questions, but do you go in with some general questions and some follow up questions?

The other part of that is do you do pre-interviews? Because I’ve noticed I’m getting asked to do more and more pre-interviews before shows where you either jump on with a post and he’s going to interview you and talk about what they’re going to interview you about or a producer of this. I’ve noticed more and more podcasters are using other people to prepare for the podcast. Have you done pre-interviews? Would you recommend them? Do you go in with those sort of questions based on those interviews or your own research?

Pat: Research and prepping for an interview, great topic. I don’t do pre-interviews myself. I feel like the pre-interview happens as we are coming up with the ideas or as I’m researching that person. In terms of research, it’s typically not a lot of research. Take somebody who has written a book for example. I want to know just what the book is about and a little bit about that person because when I ask questions, I want to be in the shoes of my audience.

I’ve listened to podcast episodes before where a person, I can tell has just done so much research about their guest so much so that I feel left out. They didn’t set it up properly. I’m feeling left out. And so, I don’t want my audience to feel that way. I want my audience to tell me later while you ask the exact same questions that I had in my head. That’s my favorite compliment to get as an interviewer, which is, “Oh man, I had that question in my head and then you asked it”. That’s such a good compliment.

By not doing a ton of research, you still have to do some. You don’t just want to be like, “Hey, I heard you were great. Why are you great?” You don’t want to approach the show like that. Use a little bit of common sense. I have been on other people’s shows where they have done pre-interviews and typically, these shows that do those are really, really high up their shows that are very difficult to get into that have a lot of people in their audience and they just want to make sure that their standards are going to be really high.

You don’t necessarily need to do them yourself, especially when you’re just starting out, but it is something you could incorporate. One thing I think you could potentially do to help prepare your person that you’re interviewing before you get them on to is just to, even some of my students have done this even on their own, is to send an informational email beforehand, that gives them some tips related to the microphone that they might be using and to make sure that the door is closed and that your phone is off. All those kinds of things.

That’s not necessarily pre-interview but it’s just prepping the person to have a better time with you also. That’s research for me. List of questions, I do have a few often when I’m interviewing somebody because I just know I want to get a story from them or I am just really curious about something. The cool thing about podcasting is it’s your show. You can run it any way you want. You are more than welcome to ask any questions that you like but obviously, you are speaking to somebody if you’re doing an interview so you know, you’re also talking to them at the same time so common sense, courtesy, and respect also play a role.

But you’re allowed to, if you’re feeling it, to push that person a little bit and to start to ask a little bit. Again, that’s where the gold comes out. There’s that line of comfortability just like put your toe in on that other side a little bit just to see and test okay, well how much can I get out of this person. When I select a guest to come on the show or when a person asks to be on my show, I will determine whether or not that person is right because A) they aren’t somebody who’s going to share something that anybody else has shared before on the show. B) I know that they have something of value to offer. If those two things are true, then I can often get those stories out and to help people through that transformation by asking the right questions.

Darren: That’s great information. I think that it’s amazing how many people would just accept any interviewee and don’t do that refining all of is this the right person for my show. Sometimes, I get pitched quite a bit by the celebrity’s issues and I push back on those because I know they’ve been everywhere and they’ve got an agenda that they’re going to push in the podcast and so I’m much more interested in getting an everyday person, someone that can relate to the audience to get on.

Pat: Can I offer another tip Darren? I typically just share this one with my students but I mean, I’m just so thankful to be talking about podcasting and Power-Up Podcasting, my course, today. I just want to give this to you because this is great and it’s great for bloggers, it’s great for video people, it’s great for podcasting so I don’t want to hold it back. That is a great person to interview is the owner of a forum.

In your niche, go to Facebook. Type in a keyword, maybe it’s knitting or something and look at the groups. When you type in that keyword, there’s another selection after that to just find all the groups. You’re going to find groups that have thousands of members. Click on that group. You don’t even have to join. It’ll tell you exactly who admin of that group is.

You can reach out to that admin and even message them directly through Facebook and say, “Hey Marissa, I see you have this knitting group here. Awesome community you’ve built. I’d love to feature you on my podcast about knitting and talk about how you came up with this idea and your specialty in knitting. What do you say?” More than likely, these people, the forum admins and owners are going to say “Yes”. They’re going to be flattered that somebody had reached out to them because more often than not, they’re not getting any exposure for what it is that they do.

Now, what are the chances, Darren, do you think that that person, when you feature them, when you make them the hero of that podcast, that they’re going to share that with their 5,000 plus members in their community? It is very, very likely. I’ve had students who have gone from zero audience to thousands of downloads per episode now just using this one strategy alone.

And so if you’re a blogger, you can do the same thing. “Hey, I’d love to feature your knitting community on my blog and talk about maybe if you have two or three tips and techniques to offer. My audience, I’d love to send them your way”.

But of course, what’s going to happen, they’re going to send their people your way as well. It’s just been one of the best tips. I share a lot of cool things like that that can help you get exposure but I just wanted to give that one away.

Darren: That’s gold. It struck me that someone who is admin of a forum or a group is possibly a different kind of person to someone who’s a big blogger. They may not be quite as self-promotional. They’re much more interested in the community. It’s a different kind of person to get on as well. Yeah, gold. Love it.

Pat: Writing it down.

Darren: Listeners, just move across to editing a little bit because I think editing is something that a lot of bloggers who are considering podcasting get caught up on, is how do you edit? What tools should you use to edit? But also, how much should you edit? This is one thing I’m interested to hear with you. In your interviews of people, are you editing the interview or do you just let it play? Are you chopping out parts? Are you rearranging it in any way or you’re just someone who just lets it run from start to finish?

Pat: Every time they say something great about me, that’s all I include. That’s it. No. I’m just kidding. I keep the interviews straight away the whole time unless there’s something in the middle that happens like a disconnect and we have to reconnect later or I’ve actually had a coughing fit one time where it lasted for like 30 seconds. I’m not going to leave that in the show. Sometimes, I’ll sneeze and I’ll just leave it in and I’ll be like, “That’s real life”. People comment on that. They’re like, “I love how you left that sneeze in there. It’s kind of an interesting reset button”.

Most of the time, I just leave it all the way and I don’t chop it up. I don’t want to only show the best parts. I try to do my best as an interviewer to keep it interesting the whole time and on path. Sometimes, when you interview somebody, your line of sight is down this one line and then all of a sudden, something happens and then you’re like way and left feel here. You’re in another country talking about some random other topic, which is fine. It’s okay to do that every once in a while.

As long as you know what that transformation is you want or what the stories you want them to tell you, you can always add a stopping point. “Alright, we’re off of the tangent here. Let’s go back to what we were initially talking about earlier and blah, blah, blah.” You can take it there. Yeah, I don’t chop up these interviews. I leave them all the way in. That of course makes it so much easier when it comes to editing.

I do chop up however when I’m recording on my own. This is funny. I had a guy, actually, he attended ProBlogger event, Jason Skinner, amazing guy. He came up with a podcast and he was just so excited about it. He’s doing great. I remember when he was first recording his show, he was saying something like, “Man, I did like ten takes of my first episode. I just can’t get it right. What’s going on?” And then the final sentence was something like, “I just can’t record for 15 minutes straight without making an error”. I was like, “What? You’re trying to record a 15…” Nobody can record a 15 minutes straight without making an error. That’s insane. He’s like, “What do you mean?” I said, “Record as much as you can and when you fumble, just click stop and then edit that part out where you fumbled and just pick up where you left of and keep going. When people listen to the final version at the other end, they would have no idea that you fumbled and messed up”.

I even show this in my course. If you look at my timeline in GarageBand for one episode that I do, you’ll see it’s chopped up into a couple dozen pieces because it took a couple dozen tries for different parts to get it in there but never have I done ever one episode straight through when it’s a solo episode of my own. Sometimes, I’ll tell a story and then I forget where I’m going and then I just okay, wait, I got to redo that. Let me go back to where I was or back to that middle part before I get to that closing part and then let’s click record and go again. It always happens. That’s how you edit your show when you’re doing it on your own.

Darren: That’s great. There are no rules for this stuff either. I think it’s good to communicate that to a new podcast, is you can stop halfway. You can edit. You can do it in one take if you’re good at that. It’s totally fine. One of the thing I’ve learned to do is to listen back to my podcast before I pass them off to my editor. They look up where the energy is and where the flow is. If there is a dead patch in an interview, it’s okay if you want to, to chop that part out. The same for you. As you listen to yourself, you’re going to go, “I really slumped there. I’m going to chop that out. I’m going to re-record that. There’s no harm in it doing it again.” So great advice.

Pat: You learned a lot about yourself when you podcast. By listening to your show specifically as well. My first episode is still online on iTunes and I can’t listen to it because it’s just terrible and so I feel like I speak so slowly and there’s a lot of uhms and I’m counting everyone of them. You can sort of as you go through all the episode, over time, you start to see the progression. You start to notice how I tell stories differently. You start to feel the confidence.

A good tip I have for all of you is to stand up while you’re podcasting. I remember somebody told me, “Oh Pat, you got to stand up while you podcast”. I’m like, “Why would I do that? That would be like standing for an hour. My feet would hurt”. They’re like, “No. Try to get a mat on your feet if you don’t want them to hurt”. I said, “Okay, I’ll try it”.

I didn’t tell my audience that I did this. I didn’t tell my podcast listening audience that I stood up during this episode. However, I must have gotten a couple dozen messages from listeners saying, “Pat, I don’t know what it was about this episode but you seem to have a little bit more energy”. I knew it was because I stood up because when you stand up, you are in sort of ready mode. You have more of your lungs to fill up because you’re not being squished by your posture. That’s another great tip when you’re recording a podcast, is to try it standing up. You’ll see that there is a significant difference.

Darren: It makes such a massive difference. I accidentally listened to episode one of this podcast the other day. I was trying a new podcast then it came on and I was like, “It’s so slow.” I’m really sorry for you new listeners who went back to number one. Good content but gosh, it was so slow. You got to listen to it at double speed.

The other thing I’ve been doing recently is sit ups before I do a podcast. I’ll just pump out 10 sit ups or a couple of push ups. It’s the energy. You’ve got to get things moving in your body.

Pat: I wasn’t going to say this but I do 20 push ups before I record a show. It’s the same thing. I think even Michael Hyatt, who’s a good friend of mine and yours as well I believe, he showed on video once how he has like this mini trampoline that he jumps on before he goes live. It’s so strange but I follow everything Michael does and I believe him with everything he says because he’s just such an amazing leader.

Of course, I just started exercising before I record and you just have so much energy. You can really listen to it and can tell.

Darren: The other thing, force yourself to smile while you’re doing a podcast. It comes through in your voice when you’re happy. When you’re positive, when you’re optimistic, it really flows through and I often get to the end of an interview and I realize I’ve been smiling the whole time even when I’m listening to the other person.

Pat: Till your cheeks hurt?

Darren: Yeah, I get that all the time. Smile. Force yourself to smile and write it down on your screen. Smile.

Pat: I love that.

Darren: They can’t see you but they can hear you smiling.

Pat: A great tip. Those of you listening right now, you can probably see us smiling on the other end after the comment.

Darren: We’re not wearing pants or anything but we’re smiling.

Pat: That’s the other thing about podcasting. You could do it naked and nobody’s going to see you.

Darren: Okay. We’re getting into dirty areas.

Pat: These are all the high-end tips that you don’t hear anywhere else.

Darren: Alright. A couple more questions. I really want to focus on building the audience now because Linda in our Facebook group said do you have any suggestions on getting that audience bigger but also, do you have any kind of workflow or schedule for each episode in terms of sharing it and getting it out there?

Pat: Yeah, absolutely. I remember Darren, you showed this slide at the event recently where I think it was a woman who had a blog and she had shown you her workflow for everything that happened after she creates a blog post and it was like a list of 75 things or something like that. I don’t have a list of 75 things to share with you but what I would offer is pick the top five and really master those.

Those top five things after an episode comes out could be for example, emailing your list. That’s a completely underutilized thing, especially when it comes to podcasting but also blogging. You have this email list. They want to hear from you. They’ve chosen to hear from you. Share that information when it comes out.

But you know, pursuing social media and maybe taking that social media step a little bit further by creating a little quote card and there’s other tools out there now that’ll let you create a movie file that embeds your audio in it really quickly. And it also shows those waveforms as you’re speaking. It becomes a great tool. You can use on Instagram and on Facebook and on Twitter to have people listen to like a little clip of your show.

You can just offer from your previous episode maybe a really interesting insight or something that’s about to lead into maybe a top tip that you then kind of tease so that you get people to listen to it. It’s not just like, okay, social media or just take it another level and make it great to make it worthwhile so that instead of just doing a tiny good job on everything, do a great job on less things.

The other thing you should do would be to encourage within your shows people to share it. I would absolutely make sure to include a call to action within every single episode but don’t include the same call to action in every single episode. People who listen to podcasts are similar to Netflix viewers and that they binge listen. And so, when people are binge listening to your show, if they start to hear the same exact call to action every single time, they’re going to tune it out just like we’ve tuned out AdSense ads nowadays.

You want to mix it up. Change it around. Make it different. Don’t copy paste from previous episodes. Make it organic and switch it up. It could be subscribe to the show. It could be rate the show. It could be download this freebie. Those kinds of things. Amy Porterfield has done a great job of getting people to download stuff from her podcast.

That’s one of the bigger challenges and something that I think one of my strengths is, is yes, you can get a lot of listens and a lot of exposure on a podcast but getting people to take action is a little bit harder specifically when that action happens on a website because as you might know, people are listening on the go mostly. How do you get them to go and do stuff with you get on your email list. There’s a lot of strategies for that. Amy Porterfield does an amazing  job so if you want to any of her episodes, she does a fantastic job of helping you download something.

Typically, what she’ll do is she’ll create an amazing episode that’ll show you how to do something for example how to use the brand new Facebook power ads editor or something. She talks about Facebook ads quite a bit. She’ll say, “By the way, I know this is a lot of information. What I did was I put together a two paged PDF file that just is a checklist of all the things you need to do the next time you set up your ad. All you have to do is go to this website”. It’s usually her website/ and then just the number of her episode. She uses a WordPress plugin called PrettyLinks to do that.

“Go to that website to download that freebie. It’s completely free.” And of course, what happens? She gets their email. And then she might down the road, sell a course on Facebook power editor or something. This is the kind of rhythm that she has. Offering a ton of value, getting new exposure on a podcast, getting people on her email list by offering something a little bit more that would help people, actually something helpful, not just like transcript or something, and then finally, leading them into more value and then eventually a course offer of some kind.

Darren: That’s great. When she interviewed me, she actually asked me if she could use a couple of my blog post in a PDF form, which again linked back to my site as well. There’s benefit for her to do that so she created an opt-in out of my content. I think it’s just gold. Any way that you can get people across your site so that you can contact them later when they are in a state where they can click through I think is so important.

One of the things I’ve noticed a lot of top hand bloggers doing and you know, you mentioned NPR and some of those high-end shows that they use seasons really well. Many of the new bloggers I start out getting to this habit of feeling like they have to create a new post every week of the year. I’ve got a weekly show, 52 episodes a year. What are your thoughts on seasons and creating seasonal content? Do you think there’s some pros and cons of both approaches?

Pat: Let me tell you, something in my life right now that’s missing is Game of Thrones because Game of Thrones, the final season is not coming out until 2019 or something like that. It makes me want it so much more. It makes me know that as soon as that season comes out, I’m going to be boom! Watching every episode as soon as it comes out.

In a pro way, in a positive way, I think seasons allow during those breaks for people to just really, really crave and want more. Yes, people might be upset because you typically come out on a Tuesday and then for how many months or weeks, you don’t come out with one, well, I think there’s a positive aspect to that.  That is this Game of Thrones effect like I was talking about. But that can only happen if your content is that good. Of course, hopefully you’ll put in the right value to make it as such.

I think seasons are great as well because it allows us to give ourselves some breathing room so you don’t have to feel like you’re tied down or that if you stop your podcast, you’re a failure. No. Actually, here’s the interesting thing. Somebody in one of my mastermind groups, his name is Todd Tresidder from financialmentor.com. He teaches really high-level financial advice to his audience. He did a podcast a couple of years back and he only did I think, I don’t remember the exact number, but it was only 30 somewhat episodes I think.

He just stopped and he hasn’t produced a new podcast episode for two years, which in the grand scheme of things is like, “Oh well, that’s kind of sad. You didn’t keep it up. It’s kind of a failure”. But podcasting lives on. It is evergreen content. He is continually getting because iTunes is a search engine, because people find his podcast on his website, because people have linked to his show, because people have talked about it. It’s continually getting new clients. He’s continually getting new students because of the podcast that he created two years ago.

Although you might think that, “Oh well, seasons is not good because less opportunity to get in front of my audience and give them those new call to actions”. Although that might be true, podcasting content is evergreen, absolutely. Even more evergreen I think than a lot of videos especially videos that are up on Facebook, which aren’t really seen anymore after the next day so that’s great.

And then I like the idea of season because then, it can give you okay, I don’t have to do 52 in a row. I can do ten. You can even batch record this ten up front and then come out with a season. Some people go Netflix style and release all of them at the same time. Chris Ducker and I do that with our One Day Business Breakthrough Podcast. We have adapted the season thing because that’s all the time we have available to record. He’s in the Philippines. I’m in the US.

We record every few months and that’s the only time we have together to do that and so we come up with eight episodes. We record them in about three days and that becomes a season that’ll last for a few months for people and then we come out with the next season a few months later. Yes, seasons are great. I think When iOS 11 comes out very soon. They’re going to make it so much easier for podcasters to actually make seasons happen and actually note podcast is being a part of a different season or season one, season two, etc. I’m all for it. I love the idea.

Going consistent every week is a great thing too because people, when they listen to your show, they are putting you into their lives, into routine. My podcast comes out on Wednesday and one time, I was late. I came out with my episode on Thursday but before I came out with  my episode on Thursday, I started getting a barrage of emails from my audience saying, “Where is the episode? What happened? Are you okay?” People were swearing at me and being really mean but I also realized that wow, this means that people want the episode.

One person was like, “My commute today felt so lonely because I didn’t have your podcast with me today. Please make sure you come out with it on time next time”. It’s cool. That might sound like a negative but I think that’s a positive. It’s like wow, people have you in their lives. They want more of you. And so, it’s so cool.

Darren: It is a nice thing to hear those sorts of things. I often will get “Monday mornings is my time with Darren” or “I go with run with Darren on Mondays”.

Pat: I love when they say that. I should be the strongest person in the world because I’ve been in several gyms. I have been to almost every country in the world although I’ve only been to Lisbon in real life. Just the way they phrase that, right? It’s like you’re with me. You don’t say that about blogs. You don’t even really say that with video often.

“Man, Darren, you are with me on my commute today.” You can tell there’s something different about podcasting.

Darren: Yeah. I love the ones where people say my kids know you. My kids love your accent or that type of thing as well.

Pat: Yeah. That’s good. I keep my show swear free. We talked about editing earlier, I interviewed one person, I won’t mention his name but I spent three hours editing it because I had to remove every swear word. The next time he came to the show, he didn’t do any at all so maybe that gives you a clue who’s a two-time guest on SPI. But I mean kids listen because they’re in the car with mommy and daddy. That’s partly why I’m kind of a little sad about Gary Vaynerchuk because I love Gary’s stuff. I love how motivating he is but I can’t share him with my seven-year-old because then my seven-year-old will get sent to detention afterwards.

Yeah, anyway it’s your show though. Depending on who you want your audience to be, you can make it any show you want. I know a lot of people who do swear because that’s who they are on their podcast and that’s totally okay too.

Darren: Totally. A big shout out to all the kids listening today.

Pat: Yeah, love you guys.

Darren: Stats and metrics, I kind of want to wind this up but I’m really interested to hear how you work out whether a show was successful or not. Are you looking at download numbers, iTunes rankings, show note visitors, conversions in terms of how many people sign up for your email or does it change from episode to episode?

Pat: It is not about the numbers for me. In terms of success of a podcast it is, are you actually helping people on the other end? That to me is what defines success. Are you actually serving others? Whether it’s 100 people or 100,000 people per episode, I still think it’s important to realize that you are there helping people. And when you can help 100, those 100 people can share your show with another 100 people.

Let’s talk about that number really quick because a lot of people will say, “Oh, I only have 100 downloads per episode”. But then I say, “Okay well, let me invite you to a conference and let me put you in a room in front of 100 people. Now, how do you feel?” Of course, they’re like, “A little nervous now. I’m getting goosebumps thinking of that”. We’ll that’s how it is on your show.

That’s the kind of relationship that you could build and if you treat your 100 subscribers like they’re just a number, well of course they’re not sharing your show, of course not. No, you need to treat them like gold and give them the time and attention that you would a person who comes and flies over to you and gets a hotel and sees you speak at an event. And then you can grow it from there.

It’s insane when I think about this analogy in terms of the numbers that I have now. I’m walking into a stadium every single week in front of 100,000 people and I’m right there in the middle and everybody’s there ready and listening to me. It just partly scares the crap out of me because that would really scare the crap out of me in real life.

But it also inspires me. It’s like all these people, I could change their lives. I could help them and when I get the responses back, when I see people enjoying the show, that to me is what success is. The numbers, obviously, they’re important to look at to make sure that you’re continually growing, that you’re actually getting downloads just to make sure there’s no errors of course.

But email list, being added to is important too. I think it’s important to ask yourself what is the most important metric for you. I think it varies for every person. For me, I have a really interesting one and that is how many thank you responses could I get in my email inbox everyday. That is a sign to me that okay, I’m doing things right. It depends on the person.

Darren: Yeah. That 100 people who could be listening, you’re spending an hour with them. That’s 100 hours of conversation that you have emitted. That’s the other reminder I think to make. You’re having hundreds of thousands of hours of conversation with people and that’s amazing but 100 hours is pretty amazing too. I couldn’t schedule that much time with people during the week. A hundred  hours is great.

Tell me about an episode—you see what I did there?—which you would consider to be your most successful episode. Why was it successful in your eyes?

Pat: I’ll tell you a funny story. A lot of people know that I’m an adviser for a company called LeadPages. LeadPages is co founded by a man named Clay Collins. I invited Clay on the show to just talk about LeadPages and to share some insight with people to inspire them so I invited him on the show. We recorded and it was okay. Clay always has great things to say and amazing stories to share.

But afterwards, I think it was the next day, I messaged Clay and I told him, I knew he would appreciate this especially as an adviser to LeadPages because we obviously talked about that in the show, I replied back and I said, “Clay, a part of me feels like we could do better”. And he was like, “What do you mean? I thought we had a great interview. You said it was great”. I said, “Yeah, I know but I feel like we could take it another level up. I want people to be blown away by your story. Can we sit down for a half hour at some point?” He’s like a CEO of a multimillion-dollar company and he immediately said “Yes”. He’s like, “Yes. Let’s do it. Let’s take the approach of let’s make this the most downloaded episode ever”.

He and I spent a lot of time and then he spent time even offline, outlining a specific structure. This is episode 263. Typically, episodes of mine nowadays get downloaded over 100,000 times after six weeks. After the six-week period, 100,000 people are on average getting through this episode. After two weeks, this new episode that we recorded, you can see the structure, essentially, what we ended up talking about was how to go from four figures to five figures to six figures to seven figures essentially. Talking about this in terms of like stepping up in a ladder. Every rung of a ladder requires different mindset, a different set of comfort zone, getting out of that, etc. After two weeks, this episode had 350,000 downloads.

I didn’t do anything different to promote it. That’s the other thing. I didn’t do anything different than what I normally do. Because we paid attention to what the content was about, it had gone viral. It was just really cool because I was a little scared to ask Clay if we could do this again because I felt like we talked for an hour and a half and that was an hour and a half that we never ended up using. But we had to get through that and so, the point of the story is that it’s your show and you can make it as great as you want it to be and I was very thankful that Clay was very understanding with that.

Another very popular episode I have, which I’m already seeing, is it came out today actually, Darren, this is an interview with a woman named Cassidy. I know this is going to be a big one. She makes six figures a year helping people plant succulents. Succulents are a kind of plant. To share her story in this really obscure niche, nobody has ever heard of Cassidy. Most people who are listening to my podcast, they’ve never heard of this woman. But already, I’m getting emails and messages about just how inspiring this is because like I said earlier, I’m making somebody who follows SPI the hero of the story. I’m making it seem like what she has achieved is achievable.

Because of that, because of the obscure niche, because of the way she tells her story, and because it’s relatable, it’s getting an amazing, amazing response. Two different perspectives in terms of let’s make a great episode for me.

Darren: They’re great stories. It’s often those ones that just come out of left field that you don’t expect to go big, that just resonate with people on a deeper level and get shared around.

Pat, I could talk to you for hours and we’ve gone over what I thought we were going to talk about.

Pat: Sorry.

Darren: No. It’s gold. I really appreciate that you are responsible for starting this podcast. I went through your free podcast tutorials when I started. It took me about a month to get going and they were gold for me. But what was missing from those tutorials was the interaction with you and with other podcasters and so, when you released Power-Up Podcasting, your course, I think it was in July this year, I was so excited for your students because the thing that was missing for me that would’ve sped up the process and would’ve improved my podcast so much was the interaction with people who have been there and done it before and other people who were going through that experience right now. I was really excited when you launched Power-Up Podcasting.

I was so excited to hear that quite a few of our readers and our listeners went through the course. You mentioned Jason Skinner before. He’s one of our listeners of this and he is one of our attendees of our event. When I caught up with him at our event this year, he was absolutely raving about you and your course. I think you’ve actually got a case study from him on your sales page. You can go and listen to that. He’s got a podcast called Business Made Easy. Launched his podcast as a basis for that and so I was really excited to see you doing that.

You open that for a limited time for people and very generously and kindly opening it up for ProBlogger readers, I think fairly exclusively at the moment so we’re very excited about that. I just wonder if you can talk us through what it the course, who is it ideal for, and anything else you think our readers need to hear to make a call on whether it’s right for them.

Pat: Sure. If you’re still listening to this episode, it’s more than likely that you have this urge and knowledge that you should start a podcast. I wanted to start a podcast back in 2008 because of a podcast that I had listened to that have really changed my life. I knew that if I was able to grab onto this medium, I can potentially change other people’s lives too.

But like I said way earlier in the interview, I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t have the help. I didn’t have any structure. I just had to figure it out on my own. And because of that, I didn’t get it done until a year and a half later. And so, I feel like with the success of how with the podcast that I’ve created, I have five podcasts of my own, actually, and with just my teaching style, it’s sort of become my mission now to help people start their own podcast if they want to. That’s why I’m here.

It’s not just to help you set it up like you’re talking about, Darren, and it’s also not just to help you get found. That’s the other sort of super power that I have to offer people kind of like what we hinted on earlier. But it’s really like you said, that access. I think that’s one thing that’s unique about me and the courses that I produced, is you get a lot of access to me and also a community of other students.

I’ve already prepped the students who are in there now. There are several hundred of them who have gone through the course already, graduates, if you will. That a brand new set of students are going to come in and we always do sort of a nice welcome for all the new students to make them feel like they’re at home. They’re in the right place and they’re in the right community.

Also, to see some of the wins that some of the existing students have had so they can look up and see something they could strive for. In addition to that, this is what’s really unique. I actually was asked by a number of people who are colleagues of mine, why I do this and why I don’t do it at a higher price point. You could see the price point on the sales page but most of my colleagues were like, “Okay, what you offer on top of that should be at a higher price point”. But no because like when I took courses, when I first started, it was just a little bit of access to the course creator that really made the big difference between the course, is that it really did help me in the course and that did not.

Sometimes, you just need one or two questions answered and very quickly, to push you forward. That’s why when you join, you’re going to see that there’s these things called office hours. I will get on a live call in front of the entire group. Whoever wants to join, you have lifetime access to the course. You have lifetime access to the community and you also have lifetime access to all these office hours even for future enrolment periods. I will be there and I will answer every single question that comes across within an hour.

Multiple office hours happen every single month. For this next launch, there’s actually nine that are scheduled within three or four weeks after the launch period closes. This is only open for seven days. I like to work with the students that are coming in, in a group. It’s easier for me to answer questions. It’s easier for me to hold their hand through the process and that’s the number one thing people have said, “Pat, you give so much of yourself. I guarantee you, you will not find another course online about podcasting, let alone anything where you get this much access to people who are there to support you including the course instructor”.

I’m just really excited to welcome a new batch of students in there, especially from the ProBlogger community who I care so deeply for. Go in there and you’ll see other members who are a part of the ProBlogger community as well and then you get to meet a number of other people too. But really, this course takes you through the whole thing, from start to finish.

First of all, pre-launch, all the things you need to do before you launch your show. That’s stuff about what your show is going to be about. I help you understand what that’s going to be, what the title should be, getting your description down, making it optimized for iTunes SEO, all those kinds of things. Getting your artwork done, ordering your equipment, getting it sent to you, etc.

The next phase is then planning not your podcast in general but your podcast episodes. One of my big strengths is content creation and planning and so I put that into step two here in the pre launch phase. I show you who should you be interviewing and why, what should your content be about, how should it be structured, what should be your first episode should be about, etc. what call to actions should you create, all those kinds of things.

And then we get into a little bit more of the technical stuff, a lot of the scary stuff that was very scary to me when I first started. If any of you have seen ever any of my tutorial videos, you know that I give you the quickest and easiest way to learn these things. And so, I do the same thing with various versions of different kinds of software you can use, how to organize your files, recording tips to make it easier for you to do editing down the road and how to interview.

Then we get into a few more technical things and then I give you your launch execution plan. This is the big one that helps you get found not just to help you get your podcast up but help you get found on launch day. So what we were talking about earlier creating an event, I give you a walkthrough of all the things you need to do during launch week, during launch day, all those kinds of things.

And then later on, you’ll get into the post launch stuff where you can learn about how to read the stats, how to automate your show, how to repurpose stuff, how to get onto like the new and noteworthy in rankings and all those kinds of things.

Finally, there’s a lot of bonus material there too. For example, how to grow your community with a podcast, grow your email list, how to monetize. There’s a whole bonus section with five videos on monetization strategies and then also interviewing in person if you’re going to do that and then always access to the recordings of the office hours too.

It’s a complete package and I’m just really excited, like I said, to take care of anybody who is interested and wants the right way to do it in the most efficient and most quality way possible.

Darren: That’s great. It’s a very generous course in terms of what you cover and your own personal access. I think it’s really exciting for people who want that a little bit extra that I can’t get through the free tutorials that are around.

Head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46. We will send an email out to you if you’re on our list as well, just with that link and with those details. Check out the case studies on that page. I love the case study. They’re from Jason but also Sophie Walker who’s another Aussie. She’s got a podcast called Australian Birth Stories. Actually, earlier today, I was on iTunes and she is number one in her category. She’s in UN-noteworthy Australia and she’s I think number 40 in the whole of Australia for all topics and categories.

Pat: She’s crushing it.

Darren: She is doing amazing things and she’s got a podcast about stories of child birth. So, you’ve got Jason there who’s got a business podcast. You’ve got Sophie there who’s got a podcast on giving birth. It’s not just for one type of podcaster. There’s a great variety there from what I can see just in the case studies, let alone who’s in the course.

Pat: If you want to be the expert in your niche, it’s definitely a way to do it. It’ll also help you become an expert by interviewing other experts too through association. It’s just amazing platform and I wholeheartedly believe that I have the best course out there to help walk you through that process. It is the best thing I’ve ever created.

Darren: It sounds like a great investment. Again, it’s http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46. You’ve got a 100% money back guarantee, I see there as well so if you want to check it out.

Pat: Absolutely.

Darren: I do wholeheartedly recommend Pat to you. Thank you so much, Pat. I appreciate the time that you’ve generously given to our audience today. I look forward to hearing of the podcast that would be born as a result of the last hour and 20 minutes of podcast today.

Pat: Thank you, Darren, for the opportunity. Thank you for those of you who listened all the way through. I look forward to working with you.

Darren: Thanks man.

Wow, there’s a lot of good information in that one. I hope you’ve got as much value out of it as I did personally from talking to Pat today. Again, the show notes today are at http://ift.tt/2xrR3YO.

If you are interested in talking Pat’s course, I can highly recommend it to you. Head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46. It’s only open for seven days though and if you are listening after the seven day window has closed, there will be an option there for you to sign up for a waitlist and be notified next time it goes live.

As I mentioned at the top of the show, Pat is also speaking at our Dallas event this year, Success Incubator. We’ve got a small group but a powerful group of speakers coming along to that event. There’ll be time for interacting with our speakers including Pat, Rachel Miller, who spoke in recent podcast and Kim Garst, who’s speaking about Facebook live.

I’ll be talking, doing the opening keynote on evolving your blog and business, so much more. We’ve got lots of masterminding opportunities too so head over to http://ift.tt/2osi0rw to get information on that or just head to today’s show notes where there’ll be links to all of these things.

Lastly, I just want to be clear that I am an affiliate for Pat’s course. However, as you can tell from this interview, I’m also a raving fan and a good friend and I would be promoting whether it had the affiliate link or not. Just be clear, I do make a commission if you buy that but that’s how we keep this show going for free.

Thanks for listening today. I do hope you’ve got value out of it. I can’t wait to hear your podcast. If you start one because of this event, I want you to share it with us. Head over to the Facebook group and let us know about that podcast. There’ll be an opportunity to do that in our weekly wins thread.

Thanks for listening. Chat with you next week in episode 212.

How did you go with today’s episode?

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The post 211: Creating a Successful Podcast – Advice from Pat Flynn appeared first on ProBlogger.

       211: Creating a Successful Podcast – Advice from Pat Flynn

[kristinejrosario]

211: Creating a Successful Podcast – Advice from Pat Flynn

Advice from Pat Flynn on How to Create a Successful Podcast

Today I have a treat for anyone who has ever considered starting a podcast (or already has one), because I’ve just finished a Skype call with Pat Flynn about the art of podcasting.

  As I’ve mentioned in the past, Pat’s teaching on podcasting is the number one thing that helped me as I was starting the ProBlogger podcast two years ago. If it wasn’t for him, I probably wouldn’t have started at all.

And so I was very excited when he launched his Power-Up Podcasting course earlier this year, because I knew it would help many more Pre-Podcasters get into this amazing medium.

Pat spoke at our Aussie ProBlogger events earlier in the year (he’ll also be speaking at our Dallas event in October), and during that event we talked about how often I heard ProBlogger readers say things like “I really should start a podcast”.

It’s a statement I hear all the time. But it’s almost always followed up with something like “But I don’t know where to begin”’ or “But I don’t have the right gear” or “But it all seems so overwhelming”.

So I asked Pat if he’d be willing to come on the show and help those in our audience interested in podcasting take their first steps.

Today we jumped on Skype, and I put a lot of your questions and challenges to him in this interview.

Not only that, Pat has also opened up his Power-Up Podcasting course exclusively for ProBlogger listeners. His course opened for just a week in July when a couple of hundred students signed up, but then he shut the doors so he could concentrate on serving that first intake of students.

So this is pretty special. He’s opening it back up for only one week, and only for ProBlogger readers and listeners. You can see what it’s all about over at ProBlogger.com/powerup.

Whether you enroll in the course or not, I encourage you to stay tuned to today’s interview.

In it Pat and I talk about

A tip for growing your podcast audience through Facebook Groups (it’ll help you grow your blog too)

What two of his most successful podcast episodes have been

What microphones he recommends if you’re on different budgets

Working out which format of podcast is right for you

Interviewing techniques to help you get conversations flowing

Surfacing stories in those you interview

Editing podcasts

The pros and cons of seasons vs ongoing episodes,

How to make your episodes sound more alive and energetic

Much much more.

Pat is incredibly generous with his advice in this episode. So whether you take his course or not, you’ll get a lot of inspiration and ideas from staying with us.

Again, if you’re interested in checking out the Power-Up Podcasting course head to problogger.com/powerup where for the next seven days you can enroll. If you’re listening after that seven-day period there will be an option to join his waitlist until the next time he opens the doors.

Links and Resources

Pat’s Course  (Disclaimer: I am an affiliate for Pat’s course but as you’ll hear I’m a genuine fan of what he does.)

Dallas Event

Audacity

Garageband

Libsyn

Buzzsprout

Microphones

ATR2100 from Audio Technica (affiliate)

Heil PR40 (affiliate)

Full Transcript Expand to view full transcript Compress to smaller transcript view

Darren: Hi there. My name is Darren Rowse and I’m the blogger behind problogger.com, a blog, podcast, event, job board, and a series of ebooks all designed to help you as a blogger to grow a profitable blog. You can learn more about what we do at ProBlogger over at problogger.com.

Today, I have a real treat for anyone who has ever considered starting a podcast or anyone who’s already got one, because I’ve jumped on a call today with Pat Flynn to talk about the art of podcasting.

As I mentioned in past episodes, Pat’s teaching on podcasting is probably the number one thing that helped me when I started getting into podcasting. I walked through a lot of his teaching to set up this very podcast. If it wasn’t for him, I have doubts as to whether I would’ve ever started at all.

Earlier this year, when he launched his Power-Up Podcasting course, I was very excited because I knew it was something that would help so many more pre-podcasters, people who wanted to get into this medium. Pat spoke at our Australian ProBlogger event earlier this year. He’ll be speaking at our upcoming Dallas one in October 2, by the way.

At the event earlier in the year, we got to talking about how often we heard ProBlogger readers say things like, “I really should start a podcast”. That is something I hear every week from ProBlogger readers. It’s a statement that comes very regularly, but almost always is followed up with something like, “But I don’t know where to start”. Or “I don’t have the right gear”. Or “It all seems so overwhelming”. These sort of excuses, these challenges, these problems that bloggers face. Sometimes, it’s also followed out with, “But I’m scared. I don’t like the sound of my own voice”.

As a result, I thought it would be good today to get Pat in on this particular episode to talk about some of those first steps that you need to take with podcasting, some of those things that are going to make it a little bit easier for you if you’ve been saying, “I really should start a podcast”.

Earlier today we jumped onto Skype, and I was able to put a lot of the questions that you asked in our Facebook group to Pat and presented some of those challenges that I know many of you have.

Now, Pat was very generous with his time today. We planned to be online for about 45 minutes but we ended up going well over an hour. He just had so much good stuff to say and so I’m very thankful for him. Not only that, he also has opened up his Power-Up Podcasting course exclusively for ProBlogger listeners at the moment. He opened this course earlier in the year. I think it was in July, just for a week, and several hundred students went through that course at that point but he also closed the doors after that week so that he could concentrate on serving that first intake of students.

I’ve twisted Pat’s arm and he is opening the doors just for you. No one else is able to get in at the moment so it’s pretty special that you can have access to that. So if you are interested in taking a course and going a little bit further, head over to problogger.com/powerup.

Whether you enroll in that course or not, I do encourage you to stay tuned to today’s interview because in it, Pat shares a wealth of information. He talks about a tip for growing your podcast audience through Facebook groups that I never thought of myself. I think it would work also in growing your blog. He also reveals what his two most successful podcast episodes have been. He tells us about what microphones he recommends at different budget levels.

We talked about what format of podcast and how to choose the right format for you whether it be an interview or teaching course or something else, more narrative storytelling one. He shares interviewing techniques. I’ve got so much for you out of those interview techniques to get the conversation flowing.

He gives us a question that he asks regularly to help surface stories in those that you interview. We talked about editing podcast. We talked about seasons of podcast, whether you should just go with ongoing episodes. We talked about how to make your episode sound more alive and energetic and we talked about so much more along the way.

Pat has been so generous with his advice in this episode so whether you take that course, Power-Up Podcasting or not, you’ll get a lot of inspiration and ideas from staying with us for this episode today. Again, if you’re interested in checking out that course, Power-Up podcasting, head over to problogger.com/powerup where for the next seven days only, you can enroll. If you are listening to this after that seven day period, there will be a waitlist there that you can sign up for and he will let you know the next time the doors open.

Today’s show notes are also over at problogger.com/podcast/211. I’ll link there to all the resources and gear that Pat mentions in the show. Thanks for listening and I’ll talk with you at the end of this episode to wrap things up.

Darren: Pat, you’ve just returned home from Lisbon, one of my favorite cities in the world. I’m curious, when you were filling in your departure and arrival forms, what did you put in your occupation?

Pat: It’s hard. I never know how to answer that question. To answer that question for a nation, I just put entrepreneur and that’s really what I am. Man, Lisbon was amazing. That was my first time in Europe ever. I’m 34 years old and I finally made it to Europe. I was there to speak at an event. It was just beautiful. I attempted to vlog the whole thing, which is an interesting experiment and people seem to be enjoying that although it took a lot of hard work to edit all that stuff.

This is the year of international travel for me. I was at the ProBlogger event. My family and I came over and I spoke in Brisbane, in Melbourne, which was amazing. Thank you again for inviting me. It’s obviously just an amazing time with your people there. And then, later this year, I’m headed over to see Chris Ducker and what he’s got going on in London. I’m traveling, man, this year.

Darren: That’s great. One of the reasons I wanted to get you on the podcast today was the amount of people that came up to me at our event who said, “I came here because I either listen to your podcast or I listen to Pat’s podcast”. Podcasting was a massive reason that people came to our event this year and so I wanted to really drill in on podcasting because it’s something that you’ve been at now since was it 2009, 2010 you started out?

Pat: 2010 although I wanted to start one year earlier. I just got kind of scared of the whole thing. But yeah, I remember doing the workshops. The workshops were fantastic, by the way, where you did these little mastermind groups on day two of the event and a lot of the people who I was sitting at with in the tables were asking me about podcasting so your audience is hungry for it. I’m ready to give you as much as I can.

Darren: Yeah. My first question is do you see yourself more these days as a podcaster or as a blogger?

Pat: As a podcaster for sure. It was interesting because when I started podcasting, it was only every other week that I was coming out with a show. Because again, I was just kind of dipping my toes into it and it was a little bit difficult for me at first to figure things out on my own and I was still blogging three times a week.

But even six or seven months later, I went to an event and I started to meet a lot of fans and people who have read my blog and have gone to my site. They could not stop talking about the podcast. “Pat, the podcast was amazing. I love when you told that story about this.” Or “Oh, when you had that guest on your show, that was amazing”. I’m like, “What about my blog? I blog so much more”. But everyone I was speaking to was talking about the podcast.

That gave me a good clue that okay, maybe I should podcast a little bit more often and then I started to see amazing results from it. This sort of relationship building that happened because of it felt so much stronger than the relationships I was building from the blog. People were coming up to me and they would tell me these amazing things and I wouldn’t even know their name. They would talk to me like we’ve been friends forever and that’s really what the power of podcasting is. So yes, I primarily identify myself now as a podcaster, an award-winning podcaster and a teacher of podcasting and just somebody who’s just fallen in love with the medium.

Darren: You’ve just mentioned a few of the benefits, I guess, there from your experience. But from your students, you’ve now been teaching people how to podcast for a while now. What are some of the benefits that you see in those students of starting podcasts?

Pat: The different students have different results depending on what they’re looking for. The big one, I had a student from my previous enrollment period launch his podcast last week. It’s called Sober Together. He went through a period in his life where he was dealing with addiction and whatnot and he came out with this podcast, which was really hard for him to do.

And already, he’s getting emails from people who he would’ve never reached otherwise, saying, “Thank you so much for creating this. I feel like I have a place of a friend. I have a person I can look up to and who’s helping me through this tough time of my life”.

He was sending me messages of how incredibly thankful he was to have this medium that connect with people on such a serious topic. There are other people out there who have had brands already, who have now seen influxes of traffic come to their site. Many people have been finally able to contact and reach an authority level or an influencer in their space to invite them on their show when otherwise, they wouldn’t have been able to have that conversation with them.

Other people are now seeing clients. If you do any coaching or do any courses, online courses or things like that, it’s a great way a podcast is to get in front of an audience and give them a taste of what it’s like to learn from them. And then of course, if you offer coaching, it’s like, “Hey, you’ve heard me coach this other person or you heard me talk about this stuff. If you want to work with me further, you can get my coaching package”.

Everybody who has gone through my course, who has finished and completed it, is seeing results and it varies depending on what they do and what their offers are. But yeah, it inspires me so much to see people do the podcast much faster than I did when I started because like I said, I had so many hurdles to overcome. I was scared of what my voice was going to sound like. I was scared people who weren’t going to listen or if they did listen, they thought maybe I wasn’t qualified to talk about what I was talking about or they would just stop the show and listen to somebody else but to help new students through that is amazing. I’m just trying to pay it forward.

Darren: That’s great. You’ve mentioned there a few reasons that put you off podcasting when you first started. I’m actually interested in whether you think there are certain people who shouldn’t podcast. I’m trying to give, I guess, a realistic expectation here of is podcasting right for people. Is there anything that you would get people to ask before they decide to start a podcast in terms of things that might actually put them off and should put them off from podcasting? Or do you think it’s for everyone?

Pat: I feel like everyone could start a podcast but should everybody start a podcast? I don’t know. It sort of depends. Just coming from a very honest place, somebody who sells a course on this stuff, it’s like if you know that the podcast is there because it’s a bright, shiny, new object that’s going to take you away from what you know you should be doing because you’re scared of some other thing that you should be doing and it’s hard that you’re just trying something new, then I would say don’t do it because the last thing you want to do is start to fill your brain with all this extra stuff that’s going to take you away from where your focus needs to be.

However, I will say that a number of people have joined the course having lost a lot of focus and then now have refocused that energy into a content medium and a platform that they really feel energized about too. On one hand, it’s like, “Hey, don’t distract yourself”. But on the other hand, it’s like, if you have been struggling to find something that is really helping you spread your message. helping you create a connection, helping you meet other influencers, well then this is the one that maybe you can take energy away from something else and put all that energy into…

And the other thing I would say is that it is not just, “Alright, I’m going to start a podcast. I’m going to click a button and have a podcast of my own”. No. There’s a lot of work involved. There’s a lot of questions that need to be asked and there’s a lot of planning that needs to happen. This is why I created this course. I had a free tutorial for a long time, showing people how to do this but people still needed a little bit of handholding, some office hours to get questions answered.

I would say that if you’re somebody who isn’t going to really commit to the process of getting this up, then I wouldn’t do it. But I think most of your audience, they’re following you because they know that you have the information and that if they take action with that, most of them are committed to do that, then they should be okay.

Darren: Britney asked in our Facebook group about how much time it’s actually going to take. She said she’s busy with other forms of content creation. Do you have an amount of time if you want to do a weekly show that you need to be putting into it and to set it up? Realistically, is it going to take a week, two weeks, a month?

Pat: Well, setting it up, typically, all the students that have gone through my course were just getting all the information they need up front. I’ve had people do it as quickly as two weeks after purchasing Power-Up Podcasting and then I’ve had people spend six months because life has been so busy and they’ve been just consuming one lesson as they can. With lifetime access, there’s no worries there in terms of not getting enough in a short period of time.

Typically, I guess on average, it would take about a month to get set up. Potentially less if you work really hard at it and just devote all your energy to it. You can do it within two weeks. But I would actually say a month is actually perfect because what I teach in the course is not just how to set up your podcast. It’s also how to get found. That’s where a lot of other podcasting courses sort of miss out.

I think that’s my specialty, the marketing put on top of the podcast to make sure that you’re not wasting your time with getting your show up but you’re actually getting results from it like we talked about earlier. What I would recommend is having a couple of weeks to actually start building buzz for your show. Even though you might have it ready and set up, you’re still going to want to tease a little bit.

What I recommend is to create an event out of the launch of your podcast. This is for anything, if you’re creating a blog, if you’re creating a video blog, or a YouTube channel. When ProBlogger happens, Darren, you don’t just open up the doors and say, “Alright guys, come on in.” You tell people months at a time because it’s such a big thing. You don’t need to tell people months ahead of time about your podcast but a few weeks is great to get people excited about it.

You can start teasing clips here and there and you get people ready to subscribe and you might even want to do a contest or a giveaway in the beginning to get some ratings and reviews and more downloads that’s going to help you in the rankings in iTunes.

The nice thing about podcasting is once you get everything set up up front, then all you have to worry now, and you know this Darren, is just producing each individual episode. Everything almost happens automatically after you publish that episode from there. There’s no having to go into iTunes every time and upload an episode every time. It doesn’t work like that.

Your audience knows what feeds are. Podcasts work with feeds and you give iTunes, you give Stitcher, you give Google Play your feed. Every time that feed updates, those directories automatically update and then everybody who’s subscribed to your show will automatically see it in their device the next time that show comes out after they subscribe.

That’s the beauty of the podcasting thing. Your episodes get pushed out similar to how people used to follow blog content on the RSS readers that we all used to have. It’s the same way with podcasting.

But the other cool thing about podcasting specifically is that the way that people consume that content is different than any other content out there, for example, video or blogging. People are consuming podcasts on the go while walking their dog, at the gym, on the plane, on a commute. It’s an amazing way to get in front of an audience where no other content medium can.

Not only that. It’s not just the content type, it’s how long they’re listening. Most people are listening for 30 minutes to an hour. That’s way more than a person would spend on your blog. If you look at the average time people spend on your blog, it’s probably 5 to 10 minutes, on average. People watching a video, it might be anywhere between 10 to 20 minutes for those longer ones. Most videos that are consumed on YouTube are probably within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Tim Ferriss has a show that some of the episodes go over two hours. There’s a Joe Rogan podcast, each episode is an hour and a half. There’s a great podcast called Hardcore History. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that one. Some of those episodes are five and a half hours long and I think that’s too long. I tried listening to that show.

The point of this is people are listening. They’re putting the podcast into their daily lives while they’re doing other things and you talk about a way to build a relationship. They’re listening to your voice. They’re hearing and feeling your emotion. It’s just so, so powerful. Once you get up and running, I would say, and I teach you these techniques. You could probably get an episode out every week on your own in two and half to three hours each week. Almost the same amount of time that might take you to produce a blog post.

I feel now, now that I’ve been doing this for a while, the podcast is just far easier to produce than a blog post.

Darren: I’m completely with you. I know I can outline a teaching episode in 20, 30 minutes particularly if you’ve already written on the topic and you’ve already got a blog post there that you can base it off and update and then you speak to it and people will forgive the mumbles or the little stumbles or you can edit them out later and it takes as long to record it as it takes you to speak it.

Pat: Yeah. Keep those uhms in there. Keep those kinds of things that I just did in there because that makes it more real. I remember when I first started, I tried to remove every uhm, every weird pause, every breath and I listened to the episode and it just didn’t sound real because when you talk to people in real life, nobody speaks perfectly. If they do, I don’t know, it just sounds different and it’s real life. It makes your life easier too because you don’t have to edit all that stuff out and you get better over time.

That’s another sort of side benefit I found of podcasting. I wasn’t a great communicator at first. I loved blogging because I can write and delete and edit and write and delete and edit again. With podcasting, you can do that. But forcing myself to just go, A) saves me time with editing but B) I’ve now been practicing communication by talking into the microphone and now, it’s given me confidence to get up on stage. It’s given me confidence to have conversations and be able to deliver a story much better in a more impactful way. I still stumble every once in a while but like we were saying, that’s how it is in real life.

Darren: A few other questions that we got in the Facebook group for you centered around gear. I know gear is not the most important thing that we need to talk about really.

Pat: It’s so fun to talk about gear, right?

Darren: Let’s talk about gear for a few minutes. Particularly, it’s interesting, Imogen in the group said if you’re a complete beginner and money is tight, do you have any recommendations for why gear would be I guess necessary at first because when money is tight, we need the bare minimum and then maybe if you’ve then got the next level up, do you have any next steps in terms of the improving sound quality and recording?

Pat: The sound quality is really important. People can find your show and you might have the best, most helpful content in the world, but if it’s not sounding great, most people in the podcasting world expect a great sound. Luckily for us, it doesn’t cost very much to do that.

When I teach podcasting, I want to give you the bare minimum amount that you’ll need to spend in addition to whatever it is you might be already investing. People have really loved me for that because I know how it is. It’s tough. But if you’re going to invest in taking the time to do a podcast, you want to invest just a little bit more than a $20 microphone to have great sounding audio because you want people on the other end to really enjoy the audio of your show.

I’m just going to give you the microphone right now that you should be using. It’s called ATR2100 by Audio-Technica. The beauty about this microphone, actually let me click on the link now. I believe it is right now $60 on Amazon, which is amazing. Plus the idea that you don’t have to buy a mixer and all these other boxes with all the dials and stuff. You don’t need any of that stuff. All you need is a computer with a USB plug in and this microphone will work.

It sounds just as good to non-professional broadcasters as this microphone that I’m using right now, which is a higher level one. It’s about $400. It’s called a Hiel PR-40. It sounds just like this one. It’s mobile. This microphone that I have right now, that I’m using here at my office, it’s not portable. It needs a mixer because it has what’s called an XLR connection, which uses a giant cable connection that has these three prongs at the end of it. The Audio-Technica ATR2100 is a USB mic and it sounds fantastic.

That, a microphone stand, you can edit using your free GarageBand or there’s another tool called Audacity out there. That, you can use to edit your show and really, that’s all you need. That and a little foam ball that goes over your mic so that the ‘p’ sounds and the ‘b’ sounds don’t pop in people’s ears when they’re listening. That it. Less than $100. And then for hosting for your audio, $7 a month. That’s it and it’s really, really inexpensive these days to get high quality sound.

Back in the day, when podcasting started, podcasting has been around since the early 2000s and it was for the nerds and the geeks who understood feeds, audio and broadcasting. Now, we’re in an age where anybody can do it and you’re seeing it. You’re seeing shows from people with regular brands up on iTunes competing and beating the big names and now building an audience, building relationships.

As much as I would love for everybody to have the top level equipment, you don’t need that. You can save that money or spend it on going to a conference to build relationships and then invite those people on your podcast, for example, instead.

Darren: You mentioned at hosting, a big no-no is to host it alongside your blog on those servers.

Pat: Don’t host it on your own. Where you host your blog, don’t host your audio for your podcast there too because it’s going to eat up a lot of bandwidth and of course, it’s going to also affect the speed of your website. It might crash it. For whatever reason, you might get for example, an influencer one day might link to your show because they really enjoyed it or maybe you featured them on your show and they were like, “Hey, listen to my show or listen to me on Darren’s show”. And then boom, you get this influx of traffic. Everybody’s downloading at the same time and you’re wondering why your website is slow. And people are listening to your show and they’re going to your website and they’re like, “Why is this website not working? It’s too good to be true. I’m going to move on to somebody else”.

You don’t want that kind of scenario so always best to host your audio files on a server that is specifically for the audio files. There are two that I recommend. The one that I recommend, that I trust more than any other is Libsyn. They’re great. They have been in this arena for over a decade and they’re very reliable. Everything is super smooth and fast there so that’s who I would go with if you’re going to start a podcast. The other one is Buzzsprout.

Darren: Okay. It’s amazing how cheap it is, really, when you think about the bandwidth that’s getting tuned up on a fairly large scale. It’s very affordable to get into. Bret asked how important is it to have things like music, professionally recorded intros, outros, breakers, outwork? How much should you be investing into that? Can you do it all yourself or would you recommend that that’s an area to invest in?

Pat: You can do it all yourself. I did my own voiceover for a while and I produced music in GarageBand and I tested that for a little bit and then I hired somebody else to do it for me. Actually, the intro to The Smart Passive Income, I produced it myself. I just grabbed an audio file from a royalty free audio site and then I just hired a guy to do the voiceover on top of it. You can find people on Fiverr now who are great, for $5 to $10.

There are obviously people at an upper level who can do voiceover treatment for you. There’s a company called Music Radio Creative that can give you the whole package with the music and the intro, the outro, and the sounds and the sound effects and stuff. But honestly, you don’t need that. That’s going to add a little bit of flavor to your show in the beginning and a little bit of professionalism but honestly, if you are there in the beginning telling a great story, you don’t need any of that stuff.

Just tell a great story. Get people into your world and show them what it is that you have to offer them and they’re going to be hooked. From there, then you can add maybe later on, some music and other things like that.

The artwork however, as you mentioned, is really important because people before they listen to your show, they’re actually going to see it first. They’re going to see the artwork and the artwork is sort of like just the first impression so you want it to be great. You can do it on your own. A lot of my students do it on their own using something like Canva or I think PicMonkey is the other one.

I don’t remember the other one that somebody used but you can do it on your own. The file size is quite large actually because it’s for all the systems that podcasts run on including Apple TV. A 3,000 x 3,000 pixel, which is a lot, but what Apple automatically does is shrink that down and make it for iPad, for iPhone, etc.

A couple of things for artwork, you want it to stand out so look at the categories on iTunes and find what other shows are going to be there and find one that stands out. The person I mentioned earlier, Michael, he is in the self-help category and he really smartly chose a yellow color when all the other colors are not yellow at all. His show stands out very, very well.

You also want to keep the text on your artwork minimal because again, when it’s shrunken down and most people are finding them either on a website or most likely on their phones, a lot of times, when there’s too much text, it’s going to be illegible. And then finally, you want to make sure that there’s just something there that resembles what the show is about. It could be a picture of you. It could be a picture of your logo, like yours. It could be a symbol that represents what it is that you do. It can be anything. Really, you just need to get it up there, make it look great and then move on with your show from there.

It’s just kind of a one0-time decision up front and you can invest as much as you want in that but you don’t have to get too crazy.

Darren: With all those things, you can add, change, and upgrade and refresh them later on so don’t get too stuck on that. I’ll show you a way out. I think it’s probably more important.

Pat: Just like starting a blog. How many times do we waste like four weeks on, I just the perfect theme or I just need to get this logo designed. Get it out there. You can perfect those things later.

Darren: Format is another question that I got asked a few times. Interview, panels, co-host, talking head, narrative, there are all these different kinds of podcast and as soon as you dig into iTunes, you can see there’s a huge variety. How do you make that decision? Is it about your personality? Is it what you like listening to? Is it the topic or is it all of those things together? How do you make that decision?

Pat: What I would recommend is go into iTunes. Start listening to a few podcasts and start paying attention and being conscious to the format, the structure, the style, the pacing, those kinds of things. Over time, even just over a day, you’re going to start to realize, well I like this or I don’t like this. You can incorporate those into your own show too and put your own voice, your own spin, your own personality and character into it.

Interview shows are typically the ones that most people do because approaching that, you’re like, “Oh, this is easy. I just have to talk and ask questions and have the other person who I invite in the show produce the content for me”. That’s kind of half true because yes, the other person is going to answer your questions but the most important things when it comes to an interview show is asking the right questions.

I teach a lot of interview techniques and how to go deeper. The one thing I would recommend is don’t just have a list of questions that you want to ask and just only stick to those. My pet peeve, and there’s a lot of popular shows that do this, but my big pet peeve is when you go, “Okay, question number one… Okay. Thank you. Question number two…”. Don’t do that. After they answer question number one, what about like, “How did you feel when that happened?” Just like a regular interview would be, a regular conversation.

When you go to a café with a friend and you’re literally talking to them and trying to discover more things about them, first of all, you’re not presenting them a list of questions and secondly, you’re not just moving on from topic to topic after every answer. You’re going deeper. You’re having a real conversation. That’s a frame of mind that I like to offer people. When you get into an interview with somebody, you could even say this to the person you’re interviewing. It’s a great way to make them feel better about what they’re about to do with you in terms of the interview.

I always say when I bring a guest on, I say, “Let’s just pretend we’re in a coffee shop. I’m getting to know you and we’re just chatting. Don’t worry about the audience. They’re just a fly on the wall”. That typically will get people a little more comfortable to that point where they’re going to share deeper information. The gold really comes three or four levels deep after you ask an initial question. If you move on to the next question too soon, you might not get to that good stuff that’s going to make your show unique versus when other people perhaps try to interview that person too.

Speaking of getting people to say yes to interviews, that can be very difficult. A few tips there I just want to give to you. First of all, asking authors or people coming out with promotions of some kind, they’re likely going to say “Yes” during those times so you can ask them because they’re going to be wanting to get in front of as many people as possible.

I remember when I launched my book ‘Will It Fly?’ In 2016, I wanted to get on every single podcast that I could and so I was saying yes to everybody. Look for authors. If you want to look for a big name, that’s where I would start. The other thing is look for other people who have already done podcasts. They kind of know what that’s about. People who seem to be on many shows are going to be more likely to say “Yes” to new ones.

Also, from there, you can then begin to name drop. If you find an author, for example, and you promoted his book because it was coming out, you reach out to somebody else and you can say, “Oh, I’ve interviewed people like Tim Ferriss or Gary Vaynerchuk”. These people who came onto my show when they were doing certain promotions because I knew they would be more likely to say “Yes” then.

But now, people are like, “Ooh, you interviewed Tim Ferriss? You interviewed Gary Vaynerchuk? You interviewed Darren Rowse? Okay, I will say yes to your show”. The final tip I have for you, related to who to interview would be, you don’t have to interview A-listers. I think this is a big misconception, is “Oh, I have to get the top guys on the show and that’s how I’m going to be popular”.

No. Interview amazing people. There are amazing people in this world who have amazing stories to share, who nobody has even heard of yet. My most popular episodes are not the one with Tim Ferriss or Gary Vaynerchuk or other big names. It’s the one with somebody that nobody has ever heard of before like Shane and Jocelyn Sams from episode I think 122, who are just two people from Kentucky, in the United States, who happen to find Smart Passive Income and talk about how they then transition from being a teachers to online entrepreneurs. That is one of the most downloaded episodes ever because not only are people listening to it because people can feel like they can relate to them because they’re only just a couple of steps ahead versus the A-listers who are out and in stratosphere.

They also are more likely to share it because those people represent the major part of my audience. Don’t just interview A-listers. Interview non A-listers, the B- and C-listers out there. The people who are trying to be up and coming in that space. They’re going to be likely to say “Yes” because they want to be getting that exposure.

Also, if you have a brand already, interview success stories that you’ve helped to create. This something that actually helped promote in my last launch for the podcasting course. I interviewed three students. I interviewed them about what it was like to start a podcast and some of the struggles that they had and of course, just naturally through that, they’re saying, “Oh, and your course was so great because of this and that”. It’s essentially just a testimonial.

Right now, you could probably think of one or two people who you know you’ve helped if you’ve already have a band out there in your blog or videos. Invite that person on your podcast and have them tell the story. It’s so much more powerful than you telling your audience, “Hey, this is why my stuff is great”. Somebody is saying it for you and they’re telling the stories behind it. Listening to their voice, nothing is more powerful in marketing.

Going back to one of the questions related to structure. The other structure to do that’s very easy is just solo episodes where you are by yourself and you are essentially doing what’s almost like a presentation. I remember when I used to do those. I used to script every single word that I was going to say because I was so afraid of missing something or saying something incorrectly or all the random pauses. I didn’t trust myself to share those things.

Some tips I have for you is one, is to understand first what is it that transformation you want your audience to go through? They’re one way and then they listen to your show and they come out a new way. What is that transformation you want them to go through? And then just bullet point the stories you want to tell, the facts, the case studies, the examples, all the things that then support that transformation happening from the point that a person starts to listen to your show to the point that a person ends.

And then, because you have those bullet points and because you’re trusting yourself just like you would in a conversation when those topics come up, you just go. You just let yourself talk about those things. If there are important things like quotes you want to mention, write those down or specific like five items that you want to cover. Write those down too. Don’t script out the whole thing. It sounds completely robotic. You’re going to put your audience to sleep if you do that. Just be natural. Try it.

Also, I need to say this. Your first episodes are going to be terrible. That’s okay. You have to get through that. I think it was John Lee Dumas who has I think 1,700 episodes now. He said that every master started as a disaster. I love that quote. That’s with everything not just podcasting. In order to get to the good stuff, you have to get through that disaster. Just get started.

Those are the two formats that I would recommend starting with. There are other ones such as, there are some people who have a fiction, ones where they’re just literally telling a story as if it’s a book. Other ones are more what’s called MPR style, documentary, journalistic style with interviews on the street with background music. I’ve done that kind of episode before. I think it was episode 138.

I took a recorder to Columbus, Ohio, where my team is and I was like, “Okay, I’m going to interview my team. I’m going to talk about this trip”. The episode ended up being 25 minutes. It was a good episode. There’s a lot of music. It felt like you were in Columbus interviews. You got to meet my team. It took eight hours to edit that episode. That’s why I haven’t done many of those. Because when you record an interview, you record the interview and then you can record maybe the formal intro later and boom! You have it ready to go. That’s formatting.

Darren: Pat, you were just so easy to interview. I said this at our event. You just answered six of my questions without me even asking one. But here’s my next question then. What happens when that doesn’t happen? When you have an interviewee who is awkward or is having a bad day or is just not in the flow with you, haven’t had that coffee? Sometimes, it just grinds and it’s hard to get them to reveal. It’s hard to get them to share something of themselves. It’s hard to get them talking. Do you have any tips for getting the flow going with someone particularly when you’re interviewing them?

Pat: Thank you for the compliment, first of all. Secondly, I’ve gone through that process of interviewing and having it be very difficult to get great information to get great information from them. One word answers even if it’s an open-ended question. Just a couple of sentences and then that’s it and then kind of a random pause. It’s difficult sometimes and honestly, I’ve done a couple of interviews where at the end, I’m just like, “Wow. Okay. That’s actually probably wasn’t a good recording”.

I’m not saying this to this person but I’m thinking it and then I often go back to them and I say, “You know what, I don’t know what it was. It was probably me”. It’s like I’m breaking up with them. “It wasn’t you. It was me. I just didn’t feel the energy. I’m really sorry. I’d love to perhaps reschedule this with you or perhaps find a way to make you more comfortable with the show but the way the content played out during our interview, I can’t publish it. I have really high standards for the content that I deliver and again, I think it was mostly my fault.” That’s typically the way that I do it. I’ve only had to do that twice out of over 300 interviews that I’ve done.

It doesn’t happen very often because I know some other strategies. For example, like I mentioned earlier, you’re making people feel comfortable with you when they are getting on the Skype call with you if you’re using Skype to record, which is what we’re using right now actually. Making them feel comfortable about that.

When I get people onto the show, I say, “Okay, we’re not recording yet because I want people to know when I’m going to hit record so just really quickly, an example might be like, “Hey Darren, thanks for coming on the show today. I’m not recording yet. I just want to check our levels first. Make sure you’re comfortable and again, remember, we’re just going to have a casual conversation just like we’re in a coffee shop so no worries there. Can I answer any question for you before I hit record?”

Again, this is like really setting this person up for comfortability, a little bit of control. You’re able to ask a few questions if there are any. “Oh, how long is this going to go for?” “Oh, 30 minutes.” “Okay, great.” Again, you’re just answering all their concerns up front.

And then one great tip I have during the show. If it’s not going very well, try to lead people to a story that they’re interested in telling. A lot of the times, people aren’t excited about answering facts or talking about case studies or things like that. People love to talk about stories about themselves. And so a great tip I have for you if you’re trying to get a story from somebody, and I learned this from the person who created the podcast called Startup, he said, “If you’re trying to get a story from somebody, just simply ask them hey, tell me about a time when _____”.

Don’t say blank but talk about the topic. “Hey Darren, tell me about a time when you were trying to write a blog post and it just wasn’t going well.” That just opens up Pandora’s Box because then, you’re giving that person permission, essentially to talk about themselves. People love to talk about themselves and moments in their life that happened and things that they can remember.

If it’s even still a struggle from there, you might have to kind of guide them a little bit. “Maybe not a blog post that you struggle with. Let’s go the opposite way, Darren instead. What about when you just felt like you’re in the flow? What allowed you to get into that state of mind where it was just so easy for you to write a blog post?” If it didn’t work out on that first one, I might flip the switch and try to find one that was the opposite.

Again, interview techniques come over time. I teach the stuff but it’s a great way to start to hone in on those strategies that you can get to really make your episode stand out.

Darren: Great tips. Interestingly, I’ve got to tell me about times my potential questions which leads me to I guess potential questions. When you’re going to an interview, you’ve already said don’t go through your list of questions, but do you go in with some general questions and some follow up questions?

The other part of that is do you do pre-interviews? Because I’ve noticed I’m getting asked to do more and more pre-interviews before shows where you either jump on with a post and he’s going to interview you and talk about what they’re going to interview you about or a producer of this. I’ve noticed more and more podcasters are using other people to prepare for the podcast. Have you done pre-interviews? Would you recommend them? Do you go in with those sort of questions based on those interviews or your own research?

Pat: Research and prepping for an interview, great topic. I don’t do pre-interviews myself. I feel like the pre-interview happens as we are coming up with the ideas or as I’m researching that person. In terms of research, it’s typically not a lot of research. Take somebody who has written a book for example. I want to know just what the book is about and a little bit about that person because when I ask questions, I want to be in the shoes of my audience.

I’ve listened to podcast episodes before where a person, I can tell has just done so much research about their guest so much so that I feel left out. They didn’t set it up properly. I’m feeling left out. And so, I don’t want my audience to feel that way. I want my audience to tell me later while you ask the exact same questions that I had in my head. That’s my favorite compliment to get as an interviewer, which is, “Oh man, I had that question in my head and then you asked it”. That’s such a good compliment.

By not doing a ton of research, you still have to do some. You don’t just want to be like, “Hey, I heard you were great. Why are you great?” You don’t want to approach the show like that. Use a little bit of common sense. I have been on other people’s shows where they have done pre-interviews and typically, these shows that do those are really, really high up their shows that are very difficult to get into that have a lot of people in their audience and they just want to make sure that their standards are going to be really high.

You don’t necessarily need to do them yourself, especially when you’re just starting out, but it is something you could incorporate. One thing I think you could potentially do to help prepare your person that you’re interviewing before you get them on to is just to, even some of my students have done this even on their own, is to send an informational email beforehand, that gives them some tips related to the microphone that they might be using and to make sure that the door is closed and that your phone is off. All those kinds of things.

That’s not necessarily pre-interview but it’s just prepping the person to have a better time with you also. That’s research for me. List of questions, I do have a few often when I’m interviewing somebody because I just know I want to get a story from them or I am just really curious about something. The cool thing about podcasting is it’s your show. You can run it any way you want. You are more than welcome to ask any questions that you like but obviously, you are speaking to somebody if you’re doing an interview so you know, you’re also talking to them at the same time so common sense, courtesy, and respect also play a role.

But you’re allowed to, if you’re feeling it, to push that person a little bit and to start to ask a little bit. Again, that’s where the gold comes out. There’s that line of comfortability just like put your toe in on that other side a little bit just to see and test okay, well how much can I get out of this person. When I select a guest to come on the show or when a person asks to be on my show, I will determine whether or not that person is right because A) they aren’t somebody who’s going to share something that anybody else has shared before on the show. B) I know that they have something of value to offer. If those two things are true, then I can often get those stories out and to help people through that transformation by asking the right questions.

Darren: That’s great information. I think that it’s amazing how many people would just accept any interviewee and don’t do that refining all of is this the right person for my show. Sometimes, I get pitched quite a bit by the celebrity’s issues and I push back on those because I know they’ve been everywhere and they’ve got an agenda that they’re going to push in the podcast and so I’m much more interested in getting an everyday person, someone that can relate to the audience to get on.

Pat: Can I offer another tip Darren? I typically just share this one with my students but I mean, I’m just so thankful to be talking about podcasting and Power-Up Podcasting, my course, today. I just want to give this to you because this is great and it’s great for bloggers, it’s great for video people, it’s great for podcasting so I don’t want to hold it back. That is a great person to interview is the owner of a forum.

In your niche, go to Facebook. Type in a keyword, maybe it’s knitting or something and look at the groups. When you type in that keyword, there’s another selection after that to just find all the groups. You’re going to find groups that have thousands of members. Click on that group. You don’t even have to join. It’ll tell you exactly who admin of that group is.

You can reach out to that admin and even message them directly through Facebook and say, “Hey Marissa, I see you have this knitting group here. Awesome community you’ve built. I’d love to feature you on my podcast about knitting and talk about how you came up with this idea and your specialty in knitting. What do you say?” More than likely, these people, the forum admins and owners are going to say “Yes”. They’re going to be flattered that somebody had reached out to them because more often than not, they’re not getting any exposure for what it is that they do.

Now, what are the chances, Darren, do you think that that person, when you feature them, when you make them the hero of that podcast, that they’re going to share that with their 5,000 plus members in their community? It is very, very likely. I’ve had students who have gone from zero audience to thousands of downloads per episode now just using this one strategy alone.

And so if you’re a blogger, you can do the same thing. “Hey, I’d love to feature your knitting community on my blog and talk about maybe if you have two or three tips and techniques to offer. My audience, I’d love to send them your way”.

But of course, what’s going to happen, they’re going to send their people your way as well. It’s just been one of the best tips. I share a lot of cool things like that that can help you get exposure but I just wanted to give that one away.

Darren: That’s gold. It struck me that someone who is admin of a forum or a group is possibly a different kind of person to someone who’s a big blogger. They may not be quite as self-promotional. They’re much more interested in the community. It’s a different kind of person to get on as well. Yeah, gold. Love it.

Pat: Writing it down.

Darren: Listeners, just move across to editing a little bit because I think editing is something that a lot of bloggers who are considering podcasting get caught up on, is how do you edit? What tools should you use to edit? But also, how much should you edit? This is one thing I’m interested to hear with you. In your interviews of people, are you editing the interview or do you just let it play? Are you chopping out parts? Are you rearranging it in any way or you’re just someone who just lets it run from start to finish?

Pat: Every time they say something great about me, that’s all I include. That’s it. No. I’m just kidding. I keep the interviews straight away the whole time unless there’s something in the middle that happens like a disconnect and we have to reconnect later or I’ve actually had a coughing fit one time where it lasted for like 30 seconds. I’m not going to leave that in the show. Sometimes, I’ll sneeze and I’ll just leave it in and I’ll be like, “That’s real life”. People comment on that. They’re like, “I love how you left that sneeze in there. It’s kind of an interesting reset button”.

Most of the time, I just leave it all the way and I don’t chop it up. I don’t want to only show the best parts. I try to do my best as an interviewer to keep it interesting the whole time and on path. Sometimes, when you interview somebody, your line of sight is down this one line and then all of a sudden, something happens and then you’re like way and left feel here. You’re in another country talking about some random other topic, which is fine. It’s okay to do that every once in a while.

As long as you know what that transformation is you want or what the stories you want them to tell you, you can always add a stopping point. “Alright, we’re off of the tangent here. Let’s go back to what we were initially talking about earlier and blah, blah, blah.” You can take it there. Yeah, I don’t chop up these interviews. I leave them all the way in. That of course makes it so much easier when it comes to editing.

I do chop up however when I’m recording on my own. This is funny. I had a guy, actually, he attended ProBlogger event, Jason Skinner, amazing guy. He came up with a podcast and he was just so excited about it. He’s doing great. I remember when he was first recording his show, he was saying something like, “Man, I did like ten takes of my first episode. I just can’t get it right. What’s going on?” And then the final sentence was something like, “I just can’t record for 15 minutes straight without making an error”. I was like, “What? You’re trying to record a 15…” Nobody can record a 15 minutes straight without making an error. That’s insane. He’s like, “What do you mean?” I said, “Record as much as you can and when you fumble, just click stop and then edit that part out where you fumbled and just pick up where you left of and keep going. When people listen to the final version at the other end, they would have no idea that you fumbled and messed up”.

I even show this in my course. If you look at my timeline in GarageBand for one episode that I do, you’ll see it’s chopped up into a couple dozen pieces because it took a couple dozen tries for different parts to get it in there but never have I done ever one episode straight through when it’s a solo episode of my own. Sometimes, I’ll tell a story and then I forget where I’m going and then I just okay, wait, I got to redo that. Let me go back to where I was or back to that middle part before I get to that closing part and then let’s click record and go again. It always happens. That’s how you edit your show when you’re doing it on your own.

Darren: That’s great. There are no rules for this stuff either. I think it’s good to communicate that to a new podcast, is you can stop halfway. You can edit. You can do it in one take if you’re good at that. It’s totally fine. One of the thing I’ve learned to do is to listen back to my podcast before I pass them off to my editor. They look up where the energy is and where the flow is. If there is a dead patch in an interview, it’s okay if you want to, to chop that part out. The same for you. As you listen to yourself, you’re going to go, “I really slumped there. I’m going to chop that out. I’m going to re-record that. There’s no harm in it doing it again.” So great advice.

Pat: You learned a lot about yourself when you podcast. By listening to your show specifically as well. My first episode is still online on iTunes and I can’t listen to it because it’s just terrible and so I feel like I speak so slowly and there’s a lot of uhms and I’m counting everyone of them. You can sort of as you go through all the episode, over time, you start to see the progression. You start to notice how I tell stories differently. You start to feel the confidence.

A good tip I have for all of you is to stand up while you’re podcasting. I remember somebody told me, “Oh Pat, you got to stand up while you podcast”. I’m like, “Why would I do that? That would be like standing for an hour. My feet would hurt”. They’re like, “No. Try to get a mat on your feet if you don’t want them to hurt”. I said, “Okay, I’ll try it”.

I didn’t tell my audience that I did this. I didn’t tell my podcast listening audience that I stood up during this episode. However, I must have gotten a couple dozen messages from listeners saying, “Pat, I don’t know what it was about this episode but you seem to have a little bit more energy”. I knew it was because I stood up because when you stand up, you are in sort of ready mode. You have more of your lungs to fill up because you’re not being squished by your posture. That’s another great tip when you’re recording a podcast, is to try it standing up. You’ll see that there is a significant difference.

Darren: It makes such a massive difference. I accidentally listened to episode one of this podcast the other day. I was trying a new podcast then it came on and I was like, “It’s so slow.” I’m really sorry for you new listeners who went back to number one. Good content but gosh, it was so slow. You got to listen to it at double speed.

The other thing I’ve been doing recently is sit ups before I do a podcast. I’ll just pump out 10 sit ups or a couple of push ups. It’s the energy. You’ve got to get things moving in your body.

Pat: I wasn’t going to say this but I do 20 push ups before I record a show. It’s the same thing. I think even Michael Hyatt, who’s a good friend of mine and yours as well I believe, he showed on video once how he has like this mini trampoline that he jumps on before he goes live. It’s so strange but I follow everything Michael does and I believe him with everything he says because he’s just such an amazing leader.

Of course, I just started exercising before I record and you just have so much energy. You can really listen to it and can tell.

Darren: The other thing, force yourself to smile while you’re doing a podcast. It comes through in your voice when you’re happy. When you’re positive, when you’re optimistic, it really flows through and I often get to the end of an interview and I realize I’ve been smiling the whole time even when I’m listening to the other person.

Pat: Till your cheeks hurt?

Darren: Yeah, I get that all the time. Smile. Force yourself to smile and write it down on your screen. Smile.

Pat: I love that.

Darren: They can’t see you but they can hear you smiling.

Pat: A great tip. Those of you listening right now, you can probably see us smiling on the other end after the comment.

Darren: We’re not wearing pants or anything but we’re smiling.

Pat: That’s the other thing about podcasting. You could do it naked and nobody’s going to see you.

Darren: Okay. We’re getting into dirty areas.

Pat: These are all the high-end tips that you don’t hear anywhere else.

Darren: Alright. A couple more questions. I really want to focus on building the audience now because Linda in our Facebook group said do you have any suggestions on getting that audience bigger but also, do you have any kind of workflow or schedule for each episode in terms of sharing it and getting it out there?

Pat: Yeah, absolutely. I remember Darren, you showed this slide at the event recently where I think it was a woman who had a blog and she had shown you her workflow for everything that happened after she creates a blog post and it was like a list of 75 things or something like that. I don’t have a list of 75 things to share with you but what I would offer is pick the top five and really master those.

Those top five things after an episode comes out could be for example, emailing your list. That’s a completely underutilized thing, especially when it comes to podcasting but also blogging. You have this email list. They want to hear from you. They’ve chosen to hear from you. Share that information when it comes out.

But you know, pursuing social media and maybe taking that social media step a little bit further by creating a little quote card and there’s other tools out there now that’ll let you create a movie file that embeds your audio in it really quickly. And it also shows those waveforms as you’re speaking. It becomes a great tool. You can use on Instagram and on Facebook and on Twitter to have people listen to like a little clip of your show.

You can just offer from your previous episode maybe a really interesting insight or something that’s about to lead into maybe a top tip that you then kind of tease so that you get people to listen to it. It’s not just like, okay, social media or just take it another level and make it great to make it worthwhile so that instead of just doing a tiny good job on everything, do a great job on less things.

The other thing you should do would be to encourage within your shows people to share it. I would absolutely make sure to include a call to action within every single episode but don’t include the same call to action in every single episode. People who listen to podcasts are similar to Netflix viewers and that they binge listen. And so, when people are binge listening to your show, if they start to hear the same exact call to action every single time, they’re going to tune it out just like we’ve tuned out AdSense ads nowadays.

You want to mix it up. Change it around. Make it different. Don’t copy paste from previous episodes. Make it organic and switch it up. It could be subscribe to the show. It could be rate the show. It could be download this freebie. Those kinds of things. Amy Porterfield has done a great job of getting people to download stuff from her podcast.

That’s one of the bigger challenges and something that I think one of my strengths is, is yes, you can get a lot of listens and a lot of exposure on a podcast but getting people to take action is a little bit harder specifically when that action happens on a website because as you might know, people are listening on the go mostly. How do you get them to go and do stuff with you get on your email list. There’s a lot of strategies for that. Amy Porterfield does an amazing  job so if you want to any of her episodes, she does a fantastic job of helping you download something.

Typically, what she’ll do is she’ll create an amazing episode that’ll show you how to do something for example how to use the brand new Facebook power ads editor or something. She talks about Facebook ads quite a bit. She’ll say, “By the way, I know this is a lot of information. What I did was I put together a two paged PDF file that just is a checklist of all the things you need to do the next time you set up your ad. All you have to do is go to this website”. It’s usually her website/ and then just the number of her episode. She uses a WordPress plugin called PrettyLinks to do that.

“Go to that website to download that freebie. It’s completely free.” And of course, what happens? She gets their email. And then she might down the road, sell a course on Facebook power editor or something. This is the kind of rhythm that she has. Offering a ton of value, getting new exposure on a podcast, getting people on her email list by offering something a little bit more that would help people, actually something helpful, not just like transcript or something, and then finally, leading them into more value and then eventually a course offer of some kind.

Darren: That’s great. When she interviewed me, she actually asked me if she could use a couple of my blog post in a PDF form, which again linked back to my site as well. There’s benefit for her to do that so she created an opt-in out of my content. I think it’s just gold. Any way that you can get people across your site so that you can contact them later when they are in a state where they can click through I think is so important.

One of the things I’ve noticed a lot of top hand bloggers doing and you know, you mentioned NPR and some of those high-end shows that they use seasons really well. Many of the new bloggers I start out getting to this habit of feeling like they have to create a new post every week of the year. I’ve got a weekly show, 52 episodes a year. What are your thoughts on seasons and creating seasonal content? Do you think there’s some pros and cons of both approaches?

Pat: Let me tell you, something in my life right now that’s missing is Game of Thrones because Game of Thrones, the final season is not coming out until 2019 or something like that. It makes me want it so much more. It makes me know that as soon as that season comes out, I’m going to be boom! Watching every episode as soon as it comes out.

In a pro way, in a positive way, I think seasons allow during those breaks for people to just really, really crave and want more. Yes, people might be upset because you typically come out on a Tuesday and then for how many months or weeks, you don’t come out with one, well, I think there’s a positive aspect to that.  That is this Game of Thrones effect like I was talking about. But that can only happen if your content is that good. Of course, hopefully you’ll put in the right value to make it as such.

I think seasons are great as well because it allows us to give ourselves some breathing room so you don’t have to feel like you’re tied down or that if you stop your podcast, you’re a failure. No. Actually, here’s the interesting thing. Somebody in one of my mastermind groups, his name is Todd Tresidder from financialmentor.com. He teaches really high-level financial advice to his audience. He did a podcast a couple of years back and he only did I think, I don’t remember the exact number, but it was only 30 somewhat episodes I think.

He just stopped and he hasn’t produced a new podcast episode for two years, which in the grand scheme of things is like, “Oh well, that’s kind of sad. You didn’t keep it up. It’s kind of a failure”. But podcasting lives on. It is evergreen content. He is continually getting because iTunes is a search engine, because people find his podcast on his website, because people have linked to his show, because people have talked about it. It’s continually getting new clients. He’s continually getting new students because of the podcast that he created two years ago.

Although you might think that, “Oh well, seasons is not good because less opportunity to get in front of my audience and give them those new call to actions”. Although that might be true, podcasting content is evergreen, absolutely. Even more evergreen I think than a lot of videos especially videos that are up on Facebook, which aren’t really seen anymore after the next day so that’s great.

And then I like the idea of season because then, it can give you okay, I don’t have to do 52 in a row. I can do ten. You can even batch record this ten up front and then come out with a season. Some people go Netflix style and release all of them at the same time. Chris Ducker and I do that with our One Day Business Breakthrough Podcast. We have adapted the season thing because that’s all the time we have available to record. He’s in the Philippines. I’m in the US.

We record every few months and that’s the only time we have together to do that and so we come up with eight episodes. We record them in about three days and that becomes a season that’ll last for a few months for people and then we come out with the next season a few months later. Yes, seasons are great. I think When iOS 11 comes out very soon. They’re going to make it so much easier for podcasters to actually make seasons happen and actually note podcast is being a part of a different season or season one, season two, etc. I’m all for it. I love the idea.

Going consistent every week is a great thing too because people, when they listen to your show, they are putting you into their lives, into routine. My podcast comes out on Wednesday and one time, I was late. I came out with my episode on Thursday but before I came out with  my episode on Thursday, I started getting a barrage of emails from my audience saying, “Where is the episode? What happened? Are you okay?” People were swearing at me and being really mean but I also realized that wow, this means that people want the episode.

One person was like, “My commute today felt so lonely because I didn’t have your podcast with me today. Please make sure you come out with it on time next time”. It’s cool. That might sound like a negative but I think that’s a positive. It’s like wow, people have you in their lives. They want more of you. And so, it’s so cool.

Darren: It is a nice thing to hear those sorts of things. I often will get “Monday mornings is my time with Darren” or “I go with run with Darren on Mondays”.

Pat: I love when they say that. I should be the strongest person in the world because I’ve been in several gyms. I have been to almost every country in the world although I’ve only been to Lisbon in real life. Just the way they phrase that, right? It’s like you’re with me. You don’t say that about blogs. You don’t even really say that with video often.

“Man, Darren, you are with me on my commute today.” You can tell there’s something different about podcasting.

Darren: Yeah. I love the ones where people say my kids know you. My kids love your accent or that type of thing as well.

Pat: Yeah. That’s good. I keep my show swear free. We talked about editing earlier, I interviewed one person, I won’t mention his name but I spent three hours editing it because I had to remove every swear word. The next time he came to the show, he didn’t do any at all so maybe that gives you a clue who’s a two-time guest on SPI. But I mean kids listen because they’re in the car with mommy and daddy. That’s partly why I’m kind of a little sad about Gary Vaynerchuk because I love Gary’s stuff. I love how motivating he is but I can’t share him with my seven-year-old because then my seven-year-old will get sent to detention afterwards.

Yeah, anyway it’s your show though. Depending on who you want your audience to be, you can make it any show you want. I know a lot of people who do swear because that’s who they are on their podcast and that’s totally okay too.

Darren: Totally. A big shout out to all the kids listening today.

Pat: Yeah, love you guys.

Darren: Stats and metrics, I kind of want to wind this up but I’m really interested to hear how you work out whether a show was successful or not. Are you looking at download numbers, iTunes rankings, show note visitors, conversions in terms of how many people sign up for your email or does it change from episode to episode?

Pat: It is not about the numbers for me. In terms of success of a podcast it is, are you actually helping people on the other end? That to me is what defines success. Are you actually serving others? Whether it’s 100 people or 100,000 people per episode, I still think it’s important to realize that you are there helping people. And when you can help 100, those 100 people can share your show with another 100 people.

Let’s talk about that number really quick because a lot of people will say, “Oh, I only have 100 downloads per episode”. But then I say, “Okay well, let me invite you to a conference and let me put you in a room in front of 100 people. Now, how do you feel?” Of course, they’re like, “A little nervous now. I’m getting goosebumps thinking of that”. We’ll that’s how it is on your show.

That’s the kind of relationship that you could build and if you treat your 100 subscribers like they’re just a number, well of course they’re not sharing your show, of course not. No, you need to treat them like gold and give them the time and attention that you would a person who comes and flies over to you and gets a hotel and sees you speak at an event. And then you can grow it from there.

It’s insane when I think about this analogy in terms of the numbers that I have now. I’m walking into a stadium every single week in front of 100,000 people and I’m right there in the middle and everybody’s there ready and listening to me. It just partly scares the crap out of me because that would really scare the crap out of me in real life.

But it also inspires me. It’s like all these people, I could change their lives. I could help them and when I get the responses back, when I see people enjoying the show, that to me is what success is. The numbers, obviously, they’re important to look at to make sure that you’re continually growing, that you’re actually getting downloads just to make sure there’s no errors of course.

But email list, being added to is important too. I think it’s important to ask yourself what is the most important metric for you. I think it varies for every person. For me, I have a really interesting one and that is how many thank you responses could I get in my email inbox everyday. That is a sign to me that okay, I’m doing things right. It depends on the person.

Darren: Yeah. That 100 people who could be listening, you’re spending an hour with them. That’s 100 hours of conversation that you have emitted. That’s the other reminder I think to make. You’re having hundreds of thousands of hours of conversation with people and that’s amazing but 100 hours is pretty amazing too. I couldn’t schedule that much time with people during the week. A hundred  hours is great.

Tell me about an episode—you see what I did there?—which you would consider to be your most successful episode. Why was it successful in your eyes?

Pat: I’ll tell you a funny story. A lot of people know that I’m an adviser for a company called LeadPages. LeadPages is co founded by a man named Clay Collins. I invited Clay on the show to just talk about LeadPages and to share some insight with people to inspire them so I invited him on the show. We recorded and it was okay. Clay always has great things to say and amazing stories to share.

But afterwards, I think it was the next day, I messaged Clay and I told him, I knew he would appreciate this especially as an adviser to LeadPages because we obviously talked about that in the show, I replied back and I said, “Clay, a part of me feels like we could do better”. And he was like, “What do you mean? I thought we had a great interview. You said it was great”. I said, “Yeah, I know but I feel like we could take it another level up. I want people to be blown away by your story. Can we sit down for a half hour at some point?” He’s like a CEO of a multimillion-dollar company and he immediately said “Yes”. He’s like, “Yes. Let’s do it. Let’s take the approach of let’s make this the most downloaded episode ever”.

He and I spent a lot of time and then he spent time even offline, outlining a specific structure. This is episode 263. Typically, episodes of mine nowadays get downloaded over 100,000 times after six weeks. After the six-week period, 100,000 people are on average getting through this episode. After two weeks, this new episode that we recorded, you can see the structure, essentially, what we ended up talking about was how to go from four figures to five figures to six figures to seven figures essentially. Talking about this in terms of like stepping up in a ladder. Every rung of a ladder requires different mindset, a different set of comfort zone, getting out of that, etc. After two weeks, this episode had 350,000 downloads.

I didn’t do anything different to promote it. That’s the other thing. I didn’t do anything different than what I normally do. Because we paid attention to what the content was about, it had gone viral. It was just really cool because I was a little scared to ask Clay if we could do this again because I felt like we talked for an hour and a half and that was an hour and a half that we never ended up using. But we had to get through that and so, the point of the story is that it’s your show and you can make it as great as you want it to be and I was very thankful that Clay was very understanding with that.

Another very popular episode I have, which I’m already seeing, is it came out today actually, Darren, this is an interview with a woman named Cassidy. I know this is going to be a big one. She makes six figures a year helping people plant succulents. Succulents are a kind of plant. To share her story in this really obscure niche, nobody has ever heard of Cassidy. Most people who are listening to my podcast, they’ve never heard of this woman. But already, I’m getting emails and messages about just how inspiring this is because like I said earlier, I’m making somebody who follows SPI the hero of the story. I’m making it seem like what she has achieved is achievable.

Because of that, because of the obscure niche, because of the way she tells her story, and because it’s relatable, it’s getting an amazing, amazing response. Two different perspectives in terms of let’s make a great episode for me.

Darren: They’re great stories. It’s often those ones that just come out of left field that you don’t expect to go big, that just resonate with people on a deeper level and get shared around.

Pat, I could talk to you for hours and we’ve gone over what I thought we were going to talk about.

Pat: Sorry.

Darren: No. It’s gold. I really appreciate that you are responsible for starting this podcast. I went through your free podcast tutorials when I started. It took me about a month to get going and they were gold for me. But what was missing from those tutorials was the interaction with you and with other podcasters and so, when you released Power-Up Podcasting, your course, I think it was in July this year, I was so excited for your students because the thing that was missing for me that would’ve sped up the process and would’ve improved my podcast so much was the interaction with people who have been there and done it before and other people who were going through that experience right now. I was really excited when you launched Power-Up Podcasting.

I was so excited to hear that quite a few of our readers and our listeners went through the course. You mentioned Jason Skinner before. He’s one of our listeners of this and he is one of our attendees of our event. When I caught up with him at our event this year, he was absolutely raving about you and your course. I think you’ve actually got a case study from him on your sales page. You can go and listen to that. He’s got a podcast called Business Made Easy. Launched his podcast as a basis for that and so I was really excited to see you doing that.

You open that for a limited time for people and very generously and kindly opening it up for ProBlogger readers, I think fairly exclusively at the moment so we’re very excited about that. I just wonder if you can talk us through what it the course, who is it ideal for, and anything else you think our readers need to hear to make a call on whether it’s right for them.

Pat: Sure. If you’re still listening to this episode, it’s more than likely that you have this urge and knowledge that you should start a podcast. I wanted to start a podcast back in 2008 because of a podcast that I had listened to that have really changed my life. I knew that if I was able to grab onto this medium, I can potentially change other people’s lives too.

But like I said way earlier in the interview, I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t have the help. I didn’t have any structure. I just had to figure it out on my own. And because of that, I didn’t get it done until a year and a half later. And so, I feel like with the success of how with the podcast that I’ve created, I have five podcasts of my own, actually, and with just my teaching style, it’s sort of become my mission now to help people start their own podcast if they want to. That’s why I’m here.

It’s not just to help you set it up like you’re talking about, Darren, and it’s also not just to help you get found. That’s the other sort of super power that I have to offer people kind of like what we hinted on earlier. But it’s really like you said, that access. I think that’s one thing that’s unique about me and the courses that I produced, is you get a lot of access to me and also a community of other students.

I’ve already prepped the students who are in there now. There are several hundred of them who have gone through the course already, graduates, if you will. That a brand new set of students are going to come in and we always do sort of a nice welcome for all the new students to make them feel like they’re at home. They’re in the right place and they’re in the right community.

Also, to see some of the wins that some of the existing students have had so they can look up and see something they could strive for. In addition to that, this is what’s really unique. I actually was asked by a number of people who are colleagues of mine, why I do this and why I don’t do it at a higher price point. You could see the price point on the sales page but most of my colleagues were like, “Okay, what you offer on top of that should be at a higher price point”. But no because like when I took courses, when I first started, it was just a little bit of access to the course creator that really made the big difference between the course, is that it really did help me in the course and that did not.

Sometimes, you just need one or two questions answered and very quickly, to push you forward. That’s why when you join, you’re going to see that there’s these things called office hours. I will get on a live call in front of the entire group. Whoever wants to join, you have lifetime access to the course. You have lifetime access to the community and you also have lifetime access to all these office hours even for future enrolment periods. I will be there and I will answer every single question that comes across within an hour.

Multiple office hours happen every single month. For this next launch, there’s actually nine that are scheduled within three or four weeks after the launch period closes. This is only open for seven days. I like to work with the students that are coming in, in a group. It’s easier for me to answer questions. It’s easier for me to hold their hand through the process and that’s the number one thing people have said, “Pat, you give so much of yourself. I guarantee you, you will not find another course online about podcasting, let alone anything where you get this much access to people who are there to support you including the course instructor”.

I’m just really excited to welcome a new batch of students in there, especially from the ProBlogger community who I care so deeply for. Go in there and you’ll see other members who are a part of the ProBlogger community as well and then you get to meet a number of other people too. But really, this course takes you through the whole thing, from start to finish.

First of all, pre-launch, all the things you need to do before you launch your show. That’s stuff about what your show is going to be about. I help you understand what that’s going to be, what the title should be, getting your description down, making it optimized for iTunes SEO, all those kinds of things. Getting your artwork done, ordering your equipment, getting it sent to you, etc.

The next phase is then planning not your podcast in general but your podcast episodes. One of my big strengths is content creation and planning and so I put that into step two here in the pre launch phase. I show you who should you be interviewing and why, what should your content be about, how should it be structured, what should be your first episode should be about, etc. what call to actions should you create, all those kinds of things.

And then we get into a little bit more of the technical stuff, a lot of the scary stuff that was very scary to me when I first started. If any of you have seen ever any of my tutorial videos, you know that I give you the quickest and easiest way to learn these things. And so, I do the same thing with various versions of different kinds of software you can use, how to organize your files, recording tips to make it easier for you to do editing down the road and how to interview.

Then we get into a few more technical things and then I give you your launch execution plan. This is the big one that helps you get found not just to help you get your podcast up but help you get found on launch day. So what we were talking about earlier creating an event, I give you a walkthrough of all the things you need to do during launch week, during launch day, all those kinds of things.

And then later on, you’ll get into the post launch stuff where you can learn about how to read the stats, how to automate your show, how to repurpose stuff, how to get onto like the new and noteworthy in rankings and all those kinds of things.

Finally, there’s a lot of bonus material there too. For example, how to grow your community with a podcast, grow your email list, how to monetize. There’s a whole bonus section with five videos on monetization strategies and then also interviewing in person if you’re going to do that and then always access to the recordings of the office hours too.

It’s a complete package and I’m just really excited, like I said, to take care of anybody who is interested and wants the right way to do it in the most efficient and most quality way possible.

Darren: That’s great. It’s a very generous course in terms of what you cover and your own personal access. I think it’s really exciting for people who want that a little bit extra that I can’t get through the free tutorials that are around.

Head over to problogger.com/powerup. We will send an email out to you if you’re on our list as well, just with that link and with those details. Check out the case studies on that page. I love the case study. They’re from Jason but also Sophie Walker who’s another Aussie. She’s got a podcast called Australian Birth Stories. Actually, earlier today, I was on iTunes and she is number one in her category. She’s in UN-noteworthy Australia and she’s I think number 40 in the whole of Australia for all topics and categories.

Pat: She’s crushing it.

Darren: She is doing amazing things and she’s got a podcast about stories of child birth. So, you’ve got Jason there who’s got a business podcast. You’ve got Sophie there who’s got a podcast on giving birth. It’s not just for one type of podcaster. There’s a great variety there from what I can see just in the case studies, let alone who’s in the course.

Pat: If you want to be the expert in your niche, it’s definitely a way to do it. It’ll also help you become an expert by interviewing other experts too through association. It’s just amazing platform and I wholeheartedly believe that I have the best course out there to help walk you through that process. It is the best thing I’ve ever created.

Darren: It sounds like a great investment. Again, it’s problogger.com/powerup. You’ve got a 100% money back guarantee, I see there as well so if you want to check it out.

Pat: Absolutely.

Darren: I do wholeheartedly recommend Pat to you. Thank you so much, Pat. I appreciate the time that you’ve generously given to our audience today. I look forward to hearing of the podcast that would be born as a result of the last hour and 20 minutes of podcast today.

Pat: Thank you, Darren, for the opportunity. Thank you for those of you who listened all the way through. I look forward to working with you.

Darren: Thanks man.

Wow, there’s a lot of good information in that one. I hope you’ve got as much value out of it as I did personally from talking to Pat today. Again, the show notes today are at problogger.com/podcast/211.

If you are interested in talking Pat’s course, I can highly recommend it to you. Head over to problogger.com/powerup. It’s only open for seven days though and if you are listening after the seven day window has closed, there will be an option there for you to sign up for a waitlist and be notified next time it goes live.

As I mentioned at the top of the show, Pat is also speaking at our Dallas event this year, Success Incubator. We’ve got a small group but a powerful group of speakers coming along to that event. There’ll be time for interacting with our speakers including Pat, Rachel Miller, who spoke in recent podcast and Kim Garst, who’s speaking about Facebook live.

I’ll be talking, doing the opening keynote on evolving your blog and business, so much more. We’ve got lots of masterminding opportunities too so head over to problogger.com/success to get information on that or just head to today’s show notes where there’ll be links to all of these things.

Lastly, I just want to be clear that I am an affiliate for Pat’s course. However, as you can tell from this interview, I’m also a raving fan and a good friend and I would be promoting whether it had the affiliate link or not. Just be clear, I do make a commission if you buy that but that’s how we keep this show going for free.

Thanks for listening today. I do hope you’ve got value out of it. I can’t wait to hear your podcast. If you start one because of this event, I want you to share it with us. Head over to the Facebook group and let us know about that podcast. There’ll be an opportunity to do that in our weekly wins thread.

Thanks for listening. Chat with you next week in episode 212.

How did you go with today’s episode?

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211: Creating a Successful Podcast – Advice from Pat Flynn

Advice from Pat Flynn on How to Create a Successful Podcast

Today I have a treat for anyone who has ever considered starting a podcast (or already has one), because I’ve just finished a Skype call with Pat Flynn about the art of podcasting.

  As I’ve mentioned in the past, Pat’s teaching on podcasting is the number one thing that helped me as I was starting the ProBlogger podcast two years ago. If it wasn’t for him, I probably wouldn’t have started at all.

And so I was very excited when he launched his Power-Up Podcasting course earlier this year, because I knew it would help many more Pre-Podcasters get into this amazing medium.

Pat spoke at our Aussie ProBlogger events earlier in the year (he’ll also be speaking at our Dallas event in October), and during that event we talked about how often I heard ProBlogger readers say things like “I really should start a podcast”.

It’s a statement I hear all the time. But it’s almost always followed up with something like “But I don’t know where to begin”’ or “But I don’t have the right gear” or “But it all seems so overwhelming”.

So I asked Pat if he’d be willing to come on the show and help those in our audience interested in podcasting take their first steps.

Today we jumped on Skype, and I put a lot of your questions and challenges to him in this interview.

Not only that, Pat has also opened up his Power-Up Podcasting course exclusively for ProBlogger listeners. His course opened for just a week in July when a couple of hundred students signed up, but then he shut the doors so he could concentrate on serving that first intake of students.

So this is pretty special. He’s opening it back up for only one week, and only for ProBlogger readers and listeners. You can see what it’s all about over at http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46.

Whether you enroll in the course or not, I encourage you to stay tuned to today’s interview.

In it Pat and I talk about

A tip for growing your podcast audience through Facebook Groups (it’ll help you grow your blog too)

What two of his most successful podcast episodes have been

What microphones he recommends if you’re on different budgets

Working out which format of podcast is right for you

Interviewing techniques to help you get conversations flowing

Surfacing stories in those you interview

Editing podcasts

The pros and cons of seasons vs ongoing episodes,

How to make your episodes sound more alive and energetic

Much much more.

Pat is incredibly generous with his advice in this episode. So whether you take his course or not, you’ll get a lot of inspiration and ideas from staying with us.

Again, if you’re interested in checking out the Power-Up Podcasting course head to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46 where for the next seven days you can enroll. If you’re listening after that seven-day period there will be an option to join his waitlist until the next time he opens the doors.

Links and Resources

Pat’s Course  (Disclaimer: I am an affiliate for Pat’s course but as you’ll hear I’m a genuine fan of what he does.)

Dallas Event

Audacity

Garageband

Libsyn

Buzzsprout

Microphones

ATR2100 from Audio Technica (affiliate)

Heil PR40 (affiliate)

Full Transcript Expand to view full transcript Compress to smaller transcript view

Darren: Hi there. My name is Darren Rowse and I’m the blogger behind problogger.com, a blog, podcast, event, job board, and a series of ebooks all designed to help you as a blogger to grow a profitable blog. You can learn more about what we do at ProBlogger over at problogger.com.

Today, I have a real treat for anyone who has ever considered starting a podcast or anyone who’s already got one, because I’ve jumped on a call today with Pat Flynn to talk about the art of podcasting.

As I mentioned in past episodes, Pat’s teaching on podcasting is probably the number one thing that helped me when I started getting into podcasting. I walked through a lot of his teaching to set up this very podcast. If it wasn’t for him, I have doubts as to whether I would’ve ever started at all.

Earlier this year, when he launched his Power-Up Podcasting course, I was very excited because I knew it was something that would help so many more pre-podcasters, people who wanted to get into this medium. Pat spoke at our Australian ProBlogger event earlier this year. He’ll be speaking at our upcoming Dallas one in October 2, by the way.

At the event earlier in the year, we got to talking about how often we heard ProBlogger readers say things like, “I really should start a podcast”. That is something I hear every week from ProBlogger readers. It’s a statement that comes very regularly, but almost always is followed up with something like, “But I don’t know where to start”. Or “I don’t have the right gear”. Or “It all seems so overwhelming”. These sort of excuses, these challenges, these problems that bloggers face. Sometimes, it’s also followed out with, “But I’m scared. I don’t like the sound of my own voice”.

As a result, I thought it would be good today to get Pat in on this particular episode to talk about some of those first steps that you need to take with podcasting, some of those things that are going to make it a little bit easier for you if you’ve been saying, “I really should start a podcast”.

Earlier today we jumped onto Skype, and I was able to put a lot of the questions that you asked in our Facebook group to Pat and presented some of those challenges that I know many of you have.

Now, Pat was very generous with his time today. We planned to be online for about 45 minutes but we ended up going well over an hour. He just had so much good stuff to say and so I’m very thankful for him. Not only that, he also has opened up his Power-Up Podcasting course exclusively for ProBlogger listeners at the moment. He opened this course earlier in the year. I think it was in July, just for a week, and several hundred students went through that course at that point but he also closed the doors after that week so that he could concentrate on serving that first intake of students.

I’ve twisted Pat’s arm and he is opening the doors just for you. No one else is able to get in at the moment so it’s pretty special that you can have access to that. So if you are interested in taking a course and going a little bit further, head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46.

Whether you enroll in that course or not, I do encourage you to stay tuned to today’s interview because in it, Pat shares a wealth of information. He talks about a tip for growing your podcast audience through Facebook groups that I never thought of myself. I think it would work also in growing your blog. He also reveals what his two most successful podcast episodes have been. He tells us about what microphones he recommends at different budget levels.

We talked about what format of podcast and how to choose the right format for you whether it be an interview or teaching course or something else, more narrative storytelling one. He shares interviewing techniques. I’ve got so much for you out of those interview techniques to get the conversation flowing.

He gives us a question that he asks regularly to help surface stories in those that you interview. We talked about editing podcast. We talked about seasons of podcast, whether you should just go with ongoing episodes. We talked about how to make your episode sound more alive and energetic and we talked about so much more along the way.

Pat has been so generous with his advice in this episode so whether you take that course, Power-Up Podcasting or not, you’ll get a lot of inspiration and ideas from staying with us for this episode today. Again, if you’re interested in checking out that course, Power-Up podcasting, head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46 where for the next seven days only, you can enroll. If you are listening to this after that seven day period, there will be a waitlist there that you can sign up for and he will let you know the next time the doors open.

Today’s show notes are also over at http://ift.tt/2xrR3YO. I’ll link there to all the resources and gear that Pat mentions in the show. Thanks for listening and I’ll talk with you at the end of this episode to wrap things up.

Darren: Pat, you’ve just returned home from Lisbon, one of my favorite cities in the world. I’m curious, when you were filling in your departure and arrival forms, what did you put in your occupation?

Pat: It’s hard. I never know how to answer that question. To answer that question for a nation, I just put entrepreneur and that’s really what I am. Man, Lisbon was amazing. That was my first time in Europe ever. I’m 34 years old and I finally made it to Europe. I was there to speak at an event. It was just beautiful. I attempted to vlog the whole thing, which is an interesting experiment and people seem to be enjoying that although it took a lot of hard work to edit all that stuff.

This is the year of international travel for me. I was at the ProBlogger event. My family and I came over and I spoke in Brisbane, in Melbourne, which was amazing. Thank you again for inviting me. It’s obviously just an amazing time with your people there. And then, later this year, I’m headed over to see Chris Ducker and what he’s got going on in London. I’m traveling, man, this year.

Darren: That’s great. One of the reasons I wanted to get you on the podcast today was the amount of people that came up to me at our event who said, “I came here because I either listen to your podcast or I listen to Pat’s podcast”. Podcasting was a massive reason that people came to our event this year and so I wanted to really drill in on podcasting because it’s something that you’ve been at now since was it 2009, 2010 you started out?

Pat: 2010 although I wanted to start one year earlier. I just got kind of scared of the whole thing. But yeah, I remember doing the workshops. The workshops were fantastic, by the way, where you did these little mastermind groups on day two of the event and a lot of the people who I was sitting at with in the tables were asking me about podcasting so your audience is hungry for it. I’m ready to give you as much as I can.

Darren: Yeah. My first question is do you see yourself more these days as a podcaster or as a blogger?

Pat: As a podcaster for sure. It was interesting because when I started podcasting, it was only every other week that I was coming out with a show. Because again, I was just kind of dipping my toes into it and it was a little bit difficult for me at first to figure things out on my own and I was still blogging three times a week.

But even six or seven months later, I went to an event and I started to meet a lot of fans and people who have read my blog and have gone to my site. They could not stop talking about the podcast. “Pat, the podcast was amazing. I love when you told that story about this.” Or “Oh, when you had that guest on your show, that was amazing”. I’m like, “What about my blog? I blog so much more”. But everyone I was speaking to was talking about the podcast.

That gave me a good clue that okay, maybe I should podcast a little bit more often and then I started to see amazing results from it. This sort of relationship building that happened because of it felt so much stronger than the relationships I was building from the blog. People were coming up to me and they would tell me these amazing things and I wouldn’t even know their name. They would talk to me like we’ve been friends forever and that’s really what the power of podcasting is. So yes, I primarily identify myself now as a podcaster, an award-winning podcaster and a teacher of podcasting and just somebody who’s just fallen in love with the medium.

Darren: You’ve just mentioned a few of the benefits, I guess, there from your experience. But from your students, you’ve now been teaching people how to podcast for a while now. What are some of the benefits that you see in those students of starting podcasts?

Pat: The different students have different results depending on what they’re looking for. The big one, I had a student from my previous enrollment period launch his podcast last week. It’s called Sober Together. He went through a period in his life where he was dealing with addiction and whatnot and he came out with this podcast, which was really hard for him to do.

And already, he’s getting emails from people who he would’ve never reached otherwise, saying, “Thank you so much for creating this. I feel like I have a place of a friend. I have a person I can look up to and who’s helping me through this tough time of my life”.

He was sending me messages of how incredibly thankful he was to have this medium that connect with people on such a serious topic. There are other people out there who have had brands already, who have now seen influxes of traffic come to their site. Many people have been finally able to contact and reach an authority level or an influencer in their space to invite them on their show when otherwise, they wouldn’t have been able to have that conversation with them.

Other people are now seeing clients. If you do any coaching or do any courses, online courses or things like that, it’s a great way a podcast is to get in front of an audience and give them a taste of what it’s like to learn from them. And then of course, if you offer coaching, it’s like, “Hey, you’ve heard me coach this other person or you heard me talk about this stuff. If you want to work with me further, you can get my coaching package”.

Everybody who has gone through my course, who has finished and completed it, is seeing results and it varies depending on what they do and what their offers are. But yeah, it inspires me so much to see people do the podcast much faster than I did when I started because like I said, I had so many hurdles to overcome. I was scared of what my voice was going to sound like. I was scared people who weren’t going to listen or if they did listen, they thought maybe I wasn’t qualified to talk about what I was talking about or they would just stop the show and listen to somebody else but to help new students through that is amazing. I’m just trying to pay it forward.

Darren: That’s great. You’ve mentioned there a few reasons that put you off podcasting when you first started. I’m actually interested in whether you think there are certain people who shouldn’t podcast. I’m trying to give, I guess, a realistic expectation here of is podcasting right for people. Is there anything that you would get people to ask before they decide to start a podcast in terms of things that might actually put them off and should put them off from podcasting? Or do you think it’s for everyone?

Pat: I feel like everyone could start a podcast but should everybody start a podcast? I don’t know. It sort of depends. Just coming from a very honest place, somebody who sells a course on this stuff, it’s like if you know that the podcast is there because it’s a bright, shiny, new object that’s going to take you away from what you know you should be doing because you’re scared of some other thing that you should be doing and it’s hard that you’re just trying something new, then I would say don’t do it because the last thing you want to do is start to fill your brain with all this extra stuff that’s going to take you away from where your focus needs to be.

However, I will say that a number of people have joined the course having lost a lot of focus and then now have refocused that energy into a content medium and a platform that they really feel energized about too. On one hand, it’s like, “Hey, don’t distract yourself”. But on the other hand, it’s like, if you have been struggling to find something that is really helping you spread your message. helping you create a connection, helping you meet other influencers, well then this is the one that maybe you can take energy away from something else and put all that energy into…

And the other thing I would say is that it is not just, “Alright, I’m going to start a podcast. I’m going to click a button and have a podcast of my own”. No. There’s a lot of work involved. There’s a lot of questions that need to be asked and there’s a lot of planning that needs to happen. This is why I created this course. I had a free tutorial for a long time, showing people how to do this but people still needed a little bit of handholding, some office hours to get questions answered.

I would say that if you’re somebody who isn’t going to really commit to the process of getting this up, then I wouldn’t do it. But I think most of your audience, they’re following you because they know that you have the information and that if they take action with that, most of them are committed to do that, then they should be okay.

Darren: Britney asked in our Facebook group about how much time it’s actually going to take. She said she’s busy with other forms of content creation. Do you have an amount of time if you want to do a weekly show that you need to be putting into it and to set it up? Realistically, is it going to take a week, two weeks, a month?

Pat: Well, setting it up, typically, all the students that have gone through my course were just getting all the information they need up front. I’ve had people do it as quickly as two weeks after purchasing Power-Up Podcasting and then I’ve had people spend six months because life has been so busy and they’ve been just consuming one lesson as they can. With lifetime access, there’s no worries there in terms of not getting enough in a short period of time.

Typically, I guess on average, it would take about a month to get set up. Potentially less if you work really hard at it and just devote all your energy to it. You can do it within two weeks. But I would actually say a month is actually perfect because what I teach in the course is not just how to set up your podcast. It’s also how to get found. That’s where a lot of other podcasting courses sort of miss out.

I think that’s my specialty, the marketing put on top of the podcast to make sure that you’re not wasting your time with getting your show up but you’re actually getting results from it like we talked about earlier. What I would recommend is having a couple of weeks to actually start building buzz for your show. Even though you might have it ready and set up, you’re still going to want to tease a little bit.

What I recommend is to create an event out of the launch of your podcast. This is for anything, if you’re creating a blog, if you’re creating a video blog, or a YouTube channel. When ProBlogger happens, Darren, you don’t just open up the doors and say, “Alright guys, come on in.” You tell people months at a time because it’s such a big thing. You don’t need to tell people months ahead of time about your podcast but a few weeks is great to get people excited about it.

You can start teasing clips here and there and you get people ready to subscribe and you might even want to do a contest or a giveaway in the beginning to get some ratings and reviews and more downloads that’s going to help you in the rankings in iTunes.

The nice thing about podcasting is once you get everything set up up front, then all you have to worry now, and you know this Darren, is just producing each individual episode. Everything almost happens automatically after you publish that episode from there. There’s no having to go into iTunes every time and upload an episode every time. It doesn’t work like that.

Your audience knows what feeds are. Podcasts work with feeds and you give iTunes, you give Stitcher, you give Google Play your feed. Every time that feed updates, those directories automatically update and then everybody who’s subscribed to your show will automatically see it in their device the next time that show comes out after they subscribe.

That’s the beauty of the podcasting thing. Your episodes get pushed out similar to how people used to follow blog content on the RSS readers that we all used to have. It’s the same way with podcasting.

But the other cool thing about podcasting specifically is that the way that people consume that content is different than any other content out there, for example, video or blogging. People are consuming podcasts on the go while walking their dog, at the gym, on the plane, on a commute. It’s an amazing way to get in front of an audience where no other content medium can.

Not only that. It’s not just the content type, it’s how long they’re listening. Most people are listening for 30 minutes to an hour. That’s way more than a person would spend on your blog. If you look at the average time people spend on your blog, it’s probably 5 to 10 minutes, on average. People watching a video, it might be anywhere between 10 to 20 minutes for those longer ones. Most videos that are consumed on YouTube are probably within 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Tim Ferriss has a show that some of the episodes go over two hours. There’s a Joe Rogan podcast, each episode is an hour and a half. There’s a great podcast called Hardcore History. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that one. Some of those episodes are five and a half hours long and I think that’s too long. I tried listening to that show.

The point of this is people are listening. They’re putting the podcast into their daily lives while they’re doing other things and you talk about a way to build a relationship. They’re listening to your voice. They’re hearing and feeling your emotion. It’s just so, so powerful. Once you get up and running, I would say, and I teach you these techniques. You could probably get an episode out every week on your own in two and half to three hours each week. Almost the same amount of time that might take you to produce a blog post.

I feel now, now that I’ve been doing this for a while, the podcast is just far easier to produce than a blog post.

Darren: I’m completely with you. I know I can outline a teaching episode in 20, 30 minutes particularly if you’ve already written on the topic and you’ve already got a blog post there that you can base it off and update and then you speak to it and people will forgive the mumbles or the little stumbles or you can edit them out later and it takes as long to record it as it takes you to speak it.

Pat: Yeah. Keep those uhms in there. Keep those kinds of things that I just did in there because that makes it more real. I remember when I first started, I tried to remove every uhm, every weird pause, every breath and I listened to the episode and it just didn’t sound real because when you talk to people in real life, nobody speaks perfectly. If they do, I don’t know, it just sounds different and it’s real life. It makes your life easier too because you don’t have to edit all that stuff out and you get better over time.

That’s another sort of side benefit I found of podcasting. I wasn’t a great communicator at first. I loved blogging because I can write and delete and edit and write and delete and edit again. With podcasting, you can do that. But forcing myself to just go, A) saves me time with editing but B) I’ve now been practicing communication by talking into the microphone and now, it’s given me confidence to get up on stage. It’s given me confidence to have conversations and be able to deliver a story much better in a more impactful way. I still stumble every once in a while but like we were saying, that’s how it is in real life.

Darren: A few other questions that we got in the Facebook group for you centered around gear. I know gear is not the most important thing that we need to talk about really.

Pat: It’s so fun to talk about gear, right?

Darren: Let’s talk about gear for a few minutes. Particularly, it’s interesting, Imogen in the group said if you’re a complete beginner and money is tight, do you have any recommendations for why gear would be I guess necessary at first because when money is tight, we need the bare minimum and then maybe if you’ve then got the next level up, do you have any next steps in terms of the improving sound quality and recording?

Pat: The sound quality is really important. People can find your show and you might have the best, most helpful content in the world, but if it’s not sounding great, most people in the podcasting world expect a great sound. Luckily for us, it doesn’t cost very much to do that.

When I teach podcasting, I want to give you the bare minimum amount that you’ll need to spend in addition to whatever it is you might be already investing. People have really loved me for that because I know how it is. It’s tough. But if you’re going to invest in taking the time to do a podcast, you want to invest just a little bit more than a $20 microphone to have great sounding audio because you want people on the other end to really enjoy the audio of your show.

I’m just going to give you the microphone right now that you should be using. It’s called ATR2100 by Audio-Technica. The beauty about this microphone, actually let me click on the link now. I believe it is right now $60 on Amazon, which is amazing. Plus the idea that you don’t have to buy a mixer and all these other boxes with all the dials and stuff. You don’t need any of that stuff. All you need is a computer with a USB plug in and this microphone will work.

It sounds just as good to non-professional broadcasters as this microphone that I’m using right now, which is a higher level one. It’s about $400. It’s called a Hiel PR-40. It sounds just like this one. It’s mobile. This microphone that I have right now, that I’m using here at my office, it’s not portable. It needs a mixer because it has what’s called an XLR connection, which uses a giant cable connection that has these three prongs at the end of it. The Audio-Technica ATR2100 is a USB mic and it sounds fantastic.

That, a microphone stand, you can edit using your free GarageBand or there’s another tool called Audacity out there. That, you can use to edit your show and really, that’s all you need. That and a little foam ball that goes over your mic so that the ‘p’ sounds and the ‘b’ sounds don’t pop in people’s ears when they’re listening. That it. Less than $100. And then for hosting for your audio, $7 a month. That’s it and it’s really, really inexpensive these days to get high quality sound.

Back in the day, when podcasting started, podcasting has been around since the early 2000s and it was for the nerds and the geeks who understood feeds, audio and broadcasting. Now, we’re in an age where anybody can do it and you’re seeing it. You’re seeing shows from people with regular brands up on iTunes competing and beating the big names and now building an audience, building relationships.

As much as I would love for everybody to have the top level equipment, you don’t need that. You can save that money or spend it on going to a conference to build relationships and then invite those people on your podcast, for example, instead.

Darren: You mentioned at hosting, a big no-no is to host it alongside your blog on those servers.

Pat: Don’t host it on your own. Where you host your blog, don’t host your audio for your podcast there too because it’s going to eat up a lot of bandwidth and of course, it’s going to also affect the speed of your website. It might crash it. For whatever reason, you might get for example, an influencer one day might link to your show because they really enjoyed it or maybe you featured them on your show and they were like, “Hey, listen to my show or listen to me on Darren’s show”. And then boom, you get this influx of traffic. Everybody’s downloading at the same time and you’re wondering why your website is slow. And people are listening to your show and they’re going to your website and they’re like, “Why is this website not working? It’s too good to be true. I’m going to move on to somebody else”.

You don’t want that kind of scenario so always best to host your audio files on a server that is specifically for the audio files. There are two that I recommend. The one that I recommend, that I trust more than any other is Libsyn. They’re great. They have been in this arena for over a decade and they’re very reliable. Everything is super smooth and fast there so that’s who I would go with if you’re going to start a podcast. The other one is Buzzsprout.

Darren: Okay. It’s amazing how cheap it is, really, when you think about the bandwidth that’s getting tuned up on a fairly large scale. It’s very affordable to get into. Bret asked how important is it to have things like music, professionally recorded intros, outros, breakers, outwork? How much should you be investing into that? Can you do it all yourself or would you recommend that that’s an area to invest in?

Pat: You can do it all yourself. I did my own voiceover for a while and I produced music in GarageBand and I tested that for a little bit and then I hired somebody else to do it for me. Actually, the intro to The Smart Passive Income, I produced it myself. I just grabbed an audio file from a royalty free audio site and then I just hired a guy to do the voiceover on top of it. You can find people on Fiverr now who are great, for $5 to $10.

There are obviously people at an upper level who can do voiceover treatment for you. There’s a company called Music Radio Creative that can give you the whole package with the music and the intro, the outro, and the sounds and the sound effects and stuff. But honestly, you don’t need that. That’s going to add a little bit of flavor to your show in the beginning and a little bit of professionalism but honestly, if you are there in the beginning telling a great story, you don’t need any of that stuff.

Just tell a great story. Get people into your world and show them what it is that you have to offer them and they’re going to be hooked. From there, then you can add maybe later on, some music and other things like that.

The artwork however, as you mentioned, is really important because people before they listen to your show, they’re actually going to see it first. They’re going to see the artwork and the artwork is sort of like just the first impression so you want it to be great. You can do it on your own. A lot of my students do it on their own using something like Canva or I think PicMonkey is the other one.

I don’t remember the other one that somebody used but you can do it on your own. The file size is quite large actually because it’s for all the systems that podcasts run on including Apple TV. A 3,000 x 3,000 pixel, which is a lot, but what Apple automatically does is shrink that down and make it for iPad, for iPhone, etc.

A couple of things for artwork, you want it to stand out so look at the categories on iTunes and find what other shows are going to be there and find one that stands out. The person I mentioned earlier, Michael, he is in the self-help category and he really smartly chose a yellow color when all the other colors are not yellow at all. His show stands out very, very well.

You also want to keep the text on your artwork minimal because again, when it’s shrunken down and most people are finding them either on a website or most likely on their phones, a lot of times, when there’s too much text, it’s going to be illegible. And then finally, you want to make sure that there’s just something there that resembles what the show is about. It could be a picture of you. It could be a picture of your logo, like yours. It could be a symbol that represents what it is that you do. It can be anything. Really, you just need to get it up there, make it look great and then move on with your show from there.

It’s just kind of a one0-time decision up front and you can invest as much as you want in that but you don’t have to get too crazy.

Darren: With all those things, you can add, change, and upgrade and refresh them later on so don’t get too stuck on that. I’ll show you a way out. I think it’s probably more important.

Pat: Just like starting a blog. How many times do we waste like four weeks on, I just the perfect theme or I just need to get this logo designed. Get it out there. You can perfect those things later.

Darren: Format is another question that I got asked a few times. Interview, panels, co-host, talking head, narrative, there are all these different kinds of podcast and as soon as you dig into iTunes, you can see there’s a huge variety. How do you make that decision? Is it about your personality? Is it what you like listening to? Is it the topic or is it all of those things together? How do you make that decision?

Pat: What I would recommend is go into iTunes. Start listening to a few podcasts and start paying attention and being conscious to the format, the structure, the style, the pacing, those kinds of things. Over time, even just over a day, you’re going to start to realize, well I like this or I don’t like this. You can incorporate those into your own show too and put your own voice, your own spin, your own personality and character into it.

Interview shows are typically the ones that most people do because approaching that, you’re like, “Oh, this is easy. I just have to talk and ask questions and have the other person who I invite in the show produce the content for me”. That’s kind of half true because yes, the other person is going to answer your questions but the most important things when it comes to an interview show is asking the right questions.

I teach a lot of interview techniques and how to go deeper. The one thing I would recommend is don’t just have a list of questions that you want to ask and just only stick to those. My pet peeve, and there’s a lot of popular shows that do this, but my big pet peeve is when you go, “Okay, question number one… Okay. Thank you. Question number two…”. Don’t do that. After they answer question number one, what about like, “How did you feel when that happened?” Just like a regular interview would be, a regular conversation.

When you go to a café with a friend and you’re literally talking to them and trying to discover more things about them, first of all, you’re not presenting them a list of questions and secondly, you’re not just moving on from topic to topic after every answer. You’re going deeper. You’re having a real conversation. That’s a frame of mind that I like to offer people. When you get into an interview with somebody, you could even say this to the person you’re interviewing. It’s a great way to make them feel better about what they’re about to do with you in terms of the interview.

I always say when I bring a guest on, I say, “Let’s just pretend we’re in a coffee shop. I’m getting to know you and we’re just chatting. Don’t worry about the audience. They’re just a fly on the wall”. That typically will get people a little more comfortable to that point where they’re going to share deeper information. The gold really comes three or four levels deep after you ask an initial question. If you move on to the next question too soon, you might not get to that good stuff that’s going to make your show unique versus when other people perhaps try to interview that person too.

Speaking of getting people to say yes to interviews, that can be very difficult. A few tips there I just want to give to you. First of all, asking authors or people coming out with promotions of some kind, they’re likely going to say “Yes” during those times so you can ask them because they’re going to be wanting to get in front of as many people as possible.

I remember when I launched my book ‘Will It Fly?’ In 2016, I wanted to get on every single podcast that I could and so I was saying yes to everybody. Look for authors. If you want to look for a big name, that’s where I would start. The other thing is look for other people who have already done podcasts. They kind of know what that’s about. People who seem to be on many shows are going to be more likely to say “Yes” to new ones.

Also, from there, you can then begin to name drop. If you find an author, for example, and you promoted his book because it was coming out, you reach out to somebody else and you can say, “Oh, I’ve interviewed people like Tim Ferriss or Gary Vaynerchuk”. These people who came onto my show when they were doing certain promotions because I knew they would be more likely to say “Yes” then.

But now, people are like, “Ooh, you interviewed Tim Ferriss? You interviewed Gary Vaynerchuk? You interviewed Darren Rowse? Okay, I will say yes to your show”. The final tip I have for you, related to who to interview would be, you don’t have to interview A-listers. I think this is a big misconception, is “Oh, I have to get the top guys on the show and that’s how I’m going to be popular”.

No. Interview amazing people. There are amazing people in this world who have amazing stories to share, who nobody has even heard of yet. My most popular episodes are not the one with Tim Ferriss or Gary Vaynerchuk or other big names. It’s the one with somebody that nobody has ever heard of before like Shane and Jocelyn Sams from episode I think 122, who are just two people from Kentucky, in the United States, who happen to find Smart Passive Income and talk about how they then transition from being a teachers to online entrepreneurs. That is one of the most downloaded episodes ever because not only are people listening to it because people can feel like they can relate to them because they’re only just a couple of steps ahead versus the A-listers who are out and in stratosphere.

They also are more likely to share it because those people represent the major part of my audience. Don’t just interview A-listers. Interview non A-listers, the B- and C-listers out there. The people who are trying to be up and coming in that space. They’re going to be likely to say “Yes” because they want to be getting that exposure.

Also, if you have a brand already, interview success stories that you’ve helped to create. This something that actually helped promote in my last launch for the podcasting course. I interviewed three students. I interviewed them about what it was like to start a podcast and some of the struggles that they had and of course, just naturally through that, they’re saying, “Oh, and your course was so great because of this and that”. It’s essentially just a testimonial.

Right now, you could probably think of one or two people who you know you’ve helped if you’ve already have a band out there in your blog or videos. Invite that person on your podcast and have them tell the story. It’s so much more powerful than you telling your audience, “Hey, this is why my stuff is great”. Somebody is saying it for you and they’re telling the stories behind it. Listening to their voice, nothing is more powerful in marketing.

Going back to one of the questions related to structure. The other structure to do that’s very easy is just solo episodes where you are by yourself and you are essentially doing what’s almost like a presentation. I remember when I used to do those. I used to script every single word that I was going to say because I was so afraid of missing something or saying something incorrectly or all the random pauses. I didn’t trust myself to share those things.

Some tips I have for you is one, is to understand first what is it that transformation you want your audience to go through? They’re one way and then they listen to your show and they come out a new way. What is that transformation you want them to go through? And then just bullet point the stories you want to tell, the facts, the case studies, the examples, all the things that then support that transformation happening from the point that a person starts to listen to your show to the point that a person ends.

And then, because you have those bullet points and because you’re trusting yourself just like you would in a conversation when those topics come up, you just go. You just let yourself talk about those things. If there are important things like quotes you want to mention, write those down or specific like five items that you want to cover. Write those down too. Don’t script out the whole thing. It sounds completely robotic. You’re going to put your audience to sleep if you do that. Just be natural. Try it.

Also, I need to say this. Your first episodes are going to be terrible. That’s okay. You have to get through that. I think it was John Lee Dumas who has I think 1,700 episodes now. He said that every master started as a disaster. I love that quote. That’s with everything not just podcasting. In order to get to the good stuff, you have to get through that disaster. Just get started.

Those are the two formats that I would recommend starting with. There are other ones such as, there are some people who have a fiction, ones where they’re just literally telling a story as if it’s a book. Other ones are more what’s called MPR style, documentary, journalistic style with interviews on the street with background music. I’ve done that kind of episode before. I think it was episode 138.

I took a recorder to Columbus, Ohio, where my team is and I was like, “Okay, I’m going to interview my team. I’m going to talk about this trip”. The episode ended up being 25 minutes. It was a good episode. There’s a lot of music. It felt like you were in Columbus interviews. You got to meet my team. It took eight hours to edit that episode. That’s why I haven’t done many of those. Because when you record an interview, you record the interview and then you can record maybe the formal intro later and boom! You have it ready to go. That’s formatting.

Darren: Pat, you were just so easy to interview. I said this at our event. You just answered six of my questions without me even asking one. But here’s my next question then. What happens when that doesn’t happen? When you have an interviewee who is awkward or is having a bad day or is just not in the flow with you, haven’t had that coffee? Sometimes, it just grinds and it’s hard to get them to reveal. It’s hard to get them to share something of themselves. It’s hard to get them talking. Do you have any tips for getting the flow going with someone particularly when you’re interviewing them?

Pat: Thank you for the compliment, first of all. Secondly, I’ve gone through that process of interviewing and having it be very difficult to get great information to get great information from them. One word answers even if it’s an open-ended question. Just a couple of sentences and then that’s it and then kind of a random pause. It’s difficult sometimes and honestly, I’ve done a couple of interviews where at the end, I’m just like, “Wow. Okay. That’s actually probably wasn’t a good recording”.

I’m not saying this to this person but I’m thinking it and then I often go back to them and I say, “You know what, I don’t know what it was. It was probably me”. It’s like I’m breaking up with them. “It wasn’t you. It was me. I just didn’t feel the energy. I’m really sorry. I’d love to perhaps reschedule this with you or perhaps find a way to make you more comfortable with the show but the way the content played out during our interview, I can’t publish it. I have really high standards for the content that I deliver and again, I think it was mostly my fault.” That’s typically the way that I do it. I’ve only had to do that twice out of over 300 interviews that I’ve done.

It doesn’t happen very often because I know some other strategies. For example, like I mentioned earlier, you’re making people feel comfortable with you when they are getting on the Skype call with you if you’re using Skype to record, which is what we’re using right now actually. Making them feel comfortable about that.

When I get people onto the show, I say, “Okay, we’re not recording yet because I want people to know when I’m going to hit record so just really quickly, an example might be like, “Hey Darren, thanks for coming on the show today. I’m not recording yet. I just want to check our levels first. Make sure you’re comfortable and again, remember, we’re just going to have a casual conversation just like we’re in a coffee shop so no worries there. Can I answer any question for you before I hit record?”

Again, this is like really setting this person up for comfortability, a little bit of control. You’re able to ask a few questions if there are any. “Oh, how long is this going to go for?” “Oh, 30 minutes.” “Okay, great.” Again, you’re just answering all their concerns up front.

And then one great tip I have during the show. If it’s not going very well, try to lead people to a story that they’re interested in telling. A lot of the times, people aren’t excited about answering facts or talking about case studies or things like that. People love to talk about stories about themselves. And so a great tip I have for you if you’re trying to get a story from somebody, and I learned this from the person who created the podcast called Startup, he said, “If you’re trying to get a story from somebody, just simply ask them hey, tell me about a time when _____”.

Don’t say blank but talk about the topic. “Hey Darren, tell me about a time when you were trying to write a blog post and it just wasn’t going well.” That just opens up Pandora’s Box because then, you’re giving that person permission, essentially to talk about themselves. People love to talk about themselves and moments in their life that happened and things that they can remember.

If it’s even still a struggle from there, you might have to kind of guide them a little bit. “Maybe not a blog post that you struggle with. Let’s go the opposite way, Darren instead. What about when you just felt like you’re in the flow? What allowed you to get into that state of mind where it was just so easy for you to write a blog post?” If it didn’t work out on that first one, I might flip the switch and try to find one that was the opposite.

Again, interview techniques come over time. I teach the stuff but it’s a great way to start to hone in on those strategies that you can get to really make your episode stand out.

Darren: Great tips. Interestingly, I’ve got to tell me about times my potential questions which leads me to I guess potential questions. When you’re going to an interview, you’ve already said don’t go through your list of questions, but do you go in with some general questions and some follow up questions?

The other part of that is do you do pre-interviews? Because I’ve noticed I’m getting asked to do more and more pre-interviews before shows where you either jump on with a post and he’s going to interview you and talk about what they’re going to interview you about or a producer of this. I’ve noticed more and more podcasters are using other people to prepare for the podcast. Have you done pre-interviews? Would you recommend them? Do you go in with those sort of questions based on those interviews or your own research?

Pat: Research and prepping for an interview, great topic. I don’t do pre-interviews myself. I feel like the pre-interview happens as we are coming up with the ideas or as I’m researching that person. In terms of research, it’s typically not a lot of research. Take somebody who has written a book for example. I want to know just what the book is about and a little bit about that person because when I ask questions, I want to be in the shoes of my audience.

I’ve listened to podcast episodes before where a person, I can tell has just done so much research about their guest so much so that I feel left out. They didn’t set it up properly. I’m feeling left out. And so, I don’t want my audience to feel that way. I want my audience to tell me later while you ask the exact same questions that I had in my head. That’s my favorite compliment to get as an interviewer, which is, “Oh man, I had that question in my head and then you asked it”. That’s such a good compliment.

By not doing a ton of research, you still have to do some. You don’t just want to be like, “Hey, I heard you were great. Why are you great?” You don’t want to approach the show like that. Use a little bit of common sense. I have been on other people’s shows where they have done pre-interviews and typically, these shows that do those are really, really high up their shows that are very difficult to get into that have a lot of people in their audience and they just want to make sure that their standards are going to be really high.

You don’t necessarily need to do them yourself, especially when you’re just starting out, but it is something you could incorporate. One thing I think you could potentially do to help prepare your person that you’re interviewing before you get them on to is just to, even some of my students have done this even on their own, is to send an informational email beforehand, that gives them some tips related to the microphone that they might be using and to make sure that the door is closed and that your phone is off. All those kinds of things.

That’s not necessarily pre-interview but it’s just prepping the person to have a better time with you also. That’s research for me. List of questions, I do have a few often when I’m interviewing somebody because I just know I want to get a story from them or I am just really curious about something. The cool thing about podcasting is it’s your show. You can run it any way you want. You are more than welcome to ask any questions that you like but obviously, you are speaking to somebody if you’re doing an interview so you know, you’re also talking to them at the same time so common sense, courtesy, and respect also play a role.

But you’re allowed to, if you’re feeling it, to push that person a little bit and to start to ask a little bit. Again, that’s where the gold comes out. There’s that line of comfortability just like put your toe in on that other side a little bit just to see and test okay, well how much can I get out of this person. When I select a guest to come on the show or when a person asks to be on my show, I will determine whether or not that person is right because A) they aren’t somebody who’s going to share something that anybody else has shared before on the show. B) I know that they have something of value to offer. If those two things are true, then I can often get those stories out and to help people through that transformation by asking the right questions.

Darren: That’s great information. I think that it’s amazing how many people would just accept any interviewee and don’t do that refining all of is this the right person for my show. Sometimes, I get pitched quite a bit by the celebrity’s issues and I push back on those because I know they’ve been everywhere and they’ve got an agenda that they’re going to push in the podcast and so I’m much more interested in getting an everyday person, someone that can relate to the audience to get on.

Pat: Can I offer another tip Darren? I typically just share this one with my students but I mean, I’m just so thankful to be talking about podcasting and Power-Up Podcasting, my course, today. I just want to give this to you because this is great and it’s great for bloggers, it’s great for video people, it’s great for podcasting so I don’t want to hold it back. That is a great person to interview is the owner of a forum.

In your niche, go to Facebook. Type in a keyword, maybe it’s knitting or something and look at the groups. When you type in that keyword, there’s another selection after that to just find all the groups. You’re going to find groups that have thousands of members. Click on that group. You don’t even have to join. It’ll tell you exactly who admin of that group is.

You can reach out to that admin and even message them directly through Facebook and say, “Hey Marissa, I see you have this knitting group here. Awesome community you’ve built. I’d love to feature you on my podcast about knitting and talk about how you came up with this idea and your specialty in knitting. What do you say?” More than likely, these people, the forum admins and owners are going to say “Yes”. They’re going to be flattered that somebody had reached out to them because more often than not, they’re not getting any exposure for what it is that they do.

Now, what are the chances, Darren, do you think that that person, when you feature them, when you make them the hero of that podcast, that they’re going to share that with their 5,000 plus members in their community? It is very, very likely. I’ve had students who have gone from zero audience to thousands of downloads per episode now just using this one strategy alone.

And so if you’re a blogger, you can do the same thing. “Hey, I’d love to feature your knitting community on my blog and talk about maybe if you have two or three tips and techniques to offer. My audience, I’d love to send them your way”.

But of course, what’s going to happen, they’re going to send their people your way as well. It’s just been one of the best tips. I share a lot of cool things like that that can help you get exposure but I just wanted to give that one away.

Darren: That’s gold. It struck me that someone who is admin of a forum or a group is possibly a different kind of person to someone who’s a big blogger. They may not be quite as self-promotional. They’re much more interested in the community. It’s a different kind of person to get on as well. Yeah, gold. Love it.

Pat: Writing it down.

Darren: Listeners, just move across to editing a little bit because I think editing is something that a lot of bloggers who are considering podcasting get caught up on, is how do you edit? What tools should you use to edit? But also, how much should you edit? This is one thing I’m interested to hear with you. In your interviews of people, are you editing the interview or do you just let it play? Are you chopping out parts? Are you rearranging it in any way or you’re just someone who just lets it run from start to finish?

Pat: Every time they say something great about me, that’s all I include. That’s it. No. I’m just kidding. I keep the interviews straight away the whole time unless there’s something in the middle that happens like a disconnect and we have to reconnect later or I’ve actually had a coughing fit one time where it lasted for like 30 seconds. I’m not going to leave that in the show. Sometimes, I’ll sneeze and I’ll just leave it in and I’ll be like, “That’s real life”. People comment on that. They’re like, “I love how you left that sneeze in there. It’s kind of an interesting reset button”.

Most of the time, I just leave it all the way and I don’t chop it up. I don’t want to only show the best parts. I try to do my best as an interviewer to keep it interesting the whole time and on path. Sometimes, when you interview somebody, your line of sight is down this one line and then all of a sudden, something happens and then you’re like way and left feel here. You’re in another country talking about some random other topic, which is fine. It’s okay to do that every once in a while.

As long as you know what that transformation is you want or what the stories you want them to tell you, you can always add a stopping point. “Alright, we’re off of the tangent here. Let’s go back to what we were initially talking about earlier and blah, blah, blah.” You can take it there. Yeah, I don’t chop up these interviews. I leave them all the way in. That of course makes it so much easier when it comes to editing.

I do chop up however when I’m recording on my own. This is funny. I had a guy, actually, he attended ProBlogger event, Jason Skinner, amazing guy. He came up with a podcast and he was just so excited about it. He’s doing great. I remember when he was first recording his show, he was saying something like, “Man, I did like ten takes of my first episode. I just can’t get it right. What’s going on?” And then the final sentence was something like, “I just can’t record for 15 minutes straight without making an error”. I was like, “What? You’re trying to record a 15…” Nobody can record a 15 minutes straight without making an error. That’s insane. He’s like, “What do you mean?” I said, “Record as much as you can and when you fumble, just click stop and then edit that part out where you fumbled and just pick up where you left of and keep going. When people listen to the final version at the other end, they would have no idea that you fumbled and messed up”.

I even show this in my course. If you look at my timeline in GarageBand for one episode that I do, you’ll see it’s chopped up into a couple dozen pieces because it took a couple dozen tries for different parts to get it in there but never have I done ever one episode straight through when it’s a solo episode of my own. Sometimes, I’ll tell a story and then I forget where I’m going and then I just okay, wait, I got to redo that. Let me go back to where I was or back to that middle part before I get to that closing part and then let’s click record and go again. It always happens. That’s how you edit your show when you’re doing it on your own.

Darren: That’s great. There are no rules for this stuff either. I think it’s good to communicate that to a new podcast, is you can stop halfway. You can edit. You can do it in one take if you’re good at that. It’s totally fine. One of the thing I’ve learned to do is to listen back to my podcast before I pass them off to my editor. They look up where the energy is and where the flow is. If there is a dead patch in an interview, it’s okay if you want to, to chop that part out. The same for you. As you listen to yourself, you’re going to go, “I really slumped there. I’m going to chop that out. I’m going to re-record that. There’s no harm in it doing it again.” So great advice.

Pat: You learned a lot about yourself when you podcast. By listening to your show specifically as well. My first episode is still online on iTunes and I can’t listen to it because it’s just terrible and so I feel like I speak so slowly and there’s a lot of uhms and I’m counting everyone of them. You can sort of as you go through all the episode, over time, you start to see the progression. You start to notice how I tell stories differently. You start to feel the confidence.

A good tip I have for all of you is to stand up while you’re podcasting. I remember somebody told me, “Oh Pat, you got to stand up while you podcast”. I’m like, “Why would I do that? That would be like standing for an hour. My feet would hurt”. They’re like, “No. Try to get a mat on your feet if you don’t want them to hurt”. I said, “Okay, I’ll try it”.

I didn’t tell my audience that I did this. I didn’t tell my podcast listening audience that I stood up during this episode. However, I must have gotten a couple dozen messages from listeners saying, “Pat, I don’t know what it was about this episode but you seem to have a little bit more energy”. I knew it was because I stood up because when you stand up, you are in sort of ready mode. You have more of your lungs to fill up because you’re not being squished by your posture. That’s another great tip when you’re recording a podcast, is to try it standing up. You’ll see that there is a significant difference.

Darren: It makes such a massive difference. I accidentally listened to episode one of this podcast the other day. I was trying a new podcast then it came on and I was like, “It’s so slow.” I’m really sorry for you new listeners who went back to number one. Good content but gosh, it was so slow. You got to listen to it at double speed.

The other thing I’ve been doing recently is sit ups before I do a podcast. I’ll just pump out 10 sit ups or a couple of push ups. It’s the energy. You’ve got to get things moving in your body.

Pat: I wasn’t going to say this but I do 20 push ups before I record a show. It’s the same thing. I think even Michael Hyatt, who’s a good friend of mine and yours as well I believe, he showed on video once how he has like this mini trampoline that he jumps on before he goes live. It’s so strange but I follow everything Michael does and I believe him with everything he says because he’s just such an amazing leader.

Of course, I just started exercising before I record and you just have so much energy. You can really listen to it and can tell.

Darren: The other thing, force yourself to smile while you’re doing a podcast. It comes through in your voice when you’re happy. When you’re positive, when you’re optimistic, it really flows through and I often get to the end of an interview and I realize I’ve been smiling the whole time even when I’m listening to the other person.

Pat: Till your cheeks hurt?

Darren: Yeah, I get that all the time. Smile. Force yourself to smile and write it down on your screen. Smile.

Pat: I love that.

Darren: They can’t see you but they can hear you smiling.

Pat: A great tip. Those of you listening right now, you can probably see us smiling on the other end after the comment.

Darren: We’re not wearing pants or anything but we’re smiling.

Pat: That’s the other thing about podcasting. You could do it naked and nobody’s going to see you.

Darren: Okay. We’re getting into dirty areas.

Pat: These are all the high-end tips that you don’t hear anywhere else.

Darren: Alright. A couple more questions. I really want to focus on building the audience now because Linda in our Facebook group said do you have any suggestions on getting that audience bigger but also, do you have any kind of workflow or schedule for each episode in terms of sharing it and getting it out there?

Pat: Yeah, absolutely. I remember Darren, you showed this slide at the event recently where I think it was a woman who had a blog and she had shown you her workflow for everything that happened after she creates a blog post and it was like a list of 75 things or something like that. I don’t have a list of 75 things to share with you but what I would offer is pick the top five and really master those.

Those top five things after an episode comes out could be for example, emailing your list. That’s a completely underutilized thing, especially when it comes to podcasting but also blogging. You have this email list. They want to hear from you. They’ve chosen to hear from you. Share that information when it comes out.

But you know, pursuing social media and maybe taking that social media step a little bit further by creating a little quote card and there’s other tools out there now that’ll let you create a movie file that embeds your audio in it really quickly. And it also shows those waveforms as you’re speaking. It becomes a great tool. You can use on Instagram and on Facebook and on Twitter to have people listen to like a little clip of your show.

You can just offer from your previous episode maybe a really interesting insight or something that’s about to lead into maybe a top tip that you then kind of tease so that you get people to listen to it. It’s not just like, okay, social media or just take it another level and make it great to make it worthwhile so that instead of just doing a tiny good job on everything, do a great job on less things.

The other thing you should do would be to encourage within your shows people to share it. I would absolutely make sure to include a call to action within every single episode but don’t include the same call to action in every single episode. People who listen to podcasts are similar to Netflix viewers and that they binge listen. And so, when people are binge listening to your show, if they start to hear the same exact call to action every single time, they’re going to tune it out just like we’ve tuned out AdSense ads nowadays.

You want to mix it up. Change it around. Make it different. Don’t copy paste from previous episodes. Make it organic and switch it up. It could be subscribe to the show. It could be rate the show. It could be download this freebie. Those kinds of things. Amy Porterfield has done a great job of getting people to download stuff from her podcast.

That’s one of the bigger challenges and something that I think one of my strengths is, is yes, you can get a lot of listens and a lot of exposure on a podcast but getting people to take action is a little bit harder specifically when that action happens on a website because as you might know, people are listening on the go mostly. How do you get them to go and do stuff with you get on your email list. There’s a lot of strategies for that. Amy Porterfield does an amazing  job so if you want to any of her episodes, she does a fantastic job of helping you download something.

Typically, what she’ll do is she’ll create an amazing episode that’ll show you how to do something for example how to use the brand new Facebook power ads editor or something. She talks about Facebook ads quite a bit. She’ll say, “By the way, I know this is a lot of information. What I did was I put together a two paged PDF file that just is a checklist of all the things you need to do the next time you set up your ad. All you have to do is go to this website”. It’s usually her website/ and then just the number of her episode. She uses a WordPress plugin called PrettyLinks to do that.

“Go to that website to download that freebie. It’s completely free.” And of course, what happens? She gets their email. And then she might down the road, sell a course on Facebook power editor or something. This is the kind of rhythm that she has. Offering a ton of value, getting new exposure on a podcast, getting people on her email list by offering something a little bit more that would help people, actually something helpful, not just like transcript or something, and then finally, leading them into more value and then eventually a course offer of some kind.

Darren: That’s great. When she interviewed me, she actually asked me if she could use a couple of my blog post in a PDF form, which again linked back to my site as well. There’s benefit for her to do that so she created an opt-in out of my content. I think it’s just gold. Any way that you can get people across your site so that you can contact them later when they are in a state where they can click through I think is so important.

One of the things I’ve noticed a lot of top hand bloggers doing and you know, you mentioned NPR and some of those high-end shows that they use seasons really well. Many of the new bloggers I start out getting to this habit of feeling like they have to create a new post every week of the year. I’ve got a weekly show, 52 episodes a year. What are your thoughts on seasons and creating seasonal content? Do you think there’s some pros and cons of both approaches?

Pat: Let me tell you, something in my life right now that’s missing is Game of Thrones because Game of Thrones, the final season is not coming out until 2019 or something like that. It makes me want it so much more. It makes me know that as soon as that season comes out, I’m going to be boom! Watching every episode as soon as it comes out.

In a pro way, in a positive way, I think seasons allow during those breaks for people to just really, really crave and want more. Yes, people might be upset because you typically come out on a Tuesday and then for how many months or weeks, you don’t come out with one, well, I think there’s a positive aspect to that.  That is this Game of Thrones effect like I was talking about. But that can only happen if your content is that good. Of course, hopefully you’ll put in the right value to make it as such.

I think seasons are great as well because it allows us to give ourselves some breathing room so you don’t have to feel like you’re tied down or that if you stop your podcast, you’re a failure. No. Actually, here’s the interesting thing. Somebody in one of my mastermind groups, his name is Todd Tresidder from financialmentor.com. He teaches really high-level financial advice to his audience. He did a podcast a couple of years back and he only did I think, I don’t remember the exact number, but it was only 30 somewhat episodes I think.

He just stopped and he hasn’t produced a new podcast episode for two years, which in the grand scheme of things is like, “Oh well, that’s kind of sad. You didn’t keep it up. It’s kind of a failure”. But podcasting lives on. It is evergreen content. He is continually getting because iTunes is a search engine, because people find his podcast on his website, because people have linked to his show, because people have talked about it. It’s continually getting new clients. He’s continually getting new students because of the podcast that he created two years ago.

Although you might think that, “Oh well, seasons is not good because less opportunity to get in front of my audience and give them those new call to actions”. Although that might be true, podcasting content is evergreen, absolutely. Even more evergreen I think than a lot of videos especially videos that are up on Facebook, which aren’t really seen anymore after the next day so that’s great.

And then I like the idea of season because then, it can give you okay, I don’t have to do 52 in a row. I can do ten. You can even batch record this ten up front and then come out with a season. Some people go Netflix style and release all of them at the same time. Chris Ducker and I do that with our One Day Business Breakthrough Podcast. We have adapted the season thing because that’s all the time we have available to record. He’s in the Philippines. I’m in the US.

We record every few months and that’s the only time we have together to do that and so we come up with eight episodes. We record them in about three days and that becomes a season that’ll last for a few months for people and then we come out with the next season a few months later. Yes, seasons are great. I think When iOS 11 comes out very soon. They’re going to make it so much easier for podcasters to actually make seasons happen and actually note podcast is being a part of a different season or season one, season two, etc. I’m all for it. I love the idea.

Going consistent every week is a great thing too because people, when they listen to your show, they are putting you into their lives, into routine. My podcast comes out on Wednesday and one time, I was late. I came out with my episode on Thursday but before I came out with  my episode on Thursday, I started getting a barrage of emails from my audience saying, “Where is the episode? What happened? Are you okay?” People were swearing at me and being really mean but I also realized that wow, this means that people want the episode.

One person was like, “My commute today felt so lonely because I didn’t have your podcast with me today. Please make sure you come out with it on time next time”. It���s cool. That might sound like a negative but I think that’s a positive. It’s like wow, people have you in their lives. They want more of you. And so, it’s so cool.

Darren: It is a nice thing to hear those sorts of things. I often will get “Monday mornings is my time with Darren” or “I go with run with Darren on Mondays”.

Pat: I love when they say that. I should be the strongest person in the world because I’ve been in several gyms. I have been to almost every country in the world although I’ve only been to Lisbon in real life. Just the way they phrase that, right? It’s like you’re with me. You don’t say that about blogs. You don’t even really say that with video often.

“Man, Darren, you are with me on my commute today.” You can tell there’s something different about podcasting.

Darren: Yeah. I love the ones where people say my kids know you. My kids love your accent or that type of thing as well.

Pat: Yeah. That’s good. I keep my show swear free. We talked about editing earlier, I interviewed one person, I won’t mention his name but I spent three hours editing it because I had to remove every swear word. The next time he came to the show, he didn’t do any at all so maybe that gives you a clue who’s a two-time guest on SPI. But I mean kids listen because they’re in the car with mommy and daddy. That’s partly why I’m kind of a little sad about Gary Vaynerchuk because I love Gary’s stuff. I love how motivating he is but I can’t share him with my seven-year-old because then my seven-year-old will get sent to detention afterwards.

Yeah, anyway it’s your show though. Depending on who you want your audience to be, you can make it any show you want. I know a lot of people who do swear because that’s who they are on their podcast and that’s totally okay too.

Darren: Totally. A big shout out to all the kids listening today.

Pat: Yeah, love you guys.

Darren: Stats and metrics, I kind of want to wind this up but I’m really interested to hear how you work out whether a show was successful or not. Are you looking at download numbers, iTunes rankings, show note visitors, conversions in terms of how many people sign up for your email or does it change from episode to episode?

Pat: It is not about the numbers for me. In terms of success of a podcast it is, are you actually helping people on the other end? That to me is what defines success. Are you actually serving others? Whether it’s 100 people or 100,000 people per episode, I still think it’s important to realize that you are there helping people. And when you can help 100, those 100 people can share your show with another 100 people.

Let’s talk about that number really quick because a lot of people will say, “Oh, I only have 100 downloads per episode”. But then I say, “Okay well, let me invite you to a conference and let me put you in a room in front of 100 people. Now, how do you feel?” Of course, they’re like, “A little nervous now. I’m getting goosebumps thinking of that”. We’ll that’s how it is on your show.

That’s the kind of relationship that you could build and if you treat your 100 subscribers like they’re just a number, well of course they’re not sharing your show, of course not. No, you need to treat them like gold and give them the time and attention that you would a person who comes and flies over to you and gets a hotel and sees you speak at an event. And then you can grow it from there.

It’s insane when I think about this analogy in terms of the numbers that I have now. I’m walking into a stadium every single week in front of 100,000 people and I’m right there in the middle and everybody’s there ready and listening to me. It just partly scares the crap out of me because that would really scare the crap out of me in real life.

But it also inspires me. It’s like all these people, I could change their lives. I could help them and when I get the responses back, when I see people enjoying the show, that to me is what success is. The numbers, obviously, they’re important to look at to make sure that you’re continually growing, that you’re actually getting downloads just to make sure there’s no errors of course.

But email list, being added to is important too. I think it’s important to ask yourself what is the most important metric for you. I think it varies for every person. For me, I have a really interesting one and that is how many thank you responses could I get in my email inbox everyday. That is a sign to me that okay, I’m doing things right. It depends on the person.

Darren: Yeah. That 100 people who could be listening, you’re spending an hour with them. That’s 100 hours of conversation that you have emitted. That’s the other reminder I think to make. You’re having hundreds of thousands of hours of conversation with people and that’s amazing but 100 hours is pretty amazing too. I couldn’t schedule that much time with people during the week. A hundred  hours is great.

Tell me about an episode—you see what I did there?—which you would consider to be your most successful episode. Why was it successful in your eyes?

Pat: I’ll tell you a funny story. A lot of people know that I’m an adviser for a company called LeadPages. LeadPages is co founded by a man named Clay Collins. I invited Clay on the show to just talk about LeadPages and to share some insight with people to inspire them so I invited him on the show. We recorded and it was okay. Clay always has great things to say and amazing stories to share.

But afterwards, I think it was the next day, I messaged Clay and I told him, I knew he would appreciate this especially as an adviser to LeadPages because we obviously talked about that in the show, I replied back and I said, “Clay, a part of me feels like we could do better”. And he was like, “What do you mean? I thought we had a great interview. You said it was great”. I said, “Yeah, I know but I feel like we could take it another level up. I want people to be blown away by your story. Can we sit down for a half hour at some point?” He’s like a CEO of a multimillion-dollar company and he immediately said “Yes”. He’s like, “Yes. Let’s do it. Let’s take the approach of let’s make this the most downloaded episode ever”.

He and I spent a lot of time and then he spent time even offline, outlining a specific structure. This is episode 263. Typically, episodes of mine nowadays get downloaded over 100,000 times after six weeks. After the six-week period, 100,000 people are on average getting through this episode. After two weeks, this new episode that we recorded, you can see the structure, essentially, what we ended up talking about was how to go from four figures to five figures to six figures to seven figures essentially. Talking about this in terms of like stepping up in a ladder. Every rung of a ladder requires different mindset, a different set of comfort zone, getting out of that, etc. After two weeks, this episode had 350,000 downloads.

I didn’t do anything different to promote it. That’s the other thing. I didn’t do anything different than what I normally do. Because we paid attention to what the content was about, it had gone viral. It was just really cool because I was a little scared to ask Clay if we could do this again because I felt like we talked for an hour and a half and that was an hour and a half that we never ended up using. But we had to get through that and so, the point of the story is that it’s your show and you can make it as great as you want it to be and I was very thankful that Clay was very understanding with that.

Another very popular episode I have, which I’m already seeing, is it came out today actually, Darren, this is an interview with a woman named Cassidy. I know this is going to be a big one. She makes six figures a year helping people plant succulents. Succulents are a kind of plant. To share her story in this really obscure niche, nobody has ever heard of Cassidy. Most people who are listening to my podcast, they’ve never heard of this woman. But already, I’m getting emails and messages about just how inspiring this is because like I said earlier, I’m making somebody who follows SPI the hero of the story. I’m making it seem like what she has achieved is achievable.

Because of that, because of the obscure niche, because of the way she tells her story, and because it’s relatable, it’s getting an amazing, amazing response. Two different perspectives in terms of let’s make a great episode for me.

Darren: They’re great stories. It’s often those ones that just come out of left field that you don’t expect to go big, that just resonate with people on a deeper level and get shared around.

Pat, I could talk to you for hours and we’ve gone over what I thought we were going to talk about.

Pat: Sorry.

Darren: No. It’s gold. I really appreciate that you are responsible for starting this podcast. I went through your free podcast tutorials when I started. It took me about a month to get going and they were gold for me. But what was missing from those tutorials was the interaction with you and with other podcasters and so, when you released Power-Up Podcasting, your course, I think it was in July this year, I was so excited for your students because the thing that was missing for me that would’ve sped up the process and would’ve improved my podcast so much was the interaction with people who have been there and done it before and other people who were going through that experience right now. I was really excited when you launched Power-Up Podcasting.

I was so excited to hear that quite a few of our readers and our listeners went through the course. You mentioned Jason Skinner before. He’s one of our listeners of this and he is one of our attendees of our event. When I caught up with him at our event this year, he was absolutely raving about you and your course. I think you’ve actually got a case study from him on your sales page. You can go and listen to that. He’s got a podcast called Business Made Easy. Launched his podcast as a basis for that and so I was really excited to see you doing that.

You open that for a limited time for people and very generously and kindly opening it up for ProBlogger readers, I think fairly exclusively at the moment so we’re very excited about that. I just wonder if you can talk us through what it the course, who is it ideal for, and anything else you think our readers need to hear to make a call on whether it’s right for them.

Pat: Sure. If you’re still listening to this episode, it’s more than likely that you have this urge and knowledge that you should start a podcast. I wanted to start a podcast back in 2008 because of a podcast that I had listened to that have really changed my life. I knew that if I was able to grab onto this medium, I can potentially change other people’s lives too.

But like I said way earlier in the interview, I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t have the help. I didn’t have any structure. I just had to figure it out on my own. And because of that, I didn’t get it done until a year and a half later. And so, I feel like with the success of how with the podcast that I’ve created, I have five podcasts of my own, actually, and with just my teaching style, it’s sort of become my mission now to help people start their own podcast if they want to. That’s why I’m here.

It’s not just to help you set it up like you’re talking about, Darren, and it’s also not just to help you get found. That’s the other sort of super power that I have to offer people kind of like what we hinted on earlier. But it’s really like you said, that access. I think that’s one thing that’s unique about me and the courses that I produced, is you get a lot of access to me and also a community of other students.

I’ve already prepped the students who are in there now. There are several hundred of them who have gone through the course already, graduates, if you will. That a brand new set of students are going to come in and we always do sort of a nice welcome for all the new students to make them feel like they’re at home. They’re in the right place and they’re in the right community.

Also, to see some of the wins that some of the existing students have had so they can look up and see something they could strive for. In addition to that, this is what’s really unique. I actually was asked by a number of people who are colleagues of mine, why I do this and why I don’t do it at a higher price point. You could see the price point on the sales page but most of my colleagues were like, “Okay, what you offer on top of that should be at a higher price point”. But no because like when I took courses, when I first started, it was just a little bit of access to the course creator that really made the big difference between the course, is that it really did help me in the course and that did not.

Sometimes, you just need one or two questions answered and very quickly, to push you forward. That’s why when you join, you’re going to see that there’s these things called office hours. I will get on a live call in front of the entire group. Whoever wants to join, you have lifetime access to the course. You have lifetime access to the community and you also have lifetime access to all these office hours even for future enrolment periods. I will be there and I will answer every single question that comes across within an hour.

Multiple office hours happen every single month. For this next launch, there’s actually nine that are scheduled within three or four weeks after the launch period closes. This is only open for seven days. I like to work with the students that are coming in, in a group. It’s easier for me to answer questions. It’s easier for me to hold their hand through the process and that’s the number one thing people have said, “Pat, you give so much of yourself. I guarantee you, you will not find another course online about podcasting, let alone anything where you get this much access to people who are there to support you including the course instructor”.

I’m just really excited to welcome a new batch of students in there, especially from the ProBlogger community who I care so deeply for. Go in there and you’ll see other members who are a part of the ProBlogger community as well and then you get to meet a number of other people too. But really, this course takes you through the whole thing, from start to finish.

First of all, pre-launch, all the things you need to do before you launch your show. That’s stuff about what your show is going to be about. I help you understand what that’s going to be, what the title should be, getting your description down, making it optimized for iTunes SEO, all those kinds of things. Getting your artwork done, ordering your equipment, getting it sent to you, etc.

The next phase is then planning not your podcast in general but your podcast episodes. One of my big strengths is content creation and planning and so I put that into step two here in the pre launch phase. I show you who should you be interviewing and why, what should your content be about, how should it be structured, what should be your first episode should be about, etc. what call to actions should you create, all those kinds of things.

And then we get into a little bit more of the technical stuff, a lot of the scary stuff that was very scary to me when I first started. If any of you have seen ever any of my tutorial videos, you know that I give you the quickest and easiest way to learn these things. And so, I do the same thing with various versions of different kinds of software you can use, how to organize your files, recording tips to make it easier for you to do editing down the road and how to interview.

Then we get into a few more technical things and then I give you your launch execution plan. This is the big one that helps you get found not just to help you get your podcast up but help you get found on launch day. So what we were talking about earlier creating an event, I give you a walkthrough of all the things you need to do during launch week, during launch day, all those kinds of things.

And then later on, you’ll get into the post launch stuff where you can learn about how to read the stats, how to automate your show, how to repurpose stuff, how to get onto like the new and noteworthy in rankings and all those kinds of things.

Finally, there’s a lot of bonus material there too. For example, how to grow your community with a podcast, grow your email list, how to monetize. There’s a whole bonus section with five videos on monetization strategies and then also interviewing in person if you’re going to do that and then always access to the recordings of the office hours too.

It’s a complete package and I’m just really excited, like I said, to take care of anybody who is interested and wants the right way to do it in the most efficient and most quality way possible.

Darren: That’s great. It’s a very generous course in terms of what you cover and your own personal access. I think it’s really exciting for people who want that a little bit extra that I can’t get through the free tutorials that are around.

Head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46. We will send an email out to you if you’re on our list as well, just with that link and with those details. Check out the case studies on that page. I love the case study. They’re from Jason but also Sophie Walker who’s another Aussie. She’s got a podcast called Australian Birth Stories. Actually, earlier today, I was on iTunes and she is number one in her category. She’s in UN-noteworthy Australia and she’s I think number 40 in the whole of Australia for all topics and categories.

Pat: She’s crushing it.

Darren: She is doing amazing things and she’s got a podcast about stories of child birth. So, you’ve got Jason there who’s got a business podcast. You’ve got Sophie there who’s got a podcast on giving birth. It’s not just for one type of podcaster. There’s a great variety there from what I can see just in the case studies, let alone who’s in the course.

Pat: If you want to be the expert in your niche, it’s definitely a way to do it. It’ll also help you become an expert by interviewing other experts too through association. It’s just amazing platform and I wholeheartedly believe that I have the best course out there to help walk you through that process. It is the best thing I’ve ever created.

Darren: It sounds like a great investment. Again, it’s http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46. You’ve got a 100% money back guarantee, I see there as well so if you want to check it out.

Pat: Absolutely.

Darren: I do wholeheartedly recommend Pat to you. Thank you so much, Pat. I appreciate the time that you’ve generously given to our audience today. I look forward to hearing of the podcast that would be born as a result of the last hour and 20 minutes of podcast today.

Pat: Thank you, Darren, for the opportunity. Thank you for those of you who listened all the way through. I look forward to working with you.

Darren: Thanks man.

Wow, there’s a lot of good information in that one. I hope you’ve got as much value out of it as I did personally from talking to Pat today. Again, the show notes today are at http://ift.tt/2xrR3YO.

If you are interested in talking Pat’s course, I can highly recommend it to you. Head over to http://ift.tt/2xrWZ46. It’s only open for seven days though and if you are listening after the seven day window has closed, there will be an option there for you to sign up for a waitlist and be notified next time it goes live.

As I mentioned at the top of the show, Pat is also speaking at our Dallas event this year, Success Incubator. We’ve got a small group but a powerful group of speakers coming along to that event. There’ll be time for interacting with our speakers including Pat, Rachel Miller, who spoke in recent podcast and Kim Garst, who’s speaking about Facebook live.

I’ll be talking, doing the opening keynote on evolving your blog and business, so much more. We’ve got lots of masterminding opportunities too so head over to http://ift.tt/2osi0rw to get information on that or just head to today’s show notes where there’ll be links to all of these things.

Lastly, I just want to be clear that I am an affiliate for Pat’s course. However, as you can tell from this interview, I’m also a raving fan and a good friend and I would be promoting whether it had the affiliate link or not. Just be clear, I do make a commission if you buy that but that’s how we keep this show going for free.

Thanks for listening today. I do hope you’ve got value out of it. I can’t wait to hear your podcast. If you start one because of this event, I want you to share it with us. Head over to the Facebook group and let us know about that podcast. There’ll be an opportunity to do that in our weekly wins thread.

Thanks for listening. Chat with you next week in episode 212.

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