#and that discourse involves the main couple

[llitchilitchi]

sometimes I wish this site had a mute option

[corvies]

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butterfly divider: diviniyae — thank you so much for reading this far!!

[sensorydephrivation]

Amatonormative assumptions and the language of a hard launch: a rambly DnP essay thing

I have a lot of Discourse Thoughts about hard launching and all that, but there’s not much I can say that hasn’t already been said. This fandom is one that generally has significant representation on both sides of any major issue; any take you look for you can find someone genuinely believing. What I am interested in analyzing is how some people are insistent, whether or not they want it to happen or believe it will happen, that they haven’t Hard Launched, and others are equally insistent that they have. Because on the surface those should be completely contradictory takes, but a large amount of people believe each to be true.

I’ve seen posts making comparisons to PJ and Sophie, and I definitely think that’s a useful tool because it brings up the real question here: how do we speak about romantic and platonic relationships, and what underlying assumptions are at play when we use or don't use certain words?

Firstly, this issue is obviously mostly to entirely due to homophobia. Why do people assume PJ and Sophie are a couple just because they live together, even though they've never used the words? Because they're a man and a woman. Why couldn't DnP be publicly open about their relationship back in the day? Because they're gay. I'm not going to spend too much time on this point because it's obvious, but I feel like it's important to remember that Dan and Phil's relationship wasn't some Great Secret for no reason. They weren't no-homo-ing because of privacy or whatever, but because they weren't yet ready to face the immense challenges being publicly out sticks you with, especially in the early 2010s. If homophobia wasn't a thing, everything else I'm going to say in this post would still be true, but it would all be significantly less charged. Just remember that gay marriage wasn't legal in the UK when DnP met each other, and that 2000s pop culture overall was routinely, openly, virulently homophobic. Just keep that in mind. (Also, everything I talk about in this post refers to 2019 onwards, after they came out. I wasn't around for the no-homo era and can't speak on it. I'm also not going to be talking about the speculation around their relationship, because that's been talked about so much. It definitely is a factor in all of this, but you know that already)

Onto the main point of this post. The reason DnP haven't "hard launched" (that term itself is incredibly vague, but its popular meaning in this fandom seems to be explicit confirmation of a romantic relationship, which is how I'm using it here) while also having clearly done so is because their use of language does not line up with conventional expectations of how language around romantic and platonic relationships should be used.

The concept of "dating" as we think of it today is relatively recent, and language around it is even newer. The terms "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" only became prominent in the mid- to late- 20th century, and it took a while for them to gain the connotation (of almost always meaning a romantic relationship) that they have today. And yet people have still had romantic relationships for forever! How these things were described would depend on the society's norms around marriage and sex and often on the exact social dynamic of the couple. Today, we think we're better than all that and can find words for anything.

I'm no expert on what makes a relationship romantic vs platonic or even how to define those terms. I find it hard to define the concept of romance in a way that doesn't bring with it centuries of heteronormative amatonormative assumptions. And boy are there assumptions. (No, people who live together for life do not have to be romantically involved, that's a silly thing to believe.) When people see a relationship that lines up or does not line up with those assumptions, they expect it to have a clean, simple label. But the words we used for romantic relationships outside of marriage, due to how new they are, are completely not simple!

While these days they seem to be the most "unambiguous" terms to describe a romantic relationship, "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" are essentially euphemisms that can seem infantilizing and demeaning of the seriousness of a relationship. It's easy to see how they aren't for everyone, even if many people are fine using them for serious committed relationships. "Partner" is kind of ambiguous on purpose, thought like bf and gf, I think it's on its way to becoming a word with mainly romantic connotations. The term "significant other" is out of fashion these days, but just like bf, gf, and "partner," it's basically a euphemism that doesn't mean much in and of itself. We have no words to describe an unmarried romantic couple that aren't on some level unclear or unindicative of the actual nature of the relationship.

Dan and Phil have acknowledged that they were once in a romantic relationship, have made many many jokes about having sex with each other, and are committed life partners. On some level, you can take the combination of these things as a very clear confirmation of a current romantic relationship, which many do. Yes, this requires making a few assumptions, but they aren't the craziest assumptions in the world. In fact, as one can see from the PJ and Sophie example, they are assumptions that are often normal and expected to be made in social situations. So why do so many others not see it this way?

Well for one, we are a mostly queer community that understands the complexity of queer relationships and how these assumptions do not get applied equally. We see how these assumptions are often used against queer people to devalue their identities, especially those on the ace-aro spectrum and/or in queerplatonic relationships. We also are an extremely online community, familiar with the complicated layers of discourse around RPF and shipping, and hesitant to make assumptions in a way that could potentially damage relationships or invade someone's privacy.

But honestly? It's because DnP don't call themselves boyfriends. They don't explicitly frame their activities in romantic ways (e.g. call things dates). The terms they use and jokes they make, even in 2024, are not the sort of things we expect from the set of assumptions that go with a committed romantic relationship. (This is also where the discourse about whether or not they're open/poly comes from, but that's a topic for another day.)

The Date Night video stretches this to its absolute max. The game is full of cards about kissing and other things that fit cleanly into the set of romantic relationship assumptions, but they didn't use any of those cards. They only used things that were ambiguous, and tried to downplay the romantic implications as much as possible aside from the lampshading of it at the start of the video ("this is a great game to play with your best buddy as well" "phil says no homo" as well as the entire "ugh i can't believe they send us this" tone of the intro). The use of "partner" in this video is the clearest example of this. The game uses this word exclusively- after all, it's a standard, accepted, gender-neutral word for people in a romantic relationship. Phil confidently reads it off the card, with the "I don't care which set of assumptions this assigns us" attitude that's been prevalent over the past year and past few months especially. Dan avoids it half the time, and at the end of the video, seems to clearly mock the term, saying it in a silly voice and then comparing it to how stereotypical cowboys use the word. This stuck out to me; it made it very noticeable that they don't use that word at least in videos, and made me think about the connation of the word they do use-- "friend." That term, unlike any of the words I've mentioned so far, implies literally nothing. "Friends" can be people with a barely positive relationship or people with an incredibly meaningful relationship they center their life around. With no other qualifiers, it also implies that the people in question don't have a romantic relationship (are "just friends"), or even (because of amatonormativity) that their relationship is not especially deep or meaningful.

Dan and Phil have defined their relationship in quite a few ways-- or rather, Dan has, in BIG and in his interviews for WAD. These quotes circulate on here constantly as people discuss the meaning of them. I'm not really interested in talking about those as they've already been talked to death. I do think it's worth noting that we only get these things from Dan-- the one time Phil has ever spoken on his "current dating life" it was just to say "I don't want to talk about that, the door is closed." Obviously some of this is because the interviewers were pushy, but also I'm sure Dan enjoys his elaborate poetic metaphors enough to not be able to shut up about them haha. (Very unrelated but I wonder if this will come up if they end up doing interviews for TIT?) The thing is, these definitions show a deep, meaningful, complex, committed relationship. They include directly romantic terms like "husbands," "soul mates," and "normal gay relationship." You would think being willing to call someone your husband, even with a million other words around it, would mean you wouldn't have a problem calling them your partner, right? Yet these words do not reflect the language they use when speaking about each other in videos!

There are times when they say "friend" "buddy" or "mate" in a clearly humorous, ironic way, and seem aware that it isn't a term that makes people think of a committed, long term relationship. Other times, they use the word as if it is a fully accurate descriptor of their relationship-- in the glue story, Dan jokes about being ashamed to be seen as "the friend of the glue guy," and in How Phil Nearly Died, he quotes himself telling the hospital staff he is looking for "my friend." I use the hospital stories as examples because they are high-stakes (or seemingly high-stakes in the case of the glue story) situations and examples of how other people in their real lives perceive them. The way they choose to tell these stories to the internet is one in which the fact that a random hospital worker would likely interact differently with Dan if he was Phil's friendly roommate as opposed to his life partner doesn't matter. In other words: if they actually do call each other "friends" irl around strangers, those strangers probably have a very different impression of their relationship than we do. Their consistency in describing themselves doing so just means that they want to consistently use the term "friends" in their videos, not that they actually do that in real life. But to a viewer who is unsure about their relationship status, the fact that they are clearly life partners, no matter platonic or romantic, but in all situations opt for a word that does not imply that seems to be confirmation that their relationship is not clearly romantic, or at least that they don't want to refer to it as such.

If I have to draw a conclusion from all this, it's that DnP consider their relationship very complex and unusual (ymmv on if it is, lol) and have had to deal with a ridiculous level of scrutiny about it nonetheless. Again, Phil has almost never spoken on this, but Dan clearly dislikes any descriptor that carries with it a sense of assumptions about the nature of the relationship, hence why he uses like fifty contradicting ones or strange metaphors instead. "Friend" carries with it no assumptions. You can be "friends" and be in a romantic relationship-- plenty of people say "I married my best friend." But our society considers romantic relationships to be more meaningful and important than platonic ones. People assume that if you are in a romantic relationship, you would want to describe your relationship exclusively using terms that carry that set of assumptions, because that is the most important part about it. I honestly think Dan is being quite subversive in refusing to do so.

I have no idea if or when this will ever change, but I hope I've given enough context for those who are convinced they've already hard launched to understand why others are still waiting, and for those who don't think they have to understand why the issue is more complicated than it seems. This topic has fascinated me ever since I first started watching them, and I hope this post can help people reach a bit more of a understanding, rather than inciting more discourse.

[evil-youth-messrs]

when heterosexual couples are implied to be in romantic relationship/have feelings for each other in media, people will take that as a stated fact that they are indeed involved.

(for lack of better examples, atla and rogue one. both have scenes where the main couple is in a dark place and their faces are close. from my experience people tend to interpret those moments as first kisses and a confirmation of the couple's involvement.)

but when it's a same-sex couple, they could be all over each other, saying the most romantic soulmatey kinda stuff and people will still not acknowledge them as gay, unless there is a (unquestionable) kiss and/or a direct statement that they are dating.

(here I will inevitably mention yuuri on ice. that shit was gay as hell they literally got engaged and still there's discourse whether they kissed in that one scene or not. also from what I heard saltburn has immense gay vibes and some people deny it??)

the double standards man, I'm tired

[beautifulpersonpeach]

you said

I'll admit, these days I'm a bit disconnected from the fandom and don't keep up with jikook and/or BTS as much as I used to,

pardon my impertinence but what happened? me myself i don't feel safe in the fandom anymore but i still stay for jikook. what made you disconnected from bts and the fandom when you used to be one of the most prolific army writers here? i know your work got busy but is that the only thing? forgive my impertinence again but you don't even look excited about jikook some times. i've sent you many asks about ays and jikook that you haven't answered. you don't have to answer but i miss your perspectives and if there's a reason you don't feel connected to army or bts or jikook anymore i hope you can share it with us.

*

Ask 2:

I miss you around here BPP. My asks about BTS and jikook have gone unanswered for what feels like months and while I know your work has gotten very busy I still selfishly want you back here with us being active.

I hope you're well and haven't forgotten about us your tumblr fam 😭

***

I'm still here guys. But I'll take this ask to rant and ramble and hopefully answer all related questions about the future of BPP.

(Anon in ask 2, I'm sorry to you and everyone who still frequents this blog because, well...)

Idk what to say except that I can't fake it. I can't fake enthusiasm when I feel none. Is this so shocking? I mean, y'all have to be a bit fatigued as well, no?

I've been in the fandom for something like 10 years, and lately nothing here has changed except for the worse - the predictable kind - the sort I've been talking about since I opened this blog five years ago.

Just this past week, I logged onto Twitter and saw --

Discourse about how Yoongi limping meant he has liver disease.

People talking about how a mentally ill (untreated but employed) diet solo wrote a fan fiction book about Jungkook and is selling it for US$25 + tax.

Discourse about Jungkook's painted nails - some people reaching past Timbuktu to explain why his nail colours couldn't possibly have anything to do with jikook, while another part of the fandom talking about nothing else except that his nail colours are proof jikook are a couple.

Taekookers claiming a 'k-source' has proof taekook fucked 69 in a hot tub in Gangnam as soon as they completed military service and left the BigHit building last month.

Chartmys already drawing up goals for the PTD live album and pegging it against solo album achievements.

Taesoothe and her crew of shooters oscillating between dragging other groups/fandoms and defending Bang Sihyuk as more allegations come out.

Excessive levels of fangirling bordering on outright obsessive worship of any of the members...

Among the myriad of solo filth, conspiracies, discourse, and overall braindead chatter that's normal for k-pop fandoms. And not just in the usual insane pockets of ARMY twitter, but in (previously) somewhat 'normal' ARMY spaces as well...

The discourse is tired and so predictable you can set your watch to it. By this point, we know all the players, the teams, and the tactics. None of this 'discourse' is new and I've written my fair share of posts getting into the weeds with everyone else. I'm not saying this to claim I'm better than anyone else, just that before I didn't mind digging into this discourse because a lot of people were new to k-pop/BTS/jikook and genuinely didn't really understand how things work here.

Also, BTS was releasing good music, actually good music, and that made spending time in this madhouse tolerable to tell you the truth. The last time I liked anything released by BTS was Mona Lisa, which wasn't too long ago tbf, but the last time I loved anything released was RPWP. Over a year ago. That's the fuel that's kept me coming here, kept me logging into Tumblr, Twitter, and k-forums... and I'm overdue for a refueling.

When I say the main reason I stanned BTS and remain involved with all this is the music, I really do mean it. The members are good people, I care for jikook, Joon, Hobi, Jin, Tae, and Yoongi, but the main reason I give them my money, attention, and invest in the fandom and in their company is the music they make. If that starts going to shit, nobody could pay me enough to continue giving a fuck. I'll likely liquidate my investment in HYBE and cash out.

Respectfully.

All this to say, I'm still here... not jumping ship yet.

I see your asks and I try to answer a few (lately I've been trying to be more consistent out of respect for the followers that still somehow come to this cobwebbed patch of the internet), but I also don't feel interested (or fueled) enough to actively engage the way I used to. Not even the most explicit jikookery in AYS2 will change how I feel if there's no decent music on the back of it. I guess this settles the question on if I'm really a jikooker after all lmao.

Anyway, I'm here still kinda answering asks and patiently holding out until the guys release new music, maybe later this year and definitely next year. Cautiously watching and hoping that Scooter's fingerprint is on as few songs as possible because at this point, I've seen what he can deliver and want none of it.

*

In the meantime, to answer the asks about AYS2 the fact is I'm not all that excited and this should be unsurprising for older followers of my blog given what I've said before about BTS auxiliary content like SOOP or, more recently, AYS. I like jikook so I'll probably still watch it and might even love it, but until it comes out I have nothing to say about it. I have no hopes or expectations or wishlists for AYS because it's not the sort of content that appeals to me anyway. I'd feel a bit differently if it was a GCF, but editorially and functionally, it's not. So there's that.

[rat-rosemary]

anon who wants a summary:

the timeline:

dream published a meme which used the r slur to insult tommyinnit stans. this sparked outrage (because it's a slur).

dream defended himself by explaining he was called slurs by nicholas cantu and half the internet and people said that was justified because cantu was autistic and pan, and dream himself is autistic. he as a result thought he was allowed to say the r slur. dream also deleted the tweet a few hours later.

tubbo made a stream where he analyzed dream's response and brought up his own reasons for disliking dream. tubbo's (and most of dsmp twitter's) take is that the r slur was used as an insult in this case and therefore there is no reclaiming it.*

dream responded to tubbo's stream. however, his focus was mostly on addressing the context of why he made his tweet (what he feels was a constant harassment by Tommy and his friends who've been implying terrible things, such as Dream being a pedophile, for months) and talking about some of the problems tubbo brought up. he showed a number of evidence to back some of his main points, like this DM where he asks Tommy to stop making inappropriate jokes about him:

tubbo then responded to dream's stream. tubbo's main issue with it seems that Dream justified context, but didn't really go into the tweet itself.

Tommy also published a 5 mn video accusing Dream of various negative things, which basically reiterated most of tubbo's grievances. (none of them are criminal offenses or the like)

issues Tommy and Tubbo brought up:

feeling like Dream implied they owed their careers to them. There is no evidence of this. Dream has talked about a couple miscommunication/joke situations and brought up multiple times that he felt he was just shining a spotlight on people that would've made it anyways. Tubbo repeatedly said he "just doesn't believe this" and Tommy feels that in fact "[Tommy] made the DSMP."

Dream contacting Tommy's mom in 2023 following drama at the time. Tommy felt like there was a betrayal of trust and Dream apologized. I'll attach the DM, you can decide for yourself how you feel about it.

A situation where in the DSMP discord someone brought up skephalo porn art and Tubbo, a minor at the time, was there. Dream brought up in his stream that he was not there. Tubbo in his second stream said "that's fair." I think this is resolved..?

Dream's circle of friends being misogynistic. There is no evidence from this from Tommy and Tubbo, apart from vibes basically (which could still mean there's a problem! but atm it seems to be just vibes).

Tubbo vaguely accused Dream and his friend George of queerbaiting? Dream didn't address this but has multiple times said they weren't dating.

I can't think of anything else but I might've missed something! And obviously I think this is all correct but it might not be because I am a #flawed human being.

I tried keeping this as short, concise, and as unbiased as I could but obviously I rambled. A LOT more was said by everybody involved, but I tried my best :(

*this point is particularly interesting, because I've seen enough discourse on both Tumblr and Twitter to feel like it's a complicated issue that people haven't clearly cut one way or another. Making this point because most of dsmp twitter agreeing with something does not necessarily make them right (but you can ofc decided by yourself).

Thank you so much Star!!!

I'm going to once again plead for everyone to watch the original streams so they have full context, but I know they're long and not everyone can or wants to do it, so I am willing to further explain and give more context to anything you don't quite understand or have doubts about :]

[thedreadvampy]

I do not understand subcultural politics discourse and at this point I don't know how much is differences in the national scenes and how much is that we just have very different ideas of what these scenes are.

cause like. Punk I get. Punk is not always left wing (there has always been a Nazi punk problem) but punk IS always inherently and actively political as a definitional factor. Punk is foundationally anarchist, counter-hierarchical, and centred on anger and community cohesion. If you approach punk as apolitical or centrist you are Doing It Wrong. Nazis and right libertarians have always made up a small but vocal chunk of the community, and that's a problem punk has to address in its own ways (ideally with steel toecaps). Punk is definitionally political and has a couple of extremely foundational sets of political beliefs.

Or like, hip-hop. More complicated case cause there's even more corporate cooption involved in shaping the modern genre but hip-hop has a foundational political position. Hip-hop is focused on Black pride and power, and on addressing African-American trauma and injustice, and so it's historically working-class, anti-racist and anti-cop. It means something politically as a genre.

But some stuff people say just Does Not Jam with my experience of subculture. Like people KEEP saying 'you can't be a right-wing goth, goth is radically left wing' and all I'm saying is a) we have spoken to some VERY different elder goths bc as much as I was lucky enough to grow up in the scene, going to the goth weekends, etc, my god did some of those 60 year olds vote Tory or BNP with their whole chest. and b) as far as I'm aware the main thing that goth stands for politically is countercultural provocation and a kind of nihilistic disengagement. like Siouxie Sioux habitually used swastikas and Nazi paraphernalia to demonstrate distance from her parent's generation. a lot of the foundational Goth musicians are either right-wing or prefer to keep their politics private because they consider them separate.

like most of the goths I know are left-leaning, because there are foundational philosophical beliefs attached to goth culture and a lot of those, like fluidity of expression, resistance to established power, and celebrating marginalisation, appeal to a lot of lefties. But frankly I've known a lot of goths who are reactionary right-wingers or full on Nazis because, well, other precepts of goth culture can include stuff like nihilistic individualism and glorification of death. Plus the Nazi iconography thing, plus the widespread racism in the community. and those weren't like 'i found goth on TikTok' goths, these are like 'committed to the lifestyle since 1979' goths.

Like goth is not particularly a RIGHT-WING movement, but I have never experienced it as an explicitly political musical/subcultural movement at all? Certainly not the way that punk or reggae or outlaw country or something is.

(and speaking of reggae. I was watching Anthony Fantano and FD Signifier talking about this whole idea and FD said something as a 'isn't this a silly example' about a white nationalist looking for white nationalist reggae. and they were both laughing about what a silly idea that was

and I'm sitting there like...But that's literally exactly what happened with ska in the UK? like ska is obviously an afrocaribbean genre made by and for Black communities and uhhhh by the late 60s in Britain ska was the white nationalist sound. like skinheads love ska and in particular there are a bunch of neonazi/white nationalist ska acts. not all skinheads are far right but if skinheads have a dominant political identity it is probably more far right than far left.

and that did raise the question of differences in national scenes. like I know that behind the Iron Curtain a lot of punks were using UK and American flags the way Western punks were using Soviet iconography, and Caribbean music has a very different cultural association in the UK than in the US, and British rap has a different political outlook than American rap.

and so maybe American goth is a lot more political than British goth? but I kind of think of goth as a European subculture tbh like I think goth I think England and Germany, and the European goth music and goth scenes I've been in are......not explicitly political?)

[olderthannetfic]

I hate to revive DNI discourse when it just ended on this blog but I often don’t think it’s as deep as people make it out to be and there’s a lot of, for lack of a better word, ~valid~ reasons someone may have a DNI. Like there’s absolutely contexts of “Kink Blogs DNI” disclaimers having an anti, swerf, etc undertone but sometimes I get it — for example I follow a couple of disability activists who post A LOT about incontinence, needing a caregiver, ETC who have stuff like “ABDL/DDLG/Devotee Blogs DNI.” Oftentimes that is not an indicator on their moral stance of those kinks, but rather them just being like “hey this is an activism-based journal where I post about incredibly personal things in regards to my own life, and while anyone has the right to read or reblog from me, if you’re clearly getting off to my medical needs or even if I get the vague impression you are, you WILL be blocked.”

Obviously that is an incredibly extreme and personal example, but I don’t think having a DNI boundary in your bio is ALWAYS a morality/discourse stance. On a much lighter note, I’m pretty active on Kpop Twitter, and there’s a lot of “RPF DNI” accounts there, and I think that’s more of a “I just want to post about my favorite band without shippers quote retweeting/replying to make it about their ship, and if you do so, I’ll block you. They’ve made public statements against these ships or about their real relationships and I am uncomfortable with people trying to dispute that.”

Oh yes there’s absolutely antis who hate RPF communities and all they stand for. But there’s also people who just straight up don’t want that on their account.

And like. As someone casually involved with RPF (i gossip about potential relationships with close friends and will reblog joke posts about it and will read it, but I’m not a writer for it and I’m definitely not someone who actually tries to speculate just how heavy the “fiction” part of an RPF ship might be), whether or not I choose to follow a person with such DNI depends on context. I keep my RPF ships/opinions off my main account, and even if I DO see a post that I would otherwise interpret as possibly shippy, I just won’t bring it up on said person’s posts, you know?

Damn this made me remember I have a DNI myself on one my accounts, 🤣 I have a minors DNI on one of my sideblogs. But I know I can’t prevent minors from seeing my posts or lying about their age or reblogging to a private sideblog or doing anything else that would go unnoticed. But once I do notice you interacting, if you’re clearly underage I’ll block you, just cuz I don’t feel comfortable with minors following my smutty fanart account even if I know minors look at smutty fanart, as someone who did look at smutty fanart as a minor. . .🎶Maybe I’m the problem it’s me. 🎶

--

No.

It's a stupid phrasing and no amount of validity in the criteria will make it less stupid.

No one here thinks they're always deep and meaningful. What we all say every time this comes up is that it's bad to conflate "I will block you if..." and "It is your job to research my boundaries ahead of time".

I'm not interested in people crying about how they like using an inaccurate term and everyone is supposed to understand what they mean. In practice, many people do mean that it's other people's job to enforce their boundaries for them. Validating this garbage terminology just encourages them.

It's a stupid, shitty term and we should move away from it.

[fixaidea]

So here's the thing: I don't usually engage with or care about top/bottom discourse EXCEPT when I think it's funny, sooo...

Let's do some Science and examine Pingxie in a Very Serious Manner.

To do this, first let's take a look at some data gathered from all the danmei novels and shows I know (relevant for calibration you know, since they have actual canon top/bottom dynamics.)

SVSSS

Shen Qingqiu - Since his cause of death wasn't starvation we can assume - well, at least hope - that he can make instant noodles, if nothing else, but he will absolutely avoid having to cook if he can help it.

Luo Binghe - As the Protagonist he of course has to be The Bestest at everything (...except sex, apparently) and it's mentioned that both Bingge and Bingmei use their culinary skills to woo the people they want to sleep with. He's also the top, even though everyone involved would be better off if he wasn't.

MDZS

Lan Wangji - Becomes a pretty decent cook, as per the extras. Prefers to top.

Wei Wuxian - It's not like he's incompetent, he doesn't burn or undercook the food, it's just that his taste is so extreme that his dishes are basically inedible to anyone else.

TGCF

Hua Cheng - No special talent for cooking, but at least he's not actively dangerous. There's no on-page sex scene in the novel, but it's made obvious that he tops.

Xie Lian - Biohazard. Weapons-grade culinary anti-talent. Gastronomy's answer to Vogon poetry.

Golden Stage

Ulike in most of the other novels on the list, food doesn't really have much symbolic meaning and not much is said about either Fu Shen's or Yan Xiaohan's cooking skills, exept for a brief mention of Fu Shen pickling eggs to pass the time. This is a rare couple that canonically switches.

Guardian

Zhao Yunlan - This man considers instant noodles cooked with coffee an okay way to surprise a boyfriend. He really wouldn't mind topping, which he keeps lamenting throughout the book, but he's paired with Shen Wei who might just have the strongest set preference out of everyone on this list.

Shen Wei - Likes to dote on Zhao Yunlan by cooking for him and is genuinely very good at it.

Word of Honor (mind, I have only watched the show here)

Zhou Zishou - Can keep himself alive, but left to his own devices would probably make due with charred-and-yet-undercooked fish or something.

Wen Kexing - A competent cook. While obviously not detailed in the drama I looked it up (or asked someone, I can't remember) and he's the top here.

Erha

Chu Wanning - Perfected exactly one (1) dish, is rather... unfortunate otherwise. You could not pay this man to top.

Mo Ran - Excellent cook. Actually worked in a kitchen at one point in his life, giving and receiving food is basically his main love-language.

Now that we have examined these canon couples and have drawn all the relevant conclusions, let's apply what we learned to our non-danmei, might-as-well-be-canon-but-isn't ship.

Wu Xie - Can cook just fine both in the novel and the drama-verse even if it doesn't come up too often. In the first season he cooks up a pretty decent feast for his friends and in the Yucun books he helps come up with the dishes they would serve in their restaurant.

Zhang Qiling - The entire Thing of this poor sod as a character is that he knows how to survive but not how to live. Taking the time to prepare nice meals or cook anything beyond basic sustenance just... doesn't fit that picture.

So.

I rest my case.

[darcytaylor]

The Importance of Staying Grounded in Speculative Conversations

It’s that time again, where I’m writing what might be a thought-provoking post? Inspirational? Overbearing? I know most of you are probably tired of these by now, but hey, maybe there’s something worth considering in what I’m about to say. Or maybe not. Who’s to say?

So why am I writing this? Is it to convince you to agree with me? No, you don’t have to. Is it to share my personal take on what's going on? Nah, honestly, I don’t think my opinion matters that much. Do I have thoughts on what’s happening? Sure, but it’s not my place to tell anyone how to think or what to believe. But maybe I can offer a perspective on speculation and how people engage with it:

I’ve been reflecting on how people engage with speculation (shocking, I know! haha), especially in fandoms and even in other public spaces. People have this undeniable passion for what they believe to be true, and while that passion can be understandable - and even admirable at times - it can go a little overboard.

When I say, “I don’t actually know what’s going on because I don’t know the people involved,” I tend to get a couple of reactions: Some people see it the same way, some people get defensive, some people try to convince me to see things their way. But here’s the truth: I don’t know the people involved - and neither do you. None of us know the full story or what’s going on behind the scenes.

A lot of people will say, “But look at the evidence! It’s so obvious!” And here’s where I disagree: Without firsthand knowledge, we’re essentially trying to put together a puzzle with most of the pieces missing. And drawing conclusions from that? It’s risky at best - and misleading at worst.

What really gets to me, though, is the need some people have to stir the pot (and I guess this is the main reason I make posts like this). It seems like some people want to rile others up, making it appear like they know more or that their perspective is the only one that matters. Maybe it’s a way to feel validated or in control, but in the end, it doesn’t help anyone. It just adds noise and fuels unnecessary drama, which - can be harmful!!

When people get defensive about their views, I think I could be because they’re seeking reassurance. They want to feel like they’ve figured it out. But the truth is: none of us have all the answers. We’re all just outsiders looking in.

For me, staying grounded means accepting that I don’t have the full picture - and that’s okay. It means being open to the possibility that there could be many explanations for a situation and choosing not to rush to conclusions. This isn’t about being overly cautious or passive - it’s about showing respect. It’s about letting people live their lives without outsiders treating their guesses like hard facts.

I think if more people took this approach, fandom spaces and public discourse would be a lot less toxic. It became so toxic for me that at one point I had to step away, because of he vile anonymous asks I was getting. It’s entirely possible to have thoughtful, respectful conversations without falling into the “I’m right, and you’re wrong” trap. A little humility, and a lot more recognition that things are often more complicated than they seem, could really make a difference.

At the end of the day, none of us have all the answers -and that’s fine. What’s not fine is turning speculation into fact or stirring up drama when it isn’t necessary. So, can we be more mindful, respectful, and take a step back from the impulse to turn every guess into something?

If you see a take that isn't damaging, you don’t need to respond just because you don’t agree with it. You can let people have their own perspectives without degrading others. That said, I have no respect for speculation when it comes to matters that are too personal or just downright mean, especially when people try to act like it isn’t. Some things shouldn't be speculated on, and treating them as public fodder isn’t just disrespectful - it’s harmful.

Life’s complicated enough without us making it harder than it already is.

[izzyshandz]

I swear if i see one more mf say izzy has been 'redeemed' or needed a 'redemption arc' im literally going to scream into my pillow until i lose my voice.

redeem is such a black and white way of looking at his entire character and dismisses everything hes gone through and yall (izzy haters and others) are just so fucking snob nosed and ignorant to sit there and think hes a villain because of how he acted. theyre fucking pirates. theyre not perfect, none of them are. eds a villain, stedes a villain, if youre doing it like that. ed has killed so many people, stede literally left his wife and kids and also had a hand in killing people; it may be easier for them to change because of the perspective the show gives them and they had love but izzy did not. everyone hated him, ed, his own crew, stedes crew.

normalizing peoples reactions to things as something other than villainy and heroism is so god damn important in a show that's trying to accurately involve our perspectives in this day and age. its a tale as old as time, making someone 'completely in the wrong' because their perspective isnt the one you aligned with as much.

like the rest of the crew izzy had his own bad things hes done, he didnt need this 'redemption' everyones blabbering on about. he needed to be fucking heard, to be seen, and acknowledged-- not thrown aside and abandoned because of a whim. you all can ride up blackbeards ass because oh hes so hot, hes so pretty omg wow; but that wont ever change the fact his character is a fucked up person... youre allowed to love him anyways, why not izzy? we didnt see blackbeard before screen but how hes mentioned it shows he was a shit awful person, the only reason no one cares is because on hes fuckin gay for stede or whatever so the main characters get a free ride. ( i agree they all get a free ride, im just tired of this izzy isolation man )

why does he need to be redeemed in your eyes? just because youve seen what hes done? he was literally a product of his environment in season one he was a product of blackbeard's leadership. only with the loyalty and solidarity of the crew did he really begin to find himself, thats fucking hard to do that late in life. instead of calling it some bullshit black and white redemption arc, lets just celebrate izzy being himself and being fucking loved for once in his god damn life.

hes also way more fucking mature and put together than people give him credit for. love you izzy.

edit: thank you all for the reblogs and insights in every single one, i read them i promise i do. im just so mf heartbroken we have to tag things as discourse when its really just about people not being compassionate. (as a couple people have pointed out) i will said id reblog and comment on every single tag but this is my side </3 EVERYONE PLEASE READ THE REBLOGGED TAGS TOO / / theyre so real ! ive also opened up that ask box thingy i havent been on tumblr in yrs and have 0 clue how any of that works if anyone wants my perspective on anything izzy related. *or otherwise ofmd related

[identitty-dickruption]

For the cripplepunk ask game: 2, 6, 13 (you can just answer the one you like best if this is too many for one post)

thanks for asking :)

2. Is there some ableist interaction you're still bitter over?

I talk about this wayy too much but people feel way too comfortable walking up to me and asking what’s wrong with me. I do not know what universe they live in but come on. I’m a stranger why do you need to know my medical history? but even worse. there have been a couple times when I’ve been out with my partner, and people have gone up to my partner. while I’m right there. and asked *them* what’s wrong with *me* as if I’m not there. absolutely fucked up behaviour. and they always have such a tone of care like they’re just worried about me or some shit. my brother you are a complete stranger go awayyy

6. Do you or did you know any other physically disabled people IRL? If yes how does it differ from people here online?

yes! when I got diagnosed with autism I made it my business to get involved with as many disabled communities as possible. at the time I didn’t really consider my chronic illnesses to be ‘disabilities’ so it really was the autism diagnosis that pushed me over the edge in that respect. anyway, the disability group at my uni was where I ended up and where I met my partner + many of my closest friends. one of my besties has many of the same physical disabilities as me and it’s become a real point of bonding for us on many an occasion

the main way it’s different from online is that we don’t have to be talking back and forth to be able to hang out. there’s a lot to be said for sitting and bitching for a while and then having a sigh together. they’re also better equipped to give me advice that works for me because they’re there for the ins and outs of my daily life. it’s nice and I really do appreciate it

13. Is there an aspect of disability or disability rights you don't find a lot of support or discussion on but you'd like to?

‘disability rights’ is an interesting phrase to me. I think a lot about how disability justice has been funnelled through a lot of (US-dominated) rights-based discourses. I’m not sure the notion of disability rights is quite enough for the kind of political project I think is necessary for disability justice. I think there needs to be more of a discussion about what it looks like to be in community as a group of people with different needs + bodies + minds to each other and that kind of discussion cannot be centred in the individualistic framework of ‘rights’. this might sound wankerish or semantic but I think it’s important to pivot towards disabled interdependence and disabled citizenship, as opposed to disabled rights being held up as an end point. but that’s a broader complaint against liberalism innit

this has ended up pretty long, my apologies! thanks again for the questions :)

[dana-chan-the-control-brain]

Wish there were more people like you who were open to exploring dynamics between two characters in an alternate universe where they are not bound by familial relationship/title or whatever it's called. I get it tsams/tlaes have a lot of family things going on and a-specs things but eh what do I expect from a fandom that started the hate on sunxmoon shippers? I'll continue shipping sunxmoon, eclipsexsun, solarxmoon and solarxearth(thanks to that one anon from before for introducing me to this) not as family related, and the fandom can suck it

Honestly.

Like one person told me "Moon and Solar are brothers" once.

And?..

They're not.

That's like saying Ink and Dream or something from the Undertale Au verse are brothers cause they're alternate realities of eachother and people ship them all the time???

"but they have the same face"

So???

So does Lolbit and Funtime Foxy. They're a couple in SBshow verse.

Mickey and Minnie mouse have the same face and no one raises stink about the most classic example of same face syndrome.

They're robots and I think physical appearance matters very little to them in the grand scheme of things. But that might just be my demisexual ass talking.

On a side note, I know the VA for Earth, Aka: Kat has been very "ship and let ship" with the fandom. And I think that's why in the Solar therapy session, she clarified that she knows Solar isn't biologically related. Technically none of them are, she just wants to consider him part of the family.

I remember awhile back the fandom was so hostile to people who saw Lunar as an adult and would draw him in adult situations. (Like taxes/half joking you know what I mean)

And I believe that was the last big drama the actors like Davis was directly involved in before he took a step back from that and told the fandom to sort it out themselves. And I really don't blame him. There are people who are crazy and just feel entitled to things.

And in more recent episodes, Lunar has stated more frequently that he is an adult animatronic of sound mind who can make his own decisions, so that they can put that issue to bed with the discourse.

(I personally think that gen1/2 Lunar was very much a kid psychology and through the course of the course of the show, and due to his experiences and truama he grows up in two years and he's a young adult now. This reflects in every time he has a model change or appearance.)

See this is what I mean when I say they are robots. Robots can grow up from 13 to 24 (approximately) in the span of two years. Robots can change their mind about family dynamics and say "you know what I think that i don't feel like a cousin, as what I feel for Moon is more intense then familiar bonds. So I change my mind." And this is allowed. This is allowed. Like I would not think this way about human characters.

People in the transformers fandom are really familiar with this concept as well. At least the few people I talk to from an outsider perspective. The transformers robots change their relationships in canon to eachother all the time from what I hear.

And yes. I know tsams is focused on themes of family and found family and togetherness. Like I'm not media illiterate. I know what one of the themes are. For some reason, people think I don't know tsams is about family.

Like bruh.

This whole show took two years for them to build the family and support network they all have with eachother when before the show was a toxic family relationship with Sun and Moon only. And I think it's beautiful how it evolved and how many characters there are and how big the family is now!

It's great!

And I do separate in my brain what's going on in canon and what's going on in my shipping brain.

This doesn't mean I can have fun on the side. With silly speculations and silly headcanons.

Giggling to myself and twirling my hair about the "what ifs" and aus

Staying out of the main tags and talking to my own friends with my own company.

While also analyzing the show and leaving tsams lots of long lovely YouTube comments about what the show is actually about.

Also. Consider this.

Since the multiverse is canon in tsams, in definition, by their own rules, there is a universe where everything in tsams is the same, except your ship is canon.

Evil!Sun even said that Sun and Moon being brothers is more rare across dimensions then we initially assumed.

So they're either enemies, strangers, they killed eachother, or something else.

They only are brothers after their canon event of separating and agreeing to work together. So there are some universes where that never happened.

Meaning most likely that our Moon's portal runs on a central finite curve.

So take that as you will.

[elainsgirl]

So I’m a feysand who can honestly say I’m pretty indifferent to Feyre’s sisters and the ship wars involving them- it’s because I don’t like how they’ve been handled or find their characters consistent.

but because I feel so detached from Elain, Nesta, their love lives, it makes it especially crazy to me to see that people genuinely think Az and Elain aren’t next. I really feel if you have emotional distance, it’s been painfully in your face that the next book is Elain’s, Nesta isn’t getting another and her book was very conclusive and set up to be a standalone, and Elain will split POV with Az.

don’t get me wrong, I see elriels make comments that show their biases (preferences) in theorizing or talking about canon scenes, but a little of that is natural when you are connected to a specific couple or character, their importance is naturally going to be elevated for you.

what I can’t wrap my head around is how many people apparently deluded themselves into thinking Elain’s book isn’t next and she won’t share it with Az because Nesta and her friend group is the new center of acotar.

Gwyn couldn’t be more obviously created just to have Nesta have a friend with a blank slate for her; she may do stuff in the future but if anything, she felt like Alis levels of importance to me. Especially when you remember that sjm specifically said she gave Nesta her friends because even though Elain and Feyre are cool sisters and Feyre is “the best sister” to her, Nesta needed something away from her baggage.

Hello anon 🫶

You know I agree, when you’re detached from the shipwars you can view it all more objectively as you have no particular feelings that influence your opinions. And looking at it purely objectively, it is very clearly elriel.

like you, I also didn’t care too much for the shipwars. I had no strong feelings towards any ship, sure I had a favourite (not elriel lmfao) but I wasn’t biased. I wasn’t actively engaging in the fandom when reading the acotar series and I no idea about any bonuses. I think I finished the og series in December/beginning of Jan and then in Feb acosf was released so the series flowed from og to new and elriel was just in your face obvious. I wasn’t even paying attention to them amd still clocked on they were endgame. I was reading lots of different types of romance books and elriel was set up as a typical romantic relationship would be. It was shocking to see there was an actual discourse going on.

acosf concluded Nestas main story and arc - by interviews Mass confirms its one book per couple so another Nesta book is off the table as even when promoting HOFAS Mass didnt say anything about the next book being differently formatted. You’ve had 2/3 sisters stories so it obviously makes sense the last sister will have the next book, especially when you take into consideration information about acotar 6, it has every chance of being a prequel which increases the possibility of elain = acotar 5. The bonus confirmed Az will have the next pov in the next book and its simple logic and math from there.

biases are natural but it starts becoming a problem when you let it fully influence what you’re taking away from canon.

its funnier when you realise…acosf is a standalone and Nesta’s friend group wasn’t part of the OG series therefore cannot be the centre of attention in the next books as they’re all meant to be standalones from each other. The spinoffs were always going to be about characters from the og series - didnt Sjm literally say the OG series had clues for the spinoffs? Yet the “next” fmc wasn’t even introduced. And they’ve deluded themselves to believe Az is solely next all because of his bonus…yet two bonuses were released. Feysands exists and is just as valid to use as evidence/foreshadowing on who the next book will be about. Which character appears in that bonus? Elain. So if she’s appearing in Feysands AND azriels bonus…clearly, clearly she will be in the next boo. As the main character.

Nesta needed a fresh start hence had to meet new characters, Gwyn being one of them, no one is saying Gwyn can’t play a role in later books but its simple.

If Gwyn was *that* important such as being an FMC before characters like Mor and Elain, she would have been introduced even if it was for a second, in the OG serie: and if not there then in acofas. Do they rlly think Sjm would introduce such an important character in a spinoff? Be frl. That doesn’t sound like Mass and whats the cherry on top? The fact acosf is a standalone and Gwyn only appears in that book meaning she cannot be the next fmc as to understand a gwynriel book, you’d *have* to read acosf which defeats the literal purpose of it being a standalone.

[stuffytiffy]

Introduction Post!!

💜 my name is Tiffany but you can call me TIFFY on here!! <3 I'm suuuuuper shy heheh but I made this basically to explore agere!! I'll follow back any mlp or agere blogs!!

💜 (I'd prefer sfw though please!! I regress for trauma reasons and would I think not be okay interacting with people who do it for sexual reasons specifically!! no offense!! so um blogs that aren't always sfw but are also specifically trauma regressors would be okay!! just check my dni/trigger tag thingy!! to make sure!! <3)

💜 I relate a whole lot to Twilight Sparkle, I'm always reading!! even if sometimes what I'm reading is maybe not a huge novel!! I really love to read books aimed at younger age groups when I'm regressed <3 I also love coloring books!! and even though I am really REALLY shy a lot of the time heheh, I love my friends!! a lot!!

💜 some other important stuff about me might be that I am the co-host of a system!! so I'd love to have other system mutuals on here too!! the other host is REALLLYYY serious all the time heheh so um yeah it's just me on here!! and um this blog is just for me at the moment but I guess I might add tags later for some of the other littles and stuff!!

💜 our body is 22 years old, I age with the body mostly but also ageslide between 8 and 19 when I regress? that's my best guess for the moment because this is really new to me!! (I'm usually around the higher end!! it's rare for me to regress really REALLY little but it's happened a couple of times so just to be safe!!)

💜 I am also white, bisexual (questioning if I might be a lesbian actually!!) and both physically and mentally disabled!! I have autism and adhd, plus some medical issues going on that I'm still figuring out!!

I'll come back and add more of my interests and about me stuff soon!!

✨credits!! <3

icon by @acid-fangs header by @twilyss stamp by @kodaswrld twilight divider by @animatedglittergraphics-n-more crystal divider by @sister-lucifer

💜 DNI / BYF / TRIGGER TAGS UNDER THE READ MORE!! 💜

✨IF YOU FOLLOW, PLEASE LIKE THIS POST AFTER YOU'VE READ IT!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!✨

DNI/BYF/TRIGGER TAGS

💜 first of all, I don't really have an opinion on discourse stuff most of the time because it really stresses me out to get involved with that stuff!! that's usually the other host who deals with stuff like that!! but just to be clear, we are a traumagenic system!! and we'd like to connect with other traumagenic systems!! I don't usually have very much in common with people who are not in that box, sorry!! you can interact with me I guess but we probably won't be friends!! no offense!!

💜 for dni/byf, I don't have a whole loooooot but please if your blog has a lot A LOT of the following content, do not interact with me!! if you are a mlp or agere blog that properly tags stuff, it's totally fine though!! <3

✨DNI

explicit NSFW (if it's the main part of your blog, DNI)

discourse of any kind (if it's a main part of your blog, DNI!! sorry but it just stresses me out!! so I'd probably end up unfollowing you anyway!! no offense!!)

✨NEED TAGGED

alcoholism (a mention of alcohol here or there is okay!! but if you're posting while intoxicated or discussing alcohol addiction, please PLEASE tag it!!)

religion (again, mentions are okay!! symbols related to religion are okay!! but um any in depth discussion about religion, religious trauma, etc. I really need tagged!! I have religious trauma specifically around Catholicism so I would extra EXTRA appreciate that being tagged!! thank you!!)

✨LIKE TAGGED

Steven Un/verse discourse (I don't want to see this ever, but it isn't as serious as the other stuff, I just find it super annoying!!)

Twi/ight G/immer (no offense to anyone who enjoys this ship!! you are totally valid, I just would rather not see it!!)

[tlaquetzqui]

with regards to shipping discourse, I do find it sort of crazy how much people care about it, and I say that as someone who's primary involvement in fan spaces is writing ship fanfic.

I mean, I write GIJoe fanfic (a fact that I do find embarassing, although, not enough to not tell people about it), and if all of a sudden people who called themselves GI Joe fans were arguing about ships I'd be so confused. It is a series with so little romance, and such a large focus on team work, that even my ship fanfics are still very much ensemble pieces with barely any "romance." it's more just characters admitting (to themselves) they have special feelings but that there's no real time to deal with it yet.

It's one thing with romance and drama stories where the interpersonal relationships is the draw of the story, but even then, a good story is going to have more to it than the shipping. I'm in a Jane Austen circle on Tumblr and so you'd think that it would be all about the romance, but often times the discussions are about the historical context or the familiar and platonic relationships (so, for instance, how it's interesting that Mr Darcy is seen as "intimidating" but in a rather sexless way. No one worries that he might hurt or take advantage of a girl, but only that he might be cutting with his words. How does this compare with other romantic figures or antagonists in this story?) Perhaps Jane Austen is a bad example she is such an influential author and there is a lot to talk about with her books.

Basically, to me, if a series' only draw is the shipping... that's just says that it's not a very good thing to start out with. Like, the fact that I dropped Legend of Korra because my ship broke up speaks to the fact the show had nothing else going for me. So it is kind of insulting if shipping is all people can talk about. Reducing every relationship in a series to a romantic one is so annoying it me. IDK.

It's sort of funny because part of what I liked about Arcane was the fact that the main motivations for each character often had more to do with familial love or striving for ideals. and second season all people want to do is talk about shipping... how the mighty have fallen.

Yeah I’m a bit hyperbolically harsh to shippers, but in its place—silly things like the “who would win” debates—shipping’s fine. I’m not entirely immune to “these two characters would make a cute couple” myself. But the ubiquity and in-your-face nature of it in certain fandom spaces (like Tumblr) is incredibly off-putting and obnoxious.