#and the powers of the silmaril also

[in-the-glow-of-a-silmaril]

I had completely forgotten that the Silmaril is cursed by the Lord of Nogrod. He curses it as he dies, slain by Beren reclaiming the jewel (and by extension the Nauglamír that it is now attached to).

Also. Wait a minute. On the next page we have "the wise have said" that the silmaril may have "hastened" the deaths of Lúthien and Beren, bc the "flame of the beauty of Lúthien as she wore it was too bright for mortal lands." Was this related to the curse? Unknown. Was it related to Fëanor? The use of the word flame is interesting to me. Fëanor also did not last long in mortal lands. Either way, the Silmaril once again is speculated to have a negative effect on the one who holds it.

[aureentuluva70]

asdfghjk im sorry but i am just dying of laughter at this

Edit: Feanor in the published silmarillion did not die fighting a Balrog, he died fighting MULTIPLE Balrogs.

[anipologist]

Still more than a bit amused that of our three favorite musically inclined Finwëans (those that cannot go anywhere without music (not even rescue missions and desperate quests)) Finrod is the one that gets the most fandom flack for it. He didn’t apparently bring his harp with him on a hunting trip or he would have no need of the mannish one. And there is nothing textual to suggest that he was lugging one around under his orc disguise on the way to Angband.

But Fingon…Fingon brings three things with him on his little jaunt to save Maedhros, a bow, his sword/knife and a flipping harp.

I play the harp so I do honestly understand the urge to just whip one out and start singing a song of defiance, or sneak up on random campers and start playing under the stars. (Honestly, still haven't ruled that idea out...sadly I am not tall, golden-haired or immortal so I am unlikely to be mistaken for a Vala or an elven-king). I am not sure if it's a harpist/musician thing or if I am just weird.

But really Fingon, you lugged a harp across the Helcaraxë (and Finrod gets dragged for having gemstones in his pockets) and when you set off on your quest to literal hell you grab your harp too?

[laurelins-light]

There’s something about the Silmaril’s being thrown/vanishing into Water, Fire, and Air and then the three rings of power being associated with Water, Fire and Air it just feels so bittersweet

[irisseireth]

Also I'm very worried that Eärien isn't going to make it to the end of the show. I dont like the direction her character arc is taking.

[queerofthedagger]

One thing that's just been keeping me up for a week straight is that, while we tend to associate Elrond as the one incredibly skilled in healing - rightfully so - there is also that "little" titbit of how "the hands of a King [of Gondor] are the hands of a healer," which, infamously, is the line of Elrond's brother.

Which leaves just enough room to speculate that they may have both had a talent in healing, and in turn begs the question of just which part of their ancestry they got it from.

And the options there are all wild in their own right - on the one hand, there is Elwing's side which would make some sense due to Lúthien/Melian, but then in at least one version of the tale at the end of the Fall of Gondolin, it's said that Elwing and her people believed that the 'power of healing in their camp' came from the Silmaril if I remember correctly. Which implies that it's not a skill their line has been known to have an extraordinary talent in.

The alternative option is, of course, Eärendil. Now that means it comes either from Tuor, or it means Idril, which means through Turgon/the House of Fingolfin. And if I think about that too much I might just go insane because oh man the implications.

But also all the ancestral musings aside, just the idea that the line of Gondor's Kings is carrying forth Elros' own talent in healing as this permanent relic, reminder, and tangible leftover for Elrond, of something they shared and learned together? just. man

[thesummerestsolstice]

There were quite a few people who absolutely refused to believe Elrond and Elros were who they claimed to be when they first came to Gil-Galad's camp. This led to the rise of several extremely questionable theories on who they really were, from the more mundane– they're just two half-elves the Feanorians found somewhere– to the more... esoteric, like that Maglor had "sung them into existence" to fool the armies of Valinor into letting them steal the Silmarils.

The most popular theory was that Elrond and Elros were actually the children of Maglor and Daeron of Doriath, and that they'd been kept secret for... some reason– look I never said the conspiracy theories made sense. E&E look a lot like Luthien (Luthien and Daeron are siblings with pretty similar features) and a bit like Fingolfin (who looks like Feanor who looks like Maglor), so it's not totally implausible. It would also explain how E&E had Maia powers without being Elwing's kids. And that was just enough information for it to become a completely unkillable rumor. Most of it dies down after E&E show some clearly human traits, like getting sick, but there are still die-hard believers out there. Some genealogies from the early Third Age list Elrond as Daeron and Maglor's child.

Elrond, who's been confronted about his "real parents" several times, is very over it. Gil-Galad thinks it's extremely funny.

[annoyinglandmagazine]

‘more dangerous and less wise’ I’m sorry WHAT!? Is Tolkien seriously trying to tell us that the freaking Sindar are the feral ones out of all the Elven races? After the entire First Age? As for more dangerous, Galadriel is still here. You know, Feanor 2.0 the only one that actually survived. Using the Elven metric for being batshit insane yes, Mirkwood is weird, but not swearing blood oaths, setting everything on fire, murdering everyone in sight, telling the gods to go fuck themselves, challenging gods to one on one combat insane.

The line of Oropher isn’t even Thingol levels of mental. They’ve never even touched a silmaril or a ring of power! They’re downright sensible by first age standards! They’re arrogant sure, they have low self preservation instincts and seem pretty xenophobic (dwarf stuff). Also depending on your point of view there might be colonist undertones. All of which is just toned down versions of the First Age Sindar. They probably have developed weird customs from living in the murder forest so long and being pretty isolated but there’s nothing to indicate they’re all that bad. I mean they’re still alive and they’re holding on to their kings at a relatively steady rate.

I absolutely agree with takes going around that this is some sort of deliberate protection technique they have to ward off trespassers and that Thranduil is sitting there in his cave coming up with rumours to spread about all the messed up things they do to people. Because in the book they seem kind of chill? And this becomes a million times more funny to me if he bases the rumours off stuff he heard about from Elrond.

As in ‘Yeah we totally eat giant spider meat, that’s definitely a thing we do,’ and everyone’s reacting as horrified and scared or not falling for it while Elrond’s believing every word and just looks sympathetic, ‘Aww you guys have food shortages? I hear you, supplies were pretty shit during all that destruction of an entire continent in the War of Wrath. You know if you wanted more options I wouldn’t recommend raw orc meat before you build up a tolerance but I can defo show you how to butcher them properly!’ Thranduil just staring back at him like ‘Fuck you. I was trying to make up some story to scare children at night with, you guys actually did this shit? How hard is it to come up with something you fucking Noldor haven’t done already?!’

And also: Thranduil proceeds to take out a notepad, ‘Ok so tell me again about what the kinslayers did to interrogate those prisoners?’ And Elrond replies, ‘Oh, that wasn’t Maglor and Maedhros, that was a story about Gil Galad’s army in the War of Wrath.’ Thranduil ‘I’m sorry WHAT the actual fuck.’ Elrond nodding understandingly ‘Too much for the Third Age?’ Thranduil rapidly taking notes ‘No it’s perfect keep it coming.’

[velvet4510]

The parallels between Beren & Lúthien and Frodo & Sam have been written about and spoken of plenty of times. But I’ve not yet found a full list, point by point, of each parallel. That I shall remedy.

These are listed in the chronological order of Beren & Lúthien’s story. The chronologies of the stories do not match up exactly, since the order of parallel events differs between each story. (For instance, 11 and 12 occur before 6–9 in the hobbits’ story, but after 6–9 in the Man and Elf’s story.)

Lúthien dances for joy in the woods, and Beren watches. / Sam dances for joy to warm in the sun naked on the Barrow-downs, and Frodo watches.

Beren is tasked to embark upon a perilous quest that involves keeping the Silmaril away from Morgoth and Sauron; the Silmaril is coveted by the sons of Fëanor. / Frodo is tasked to embark upon a perilous quest that involves keeping the Ring away from Sauron; the Ring is coveted by Gollum.

Beren is assigned this quest by a grey-cloaked figure, Thingol. / Frodo is assigned this quest by a grey-cloaked figure, Gandalf.

By completing the quest, Beren will win Lúthien’s hand and a chance for them to live in peace together. / By completing the quest, Frodo will ensure Sam’s safety and a peaceful land in which they can live.

Beren encounters an Elf, Finrod, who befriended his father, Barahir. / Frodo encounters an Elf, Elrond, who befriended his father figure, Bilbo.

Beren is imprisoned in Sauron’s dungeons. / Frodo is imprisoned in Sauron’s tower.

Lúthien uses her cloak to shield herself and scare off her enemies in Sauron’s fortress. / Sam uses the Ring’s power to shield himself and scare off his enemies in Sauron’s fortress.

Lúthien sings a song within Sauron’s fortress and locates Beren when he sings in response, believing her voice is no more than a dream. / Sam sings a song within Sauron’s fortress and locates Frodo when he sings in response, believing Sam’s voice is no more than a dream.

Upon finding Beren in the dungeon, Lúthien believes for a moment that he is dead and darkness falls upon her in her grief. / Upon finding Frodo stung by Shelob, Sam believes for a moment that he is dead and darkness falls upon him in his grief.

Beren and Lúthien are aided by Huan. / Frodo and Sam are aided by the Fellowship.

Beren and Lúthien are attacked by the sons of Fëanor, who seek to prevent them from completing their quest. / Frodo and Sam are attacked by the Nazgûl and by Gollum, all of whom seek to prevent them from completing their quest.

Beren is wounded in his upper body (chest) by Curufin’s arrow, but is healed by a leaf found by Huan, with help from Lúthien. / Frodo is wounded in his upper body (shoulder) by the Witch-king’s knife, but is healed by athelas found by Aragorn, with help from Sam.

Beren tries to sneak away to complete his quest on his own for the sake of Lúthien’s safety, but Lúthien catches up to him and vows to go with him, regardless of what may happen to them, and Beren gives up on talking her out of it, realizing they share a fate. / Frodo tries to sneak away to complete his quest on his own for the sake of Sam’s safety, but Sam catches up to him and vows to go with him, regardless of what may happen to them, and Frodo gives up on talking him out of it, realizing they are meant to go together.

Beren and Lúthien disguise themselves as Draugluin and Thuringwethil to infiltrate Morgoth’s land. / Frodo and Sam disguise themselves as Orcs to infiltrate Sauron’s land.

Lúthien uses her divine power to get herself and Beren past Carcharoth. / Sam uses the power of Eärendil’s light in his hand to get himself and Frodo past the Two Watchers.

Beren uses the power of the Silmaril to defy and intimidate Carcharoth. / Frodo uses Eärendil’s light, taken from the light of that very Silmaril, to defy and intimidate Shelob; he also uses the power of the Ring to defy amd intimidate Gollum.

Carcharoth bites off Beren’s hand with the Silmaril still clasped in it, an act which drives him into further madness and gives Beren the title “Beren the One-Handed.” / Gollum bites off Frodo’s finger with the Ring still on it, an act which drives him into further madness and gives Frodo the title “Frodo of the Nine Fingers.”

Gwaihir and Landroval rescue Beren and Lúthien from Angband. / Gwaihir and Landroval rescue Frodo and Sam from Mount Doom.

Beren fails to literally bring back the Silmaril due to the loss of his hand, but his quest is still completed indirectly, as his hand indeed holds the jewel. / Frodo fails to literally destroy the Ring due to its indomitable will that leads to the loss of his finger, but his quest is still completed indirectly, as his actions bring the Ring to its inevitable doom.

Carcharoth’s poison almost kills Beren in the aftermath, but he is healed by Huan. / Shelob’s poison almost kills Frodo in the aftermath, but he is healed by Aragorn.

Beren and Lúthien dwell peacefully for a time in the greenery outside Doriath, and don’t want to leave, but eventually return to Lúthien’s home so that she can check on the wellbeing of her father Thingol, as Beren does not want to keep her away from her fellow Elves. / Frodo and Sam dwell peacefully for a time in the greenery of Ithilien and later in Minas Tirith, and don’t want to leave, but eventually return home so that Sam can check on the wellbeing of his father, the Gaffer, as Frodo does not want to keep Sam away from their fellow Hobbits.

Thingol despairs back home in Doriath, worrying about his daughter Lúthien. / The Gaffer despairs back home in the Shire, worrying about his son Sam.

When they return from their Quest, Beren and Lúthien find new danger has come to Doriath via Carcharoth, and lead a defense of Doriath against him. / When they return from their Quest, Frodo and Sam find new danger has come to the Shire via the Ruffians, and lead a defense of the Shire against them.

Beren’s wounds force him to be separated from Lúthien as he dies, but he waits in the Halls of Mandos for her to join him. / Frodo’s wounds force him to be separated from Sam as he leaves Middle-earth, but he waits in Aman for Sam to join him.

The Valar pity Beren and Lúthien’s suffering and offer Lúthien a choice to be with Beren again (a mortal life). / The Valar pity Frodo and Sam’s suffering and offer Sam a choice to be with Frodo again (passage into the West).

Lúthien chooses to forsake the fate of her own kind, immortality in Valinor, to spend the rest of her lifetime with Beren in the green isle of Tol Galen. / Sam chooses to forsake the fate of his own kind, rest in the tilled earth of the Shire, to spend the rest of his lifetime with Frodo on the island of Tol Eressëa.

Lúthien’s son Dior is known as “the beautiful.” / Sam’s daughter Elanor is known as “the Fair” for her Elvish-like beauty.

No man ever saw Beren or Lúthien again, and nobody in Middle-earth knows when or where exactly they finally died. / No hobbit in the Shire ever saw Frodo or Sam again, and nobody in Middle-earth knows when or where exactly they finally died.

Tolkien, my dear friend and idol, you sure knew how to write a love story to end all love stories. And you did it twice. Whether you intended to do it twice or not, you did.

Bravo, good sir. Bravo.

[nelyos-right-hand]

One thing I often hear when talked about kidnap fam is that while the "and love grew between them"-thing is obviously canon, that people don't think it is as happy and harmonic as often portrayed, or even that they actually like the fluffy version more, but logically have to admit that it isn't very realistic.

But I think that's exactly the point. No, the likelihood of E&E having a healthy relationship with Mae&Mags after, well, everything is pretty low, but how likely was Beren and Luthien actually getting that Silmaril?

Tolkien loved Beren and Luthien, and not just because it was kind of the only story in the Silm with a happy ending, but also because of the odds of that happy ending. If I didn't know better, a couple infiltrating the enemy's fortress, beating him, getting away and doing all of that with nothing but the "power of love" or whatever would sound like a fanfiction to me. Maybe a good written one, but definitely a fanfiction.

But Tolkien loved this story because somehow it all worked out and that makes it incredibly beautiful.

And wouldn't it be maybe unrealistic but beautiful, if after E&E lost everything and then got KIDNAPPED, they somehow ended up having a happy childhood anyway? If they found love and happiness, by the people who did this to them no less?

Or if those bitter, broken kinslayers, after everything they've done, found some kind of happiness again, however temporary, and, for a short period of time, had the chance to relearn the meaning of mercy, innocence and forgiveness? They certainly didn't deserve it, but didn't E&E deserve a happy childhood?

I think that it makes kidnap fam even better if you think that there's just no way that ten year old children would be able to heal from that trauma and come to love those battle hardened warriors, and it almost makes me cry to think about how little Elrond and Elros didn't forget what happened, but chose to forgive it, even though kids this age shouldn't have nearly the wisdom necessary to do that.

And it becomes even more tragic if you think about how it all falls apart in the end, about how they all knew from the very beginning that this little family of theirs could never last.

So, I think that this version sounds a lot more like Tolkien then an unstable, disfunctional family with 50% love, 25% hate and 25% toxic behavior. I'm not saying that E&E didn't sometimes have conflicted feelings towards Mae&Mags or that the brothers weren't struggling with their sanity, but give this people some happiness guys.

[riding-with-the-wild-hunt]

for real who is haunting the narrative more than míriel. the tengwar and the silmarils and a whole dynasty created because fëanor was maybe the only elf in aman to understand impermanence and loss enough to fear them. the noldorin crown passed on because finwë chose to spare his son another abandonment and died for it. gondolin and nargothrond and nevrast and lindon and hithlum established as realms and the silmaril coming back to valinor because indis had children with a widower. just something about míriel simultaneously being present everywhere in the story and also watching and recording it from outside unnoticed and without the power to ever intervene

[superloves4]

This was supposed to have a snippier introduction but in the spirit of not ruining the fun for those that enjoy it, here’s a harmless shitposting before season 2 proves me wrong: The Ring of Powers show exists in an universe where the kinslayings never happened

Hear me out, Galadriel’s introduction implies the elves came to Beleriand in boats, that could only happen if either Fëanor returned the boats or the Teleri lended the boats

Why the second and not Fefe returning the boats after kinslaying? Because eight-pointed stars everywhere!!! Because Galadriel doesn’t hesitate to threaten blood for boats, even full of despair Galadriel would not bear with turning into Fëanor!!! Thus the only possible explanation is Teleri lended the boats and the first kinslaying never happened

That certainly helps, but what about the Lùthien situation? What about the oath?

Well, my explanation is that The Oath never happened, there was An oath, but it was a generic “let’s go take the baddies” and Finrod swore it too (not Galadriel tho because it’s still an oath from Fefe and she’ll not have that)

And Lùthien? Well, in the tree statue of Lùthien she has a cloak with an eight pointed star, in the version where Celegorm is king in Nargothrond he let’s Lùthien leave and gives her back her cloak but here he also gives her a broach so it may close easily

And Dior? And Elwing, after all she has to have her whole fall into water turn into bird thing?

I mean, Thingol is getting murked by dwarves either way and Dior is very easy prey so *shrugs*

As for Elwing, there is a version of events where it’s Morgoth attacking Sirion and Maedhros and Maglor are actually there helping! So kidnap fam but it’s wholesome from the beginning

After all, Celebrimbor saying (to Elrond!!!) that the Silmarils required sacrifice only gets a turn around rather than a very big “what the fuck man??”

So with no oath, no attack to Eonwe’s camp

This explains why there is a lost silmaril as opposed to the well known fire, air, water situation (what happened to the third? Maybe it’s with the Valar, maybe it’s with M&M in Valinor, maybe Eonwe is bad at holding silmarils and it fell in the ocean on the way back)

Shouldn’t there be more people alive then?

Nope, the fun is that with more people fighting we could just say more people died! The battle Celeborn disappears at could be the Nirnaeth!

Conclusion: No kinslaying in ROP

[middle-earth-mythopoeia]

The latest bad take on Amazon’s Rings of Power is, “Rings of Power doesn’t contradict Tolkien’s canon, because there is no such thing as canon.”

I’ve seen more and more Rings of Power fans claiming that the show doesn’t go against canon because there are different versions of canon anyway, between The Silmarillion and the History of Middle-earth, and The Silmarillion wasn’t published by Tolkien, but by his son. They’re basically saying, “Canon? What canon?” And I just... No. The idea that “the show doesn’t go against canon because canon is so wishy-washy anyway” is SUCH a false argument to make.

Yes, Christopher Tolkien edited and published The Silmarillion after his father’s death. And yes, there are multiple conflicting versions of stories in The Silmarillion and HoMe. But that doesn’t mean there’s no such thing as being faithful to Tolkien’s stories. A lot of the choices Amazon has made in the show are completely wrong and would be wrong in any Tolkien adaptation.

The characterizations are totally off base. For heaven’s sake, hobbits wouldn’t abandon their own people on a journey. Elrond wouldn’t swear an oath like that. And the Númenoreans don’t hate Elves because Elves are stealing their jobs, they envy them for their immortality—it’s kind of the main theme of the Akallabêth. And, in the show, Galadriel—whose people were literally victims of the First Kinslaying—tries to steal a boat??? I mean, hello??????? Amazon hasn’t even tried to stay faithful Tolkien’s characterizations. Yes, adaptations usually take liberties with the source material, but holy shit.

And the very framing of fundamental issues is completely wrong. In the show, going to Valinor is portrayed as some sort of reward for valor in battle, which is not how it works in Tolkien’s books. The show also compressed the entire Second Age into a much shorter span of time, which is absurd and completely goes against what Tolkien wrote. The show glosses over the First Kinslaying, of course (I know it’s because they don’t have the rights, but it’s still their fault for mangling the story and themes), which makes it seem like the return of the Noldor to Middle-earth was some sort of righteous war, and it wasn’t. The list goes on and on.

And they can’t get basic details right, either. Obviously, the short-haired Elves are one example of this; so is the emblem that resembles a Fëanorian star on Galadriel’s armor. And it’s astounding how poorly the showrunners seem to understand the nuances of Tolkien’s names and constructed languages.

Tolkien was a linguist, and the languages he invented were extremely important to him and to his stories. So what did Amazon do? They completely ignored the internal logic of Tolkien’s secondary world. In The Silmarillion, Ar-Pharazôn banned Quenya in Númenor—but Amazon’s version of the character names his son a Quenya name. In the show, characters call Galadriel “Galadriel” even in Valinor, despite it being a Sindarin name given to her by her husband, Celeborn. It is anachronistic and inaccurate to refer to her by that name before Celeborn gives it to her, especially during the Years of the Trees when she didn’t even speak Sindarin. The show also gave one of the hobbits a Dwarven name, Nori, for no apparent reason. There are many more examples like this.

Amazon has also invented some things out of thin air that have no basis in Tolkien’s works at all. I understand that they had to invent original characters and storylines for this show. Inventing original characters could, in theory, work alongside canon instead of contradicting it, even though those characters aren’t found in Tolkien’s books. But mithril containing the light of a silmaril? What? And what’s with that weird bit where Amazon Elrond and Amazon Celebrimbor are talking about the silmarils and they say Morgoth cried when he looked at them and almost repented??? What the hell??? It makes no sense.

This is by no means an exhaustive list. The people who created this show have many many, many choices that completely fly in the face of Tolkien’s characterizations, worldbuilding, languages, and themes. (I haven’t watched Rings of Power and I don’t intend to, but this information is widely available if you read reviews and episode synopses.)

The show is also poorly written and ugly to look at, but that’s beside the point. The point of this post is just to say that no, just because there are multiple, conflicting versions of canon in The Silmarillion and HoMe doesn’t mean Amazon gets free reign to trample all over Tolkien’s stories. There is such a thing as making a faithful Tolkien adaptation, and this isn’t it.

[thebitchkingofangmar]

sth else that I ping-pong in my brain like the DVD logo on an idle screen, is how Fëanor and Sauron hold enough similarities for it to make whatever they individually going on more interesting than each character already is on himself.

It's not even a comparison of "Creator of the Silmarils" vs. "Creator of the One Ring", but more a thing from the perspective of excellence and their senses of self-righteousness?

They're both described at some point as The Best of their kind, they're both associated with fire as (1) an element of renewal and as an infinite resource (fire is the only element where if you take from the original source of the fire, it does not diminish); (2) as an element with power of creation but also its power of destruction.

They're both close to Aulë. They both have a sense of being Wronged by what expected of them/their society and ostracise themselves from said society by rebelling and turning against it, while self-proclaiming a new purpose for themselves (the Oath vs. Sauron's loyalty to Melkor). They both are full of rage and willing to destroy their kind and what comes from them, they both think they're write even when they're clearly wrong, and both of them, unlike Melkor who supposedly cannot truly create just corrupt or alter, can create new things.

They both heavily rely on their sense of excellence and technical capacity and neither of them seem think in terms of "enough" or "should". Instead, they follow things to the last of their consequences, while feeling fully justified to do it. They both would do things all over again if they had the chance and believe they'd do it better next time

[meadowlarkx]

grief and pride - embroidery for @tolkienekphrasisweek day 4, Gardening & Landscape Architecture! I was thinking about memory and how Elves might tell of particular places in adornments on clothing (imagining both of these designs on sleeves.)

First: Years of the Trees Fëanorian ornamentation, reminders of the Gardens of Lórien where Míriel lay, with Finwë's crest.

Second: Late First Age or Second Age Iathrim ornamentation, reminders of Menegroth and the First Kinslaying.

welcome to 'more photos and rambles at length'!!

Working on these little guys for a while I had time to think a fair amount about them. The concept of being literally clothed in one's sorrows feels very Elven and Tolkien to me. It's something about the long years and accumulating griefs, laying claim to and embodying them (powerful!), and the accompanying actions and grudges, and it's a thread that runs through both these groups. Fëanor is one of the first in the narrative to have this sort of memory/shadow on his heart, that of Míriel's passing. I love the similarities and connections between him and Míriel and the way she haunts the story, so I really enjoy the idea of Fëanor (and his sons!) reminding everyone of her absence subtly or unsubtly at every chance, including with their clothing--a mark of family loyalty which is also a nice fuck you to Indis and her children. Lórien is lush and verdant with golden flowers and mountain immortelle, don't @ me silvery tolkiengateway descriptions. I wanted this one to feel bright and vivid to echo the noontide of Valinor and the family's pride and brilliance. Finwë's crest got included in the design partly because it's less complicated than Fëanor's crest (shh), but also because I can completely see Fëanor making a(nother) claim to heirdom by wearing it.

Then of course he sets in motion greater horrors to remember. I am always thinking (@swanmaids has a great post about this) of the support Elwing canonically has in Sirion for her decision not to relinquish the Silmaril. And after seeing the 2nd kinslaying, it had to be a difficult, brave, potentially very controversial decision to hold on to it, but people are with her on this--I imagine motivated partly by real anger and grief over all they had lost and insistence upon memory, pride, dignity, identity etc. which probably remain with the few who survive the Sirion kinslaying too. And remembering Menegroth's beauty goes hand-in-hand with the grief--so I went for a bleaker look here, not the deep forest I usually picture (the 2 green vines, though, symbolizing in my head the surviving royal family/Peredhel!). This design being more of a picture of the place and less "abstract" was an attempt to gesture towards some cultural and stylistic differences in art, etc. I know this one isn't exactly a garden, but if we squint all of Doriath is an enclosed garden, so...!

Also here are the other pics. I'm imagining them bigger, but they are pretty little in real life!

[imakemywings]

As noted, I have never bought into the “Finwe and Indis condemned Miriel to eternal death” take on their situation or other views that Finwe and Indis callously fucked Miriel (and/or Feanor) over, partly because it does not, to my eye, comport to how the situation is presented, where the narrative does not place blame on any one of the three of them. The choice to remain in Mandos very much belonged to Miriel, and it was a decision she made repeatedly and without hesitation or wavering. That she might have, many years later, come to regret it does not mean Finwe and Indis were necessarily wrong to rely on the choice Miriel had repeatedly made clear. Neither is Miriel someone malleable and prone to being coerced or manipulated--she, like her son, is firm of mind and unwilling to be swayed by others. And indeed it wasn’t until after Finwe’s death that she did begin to change her mind, at which point Finwe willingly remains in Mandos so that Miriel can accept rebirth.

Even if you don’t accept History of Middle-earth as canon (and no one is required to), I think it can be very indicative of the intent behind The Silmarillion, so I have included some of those quotes below also, because Morgoth’s Ring addresses a few versions of Finwe and Miriel’s story.

“At their parting (for a little while as he thought) Finwë was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance that the mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of her son.” (The Silmarillion, “Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor”)

Initially, Miriel’s time in Lorien was meant to be temporary and restorative, and Finwe treats it as such, anticipating Miriel’s eventual return. Each version of this story makes it clear that what Finwe wanted above all was not to remarry, but to be reunited with Miriel, and that he was willing to wait for her to return--but not if she persisted in having no plans to ever return.

“Then [after Míriel’s passing] Finwë lived in sorrow; and he went often to the gardens of Lorien, and sitting beneath the silver willows beside the body of his wife he called her by her names. But it was unavailing; and alone in all the Blessed Realm he was deprived of joy.” (The Silmarillion, “Of Fëanor”)

Some of the Valar speak of Finwe’s impatience, but their perspective is much different than that of the Children. Finwe does not immediately give up on Miriel; they speak of her healing in Lorien and Finwe persists in believing that she will return, even after her effective death. In “Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor--Of Finwe and Miriel” from Morgoth’s Ring, it was twelve years after Miriel’s death that Finwe first approached Manwe about remarriage--a fair chunk of Feanor’s childhood.

“Now Ingwë, hearing of the strange grief of Finwë, and desiring to lift up his heart and withdraw him from vain mourning in Lorien, had sent messages bidding him to leave Túna for a while, and to come and dwell for a season in the full light of the Trees. Finwë thanked him but did not go, while there was yet hope that Míriel would return.” (Morgoth’s Ring, “Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor--Of Finwë and Míriel”)

It really isn’t until after the passing of the Statute of Finwe and Miriel, when Miriel commits to remaining in Mandos, that Finwe surrenders the hope that she will return and they will be together again.

Even after the statute is passed and Manwe gives Finwe permission to consider remarriage, Finwe still expresses a preference for Miriel’s return rather than remarriage:

“Finwe answered: ‘I am in no haste, My Lord, and my heart has no desire, save the hope that when this doom is made clear to Míriel, she may yet relent and set a term to my bereavement.’“ (Morgoth’s Ring, “Of Finwë and Míriel”)

Certainly you can argue he is focused here on his own feelings--but generously I would suggest it’s not entirely fair to give Miriel the power to choose not return to life but also to prevent her husband from ever moving on. Finwe is and has been willing to wait for Miriel--what appears to frustrate him is that he sees no sign Miriel will ever change her mind and therefore that he will be expected to dwell forever in perpetual grief. Which is, you know. Not great for anyone.

Vaire relays this sentiment to Miriel, who insists she cannot be healed within Arda, and Vaire reports to Namo on her mindset:

“Then Vairë said to Mandos: ‘The spirit of Míriel hath dwelt with me, and I know it. It is small, but it is strong and obdurate: one of those who having said this will I do make their words a law irrevocable unto themselves. Unless constrained, she will not return to life or to Finwë, though he should wait until the ageing of the world.’“ (Morgoth’s Ring, “Of Finwë and Míriel”)

Further confirmation that Miriel’s mind cannot be swayed by counsel (hmm that sound familiar...). Having made her decision, she means to stick with it, no matter how long Finwe waits for her. Asking Finwe--the only widower in Aman--to simply accept never having a partner again is also a heavy price to pay, and for a decision that wasn’t his.

“‘Therefore the one that is in the keeping of Mandos shall remain there until the end of Arda, and shall not awake again or take bodily form. For none among the Quendi shall have two spouses at one time alive and awake...this disunion shall come to pass only with the consent of both. And after the giving of the consent ten years of the Valar shall pass ere Mandos confirms it. Within that time either party may revoke this consent...’

It is said that Míriel answered Mandos saying: ‘I came hither to escape from the body, and I do not desire ever to return to it.’ (Morgoth’s Ring, “The Earliest Version of the Story of Finwë and Míriel”)

This earliest version of the story presents one where Miriel had a decade at minimum to choose to revoke her decision to remain in Mandos and that she herself could have put the nix on the possibility of Finwe’s remarriage, but chose not to do so. In later drafts of the story, the time required to pass before consent is accepted is increased to twelve years. (If you combine this with the twelve years Finwe waits to even approach Manwe about remarriage, this is a total of at least twenty-four years between Miriel’s death and even the possibility of Finwe’s remarriage. Add to this the three years that certain drafts place between this and his marriage with Indis for a potential total of twenty-seven years between Miriel’s death and Finwe’s remarriage.)

Here, Miriel is expressly, clearly, directly informed that she may choose to remain in Mandos, but that if she permits Finwe’s remarriage and he takes it, she will lose the ability to choose rebirth. Still, Miriel sticks with her original decision. With informed consent, Miriel makes her choice. Unless we are meant to assume she doesn’t know what she wants, it’s hard to take this as anything but confirmation that Miriel is sure she will never want to return to life. It seems unfair to condemn Finwe and Indis for taking her at her word, even if she eventually comes to regret her choice. (This is the price of the freedom of choice--you may make a choice you regret.)

“But the shadow of Míriel did not depart from the house of Finwë, nor from his [Finwë’s] heart; and of all whom he loved Fëanor had ever the chief share of his thought.” (The Silmarillion, “Of Feanor”)

Even after his wedding to Indis, Finwe does not forget his love for Miriel, and he certainly doesn’t show favoritism to the children of Indis--rather, he seems particularly concerned that Feanor should know he is loved despite his father’s remarriage. That Feanor refuses to accept this cannot, I think, be laid wholly at the feet of Finwe, particularly into Feanor’s adulthood. We can certainly say that Finwe failed to adequately reassure Feanor--but the text leaves that open as to fault and degrees of fault, and it may be there was nothing Finwe could ever have said that would have consoled Feanor, or it may be that they were both simply very different people and Finwe never managed to get through to Feanor, or it may be that Finwe did not try hard enough to make Feanor feel differently. But I also don’t consider it fair that Feanor’s disapproval should mean Indis and Finwe, two consenting adults, are prohibited from marrying.

That Finwe chooses to go into exile with Feanor and effectively surrenders his crown over it says quite a lot about his affection for Feanor and his willingness to publicly take Feanor’s side. This does not read like a case of Feanor being shunted aside by his father’s remarriage.

“In that evil time Finwë was slain by the Marrer himself, and his body was burned as by lightning stroke and destroyed. Then Míriel and Finwë met again in Mandos and lo! Míriel was glad of the meeting, and her sadness was lightened, and the will in which she had been set was released.

“And when she learned of Finwë all that had befallen since her departure (for she had given no heed to it, nor asked tidings, until then) she was greatly moved; and she said to Finwë in her thought: ‘I erred in leaving thee and our son, or at least in not soon returning after brief repose; for had I done so he might have grown wiser. But the children of Indis shall redress his errors and therefore I am glad they should have being, and Indis hath my love. How should I bear grudge against one who received what I rejected and cherish what I abandoned.’“ (Morgoth’s Ring, “Laws and Customs Among the Eldar”) (emphasis added)

In this earlier draft of the story from HoME, Miriel explicitly approves post-hoc of the marriage, praising the children of Indis and foreseeing they might fix Feanor’s wrongs, and disavowing that she might have any bitterness towards Indis for marrying Finwe. This, I think, is also deeply indicative of how we are meant to view this situation: Miriel herself does not resent Indis. Miriel herself does not think Indis did anything wrong--nor does she seem to believe either Finwe or Indis wronged Feanor. This goes to the point that just because Feanor was angry and upset about his father’s remarriage doesn’t, in and of itself, mean Finwe was wrong to remarry.

Immediately after this, Miriel expresses a desire again for life, and so Finwe entreats Vaire to release Miriel from Mandos:

“And Finwë said to Vairë: ‘Dost thou hear the prayer and desire of Míriel? Why will Mandos refuse this redress of her griefs, that her being may not be void and without avail? Behold! I instead will abide with Mandos for ever, and so make amends.’“ (Morgoth’s Ring, “Laws and Customs Among the Eldar”) (emphasis added)

Both Finwe and Miriel appear here to have regrets about what happened. Unfortunately, regrets are part of life and not necessarily indicative that something wrong was done. But Finwe now voluntarily remains behind in Mandos that Miriel might again have life, now that she has expressed a shift in her view on the matter. Not really the behavior of someone with no concern about Miriel’s happiness or well-being. Nor does he throw himself on the sword suggesting he was wrong to remarry, which would’ve called for some apology to Miriel. Again, I think this is just an overall difficult, tragic situation out of which there was no easy, painless path.

Nor is it suggested that Indis was seeking to horn in on the marriage between Finwe and Miriel.

“She [Indis] loved Finwë dearly; for her heart had turned to him long before, while the Vanyar still dwelt with the Noldor in Túna. In those days, she had looked upon the Lord of the Noldor, and he seemed to her the fairest and noblest of the Eldar...Therefore she remained unwedded when her people removed to Valinor, and she walks often alone in the friths and fields of Valinor, filling them with music.” (Morgoth’s Ring, “Of Finwë and Míriel”)

Yes, Indis loved Finwe even while Miriel was still alive--but no version of the story suggests she tried to slide in when Miriel had died, or tried to disturb their marriage before. In fact, the way she catches Finwe’s attention is entirely accidental.

“...when Indis saw Finwë climbing the paths of the Mountain, and the light of Laurelin was behind him as a glory, without forethought she sang suddenly in great joy, and her voice went up as a song of the lirulin in the sky. Then Finwë heard that song falling from above, and he looked up and saw Indis in the golden light, and he knew in that moment that she loved him and had long done so.” (Morgoth’s Ring, “Of Finwë and Míriel”)

The presentation of Indis has never been, in my view, of a gold-digger or someone who was looking to take advantage of Miriel’s death or absence. Between The Silmarillion and HoME, Indis seems presented more as one who, knowing Miriel desired never to return to life, saw that she and Finwe might find some joy out of his grief. She could not have foreseen that Feanor would take their marraige so poorly, or that he would never forgive it, or the extremes to which he was willing to go to show that, post-Melkor’s release.

As noted in quotes below, even the Valar recognized that Indis had loved Finwe “in patience, and without bitterness,” which is not a descriptor, to me, of someone trying to take personal advantage of the situation. She isn’t at fault for loving Finwe, and she isn’t at fault for his choosing to remarry, or for Miriel’s choosing to die. Honestly of everyone involved here, I think Indis has the least culpability. All she did was marry someone she loved, with the consent of his late wife.

“The wedding of his father was not pleasing to Fëanor; and he had no great love for Indis, nor for Fingolfin and Finarfin, her sons...In those unhappy things which later came to pass, and in which Fëanor was the leader, many saw the effect of this breach within the house of Finwë, judging that if Finwë had endured his loss and been content with the fathering of his mighty son, the courses of Fëanor might have been otherwise...But the children of Indis were great and glorious, and their children also; and if they had not lived the history of the Eldar would have been diminished.” (The Silmarillion, “Of Fëanor”) (emphasis added)

The end of this section is one I think is crucial to remember for the narrative: Tolkien explicitly eschews the idea that everything would’ve simply been better if Finwe and Indis had never married and never had kids. Yes, grief came out of the situation, but joy and greatness came from it too, and erasing Fingolfin, Finarfin, Lalwen, Findis, Fingon, Aredhel, Turgon, Argon, Finrod, Aegnor, Angrod, and Galadriel, and their descendants from the story and the history of the Elves would be a lessening.

This is a sentiment that existed from very early drafts:

“‘Behold! Indis the fair shall be made glad and fruitful, who might have else been solitary....Long hath she loved Finwë, in patience and without bitterness. Aulë named Fëanor the greatest of the Eldar, and in potency that is true. But I say unto you that the children of Indis shall also be great, and the Tale of Arda more glorious because of their coming. And from them shall spring things so fair that no tears shall dim their beauty; in whose being the Valar, and the Kindreds of both of Elves and of Men that are to come shall all have part, and in whose deeds they shall rejoice...When he that shall be called Eärendil setteth foot upon the shores of Aman, ye shall remember my words.’“ (Namo addresses the Valar, Morgoth’s Ring, “Laws and Customs Among the Eldar”) (emphasis added)

Attached to The Earliest Draft of the Story of Finwe and Miriel is this Laws and Customs Among the Eldar wherein the Valar debate whether or not to permit Finwe’s remarriage and whether any of the three Elves involved here is at fault for the situation. During this debate, Namo Mandos gives this proclamation about the greatness of the children of Indis and the impact they will have on the future of Arda, even to anticipating the arrival of Earendil in Aman.

Narratively, Tolkien thus emphasizes that great good comes from the marriage of Finwe and Indis, in spite of Feanor’s response to it which causes much grief for the Elves. If the purpose of the story was to feel that they had acted in pure selfishness and that their marriage was some turning point where the tragedies of the Elves could have been entirely averted, I don’t think he would have taken so much care to make it clear what beneficial things came out of it.

All of which is to say I stand by my original assessment that none of these people was wholly at fault for what happened. Unfortunately we are all of us swayed by our emotions and there are times when there is simply no easy way out of a sticky situation. As in the original post--there was no way to fix this without someone being deeply unhappy. The marriage of Finwe and Indis, particularly as approved by Miriel, probably seemed at the time like the most painless way to handle it, particularly as the strong love of Finwe for Feanor would likely negate Feanor’s being usurped by any children of Indis. Certainly you can choose to read malicious motives into any of the four characters chiefly involved here--but I don’t think it’s the most accurate reading of the text. At worst, I think they could be viewed as careless or blinkered, but I don’t think any of them was ill-intentioned.