#and this is also why so many redemption arcs feel hollow to me

[mightymizora]

I don’t think redemption is something that can really be seen in the light of deserved or undeserved, but rather in degrees of commitment.

Because redemption, to me, isn’t inherently moral. It is a commitment to a change. It is an understanding that what you are embracing will be a lifelong state. A discarding of ego for service. A decision to wake up every day and actually possibly to deny your basest impulses, ignore them until they are not so loud, and to decide to act against them even if they still deafen you.

It is saying who I was is who I am, but I want to be something else as well. I believe in my capacity to grow, to hold the line and to weather the acceptance that what I was hurt people, caused pain that may never be forgiven, but that living and dealing with that pain is worth doing, because I can be better. Not just for me, but for others.

[heartbreakprincewille]

Okay, I was just thinking about a legal justice plotline in S3(meaning Wilhelm and Simon essentially having legal proceedings against August) and I don't think that we will get this in S3 at all but it's really really interesting to think about nevertheless.

Because usually in queer stories, coming out solves all the problems like a magical, fix-it-all solution and the mains live happily ever after. But YR heavily leans on realism and even if the S2 ending is an ambiguous but fitting ending for a queer show (sort of a coming out montage), it does not work for this show.

It has been repeatedly said by the cast and crew that Wilhelm's problem is not being queer, it's being a prince. The systemic traditions weighing on a person who can't even grieve his own brother without being shoved into empty traditions and a PR machiavelli. A person who cannot even fall in love with another person without a thousand worries crossing his mind in every move. A person who tried to confide in his own cousin but his privacy got shattered in front of the whole world instead. It's not that Wilhelm being queer itself is a problem. Instead the domino effect it would bring to people around him is the problem. And that's why it was such a task for Wilhelm to get his mother on board for the idea of a relationship with Simon- because everyone (and it includes Kristina) will try to enforce the heteronormative narrative again and again on him, pretending like his feelings don't matter because in the end, it's easier for them. It's easier for them to live in their centuries-old metaphorical gilded cages and try to enforce the traditions on the royal family itself because the monarchists and the rich (old AND new) thrive under the "stability" the monarchy provides to their social stature and their bulging pockets. Even August's motivations towards the crown are two-fold: he's not only in a constant want of power, but he is also a firm believer in continuing traditions and he directly benefits from the monarchy running as it is. And having the power in his hands will let him ensure that his own estates and rich-people solidarity is never threatened again.

But Wilhelm emerges as an anomaly in the system- he will not tie himself down to hollow traditions. And it threatens everyone's stability, which leads to the denial- and the swirling wave of change calms down. But then Wilhelm starts refusing all the traditions and eventually retracts the denial- and the wave hits all of them like a storm.

And Wilhelm trying to seek justice through the legal machinery is not only very poetic (a prince trying to seek fairness in a democratic system because the monarchy inevitably fails him), but it will also rock the boats of so many people. They will finally get to understand that rich and powerful people also have consequences for their actions and their safety nets can blow away no matter how much money they throw away to keep themselves afloat.

I can understand one argument that August is also young and maybe legal consequences will be a bit extreme for him. But, like, any other common person will be blown apart by the system despite being innocent, why is he any exception? If human lives have equal value, why their actions should be treated differently? I would still like August to have a chance at a realization of the severity of his actions rather than facing legal consequences, but I also do want him to face the legal mechanism or atleast face the fear of having legal consequences for his actions. These two things can co-exist. Simon can easily be torn apart because of the whole dealing thing, and no one would come and save his ass for it. It's the biasness for me.

Overthrowing the monarchy or letting August have a redemption arc is just not possible in a single 6-episode season. It will simply be unnatural to the progression of the story. However, atleast in my head, Wilhelm and Simon seeking justice through a legal system can bring the consequences into action without the added labour of scrapping away a deeply rooted institution or changing the way a person's psyche works.

[herobrinna]

ok so ive spammed my friend with toh thoughts a bit to much so time to ramble here i suppose. (sorry in advance thisll be very disjointed and go from one random point to another).

my main take away from the finale is that it felt a bit... hollow?

like dont get me wrong, the animation was so fucking good. getting more titan and collector lore was also so cool (and hellooo The Titan being such a genderqueer royal? absolutely love how natural toh rep is, like its just thrown out there and no one questions it, just how shit is, absolutely bangers- *gets shot*). and aaaa, the aged up re-designs of all the characters are so good, especially like the detail how all the hexsquad have a flapjack tattoo.

yet there are so many bits that just feel off? like they couldve been handle better (even with the cut runtime the show had).

first lets start with the Collector who just got done dirty, like their whole arc was about the fear of being alone again, yet at the end they decided to leave? just like that? like would it not make more sense for him to stay with Eda, to learn to control his powers better and make new friends. especially them leaving to "mature" or whatever doesnt really make sense, like how can they grow as a person if they dont interact with others, if they dont get exposed to different opinions and believes and all that.

and i dont really like Collie, but it still feels like he deserved better, especially after taking up so much runtime.

actually you know what wouldve made the show better? not introducing the Collector in the first place.

no but think about it, why waste so much runtime on a character that didnt even exist before the show was cut (and thus had very little foreshadowing and buildup to his introduction) and then to not even give them a sweeter ending?

if anything the show shouldve stuck with the Day of Unity being the true finale. like honestly if DoU happened over the 3 specials they actually had plenty of time to flesh out all the existing characters further, maybe there could have been even a little more time for more slice of life moments. but then the whole bit with Collie just feels likes taking away precious time, that his character could have only worked if the show wasnt cut, but if it wasnt cut he wouldnt have existed in the first place, so man idk.

and on the topic of the DoU, holy shit Belos got done dirty, im actually mildly mad at his demise.

like it just overall doesnt make sense thematically.

like, ok this is gonna be hard to phrase, and i would like to straight away say i dont think Belos should ever be redeemed, just gonna use other characters redemptions as example.

so toh throughout its enite runtime is really set on showing that everyone deserves a second chance for as long as they want and are willing to change. we see this with Lilith who was pretty much immediately redeemed at the beginning of s2, and whilst many people say it was rushed, or she didnt deserve it, i think otherwise. like throughout s1 she only tries to get Eda into the Emperor's coven out of the belief that Belos will cure her, cuz yknow, she feels really fucking guilty for cursing her sister, and even then she doesnt really force Eda that much into joining, like there are many moments of weakness were Lilith couldve dragged Eda to the emperor, but she didnt, she gave Eda many chances to join on her own. and again the only reason she even wanted Eda to be in the coven was to right her mistake of cursing her. so after going through that guilt for years of course shed be forgiven quickly, as she showed that she wants to change, be better and all that.

we see this with Hunter as well, though his redemption was more gradual, yet still his past wrongs arnt brought up, like how he patronised Eda and Luz during his first meeting, or attacked Amity in eclipse lake, cuz he was also doing shit out of the belief of helping people, and clearly wanted to change for the better, so why bring up his past wrongs when hes a better person now and all that.

why bring this up?

well with Belos toh brought up an interesting dilemma, what do you do with a person that doesnt want to change, thats stuck in a loop of his short sighted beliefs in a system thats ready to accept and help anyone that tries to change regardless of their past?

and the answer to that being to just kill him?

like how does that solve anything? he died thinking he was in the right, that witches are still spawns of satan or whatever tf. it just feels like it goes against what the show established.

now dont get me wrong, the scene of him trying to manipulate Luz for the millionth time and her just staring him down completely unfazed is amazing, it says more than any actual words could ever. what isnt is then Raine, Eda and King immediately stomping him afterwards, which again, just proofs Belos' point that witches are "evil" from his perspective. (how did he even die from that when even mf Collie wasnt able to kill him? and ne got hit by a car and that *still* didnt kill him either, it just feels like he shouldve survived that)

so imagine if instead of them stomping him down they decided to imprison him, that will of course also have the effect of saving him from the boiling rain. so now Belos has to live with the fact that it was witches that saved him, the same witches he'd never show that kind of mercy to, the same witches he would murder the second he got the chance, and what makes it worse is the fact that the human, the one he oh so creepily obsessed over didnt even do anything, wouldve left him suffer in the boiling rain if she had the choice.

and just generally, letting him actually *live* with the consequences of his actions would have been so much more fitting. like dying is easy, wayy too easy, an escape from consequences, but actually living with said consequences, well thats delightfully horrific.

and his death isnt the only way that they done him dirty, the Titan also basically just said that Belos is just evil and theres nothing more too it, when there literally is?? like hello what were all thos Hollow Mind paintings for if not to show that Belos aint just pure evil, how he is a victim of shitty circumstances, yet how despite that it doesnt excuse the extent to which he took shit to.

and the just forgot about that?

... oh right, they forgot the memory paintings even existed untill someone posted their own redraws of them, no wonder they fucked Belos' character up so much :/

man im getting tired from rambling this much lol

but overall its just toh has so many missed opportunities, i could go on and on about them, although not like my rambles make any sense probably, and many people have def explained similar point much better so im just gonna shit up now.

(and of course im gonna rewrite this for my oc x Belos au <3 )

[synergysilhouette]

Things in "Engage" that confused/frustrated me (Spoilers)

Just finished Engage! While I enjoyed certain aspects of it, there were a few things about it that bothered me.

Why couldn't the Emblems revive Alear immediately instead of having Veyle revive them (and then watch them die for a second time)?

The "Sombron is your father" didn't really have any long-term consequences. It was a twist I saw coming because of previous installments, but all we see if a flashback of evil Alear (it would make more sense as a nightmare, imo). When we go to the past, they aren't like this at all; they're pretty apathetic. I'm also confused about how Alear was "willed" into becoming a divine dragon.

Rushed/no development for the villains. 3.5. Marnie's redemption arc. Marnie's game to kill a bunch of people (and her backstory rashly explains her desire for praise/attention), but when Veyle is being brainwashed, she's furious. We never see her really interact with Vayle, so the revelation that they had a friendship instead of a professional relationship felt super rushed. 3.6. Zephia helps us out. She talked a big game about worshipping Lord Sombron, then helps us on a whim when she's about to die. She then reveals she wanted a child and undervalued the Hounds. It would've been neat if she was secretly working for Lumera and acting on her orders, or that she was secretly Vayle and Alear's mother. It'd be neat if it went into a branching route similar to Birthright/Conquest, but I digress. In any case, 3.5 and 3.6 exemplify how underdeveloped Zephia and the Hounds are, especially with the confessions she and Griss shared at their deaths. 3.7. Ivy having little plot relevance after returning the rings to us. It sucks how she and Hortensia start off as villains, then when they join us, they eventually fade to the background. Plus Zelkov made it clear he doesn't even like her and just sees his loyalty as an obligation; wouldn't him betraying her (because she betrayed her father) make more sense? And despite summoning Sombra, Hyacinth is immediately killed for sustenance. Feels like a waste of a villain. I'd enjoy it if Sombra entrusted the Hounds and Zephia to him to lead. Plus removing Sombron's craving for royal blood would also keep Morion alive as well. 3.8. Sombron's brief backstory deserved more attention, but instead it's crammed in there at the last minute and rushed. Rather than "I came from another world and my family was slaughtered," maybe all that stuff happened in Elyos, and it made Sombron turn against the lands, as well as having a protective, twisted love for his children; he'd emotionally abuse them until they were emotionless like Alear or fearful like Veyle. It'd parallel how Zephia had no concept of "real love." His conversation with Alear made me cringe: "I'm alone in this world and unloved, I'll slaughter my kids since they're means to an end, but if you commit patricide, you're a monster."

Why did Sombron have so many kids? It feels needless to mention them if they aren't involved in the plot or flashbacks and only Alear and Veyle survive. Past Alear mentions how some of them were killed, but it feels needless to mention them. I get that this plays into why Alear fears the curropted, but I wish we had more time to see the weight of it (ie seeing one of the children killed due to Alear's failure). Staying in the past a bit longer would also help flesh out Zephia's character a bit more. Or the plot could've nixed the 12 rings idea and made them 12 (or less) of Sombron's kids he needed to reabsorb in order to attain full power.

Nix the bittersweet battle against Lumera. It feels copied from Fates (Revelation) with Mikoto: your queen mother dies early on, only to battle you towards the end, hoping to be together forever. It would've been nice to have her survive! It sucks that the last three protagonists of FE games are left orphans. Plus her asking Veyle to call her "Mother" and Veyle saying she already has a mother feels hollow since we don't know much about her and Alear's biological mothers.

Was it ever explained if Alear can turn into a dragon? Veyle said she can't, but I don't recall it being addressed if Alear could.

Nit-picks: you need a pact ring for platonic S-supports. That's ridiculous to me. And while I liked the voice acting, the voice direction could've been better.

[tae-shimura-is-my-wife]

!Long post!

Ulquiorra and Orihime relationship didn't started as the cutest or nicest thing ever and i can recognize that, but i don't ship them because he kidnapped her (by Aizen's order) or for saying distateful things to Ori.

Ulquiorra it's not a human, he doesn't have moral and lives in a cruel world, which makes sense of why he's so nihilistic, Ulquiorra didn't treat her like a princess at the start and tried to break Ori spirit, but at the moment she didn't acted like anyone else he got surprised and then wanted to understand her and what she is feeling, she literally changed his world view! Only with her feelings Ori made Ulquiorra, a hollow, a "bad creature" question everything what he thought was right.

Ulquiorra not only tried to understand her, but also was slowly chaging his behaviour to her, especially after he listened to her crying because of him, he even protected Ori from Ichigo's attacks when she wasn't necessary to Aizen anymore.

That's the reason why i don't feel uncomfortable, because despite they having a rowdy start, Ulquiorra a corrupted soul was willing to understand and change for Ori. No she didn't fixed him or need to, Ori didn't forced him to anything! He did it HIMSELF! Kinda in a unconsciously way, but because of her!

The idea of this ship for me is them living a peaceful life together after his redemption, not this dark and edgy "omg he kidnapped her so s3xy!" or "he atormented her so many s#xual tension!". Especially because Nel is an example that not all hollows are bad! And a Hollow having a rendemption arc would be amazing c'mon!

I don't speak for everyone in the fandom, because people have different interpretations, but this is how i view them.

This is why they often paralled to Beauty and the Beast, a nice and kind girl changed Beast worldview and willing to change his behaviour, because of her! She didn't fixed him, he did it himself! And after he become a actually good person, he could live a wonderful life by her side.

[jackoshadows]

Thank you for so eloquently articulating all the reasons Brienne and Jaime are not this ideal romantic pairing many readers take them to be. Jaime’s whole tour in the Riverlands left me with such a hollow feeling, I realise now because I was hoping for him to genuinely reflect on the terrible ruin of the lands and his role in it...and he never did?

I was also quite disappointed when Brienne told him she would save Cat’s daughters for his honour’s sake...because it’s not about his honour, it’s about the vows you (Brienne) made to Cat, why should he take a central place in this quest? He’s sending you to an active war zone unaccompanied to fulfil an oath HE should fulfil. I understand that he saved her life and she’s beholden to him, but she really needs to have the blinders removed from her eyes, and I look forward for Lady Stoneheart to finally confront his sins.

Agree.

Yeah, there is this disconnect with how I feel about Jaime's AFfC arc and what the majority of readers seem to think is a 'redemption' arc. Reading Theon's arc in ADwD - where a character who has done terrible things expresses true remorse and regret - only highlights and emphasizes this for me.

And yes, Brienne should have told him that he should fulfill his oaths instead of delegating and handing off his job to others. I get the feeling that she knows the only chance those girls have is Brienne herself. And besides, Brienne is falling in love.

That's one of the one of the reasons for why I am not a fan of Jaime/Brienne. Instead of Brienne making Jaime a better guy, I think Jaime is going to be pulling Brienne into morally grey territory. As a Lady Stoneheart fan, I am going to hate, hate, hate it when Brienne inevitably intervenes to save Jaime Lannister from actual justice for his crimes. Ah well, considering the next book is never coming out, I don't have to read it anyways 😂

[gaecactae]

Hello cactae! I love your art it's so cute and refresh's from so much angstTM on the server lmao. But I want to ask about you're thoughts on a redemption on c!awsamdude or do you think he actually can be redeemed?

I read your post about warden!sam while back and you quite sympathize with his character. You brought very fair points that sam is deserving to be sympathized, even though sam is also one the people who don't stream his pov when it comes to the corruption arc or at least prison visits but we feel and see through how it's taking effect in other peoples pov's. I'm a c!tommy sympathizer so I'm not quite comfortable viewing c!sam is such light but I would like to hear your thoughts!

I'm sorry this is a long ask, if this is too hard to answer then feel free to skip or delete! :D

Hello fellow Tommy sympathiser! Thank you for kind words and willingness to hear some opinions :D

Ever since I made that post about Sam, I’ve found a lot info about his character and Sam’s opinion!

I guess one of the reasons, although not too valid but I guess still something, why I sympathise with his character that much, is because I look at the plot from the eyes of young adult. I left the teenage state not so long ago, and I begun to see things differently, almost immediately. Especially things connecting to taking responsibility for our actions and how I had to take responsibility for my deeds when I was a teen etc.

About Sam redeeming. I think it is possible! I think we’re all waiting for the climax, when Dream escapes with Technoblade (supposedly) and Sam “gets what he deserves” aka. gets beaten up, one of his canon lives is taken, all of this type of stuff. Which, honestly? I’m sort of hoping for. I’m a huge awesamponk stan as well! Ponk said some time ago, that maybe Sam will win a way to his heart again, someday? Of course from the eyes of a viewer, it may be weird that Ponk, who had his hand taken literally, by Sam, would fall in love with him again. But I believe that Ponk may be Sam’s redemption, literally. So imagining how maybe Ponk would help Sam escape the hollow building that will only contain him at some point, after Dream escapes, maybe he will run away with him, somewhere, where he can get back to form.

I deeply believe it was the prison itself, that corrupted Sam, not the Egg as some may believe. I also don’t think he’s a bad person as well! I don’t want to be seen as an apologist, I don’t really want to be sorry for his actions tbh? Cause some of his actions are flawed, like breaking Prison’s rules along to his own plans or getting manipulated by mr. Quackster; yet still in some situations I saw his point.

You’re gonna hate me for this hfjfndjdj but I did saw his point when Tommy broke into the prison with Ghostbur. I wouldn’t be surprised in the tiniest, if Tommy was killed by Sam, at that current moment, cause he quite literally broke in. I know Tommy had quite valid reason, getting a revenge, but it could have been executed differently! Well, now it’s honestly not that important, cause it’s past, and there’s not much we can do about it, cause it already happened.

So, going back to Sam being sympathised; Sam said himself that his character doesn’t deserve sympathy, cause he’s a cold, corrupted, dangerous motherfucker. Which, alright, I guess? I think I got to the point where I embrace this corrupted side of his. Cause not every character with which we sympathise, must be a good person. Every character in the dsmp is flawed at some point, some people more, some people less, the question is, which side we sympathise with more.

I mean look at people now! It’s so funny to me, and maybe I’m projecting, but I saw so many people turn to Dream out of the blue! Techno is with him now, and suddenly people that were very much against him, sympathise with him! Sort of. All the drawings of Dream in Techno’s cloak, Techno comforting Dream on fanarts, suddenly it’s all a bit softer!

I think I sympathise with Sam’s softer side, from before the prison, hoping he would be back to it someday. I see his character as the troubled, lonely Warden that was stuck in this obsidian block, trapped with Elder Guardians’s noises and Dream’s screams, echoing through the walls, to the point where he just couldn’t take it anymore and went crazy. Would happen to anyone, but he took the Warden’s role. I mean. He sort of knew this job will take him whole, since he put down the first block of it, probably.

But I don’t want to make a wimp out of him by saying that. I don’t want to establish his character as a poor baby boy that needs love and hugsies and all of this! I just think he lost himself. He is a strong man that will hopefully redeem himself from the prison arc, but I don’t know how

And at this point I definitely stop to know what I’m writing and I’m just pouring random words so I hope any of this is comprehensive enough lmao jdjdhhf

Thank you for the ask again!!

Man I love to discuss shit even when I’m just a stupid bitch at some times

[aspoonofsugar]

Alright, it's the same anon from last time. So, I'm gonna try to address the things in order. I don't really mess with the whole "deserve" or "earn" redemption things because it can get messy if the word is misused, in a sense. Basically, I wasn't trying to argue if Cinder deserved redemption or not.I don’t know a lot about Save the Cat moments, so I decided to search it up and do a little research. From what I can tell, those moments are usually meant for the protags. (Heads up, very large ask)

Cinder obviously started out as an antag during the first few volumes, but it seems like Cinder changed to a villain protag at the start of Volume 6. Right, I’m trying to say that Cinder did have a Save the Cat moment at the start of Volume 6, when she became a villain protag.

Framed as an adult is something I also don’t know about so I read a lot of Hamliet and your posts about Cinder. Cinder is mentor coded to to the Mers, but if we are really saying that mentorships are kind coded to adults, couldn’t I argue that Watts, Raven, and Salem in a sense are her mentors? The only mentorship that is somewhat healthy is Raven’s and that’s because Cinder is given the opportunity to rebel. Great post about this on OneWomanCitadel's blog about this.

Furthermore, Hazel and Tyrian actually seem to be more coded as parental figures torwards Emerald and Mercury. In Emerald’s case, she needed a figure to actually care for her and show her to not be so dependent on Cinder. And Tyrian took more of a unhealthy/abusive relationship torwards Mercury, given all the scenes with him. That’s why I believe Cinder is more child coded than adult coded. (I have an insane crack theory about Cinder’s age but that’s too far lol)

It’s possible that one could argue Cinder being child coded is why the CEM fell apart (I have seperate theories about CEM but I’m keeping that to myself for now.) but to me, it’s mainly because they all project their problems on each other. Even though it seems like everyone cares about everyone in CEM (Maybe I’m reaching a bit here, but you can ignore this if you don’t agree.) it wouldn’t have worked out because of their problems that need to be healed.

And considering the point of the story…I don’t really know what you mean by that? Could you clarify? I’m gonna try to interpret what you mean by that but feel free to correct me. I’d say Vol. 8 was the halfway point to the end of RWBY. I’m of the mind that Cinder will defect at the end of the Vacuo Arc and probably start her redemption arc after she obtains the Crown of Choice and saved by Ruby and Jaune on top of Beacon Tower. Midnight allusions, stuck in Midnight, I think you get this gist.

Hi!

I am gonna break your ask in two because, if I don’t, it is gonna be difficult to answer properly :)

Ok, so this is a long answer to this post about my theory that Cinder will die in the end.

Before replying, let me clarify again that... it is just a theory. Not only that, but it is also a very future oriented one. So it might not come true and I might very well discard it at the end of next volume depending on what happens. Moreover, if Cinder survives in a way that I find satisfying, I will be happy about it. If she survives in a way that imo cheapens the story I will be pissed and the same can be said if she dies in a meaningless and hollow way.

Once this is established, let me try to answer some of your doubts.

THE POINT WE ARE IN THE STORY

I meant 2 things.

1) Imo we are 1/2 - 3/4 through the story. I think we are gonna have volume 9, then 3 volumes set in Vacuo and maybe 1 more volume set in Vale. Still, considering the current pace of the series and how many things they manage to usually cover in a single volume we might just have vol 10-11 set in Vacuo and volume 12 set in Vale.

In short, considering the number of characters and how many subplots we have, I do not think there is gonna be much time for a long redemption arc for Cinder. I think her arc is more or less going to go this way:

-she hits rock bottom in the Vacuo arc (Em + Merc confronts her + she has to face the truth about Salem and realizes what her Grimm arm is truly about)

-she is saved towards the end by Ruby (maybe Jaune)

-her being saved by her enemies + Em and Merc’s influence + the truth about Salem lead to her redemptive act in the finale

-her redemption results in her death foiling both Penny and Pyrrha

Basically, the later the redemption starts in the story, the harsher it is going to be. It is easier to have a character work on their inner change while there are still many things going on because they still have many challenges and many chances to struggle. If a character only starts to work toward a 180 degree change toward the end of the story, then the stakes are bound to be higher. Especially if it is such a central character like Cinder.

2) Cinder herself is not close to redemption in her personal arc and by the end of volume 8 she has actively refused to change. She is challenged throughout all Atlas and Mistral, but in the end she chooses to cut off all her bonds and to go back to her previous persona instead of honestly accepting her vulnerability. Not only that, but this choice has very negative consequences for others. She betrays her comrades and kills Penny aka a character very dear to both the viewers and to the protagonists. Her actions are bound to bring bad consequences for her too in the future.

In short, we are probably 3/4 in the story and Cinder has just reinforced all her negative choices and traits. She is far away from even starting to positively change. She is bound to hit rock bottom as a consequence of this. Does it mean she has to die? No. I actually think she will be saved from her spiral. Though, then she will have to show she has changed. The most likely option is for her to make a selfless choice and, given the way RWBY treats death, Cinder killing both Penny and Pyrrha and the symbolic nature of the Maidens (see the meta above), I think a redemptive death is probable.

SAVING CATS AND KICKING DOGS

Save the Cat is just another way to call a Pet the Dog moment.

In short, it is just a moment where you humanize a villain to make them more likable. It is basically a redeeming trait the character has. That said, it is not that a Save the Cat moment = redemption or that none means no redemption.

Anyway, RWBY has been given many of its villains Save the Cat moments. Like, Hazel, Emerald and Mercury all have those.

Let’s see Em and Merc’s.

1)

Emerald: It’s almost sad.

This is Em’s. She clearly shows regret and guilt over what is happening at Beacon. This moment makes the viewers understand Emerald is not without conscience and that she is not inherently cruel. She shows doubt over her actions hence she has potential for changing.

2)

Mercury: Emerald get up, we need to go... Emerald!

Rather than a single moment, Merc’s whole relationship with Em is his redeeming trait. So, Em is basically Merc’s Morality Pet. He clearly adores her and it is in this specific relationship that lies potential for change.

Well, Cinder completely lacks such a moment/element. She is highly sympathetic and human, but she never displays guilt over hurting others and does not selflessly care for another person. Obviously her feelings for Em and Merc are more complex than what she likes to think. Still, she does not treat them well or selflessly. She abuses and mistreats them. She leaves them behind and gives their presence in her life as a given.

Moreover, Cinder is given several moments when she displays gratuitous cruelty. Even more than necessary for her personal objectives.

For example, she does not really need to kill Pyrrha. She has already won, Pyrrha’s aura is broken and she can’t move. She could have simply gone away, but she chooses to completely burn her down.

In the Battle of Heaven she impales Weiss not because she thinks she is a threath to her, but to hurt Jaune.

In volume 6 she kills a woman whose only fault was to offer her help.

In volume 8, not only does she deeply hurt the protagonists and kills Penny, but she also betrays her comrades.

These actions can be called Kick the Dog and they are meant to cement the villanious nature of a character.

In short, general viewers are gonna be more open and forgive more easily a character that shows positive traits, rather than one who routinely displays cruelty to everyone else. Cinder is currently more in the second category, rather than the first.

CHILDREN AND ADULTS

Child-coding is about how you frame a character. It has not necessarily to do with age, but more to do about a character role in a story.

For example, Shigaraki Tomura in BNHA is a young adult, but he is framed as a child who needs to grow. He has an evil mentor who abuses him. He has child-like understanding of many things and his story parallels the MC who is a teenagers. He also has no mentee, but peers he bonds with.

In coming of age stories, usually child-coded characters have more chances of surviving and of growing positively. This is because they are more open to change, like kids.

That said, this is not always the case because there are actually different kinds of child-coding. This means you can code a character as a child for different reasons.

Some examples.

1) You initially code a character as a child, but as the story goes on the character grows and he loses said coding.

See, this is what happens with Snk main cast. They start as kids, but as the story goes on they become adults who have to protect kids. So, they are not more kids by the end. This means they must grow up in the end and the protagonist, who refuses to do so, dies in the end as a consequence. Him being initially child coded does not save him.

2) Penny is child-coded, but she still dies. This happens because her story is both a coming of age story and a tragedy. So, by the end she grows, but also dies. It is powerful, but very sad.

3) You child-code an adult to actually show they are refusing to grow/can’t grow and this is framed as a negative thing.

This third case is partially what is happening with Cinder.

To be more specific, Cinder is coded as an adult when she is introduced. This coding is consistent when it comes to her relationship with Em and Merc (and with the protagonists too... like... Cinder is not RWBY’s generation). However, as the story goes on, the framing changes and we discover she is deep down Salem’s bratty teenage daughter.

This is used to illustrate the cycle of abuse. She is abused by Salem and abuses Emerald and Mercury in return.

So, Cinder is not a child in the story in the same way that RWBY, JNR, Penny, Pyrrha, Oscar, Emerald and Mercury are. She is an adult with child-like traits and because of these child-like traits she struggles to improve her situation.

Also, a note about Cinder’s relationship with Emerald and Mercury. There is no doubt that she is their authority figure. Like, they are not peers or siblings. Cinder specifically frames herself as their guardian. This is how the story presents their relationship as well.

Roman: Oh, look! She sent the kids again! This is turning out just like the divorce!

Here, the joke is that Cinder is the mother to Roman’s father. Obviously, Roman is not the father, but the point of the line is that he sees himself and Cinder as adults and Em and Merc as kids.

Raven uses a similar language:

Raven: Two children you’ve tricked into following you.

Again, Raven does not refer to Cinder as a child. She talks to her as you would to an equal, while she treats Mercury and Em as kids.

The hierarchy of the trio is shown also by their body language at Beacon:

During their meetings, Merc and Em are constantly shown on the floor, while Cinder sits on the bed. This is not by chance. It is a figurative way to show they are not equals.

In general, Cinder herself treats them as kids when she is in a good mood:

Mercury: You should be able to take her no problem.

Cinder: It's not about overpowering the enemy. It's about taking away what power they have. And we will, in time.

Mercury: I hate waiting.

Cinder: Don't worry, Mercury. We have a fun weekend ahead of us.

And as minions when she is angry:

Cinder: Both of you, get out. I’ll let you know when you’re needed next.

This is not a relationship among peers or even siblings.

Mercury and Emerald themselves have clearly tied their respective parental issues to Cinder:

Emerald: I just... Cinder was the only family I ever had. She cared about me, taught me things... But without her here, I don't know if what we're doing--

Mercury: Wake up, already...Cinder doesn't care about you! She doesn't care about either of us!

Emerald: You don't know what you're talking about!

Mercury: You're in denial. And if you're gonna start having a crisis of identity or some crap... keep me out of it.

Mercury: I'm sorry you didn't have a mommy that loved you, but I had a father who hated me!

Emerald mentions care and learning things. They are concepts linked to a parent/mentor. Mercury specifically says Cinder cares about neither of them, compares Emerald’s relationship with Cinder to a mother-daughter one and then brings out his father.

If right now, it seems that the lines in this hiearachy are not as solid as before, it is simply because Em and Merc, like the protagonists are growing. RWBY is a story where kids inspire adults, so you have Ruby inspiring Qrow and Weiss inspiring Winter. Em and Merc will probably do the same for Cinder. This does not change the role Cinder has had in their life and does not turn her into a child.

Even the example of Watts, Hazel and Tyrian all foiling a member of CEM actually shows that the framing around Em and Merc and the one around Cinder are different.

Hazel and Tyrian, as you said, are framed as parental figures to EM. Watts is not framed as a parental figure, but as Cinder’s colleague that calls her out. They are equals. Cinder is not submissive to Watts, like Merc is to Tyrian and does not depend on him, like Em with Hazel.

In short, Cinder is framed as a child only when it comes to Salem, but this is like saying that Qrow must be read as a child because Ozpin is his mentor. It does not really hold up. What is true, though, is that both Qrow and Cinder (and Winter) are adults/mentors with childish traits rooted in their childhood issues and that they will face them/overcome them thanks to the kids they once mentored.

Anyway, this last point is kind of a tangent, but I love CEM’s relationship and I think it is essential to grasp the familial nature of it to understand their characters. Em and Merc are literally Cinder’s child selves. They are the found family that she needs, but because she is still stuck in her childhood she is unable to truly take care of them and help them as she could. This is tragic because clearly she could heal through healing them, but she can’t see it and spirals more and more.

In short, these are just better explanations of what child-coding and save the cat mean. That said, it is not that lacking any of them means certain death for the character. Similarly, having them does not necessarily mean a character will survive. However, in coming of ages stories, like RWBY is, it is common to give Save the Cats moments to a villain you wanna redeem/save and to have child-coded characters survive, while some (not all) adult characters die.

I will answer your other answers later on.

[ofstormsandfire]

Blorbo ask meme hollow knight?

blorbo: hornet :) no I am not going insane waiting for silksong :) why do you ask :)

skrunkly: ghost! they are So shaped and I care them.

scrimblo bimblo: bretta. on the one hand, yes, she's technically writing rpf and that's a little bit weird as hell. on the other hand, I genuinely do not think she has anything else to write fanfiction about, and I'm always partial to writers, and I think she should get a nice girlfriend.

glup shitto: XEROOOOO listen I have so many feelings about this nail man. he was purposefully erased and,,, god,,,,,

poor little meow meow: radiance. I did not write a wholeass redemption arc for her for her not to be considered my poor little meow meow. I also can't help but feel that calling her that would probably get me blasted into oblivion but it would be worth it

horse plinko: zote. I just don't like him. stinky bastard bug.

eeby deeby: pale king. zero hesitation. soul master with even less hesitation but I think the dead baby pit outweighs soul sanctum slightly because mr. dead baby pit let soul sanctum happen

[evilwickedme]

ok so to sum up my feelings for leverage: redemption, season 1(a): (long post warning, there’s a tl;dr at the end)

I knew that Hardison wouldn’t be in most of the season due to Aldis Hodge being a busy bee nowadays, but I didn’t realize that meant he’d only be around for the first two episodes. He was sorely missed, not only because of my attachment to him, but also because he’s usually the grounding factor in the group dynamic, and his role as info guy and tech guy was split evenly between two characters who had their own issues.

That said, Hardison is absolutely a highlight of the two episodes he’s in. his speech about redemption was everything I could’ve hoped for (plus, more evidence for the Jewish!Hardison pile...). I wish we’d gotten to see more of his dynamic with Breanna because what we saw was funny and sweet and we don’t generally get to see Hardison taking care of somebody who so desperately needs taking care of. I hope that Aldis Hodge is around for more episodes in 1(b), because what we’re left with feels a little hollow.

Sticking to original leverage characters for now, for the most part the leverage crew still felt true to the original series as characters, even if the show itself was a little bit confused at times. The actors understand their characters and embody them so well that I think one could give them the trashiest script ever and they’d still sell it. Sophie is a particular focus in 1(a) because of Nate’s death, and she’s particularly well written as a result.

That said, I’m super bitter that we saw little to no mastermind!Parker. Parker’s character being given the mastermind role was a big deal and it feels like they’re walking it back because they feel uncomfortable with it. It is eventually given an in-text excuse, but literally in the last episode, and it was not a particularly convincing reason, and in fact contradicted moments from previous episodes (Sophie leaving for a client meeting and ignoring Parker in ep3 comes to mind). It’s frustrating, it makes the end of the original leverage feel pointless, and letting Parker make a decision once in a while is not the same thing at all. The original series repeatedly showed us that while everyone in the team had their strengths, Parker works problems and solves them in unique, interesting ways, and other characters’ days in the limelight tended to be comedic or even failures. It’s a broken promise, and a pretty major broken promise at that.

On a more positive note, Parker’s dynamic with literally everyone was fantastic. She’s possibly the best written character this season. They’ve taken the autism out of the subtext and into the text (although obviously still undiagnosed), and given her coping mechanisms that were taken seriously in the text even when they were played for laughs, which I appreciated. Her attempts to mentor Breanna were sweet, her friendship with Sophie was electric and at times (CRIMES) hilarious, and as usual, she has a fantastic dynamic with Eliot that makes my heart burst. If you don’t think they’re romantically involved, at least acknowledge there’s a life partnership here. They’ve spent the last decade together.

(We’ll get to Harry.)

Eliot isn’t given much arc-wise, which is frustrating since he’s my favorite. He’s being presented as the goal at the end of a redemption arc, ie to keep working at it every day until your soul heals or whatever, and it doesn’t reflect the message they’re trying to convey via Hardison’s speech and our two new characters. He’s got his moments, but I think they under utilized his potential.

Breanna!!! Breanna’s my new favorite, except for Eliot. She’s hilarious, she’s insecure, she’s nerdy and excited in a way that’s similar to Hardison but still distinct in its inherent teenage-girl-ness and I LOVE IT. Unlike the previous series, where Hardison’s “age of the geek” was often a joke played on Hardison, we’re at the point where Eliot and Parker are both right there with him, and so they accept and even appreciate Breanna’s nerdiness. Also, canon gay character? In YOUR Leverage? It’s more likely than you think.

(No, I never thought they’d make ot3 canon on screen. I hoped, but I didn’t think it would actually happen.)

I think Breanna’s the character that will be the most interesting to see grow. She’s got a lot of potential and a list of crimes a mile long (or more). I adore her with all my heart. I want to see her tiktok account.

Harry. Oh, Harry.

It took me a while, but I do like Harry. It took a while, because the narrative positioned him at the same level as Nate back in episode 1 of original Leverage. But in episode 1 we didn’t know the other characters. We had Nate as the POV character, and so we cared about him because we were seeing the world through his eyes. (This is TV Studies 101. I know this, because I took TV Studies 101 in 2019.) In Leverage: Redemption, we no longer have a POV character, for several reasons:

Nate, previously the POV character, is dead.

As it is, by mid-season 3 of leverage Nate was no longer a POV character. This is, coincidentally, the point where the leverage writers realized they had four other characters in the main cast they could do something with, and in-universe, Nate accepted that he was a thief, not a special Good Man.

Sophie is sort of a POV character for the first episode of the revival, but only for the first few minutes. Afterwards, the series settles into the groove of seasons 3-5, i.e., the entire crew is our POV. We know our crew, and we love them as is.

Narratively, however, Redemption insists on positing Harry as the POV character, because it is his redemption we are pursuing most vehemently. And I think they really relied on us already knowing the actor - I’ve never seen him in anything before, so to me he was a completely fresh face and they put almost no effort into selling him to me. Beyond being competent and consistently mildly baffled by the antics of the leverage crew, I honestly don’t know who this man is by the end of EIGHT episodes with him. I have a much better handle on Breanna by the end of 1(a), and I can tell you I knew all five of the original leverage crew better by the end of the first episode of the original series than I do Harry. What’s the name of his daughter, John Rogers. Is he still married. How old is the daughter. Why is none of this worth mentioning. Give him a sense of humor that isn’t reacting to other people’s shenanigans. I’m so frustrated. It’s bad writing.

I did manage to grow to like Harry by the end, but I’m pretty sure this is down to Noah Wyle’s charismatic portrayal of an under-developed character, at least partially. And I never stopped being frustrated at not knowing who this man is at all.

The two highlights of the season are undoubtedly episodes five and six. Episode five was the first time I felt like the episode was more than a collection of good moments between the main cast and mediocre moments between the main cast and also the main plot. The issues with pacing and tone that I suffered through for most of the season were mostly non-existent in ep5 and 6, and at least in episode 5 I attribute that to the pared down cast. They had time to focus not only on our actual characters - Sophie, Parker, Breanna - but also on the case. This is the only client from 1(a) I am going to remember next week without googling it first, mark my words.

Episode six worked for the exact opposite reason - it completely disregarded the client and plot and immersed itself in the characters. Breanna gets a moment to shine, but everybody else gets their bits and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the script that was most fun to write. The characters felt natural, real, and captured the found-family dynamic that’s been missing all season for the first time.

While episode 2 is the weakest episode, I don’t actually have much to say about it. I am disappointed in episode 8. For a mid-season finale, I really expected them to do something. Instead, it was an episode about Nate Ford that copped out of being about Nate Ford (both with fake-Nate and with the new version of him being relayed to us). I would have told the writers to give that energy back to episode 1 and write an episode that’s about anybody who isn’t Harry, oh my God. I know I said I grew to like him but so many episodes were about Harry. He’s the newbie! Why didn’t Hardison get an episode that was actually about him, considering he was only around for two episodes? Why does Eliot have to be the butt of the joke when the theme of the series should directly tie back to him in a much more meaningful way? The last episode parodies their own tagline by saying Eliot isn’t just a hitter, but it deftly avoids noticing that they’ve turned him into nothing more than very muscly comic relief, including in that very episode!

Also, I hated the Marshal. Eliot actively looked uncomfortable around her.

tl;dr

The season took a while, that’s definitely true. But it did find its footing eventually, and by the halfway mark of 1(a) it finally felt cohesive again. The characters were played fantastically even when they weren’t well-written, and if nothing else, the humor landed every time. It still has its kinks and problems to work out, but if you look at it as a brand new show rather than a continuation of one that went off the air over eight years ago, it’s actually doing rather well. I’m choosing to judge it in both lights - according to its own standards, it establishes its identity in episode five; according to Leverage standards, it establishes its connection to its roots in episode six. Either way, I thoroughly enjoyed 1(a), and continue to have high hopes for 1(b).

fic writing will commence in three, two, one...

[ljf613]

Why Azula Doesn’t Need a “Redemption”

I recently read this fabulous meta by @deliciousmeta​​ about some of the issues with saying that Azula needs a “redemption,” and I completely agree and wanted to expound on it. 

The term redemption arc is so ubiquitous in fandom, especially when talking about Azula, and I hate it, but I can’t get away from it. If I want people to recognize that what I write is in any way about understanding or humanizing Azula, let alone about working on her healing or actively trying to do better, I have to tag it with “Azula Redemption,” or people won’t know what I’m talking about.

So let’s talk a little more about the concept of “redemption” within the Avatar world. 

The show does use the term redemption, particularly with Zuko and the Fire Nation, but it’s not talking about some arbitrary concept of “good person” vs “bad person.” No, words like “redemption” and “restoration” are specifically used regarding one thing: honor. 

Before we go any further, let’s define our terms: 

[ID: Dictionary definition of the word “Redemption”: Noun 1. the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil. 2. the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt. End ID] 

Redemption has two separate meanings. The first is about being saved from sin/evil, and @deliciousmeta​​​ already went into many of the issues with this, but I’ll add one more point: it’s passive. There’s a person being saved, and another person doing the saving-- and the show itself rejects this. Iroh, no matter how hard he tries, can’t save Zuko. Zuko has to make his own decision to leave on his own terms. 

The second definition is the one that’s important right now-- regaining something lost. Zuko (and the Fire Nation) has (or at least, believes he has) lost his honor, and he wants it back. 

(Side note: That idea of reclamation/repossession is also something to consider when talking about Aang/the Air Nomads, the Water Tribes, and the Earth Kingdom regaining everything they’ve lost in the war. (I might discuss that in another post.) Redemption isn’t generally the word you hear in regards to victims, but it does apply.) 

[ID: Dictionary definition of the word “Honor”: Noun 1. high respect; great esteem. 2. adherence to what is right or to a conventional standard of conduct. Verb 1. regard with great respect. 2. fulfil (an obligation) or keep (an agreement). End ID]

From Zuko’s very introduction, we see that he does honor his word, even when his opponents don’t. He told Aang he would leave the Water Tribe village in peace, and he kept his word, even when Aang did not. 

Zuko’s obsession with redeeming his honor (again, that second definiton of redemption) is because he has conflated the two meanings of “honor”; he lost his esteem (read: privilege), and he thinks that somehow means he’s lost his integrity. In his obsession with regaining the first, he loses the second. This culminates in “The Crossroads of Destiny.” When he turns his back on Iroh in Ba Sing Se, he has broken the trust Iroh had in him-- he’s dishonored himself. 

(Which, in a sense, is a microcosm for how the Fire Nation lost their honor-- they broke the trust all four of the nations had for each other.) 

When he returns to the Fire Nation, he has what he thinks he wanted-- esteem and respect (read: his father’s “love”). But it’s a hollow shell of what it should be. He’s always been a person of integrity-- the person who’s being honored isn’t him. (Or, at least, it isn’t who he wants to be.) 

And so this time, he rejects that first definition of honor. In essence, he says that respect is useless if the person’s actions aren’t deserving of respect. 

In doing so, he takes back-- he redeems-- his real honor. 

That’s what Zuko’s redemption arc is about. It’s not about “becoming a good person” or “being saved from evil,” it’s about taking back what he already had. 

So I have no problem with calling Zuko’s story a redemption arc, because that’s what it is: a tale of a boy, and eventually, a nation, taking back what they’ve lost-- their honor-- through his own hands. 

Any narrative about Azula, however, can’t be about that. 

There are two reasons for this. 

First off, Azula herself doesn’t care about honor. Unlike Zuko, her honor has never been something she valued. In “The Chase,” she rejects the very notion of honor when, after claiming that “a princess surrenders with honor,” she breaks her word. For Zuko, his honor is an integral part of his value system and who he is, but Azula has never even entertained the question-- if it doesn’t help her acheive her goals, it’s worthless.

Second, as I’ve mentioned, true redemption is about regaining something that’s been lost. What does Azula have to regain? Azula’s drive has always been about getting things she doesn’t have. (See Mirror & Misdirection - The Distortions of the Mirror Scene from @cobra-diamond​​ for more on Azula’s goals and motivations.) 

And the most of the things she’s lost are things she can’t get back: 

Her relationships with Mai and Ty Lee were flawed from the beginning. Even if she does build new ones with them, they can’t be the same. Her relationship with Zuko might not have started wrong, but it’s become so warped and deformed, I don’t think either of them could get it back to the way it was-- nor should they. Most people have a different type of relationship with their siblings as adults than they did when they were children, and that’s okay. Her relationship with her mother is fractured and messy-- even if they did want to make up, it would, again, have to be a different kind of relationship. (And if you’ve been following me for any period of time, you also know my feelings on her relationship with Lu Ten, which, obviously, she can’t get back.) 

Anything else-- her relationship with Ozai, her title and status, and that expectation of being a perfect princess-- are things she probably shouldn’t get back, because they would do more harm than good. 

So no, an Azula story would not-- could not-- be about redemption. 

Ideally, a narrative focusing on Azula would focus on two things: healing and atonement. 

[ID: Dictionary definition of the word “Healing”: Noun the process of making or becoming sound or healthy again. Adjective tending to heal; therapeutic. End ID]

[ID: Dictionary definition of the word “Atonement”: Noun 1. reparation for a wrong or injury. 2. (in religious contexts) reparation or expiation for sin. End ID] 

(Read @deliciousmeta​​​‘s take on the difference between “redemption” and “atonement.” In short, redemption is about “being saved” from “inherent badness,” while atonement is about taking responsibility for your actions and doing the best you can to try and fix the wrongs you’ve done.) 

At the end of ATLA, Azula has what, in layman’s terms, is commonly referred to as a mental (or nervous) breakdown. I’ve seen arguments about how that “proves” she’s a “horrible person” (coming back to OP’s argument about our obsession with categorizing people as “good” or “bad”), and I’ve seen competing arguments calling this ableist and furthering the stigmatization of mental illness. 

I’ve talked about nervous breakdowns before, but here’s the gist: they are a body’s way of crying out for help. In real life, mental breakdowns are meant to be followed with the sick person (because mental illness is just as much an illness as cancer or sickle-cell anemia) actually getting the help they need. 

What Azula needs is help-- preferably from an adult who hasn’t been personally affected by her actions, and who she doesn’t have pre-existing negative feelings about. She needs to be willing to accept that help (because you cannot help someone who refuses to be helped). And she needs to come to the realization that she has made mistakes-- that her actions have hurt people. 

Only then will she be able to start making atonement for her actions. 

What would that look like? I’m not sure, but I’ve got some ideas...... 

(No, I’m not going to tell you what they are, I have to leave some surprises for my future fics!) 

[fandom-thingies]

Worth a Try

Eret sits alone on the day L’manburg is reclaimed.

Not that they didn’t help with taking it back- of course they did, right? They have a lot to atone for, and they’d been waiting, waiting, waiting for an opportunity to take back a few of their sins.

So they did help take it back, stood atop a tower firing down at Dream and his allies, watched Schlatt’s infamously poor health come back to bite him in the most final way…

But they don’t stick around long, after that. They don’t stay for the presidential game of hot potato, the founders of the nation passing its ownership back and forth. 

They would have, normally, but.

Eret has worked with Dream, in the past. Everyone loves to remind them of it, and they often do so themselves, but something oft forgotten is that Eret knows Dream, knows the obsession he has with ending L’manburg, knows the methods he’s most fond of, that game of pawns and traitors he excels at so notoriously.

And Eret knows Dream gave Wilbur 11 stacks of TNT.

Now, supposedly it’s all gone. Various people have looked around and none have been able to find a trace of it, but Eret knows Wilbur, knows the message he wants to send, and before the battle, they checked somewhere no one else did.

Not many people know the podium is hollow, so not many people noticed when it stopped echoing if you hit it and started making a dull thud sound instead.

Eret notices a lot of things.

While Wilbur is taking his place on stage, Eret goes around the hill, digging toward the podium they’ve guessed to be filled full with TNT.

It takes them a while, but when they find it…

There’s so much.

The smell of sulfur is overwhelming, and they take a moment to pull their shirt over their nose before they begin to dig it out.

They don’t get it all, they don’t have time, but they find the blackstone room and the redstone that runs from it and they make dead sure all the explosives near it are broken.

Then, they dig into the room, because why not? Sue them, they’re curious.

What they find is… exactly what they expected and nothing they could have imagined, at the same time.

It’s unassuming, at a glance. Dingy, poorly lit, small.

It’s also a terrifying representation of Wilbur’s mental state, with the anthem scribbled on the wall in the messiest handwriting they’ve ever seen from the former president, who’s usually so neat and tidy.

There’s no button, which is odd. Perhaps he means to place it himself?

(Eret has no illusions he’s changed his mind. As they said, they’ve worked with Dream before. If he hasn’t extracted some promise from Wilbur to blow it all sky high no matter what, they’ll steal their crown from George and eat it.)

They stand for a moment, just taking in the place, before they hear blocks breaking from the passageway out and realize just how close they’ve cut it.

Hurriedly, they block up the hole they’d used to enter, hoping Wilbur won’t realize they’ve destroyed the TNT.

(Hoping he’s too distracted by his own thoughts to hear them close it)

Only moments after the hole is shut, he comes into view, breaking the dirt blocks that hide this chamber from sight. 

The day outside is far brighter than the hidden room, and the contrast makes it so all Eret can see of Wilbur is a dark silhouette haloed by the clear blue sky.

He doesn’t seem to see them at first, coming almost halfway down the passage before he stops, noticing their presence.

“Eret.” His voice is as calm as it always is, when he says it, but they can tell he’s surprised.

“Wilbur.” They greet in response.

“I didn’t expect to find you here. Come to blow it up yourself?” Eret sighs. The hostility in his voice is... not undeserved.

“Not quite.”

“Still trying for your redemption arc, then?” There’s venom in his tone.

“...as much as I can, yes.”

Wilbur deflates, and it seems like the anger in him has fled as quickly as it entered.

“Why are you doing this, Eret?”

The answer to that is… complicated. There are a lot of reasons. They don’t want L’manburg blown up, for one. It’s suffered rather enough, especially with some of Schlatt’s alterations. They also don’t see a better way to try and make up for what they’ve done than stopping someone else from doing the same, but neither of those are really why. The real reason, the truth of why they’ve spent days knocking on hollow objects and digging random holes in the ground until they finally found the bombs?

“I know better than anyone how much doing this will destroy you.” They say.

And that’s the truth of it, isn’t it? The unvarnished fact of the matter is there’s no moral motivation here, as much as they’d like to pretend. They just don’t want anyone else to feel the guilt they’ve felt, and maybe there’s a selfishness in that, but maybe it’s important, to acknowledge your mistakes and do what you can to stop others from making them.

Wilbur laughs, and there’s no humor in it.

“Of course that would be your reasoning,” and the anger in his voice is back, and Eret is preparing to respond, and Wilbur gives them no chance to before he continues. 

“Maybe I’m already destroyed, huh? Maybe I’ve already seen too much of what the world can offer to recover from it!” He swings a hand out wide, indicating the writing on the wall in an aggressive motion that makes Eret shrink back.

“I wrote a whole fucking song for this place, Eret! You were there, you know I did, you were in both versions of the damn thing, and what the fuck is left?” Wilbur inhales, before continuing in a softer tone, “What the fuck is left of it, Eret? I built L’manburg to be special, to be free from tyranny, and look what’s it’s become.”

“Schlatt’s dead, though. He can’t stop you from building it back up.” They counter, but Wilbur doesn’t falter.

“Yeah, and? We violently deposed him, Eret. He had a heart attack sure, but this was a coup through and through. We killed the rightful president of L’manburg. We’ve made ourselves just as bad as him!” 

...no?

No, they’re pretty sure that’s not how that works.

“Isn’t it the right of the people to rebel against rulers who treat them poorly? Schlatt had terrible policies, exiled his political opponents, taxed his citizens into starvation, and destroyed historic monuments,” they adjust their glasses slightly. “Didn’t he kind of have it coming?”

Wilbur stops. Blinks.

Eret suspects he’s never thought of it that way, before.

“But we still killed him. That’s still wrong.” He says, but he sounds... uncertain, now. Off balance.

“Well, we would have. He died before we could.”

“That doesn’t change the intent.”

“Fair enough.”

Eret pauses to collect their thoughts in an orderly manner.

“I still don’t really think it would have been wrong, though. Not any more than it would have been wrong if you’d killed me.”

Wilbur snorts, and says, “Just because you’re drowning in self loathing doesn’t mean you get to snap me out of my self destructive spiral. I’ve been doing just fine with it on my own, thanks.”

Sure he has.

They know terrible coping mechanisms when they see them, is all Eret is saying here.

He must see something of their thoughts in their face, because he continues almost immediately.

“You haven’t got any right to talk, anyway, mr. ‘it was never meant to be’.”

Ah. Hm. He’s got a point there.

Though, their own experience with this is what prompted them to confront him in the first place, so.

“I was wrong, when I said that. I was wrong, and you proved me wrong.”

They mean it, too. They’d been blind when they’d said those words, trying to justify what they were doing to themself by saying the revolution would never have succeeded anyway, and they’d been so fucking stupid.

Wilbur just laughs, though. He laughs for a while.

“You really don’t get it, do you, Eret? You were right, then! You were fucking right! None of this was ever going to work, not with Dream against us! He was always going to find a way to throw a wrench in the gears, and maybe Schlatt got to it first, but there’s no happy ending for this place!” He steps forward, and they realize how close he is to them. “There’s no way out, here! I’m going to press the button, Technoblade is going to summon withers because he’s the goddamn traitor, and Dream’s just going to sit back and watch and be just as untouchable as he always is.”

Wilbur takes another step closer to them, laying a hand on their shoulder, and though he’s only barely taller than them, those two inches feel like two miles, with the way he looms.

“I’ve been to this room, over and over again! Seven or eight times, I’ve been here, staring at this fucking wall and the fucking button, and I-!” He runs his free hand roughly over his face, and Eret sees something suspiciously like tears in his eyes.

“I can’t do this, Eret. I’ve given so much for this country, everyone has, and there’s just nothing left. I’m so tired, Eret. I’ve lost so much of myself to this.”

Eret raises their hand slowly, telegraphing the motions so Wilbur can pull back if he wants, and puts it over the one he’s placed on their shoulder.

They take a step and they’re basically touching him, and carefully, carefully, they reach their other arm around him until they’re embracing.

It’s not quite a hug, really. The position is a bit too awkward, especially with both of them barely fitting in the tiny room, but it’s close.

Wilbur stays tense, but he doesn’t push them away, doesn’t tell them to let go.

They hope it helps him, hope they’re right and he needs as much as it seems, and the evidence doesn’t seem to contradict that hypothesis.

It’s good, that this has worked. Good that they were able to convince him, to make him realize this isn’t the answer.

Click.

A moment of silence.

Wilbur laughs, a real laugh, not a pale imitation fed by anger and self loathing, and keeps laughing for nearly a full minute before he regains his composure.

“Oh, Eret,  you bastard.” He says, and they can hear the smile in his voice. “You broke the redstone, you glorious motherfucker.”

It’s then that Eret realizes what just happened.

Wilbur had used the hug as a cover to place a button on the wall and press it, not realizing all the TNT near the room was safely in their inventory.

That fucking prick.

Eret laughs then, too, fueled half by the sheer fear of realizing Wilbur actually did it, actually pressed the button, and it was only their having broken it that stopped L’manburg being blown up again, but the laugh is also coming from the desperate, desperate relief they feel because even if they didn’t succeed in convincing him, even if they didn’t change his mind, they still stopped him from making their mistake.

“Why even try to talk me out of it, if you already made it so I couldn’t?” He asks, bemused.

“I can’t exactly stop you from getting more TNT and trying again, can I?”

Wilbur tenses against them, before they continue.

“Please don’t, Wilbur. I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish with it, but… give yourself a chance to heal, please. Schlatt is dead, and even if you’re right, and Technoblade is the traitor, no one is going to let him destroy this. Even if he breaks every block of this nation, we’ll put it back, because this place has never been the builds, or the podium, or the walls,”

“L’manburg is the people, and we’re not going anywhere,”

[bloody-wonder]

Hopefully you're still taking asks lol, I believe in captive prince that Laurent has Damen raped at one point and that it's not ever really resolved? Which leads to the romance seeming unrealistic, correct me if I'm wrong, the author tried to resolve this problem in the 4th book but it wasnt satisfactory? What, in your opinion, made the attempt in the 4th book not convincing? And what do you think would have been a better way to try and have them resolve this issue?

*i’m posting this in the main tag bc i want to engage more with the capri fandom and find mutuals. if you don’t want to see these characters criticized and discussed do yourself a favor and don’t read this

how can you “resolve” rape? i don’t think there is a way for a character who committed it to come back from that in a way acceptable to all readers. no matter how much they repent, develop and atone for their actions they will still remain a person who commited rape. so the real question is not whether it can be resolved and how, but whether it can be forgiven (or whether you can still appreciate this character despite it) - and that is the question every reader has to answer for themselves and there are no wrong or right answers. obviously lots of readers sympathize with laurent at the end of the story and choose, consciously or not, to forgive what he did in book one. many others just can’t look past what he did and so the grand romantic ending rings hollow to them bc they see it as a victim getting together with their abuser. 

on damen’s part pacat consistently chose the path of forgiveness: he is somewhat mad at laurent in the beginning but becomes gradually less so as he gets to know him better and by the time he knows he’s in love with him forgiveness isn’t even a question - it already happened behind the scenes. that is probably one of the main differences between laurent and damen: while laurent is someone whose entire personality, motivation and character arc are founded on holding a grudge and never letting go, for damen forgiveness occurs just naturally as if offence and trauma were a bruise gradually fading without leaving any mark. 

this difference and how it plays out in the last book is actually something that made the ending feel unsatisfying for me - not the fact that the rape was “not resolved”. in the first half of kings rising laurent has to confront his own cognitive dissonance about having fallen in love with his nemesis and he indeed has lots of inner turmoil until he just doesn’t. obviously in order for the romance to work he had to let go of his hatred for “damianos the princekiller” but for such a resentful unforgiving character something had to happen in order to make this change of heart look plausible and authentic. i’m not a writer so i have no idea what that should’ve been exactly, but it should’ve definitely been something that ties in with both of their character arcs. what we had instead was a freaking baby - a bad plot device if i ever saw one. as for damen, the romance plot resolution on his part was much more consequential than on laurent’s - but only bc pacat chose to write no inner conflict for him. damen is not conflicted about falling in love with laurent - at least not to the extent you’d expect from a person who went through everything laurent did to damen. that is a choice which is definitely in character for his personality and is realistic insofar as there are lots of people who forget and forgive rather quickly, but which can also be perceived as problematic or simply narratively unsatisfying. as for the former i personally don’t think that capri romanticizes abuse - all of it, including rape, is definitely framed as something bad - and as for the latter, i have to agree that being not mad enough at laurent definitely makes damen a less interesting character. the reason why i love dark enemies to lovers stories like capri is bc i’m curious about how the characters will resolve what seems to be an insurmountable conflict (”you killed my beloved brother which ruined my life” - “you had me raped”) - so i lose interest when there’s no conflict to resolve or when it just goes away bc characters are in love now or bc they “have it in their heart to forgive” or something. however, i admit that i don’t know which way of resolution would be more satisfying.

laurent is also made to atone for his actions and redeem himself in the form of grand and stupid self-sacrifice which is a culmination of his personality gradually changing to being nice and companionable (and stupid) throughout the last book. other than that, in the epilogue short story (the summer palace) he is shown to regret his past actions towards damen to which damen says something like “we both did bad things but it doesn’t matter now cause we’re together and we know we won’t do them again”. these are pacat’s attempts at laurent’s redemption arc which ring hollow to some readers - either bc they are perceived as “not enough” or as “not necessary”. i suppose those in the first camp either deem laurent irredeemable period or they think that he should’ve done something more convincing or apologized (idk how that would work but apparently it’s very important for some people to hear a verbal apology even if it doesn’t change anything). as you can guess, i’m in the second camp - i think that having laurent suddenly become reckless in attempts to redeem himself is a disservice to his character arc and frankly speaking not necessary, seeing as damen has forgiven him regardless.   

ultimately, i’m a character-driven reader who is also aroace so when i pick up a romance i’m interested in who the characters are, why they are drawn to each other and how they overcome the obstacles to their relationship which is why i am left dissatisfied if in order for romance to be endgame the characters sacrifice who they are, or if i don’t understand why they like each other or if the obstacles just fall down when needed. i feel like with capri everything was very engaging and complex for 2,5 books (which really makes this series stand out from among similar dark romances) but in the last half of book 3 things go awry. “rape not being resolved” is just a small part of that.

[kallypsowrites]

Ruin and Rising Thoughts

And so we come to the end of the journey. I’m going to give my thoughts on this third book and then my thoughts on the series as a whole since this is the end.

First off, the pacing of this one was WAY better than Siege and Storm. I was never bored. It kept me invested. I think occasionally she went too heavy on occasionally meaningless cliffhangers, but that’s a minor thing. This book is much more like Shadow and Bone in terms of pacing and its great.

I like the band of good guy characters. The little found family. Not all of the side characters were given much characterization, but those who did were great. Zoya, Genya, David, Tamar, Tolya--they all bounced off of each other in interesting ways. They were so different and that made the banter really funny. 

I love Nikolai with all my heart and soul. He is a good boy and it was hard/excellent to see him suffer. Hard because, my poor baby, good because I love lowest points for confident characters. Regardless, he means the world.

Mal, to give credit, very rarely frustrated me in this book. He only had a few pieces of dialogue that got under my skin but for the most point he was supportive, said the right things, heroic etc. I wish this had come earlier in the series because its hard to switch to loving a character when you’ve spent the first two books being angry at him. But I can’t complain about him too much. The twist I can complain about, but we’ll get to that in a second.

Alina. My sunshine girl. She’s so powerful in this book. Owning her abilities. Really coming into her own. I love her and I’ll fight anyone in the book who implies she might become evil with power because that’s a dumb. fucking. trope. I’m not saying there’s not a path where Alina couldn’t go dark. hell I’d be very interested to write a story where she’s a little darker. But as she was in this, she didn’t deserve that speculation. She’s the best.

The Darkling. Aleksander. He both managed to be the most sinister and the most human in this book. So many soft moments but so many terrifying moments. I love his complicated messed up self and I was sad to see him die though I knew it needed to happen. If he was going to have a redemption arc, it needed to start in book 2 and the ending of that made clear this was going to be a tragic finish, so I accepted that.

Alina and the Darkling were on FIRE this book. Every scene full of tension. Every scene full of that push and pull. So much good dialogue and yet also the most vulnerability between them. There is nothing better than a couple that starts out with a power in difference that gradually changes to equals. The FLAVOR. He mourns the loss of her powers and even after killing him, she cries and she cares and she mourns him. Fuck me UP.

Now for the things I didn’t like.

The additional world building in this was kind of a mess. The Morozova backstory + the living amplifiers and what it meant and Mal being the amplifier. It felt rushed and clumsy and not natural. The rewriting of the mercy vs murder thing for claiming amplifiers felt like a cop out and then not killing Mal was an additional cop out.

As far as the endgame ship, its not that I didn’t think Leigh wrote it well at many points. Their culminating love scene was good on an objective level. And I think at the end of the day, I just have different taste in ships and stories because I wasn’t invested. I COULDN’T be invested, next to the other two ships I was given. I really do think it would have been more interesting if both mal and the Darkling died and Alina was left to pick up the pieces with Nikolai with a friendship love between them that could grow into more. Then at least I could have seen my girl in power.

Cause goddamn it I WANTED power for Alina. And I know people could make the argument that SHE didn’t want it but she did. Giving up her power wasn’t even a choice she got to make. It just happened. And personally I just want more narratives where strong female characters get to keep their magic powers and their power in society. We don’t get enough of it and so many times I see them go to ‘the simple life’. It’s not that simple life isn’t a valid need. But it didn’t feel like a proper culmination of her arc and it left things feeling hollow.

Much as I am a Darklina, I’m not saying she should have ended up with the Darkling. Not in this story at least. If I were going to have them end up together, it would require a very different story starting from the beginning of book two. It wouldn’t have worked to redeem him at the end of book 3. Leigh set it up that it had to end that way. And maybe a part of me wishes for an alternative story. Which, you know, is why I’m going to write a fanfic, but that’s for later.

I don’t think the series capitalizes fully on some of its themes. Especially the idea of the Grisha being oppressed and having to struggle to survive and the reasons behind why the Darkling does what he does. it’s brushed on. Discussed a bit. But it never REALLY delves which is a shame because that’s an interesting theme.

At the end of the day, this series has a lot of good moments, a lot of interesting themes. A lot of characters I love and adore. But I think the parts are stronger than the whole. Unlike Six of Crows which I think really sticks the landing on all fronts, this one stumbles a bit. But I still like it and I have a lot of hope for the show.

But I hope you all enjoyed this long liveblogging process. Feel free to share your thoughts here or via ask as well. i love chatting about the series since Shadow and Bone is my whole personality now!

[samurithecat]

This is originally a post I made on my blog but I wanted to hear your thoughts on it so I decided why not send it in an ask. Hope your doing well.

I believe with all my heart that Bryke are a cancer to Avatar.

They've done irreparable damage to the franchise, are fake af, are the reason we don't have Book 4 of ATLA and why the characters in Book 3 are so OOC.

Bryke assassinated the characters of Katara, Korra, Mako, Asami, Kuvira, Toph, and Ursa. Also the reason we don't have an Azula Redemption Arc (which we would've gotten in Book 4 with Zuko in the role of Iroh)

They continue to manipulate people with Korrasami and LGBT pandering for undeserved praise and most importantly to them that sweet cash with no signs of ever stopping (which is evident when you see how many characters they've made into token lgbt rep such as Kyoshi and Kya)

Do you think that if Aaron & Elizabeth Ehasz handled the Avatar Franchise that it would be saved from Bryke?

A good example is The Dragon Prince which is handled by The Ehasz. It's brilliant and it hasn't even begun to peak in terms of storytelling and potential which makes me hype and feel that childlike excitement that ATLA gave me as a child.It's the closest thing to Avatar's Living Legacy imo.

It has the spirit of Avatar while still being beautiful on its own.

TLOK is a hollow, terribly handled, absolutely awful show but it could've easily been a masterfully done show (I wanted to love it sooo much it killed me how far it fell from grace)

I am doing well, thank you.

I actually made a video on youtube about my thoughts for the next potential new avatar series that also showcases my experience with the series and I made a good point that I wish Aaron Ehasz had some involvement with Korra and try to promote The Dragon Prince.

I agree that Bryke has done damage to the franchise but they also created said franchise, which is why my last point in that video is that even if they come up with great concepts for the potential new series, they will need better writers for the series to make it good and maybe make them have open minds when it comes to shipping like 'don't make fans feel bad for not shipping Canon ships' and 'I know you guys would like this ship to be Canon but character development on a personal level needs to happen first.'

Also, I think I saw it in a SDCC recording that is lost to time now, but I remember something about how they would have brought up a reunion between Zuko and his mother in the finale, but one of the two creators of Bryke (Micheal Dante DiMartino (the one who makes us believe that Aang is his insert character because they're both bald)) decided to not include that, which not only showcases that these are two individuals with different ideas for how things go, but makes me wish we got a book 4 for the original series instead of that terrible live action movie I ranted about in my video because why not.

I can't say much about the Kyoshi books since I at least want to read them first (on my TBR pile), but I have boycotted the Legend of Korra comics in a similar way that one of my favorite reviewers boycotts spider man comics (with exceptions to FCBD giveaways). Note that this is due to how I feel like they did LGBT rep badly and their attempt just weaken the impact of how Steven Universe did it which did it right and did it better.

I'm still willing to check out the next series to see if they realize any mistakes they've made but going through it with some salt. Because unlike a certain British author I don't want to talk about too much about, they haven't express qualities of being a terf or something that would justify people canceling them. *knocks on wood*

Not to plug my video for my reply, but I touched upon some of this stuff in my video.

[chattegeorgiana]

It's 2021 & tbh I'm happy to see you still serving the truth. So many ppl hate Sakura it's rlly sad. I see hate for her from NH & SNS mostly about her "forcing" her feelings on others like she herself didnt realize that & was stuck trying the alleviate that be growing stronger as her main plot point. Her loss of development is 99% SP NH agenda. & honestly I still wish Sasuke got w/ NO ONE, not even Naruto. He wasnt good to anyone, even if he respected them. [1]

& in general I hate the idea that Sasuke HAD to end up w/ someone romantically to try find happiness & that person should have been Naruto/Sakura/etc. bc he COULD had a happy, content, redemption arc w/o a romantic partner. Not everything great in this world is driven by romantic companionship & Sasuke is honestly not cut out for it. I wish he had platonic healing & mending arcs, not this focus on finding the "right one" to bed with.

I will go down in my grave wishing Sasuke could be aromantic/asexual representation in a positive redemption arc of him making amends & fixing bonds w/o needing the "oh so powerful & miraculous" powers of romantic fixation.

__________________________________________________________

Well my parents taught me that a lie has short legs and it won’t last for long. And all you do is deceive yourself with lying so I took that lesson to the very heart through my upbringing and tried to stay as real as I can be. 

I’m the type of person who prefers a hard truth over a sweet lie any day. I have ruined relationships with people because of this way of being. Because I met people in my life that preferred to be sweet talked than told the cold truth.

I am not like that, so yeah.

Now, as for the Sakura hate... well, idk but I’ve also noticed a change in fandom support. Yes, she is still hated but the support for her grew over the years. I’m telling you, it’s one of the things I noticed from the very beginning as I came back to the fandom. 

But as I said in a thread on Twitter of mine, while I loved seeing that support, there are two factors that sadden me. 

1. The love is directed at Sakura Uchiha, not Sakura Haruno and 

 2. The fandom as a whole has become a lot similar to the other side of the fandom that used to bully us Sakura fans back in the day.

Of course, I am talking general aspects, I am sure that there are some particularities here and there. But sadly that's the truth. Which made me think about the following things. Are people really liking Sakura Haruno or Sakura Uchiha?

Because it makes me wonder... where was this love back when Sakura was getting her heroine status ripped? Where was it? Are you loving Sakura now just because she's married into the Uchiha clan? Because if so, that's just sad. And shallow. Like ppl used to call her.

And I know it might ruffle some jimmies, but it's the truth. It's an honest and pure observation, after being gone from the fandom for so long. Don't get me wrong, I love that she's loved and supported now, but I can't help but feel that she is because of the wrong reasons.

As for Sasuke, the problem is that the show rewards him with something that Naruto worked for.

We’re never really shown how he is sorry about all the misery he put everyone through.

People say that  ohhh, he was a victim. But wait. So was Naruto. He didn’t turn into that?

Not saying that what he did didn’t have an impact on him, but at the end of the day it boils down to CHOICE. Which Sasuke’s plot even is about. He CHOSE to go to Orochimaru. He CHOSE to kill Itachi. He CHOSE to destroy Konoha. HE CHOSE TO WANT TO KILL THE GOKAGE at the end!

And problem is that the plot doesn’t hold him accountable for that. And I will never shut up about how in other media authors don’t excuse the antagonist for his actions.

See FMA’s Scar. It’s the EXACT same thing. He had his clan murdered. Same thing. Genocide.

But do you see FMA’s plot excusing him for his actions like Naruto does? No, it doesn’t.

And I think that’s the core problem.

Like I always said: I have a love-hate relationship with Sasuke. I love the fact that he challenges the status quo, but I hate how he goes about it and how the story gives him a free pass.

Because it all feels hollow. Not to mention is a dangerous morale to leave behind. Especially to the newer generation of young adults who are shaping their character.

It’s sends a message that if you suffered, you get a free pass to do whatever shit you want cuz at the end of the day you get a free pass without having to work hard to get your atonement. 

That’s why I love the fight in Jujutsu Kaisen between Panda and Mechamaru. Mechamaru tries to victimize himself and find excuses for his actions, but Panda tells it like it is.

Just because you have suffered, it doesn’t give you the right to be an ass, basically.

As for Sakura and her development, yeah. Everyone acts like an ostrich and hide their heads in the ground pretending that it wasn’t because of SP’s favoritism and mischaracterization that Sakura wasn’t hated.

Well it was that exact same thing that made people hate her. Like I know at some point back in the day, SP had to excuse themselves that noo, they don’t hate Sakura.

Yeah right... Cuz that’s why they made an omake where she was jealous of Hinata and how Hinata was stealing the heroine status from her.

They were slowly inoculating this idea into the fandom’s perception.

And I remember how I used to tell people about it back in the day. SSers as well. 

Guys Sakura is gonna be sidelined because of this. She isn’t gonna be the heroine anymore. But did someone listen? Noo, they didn’t.

Because all they saw was the fact that I was a NaruSaku fan and to hell with me. Out of the fear of NaruSaku might potentially win, they preferred to just shut up.

And then guess what? TL came and they called Hinata the heroine of Naruto’s story.

And I was like lol, I goddamn told you so. But for you it was more important for NaruSaku to lose than Sakura keeping her status, right?

As for who Sasuke should’ve ended-up with? Well that is hard to tell. Ofc, personally due to my preference for symbolism and seeing the power balance, it would’ve been nice to see him paired-up with Karin.

Cuz I feel Karin had what it took to shake him up, cuz she didn’t take his BS. But that’s just me and I would’ve totally been okay with an arc like you proposed.

However, yeah, I don’t see him with Sakura at all , I’m sorry. As much as I would’ve liked to.

Hell, I should’ve been happy as a former SS. Yet I wasn’t.

But I guess this boils down to each person’s principles. And I know where mine lie. :)