#ashfur has issues and we all know it

[redwoodcolony]

ive never heard of a clerc before, first thing that comes to mind is a store clerk lmao

Also you're lucky people for some reason arent getting mad at the leader and deputy age gap whenever I play clangen and get an age gap like that I'm yelled at by others to forcibly break them up or change their age in the code ☹️ wish I had your freedom lmaoooo

English isn't my first language so I thought clerc and cleric were basically the same thing because of DnD 😔

Also warning, big block of text incoming, I hope my English is good enough so you can understand everything !!

TW for talking about age gaps

I am very sorry you had such experiences. :( I am actually very anxious whenever I post as I fear I might get yelled at. Actually, posting this very post makes me anxious because I know talking about this subject can be very difficult. I actually rewrote his post like three times already😭

For now thankfully, everyone commenting on this blog has been very nice and kind :)

If it helps here is how I treat age gaps, maybe it can help you solve some of your issues with your public ?

I try my best to have the age gaps as small as possible, I only allow larger age gaps if the cats both meet as full grown adults (which is the case for Silversight and Spectralstar ! I actually have a little backstory post for the founders in preparation !)

I usually let the game do its own thing when it comes to couples, I mainly use my mediators to strenghten family bonds (mainly with adopted kits, because the game doesn't automatically strenghten these relationships)

If the cats are both colony-born, I will break the couple up if the age gap is equal or superior to 6 moons and the younger party is less than 30 moons old. Otherwise it makes me feel uncomfortable

I can make an exception for colony-born cats, as an example if the two cats only start being attracted to each other when the oldest is 90 moons old, and the youngest is 80 moons old ? It feels less weird to me, like they had time to experiment around with their feelings and everything before settling together you know ?

For a colony-born cat and an outsider, I can allow larger age gaps as long as the outsider joined when the colony-cat was already a full grown adult. I usually allow the game to make them an official couple when the younger party is at least 30 moons old. This means that Valleyfall x Oddspots is forbidden !!! It's just a one-sided crush on Oddspots side !

Generally I will ignore a lot of the romantic feelings the cats have for each others in-game if it makes me uncomfortable lol. You don't have to make everything that happens in-game canon in your comic if it makes you feel queasy !

These are just personal rules I give myself, otherwise I feel uncomfortable when playing and drawing my cats !

(The following part is just me rambling about canon Warrior Cats issues and how it influences Clangen and therefore most playthroughs of the game)

I think the age gap issue is due to the general canon Warrior Cats Clan setting, because if you do follow the classic Warrior Code™, you aren't allowed to take in domestic cats and loners; which means you can't add new blood, but it also means that all your cats know each other since birth. :((

In the canon books, it leads to weird ahh relationships like Thornclaw and Blossomfall, Onestar and Whitetail, Ashfur x Squirrelflight or even Brambleclaw x Squirrelflight (we often forget that both Ash and Bramble were warriors when Squirrel was born lol)

The one way the canon books found to remedy to this issue was to add a lot of useless background characters, so that they could reproduce more and regularly, giving a steady flow of new kittens of similar ages to ship with the main characters. This isn't really a good solution in the long run, seeing how incredibly big ThunderClan has become, but it's also not solving the big "everyone is related to each other" issue. :(((

That's why I decided to create the Colony instead of a Clan, so that I can change the rules, so I can integrate outsiders and domestic cats with no issue, introducing both new blood and characters who don't know everyone since they were born :)

I hope this helps you a bit ! :)

[bonefall]

Obviously nobody should be talking poorly about any of Bumble's competitors but it's insane how people voting for Alex are going 'its a CAT'. Like, okay and? Alex Dewitt is ink on paper and we rightfully take issue with her writing to the point of making it a term, so why is it any different when a fictional cat has misogynistic writing? And these are cats with a society, laws, religion, and understanding of (herbal) medicine. They are on par with people. And, it's a YA series. Shouldn't people take the message "fat, abused women dying isn't a problem because they can't contribute ackshually, and if we acknowledge it is how can the goodboy main character stop licking his brother's kitty boots if he's a bad person :(" as a red flag in any series? Let alone one for kids? Like, did everyone outside of the fandom miss the Ashfur defense? Because I was there for it and it was pretty clear a LOT of impressionable children genuinely believed the "he only loved too much" excuse hook line and sinker, and blamed Squirrelflight for everything. There were so many fans genuinely believing that I literally remember seeing hate art and fanfics portraying Squirrelflight as a horrible person just for asking to stay friends. That alone was a testament to how harmful Warriors can be, all because of that one scene of Ashfur being spotted in StarClan.

And with that fiasco in mind, how can anyone trivialize it to Bumble being 'just a cat'? Especially when kids are reading this, and could really take the harmful message Gray Wing the """Wise""" has for them that if you have nothing to contribute to the people you desperately need help from, you are stupid for trying to ask for it. I was lucky to not take any of the really harmful portrayals relationships in Warriors to heart, but not everyone will be. People should support Alex all they want, she deserves it! But downplaying what happened to Bumble because she's a cat is harmful :(

Alex DeWitt's story is so shocking and straightforward that you're able to sum it up with a single word; "Fridging." It's become the touchstone for a wider discussion about misogyny in media because it is so evocative and so easy to explain as an example.

That IS important. That IS a legacy.

But somehow, if you try to explain how EARLY misogyny in media starts, and how pervasive it is even in "less respectable" mediums like YA xenofiction, they lose their fucking minds. People who refuse to read anything at all going, "what could possibly have happened to a cat?"

You know what, though? I'm GLAD Bumble is winning, and I'm proud of this fandom and our campaigning. I think we actually deserve to be a little smug about this after all the damn "justa cat" comments. Bumble doesn't HAVE a legacy. The book doesn't VALUE HER LIFE AT ALL! "It's so sad Clear Sky is going to have his reputation ruined for killing this useless woman. I never liked Bumble anyway, what matters about this is my poor brother :("

The runner of the Canon Misogyny Tournament mentioned in passing how they kinda take issue with the idea of quantifying misogyny based on suffering because of how it oversimplifies the insidious ways it can express in a narrative, and I've thought a lot about that a lot. They're right.

And Alex is THE posterchild of this because her death is ghoulish. We needed what happened to her as a simple, evocative term, to advance the conversation around media misogyny and get it through people's skulls. But, she has become the conclusion of a sentiment that the more gruesome the death is, the more misogynist that makes it.

but. The fridge was not the misogynistic part of what happened to Alex. THE FACT SHE WAS ONLY INVENTED TO DIE FOR THE PAIN OF A MAN IS. THAT is what the term "fridging" is supposed to point out; The absolute LACK of interest in her as a 3-dimensional character, in women as people, to the point where the writer chose to send Alex out in a gorey, disrespectful way solely as a motivator for her boyfriend. THAT is the bad part.

But instead people have latched onto the fridge half. More violent = more misogyny.

There's a lot of ways for a narrative to be misogynist, though. To downplay the lives, emotions, or contributions of women characters, and to reinforce real-world bigotry.

Warrior Cats does a LOT of this, blaming bad mothers who didn't shut up and accept their 'purpose in life' for Brokenstar's tyranny, making it a TRAGIC thing that Clear Sky is being held accountable for murdering women because his man pain makes it ok, and even blaming Squirrelflight for rejecting Ashfur's advances which caused him to go "crazy" and attempt to murder her children (until, of course, the welcomed retcon of TBC).

Bumble's death, because she is a fat woman, is treated as unavoidable. It's not a terrible thing she died, Gray Wing never really liked her anyway, what REALLY "matters" is that now no one likes her murderer.

She was stupid and selfish to even ask for help, because she is so fat and weak. To be upset at all that her only friend watched her get dragged back to her abuser. Even as she bleeds out, she gets to listen to Turtle Tail making up excuses and wishing she "could have found happiness."

All while Tom the Wifebeater, the fat man who physically assaulted two women, gets a big cutesy redemption death and honored and beloved by everyone and even gets to "lose weight and that's so good :)". Because the books value the lives of men more than the lives of women, plain and simple.

Bumble wasn't just fridged. It's worse than that. Her life doesn't even have enough value to get Clear Sky held accountable for murdering her, because beloved writer favorite Gray Wing hated her for being friends with his wife and doesn't want anyone to hate his poor, innocent big brother :(

Like you said, you can ask anyone in this fandom and they'll tell you about the impressionable kid they were, or have MET, who was badly influenced by the constant misogyny of these books. People who defend Bramblestar tooth and nail as he abuses his wife, the screeds against both Leafpool and Nightcloud for making Crowfeather sad, and the absolutely radioactive Ashfur Defenders who have thankfully died down since TBC's welcome retcons.

It doesn't just end with annoying internet comments. Those kids carry that kind of message with them. It reinforces existing biases and causes them to downplay abused women and toxic men in their real lives.

But sure, "just a cat." Cool way to downplay the 20-year-old bestselling YA fantasy series that is still ongoing but ok. 50000 Bumblesweeps upon ye.

(though i do also have to say, since I started speaking more about it today, I'm seeing more non-wc fans push back against the 'just a cat' comments. Sincerely, thanks guys. It's not every DC fan or Alex voter, just a very vocal section of sore losers willing to downplay misogyny because they're angry.)

[wc-confessions]

God okay, this might be controversial, but I hate when you bring up a ship concept, and somebody comes into the comments or replies just to be like, "They're second cousins, actually :((("

...Near every character in warriors is related in some way, unless they're direct siblings or parent/child, or it's relevent to the plot, can we please just start assuming people changed some things around in the hypothetical? Warriors is one of the few series where we should alwaya take things with a grain of salt, because we all know the Erins didn't actually think through the family tree. (Aka how we got Ashfur being Squirrel's uncle and Graystripe's parents being siblings for a bit there)

Unless it has other problems like a creepy age gap or other major issues that make it clearly bad, can we just let people explore their interesting little ships in peace? Shipping characters who are shown as being family in text is inherently weird and you shouldn't do it, but I think we should start giving a pass to pairings where you literally have to dig into the warriors wiki to figure out they're somehow cousins or one of them is the other's uncle. We're making fanworks, let people adjust canon and have fun from time to time.

.

[redux-iterum]

I'll start over lol, legacy naming can be fine if done well but i don't think it has. Hollytuft + Sibs appeared to us as adults so we don't get to know about them. Cinderheart was cute until we had the whole "shes actually cinderpelt lmao" moment. The two Mouses and Leafs just had no excuse to be there. And if I was Ivypool and my kid died I would NOT want some random cat immediately naming their daughter after her. Isn't that kind of traumatizing? I got rid of all legacy namings that occur -

in cats younger than Holly in my AVOS/TBC allegiances and in my rewriting exercise I'm making Sparkpaw just be really obsessed with being Firestar's kin so her eventual naming of Flamekit makes a bit more sense. At least I can excuse 4 Robinwings to the Erin's forgetting they all existing(not a valid excuse tho imo), having two Frecklewishes is just insane. Was literally nothing else an option? Frecklesong, Freckletuft, Frecklemint? I've also noticed stuff from the beginning like having a semi - prominent Ashfur in Into The Wild's ShadowClan then immediately having Ashkit/(fur) in Fire and Ice's ThunderClan. At the very least, literary-wise, it feels like too much repeating too quickly. I'm not against two Bobs existing at the same time but still…I've actually put down a good fic because they named literally everyone in TC after a dead cat and I got annoyed lol. Names were like, Ferndust Bluestorm Frostheart etc

TV Tropes has a trope relevant to this: One-Steve Limit. While it's very common for people to share names in the real world, in fiction it's avoided to make things easier on your readers/viewers and prevent repetitiveness. The point of not sharing names is for each character to stand out on their own; often when there are multiples of one name (for example, Heather in "Heathers"), there's a reason to it, usually to mock the hivemind-nature of the characters or establish a theme of putting people in boxes they can't escape from (such as in Steven Universe where every gem of one type shares the same name and remains stuck in one role for their entire existence).

In the case of Warriors, I feel that "rule" rings truest. To be entirely fair to the writers, they have hundreds of characters to name, most of them never even showing up in the books beyond being mentioned in the allegiances. A prefix or suffix is going to appear multiple times - that's just unavoidable, especially if you have rules in place for what names are allowed that limits your options. I can't blame them for that issue coming up a few times accidentally.

What I can blame them for is deliberately using names that have important characters attached to them barely a generation later. In a setting where you have to keep track of every name, even as a reader, it's going to cause nothing but trouble if Greystripe dies and in the next book there's a Greykit in the very same Clan. It creates a constant stream of Grey-, which can accidentally confuse readers, or at the very least trip them up for a few seconds - something you DO NOT want in a story, especially one aimed at kids, where things need to be clear and concise.

[the-owl-tree]

I liked “only warmth, only love” and re-read that specific scene every time I’m having a breakdown but I know it’s ass. It was disrespectful to Bristlefrost too, if we’re thinking about it. Not her dying, but the how. It was unnecessary to double down on her wanting to be nothing but a baby making housewife even in her final moments. She didn’t even think of her family who’d been shunning her up until that point and how she’ll never see her mother again. I always found that more sad. That arc just kinda left a bad taste in my mouth because it really felt like they stopped caring about a cool concept

I think it's one of those things that works as it is and I don't think it's the most egregious example of the book's misogyny, it's a big event that has an impact on everyone. A code is added! Other characters are impacted! But I guess it's similar to Silverstream to me where her death has profound consequences on the plot and characters other than Graystripe, but the added context of how other she-cats are treated, the double standard of mothers versus fathers, "the purpose she-cats is to bare children", the expendability of she-cats to the writers, and so on and so on. Ya know? Good on its own, but the series' poor writing decisions and issues bring it down upon further analysis.

It could be argued that it is in line with Bristlefrost's "boy crazy" character to fantasize about kits and that it does thematically work as a symbol of her "defying borders" contrasted to Ashfur enforcing the code. But, you know, the context of it all...it's just kind of an eyeroll moment after they kept reducing her to pining after Rootspring. I really do wish that her final fantasy was her whole family together, both Dovewing and Ivypool and Tree and Violet and so on, no borders to stop them. I think it adds more relevance to her building that bridge her mother and aunt couldn't in their lifetime, and it's just...better? Her imagining surrounded by loved ones (loved ones that we know) while Ashfur is forever alone, clinging onto a love he will never have.

I think it's fine to like the death, totally understand why people adore it, but eh....I guess I'm a little cynical about it lol

[persy-r-bozo]

My friends noticed i draw cats a certain way. and asked me to draw warrior cats in my weird cat style. and i never truly did it.

TILL NOW.

i only read the first arch and half the second and a lot of super editions. ( left after my pookie tallstar died) but i used a randomizer wheel and the wiki and what people in the fandom do.!

I saw folks draw him with different eyes, i like that!. i noticed a lot of lightning visuals and issues with this fella so his patterns are cracks / sparks.

THE guy! THE neighbor fello. I didn't have much ideas for him, i just made his eyes and collar opposites from fire stars. and his mark is indeed a fingerprint smudge.

Stormy fluffy guy. Hair over eyes = Peak. You cant tell but hes smiling like a goofy goober.

MY BOY! Yea hes tall thats about it.

you know when cartoon characters have fire blown in their face or a bomb blown up. and their face is fuzzy and they just blink there. that's just ashfur all the time here. also his tail looks like a fuse, because his is short.

Just a normal holly, But i added some color, the colors are indeed other colors holly berries come in. and gave her her aunties paw.

shes just tired.

i knew about the eye drama and i still think its funny when folks give her rainbow eyes. she has her grandpas body type, fluffy. also you know those cats that just stare at you and never ever blink. yea that's her here.

i love her book, shes so complex, evil get sympathetic. we love girl failures here. gaslight gatekeep girlboss bae. anyways i made her black calico patterns look like black water or oil. yall know why.

and that's it!

[litorestellae]

★ IN THE BEGINNING . . .

a prologue to what started it all.

LITORE STELLAE LORE DROP [01/??]

We are an 18+ Discord role play server based and inspired by Erin Hunter's Warrior Cats opening soon. For more information, please peruse our blog and check out our information page.

⠀⠀⠀“A terrible time is upon us,” the bright orange tabby mews as he sinks his way into the clearing. Starlight glitters his pelt as he shakes some of the dew off his fur. StarClan’s hunting grounds were as beautiful as always, but the tone of his voice forewarned his companions of darker times.

⠀⠀⠀“You’re late, Firestar,” a bulky white tom with huge black paws grunted as he watched Firestar enter, wasting no time to get to the point. The more thin black-and-white cat beside him shook his head, disgruntled by the immediate bickering of the two.

⠀⠀⠀“Hush, Blackstar, let him say what he came to say and let’s get this over with,” the only she-cat of the group piped up, her golden pelt shimmering near the stream of water that cut into the clearing.

⠀⠀⠀“I agree with Leopardstar. Firestar surely gathered us for something important, and we shouldn’t waste time bickering over him being late,” the black-and-white tom affirmed, nodding to his friend.

⠀⠀⠀“Thank you, Tallstar. With that out of the way, let’s discuss what we’ve seen,” Firestar began. “I’m sure it’s no coincidence that us four have been getting visions of a horrible fate, and a huge journey ahead of the Clans. After all, it was us four that originally journeyed to the lake where times have been peaceful ever since. However, now . . .”

⠀⠀⠀“If I may, Firestar, what are you suggesting with this? You don’t think that the Clans must move again, do you?” the former WindClan leader interjected softly, worry clouding his amber gaze. The other leaders murmured in agreement with Tallstar’s anxiety.

⠀⠀⠀“That is what I believe, yes. If the Place of no Stars is truly planning what we have envisioned . . . I don’t think there’s any coming back from what will happen,” green eyes looked down at his paws woefully, before coming to look back up, more determined. “I think we should follow the ways of our ancestors before, who hand picked the right cats to find a new home. These new cats will be StarClan’s Chosen.”

⠀⠀⠀“This is a lot, Firestar. What if we're worrying too much? The Clans have been at peace for many, many moons. We haven’t seen anything happen since the days of Ashfur. Which might I add, was from your Clan,” the voice of ShadowClan’s leader was firm, brow furrowed.

⠀⠀⠀“Oh, hush, Blackstar. We’ve all seen the visions, I’d hope. If you have been paying attention, you’d know the Dark Forest has its paws on all of our Clans with their own chosen warriors.” Leopardstar bit back, eyes closing as if to say she was right — which she was.

⠀⠀⠀“Leopardstar is right . . . I worry about Batfang . . .” Tallstar murmured, suddenly lost in his own thoughts.

⠀⠀⠀“I suggest Duskpaw as my candidate,” Firestar continued onward, ignoring the comments thrown his way. “I leave the choices of your Chosen One up to you, but we must send a sign soon. We don’t have much time to waste.”

⠀⠀⠀“Moonhaze is a fine warrior, she’ll prove useful if she were to partake in this journey,” Blackstar nodded.

⠀⠀⠀“I know Dawnwhistle is close to Batfang, but I can’t help but think she’d be best at quelling the storm with her calm demeanor.” Tallstar offered.

⠀⠀⠀“Sunpaw is to become a full medicine cat by the next half-moon. I shall send him a vision then regarding this matter, along with Willowshine,” Leopardstar mewed, amber eyes scanning the clearing at her companions. “If you have an issue with me picking a medicine cat, you can take it up with the fact one of my warriors passed away on the previous journey to the lake.”

⠀⠀⠀“We weren’t doubting you, Leopardstar. She was by ThunderClan blood too,” Firestar winced at the memory, before shaking his head. “With that decided, the meeting is adjourned. We will send our visions soon, and have our Chosen meet at the island next quarter moon after Sunpaw gets his name.”

[multifandomfern]

top 5 warrior cats characters go

Ravenpaw

He is my favorite! I relate so much to him with not fitting in and being more passive. He's a sweet guy that got put into a horrible situation. While he was powerless in it, he isn't a weakling. It was him vs Tigerclaw who was older, more experienced and a lot stronger. Ravenpaw wasn't winning that one, but that doesn't mean he's useless. He's a great hunter, and he knows how to fight! Him being passive doesn't make him weak, it gives him personality! Even with that situation, he escaped and found himself a new home with Barley! It's nice to see a character find happiness on a different path like he did. I love that for him, and it gives me hope knowing not everyone finds happiness in the same place. He gained a loving husband and a peaceful home from it!

2. Yellowfang

She's a grouchy old lady with a heart of gold. While her character gets ruined in Starclan, the fact she thought Ashfur could enter because he just loved too much could show how bad her relationship with Raggedstar was. Yellowfang went through so much, life really was really unfair to her, but she still did her best. She found a new clan with cats who cared for her and did a good job caring for them.

3. Feathertail

She's so sweet and patient and ohhh my god she wasn't always like that. I LOVE her graphic novel, it's a great exploration of the trauma she went through and how it gave her trust issues. I love how much she grows and changes. It's really inspiring to see especially with how bitter she was. I love seeing someone who we first saw as kind and gentle have such a mistrustful and bitter side. It makes so much sense and makes for an inspiring story. Then it turns into a tragedy considering how little time she had to reconnect with her clan before sacrificing herself. Feathertail's story has so many twists and turns a lot like herself, and I love it!

4. Puddleshine

Ngl I think I like him more for his potential rather than what we actually get from him. I would love to write a novella for him! Puddleshine is a sweetheart who got put in messed up situations. He had to learn to be a medicine cat in I think like one moon, and he wasn't even apprentice age. That's a lot of pressure, but he got through it! Yay! Then he has to heal a new disease, deal with Darktail trauma, join with Skyclan, he's been through so much! He's so strong and stays so nice throughout it all! I love him for it and want to explore his thoughts and feelings.

5. Crowfeather

He has so many issues, and I love him for it. He was angsty apprentice who became a short tempered guy who couldn't figure out how to have or keep good relationships. I loved reading about them in Crowfeather's Trial.

[cozmo-the-mighty-chinchilla]

I know it's become popular to rag on the writing of warrior cats, and while it certainly does have issues, I also feel like we get so caught up in dragging the series that we overlook how GOOD it can be.

(Also to note, I am talking strictly plot points and character concepts here, the series does still suffer from tone-deafness and poor handling of other cultures etc. And that is stuff we shouldn't ignore. )

I just keep thinking back to the Broken Code, and honest to God in all my years of reading this series, not a single book has made me ugly sob the way A Light in the Mist did. And Bristlefrost wasn't even a favorite character of mine, but they STILL managed to make me care so fucking much about her and feel for the other characters who cared about her. And Shadowsight, imo, had such a lovely bittersweet outcome. The way they talk about him not being broken, but rather his trauma being like wounds that needed time to heal. And the way rootspring reaches out to try and find bristlefrost's spirit, only to see her literal dying dreams of the future she had wanted instead.

The whole ending to that arc was so sad and poetic and just so fucking GOOD. and even going back to the first few books of that arc, how they managed to take a series that, while it's delt with serious topics and violence before, has never been a "horror" genre, and managed to make it legitimately creepy. The way they describe the parts leading up to Bramblestar being fully possessed(his body twitching and convulsing, the black shadow hanging over him that only rootspring could see), the ghost cats eyes being completely black at the seance and just SCREAMING when their mouths open, Ashfur's form shifting under Bramblestar's skin, the way the Impostor is only ever referred to as "it" at first, giving it a completely otherworldly feeling that it isn't just another cat but something else entirely. It's all so goddamn COOL!!

I'm mostly talking about Broken Code here bc that's my favorite arc rn and what's on my brain, but this goes for all the arcs. The series definitely suffers from pacing issues and they do have trouble fleshing out their huge cast of characters, but when the series delivers, it really does deliver, and I think we need to appreciate it's good parts more.

Tldr: The series does have faults, but It also has so many good parts and concepts that we should appreciate more. Also Broken Code is GOAT I don't make the rules.

[troutfur]

If you go with the Goldenflower takes her kids to Riverclan I think there's a big chance Bramble will go full dark forest. As he won't have Squirrel to help him or make him choose, also, maybe Storm, Feather, Misty and Reed chose Thunderclan after Tigerclan? As Thunderclan does need a cat for the prophecy in TNP and Feather has to go for the Tribe's prophecy. Also, Firestar could make Misty or even Reedwhisker deputy after Greystripe. Idk, thoughts?

Those are interesting possibilities, but I have to say with how I'm envisioning the horrors of TigerClan I don't see Bramble being very persuaded by Tigerstar's pitch. I see Bramblepaw, Tawnypaw, and Goldenflower getting a rather favorable deal but not at all desirable. I don't know how to describe it other than: Tigerstar wants to force his family into very specific roles within the power structure he is building up and any resistance will be severely punished. And I don't see Bramble forgiving that when experiencing it first-hand.

I want to keep Tawny, Bramble, Storm, and Feather, (and later Hawk and Moth) as a tight-knit familial unit so I don't see myself splitting them across the border. Whether they return together to ThunderClan or stay in RiverClan I'm open to leaving undecided at this stage though. Though I'm leaning towards RiverClan as it would be the Clan all of them would've known as home the longest.

Although it does bring up the issue of ThunderClan and ShadowClan both lacking an available single, childless young adult to go on the quest. My first thought goes to Ashfur for ThunderClan and Rowanclaw for ShadowClan but we can workshop this further.

Regarding Reedwhisker, I am very aggressively anti the single litter interpretation for Mistyfoot. It's so obviously against the text and it's so easy to resolve the apparent contradiction by dividing Misty's kits across two litters that I consider LSH's confirmation of the single litter interpretation a retcon. So I'm not likely to make him a contemporary of Bramble and co.

The thought of Reedwhisker or Mistyfoot as ThunderClan deputy in lieu of Brambleclaw is neat though!

[thornquillthefiendish]

yoyo!!

random question but which wc character do you think has been ruined by the fandom?

Hmm.

There are. A few.

I think one is Spottedleaf, I just never jived with the fandom perception of her though it constantly changed and evolved, it was all still so hyper focused on Firestar and that’s definitely because of the books connecting her existence so heavily to him, but I’ve disliked a lot of the different presentations of her character in fandom. She’s definitely been ruined for me for a large part, definitely just rebuild her in my head ignore most things about her.

Then there’s ashfur. I think this is definitely concerning earlier ashfur but. There is a great amount of discomfort in how much people openly attempted to relieve his character of guilt and at times — how people still do this (though it’s rarer ofc). Most of his character modernly in fandom is based on this old fandom version of ashfur that I don’t think represents the image in my head as clearly, it’s based on this really twisted way we looked at him that definitely was influenced majorly by our adolescence for those of us around during the hype phase, and I don’t think he exists outside of that lens anymore, at least I don’t think there’s any turning back. I’m kinda neutral to how the fandom looks at him today, it doesn’t appeal to me, but I guess it’s not really my business tbh, but in a way he has been forever ruined; mostly by the sincere defense made for him early on that has modernly completely altered him to fit into that phase in the fandom, to the comedic elements of it often. I don’t know if it’s ruined in an actual bad way, of course, and I don’t think it has been, it’s definitely interesting to have experienced the change in his character from gradeschool to now, but it’s definitely been forever altered in our eyes, nobody will ever view ashfur without thinking of melodramatic breakup songs and self pitying emo-esc poetry.

My own emotions on it are a desire for an added intimidation to him, which I’ve actually seen a lot more recently and I enjoy a lot of that, I definitely have ideas on what I want his character to represent in my own rewrite, but I think as someone a little bit more out there in terms of interests in the warriors fandom that of course my views are not shared by everyone, admittedly they’re based on things definitely exiting the scope of genre or even just things people would normally come across. My tastes are definitely a bit odd, especially when it comes to writing and characters and stuff, even in other spaces, not exactly sure if that’s a good sign or a bad sign, but oh well.

There’s likely other characters I can think of that I have/have had issues with fandom consensus; Hawkheart, Nightcloud, bluestar, squirrelflight, Sandstorm, a lot of female characters in general, but that’d devolve into me ranting for too long so, I’d say these two are the ones I think of the most when I think of characters the fandom “ruined” for me (ashfur isn’t even “ruined” modernly so to say he’s just. Transformed completely)

[wc-confessions]

"To be honest? I'm kinda sick of people saying WOF is better than Warriors, when it shares MANY of the problems Warriors has, whether it's racism, the portrayal of abuse, colonialism, ableism and more. I dunno guys, maybe we shouldn't act like EITHER is all that great. Warriors has it's issues, we all know that. But putting WOF on a pedestal and sweeping the issues it shares under the rug ain't it. :/"

Tbf, the reason people say this is because the issues that come from warrior cats vs teh issues that come from wof are for completely different reasons. Issues with WoF's writing stem from trying to comment on big systemic issues without having the right level of expertise to tacle them delicately. Warrior's portrayals of these subject matter comes from biases that the writers and editors have that they dont want to address at all in the first place and those biases bleeding into the writing as a result. Not to mention Warrior's issues are much, MUCH, MUCH more egregious between the EXPLICIT sexism and colonialist messaging. I cannot stress enough that in warriors we get repeated, very clear endorsement of xenophobia, racism and sexism over and over again as CORE values and messages in the stories of the series. Where WoF tries and fails, EX: mixed messages with the whole lost continent arc, nightwings vs icewings thing, and anemone wanting to 'fix' tamarin's blindness being portrayed as a good thing- Warriors doubles down and spits on the fans for having values with stuff like ashfur and frecklewish. Not to mention WoF is made by one person with a concise vision for the story vs warrior cats which is pretty disjointed and has extremely inconsistent charization of its characters - if they have characterization at all. Afterall when people say WoF is better than Warriors they might not even be talking about values they could just be talking about the actual books themselves being more entertaining to read.

[basilverse-archive]

LIST OF IDENTIFIERS AND KINS

Idk just thought I should list them. CW: A lot of venting/personal stories/traumatic topics

MOST ISSUES I DON'T STILL HOLD, THIS IS ALL INFORMATIONAL TO LET YOU GET TO KNOW ME AND MY EXPERIENCES BETTER.

Basil (IRL) - Due to intense trauma and trauma response relations amongst general other things that would point me as being Basil. As the "host" per say, we don't know proper terminology but we have had many friends who were systems so we adopted those terms to have better communication and it works perfectly.

Sorbet Shark Cookie (Morphed from, now more like a fictive. However until full evaluation soon they are known as a Schema Mode.) - Formed from a few nights of sleeping to pirate-like ocean ambiance during a high-stress, traumatic situation that lasted the span of a few months. - Changed to a more adult-like version and eventually abandoned most of the "cookie run kingdom" aspect during a second traumatic situation before getting a therapist. Looks like Sorbet Shark cookie as an adult with scars covering a blacktip shark tail and half of his left side of his face. Clothes seem more modernized and less fantastical. Took on the name " Jack Crawford " after the AU counterpart. Remains dormant although takes a protector role.

Ashfur ( Schema Mode ) - Needed to identify where impulsive urges and unexplained destructive behaviors came from. Searched thoughts and found Ashfur who wanted to be called Sear. Only chose what entity to be once confronted. They have no physical/colored form yet. Looks like a blue and red outline of a shadow/silhouette. Also dormant but takes a persecutor role. Is responsible for intensifying emotions/continuing the cycle of spiraling.

-----------------------------

Kins ! Love a Lot Bear (CareBears Movie 1985) - Had a care bears hyperfixation which now covers my bed. Took 10 tests for personality got love a lot 9 times and tender heart 1 time. I love people I care about so hard I can and will develop sympathy pain. The first time I fell in love the sympathy pain crossed a spiritual level to the point I was able to guess what that partner was doing just by how I felt. I could point to the exact area they were hurting and it be right (Its something really trippy Idk how to explain better)

Zuko (ATLA) - My mother was always busy, my father acted like a tyrant, my brother constantly acts horrible out of spite when he gets in trouble even if its not bc of me, I grew up like Zuko. I thought I had to live up to my father and society's expectations of being neurotypical, couldnt, then tried to change into a better person although extremely difficult. Aang (ATLA) - Constantly only wanted the best, chased childhood-like wonder and nostalgia. Always put the world's weight on my shoulders because nobody else would. Felt it was my responsibility to fix and heal as many people as I could since the world was already broken enough. Overly empathetic, always tried to see the good in everything. Extremely guilt-ridden over small accidents even if they could be fixed. Believes in karma and that suffering is inevitable but unnecessary suffering should be stopped. Kappa (Castle Swimmer) - Same for Aang, but also dealing with only being praised for one or two things. Art and Grades. I was nothing without being a good artist or being book smart, nothing without being gifted. Found solace in others like me who had suffered responsibility at an young age. Especially unnecessary responsibility. Used to disrespect but still hates it to death. People pleasing suicidal idealization; A type of depression that is more dangerous than any other. (You can bring someone out of it, but its exhausting.)

Siren (Castle Swimmer) - Parent issues as stated with Zuko. Although sheltered and protected, still Suicidal. Bad socially, easily flustered. Definitely on the spectrum's. Severe anxiety and has gone through many traumatic incidents. Heavily moved by such but used said incidents to develop strong, trustable relationships. Incredibly Socially awkward. No social skills at all. Has scars but not broken bones. Hurts people by accident and on purpose. Overwhelmed.

Alastor (Hazbin Hotel) (?/THEORIZED VERSION) - I know little about him but it seems like he got consumed by revenge due to being hurt/traumatized too much. His trauma because of it being so horrible and extensive made him a demon as he used it against people to protect himself. Finally in hell, he doesn't care and accepts that this is his life now and theres nothing more to do. Still good at heart, and supports Charlie as he knows he had good intentions. (speculation)

Naruto (Naruto Animated Series English Dub/Not Shippuden) - Always tried to work through trauma to try and do the right thing while inspiring others to follow such path. People hurt me but I just wanted the best and to show just how much potential I have, how much I really wanted the best. I just wanted to live to the fullest and help others grow as well. Heavily appreciate the lore with Gaara as it reminds me of the times I have prevented people from committing suicide. It's special to me.

Cross Sans (Undertale AUS, XTale, Underverse) - Gone through severe trauma and tried to gain back control over a corrupt source. I felt like Cross Sans most when trying to communicate with my father. Of course, It always went wrong and I was left crying and resorted to doing things out of spite myself and then feeling incredibly guilty afterwards. (Normally just petty things like pouring water on his side of the bed tho). Felt powerless to those with more control. Wanted to take matters into my own hands to make sure there wasn't any more tyranny. I no longer appreciate Cross as a Kin however especially since this was during the first time I was groomed.

Bendy/Splotch (Fanon Bendy and The Ink Machine) - a Fluffy Bendy OC I made that I ended up relating to too much. It seemed to embody most of my mental disorder symptoms. Typically a mixture of my ADHD, OCD, AND AUTISM. This bendy could only speak in sound effects and was really hyper. However if upset would resemble how I thought I looked during times id cry while being yelled at. Also would be the part of me that did the previously mentioned petty things. Peppermint Cookie (Cookie Run) - Felt after realizing I was groomed from talking to my therapist. I felt weak and shy but still hopeful and creative. I still had my art to be my coping mechanism and comfort and I still had my friends. Yet I did still feel lonely. It changed drastically later. Also have a soft spot for the ocean and learning.

SpottedLeaf, MoonFlower, NightCloud (Warrior Cats) - Grooming. My first groomer cheated on me. The other times I've been groomed I remember how disgusting each one was by things they've said. I immediately go back to that helpless, scared, and enraged feeling of realizing and letting the reality sit if someone I know or met has any sign of such happening. Especially if they think its not that situation when it for sure is. Often makes me physically sick when I cannot save people but I cannot force them every time. Even if its not grooming, an unhealthy relationship will have the same effect.

Orel (Moral Orel) - I havent seen the full show but understood immediately because I went through the same type of household as Moral Orel. It got better as I grew up physically but mentally worse.

------------------------------------------

Others have been forgotten due to not being in media often or not having an huge effect. List may be a subject to change.

[cleocatrablossy]

Okay okay okay, someone’s definitely already thought of this but… what if in Squirrelflights’ Hope at the trial she brings up that Spottedleaf told Leafpool to follow her heart which lead to her being with Crowfeather for a day and a half, and Yellowfang lying to Squirrelf about being barren to get her to take the three. Like… they were told by those they literally consider gods to do it and now those same gods are punishing them for it. I’d assume Firestar would likely take their side and be horrified. And remember this all happens before TBC, so it could create a rift in StarClan and that’s how the whole Ashfur thing happens? Because everyone just assumes he’s chilling with the other side of the argument. And after that, how much would Leafpool want to stay in StarClan? Like we all know Squirrelflight has to come back but what if Leafpool fucking dips? She could be vital to the plot if she leaves StarClan after a while to be a wandering ghost since Rootspring could end up finding her and she could reveal the divide in StarClan. Maybe Squirrelflight will even start to disdain StarClan? Could lead to bonding moments with MothWing who nowadays gets that StarClan exist sorta but doesn’t revere them or anything. Maybe one day she’s venting about her issues with the trial and StarClan to who she thinks is Bramblestar but it’s the imposter so Ashfur holds it over her head for a while until using it as further reason to kick her out when he does?

I dunno, might draw something with this later

[thunder-the-ranger-wolf]

The Erin's don't know how parents work?

Okay but true parental reaction to Hollyleaf's Revelation ™ at The Gathering would be for Brambleclaw to close his eyes and have his mind go into a soft reboot as he processed, mainly going "I didn't just hear that. I didn't just hear that." Over and over again in the span of a few heartbeats. And then he opens them, hops to his paws, and screeches: "HOLLYLEAF GET DOWN FROM THERE BEFORE YOU HURT YOURSELF!"

and Hollyleaf will be all: "You're not my father, remember? I don't have to listen to you."

And then Squirrelflight will, like, claw the daggone Meeting Tree and drag her daughter down by the scruff and lick her her all over and nudge her because "what in the name of StarClan we're you thinking, going that high?! We barely escaped the fire with our lives and now you want to jump on trees? Are you trying to make me lose half my fur running after you?!"

and Hollyleaf will be confused because "How can you just act like you didn't lie to us?"

"Because we didn't. Leafpool said she found you three in the woods in the snow and asked us to take care of you. If you want to go live in WindClan with Crowfeather, of all cats, then feel free."

"You literally told Ashfur that we weren't your kits."

"Because it was either that or get burned alive! Are you mouse-brained or-?"

"Wait a minute, what happened with Ashfur and the fire?!"

"Not now Brambles, our kids have thistles for brains."

"Yes now! What happened with Ashfur in the fire?! How did he even come up in this talk? I thought you were with me!"

"Holly, Jay, and Lion were stuck in camp so I went back for them but the way out burned up so I found a log and was trying to push it through. Ashfur comes out of nowhere and starts yowling about how I was supposed to live him and nobody saw his pain-."

"What with StarClan?"

"And then he wouldn't move so when he mentioned the kits I said the first thing that popped into my head and prayed that it would work. Apparently someone up there decided we should live."

"And you told me none of this because..."

"I knew you would go looking for Ashfur and you didn't deserve to have his blood on your paws. Besides, someone obviously already dealt with him so can we please go home? I'm tired, Brambles. I didn't want to have to go through this and now literally everyone knows!"

"Ashfur tried to kill you all."

"Yes."

"Ashfur, Cloudtail's brother, my former best friend, tried to kill my mate and kits... over a crush."

"Apparently so."

"I'm going to dig up his body and tear it to pieces, that mangy piece of fox-hearted rat drippings! That soulless waste of space and life and air! That wretched foolish good for nothing miserable rat faced black-hearted clawslice of filth isn't even worth theair you breatheif he would dare attack four of his Clanmates, a mother and her kits at that, over something that happened so many moons ago that the current generation has no knowledge of it!"

"You tell em Brambleclaw!" Someone cheered.

"Ferncloud, I love you. You're one of my best friends and you nursed my kits when Squirrelflight was vulnerable because she couldn't so you will always have a place in my heart. But that brother of yours-."

"Brindleface will never be proud of him. If he gets into StarClan, it will be by the shortest fur on his pelt, and nobody will ever forgive him."

Brambleclaw looked shocked at Ferncloud's declaration, but dipped his head.

"I am honored to have you in my life. Thank you for all you've done."

"Take Squirrelflight and your kits back to camp, Brambleclaw. We'll wrap up the Gathering and fill you in when we get back."

Woah, I wrote a whole story. I'm'na keep it. Maybe AU it.

[angstywildcats]

lol hey, I know this blog comes off as a “for content/art” blog and I generally intend to keep it that way but this evening the warrior brainworms are back in town and I don’t have many places to share my thoughts for this kinda stuff,

this isn’t an official post or trying to push people to get to agree with me (I am not enough of an elegant speaker).  dfnjsdfn read if you want, but don’t feel inclined. I’m not trying to be groundbreaking or anything.  I think it’s just a lil vent about how I feel about how squirrelflight as a character is approached

CW: I discuss a little bit of the abuse, but not in detail

I AM so very glad we are past the early 2010s of Warriors amvs for sure at least. Back then “Ashfur did nothing wrong” was a common thing to say and everyone just went along with it, not knowing better from being young teens lol. But man the sexism still sticks and it sucks that Squirrelflight and what she went through is still debated. At least its going in the right direction?? But whew. It’s best to ignore and just go along my day, but seeing a random commenter or even someone who has Ashfur apologist as a name still bothers me more than I want LOL It’s hard to figure out how to consume a book series which... is pretty badly written and has many many many loose ends and issues, and I don’t really wanna police or judge on how people consume stuff. (As long as you’re not being a Freak. This is not a proship defense post get out) BUT I GUESS sometimes the way Ashfur is still perceived makes me uneasy? Like don’t get me wrong. he sounds like a pretty cool villain when he possessed Bramble, and while I personally don’t feel its true to his character to have?? Done whatever he did in the later books (I have . only read One chapter of ALITM and done no other warriors reading in a WHILE) it sounds kinda cool as a premise ig. And like many situations its easy to twist characters into their fanon, I think it’s just.. a little. Just a little. upsetting to have Ashfur to be seen as Such a Cool Character (tm) or whatever.

I think it really stems from the fact that. Ashfur’s decisions and actions all start from the fact he was the rejected love interest that went too far after Squirrelflight very maturely told him that she wasn’t interested. Just because of this, he assists in a murder, threatens Squirrel’s family and even after death seeks revenge and Succeeds when he targets Squirrelflight again. 

So far I don’t think there’s been any levity or relief from Squirrelflight having to go through grief or sadness and it really sucks at this point. I think the thing drives me insane is that Squirrel’s situation of getting such a backlash over a rejection is. Something that still constantly happens IRL. And Squirrelflight is almost Never acknowledged as a victim. Not by the other characters, and I don’t think the authors really grasped the weight of her situation they wrote her in either. It’s exhausting, really. I think i should really focus my blame the Warriors writing team for not approaching it better, but as someone who mostly hangs around for the fandom, it does feel like it’s sometimes thrown around too lightly :(

This is probably just a nitpick, and I’m not harshly criticising participants, hosts or artists of any kind who create the content, but a lot of AU or just, general projects and videos I see revolving squirrel is often about the miserable events of her life, either twisting them maybe to be Worse as a bad end or just. Highlighting them. 

I don’t blame anybody tho lol, it’s not like the source material has given much else but then again, we’ve had AUs and explorations of other background characters that end with brighter outcomes, so what’s stopping that from happening to Squirrel? It’s sometimes just a bit sad that there isn’t much chance to give anything else JDNFJNDFN

animal media huh. lets authors write dark things in Childrens books. And get away with poorly writing dark and sensitive topics.